{"id":305933,"date":"2020-04-17T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-04-17T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/a-right-view-of-friendship\/"},"modified":"2020-04-17T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-04-17T11:00:04","slug":"a-right-view-of-friendship","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-right-view-of-friendship\/","title":{"rendered":"A Right View of Friendship"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Our culture is experiencing a loneliness epidemic. Author Kelly Needham offers one solution-build thriving friendships. Kelly answers some of your best questions about friendship.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-04-17.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:27","filesize":"26.97M","filesize_raw":"28281334","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2867,2848,2821],"tags":[6872,4389,4388],"podcast_series":[8352],"cwp_profile":[3632],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305933","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-church-involvement","category-cultural-issues","category-reaching-out","tag-building-friendship-with-others","tag-friendship","tag-relationships","podcast_series-friendish","cwp_profile-kelly-needham","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305933\/a-right-view-of-friendship","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305933\/a-right-view-of-friendship","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"AYZyAkTMG0\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-right-view-of-friendship\/\">A Right View of Friendship<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-right-view-of-friendship\/embed\/#?secret=AYZyAkTMG0\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;A Right View of Friendship&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"AYZyAkTMG0\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-04-17.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-04-17.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Some of our friends are life-giving; there are others who are draining. Kelly Needham says we need to know how to respond appropriately to needy friends.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>We tend to do, I think, one of two things with needy friends: we either meet the need because it feels good to be needed\/it makes us feel important; or we see them in the lobby, and we turn the corner, and go the other direction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think there\u2019s a third option for us, and I think that we become a signpost to Christ, the only one who can meet those needs. That may mean difficult conversations, where we have to tell that person, \u201cHey, you are sucking the life out of me.\u201d We have to be honest and risk that moment of contention and conflict, and say, \u201cI can\u2019t be what you want me to be.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, April 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. The Bible talks about the importance of friendships. We all <em>need<\/em> friendships; we need one another. Sometimes those friendships can be draining. We\u2019ll talk about how we deal with that, and other issues related to friendships, today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. It would be an interesting conversation, I think, if you were with a group of people and you said, \u201cTell me about friendships that went bad.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Do you think there would be a lot of those stories?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m guessing everybody could come up with a couple of what they thought were promising friendships, and something went south, and the relationship got broken. Maybe it\u2019s never been healed or it was just never the same again, even though you tried to repair it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s one of the things, I think, that scares a lot of people off from even trying to pursue friendships; because we know, when it goes south, that\u2019s really painful and hard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And we don\u2019t want to experience those wounds again; so we shy away, being afraid that that could happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would say the pain is <em>really<\/em> deep. It\u2019s because God made us to desire and <em>need<\/em> community and friendship; and yet, when it goes bad, it <em>hurts<\/em>. So yes, the natural response would be, \u201cI\u2019m going to avoid that at all costs.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re talking about friendships this week with our friend, Kelly Needham, who\u2019s joining us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Thanks, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Can we call you a friend now?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Yes, please do. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Kelly is a writer; she\u2019s a speaker; she\u2019s a mom; she\u2019s a wife. She lives in South Dallas, and she has written a book on friendships called <em>Friend-ish: Reclaiming Real Friendship in a Culture of Confusion<\/em>\u2014and a culture\u2014we\u2019ve talked about this\u2014a culture of loneliness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wonder\u2014I\u2019m seeing the statistics that talk about how we may be lonelier today than at any point in the last 100 years, even though, as you mentioned earlier, Dave, we\u2019re connected through social media. But there are higher incidences of depression and suicide and things that come up because we know a lot of people; but we\u2019re not well-known, and we don\u2019t have a lot of meaningful friendships.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs you were working on this book, did you see evidence of that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Definitely. Even people, who had friends in their life, still would verbalize a depth of loneliness that I would say is surprising. I think some of it is that people are settling for digital friendships over real ones. Sometimes, it\u2019s that they\u2019re settling for long-distance friendships that they would prefer instead of the ones right in front of them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think some of it is that the expectations of friendship are changing too. People are more disappointed because their expectations are maybe higher than even they should be, so the disappointment is frequent; and they feel isolated and lonely. I think sometimes it\u2019s a cocktail of all of those three things, and other factors.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Friendships that work well are life-giving. Some friendships can be life-draining. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Some relationships can be unhealthy relationships. How can somebody know what to pursue? You want a healthy relationship. How do you know how to put the right boundaries around it, and make sure you\u2019re being the right kind of friend, and make sure that the friendship is growing into the right kind of relationship?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>I think, when we think about how our faith impacts friendship, that\u2019s a big component; because when we\u2019re talking about Christian friendships, part of what we\u2019re discussing is friendships that we have with other people, where the one thing we can say we\u2019re together on\/we\u2019re banking on is that: \u201cOnly knowing Jesus can satisfy my soul,\u201d \u201cOnly being in right relationship with God am I whole\/am I fulfilled\u2014do I have significance and meaning.\u201d When I look at my Christian sisters, we\u2019re going, \u201cYes.