{"id":305910,"date":"2020-04-08T07:00:06","date_gmt":"2020-04-08T11:00:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-influence-of-the-early-church\/"},"modified":"2020-04-08T07:00:06","modified_gmt":"2020-04-08T11:00:06","slug":"the-influence-of-the-early-church","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-influence-of-the-early-church\/","title":{"rendered":"The Influence of the Early Church"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>How did the unlearned, poor disciples of the early church change the world? Jerry Sittser shares what the early Christians did to influence their neighbors and transform their culture.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-04-08.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:58","filesize":"28.36M","filesize_raw":"29733858","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2822],"tags":[6866],"podcast_series":[8350],"cwp_profile":[9167],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305910","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-influence-the-culture","podcast_series-resilient-faith","cwp_profile-jerry-sittser","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305910\/the-influence-of-the-early-church","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305910\/the-influence-of-the-early-church","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"vHmTroi3Zg\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-influence-of-the-early-church\/\">The Influence of the Early Church<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-influence-of-the-early-church\/embed\/#?secret=vHmTroi3Zg\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Influence of the Early Church&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"vHmTroi3Zg\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-04-08.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-04-08.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The Bible tells us we're to set our mind on things above, not on things on earth. Jerry Sittser says that's part of how the early church changed the world they were living in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>They believed in a kind of transcendent kingdom, that was not of this world, but it had everything to do <em>with<\/em> this world. So Christianity was kind of seditionist\/a subversive movement\u2014but not in the way we popularize it or conceive of it today\u2014where we're marching; we're protesting; we're forcing the powers that be to bend to our will. They didn't do any of that; and that was the secret, in my opinion, to their impact and their success.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, April 8<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Are there things we can learn from the first century church about how to have an impact in the world we live in? Jerry Sittser says that there is a lot we can learn. We'll talk with him about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I think all of us, at some point,\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\thave looked at the small band of people, who were around when Jesus ascended into heaven, and thought, \u201cHow did they change the world?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014because they were really nobodies in that culture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, exactly; and you think, \u201cWhat can we learn from them that can help us figure out how we can change the world today and point people to Jesus today?\u201d We're going to get a chance to visit that theme today with one of my favorite people; alright? Jerry Sittser is joining us again on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Welcome back! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Thank you, Bob. It's <em>so<\/em> good to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You guys go way back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We do, and this is your first time to meet Jerry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, I'm already fascinated by the talks we've already been having before recording. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; Jerry is a professor at Whitworth University in Spokane, Washington. Although, your season there is coming to a little bit of an end; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong> Official retirement next June. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow!\u2014and how many years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong> Thirty-one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Think of the students; think of the legacies\u2014you have impacted the lives of so many men and women who\u2014some of them still write to you and call you and talk about the impact you had on their life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong> Last Monday, I taught my last \u201cHistory of Christianity 1\u201dclass. About a dozen alum showed up, and the last thing we did in the class was sing five great hymns from the \u201cHistory of Christianity\u201d course. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you really? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>It was just glorious.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I want to be in your class. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong> We sang a hymn by Prudentius\u2014but historic hymns\u2014Prudentius. We sang <em>Be Thou My Vision<\/em>; we sang a hymn by Francis of Assisi. It was lovely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Was <em>A Mighty Fortress<\/em>\u2014was that one of them? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>No, I kept pre-Reformation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You stayed out of\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>\u2014Bernard of Clairvaux. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jerry has written a book that is still a classic. I mean, anybody you know, who is going through a season of loss and grief\u2014the book, <em>A Grace Disguised<\/em>\u2014I don't know how many copies it has sold; I know how many I've given away. It's part memoir because of the season of loss and grief that you went through; but it's also how God meets you in that season, and shepherds you through that season, and what you can learn about Him and about yourself in that season. It's profound; it's a book we keep in our <em>FamilyLife <\/em>Resource Center. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour new book is fascinating; it's a book called <em>Resilient Faith. <\/em>The subtitle is <em>How the Early Christian \u201cThird Way\u201d Changed the World<\/em>. We've got to start with: \u201cWhat is the \u2018<em>Third <\/em>Way\u2019?\u201d; don't we? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Yes, we do. I'll try to make this short and sweet. The phrase first appears in a second century document written by an unknown Christian apologist; that is, a defender of the faith. He wrote around the year 140; it's very short. I'd really encourage listeners to read it. You can find it online\u2014it's called the \u201cSo-Called Letter to Diognetus\u201d\u2014it's beautiful; it's beautifully-written. It's only 12\/14 pages long. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis unknown author is writing to a Roman official. He uses the phrase, \u201cthird race\u201d or \u201cthird way,\u201d to describe what the Roman official already knew about Christianity. There was something about the Christian movement that was so new, and so unusual, and unique that Rome didn't know what to call it; so they called it the \u201cthird race\u201d or the \u201cthird way.\u201d The first was the Roman way. The second way was the Jewish way: Rome was very familiar with Jews; there were a lot of Jews in the Greco-Roman world\u2014about ten percent of the population was Jewish\u2014some five million people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I didn't know that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>The third way was this new, small, new religion called Christianity. Rome was partly fascinated by it, partly disturbed by it, and partly hostile to it. The unknown author of this letter, writing to Diognetus, wants to explain\/describe what made Christianity so unique; hence, \u201cthird race\u201d\/\u201dthird wave.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Interesting that Judaism stood out\u2014because Rome was conquering people, right and left; and they all had their tribal religions\u2014but somehow Judaism stood out among those religions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>It did. Those were called Diasporic Jews because they were away from the Jewish homeland. By 70 AD that [homeland] was shut down: the temple was destroyed and the wall was broken down. Most Jews were already dispersed; that pretty much dispersed the rest of them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRome respected Judaism because Judaism was an ancient religion, and Rome liked things old. They were always suspicious of new things. Rome had a <em>tremendous<\/em> capacity to absorb new things into its pantheon of gods and into its various rites and rituals. Judaism could not be absorbed. They actually gave Jews favors: they didn't force Jews to serve in the army, for example. Judaism was different enough and observable enough that Rome could keep an eye on it. As I say in my book, it is like an opposing team, wearing a jersey; you always know they're there. They practice circumcision; they ate Kosher; so it tended to isolate Jews.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause it was so difficult to become a Jew, Rome could respect it; but very few people became it, so to speak. In the book, I say that the way of Rome was accommodation; the way of Judaism was isolation. The way of Christianity was <em>different<\/em>; it was immersion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tChristians in this early period\u2014roughly from 35 AD to the eve of Constantine, the last great persecution\/around the year 300\u2014so we're talking about a 265-year period of time. Christians had this amazing capacity to fit into the Roman world: speak the same language, shop in the same markets, eat the same food, dress the same way, speak the local languages or dialects. They had this tremendous capacity to <em>adapt<\/em> but not be absorbed. They were able to maintain high standards of discipleship and a very distinct belief system; and yet, not isolate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, that's amazing to me; and that's really the story I tell\u2014<em>how<\/em> they actually did that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As we look at where we are, would you say that America is post-Christian today? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>No, I do not think it's post-Christian. We still have <em>very<\/em> high rates of identification of Christian belief. Most recent poll is 70 percent of Americans self-identify as Christians. By the way, 10 years ago, it was 84 percent; so in 10 years\u2014from a statistical point of view\u2014a precipitous drop. But most Americans still identify as Christian. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would say we're post-Christendom; that is, it's not culturally familiar anymore. There's not as much privilege and power, being Christian, as there used to be. Christianity and America were virtually synonymous for several centuries; I would say that's not the case so much anymore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Even Christian morality or Christian identity\u2014things like kids knowing what Easter is all about\u2014we've lost a little of that in the culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong> Well, just look at the process in the last maybe 25\/40 years. The church spent centuries \u201cChristianizing\u201d a pagan calendar; we're \u201cpaganizing\u201d the Christian calendar\u2014all you have to do is look at Christmas or Easter. My favorite holiday now is Thanksgiving because it's kind of the least preferred.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s not commercialized. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>It's not as commercialized, outside, once you get past the turkey, you know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201c\u2026in the world, not of the world\u201d\u2014is that encapsulating the third wave?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Yes; except I think, when we hear that, it's often: \u201c\u2026in the world but not of the world.\u201d They had a strong kingdom theology. The Jesus they followed was Lord; they called Him Lord, and they paid a price to call Him Lord. He was in competition with Caesar, but it was such a different kind of competition. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus never raised an army; He never wrote a book; He never built a palace. It's kind of interesting\u2014in one of the chapters of the book, I contrast the difference between Caesar Augustus, who was called the son of god, and Jesus of Nazareth, who was called the Son of God\u2014really different \u201csons of god\u201d\u2014those two are. [Laughter] You know, if we had been living during that period, we would have wanted to be invited to parties in Caesar's palace, not a party in a stable in Bethlehem. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>That's the God we serve. But we call that God \u201cLord\u201d: \u201cJesus Christ, the Lord.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey believed in a kind of transcendent kingdom, that was not of this world; but it had everything to do <em>with<\/em> this world. Christianity was kind of seditionist\/a subversive movement\u2014but not in the way we popularize or conceive of it today\u2014where we're marching; we're protesting; we're forcing the powers that be to bend to our will. They didn't do any of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>And that was the secret, in my opinion, to their impact and their success.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is what I find fascinating; because we think: \u201cOkay, what's our strategy need to be?