{"id":305875,"date":"2020-03-25T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-03-25T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/talking-to-your-son-about-porn\/"},"modified":"2020-03-25T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-03-25T11:00:04","slug":"talking-to-your-son-about-porn","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/talking-to-your-son-about-porn\/","title":{"rendered":"Talking to Your Son About Porn"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Guest: Dave Willis | Series: Raising Boys To Respect Girls | When should you talk to your son about the dangers of porn? Author Dave Willis talks to parents about raising boys who respect girls. Women are to be cherished, and that is contrary to the message porn sends. Willis recalls his past struggles with porn, and offers dads some valuable insight into broaching this topic with their sons.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/.<br \/>\n \tThe Weekend to Remember\u00ae https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/weekend-to-remember\/<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<br \/>\n \tHave the FamilyLife Today\u00ae podcast and resources helped you?\u00a0 Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>When should you talk to your son about the dangers of porn? Author Dave Willis recalls his past struggles with porn, and offers dads some valuable insight into broaching this topic with their sons.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-03-25.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:06","filesize":"25.73M","filesize_raw":"26979356","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2837,2826,2844,2835],"tags":[2989],"podcast_series":[8346],"cwp_profile":[9605],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305875","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-fathers","category-men","category-pornography","category-raising-boys","tag-pornography","podcast_series-raising-boys-to-respect-girls","cwp_profile-dave-willis","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305875\/talking-to-your-son-about-porn","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305875\/talking-to-your-son-about-porn","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"5DSJHVStKX\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/talking-to-your-son-about-porn\/\">Talking to Your Son About Porn<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/talking-to-your-son-about-porn\/embed\/#?secret=5DSJHVStKX\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Talking to Your Son About Porn&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"5DSJHVStKX\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-03-25.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-03-25.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We know that, as parents, we want to do all we can to help steer our sons and our daughters away from pornography. Dave Willis says he remembers when it dawned on him the subtle impact that pornography can have in the life of a young man.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I saw this guy at a wedding when I was a young adult. He was off by himself; he was hitting the bar pretty heavily. I watched him as he watched women, and it was the most discouraging and disgusting things that I had seen. Every woman that walked anywhere near him, he would just gawk at her. I watched him, just sad and alone, standing in a corner, objectifying every woman that walked by. It was like the Holy Spirit was tapping me on the shoulder and saying: \u201cThat\u2019s where porn leads. Is that what you want for your life?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, March 25<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. There is an inevitable impact on a man\u2019s life if he\u2019s looking at pornography: it will impact how he views women\/whether he respects women. We\u2019ll talk more with Dave Willis today about how to protect our sons from pornography. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, the conversation we\u2019re having this week about raising sons, who respect girls in the MeToo era, we tend to focus on respect as being one issue: respect means how you treat a young woman in terms of your sexual relationship with her\/your physical relationship with her. Respect is really bigger than that; a woman feels respected when she\u2019s honored in that area, but there\u2019s more to it than that; isn\u2019t there?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think so. I think it has a lot to do with that; but it also has to do with how you treat her and respect her mind, her thoughts, and just being courteous and kind. Every person\/every human wants that.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>She wants to know that she is an equal image-bearer\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that she is valued and esteemed, and that she has a voice and a presence, and is not being disregarded.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>My wife has told me, Bob, the word is \u201ccherish.\u201d I don\u2019t know about every other guy, but I know me; I cherish stuff. I have a few guitars; it\u2019s like, \u201cYou\u2019re not touching those guitars.\u201d I have a motorcycle\u2014it\u2019s easy for a guy to cherish his stuff. I\u2019m an expert on those things: I take care of those things; I <em>talk<\/em> about those things.\n\nIt\u2019s like, \u201cWell, what would my wife feel like if she was cherished?\u2014she was seen?\u2014 she was protected?\u2014she was applauded? I studied her in such a way I knew that she was like an acoustic guitar and needed to be in a humidified room\u2014I\u2019m kidding\u2014but you know what I\u2019m saying? [Laughter] It\u2019s just like, \u201cOh, if she felt, every second of every day, her man was protecting and taking care of her,\u201d\u2014<em>that\u2019s<\/em> what Ann has taught me\u2014\u201cthat\u2019s what a woman longs for.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s not just sexual; it is partly sexual\u2014it\u2019s <em>way<\/em> beyond that\u2014that they would feel <em>valued<\/em> by their men.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think that is true; but also that yes, what you\u2019re saying, Bob, too, is that we\u2019re respected and we\u2019re co-heirs. You know, we\u2019re side by side in this battle together\u2014that we\u2019re seen and we\u2019re valued\u2014all of those things. I like this conversation, where we\u2019re going! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think the reason that we gravitate in the MeToo direction here is because we live in a hyper-sexualized culture\u2014and everything from music videos, to movies, to\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014to video games.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014to what\u2019s going on in culture\u2014is sending a message to boys, saying: \u201cYou should view women as sex objects. You should view women as somebody who is there for your delight and your pleasure.\u201d\n\nAs parents, we need to make sure that we\u2019re sending a countercultural message to our sons.\n\nDave Willis is joining us this week on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; Dave, welcome back.\n\n<strong>Dave W.:<\/strong> Thanks for having me!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dave is a dad\/a husband. He and Ashley live in Texas and are raising their four boys. Dave works with MarriageToday<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> and has written a book called <em>Raising Boys Who Respect Girls<\/em>.