\u201d If everything else is different about you, but we share that, then we\u2019re good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I found in interviewing a lot of people is that faith was very theoretical and intellectual, and not always lived out. Friendships were becoming a surrogate god\/a surrogate life source for them, that really only our faith should be. The topic of conversation was Jesus\/was what they\u2019re learning in the Bible; but in a practical, lived-out way, I\u2019m looking to my BFF for everything: they\u2019re my savior from my hardship; when I\u2019m experiencing something hard, I\u2019m not praying; I\u2019m calling them\u2014we might talk about Jesus in that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is a clear boundary for me, as a Christian, that I know\u2014when that starts happening\/when I start looking to a friend for something that only God can give me\u2014I need to back up a second. Sometimes my friends will do that for me and say, \u201cHey, I think you\u2019re expecting me to be something only God can be\u201d; but not every friend will do that. Sometimes, I have to see that and back up. That\u2019s a real boundary that is in place for me\u2014and should be in place for us, as Christians, with every relationship\u2014our spouses included and our kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You\u2019re saying that friendship could become an idol.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong><em>Yes<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019ve found that too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember one group of friends that I had\u2014we decided to make sure that, when something happens and your instinct is to call a friend\u2014and we usually call a friend that will agree with us with whatever has happened\u2014but we were saying, \u201cInstead of calling a friend right away, you can\u2019t call until you go to Jesus first.\u201d It was really an eye-opening experience to see how that is our first reaction\u2014is to go to somebody that will agree with us or commiserate with us instead of going to the Lord, because sometimes He is enough.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that that\u2019s <em>not<\/em> easy to do\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>It\u2019s not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014because we don\u2019t always <em>want<\/em> that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The interesting dynamic here is that sometimes it is the friend who is the person God uses to point you back to truth. We are supposed to be agents of grace in each other\u2019s lives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How can I differentiate between: \u201cI should just deal with this with Jesus,\u201d versus \u201cI should take this to a friend,\u201d\u2014and it\u2019s not co-dependent\u2014\u201cBut I do need this friend to help point me in the right direction\u201d? How do we process through all of that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Right; you do need people; we\u2019ve talked about that. You need one another; and some things you can\u2019t work out fully on your own, because those friends are going to help you see what you can\u2019t see. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think when I start to feel terrified of losing that friend in some way, that\u2019s usually a sign that I\u2019ve staked my hope in one particular person instead of the <em>people<\/em> God places around me. I need people; I need a community, but I don\u2019t need this <em>one<\/em> specific person. That, I think, is an easy way that we can see something\u2019s off. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat may come up in jealousy: if you have a really close friend, and they befriend someone else, and you feel possessive of them\u2014that\u2019s not a good sign\u2014that shouldn\u2019t be happening in us. Or they move\u2014they get a job\/their husband gets a job\u2014and they move across country; and you\u2019re freaking out, thinking, \u201cI\u2019m not going to make it!\u201d It\u2019s like, \u201cWell, something about that particular, <em>specific<\/em> friend has been a little too heightened.\u201d You need people, but you don\u2019t need a specific person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s interesting\u2014I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve heard Tim Keller talk about\u2014I don\u2019t know if he has a concept for it, but he talks about making a person or a thing the ultimate\u2014exactly what you\u2019re saying.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>If you lose a friendship and you think, \u201cMy life\u2019s over,\u201d that means it was the ultimate. It\u2019s not the ultimate. Now, it\u2019s going to be disappointing; it\u2019s bad, but it\u2019s not the end of the world. That\u2019s what you\u2019re talking about, right? It\u2019s this whole idea that the friend becomes god in your life, not Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019s unhealthy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So what do you do about that? How do you step out of that when you realize it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>I think, depending on how far that\u2019s gone, it maybe depends on what it looks like stepping out. But for me\u2014I think we all face this, by the way, in different, varying degrees. When I notice that in me\u2014an intense fear of losing a friend, or some jealousy when one of my friends is hanging out with somebody else, or building a new friendship or about to move away\u2014that\u2019s a sign for me not to pull away from that friendship, but to go talk to God about it\u2014to go process with Him and just repent: \u201cGod, I feel like I need this friend more than You.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, it\u2019s just because we can <em>see<\/em> them, and <em>touch<\/em> them, and they can respond audibly to us; and I don\u2019t want to wait for that to be flourished in my relationship with God sometimes. I need to own that and say, \u201cLord, I\u2019m sorry,\u201d and reconcile with Him where I need that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I\u2019ve found for me, sometimes I need to go to someone else\u2014my husband, sometimes, or a mentor\u2014and say: \u201cI\u2019ve elevated a friend a little too high, and I just need to tell someone else that; and so will you pray for me? Pray that the Lord will give me a right view of this friendship, and help me to not want to just take from that friend, but be generous to them.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of my good friends moved from about five minutes away from me to the north side of Dallas. If you live in the DFW area, north and south side of Dallas, because of traffic, you could be a state away; I mean, it\u2019s not nearby. That was where the Lord was leading them. It was hard, because we had formed a really tight friendship; we were five minutes down the road. As moms, that was gold; and I was losing that. I needed to grieve that; but I also needed to be <em>generous<\/em> to her and send her away, and not demand from her. I knew she was going to need time to make new friendships, and so I had to be willing to sacrifice that for her sake. We\u2019re called to that as Christians, to not just love the Lord with all our heart, but to love one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me ask both of you ladies this question: \u201cDo you have things that happen in your life and you think, \u2018Oh, I need to share this with someone,\u2019 and the first person you think of sharing it with is not your husband, but it\u2019s your good friend?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m asking that in the context of: I would imagine Mary Ann would have those things in her life that her first instinct is, \u201cI\u2019m going to share this with my girlfriends, not with Bob.\u201d Is that <em>okay<\/em>? How do you differentiate between what\u2019s right to share with your friends or what you should share\u2014do you understand the question?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What are your thoughts on that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>I have a really great relationship with my husband, and I\u2019m thankful for that; and I do want to share with him first if I can.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014your whole life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>As much as I can. I think that\u2019s how it should be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve talked to a lot of women, who\u2014there is tension in their marriage\u2014so it\u2019s easier to share with a friend. I\u2019ve seen a few friendships become really devastating to a marriage because that friend was becoming that intimacy that wife was missing with her husband; but there was so much <em>pain<\/em> in their history that she had current needs, but couldn\u2019t voice them, because of past hurts that were unresolved. What she needed from that other friend was to say: \u201cI can\u2019t be this for you. I\u2019m going to push you back toward your marriage.