\u201d \u201cWhat should cultural engagement look like?\u201d \u201cWhat's the approach we need to take?\u201d I read your book and its: \u201cBelieve that Jesus is who He is, and that the kingdom is real, and that it's bigger than the world we live in,\u201d and \u201cLive like that's true, and watch what happens.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cand watch what happens.\u201d They did that with enough success to maintain a growth pattern and an impact on the culture for 265 years. That's a longer period than going back to our Declaration of Independence. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tObviously, there were exceptions\u2014there were Christians that fell away\u2014we know this; I mean, the documents indicate this. But the general trajectory\u2014scholars estimate, that in the year 40, there were about maybe 5,000 Christians; by the year 300, there were \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t5 million. And that happened under a great deal of duress the whole time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You said that it went 265 years; by the time Constantine becomes the emperor, that was a shift away from the \u201cthird way\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>It's a complicated story. Constantine gave legal recognition to Christianity in the year 313. The emperor, Theodosius, at the end of that fourth century, made Christianity the <em>official<\/em> religion of the empire. The numbers changed dramatically. We can estimate in the year 300\u2014about 10 percent of the empire was Christian\u2014about 5 million people, just on the eve of the last great and biggest persecution under the Emperor Diocletian. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the year 360, 50 percent of the empire was Christian, and it became popular\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014real Christian or nominal Christian? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Well, a lot of it is nominal. I mean, you <em>can't<\/em> handle that growth rate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Before that, they had a process by which they would disciple people; it would take two to three years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat [change of recognition] elevated the level of serious Christianity to a critical mass in a given church; all that began to break down. It happened slowly over a period of maybe a hundred years, but all of that began to break down.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> For somebody to come into the church in the first 200 years\u2014I say this\/I think of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch, who's traveling; right?\u2014they baptize him\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong> \u2014right away. Cornelius was baptized right away. But let's think about this: \u201cWhat book was the eunuch reading?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The Book of Isaiah. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Yes, in the chariot; so he was a God-fearer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Cornelius was a fellow traveling Jew; he built a synagogue. So early conversions, in the apostolic period, were usually people who were either Jews or associated with Judaism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tImagine what it's going to be like when the Christian movement grows from Jerusalem to Samaria to Antioch\u2014which was a very diverse city\u2014scholars estimate 18 identifiable ethnic groups. That became the launching pad for missions to Corinth, Philippi\u2014and on it goes\u2014Roman world: Carthage. Alexandria.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tImagine what it would be like for a Christian to meet somebody, who came from a <em>genuinely<\/em> pagan background. They don't know anything about Genesis; they don't believe the world was created by God. They don't know about Moses, and Abraham, and Esther, and Ruth. They don't even know the categories: creation, fall, redemption\u2014blank slate\/nothing\u2014zero. You baptize them into what?\u2014they didn't know enough. So they developed this process of two to three years to gradually <em>move<\/em> them into the Christian fold; so that, being Christian was truly <em>meaningful<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And that's two to three years of catechetical training, and you couldn't be baptized until\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>You could not be baptized until afterwards; they were called the Rites of Initiation. But think about that\u2014I like the fact that you chose the word, \u201c training\u201d\u2014it wasn't education; it was training. It was more like what you do with an athlete or a musician, not what you do in a conventional classroom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And that culture is similar to what we're living in right now; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>I think so. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So we should copy a lot of their discipleship methods.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>That's music to my ears. [Laughter] Honestly, right now, I'm actually busy at Whitworth, developing a two-year new catechumen, and it's not just information. The reformation catechisms were information\/doctrine-driven.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right, right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>They taught doctrine; they taught the biblical story; they taught something along the lines of creeds\u2014all that. But they had a sponsor\u2014what we would now call a mentor\u2014they trained them in discipleship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's interesting\u2014during the Rites of Initiation, when they were being scrutinized or examined by the bishop before baptism\u2014they wouldn't simply ask: \u201cAnn, do you believe in God the Father, Almighty?\u201d and \u201cDo you believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son?\u201d and \u201cDo you believe in the Holy Spirit? Do you believe in the life of the church?\u201d And you would say, \u201cYes, yes, yes,\u201d\u2014repeat that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen they would ask: \u201cAnn, are you visiting widows?\u201d \u201cAre you reaching out to the poor?\u201d \u201cAre you visiting prisoners?\u201d That was as important to them as having correct doctrine. That was all part of the training process, under the guidance of a mentor, who would go through the same training with them. Mentors would go through it two, three, four, five times\u2014just like athletes do. It's like musicians playing scales every day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The people who are asking the question were people who were doing that as a rhythm of their own life. They were taking care of the widows and the orphans; their orthopraxy and their orthodoxy were both solid.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>They were a seamless whole. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I love the fact that you used the word, \u201crhythm.