\n\nIn the area of respecting them physically, one of the issues in our culture today that every little boy is confronted with, at some point in his growing up, is the issue of pornography and the destructive message that that is sending when it comes to how to respect a young woman.\n\n<strong>Dave W.: <\/strong>Yes, yes; without a doubt. I just kind of came to a place, early on\u2014Ashley and I both\u2014as we were talking about: \u201cWhat does a win look like in parenting?\u201d I\u2019m seeing all these stories in the MeToo era of guys, that I\u2019d looked at and revered from a distance, who were falling in, really, public ways. I said: \u201cYou know, if we raise sons, who are outwardly successful in every way imaginable, and yet they are secretly disrespectful toward women or users of women, then I feel like I would have failed as a father. This is something we have to get right.\u201d\n\nOne of the biggest <em>weapons<\/em> against that message that\u2019s really creating a toxic impact in the minds and hearts of young men is pornography, so that\u2019s kind of the frontline of this conversation. I know that, from the work that Ashley and I do in marriage ministry, seeing how porn is unraveling and causing wedges in so many marriages, both current porn use and baggage from past porn use\u2014and just knowing the world our boys are growing up in, where it is everywhere, and exposure is happening earlier and earlier\u2014that this has to be a big part of the conversation.\n\nI know from personal experience. I was a young man\/I was exposed to porn in early adolescence\u2014probably 14 years old or so\u2014when I really kind of found hard-core pornography. I would wrestle in this terrible cycle of staying away from it for awhile, out of shame, then falling back into it\u2014never following the biblical path of healing; which is to repent, to get accountability, to take action, to not only ask forgiveness from God but to walk the path of healing. I was trying to do what pride says to do; which is, \u201cDeal with it on your own.\u201d\n\nI stayed in <em>bondage<\/em> in that area for a long time, and it created a <em>ton<\/em> of baggage. It really warped my view of women, and of sex, and of myself. I so, so, so want to protect my boys from that and help them see the right path; because I didn\u2019t feel like I could talk to anybody about it when I was in the midst of that. It took a long time for me to come out of that, and damage was done that I want to prevent, not only my boys, but this whole generation of boys from having to walk through.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There was a study you mention in your book, where parents were watching their kids\u2014like was this behind a\/they were behind a two-way mirror?\u2014is that how it worked?\n\n<strong>Dave W.: <\/strong>Yes, it was a two-way mirror deal\u2014sociologists sitting down with kids\u2014just trying to understand the kind of the world they\u2019re growing up in and porn they\u2019ve been exposed to. These parents, on the other side of this two-way mirror, were <em>horrified<\/em>, listening to their kids\u2014boys and girls\u2014talk about the normalization of porn and horrendous aspects of pornography that objectify people in the worst kind of ways\u2014I mean, in ways that aren\u2019t even appropriate to talk about in this setting.\n\nIt was so eye-opening for these parents to say: \u201cMy kids have seen this stuff,\u201d and \u201cThey look at this as entertainment, and they laugh about it with their peers.\u201d These are their kids that they looked at and said: \u201cThese are good kids. These are kids that wouldn\u2019t gravitate toward that kind of thing.\u201d But it was eye-opening for them to see the culture they\u2019re being raised in, the ever-present nature of some of this stuff. It\u2019s the world in which they\u2019re growing up.\n\nA lot of times, parents are unaware of that, or have no idea how to talk about it or how to deal with it, or they\u2019re afraid that having the conversation will create some awkward questions that the parents themselves will have to answer about maybe some of their own past mistakes the parents don\u2019t feel equipped to answer. So we have to have the courage.\n\nI think one of the biggest responsibilities we have, as parents, is to have the courage to <em>lead<\/em> these conversations\u2014even though it might seem awkward at first\/even though it might reveal some parts of our own past that we might prefer to have hidden\u2014but we might need to bring out into the light for the sake of building an honest relationship with our kids, and helping them from repeating some of the same mistakes we might have made. We have to go there; we have to dive into the mess that our kids are living in and help pull them out.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think that this isn\u2019t just a conversation as a one-time conversation; and it doesn\u2019t just have to be with the dad, because we have a lot of moms that are spending more time with sons\u2014or even moms that are raising their sons alone, and their daughters.\n\nI had a conversation with our boys. I think they were eight, six, and three. I remember we were driving and some topic came up; and I said, \u201cHey, boys, have you by chance seen any magazines or pictures that your friends have shown you of naked men and women together?\u201d They were like, \u201cNo!\u201d I said, \u201cWell, there might be a day that you\u2019re with one of your friends and they pull out something in a magazine or online.\u201d They were like: \u201cWhy would anyone want to look at that?! That is so gross!\u201d\n\nI said, \u201cWell, you\u2019re going to come to an age, where you might desire\/you probably will desire, and that\u2019s not wrong to desire that; because God\u2019s given you that desire for your wife in the future. But God made it so that that is for your wife. But I want you to know that that\u2019s something that God doesn\u2019t want you to go into, because it\u2019s going to be around in the future; you\u2019ll probably see it.\u201d\n\nI said, \u201cI want you to know that you can talk to Dad and [me] about it. I don\u2019t want you to feel guilty if you desire to look at that later, as your hormones change.\u201d Of course, the three-year-old\u2019s doing whatever; but I\u2019m really talking to the eight-year-old.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It was interesting\u2014because another day, on the way home from school, probably a year or two later\u2014that oldest son says, \u201cHey, Mom, remember when you said that I might have that desire?\u201d Well, the whole situation did happen, where he was at a home, where that came up. He said, \u201cMom, I really did want to look at that; but I didn\u2019t, because of what you had said.\u201d\n\nI think, as parents, we just need to open the door of conversation so it\u2019s not weird or awkward; and it\u2019s not just a one-time thing.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Here\u2019s the question: \u201cWhen did you say to your sons, \u2018This is something I struggled with\u2019?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014teenage years.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014when they were teens.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, I can tell you the day, with my oldest son; I\u2019ve shared it here before. We found porn on our computer at home. Ann first came to me and said, \u201cIs this you?\u201d I said, \u201cNo.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOh my goodness; it\u2019s one of our boys.