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve seen it go both ways. I\u2019ve seen friends, who are willing to do that and say: \u201cI\u2019m not okay with being this type of friend for you. I\u2019m going to push you toward your husband\u201d; but I\u2019ve also seen someone step in and fill that role, and it was not good; it was unhealthy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are things that I find that I need to share with another woman, and I\u2019ll tell my husband about it: \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to process this with So-and-so. I just think her insight, as a female, is what I need.\u201d I think it\u2019s okay that we have women\u2014and for men, too, to share with other men\u2014stuff that they need to process, maybe, outside of the marriage; but let it be known in the marriage. That\u2019s okay; but as soon as that friendship is becoming the intimacy you desire more than the intimacy you desire in your marriage, it\u2019s not a good sign.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the counterfeits in my book that I tried to identify and put some language around is marriage-mimicking friendships. I think we\u2019re seeing friendships pop up that mimic the covenant of marriage; they\u2019re not healthy. That\u2019s not how God intended friendships to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>What do you mean by that? What does it look like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>When you have two friends\u2014it\u2019s usually; you know, the same way\u2014what is a marriage?\u2014a marriage is two people becoming one unit. When you see two friends becoming one unit\u2014that: \u201cWe have something exclusive that no one else is allowed into,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s <em>not<\/em> good. A friendship is always willing to welcome another friend; but as soon as you become exclusive\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t want someone else in this. I\u2019m going to create things that <em>only<\/em> we share. We\u2019re going to operate like a unit,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s not okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You start to get jealous when you see your friend laughing over in the corner, talking to somebody else, and you go, \u201cWait; they\u2019re experiencing something that I thought was between us.\u201d That\u2019s a level of jealousy that ought to be a red flag to you: \u201cSomething unhealthy is going on here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>I agree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Kelly, what about friends of the opposite sex?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>I think what\u2019s hard is\u2014I walk with a lot of single women. I do think there is a level of difference that they have than I have as a married woman. A lot of what I encourage my young women toward is\u2014when someone is married, you interact with that person in the mindset that they\u2019re one flesh. So when I see one of the pastors at our church, that I would say I\u2019m glad to see\u2014when I interact with him, I\u2019m also interacting with his wife\u2014that frames the tone in which I interact with him, and when and when I won\u2019t interact with him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor single men and women, though, who are in their 20s, there is a level of friendship that I think is okay for them to have. In some ways, that\u2019s how those relationships are forming; but they\u2019re not yet married, so there are some boundaries that have to exist in there. There\u2019s a different way they interact with a married man versus a single man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor women, I have to remind them, your closest confidants need to be women; they do not need to be men\u2014and vice versa. It\u2019s okay to have a level of comradery with your brothers; we\u2019re called to do this life together as brothers and sisters in Christ. We should be praying for one another in a way that is not segregated; but those people that are there, when you\u2019re on the floor in tears, should not be a brother.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m wondering about relationships that feel draining\u2014relationships where the other person seems to not be contributing\u2014but just is sucking the life out of you. What do you do with those? You care about this person; you want to help this person, but there can be some people who are just a bottomless well of neediness; they\u2019re wanting time with <em>you<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Yes, we tend to do, I think, one of two things with needy friends: we either meet the need\u2014because it feels good to be needed; and it feels good to be somebody\u2019s savior; and it makes us feel important\u2014or we run away\u2014far, far away. [Laughter] We see them in the lobby, and we turn the corner, and go the other direction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think there\u2019s a third option for us. I think that we become a signpost to Christ, the only one who can meet those needs. That may mean difficult conversations, where we have to tell that person, \u201cHey, you are sucking the life out of me.\u201d We have to be honest and risk that moment of contention and conflict and say: \u201cI can\u2019t be what you want me to be. I would like to be friends, because I value you as a person; but this is draining, and it makes me not want to see you; and it makes me not want to be around you; and I would like that to change. This is what I can offer\u2026\u201d You have to leave the ball in their court. They may get mad, and talk bad about you behind your back; and you can\u2019t control that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr you can say: \u201cHey, the things that you\u2019re seeing in me that you want and that you\u2019re drawn to in me, it\u2019s because of Christ in me. He\u2019s accessible to <em>you<\/em>. You need to go directly to Him yourself. I want to be a part of that for you, and cheer you on in that, and pray for you; but I can\u2019t be your go-between with Christ.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think all of those moments are things that we can do to be signposts to point to the Fountain of Living Waters; I think that\u2019s some of our job as Christians. The Fount of Living Waters satisfies; we\u2019re all prone to wander away from it. In our friendships, we need to come alongside, arm in arm, and go, \u201cCome back with me to the Fountain of Living Waters.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, people want to camp outside of that Fountain and find it in each other; and that\u2019s where I think needy people fall into place. They\u2019re looking at us to be that fountain; and we go: \u201cIt\u2019s not me; it\u2019s Christ. Come with me.\u201d We don\u2019t avoid; we don\u2019t meet the need; we point them to Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Is there any way, as we want that for each other\u2014we want that for our husbands\/for our wives\u2014I\u2019ve talked to so many wives that have said, \u201cMy husband has no one.\u201d Is there anything we should do as wives? I\u2019m talking to all of you here, because we see the loneliness in our husband\u2014and we want that for them\u2014we want fellowship for them. Is there any way we can help that? Should we say <em>nothing<\/em>? Should we say, \u201cHey, maybe you could\u2026\u201d\u2014you know, do we introduce them to people? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat do you guys think? Would that be a total turnoff for you guys?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> question for Bob Lepine. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No, I\u2019m not taking that one! We\u2019re throwing that to Kelly; that\u2019s what we bring in the expert for! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014somebody that wrote a book on friendship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Yes, you know, there\u2019s a way to approach our husbands, I think, that is honorable to them\u2014and not like a finger pointing: \u201cYou don\u2019t have friends!\u201d\u2014but, you know, like: \u201cI want that for you. Is there anything <em>I<\/em> can do to help facilitate that?\u201d or \u201cIs there anything I\u2019m doing that\u2019s <em>not<\/em> facilitating that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, I\u2019ve found that my\u2014either desire to process and talk with Jimmy actually drains him\u2014and he doesn\u2019t have the energy to want to hang out with other guys; or I\u2019ve filled our schedule too full with all sorts of things, and he\u2019s tired from working a full job, being in ministry, parenting our kids. Those are things I\u2019ve had to learn\u2014to create space for him to have the energy and the time to go out with friends\u2014and then to not make him feel bad for doing that when I\u2019m left with cleaning up the dinner dishes and putting the kids to bed by myself because he\u2019s going out to see a movie with a guys. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI need to remember that\u2019s good for him. It\u2019s good in theory, again; but sometimes in the reality, we go: \u201cWait a minute! I have more work now than you do!\u201d But we\u2019re called to sacrifice for one another.<br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have, at least, for our marriage, I\u2019ve had to ask him, \u201cWhat do I do that\u2019s not helping this, and what can I do to foster that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s what you\u2019ve [Ann] done. I mean, that\u2019s a great answer, Kelly; because I think Ann has done that for me\u2014has taken away the guilt factor\u2014like: \u201cI want you to go out with the guys. I encourage you to play golf every day of the week, four or five hours a day.\u201d [Laughter] That\u2019s not true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No, obviously not true; but when the kids were little, there was a <em>real<\/em> tension. I <em>never<\/em> thought it was a rightful thing to do to be away from her and the boys with other guys: \u201cI should be doing something more purposeful.\u201d But that\u2019s purposeful, and it\u2019s not every day; but there\u2019s a rhythm that she encouraged.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember she said this: \u201cYou\u2019re really a good friend to guys.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cReally?\u201d That encouraged me, because real easy\u2014you say it in your book\u2014it\u2019s real easy to say, \u201cWhere are my friends?\u201d rather than \u201cWhat kind of a friend am <em>I<\/em>?\u201d Why don\u2019t we look in the mirror and say, \u201cWhat kind of a friend am I?\u201d If I\u2019m good, I\u2019m not going to have a problem finding friends; because they\u2019re going to want to come to me because I\u2019m a good friend.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think it was impactful for me when I read Emerson Eggerich\u2019s book, <em>Love and Respect<\/em>; because in it, he talks about how men bond through shoulder-to-shoulder friendships or relationships; and women bond through communication. I think I was judging Dave, like, \u201cWhat\u2019d you guys talk about when you were together with your friends?\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cWe were just playing basketball.\u201d I think I realized, \u201cOh, so men bond, a lot of times, through doing something together.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was judging the fact that they went deep or didn\u2019t go deep; whereas, you guys\u2014really, you would go deep\u2014but a lot of times it was just doing something together. So even encouraging our husbands to do a sport, to do an activity, to do something with another guy, could be encouraging a friendship, rather than always saying: \u201cWell, what\u2019s going on? How deep did you go?\u201d and judging that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>I think we have to take the pressure off. We tend to do that as wives: \u201cHow\u2019d it go? Tell me all about it!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>It\u2019s like they\u2019re not going to want to come home\/he\u2019s not going to want to come home and tell me about his time if I\u2019m going to nitpick it to death and figure out how meaningful it really was, and who shared what, and \u201cIs your soul refreshed now?\u201d [Laughter] I need to just encourage you to go out and make those suggestions, you know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right; well, I remember Dave coming home from golf, saying, \u201cOh my goodness, you guys were together for <em>hours<\/em>. How\u2019s John doing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019m like, \u201cHe got a new driver.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I\u2019ll close with this, because one of the things we did with our guys\u2014again, this has been decades together\u2014is we would read books together. And \u201cHere\u2019s a book to read,\u201d\u2014I\u2019m not kidding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And we\u2019ve done the same [with women friends].\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Men can read this book and say, \u201cLet\u2019s talk about it.\u201d We\u2019re doing a task, so it\u2019s sort of shoulder to shoulder; but then, every once in awhile, we\u2019ll turn to each other and go, \u201cWhat\u2019d you learn?\u201d And we have a great book for you!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We do! It\u2019s the book Kelly\u2019s written called <em>Friend-ish<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tKelly, thanks for being on <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>and for talking about all of this with us. This has been really helpful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Well, thank you so much, guys, for having me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let\u2019s hope that <em>a lot<\/em> of listeners will take the plunge and read the book with a highlighter\u2014maybe with some friends\u2014and maybe we can see some of the loneliness, that many people are experiencing in our culture today, maybe some of that can evaporate as people learn how to be better friends with one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, for more information about Kelly\u2019s book, <em>Friend-ish<\/em>. You can order it from us online. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order. Our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. So again, the book is called <em>Friend-ish<\/em>. Order online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call to order at 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, all of us have had to think differently about friendships in these days because of the coronavirus and trying to maintain those friendships and relationships using screens and texts and phones and social media but staying connected to one another because that really is important. How we think and how we live out our lives in this moment is critical. This is a strategic moment for us as followers of Christ. To be able to declare the goodness of God when people are afraid and they are wondering and have questions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re so grateful that our friend, Dr. John Piper, has written a book that addresses this subject. The book is called <em>Coronavirus and Christ<\/em>. The print addition of the book is supposed to be out in a week or two but we have the audio book and the e-book available now and it\u2019s available from us for a free download. All you have to do is go to FamilyLife Today.com and you can download either the e-book or the audio book of John Piper\u2019s new <em>Coronavirus and Christ<\/em> book. We want to thank the folks at Desiring God for making this possible. If you missed our conversation with John Piper earlier this week that\u2019s available as a podcast online at FamilyLife Today.com as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur team is working regularly to put out new resources to help your family know how to make the most of these days. Activities you can do together and ways you can keep your sanity in the midst of this social distancing. So, look for that when you go to our website as well. That\u2019s FamilyLife Today.