\u201d This is <em>amazing<\/em>\u2014early on, <em>before<\/em> we even get into the second century, one of the earliest Christian manuals written, the Didache, actually says Christians should be taking three times a day to pause to turn to God in worship. By the middle of the second century, it's <em>five<\/em> times a day. These were <em>natural<\/em> rhythms that they developed, constantly turned toward God: \u201cYou work in the world, you raise your families, your turn toward God.\u201d They used the Lord's prayer three times a day\u2014all of these rhythms that taught a disciplined way of life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf they had <em>not<\/em> done that, Christianity would have been reabsorbed by the Roman world. The <em>only<\/em> way it could remain distinct was either isolate from the culture or train people with enough maturity and strength to be able to <em>live<\/em> in that culture and not capitulate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>If they don't do good works, they don't change the world. Doctrine is not going to be enough; it's got to be both. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Rome <em>complained<\/em> about the good works, often with a kind of grudging admiration. I mean, I've got quite a bit in the book about even emperors; in fact, there's an early second century document, where a Roman provincial governor is writing to the Emperor Trajan. He said: \u201cChristians are affecting our economy. [Laughter] They're not buying temple merchandise. They're not buying animals for sacrifice.\u201d Merchants are complaining because the Christian lifestyle is challenging pagan values. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have evidence in a plague that swept the world in the year 250\u2014Christians were exemplary in how they cared for the sick and the dying. They would not only bury their own dead; they would bury the dead of their pagan neighbor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014at risk to themselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Many did; in fact, a bishop writes a letter to his diocese and says: \u201cMany Christians were heroic in how they cared for the sick, and they got the disease themselves.\u201d And then in this wonderful kind of theological statement\u2014bad science, but good theology\u2014he said, \u201cThey took on the disease of other people onto themselves.\u201d He said that because some of the people they were caring for recovered, and they died. Of course, they have the vicarious sacrifice of Jesus as a kind of image; so their point is\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tthat they took on the disease themselves, just like Jesus did for all of us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You're talking to a lot of moms and dads\/to a lot of people who love Jesus and who <em>long<\/em> to see the gospel explode in our culture. Do parents start to integrate monastic lifestyle patterns into their home? Do we start to have worship at 7:30 in the morning with our kids? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I'm thinking, \u201cWhere's that discipleship stuff you're writing about?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Well, I mean, yes, Bob. I have a chapter on identity and community, and I make three brief points. One is that the Christian movement introduced a new kind of fundamental identity in the Roman world\u2014it's not based on wealth or status; it's not based on ethnicity or religious identification\u2014it's based on being a new creature in Jesus Christ. That shapes all what I call your \u201csecondary identities\u201d: it's whether you're married or single, whether you're husband or wife, whether you're a household servant or a master. Christianity didn't <em>erase<\/em> those categories; it slowly began to transform them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other thing is that Christianity claimed to be a new commonwealth. Rome thought it was <em>the<\/em> empire of the world\u2014<em>the<\/em> commonwealth\u2014controlled by its army, its rituals and rites, and ultimately, the authority of the emperor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis little fledgling movement said: \u201cActually, no; we're the new commonwealth under Jesus Christ, as Lord. We're creating a new kind of people that's global.\u201d But then, they turned right around and create something vital at the local level: they call it the <em>oikos<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>ecumene<\/em>\u2014\u201ccommonwealth\u201d\u2014<em>oikos<\/em>: \u201chousehold\u201d\u2014a new household church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would suggest that families need to think of themselves as units of discipleship\u2014not just for the nuclear family\u2014but for kids that play soccer with their own children, neighbors, single people, elderly people. We become discipling units in our families. And that means we have to think about our values: that we're going to raise children, who are not going to be professional athletes\u2014which every parent with a seven-year-old soccer player thinks he or she is going to be; and of course, we all know that's nonsense\u2014but that we do soccer as a way of interfacing with non-churched people to introduce them to the Christian way of life and Christian belief system.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is where we can learn from history. We can learn from those who have gone before us, rather than thinking that they didn't know anything about our day and about technology. No; they knew about life, and about humanity, and about Jesus. I <em>love<\/em> your book, <em>Resilient Faith: How the Early Christian \u201cThird Way\u201d Changed the World<\/em>. I think it has a lot to say to us today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to order a copy of <em>Resilient Faith<\/em> by Jerry Sittser. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY. So again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that's 1-800-\u201dF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Get a copy of Jerry Sittser's outstanding book, <em>Resilient Faith: How the Early Christian \u201cThird Way\u201d Changed the World. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me say a word of thanks to those of you who are a part our mission: we want to change the world, here at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, one home at a time. We believe that, as we effectively develop godly marriages and families, that's how we bring salt and light into this culture. This daily radio program, the resources that are available online at FamilyLifeToday.com, our weekend getaways, all that we produce\u2014<em>you<\/em> make it possible and <em>you<\/em> help us reach more people, more often, every time you donate to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for your support if you\u2019ve given in the past. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you're a regular listener, and you've never given, today would be a <em>great<\/em> day for you to invest in the ministry of the gospel, through <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to donate online, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Thanks for your support and for being a part of helping to change the world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can be back with us tomorrow as we continue our conversation about what we can learn from the early church that applies to how we live for Christ in the 21<sup>st<\/sup> century. Jerry Sittser will be with us again. I hope you can be back as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:30:58"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["28.36M"],"filesize_raw":["29733858"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305910.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305910.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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did the unlearned, poor disciples of the early church change the world? Jerry Sittser shares what the early Christians did to influence their neighbors and transform their culture.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-04-08.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The Bible tells us we're to set our mind on things above, not on things on earth. Jerry Sittser says that's part of how the early church changed the world they were living in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>They believed in a kind of transcendent kingdom, that was not of this world, but it had everything to do <em>with<\/em> this world. So Christianity was kind of seditionist\/a subversive movement\u2014but not in the way we popularize it or conceive of it today\u2014where we're marching; we're protesting; we're forcing the powers that be to bend to our will. They didn't do any of that; and that was the secret, in my opinion, to their impact and their success.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, April 8<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Are there things we can learn from the first century church about how to have an impact in the world we live in? Jerry Sittser says that there is a lot we can learn. We'll talk with him about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I think all of us, at some point,\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\thave looked at the small band of people, who were around when Jesus ascended into heaven, and thought, \u201cHow did they change the world?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014because they were really nobodies in that culture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, exactly; and you think, \u201cWhat can we learn from them that can help us figure out how we can change the world today and point people to Jesus today?\u201d We're going to get a chance to visit that theme today with one of my favorite people; alright? Jerry Sittser is joining us again on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Welcome back! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Thank you, Bob. It's <em>so<\/em> good to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You guys go way back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We do, and this is your first time to meet Jerry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, I'm already fascinated by the talks we've already been having before recording. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; Jerry is a professor at Whitworth University in Spokane, Washington. Although, your season there is coming to a little bit of an end; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong> Official retirement next June. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow!\u2014and how many years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong> Thirty-one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Think of the students; think of the legacies\u2014you have impacted the lives of so many men and women who\u2014some of them still write to you and call you and talk about the impact you had on their life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong> Last Monday, I taught my last \u201cHistory of Christianity 1\u201dclass. About a dozen alum showed up, and the last thing we did in the class was sing five great hymns from the \u201cHistory of Christianity\u201d course. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you really? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>It was just glorious.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I want to be in your class. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong> We sang a hymn by Prudentius\u2014but historic hymns\u2014Prudentius. We sang <em>Be Thou My Vision<\/em>; we sang a hymn by Francis of Assisi. It was lovely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Was <em>A Mighty Fortress<\/em>\u2014was that one of them? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>No, I kept pre-Reformation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You stayed out of\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>\u2014Bernard of Clairvaux. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jerry has written a book that is still a classic. I mean, anybody you know, who is going through a season of loss and grief\u2014the book, <em>A Grace Disguised<\/em>\u2014I don't know how many copies it has sold; I know how many I've given away. It's part memoir because of the season of loss and grief that you went through; but it's also how God meets you in that season, and shepherds you through that season, and what you can learn about Him and about yourself in that season. It's profound; it's a book we keep in our <em>FamilyLife <\/em>Resource Center. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour new book is fascinating; it's a book called <em>Resilient Faith. <\/em>The subtitle is <em>How the Early Christian \u201cThird Way\u201d Changed the World<\/em>. We've got to start with: \u201cWhat is the \u2018<em>Third <\/em>Way\u2019?\u201d; don't we? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Yes, we do. I'll try to make this short and sweet. The phrase first appears in a second century document written by an unknown Christian apologist; that is, a defender of the faith. He wrote around the year 140; it's very short. I'd really encourage listeners to read it. You can find it online\u2014it's called the \u201cSo-Called Letter to Diognetus\u201d\u2014it's beautiful; it's beautifully-written. It's only 12\/14 pages long. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis unknown author is writing to a Roman official. He uses the phrase, \u201cthird race\u201d or \u201cthird way,\u201d to describe what the Roman official already knew about Christianity. There was something about the Christian movement that was so new, and so unusual, and unique that Rome didn't know what to call it; so they called it the \u201cthird race\u201d or the \u201cthird way.