\u201d\n\nHe\u2019s given us permission, obviously, to share this. As I sat across from CJ, and we talked about this, I wept and I said: \u201cCJ, here\u2019s why I\u2019m weeping. You have just opened a door to something I\u2019ve opened. This is going to be a battle the rest of your life.\u201d\n\nIt was the beginning of a relationship with him\u2014and I\u2019m not saying it\u2019s perfect\u2014but we can battle this together. Here is at 33, and all three of my sons, we\u2019ve talked about this. We started talking about it when they were 12, 13, 14 years old; and it\u2019s still going on\u2014it\u2019s still something you want to continue to talk through.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Your story\u2019s in your book, Dave.\n\n<strong>Dave W.: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019ve shared it publicly. Do your boys know?\n\n<strong>Dave W.: <\/strong>My two older boys do; they are 14 and 12\u2014that\u2019s been fairly recent.\n\nWe\u2019ve talked to them, from an early age, in age-appropriate ways, about sex; but to get really specific into my porn struggle, that\u2019s been more recent\u2014just to help them in the world they\u2019re navigating, and even to respond to some of the things that I was starting to see pop up in search histories, in YouTube and different places\u2014where I could tell that their minds and curiosities were starting to lead down a road.\n\nThe conversations for us, as it related to sex and respecting women\u2014and Ann, like you said, it\u2019s not just having <em>the talk<\/em>\u2014it\u2019s really the talks, plural\u2014it\u2019s building that bond of conversation and trust that extends on out, like the way you guys have done with your kids, which is really the goal. It\u2019s what I hope for my kids when they\u2019re grown.\n\nOne of the early conversations I remember\u2014I think I share this story in the book\u2014was when our son, Connor, was seven at the time. We were at the barber shop, and they had magazines at the barber shop. I wasn\u2019t really paying attention; because I think, \u201cWell, it\u2019s a safe place,\u201d\u2014right? \u2014it\u2019s <em>Field &amp; Stream<\/em> and that kind of stuff. I look over, and he\u2019s looking at a magazine. I won\u2019t say which one; but it\u2019s a magazine known very specifically for provocative images\u2014not nude images\u2014but very provocative, objectifying images of women. He was looking at this in wonder; and he was like, \u201cOh my goodness; this is amazing!\u201d\n\nI\u2019m like, \u201cWell, buddy, let\u2019s talk about this.\u201d I closed the magazine; and we had a conversation very similar to some of the things you\u2019ve said, about how God put this desire: \u201cIt\u2019s a healthy desire to appreciate a woman\u2019s beauty and be drawn to her; and one day, that\u2019s going to be for your wife. But to just look at a woman that way, it\u2019s really\u2026\u201d\u2014and trying to explain, in age-appropriate ways, the concept of disrespect.\n\nHe said that he got it, so I kind of put the magazine on the bottom of the stack. I went over there, and I look back a few minutes later. He\u2019s holding up the actual <em>Field &amp; Stream<\/em>, but his eyes are really wide again. I walk over there\u2014and my seven-year-old has taken that magazine from the bottom of the stack, put it inside <em>Field &amp; Stream<\/em>\u2014and was looking at it again. I\u2019m like, \u201cBuddy, we just talked about this!\u201d He goes, \u201cI know, but\u2026\u201d\n\nIn moments like that, sometimes you can\u2019t plan for it, you just have to join him in the moment and say, \u201cAlright, here\u2019s God\u2019s plan for these kinds of things.\u201d In an age-appropriate way: \u201cGod made you a boy; it\u2019s a beautiful thing. He made girls; you\u2019re going to appreciate their beauty; but He has a plan for you and your future wife. If we\u2019re just looking at women as just an object to look at, that\u2019s not showing them the respect that they deserve.\u201d\n\nWe have to start, sometimes, earlier than it feels\u2014it\u2019s awkwardly early in the world that we\u2019re in\u2014just because of what our kids are being exposed to.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>How do you negotiate that world that we live in now, as fathers, and as sons, and daughters?\n\n<strong>Dave W.: <\/strong>It requires constant conversation, constant vigilance. The technology\u2014which, again, I\u2019m not demonizing technology\u2014it is a gift that can be used for so much good. Right now, you\u2019re listening to this broadcast because of technology and learning tools to help you in your faith and in your family. But technology is also being used by people that have very, very toxic intent, as it means getting to the hearts of our sons and daughters and polluting their mind with the wrong kinds of imagery.\n\nEven in Texas, where I live, recently there was a news story: the first robot brothel has opened up. That\u2019s technology taking this natural next step in this sinful progression of looking at sex as a commodity and looking at human pleasure as it relates to sex as just a commodity, where we can use one another instead of respecting one another. That\u2019s where porn leads.\n\nI try to start the conversations about porn and sex by helping my sons see where it leads. One of my friends, when I was growing up\u2014his dad had this legendary stash of pornography\u2014that as young teenage boys, everybody wanted to go and sleep over at their house to raid this porn closet, so to speak. I saw this guy at a wedding, when I was a young adult, and he was off by himself. He was hitting the bar pretty heavily. I watched him as he watched women, and it was one of the most discouraging and disgusting things that I had seen. Every woman that walked anywhere near him, he just would gawk at her and give her the up\/down. You could tell, in his mind, he was objectifying and fantasizing about every woman as if she was nothing but an object.\n\nI watched him just sad and alone, standing in a corner, objectifying every woman that walked by. It was like the Holy Spirit was tapping me on the shoulder and saying: \u201cThat\u2019s where porn leads. Is that what you want for your life?\u201d It ostracizes us; it cuts us off from healthy relationships; and one day, you\u2019re just a creepy guy in the corner, that is objectifying every person that walks by, without any meaningful relationships in your life.\n\nPorn gives the <em>illusion<\/em> of intimacy in relationship, which is, in its purest form, something we crave. We all want intimacy in relationships, but porn cheapens all of it\u2014it cheapens it. Someone once said, \u201cThe problem with porn isn\u2019t that it shows too much; it\u2019s that it shows too little.\u201d It shows too little; because it makes us think, \u201cThis is all sex is,\u201d when God created it to\u2014not only be a physical act\u2014but emotional, spiritual, physical happening in this beautiful oneness within the covenant of marriage. To use sex in any way outside of God\u2019s perfect design for it, it always, always causes harm.\n\nAshley teaches the boys that: \u201cIt\u2019s like fire in a fireplace. If the fireplace is marriage and fire is sex\u2014when it stays in the fireplace, it gives warmth, and light, and heat to the whole home\u2014but when you take that same fire, and you put it places it doesn\u2019t belong\u2014you take it outside the protection of that fireplace\u2014it burns the house down; everybody gets hurt. It\u2019s the same with sex.\u201d We have to teach our kids where it leads\u2014not just the instant gratification of the quick pleasure hit\u2014but where that leads if they continue down that path.