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd thanks to those of you who support this ministry and make all this work possible. We are grateful for you and we\u2019re praying for you in the midst of this time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend! Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend. And hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk about the importance of commitment in marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Have a great weekend. We\u2019ll see you Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:29:27"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["26.97M"],"filesize_raw":["28281334"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305933.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305933.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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culture is experiencing a loneliness epidemic. Author Kelly Needham offers one solution-build thriving friendships. Kelly answers some of your best questions about friendship.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-04-17.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Some of our friends are life-giving; there are others who are draining. Kelly Needham says we need to know how to respond appropriately to needy friends.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>We tend to do, I think, one of two things with needy friends: we either meet the need because it feels good to be needed\/it makes us feel important; or we see them in the lobby, and we turn the corner, and go the other direction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think there\u2019s a third option for us, and I think that we become a signpost to Christ, the only one who can meet those needs. That may mean difficult conversations, where we have to tell that person, \u201cHey, you are sucking the life out of me.\u201d We have to be honest and risk that moment of contention and conflict, and say, \u201cI can\u2019t be what you want me to be.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, April 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. The Bible talks about the importance of friendships. We all <em>need<\/em> friendships; we need one another. Sometimes those friendships can be draining. We\u2019ll talk about how we deal with that, and other issues related to friendships, today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. It would be an interesting conversation, I think, if you were with a group of people and you said, \u201cTell me about friendships that went bad.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Do you think there would be a lot of those stories?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m guessing everybody could come up with a couple of what they thought were promising friendships, and something went south, and the relationship got broken. Maybe it\u2019s never been healed or it was just never the same again, even though you tried to repair it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s one of the things, I think, that scares a lot of people off from even trying to pursue friendships; because we know, when it goes south, that\u2019s really painful and hard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And we don\u2019t want to experience those wounds again; so we shy away, being afraid that that could happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would say the pain is <em>really<\/em> deep. It\u2019s because God made us to desire and <em>need<\/em> community and friendship; and yet, when it goes bad, it <em>hurts<\/em>. So yes, the natural response would be, \u201cI\u2019m going to avoid that at all costs.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re talking about friendships this week with our friend, Kelly Needham, who\u2019s joining us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Thanks, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Can we call you a friend now?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Yes, please do. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Kelly is a writer; she\u2019s a speaker; she\u2019s a mom; she\u2019s a wife. She lives in South Dallas, and she has written a book on friendships called <em>Friend-ish: Reclaiming Real Friendship in a Culture of Confusion<\/em>\u2014and a culture\u2014we\u2019ve talked about this\u2014a culture of loneliness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wonder\u2014I\u2019m seeing the statistics that talk about how we may be lonelier today than at any point in the last 100 years, even though, as you mentioned earlier, Dave, we\u2019re connected through social media. But there are higher incidences of depression and suicide and things that come up because we know a lot of people; but we\u2019re not well-known, and we don\u2019t have a lot of meaningful friendships.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs you were working on this book, did you see evidence of that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Definitely. Even people, who had friends in their life, still would verbalize a depth of loneliness that I would say is surprising. I think some of it is that people are settling for digital friendships over real ones. Sometimes, it\u2019s that they\u2019re settling for long-distance friendships that they would prefer instead of the ones right in front of them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think some of it is that the expectations of friendship are changing too. People are more disappointed because their expectations are maybe higher than even they should be, so the disappointment is frequent; and they feel isolated and lonely. I think sometimes it\u2019s a cocktail of all of those three things, and other factors.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Friendships that work well are life-giving. Some friendships can be life-draining. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Some relationships can be unhealthy relationships. How can somebody know what to pursue? You want a healthy relationship. How do you know how to put the right boundaries around it, and make sure you\u2019re being the right kind of friend, and make sure that the friendship is growing into the right kind of relationship?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>I think, when we think about how our faith impacts friendship, that\u2019s a big component; because when we\u2019re talking about Christian friendships, part of what we\u2019re discussing is friendships that we have with other people, where the one thing we can say we\u2019re together on\/we\u2019re banking on is that: \u201cOnly knowing Jesus can satisfy my soul,\u201d \u201cOnly being in right relationship with God am I whole\/am I fulfilled\u2014do I have significance and meaning.\u201d When I look at my Christian sisters, we\u2019re going, \u201cYes.\u201d If everything else is different about you, but we share that, then we\u2019re good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I found in interviewing a lot of people is that faith was very theoretical and intellectual, and not always lived out. Friendships were becoming a surrogate god\/a surrogate life source for them, that really only our faith should be. The topic of conversation was Jesus\/was what they\u2019re learning in the Bible; but in a practical, lived-out way, I\u2019m looking to my BFF for everything: they\u2019re my savior from my hardship; when I\u2019m experiencing something hard, I\u2019m not praying; I\u2019m calling them\u2014we might talk about Jesus in that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is a clear boundary for me, as a Christian, that I know\u2014when that starts happening\/when I start looking to a friend for something that only God can give me\u2014I need to back up a second. Sometimes my friends will do that for me and say, \u201cHey, I think you\u2019re expecting me to be something only God can be\u201d; but not every friend will do that. Sometimes, I have to see that and back up. That\u2019s a real boundary that is in place for me\u2014and should be in place for us, as Christians, with every relationship\u2014our spouses included and our kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You\u2019re saying that friendship could become an idol.