\u201d The first was the Roman way. The second way was the Jewish way: Rome was very familiar with Jews; there were a lot of Jews in the Greco-Roman world\u2014about ten percent of the population was Jewish\u2014some five million people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I didn't know that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>The third way was this new, small, new religion called Christianity. Rome was partly fascinated by it, partly disturbed by it, and partly hostile to it. The unknown author of this letter, writing to Diognetus, wants to explain\/describe what made Christianity so unique; hence, \u201cthird race\u201d\/\u201dthird wave.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Interesting that Judaism stood out\u2014because Rome was conquering people, right and left; and they all had their tribal religions\u2014but somehow Judaism stood out among those religions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>It did. Those were called Diasporic Jews because they were away from the Jewish homeland. By 70 AD that [homeland] was shut down: the temple was destroyed and the wall was broken down. Most Jews were already dispersed; that pretty much dispersed the rest of them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRome respected Judaism because Judaism was an ancient religion, and Rome liked things old. They were always suspicious of new things. Rome had a <em>tremendous<\/em> capacity to absorb new things into its pantheon of gods and into its various rites and rituals. Judaism could not be absorbed. They actually gave Jews favors: they didn't force Jews to serve in the army, for example. Judaism was different enough and observable enough that Rome could keep an eye on it. As I say in my book, it is like an opposing team, wearing a jersey; you always know they're there. They practice circumcision; they ate Kosher; so it tended to isolate Jews.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause it was so difficult to become a Jew, Rome could respect it; but very few people became it, so to speak. In the book, I say that the way of Rome was accommodation; the way of Judaism was isolation. The way of Christianity was <em>different<\/em>; it was immersion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tChristians in this early period\u2014roughly from 35 AD to the eve of Constantine, the last great persecution\/around the year 300\u2014so we're talking about a 265-year period of time. Christians had this amazing capacity to fit into the Roman world: speak the same language, shop in the same markets, eat the same food, dress the same way, speak the local languages or dialects. They had this tremendous capacity to <em>adapt<\/em> but not be absorbed. They were able to maintain high standards of discipleship and a very distinct belief system; and yet, not isolate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, that's amazing to me; and that's really the story I tell\u2014<em>how<\/em> they actually did that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As we look at where we are, would you say that America is post-Christian today? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>No, I do not think it's post-Christian. We still have <em>very<\/em> high rates of identification of Christian belief. Most recent poll is 70 percent of Americans self-identify as Christians. By the way, 10 years ago, it was 84 percent; so in 10 years\u2014from a statistical point of view\u2014a precipitous drop. But most Americans still identify as Christian. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would say we're post-Christendom; that is, it's not culturally familiar anymore. There's not as much privilege and power, being Christian, as there used to be. Christianity and America were virtually synonymous for several centuries; I would say that's not the case so much anymore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Even Christian morality or Christian identity\u2014things like kids knowing what Easter is all about\u2014we've lost a little of that in the culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong> Well, just look at the process in the last maybe 25\/40 years. The church spent centuries \u201cChristianizing\u201d a pagan calendar; we're \u201cpaganizing\u201d the Christian calendar\u2014all you have to do is look at Christmas or Easter. My favorite holiday now is Thanksgiving because it's kind of the least preferred.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s not commercialized. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>It's not as commercialized, outside, once you get past the turkey, you know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201c\u2026in the world, not of the world\u201d\u2014is that encapsulating the third wave?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Yes; except I think, when we hear that, it's often: \u201c\u2026in the world but not of the world.\u201d They had a strong kingdom theology. The Jesus they followed was Lord; they called Him Lord, and they paid a price to call Him Lord. He was in competition with Caesar, but it was such a different kind of competition. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus never raised an army; He never wrote a book; He never built a palace. It's kind of interesting\u2014in one of the chapters of the book, I contrast the difference between Caesar Augustus, who was called the son of god, and Jesus of Nazareth, who was called the Son of God\u2014really different \u201csons of god\u201d\u2014those two are. [Laughter] You know, if we had been living during that period, we would have wanted to be invited to parties in Caesar's palace, not a party in a stable in Bethlehem. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>That's the God we serve. But we call that God \u201cLord\u201d: \u201cJesus Christ, the Lord.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey believed in a kind of transcendent kingdom, that was not of this world; but it had everything to do <em>with<\/em> this world. Christianity was kind of seditionist\/a subversive movement\u2014but not in the way we popularize or conceive of it today\u2014where we're marching; we're protesting; we're forcing the powers that be to bend to our will. They didn't do any of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>And that was the secret, in my opinion, to their impact and their success.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is what I find fascinating; because we think: \u201cOkay, what's our strategy need to be?\u201d \u201cWhat should cultural engagement look like?\u201d \u201cWhat's the approach we need to take?\u201d I read your book and its: \u201cBelieve that Jesus is who He is, and that the kingdom is real, and that it's bigger than the world we live in,\u201d and \u201cLive like that's true, and watch what happens.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cand watch what happens.\u201d They did that with enough success to maintain a growth pattern and an impact on the culture for 265 years. That's a longer period than going back to our Declaration of Independence. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tObviously, there were exceptions\u2014there were Christians that fell away\u2014we know this; I mean, the documents indicate this. But the general trajectory\u2014scholars estimate, that in the year 40, there were about maybe 5,000 Christians; by the year 300, there were \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t5 million. And that happened under a great deal of duress the whole time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You said that it went 265 years; by the time Constantine becomes the emperor, that was a shift away from the \u201cthird way\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>It's a complicated story. Constantine gave legal recognition to Christianity in the year 313. The emperor, Theodosius, at the end of that fourth century, made Christianity the <em>official<\/em> religion of the empire. The numbers changed dramatically. We can estimate in the year 300\u2014about 10 percent of the empire was Christian\u2014about 5 million people, just on the eve of the last great and biggest persecution under the Emperor Diocletian. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the year 360, 50 percent of the empire was Christian, and it became popular\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014real Christian or nominal Christian? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Well, a lot of it is nominal. I mean, you <em>can't<\/em> handle that growth rate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Before that, they had a process by which they would disciple people; it would take two to three years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat [change of recognition] elevated the level of serious Christianity to a critical mass in a given church; all that began to break down. It happened slowly over a period of maybe a hundred years, but all of that began to break down.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> For somebody to come into the church in the first 200 years\u2014I say this\/I think of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch, who's traveling; right?\u2014they baptize him\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong> \u2014right away. Cornelius was baptized right away. But let's think about this: \u201cWhat book was the eunuch reading?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The Book of Isaiah. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Yes, in the chariot; so he was a God-fearer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Cornelius was a fellow traveling Jew; he built a synagogue. So early conversions, in the apostolic period, were usually people who were either Jews or associated with Judaism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tImagine what it's going to be like when the Christian movement grows from Jerusalem to Samaria to Antioch\u2014which was a very diverse city\u2014scholars estimate 18 identifiable ethnic groups. That became the launching pad for missions to Corinth, Philippi\u2014and on it goes\u2014Roman world: Carthage. Alexandria.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tImagine what it would be like for a Christian to meet somebody, who came from a <em>genuinely<\/em> pagan background. They don't know anything about Genesis; they don't believe the world was created by God. They don't know about Moses, and Abraham, and Esther, and Ruth. They don't even know the categories: creation, fall, redemption\u2014blank slate\/nothing\u2014zero. You baptize them into what?\u2014they didn't know enough. So they developed this process of two to three years to gradually <em>move<\/em> them into the Christian fold; so that, being Christian was truly <em>meaningful<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And that's two to three years of catechetical training, and you couldn't be baptized until\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>You could not be baptized until afterwards; they were called the Rites of Initiation. But think about that\u2014I like the fact that you chose the word, \u201c training\u201d\u2014it wasn't education; it was training. It was more like what you do with an athlete or a musician, not what you do in a conventional classroom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And that culture is similar to what we're living in right now; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>I think so. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So we should copy a lot of their discipleship methods.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>That's music to my ears. [Laughter] Honestly, right now, I'm actually busy at Whitworth, developing a two-year new catechumen, and it's not just information. The reformation catechisms were information\/doctrine-driven.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right, right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>They taught doctrine; they taught the biblical story; they taught something along the lines of creeds\u2014all that. But they had a sponsor\u2014what we would now call a mentor\u2014they trained them in discipleship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's interesting\u2014during the Rites of Initiation, when they were being scrutinized or examined by the bishop before baptism\u2014they wouldn't simply ask: \u201cAnn, do you believe in God the Father, Almighty?\u201d and \u201cDo you believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son?\u201d and \u201cDo you believe in the Holy Spirit? Do you believe in the life of the church?\u201d And you would say, \u201cYes, yes, yes,\u201d\u2014repeat that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen they would ask: \u201cAnn, are you visiting widows?\u201d \u201cAre you reaching out to the poor?\u201d \u201cAre you visiting prisoners?\u201d That was as important to them as having correct doctrine. That was all part of the training process, under the guidance of a mentor, who would go through the same training with them. Mentors would go through it two, three, four, five times\u2014just like athletes do. It's like musicians playing scales every day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The people who are asking the question were people who were doing that as a rhythm of their own life. They were taking care of the widows and the orphans; their orthopraxy and their orthodoxy were both solid.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>They were a seamless whole. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I love the fact that you used the word, \u201crhythm.\u201d This is <em>amazing<\/em>\u2014early on, <em>before<\/em> we even get into the second century, one of the earliest Christian manuals written, the Didache, actually says Christians should be taking three times a day to pause to turn to God in worship. By the middle of the second century, it's <em>five<\/em> times a day. These were <em>natural<\/em> rhythms that they developed, constantly turned toward God: \u201cYou work in the world, you raise your families, your turn toward God.