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Our kids are growing up on a battlefield. There\u2019s a target on their backs, where the enemy of our souls would like to take all of us under\u2014our marriages\/our kids. It\u2019s so deceptive, and it\u2019s so sly; and there\u2019s this slippery slope that our kids can just go down and be lost.\n\nI think for us, as parents, we need to be vigilant in praying for them. We need to be vigilant on our knees\u2014not being distracted by everything else, because it does draw us away\u2014to beg God for the sake of our kids: for their purity, for their wellbeing, for their spouses for the future. God <em>hears<\/em> those prayers.\n\nI\u2019m thinking of Ephesians 5, where Paul is saying in verse 1: \u201cTherefore, be imitators of God, as beloved children, and walk in love as Christ loved us and gave Himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not be named among you,\u201d\u2014just even be named among you. So to <em>fight<\/em> for that purity and to fight, on our knees, for our kids\/for ourselves as well. We have to cling to Jesus for these things.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I remember talking to a young man, who purposed, as he was growing up, that he wanted to treat women with respect. As he started dating\/taking women out, he was very circumspect and was very careful not to try to press the boundaries of the relationship, physically, which meant that he wasn\u2019t trying to kiss these girls. We think, \u201cThat\u2019s pretty innocent\u201d; right? He was like, \u201cNo; I\u2019m not going to go out, and on the third date, try to have a goodnight kiss.\u201d\n\nWhat he realized was that most of the girls, growing up in this culture, were thinking, \u201cHe must not like me, because he\u2019s not pressing things.\u201d They were so used to associating, \u201cIf you like me, then you will press the boundaries physically.\u201d The fact that he wasn\u2019t, they were thinking, \u201cYou must not like me.\u201d\n\nHe said: \u201cI had to realize, early on, if I do like a young woman, I need to say to her, \u2018I just need to tell you, I\u2019m going to keep some boundaries here; because I respect you.\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>We had a son that went through that same thing. He was 16-years-old. He had determined in his heart that: \u201cI\u2019m not going to kiss a girl until I know that I\u2019m going to be married to her.\u201d He had mentioned that to someone in high school. Well, that rumor started going around.\n\nI was thinking, \u201cOh, these girls are going to love him!\u201d No! It was the <em>opposite<\/em>; he was made fun of\u2014remember that, Dave?\u2014in high school. It was a <em>rough<\/em> time.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; these girls, even when this young man would say, \u201cI respect you,\u201d what they were hearing was, \u201cYou don\u2019t really like me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; \u201cI\u2019m not attractive to you.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. It\u2019s hard for a young man in this culture to say: \u201cI want to honor God with my body. I want to honor <em>you<\/em> with what a relationship looks like\u201d; because the culture has sent the message so strongly, \u201cThis is what\u2019s normal\u2026\u201d\n\nI don\u2019t envy the young men, who are trying to do this; but I will tell those young men and their parents, \u201cGod will reward and protect.\u201d Your son, who\u2019s now happily married, and in ministry, and has a wife, who is grateful for the fact that he did that. This young man I know is in a similar situation.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would just add to the mom or dad listening: \u201cToday, before you put your son or daughter to bed\u2014your eight-year-old\/your twelve-year-old\u2014have the courage to talk about these things, because they really are longing for someone to talk to them.\u201d I mean, Dave, you\u2019ve given us a book that gives us a guideline for how to do that.\n\nI look back and think it was much easier, for me, to talk about sex, or temptation, or struggle to the congregation in a sermon than it was, in a bedroom, with a 14-year-old son. It was intimate; it was scary. It was much easier to pray and walk out.\n\nBut I just want to say, as now a grandparent: \u201cDon\u2019t miss this opportunity. Somebody\u2019s talking to them about this stuff. They have questions; they don\u2019t know where to go. You bridge that gap or open this up. You become safe, and you can start a conversation that can literally change their life, and your legacy, and their legacy.\u201d\n\nI would just say: \u201cThis is the night. Do it today; don\u2019t wait until tomorrow. Today, step into that fear; have the courage to say, \u2018Okay, we\u2019re going to talk about this,\u2019 and trust God where it goes.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If you think, \u201cI don\u2019t know how to even do that,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>There you go.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014get a copy of Dave\u2019s book, <em>Raising Boys Who Respect Girls<\/em>. Read it, and highlight it, and start to apply some of this stuff.\n\nDave, thank you for writing the book. Thanks for the conversation this morning.\n\n<strong>Dave W.: <\/strong>Hey, guys\u2014thank you. I\u2019ve so enjoyed this. Thank you for the great work all of you are doing.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We have copies of Dave\u2019s book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go online to request a copy of <em>Raising Boys Who Respect Girls<\/em>. Our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Order from us online; or call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number. So again, online, it\u2019s FamilyLifeToday.com; if you\u2019re calling, the number is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d The book, again, is called <em>Raising Boys Who Respect Girls: Upending Locker Room Mentality, Blind Spots, and Unintended Sexism<\/em>.\n\nDavid Robbins, who\u2019s the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, has been sitting in on our conversation today, just listening to what we\u2019ve been talking about. You and your wife, Meg, and Dave Willis and his wife, Ashley\u2014you all have kids about the same age; right?\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>They really are almost exactly the same. He has four boys; I have one girl mixed in. He has four; I have four. He\u2019s been a good friend to process some things with. As I seek to raise my kids to navigate the world we\u2019re in, there are landmines today that I didn\u2019t grow up with.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014everywhere!\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>Yes; I just keep coming back to what I\u2019m convinced parenting boils down to: \u201cDay in and day out, in the everyday-ness of life, it comes down to courageous faith.\u201d\n\nThink about what we\u2019ve been hearing today. Dads, who aren\u2019t even sure that they\u00a0 measure up or are living up to the definition of manhood, are supposed to regularly initiate with our sons to talk about vulnerable issues like sex and pornography. We need to lead our sons in a conversation about God\u2019s Word shaping us when sometimes we probably don\u2019t feel like we\u2019re being that great of a model; it just keeps piling up. We should do all this with the appropriate amount of vulnerability to talk about our own struggles, even our current ones.\n\nFor a lot of us, it\u2019s just a really tall order. You may be thinking about this conversation, going: \u201cMan, this does take remarkable courage.