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong><em>Yes<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019ve found that too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember one group of friends that I had\u2014we decided to make sure that, when something happens and your instinct is to call a friend\u2014and we usually call a friend that will agree with us with whatever has happened\u2014but we were saying, \u201cInstead of calling a friend right away, you can\u2019t call until you go to Jesus first.\u201d It was really an eye-opening experience to see how that is our first reaction\u2014is to go to somebody that will agree with us or commiserate with us instead of going to the Lord, because sometimes He is enough.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that that\u2019s <em>not<\/em> easy to do\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>It\u2019s not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014because we don\u2019t always <em>want<\/em> that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The interesting dynamic here is that sometimes it is the friend who is the person God uses to point you back to truth. We are supposed to be agents of grace in each other\u2019s lives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How can I differentiate between: \u201cI should just deal with this with Jesus,\u201d versus \u201cI should take this to a friend,\u201d\u2014and it\u2019s not co-dependent\u2014\u201cBut I do need this friend to help point me in the right direction\u201d? How do we process through all of that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Right; you do need people; we\u2019ve talked about that. You need one another; and some things you can\u2019t work out fully on your own, because those friends are going to help you see what you can\u2019t see. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think when I start to feel terrified of losing that friend in some way, that\u2019s usually a sign that I\u2019ve staked my hope in one particular person instead of the <em>people<\/em> God places around me. I need people; I need a community, but I don\u2019t need this <em>one<\/em> specific person. That, I think, is an easy way that we can see something\u2019s off. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat may come up in jealousy: if you have a really close friend, and they befriend someone else, and you feel possessive of them\u2014that\u2019s not a good sign\u2014that shouldn\u2019t be happening in us. Or they move\u2014they get a job\/their husband gets a job\u2014and they move across country; and you\u2019re freaking out, thinking, \u201cI\u2019m not going to make it!\u201d It\u2019s like, \u201cWell, something about that particular, <em>specific<\/em> friend has been a little too heightened.\u201d You need people, but you don\u2019t need a specific person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s interesting\u2014I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve heard Tim Keller talk about\u2014I don\u2019t know if he has a concept for it, but he talks about making a person or a thing the ultimate\u2014exactly what you\u2019re saying.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>If you lose a friendship and you think, \u201cMy life\u2019s over,\u201d that means it was the ultimate. It\u2019s not the ultimate. Now, it\u2019s going to be disappointing; it\u2019s bad, but it\u2019s not the end of the world. That\u2019s what you\u2019re talking about, right? It\u2019s this whole idea that the friend becomes god in your life, not Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019s unhealthy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So what do you do about that? How do you step out of that when you realize it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>I think, depending on how far that\u2019s gone, it maybe depends on what it looks like stepping out. But for me\u2014I think we all face this, by the way, in different, varying degrees. When I notice that in me\u2014an intense fear of losing a friend, or some jealousy when one of my friends is hanging out with somebody else, or building a new friendship or about to move away\u2014that\u2019s a sign for me not to pull away from that friendship, but to go talk to God about it\u2014to go process with Him and just repent: \u201cGod, I feel like I need this friend more than You.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, it\u2019s just because we can <em>see<\/em> them, and <em>touch<\/em> them, and they can respond audibly to us; and I don\u2019t want to wait for that to be flourished in my relationship with God sometimes. I need to own that and say, \u201cLord, I\u2019m sorry,\u201d and reconcile with Him where I need that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I\u2019ve found for me, sometimes I need to go to someone else\u2014my husband, sometimes, or a mentor\u2014and say: \u201cI\u2019ve elevated a friend a little too high, and I just need to tell someone else that; and so will you pray for me? Pray that the Lord will give me a right view of this friendship, and help me to not want to just take from that friend, but be generous to them.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of my good friends moved from about five minutes away from me to the north side of Dallas. If you live in the DFW area, north and south side of Dallas, because of traffic, you could be a state away; I mean, it\u2019s not nearby. That was where the Lord was leading them. It was hard, because we had formed a really tight friendship; we were five minutes down the road. As moms, that was gold; and I was losing that. I needed to grieve that; but I also needed to be <em>generous<\/em> to her and send her away, and not demand from her. I knew she was going to need time to make new friendships, and so I had to be willing to sacrifice that for her sake. We\u2019re called to that as Christians, to not just love the Lord with all our heart, but to love one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me ask both of you ladies this question: \u201cDo you have things that happen in your life and you think, \u2018Oh, I need to share this with someone,\u2019 and the first person you think of sharing it with is not your husband, but it\u2019s your good friend?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m asking that in the context of: I would imagine Mary Ann would have those things in her life that her first instinct is, \u201cI\u2019m going to share this with my girlfriends, not with Bob.\u201d Is that <em>okay<\/em>? How do you differentiate between what\u2019s right to share with your friends or what you should share\u2014do you understand the question?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What are your thoughts on that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>I have a really great relationship with my husband, and I\u2019m thankful for that; and I do want to share with him first if I can.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014your whole life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>As much as I can. I think that\u2019s how it should be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve talked to a lot of women, who\u2014there is tension in their marriage\u2014so it\u2019s easier to share with a friend. I\u2019ve seen a few friendships become really devastating to a marriage because that friend was becoming that intimacy that wife was missing with her husband; but there was so much <em>pain<\/em> in their history that she had current needs, but couldn\u2019t voice them, because of past hurts that were unresolved. What she needed from that other friend was to say: \u201cI can\u2019t be this for you. I\u2019m going to push you back toward your marriage.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve seen it go both ways. I\u2019ve seen friends, who are willing to do that and say: \u201cI\u2019m not okay with being this type of friend for you. I\u2019m going to push you toward your husband\u201d; but I\u2019ve also seen someone step in and fill that role, and it was not good; it was unhealthy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are things that I find that I need to share with another woman, and I\u2019ll tell my husband about it: \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to process this with So-and-so. I just think her insight, as a female, is what I need.