\u201d They used the Lord's prayer three times a day\u2014all of these rhythms that taught a disciplined way of life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf they had <em>not<\/em> done that, Christianity would have been reabsorbed by the Roman world. The <em>only<\/em> way it could remain distinct was either isolate from the culture or train people with enough maturity and strength to be able to <em>live<\/em> in that culture and not capitulate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>If they don't do good works, they don't change the world. Doctrine is not going to be enough; it's got to be both. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Rome <em>complained<\/em> about the good works, often with a kind of grudging admiration. I mean, I've got quite a bit in the book about even emperors; in fact, there's an early second century document, where a Roman provincial governor is writing to the Emperor Trajan. He said: \u201cChristians are affecting our economy. [Laughter] They're not buying temple merchandise. They're not buying animals for sacrifice.\u201d Merchants are complaining because the Christian lifestyle is challenging pagan values. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have evidence in a plague that swept the world in the year 250\u2014Christians were exemplary in how they cared for the sick and the dying. They would not only bury their own dead; they would bury the dead of their pagan neighbor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014at risk to themselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Many did; in fact, a bishop writes a letter to his diocese and says: \u201cMany Christians were heroic in how they cared for the sick, and they got the disease themselves.\u201d And then in this wonderful kind of theological statement\u2014bad science, but good theology\u2014he said, \u201cThey took on the disease of other people onto themselves.\u201d He said that because some of the people they were caring for recovered, and they died. Of course, they have the vicarious sacrifice of Jesus as a kind of image; so their point is\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tthat they took on the disease themselves, just like Jesus did for all of us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You're talking to a lot of moms and dads\/to a lot of people who love Jesus and who <em>long<\/em> to see the gospel explode in our culture. Do parents start to integrate monastic lifestyle patterns into their home? Do we start to have worship at 7:30 in the morning with our kids? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I'm thinking, \u201cWhere's that discipleship stuff you're writing about?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry: <\/strong>Well, I mean, yes, Bob. I have a chapter on identity and community, and I make three brief points. One is that the Christian movement introduced a new kind of fundamental identity in the Roman world\u2014it's not based on wealth or status; it's not based on ethnicity or religious identification\u2014it's based on being a new creature in Jesus Christ. That shapes all what I call your \u201csecondary identities\u201d: it's whether you're married or single, whether you're husband or wife, whether you're a household servant or a master. Christianity didn't <em>erase<\/em> those categories; it slowly began to transform them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other thing is that Christianity claimed to be a new commonwealth. Rome thought it was <em>the<\/em> empire of the world\u2014<em>the<\/em> commonwealth\u2014controlled by its army, its rituals and rites, and ultimately, the authority of the emperor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis little fledgling movement said: \u201cActually, no; we're the new commonwealth under Jesus Christ, as Lord. We're creating a new kind of people that's global.\u201d But then, they turned right around and create something vital at the local level: they call it the <em>oikos<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>ecumene<\/em>\u2014\u201ccommonwealth\u201d\u2014<em>oikos<\/em>: \u201chousehold\u201d\u2014a new household church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would suggest that families need to think of themselves as units of discipleship\u2014not just for the nuclear family\u2014but for kids that play soccer with their own children, neighbors, single people, elderly people. We become discipling units in our families. And that means we have to think about our values: that we're going to raise children, who are not going to be professional athletes\u2014which every parent with a seven-year-old soccer player thinks he or she is going to be; and of course, we all know that's nonsense\u2014but that we do soccer as a way of interfacing with non-churched people to introduce them to the Christian way of life and Christian belief system.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is where we can learn from history. We can learn from those who have gone before us, rather than thinking that they didn't know anything about our day and about technology. No; they knew about life, and about humanity, and about Jesus. I <em>love<\/em> your book, <em>Resilient Faith: How the Early Christian \u201cThird Way\u201d Changed the World<\/em>. I think it has a lot to say to us today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to order a copy of <em>Resilient Faith<\/em> by Jerry Sittser. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY. So again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that's 1-800-\u201dF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Get a copy of Jerry Sittser's outstanding book, <em>Resilient Faith: How the Early Christian \u201cThird Way\u201d Changed the World. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me say a word of thanks to those of you who are a part our mission: we want to change the world, here at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, one home at a time. We believe that, as we effectively develop godly marriages and families, that's how we bring salt and light into this culture. This daily radio program, the resources that are available online at FamilyLifeToday.com, our weekend getaways, all that we produce\u2014<em>you<\/em> make it possible and <em>you<\/em> help us reach more people, more often, every time you donate to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for your support if you\u2019ve given in the past. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you're a regular listener, and you've never given, today would be a <em>great<\/em> day for you to invest in the ministry of the gospel, through <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to donate online, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Thanks for your support and for being a part of helping to change the world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can be back with us tomorrow as we continue our conversation about what we can learn from the early church that applies to how we live for Christ in the 21<sup>st<\/sup> century. Jerry Sittser will be with us again. I hope you can be back as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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