\u201d We don\u2019t have to find some unknown reservoir of courage before we start, because this is where faith enters; it\u2019s courageous faith. Faith reminds us that God can use our conversations with our boys, even if they\u2019re awkward. Faith believes that God uses our brokenness and our struggles to bring fruit in the lives of others, especially our kids. It requires courage and faith to trust God to step out when you aren\u2019t sure you\u2019re up to the task; but God <em>loves<\/em> using us when, in our weakness, we are <em>radically<\/em> dependent upon Him.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong><em>Walk by faith<\/em>: just take the steps; go out there\/do it; and God will go with you and bless your efforts. Thank you, David.\n\nI hope our listeners will be able to join us tomorrow, because we\u2019re going to continue this conversation. Vicki Courtney\u2019s going to be back with us tomorrow to talk about important conversations that parents need to be having with their sons. We\u2019ll continue the dialogue on this and talk with Vicki tomorrow. I hope you can join us.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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should you talk to your son about the dangers of porn? Author Dave Willis recalls his past struggles with porn, and offers dads some valuable insight into broaching this topic with their sons.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-03-25.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We know that, as parents, we want to do all we can to help steer our sons and our daughters away from pornography. Dave Willis says he remembers when it dawned on him the subtle impact that pornography can have in the life of a young man.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I saw this guy at a wedding when I was a young adult. He was off by himself; he was hitting the bar pretty heavily. I watched him as he watched women, and it was the most discouraging and disgusting things that I had seen. Every woman that walked anywhere near him, he would just gawk at her. I watched him, just sad and alone, standing in a corner, objectifying every woman that walked by. It was like the Holy Spirit was tapping me on the shoulder and saying: \u201cThat\u2019s where porn leads. Is that what you want for your life?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, March 25<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. There is an inevitable impact on a man\u2019s life if he\u2019s looking at pornography: it will impact how he views women\/whether he respects women. We\u2019ll talk more with Dave Willis today about how to protect our sons from pornography. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, the conversation we\u2019re having this week about raising sons, who respect girls in the MeToo era, we tend to focus on respect as being one issue: respect means how you treat a young woman in terms of your sexual relationship with her\/your physical relationship with her. Respect is really bigger than that; a woman feels respected when she\u2019s honored in that area, but there\u2019s more to it than that; isn\u2019t there?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think so. I think it has a lot to do with that; but it also has to do with how you treat her and respect her mind, her thoughts, and just being courteous and kind. Every person\/every human wants that.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>She wants to know that she is an equal image-bearer\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that she is valued and esteemed, and that she has a voice and a presence, and is not being disregarded.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>My wife has told me, Bob, the word is \u201ccherish.\u201d I don\u2019t know about every other guy, but I know me; I cherish stuff. I have a few guitars; it\u2019s like, \u201cYou\u2019re not touching those guitars.\u201d I have a motorcycle\u2014it\u2019s easy for a guy to cherish his stuff. I\u2019m an expert on those things: I take care of those things; I <em>talk<\/em> about those things.\n\nIt\u2019s like, \u201cWell, what would my wife feel like if she was cherished?\u2014she was seen?\u2014 she was protected?\u2014she was applauded? I studied her in such a way I knew that she was like an acoustic guitar and needed to be in a humidified room\u2014I\u2019m kidding\u2014but you know what I\u2019m saying? [Laughter] It\u2019s just like, \u201cOh, if she felt, every second of every day, her man was protecting and taking care of her,\u201d\u2014<em>that\u2019s<\/em> what Ann has taught me\u2014\u201cthat\u2019s what a woman longs for.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s not just sexual; it is partly sexual\u2014it\u2019s <em>way<\/em> beyond that\u2014that they would feel <em>valued<\/em> by their men.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think that is true; but also that yes, what you\u2019re saying, Bob, too, is that we\u2019re respected and we\u2019re co-heirs. You know, we\u2019re side by side in this battle together\u2014that we\u2019re seen and we\u2019re valued\u2014all of those things. I like this conversation, where we\u2019re going! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think the reason that we gravitate in the MeToo direction here is because we live in a hyper-sexualized culture\u2014and everything from music videos, to movies, to\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014to video games.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014to what\u2019s going on in culture\u2014is sending a message to boys, saying: \u201cYou should view women as sex objects. You should view women as somebody who is there for your delight and your pleasure.\u201d\n\nAs parents, we need to make sure that we\u2019re sending a countercultural message to our sons.\n\nDave Willis is joining us this week on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; Dave, welcome back.\n\n<strong>Dave W.:<\/strong> Thanks for having me!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dave is a dad\/a husband. He and Ashley live in Texas and are raising their four boys. Dave works with MarriageToday<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> and has written a book called <em>Raising Boys Who Respect Girls<\/em>.\n\nIn the area of respecting them physically, one of the issues in our culture today that every little boy is confronted with, at some point in his growing up, is the issue of pornography and the destructive message that that is sending when it comes to how to respect a young woman.\n\n<strong>Dave W.: <\/strong>Yes, yes; without a doubt. I just kind of came to a place, early on\u2014Ashley and I both\u2014as we were talking about: \u201cWhat does a win look like in parenting?\u201d I\u2019m seeing all these stories in the MeToo era of guys, that I\u2019d looked at and revered from a distance, who were falling in, really, public ways. I said: \u201cYou know, if we raise sons, who are outwardly successful in every way imaginable, and yet they are secretly disrespectful toward women or users of women, then I feel like I would have failed as a father. This is something we have to get right.\u201d\n\nOne of the biggest <em>weapons<\/em> against that message that\u2019s really creating a toxic impact in the minds and hearts of young men is pornography, so that\u2019s kind of the frontline of this conversation. I know that, from the work that Ashley and I do in marriage ministry, seeing how porn is unraveling and causing wedges in so many marriages, both current porn use and baggage from past porn use\u2014and just knowing the world our boys are growing up in, where it is everywhere, and exposure is happening earlier and earlier\u2014that this has to be a big part of the conversation.