\u201d I think it\u2019s okay that we have women\u2014and for men, too, to share with other men\u2014stuff that they need to process, maybe, outside of the marriage; but let it be known in the marriage. That\u2019s okay; but as soon as that friendship is becoming the intimacy you desire more than the intimacy you desire in your marriage, it\u2019s not a good sign.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the counterfeits in my book that I tried to identify and put some language around is marriage-mimicking friendships. I think we\u2019re seeing friendships pop up that mimic the covenant of marriage; they\u2019re not healthy. That\u2019s not how God intended friendships to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>What do you mean by that? What does it look like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>When you have two friends\u2014it\u2019s usually; you know, the same way\u2014what is a marriage?\u2014a marriage is two people becoming one unit. When you see two friends becoming one unit\u2014that: \u201cWe have something exclusive that no one else is allowed into,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s <em>not<\/em> good. A friendship is always willing to welcome another friend; but as soon as you become exclusive\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t want someone else in this. I\u2019m going to create things that <em>only<\/em> we share. We\u2019re going to operate like a unit,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s not okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You start to get jealous when you see your friend laughing over in the corner, talking to somebody else, and you go, \u201cWait; they\u2019re experiencing something that I thought was between us.\u201d That\u2019s a level of jealousy that ought to be a red flag to you: \u201cSomething unhealthy is going on here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>I agree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Kelly, what about friends of the opposite sex?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>I think what\u2019s hard is\u2014I walk with a lot of single women. I do think there is a level of difference that they have than I have as a married woman. A lot of what I encourage my young women toward is\u2014when someone is married, you interact with that person in the mindset that they\u2019re one flesh. So when I see one of the pastors at our church, that I would say I\u2019m glad to see\u2014when I interact with him, I\u2019m also interacting with his wife\u2014that frames the tone in which I interact with him, and when and when I won\u2019t interact with him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor single men and women, though, who are in their 20s, there is a level of friendship that I think is okay for them to have. In some ways, that\u2019s how those relationships are forming; but they\u2019re not yet married, so there are some boundaries that have to exist in there. There\u2019s a different way they interact with a married man versus a single man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor women, I have to remind them, your closest confidants need to be women; they do not need to be men\u2014and vice versa. It\u2019s okay to have a level of comradery with your brothers; we\u2019re called to do this life together as brothers and sisters in Christ. We should be praying for one another in a way that is not segregated; but those people that are there, when you\u2019re on the floor in tears, should not be a brother.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m wondering about relationships that feel draining\u2014relationships where the other person seems to not be contributing\u2014but just is sucking the life out of you. What do you do with those? You care about this person; you want to help this person, but there can be some people who are just a bottomless well of neediness; they\u2019re wanting time with <em>you<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Yes, we tend to do, I think, one of two things with needy friends: we either meet the need\u2014because it feels good to be needed; and it feels good to be somebody\u2019s savior; and it makes us feel important\u2014or we run away\u2014far, far away. [Laughter] We see them in the lobby, and we turn the corner, and go the other direction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think there\u2019s a third option for us. I think that we become a signpost to Christ, the only one who can meet those needs. That may mean difficult conversations, where we have to tell that person, \u201cHey, you are sucking the life out of me.\u201d We have to be honest and risk that moment of contention and conflict and say: \u201cI can\u2019t be what you want me to be. I would like to be friends, because I value you as a person; but this is draining, and it makes me not want to see you; and it makes me not want to be around you; and I would like that to change. This is what I can offer\u2026\u201d You have to leave the ball in their court. They may get mad, and talk bad about you behind your back; and you can\u2019t control that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr you can say: \u201cHey, the things that you\u2019re seeing in me that you want and that you\u2019re drawn to in me, it\u2019s because of Christ in me. He\u2019s accessible to <em>you<\/em>. You need to go directly to Him yourself. I want to be a part of that for you, and cheer you on in that, and pray for you; but I can\u2019t be your go-between with Christ.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think all of those moments are things that we can do to be signposts to point to the Fountain of Living Waters; I think that\u2019s some of our job as Christians. The Fount of Living Waters satisfies; we\u2019re all prone to wander away from it. In our friendships, we need to come alongside, arm in arm, and go, \u201cCome back with me to the Fountain of Living Waters.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, people want to camp outside of that Fountain and find it in each other; and that\u2019s where I think needy people fall into place. They\u2019re looking at us to be that fountain; and we go: \u201cIt\u2019s not me; it\u2019s Christ. Come with me.\u201d We don\u2019t avoid; we don\u2019t meet the need; we point them to Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Is there any way, as we want that for each other\u2014we want that for our husbands\/for our wives\u2014I\u2019ve talked to so many wives that have said, \u201cMy husband has no one.\u201d Is there anything we should do as wives? I\u2019m talking to all of you here, because we see the loneliness in our husband\u2014and we want that for them\u2014we want fellowship for them. Is there any way we can help that? Should we say <em>nothing<\/em>? Should we say, \u201cHey, maybe you could\u2026\u201d\u2014you know, do we introduce them to people? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat do you guys think? Would that be a total turnoff for you guys?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> question for Bob Lepine. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No, I\u2019m not taking that one! We\u2019re throwing that to Kelly; that\u2019s what we bring in the expert for! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014somebody that wrote a book on friendship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Yes, you know, there\u2019s a way to approach our husbands, I think, that is honorable to them\u2014and not like a finger pointing: \u201cYou don\u2019t have friends!\u201d\u2014but, you know, like: \u201cI want that for you. Is there anything <em>I<\/em> can do to help facilitate that?\u201d or \u201cIs there anything I\u2019m doing that\u2019s <em>not<\/em> facilitating that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, I\u2019ve found that my\u2014either desire to process and talk with Jimmy actually drains him\u2014and he doesn\u2019t have the energy to want to hang out with other guys; or I\u2019ve filled our schedule too full with all sorts of things, and he\u2019s tired from working a full job, being in ministry, parenting our kids. Those are things I\u2019ve had to learn\u2014to create space for him to have the energy and the time to go out with friends\u2014and then to not make him feel bad for doing that when I\u2019m left with cleaning up the dinner dishes and putting the kids to bed by myself because he\u2019s going out to see a movie with a guys. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI need to remember that\u2019s good for him. It\u2019s good in theory, again; but sometimes in the reality, we go: \u201cWait a minute! I have more work now than you do!\u201d But we\u2019re called to sacrifice for one another.<br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have, at least, for our marriage, I\u2019ve had to ask him, \u201cWhat do I do that\u2019s not helping this, and what can I do to foster that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s what you\u2019ve [Ann] done. I mean, that\u2019s a great answer, Kelly; because I think Ann has done that for me\u2014has taken away the guilt factor\u2014like: \u201cI want you to go out with the guys. I encourage you to play golf every day of the week, four or five hours a day.\u201d [Laughter] That\u2019s not true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No, obviously not true; but when the kids were little, there was a <em>real<\/em> tension. I <em>never<\/em> thought it was a rightful thing to do to be away from her and the boys with other guys: \u201cI should be doing something more purposeful.\u201d But that\u2019s purposeful, and it\u2019s not every day; but there\u2019s a rhythm that she encouraged.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember she said this: \u201cYou\u2019re really a good friend to guys.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cReally?\u201d That encouraged me, because real easy\u2014you say it in your book\u2014it\u2019s real easy to say, \u201cWhere are my friends?\u201d rather than \u201cWhat kind of a friend am <em>I<\/em>?\u201d Why don\u2019t we look in the mirror and say, \u201cWhat kind of a friend am I?\u201d If I\u2019m good, I\u2019m not going to have a problem finding friends; because they\u2019re going to want to come to me because I\u2019m a good friend.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think it was impactful for me when I read Emerson Eggerich\u2019s book, <em>Love and Respect<\/em>; because in it, he talks about how men bond through shoulder-to-shoulder friendships or relationships; and women bond through communication. I think I was judging Dave, like, \u201cWhat\u2019d you guys talk about when you were together with your friends?\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cWe were just playing basketball.\u201d I think I realized, \u201cOh, so men bond, a lot of times, through doing something together.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was judging the fact that they went deep or didn\u2019t go deep; whereas, you guys\u2014really, you would go deep\u2014but a lot of times it was just doing something together. So even encouraging our husbands to do a sport, to do an activity, to do something with another guy, could be encouraging a friendship, rather than always saying: \u201cWell, what\u2019s going on? How deep did you go?\u201d and judging that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>I think we have to take the pressure off. We tend to do that as wives: \u201cHow\u2019d it go? Tell me all about it!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>It\u2019s like they\u2019re not going to want to come home\/he\u2019s not going to want to come home and tell me about his time if I\u2019m going to nitpick it to death and figure out how meaningful it really was, and who shared what, and \u201cIs your soul refreshed now?\u201d [Laughter] I need to just encourage you to go out and make those suggestions, you know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right; well, I remember Dave coming home from golf, saying, \u201cOh my goodness, you guys were together for <em>hours<\/em>. How\u2019s John doing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019m like, \u201cHe got a new driver.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I\u2019ll close with this, because one of the things we did with our guys\u2014again, this has been decades together\u2014is we would read books together. And \u201cHere\u2019s a book to read,\u201d\u2014I\u2019m not kidding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And we\u2019ve done the same [with women friends].\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Men can read this book and say, \u201cLet\u2019s talk about it.\u201d We\u2019re doing a task, so it\u2019s sort of shoulder to shoulder; but then, every once in awhile, we\u2019ll turn to each other and go, \u201cWhat\u2019d you learn?\u201d And we have a great book for you!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We do! It\u2019s the book Kelly\u2019s written called <em>Friend-ish<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tKelly, thanks for being on <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>and for talking about all of this with us. This has been really helpful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kelly: <\/strong>Well, thank you so much, guys, for having me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let\u2019s hope that <em>a lot<\/em> of listeners will take the plunge and read the book with a highlighter\u2014maybe with some friends\u2014and maybe we can see some of the loneliness, that many people are experiencing in our culture today, maybe some of that can evaporate as people learn how to be better friends with one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, for more information about Kelly\u2019s book, <em>Friend-ish<\/em>. You can order it from us online. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order. Our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. So again, the book is called <em>Friend-ish<\/em>. Order online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call to order at 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, all of us have had to think differently about friendships in these days because of the coronavirus and trying to maintain those friendships and relationships using screens and texts and phones and social media but staying connected to one another because that really is important. How we think and how we live out our lives in this moment is critical. This is a strategic moment for us as followers of Christ. To be able to declare the goodness of God when people are afraid and they are wondering and have questions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re so grateful that our friend, Dr. John Piper, has written a book that addresses this subject. The book is called <em>Coronavirus and Christ<\/em>. The print addition of the book is supposed to be out in a week or two but we have the audio book and the e-book available now and it\u2019s available from us for a free download. All you have to do is go to FamilyLife Today.com and you can download either the e-book or the audio book of John Piper\u2019s new <em>Coronavirus and Christ<\/em> book. We want to thank the folks at Desiring God for making this possible. If you missed our conversation with John Piper earlier this week that\u2019s available as a podcast online at FamilyLife Today.com as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur team is working regularly to put out new resources to help your family know how to make the most of these days. Activities you can do together and ways you can keep your sanity in the midst of this social distancing. So, look for that when you go to our website as well. That\u2019s FamilyLife Today.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd thanks to those of you who support this ministry and make all this work possible. We are grateful for you and we\u2019re praying for you in the midst of this time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend! Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend. And hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk about the importance of commitment in marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Have a great weekend. We\u2019ll see you Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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