\n\nI know from personal experience. I was a young man\/I was exposed to porn in early adolescence\u2014probably 14 years old or so\u2014when I really kind of found hard-core pornography. I would wrestle in this terrible cycle of staying away from it for awhile, out of shame, then falling back into it\u2014never following the biblical path of healing; which is to repent, to get accountability, to take action, to not only ask forgiveness from God but to walk the path of healing. I was trying to do what pride says to do; which is, \u201cDeal with it on your own.\u201d\n\nI stayed in <em>bondage<\/em> in that area for a long time, and it created a <em>ton<\/em> of baggage. It really warped my view of women, and of sex, and of myself. I so, so, so want to protect my boys from that and help them see the right path; because I didn\u2019t feel like I could talk to anybody about it when I was in the midst of that. It took a long time for me to come out of that, and damage was done that I want to prevent, not only my boys, but this whole generation of boys from having to walk through.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There was a study you mention in your book, where parents were watching their kids\u2014like was this behind a\/they were behind a two-way mirror?\u2014is that how it worked?\n\n<strong>Dave W.: <\/strong>Yes, it was a two-way mirror deal\u2014sociologists sitting down with kids\u2014just trying to understand the kind of the world they\u2019re growing up in and porn they\u2019ve been exposed to. These parents, on the other side of this two-way mirror, were <em>horrified<\/em>, listening to their kids\u2014boys and girls\u2014talk about the normalization of porn and horrendous aspects of pornography that objectify people in the worst kind of ways\u2014I mean, in ways that aren\u2019t even appropriate to talk about in this setting.\n\nIt was so eye-opening for these parents to say: \u201cMy kids have seen this stuff,\u201d and \u201cThey look at this as entertainment, and they laugh about it with their peers.\u201d These are their kids that they looked at and said: \u201cThese are good kids. These are kids that wouldn\u2019t gravitate toward that kind of thing.\u201d But it was eye-opening for them to see the culture they\u2019re being raised in, the ever-present nature of some of this stuff. It\u2019s the world in which they\u2019re growing up.\n\nA lot of times, parents are unaware of that, or have no idea how to talk about it or how to deal with it, or they\u2019re afraid that having the conversation will create some awkward questions that the parents themselves will have to answer about maybe some of their own past mistakes the parents don\u2019t feel equipped to answer. So we have to have the courage.\n\nI think one of the biggest responsibilities we have, as parents, is to have the courage to <em>lead<\/em> these conversations\u2014even though it might seem awkward at first\/even though it might reveal some parts of our own past that we might prefer to have hidden\u2014but we might need to bring out into the light for the sake of building an honest relationship with our kids, and helping them from repeating some of the same mistakes we might have made. We have to go there; we have to dive into the mess that our kids are living in and help pull them out.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think that this isn\u2019t just a conversation as a one-time conversation; and it doesn\u2019t just have to be with the dad, because we have a lot of moms that are spending more time with sons\u2014or even moms that are raising their sons alone, and their daughters.\n\nI had a conversation with our boys. I think they were eight, six, and three. I remember we were driving and some topic came up; and I said, \u201cHey, boys, have you by chance seen any magazines or pictures that your friends have shown you of naked men and women together?\u201d They were like, \u201cNo!\u201d I said, \u201cWell, there might be a day that you\u2019re with one of your friends and they pull out something in a magazine or online.\u201d They were like: \u201cWhy would anyone want to look at that?! That is so gross!\u201d\n\nI said, \u201cWell, you\u2019re going to come to an age, where you might desire\/you probably will desire, and that\u2019s not wrong to desire that; because God\u2019s given you that desire for your wife in the future. But God made it so that that is for your wife. But I want you to know that that\u2019s something that God doesn\u2019t want you to go into, because it\u2019s going to be around in the future; you\u2019ll probably see it.\u201d\n\nI said, \u201cI want you to know that you can talk to Dad and [me] about it. I don\u2019t want you to feel guilty if you desire to look at that later, as your hormones change.\u201d Of course, the three-year-old\u2019s doing whatever; but I\u2019m really talking to the eight-year-old.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It was interesting\u2014because another day, on the way home from school, probably a year or two later\u2014that oldest son says, \u201cHey, Mom, remember when you said that I might have that desire?\u201d Well, the whole situation did happen, where he was at a home, where that came up. He said, \u201cMom, I really did want to look at that; but I didn\u2019t, because of what you had said.\u201d\n\nI think, as parents, we just need to open the door of conversation so it\u2019s not weird or awkward; and it\u2019s not just a one-time thing.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Here\u2019s the question: \u201cWhen did you say to your sons, \u2018This is something I struggled with\u2019?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014teenage years.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014when they were teens.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, I can tell you the day, with my oldest son; I\u2019ve shared it here before. We found porn on our computer at home. Ann first came to me and said, \u201cIs this you?\u201d I said, \u201cNo.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOh my goodness; it\u2019s one of our boys.\u201d\n\nHe\u2019s given us permission, obviously, to share this. As I sat across from CJ, and we talked about this, I wept and I said: \u201cCJ, here\u2019s why I\u2019m weeping. You have just opened a door to something I\u2019ve opened. This is going to be a battle the rest of your life.\u201d\n\nIt was the beginning of a relationship with him\u2014and I\u2019m not saying it\u2019s perfect\u2014but we can battle this together. Here is at 33, and all three of my sons, we\u2019ve talked about this. We started talking about it when they were 12, 13, 14 years old; and it\u2019s still going on\u2014it\u2019s still something you want to continue to talk through.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Your story\u2019s in your book, Dave.\n\n<strong>Dave W.: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019ve shared it publicly. Do your boys know?\n\n<strong>Dave W.: <\/strong>My two older boys do; they are 14 and 12\u2014that\u2019s been fairly recent.\n\nWe\u2019ve talked to them, from an early age, in age-appropriate ways, about sex; but to get really specific into my porn struggle, that\u2019s been more recent\u2014just to help them in the world they\u2019re navigating, and even to respond to some of the things that I was starting to see pop up in search histories, in YouTube and different places\u2014where I could tell that their minds and curiosities were starting to lead down a road.\n\nThe conversations for us, as it related to sex and respecting women\u2014and Ann, like you said, it\u2019s not just having <em>the talk<\/em>\u2014it\u2019s really the talks, plural\u2014it\u2019s building that bond of conversation and trust that extends on out, like the way you guys have done with your kids, which is really the goal. It\u2019s what I hope for my kids when they\u2019re grown.\n\nOne of the early conversations I remember\u2014I think I share this story in the book\u2014was when our son, Connor, was seven at the time. We were at the barber shop, and they had magazines at the barber shop. I wasn\u2019t really paying attention; because I think, \u201cWell, it\u2019s a safe place,\u201d\u2014right? \u2014it\u2019s <em>Field &amp; Stream<\/em> and that kind of stuff. I look over, and he\u2019s looking at a magazine. I won\u2019t say which one; but it\u2019s a magazine known very specifically for provocative images\u2014not nude images\u2014but very provocative, objectifying images of women. He was looking at this in wonder; and he was like, \u201cOh my goodness; this is amazing!\u201d\n\nI\u2019m like, \u201cWell, buddy, let\u2019s talk about this.\u201d I closed the magazine; and we had a conversation very similar to some of the things you\u2019ve said, about how God put this desire: \u201cIt\u2019s a healthy desire to appreciate a woman\u2019s beauty and be drawn to her; and one day, that\u2019s going to be for your wife. But to just look at a woman that way, it\u2019s really\u2026\u201d\u2014and trying to explain, in age-appropriate ways, the concept of disrespect.\n\nHe said that he got it, so I kind of put the magazine on the bottom of the stack. I went over there, and I look back a few minutes later. He\u2019s holding up the actual <em>Field &amp; Stream<\/em>, but his eyes are really wide again. I walk over there\u2014and my seven-year-old has taken that magazine from the bottom of the stack, put it inside <em>Field &amp; Stream<\/em>\u2014and was looking at it again. I\u2019m like, \u201cBuddy, we just talked about this!\u201d He goes, \u201cI know, but\u2026\u201d\n\nIn moments like that, sometimes you can\u2019t plan for it, you just have to join him in the moment and say, \u201cAlright, here\u2019s God\u2019s plan for these kinds of things.\u201d In an age-appropriate way: \u201cGod made you a boy; it\u2019s a beautiful thing. He made girls; you\u2019re going to appreciate their beauty; but He has a plan for you and your future wife. If we\u2019re just looking at women as just an object to look at, that\u2019s not showing them the respect that they deserve.\u201d\n\nWe have to start, sometimes, earlier than it feels\u2014it\u2019s awkwardly early in the world that we\u2019re in\u2014just because of what our kids are being exposed to.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>How do you negotiate that world that we live in now, as fathers, and as sons, and daughters?\n\n<strong>Dave W.: <\/strong>It requires constant conversation, constant vigilance. The technology\u2014which, again, I\u2019m not demonizing technology\u2014it is a gift that can be used for so much good. Right now, you\u2019re listening to this broadcast because of technology and learning tools to help you in your faith and in your family. But technology is also being used by people that have very, very toxic intent, as it means getting to the hearts of our sons and daughters and polluting their mind with the wrong kinds of imagery.\n\nEven in Texas, where I live, recently there was a news story: the first robot brothel has opened up. That\u2019s technology taking this natural next step in this sinful progression of looking at sex as a commodity and looking at human pleasure as it relates to sex as just a commodity, where we can use one another instead of respecting one another. That\u2019s where porn leads.\n\nI try to start the conversations about porn and sex by helping my sons see where it leads. One of my friends, when I was growing up\u2014his dad had this legendary stash of pornography\u2014that as young teenage boys, everybody wanted to go and sleep over at their house to raid this porn closet, so to speak. I saw this guy at a wedding, when I was a young adult, and he was off by himself. He was hitting the bar pretty heavily. I watched him as he watched women, and it was one of the most discouraging and disgusting things that I had seen. Every woman that walked anywhere near him, he just would gawk at her and give her the up\/down. You could tell, in his mind, he was objectifying and fantasizing about every woman as if she was nothing but an object.\n\nI watched him just sad and alone, standing in a corner, objectifying every woman that walked by. It was like the Holy Spirit was tapping me on the shoulder and saying: \u201cThat\u2019s where porn leads. Is that what you want for your life?\u201d It ostracizes us; it cuts us off from healthy relationships; and one day, you\u2019re just a creepy guy in the corner, that is objectifying every person that walks by, without any meaningful relationships in your life.\n\nPorn gives the <em>illusion<\/em> of intimacy in relationship, which is, in its purest form, something we crave. We all want intimacy in relationships, but porn cheapens all of it\u2014it cheapens it. Someone once said, \u201cThe problem with porn isn\u2019t that it shows too much; it\u2019s that it shows too little.\u201d It shows too little; because it makes us think, \u201cThis is all sex is,\u201d when God created it to\u2014not only be a physical act\u2014but emotional, spiritual, physical happening in this beautiful oneness within the covenant of marriage. To use sex in any way outside of God\u2019s perfect design for it, it always, always causes harm.\n\nAshley teaches the boys that: \u201cIt\u2019s like fire in a fireplace. If the fireplace is marriage and fire is sex\u2014when it stays in the fireplace, it gives warmth, and light, and heat to the whole home\u2014but when you take that same fire, and you put it places it doesn\u2019t belong\u2014you take it outside the protection of that fireplace\u2014it burns the house down; everybody gets hurt. It\u2019s the same with sex.\u201d We have to teach our kids where it leads\u2014not just the instant gratification of the quick pleasure hit\u2014but where that leads if they continue down that path.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Our kids are growing up on a battlefield. There\u2019s a target on their backs, where the enemy of our souls would like to take all of us under\u2014our marriages\/our kids. It\u2019s so deceptive, and it\u2019s so sly; and there\u2019s this slippery slope that our kids can just go down and be lost.\n\nI think for us, as parents, we need to be vigilant in praying for them. We need to be vigilant on our knees\u2014not being distracted by everything else, because it does draw us away\u2014to beg God for the sake of our kids: for their purity, for their wellbeing, for their spouses for the future. God <em>hears<\/em> those prayers.\n\nI\u2019m thinking of Ephesians 5, where Paul is saying in verse 1: \u201cTherefore, be imitators of God, as beloved children, and walk in love as Christ loved us and gave Himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not be named among you,\u201d\u2014just even be named among you. So to <em>fight<\/em> for that purity and to fight, on our knees, for our kids\/for ourselves as well. We have to cling to Jesus for these things.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I remember talking to a young man, who purposed, as he was growing up, that he wanted to treat women with respect. As he started dating\/taking women out, he was very circumspect and was very careful not to try to press the boundaries of the relationship, physically, which meant that he wasn\u2019t trying to kiss these girls. We think, \u201cThat\u2019s pretty innocent\u201d; right? He was like, \u201cNo; I\u2019m not going to go out, and on the third date, try to have a goodnight kiss.\u201d\n\nWhat he realized was that most of the girls, growing up in this culture, were thinking, \u201cHe must not like me, because he\u2019s not pressing things.\u201d They were so used to associating, \u201cIf you like me, then you will press the boundaries physically.\u201d The fact that he wasn\u2019t, they were thinking, \u201cYou must not like me.\u201d\n\nHe said: \u201cI had to realize, early on, if I do like a young woman, I need to say to her, \u2018I just need to tell you, I\u2019m going to keep some boundaries here; because I respect you.\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>We had a son that went through that same thing. He was 16-years-old. He had determined in his heart that: \u201cI\u2019m not going to kiss a girl until I know that I\u2019m going to be married to her.\u201d He had mentioned that to someone in high school. Well, that rumor started going around.\n\nI was thinking, \u201cOh, these girls are going to love him!\u201d No! It was the <em>opposite<\/em>; he was made fun of\u2014remember that, Dave?\u2014in high school. It was a <em>rough<\/em> time.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; these girls, even when this young man would say, \u201cI respect you,\u201d what they were hearing was, \u201cYou don\u2019t really like me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; \u201cI\u2019m not attractive to you.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. It\u2019s hard for a young man in this culture to say: \u201cI want to honor God with my body. I want to honor <em>you<\/em> with what a relationship looks like\u201d; because the culture has sent the message so strongly, \u201cThis is what\u2019s normal\u2026\u201d\n\nI don\u2019t envy the young men, who are trying to do this; but I will tell those young men and their parents, \u201cGod will reward and protect.\u201d Your son, who\u2019s now happily married, and in ministry, and has a wife, who is grateful for the fact that he did that. This young man I know is in a similar situation.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would just add to the mom or dad listening: \u201cToday, before you put your son or daughter to bed\u2014your eight-year-old\/your twelve-year-old\u2014have the courage to talk about these things, because they really are longing for someone to talk to them.\u201d I mean, Dave, you\u2019ve given us a book that gives us a guideline for how to do that.\n\nI look back and think it was much easier, for me, to talk about sex, or temptation, or struggle to the congregation in a sermon than it was, in a bedroom, with a 14-year-old son. It was intimate; it was scary. It was much easier to pray and walk out.\n\nBut I just want to say, as now a grandparent: \u201cDon\u2019t miss this opportunity. Somebody\u2019s talking to them about this stuff. They have questions; they don\u2019t know where to go. You bridge that gap or open this up. You become safe, and you can start a conversation that can literally change their life, and your legacy, and their legacy.\u201d\n\nI would just say: \u201cThis is the night. Do it today; don\u2019t wait until tomorrow. Today, step into that fear; have the courage to say, \u2018Okay, we\u2019re going to talk about this,\u2019 and trust God where it goes.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If you think, \u201cI don\u2019t know how to even do that,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>There you go.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014get a copy of Dave\u2019s book, <em>Raising Boys Who Respect Girls<\/em>. Read it, and highlight it, and start to apply some of this stuff.\n\nDave, thank you for writing the book. Thanks for the conversation this morning.\n\n<strong>Dave W.: <\/strong>Hey, guys\u2014thank you. I\u2019ve so enjoyed this. Thank you for the great work all of you are doing.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We have copies of Dave\u2019s book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go online to request a copy of <em>Raising Boys Who Respect Girls<\/em>. Our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Order from us online; or call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number. So again, online, it\u2019s FamilyLifeToday.com; if you\u2019re calling, the number is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d The book, again, is called <em>Raising Boys Who Respect Girls: Upending Locker Room Mentality, Blind Spots, and Unintended Sexism<\/em>.\n\nDavid Robbins, who\u2019s the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, has been sitting in on our conversation today, just listening to what we\u2019ve been talking about. You and your wife, Meg, and Dave Willis and his wife, Ashley\u2014you all have kids about the same age; right?\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>They really are almost exactly the same. He has four boys; I have one girl mixed in. He has four; I have four. He\u2019s been a good friend to process some things with. As I seek to raise my kids to navigate the world we\u2019re in, there are landmines today that I didn\u2019t grow up with.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014everywhere!\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>Yes; I just keep coming back to what I\u2019m convinced parenting boils down to: \u201cDay in and day out, in the everyday-ness of life, it comes down to courageous faith.\u201d\n\nThink about what we\u2019ve been hearing today. Dads, who aren\u2019t even sure that they\u00a0 measure up or are living up to the definition of manhood, are supposed to regularly initiate with our sons to talk about vulnerable issues like sex and pornography. We need to lead our sons in a conversation about God\u2019s Word shaping us when sometimes we probably don\u2019t feel like we\u2019re being that great of a model; it just keeps piling up. We should do all this with the appropriate amount of vulnerability to talk about our own struggles, even our current ones.\n\nFor a lot of us, it\u2019s just a really tall order. You may be thinking about this conversation, going: \u201cMan, this does take remarkable courage.\u201d We don\u2019t have to find some unknown reservoir of courage before we start, because this is where faith enters; it\u2019s courageous faith. Faith reminds us that God can use our conversations with our boys, even if they\u2019re awkward. Faith believes that God uses our brokenness and our struggles to bring fruit in the lives of others, especially our kids. It requires courage and faith to trust God to step out when you aren\u2019t sure you\u2019re up to the task; but God <em>loves<\/em> using us when, in our weakness, we are <em>radically<\/em> dependent upon Him.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong><em>Walk by faith<\/em>: just take the steps; go out there\/do it; and God will go with you and bless your efforts. Thank you, David.\n\nI hope our listeners will be able to join us tomorrow, because we\u2019re going to continue this conversation. Vicki Courtney\u2019s going to be back with us tomorrow to talk about important conversations that parents need to be having with their sons. We\u2019ll continue the dialogue on this and talk with Vicki tomorrow. I hope you can join us.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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