{"id":305808,"date":"2020-03-05T08:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-03-05T13:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/expect-less-get-more\/"},"modified":"2020-03-05T08:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-03-05T13:00:04","slug":"expect-less-get-more","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/expect-less-get-more\/","title":{"rendered":"Expect Less, Get More"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Guest: Bob Lepine, Dave and Ann Wilson, Gary Chapman, Juli Slattery, Ron Deal | Series: A Panel Answers Your Questions | Does your marriage meet all your expectations? Bob Lepine, Ron Deal, Gary Chapman, Juli Slattery, Charlie and Kirstie Dates, and Dave and Ann Wilson discuss expectations in marriage from the 2020 Love Like You Mean It\u00ae marriage cruise.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tBonus Audio Q&amp;A about sex and intimacy. [MP3 32.3 MB]\u00a0 https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-03-04-bonus.mp3<br \/>\n \tBook now for the Love Like You Mean It\u00ae marriage cruise. https:\/\/www.lovelikeyoumeanitcruise.com\/<br \/>\n \tFind resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<br \/>\n \tHave the FamilyLife Today\u00ae podcast and resources helped you?\u00a0 Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Bob Lepine, Ron Deal, Gary Chapman, Juli Slattery, Charlie and Kirstie Dates, and Dave and Ann Wilson discuss expectations in marriage from the 2020 Love Like You Mean It\u00ae marriage cruise.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-03-05.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:25","filesize":"24.19M","filesize_raw":"25361001","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2908,2901,2862,2831],"tags":[5251],"podcast_series":[8343],"cwp_profile":[3142,3647,3353,3388,3300],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305808","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-forgiveness","category-husbands","category-understanding-differences","category-wives","tag-cruise","podcast_series-a-panel-answers-your-questions","cwp_profile-bob-lepine","cwp_profile-dave-and-ann-wilson","cwp_profile-gary-chapman","cwp_profile-juli-slattery","cwp_profile-ron-deal","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305808\/expect-less-get-more","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305808\/expect-less-get-more","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"nLOKa7o9xG\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/expect-less-get-more\/\">Expect Less, Get More<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/expect-less-get-more\/embed\/#?secret=nLOKa7o9xG\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Expect Less, Get More&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"nLOKa7o9xG\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Bob Lepine, Ron Deal, Gary Chapman, Juli Slattery, Charlie and Kirstie Dates, and Dave and Ann Wilson discuss expectations in marriage from the 2020 Love Like You Mean It\u00ae marriage cruise.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-03-05.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Almost nobody, who\u2019s married, sets out to intentionally pursue an extramarital affair, and yet extramarital affairs still occur. Ron Deal explains how they begin.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>What happens is you have a working relationship that turns into a friendship. One day, somebody kind of does something vaguely flirtatious; and somehow it wasn\u2019t denied, or there was no big message that said, \u201cNo, don\u2019t ever do that again.\u201d A passage of time goes by and then there\u2019s another little thing. This is how an affair starts.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, March 5<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019re joined by a panel of marriage experts today to talk about how we can safeguard our marriage and pursue oneness in our relationship. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition. We\u2019ve been spending time this week giving our listeners a taste of what we experienced a few weeks ago on board the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage cruise. I say a taste, although the buffet has been a little different this week.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think I gained ten pounds on that cruise! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Now we\u2019re working it off.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019m not having ice cream two times a day.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I read that\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Two! We had it like <em>five<\/em>; every time you walk by the soft-serve cone, you just grab one. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I read that verse in the Bible about \u201cI buffet my body,\u201d and I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s what this means,\u201d so I was trying\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s what we do on the cruise. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We had a <em>great<\/em> time. In fact, I just want to remind listeners: \u201cIf you\u2019d like to join us on the 2021 <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise, we\u2019re about 60 percent sold out already. We expect we\u2019re going to sell out in the next 30-60 days.\u201d If you register between now and March 16\u2014we\u2019re calling this Madness \u201921; it\u2019s our own March Madness\u2014so go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You can register, save $300 per couple off your stateroom for next year; that\u2019s good until March 16. Or call 1-800-FL-TODAY if you have any questions or if you\u2019d like to reserve your spot. Again, our website: FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word ,\u201cTODAY,\u201d to join us on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise.\n\nOne of the things we did this year was we got a panel of speakers together: the three of us; Ron Deal, who gives leadership to FamilyLife Blended<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; Dr. Juli Slattery, who\u2019s an author and a speaker; Dr. Gary Chapman, who wrote <em>The Five Love Languages<\/em>, spoke on board the cruise about the language of apology; Dr. Dates and his wife, Kirstie, were also speakers on board the cruise, and they joined us on this panel.\n\nWe had cruisers who submitted questions to us, using their app. We tackled some of those hard questions in a panel discussion. Today, we thought you should hear some of the questions. They\u2019re <em>challenging<\/em> questions; but having that panel there, we got some <em>great<\/em> answers.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We got some great answers, and I think everybody was super real and transparent. You got a look into their life; but the wisdom\u2014I learned as much as anybody on the cruise.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I felt like that, too. These guys were <em>amazing<\/em>. I appreciated them being so authentic and using their wisdom and their expertise to help us.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let\u2019s go back to the panel and hear some more of the questions and answers from the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise.\n\n[Panel Discussion Aboard the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> Marriage Cruise]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Somebody said: \u201cMy husband puts me down regularly. I don\u2019t think he realizes it. How do I bring that up? How do I help him?\u201d What\u2019s your counsel here?\n\n<strong>Gary: <\/strong>Well, I think if you start criticizing him for the way he criticizes you, it\u2019s a downward spiral. I think you look for positive things about him; you begin to affirm him in the positive things and speak his love language, for sure. Then, over three or four months of that, you can start making requests of him. He\u2019s far more likely to respond to it in a positive way towards you.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ann, do you ever, in a situation like that, just say, \u201cWe need to have a talk,\u201d and just call it like it is?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, I did this very poorly for many, many years; because I would say things like, \u201cAre you saying I\u2019m so stupid?!\u201d and I would just get angry. I think, instead of saying <em>that<\/em> and being so defensive, I would tell Dave in a calm manner\u2014like: \u201cThis is what it makes me feel when you say that,\u201d or \u201cWhen you\u2019re talking like that, this is how I\u2019m feeling.\u201d Then he could hear me; but when I respond with such a rough and terrible tone, he\u2019s not receiving anything.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Here\u2019s what really happened. [Laughter] She said that often\u2014that I\u2019m harsh. She\u2019d look at me and say, \u201cYou can\u2019t hear that?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m not harsh!\u201d\u2014just like that! I couldn\u2019t see it.\n\nHere\u2019s the other thing I would say to do: I know what you\u2019re going to say, \u201cPray.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I did pray; and I said, \u201cGod, he doesn\u2019t see it, and I don\u2019t know how to communicate it anymore.\u201d So, you guys, this one day\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I was going to say this, but go ahead.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>He\u2019s videoing our kids. He gets really angry and upset, and he\u2019s talking to me in the same tone\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014long time ago. [Laughter] That <em>never<\/em> happens anymore! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So that goes on. I\u2019m like, \u201cYou\u201d\u2014and I said, \u201cYou\u2019re doing it right now!\u201d He goes, \u201cWhatever!\u201d\n\nOur family comes in to watch this video that he made of the kids\u2014and he <em>never<\/em> turned off the camera\u2014so he <em>heard<\/em> himself talking like this <em>on video<\/em>. My whole family is in the room; and they all look at him like, \u201cDude!\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That really happened; and the whole family looked at me like, \u201cYou\u2019re a jerk!\u201d I was looking at it, going, \u201cYou\u2019re a jerk\u201d; because I was a jerk. I saw it in living colors\u2014like: \u201cEverything she\u2019s been saying all these years was true.\u201d\n\nI\u2019m just telling you\u2014if your wife\/if your husband\u2019s been speaking the truth, listen! We\u2019re so defensive and we\u2019re so selfish, we can\u2019t see it; it\u2019s probably true. Then you have to say, \u201cOkay, God; change me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If your husband is being harsh, get your camera out and shoot a video?\u2014is that what you\u2019re saying? [Laughter] \u201cWait! Do that again, just so I have photographic evidence here.\u201d\n\nThe opposite side of that\u2014somebody said: \u201cHow do I <em>esteem<\/em> my wife? What does it <em>look<\/em> like? Where is the right place to do this?\u201d\n\nGary, as I read that question, I thought: \u201cIt really depends on what her love language is; because if I were to publicly esteem my wife, she might feel embarrassed by that. She might need to be more privately esteemed than publicly esteemed. We need to be students of one another to know how to do this\u201d; don\u2019t we?\n\n<strong>Gary: <\/strong>Yes; I think you begin by discovering each other\u2019s love language, and speak that love language fluently. Then I think, also, periodically you ask questions: \u201cHow could I be a better husband?\u201d \u201cWhat could I do that would make you feel better?\u201d \u201cWhat could I do that would enrich your life?\u201d I mean, they\u2019re the expert on themselves. You ask the questions, they\u2019ll give you answers. Now you have information on <em>how<\/em> to do it.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Juli, what has your husband done that esteems you?\n\n<strong>Juli: <\/strong>You know, it\u2019s interesting that this man used the word, \u201cesteem\u201d; because I don\u2019t think any woman is like, \u201cI want my husband to esteem me,\u201d\u2014like that\u2019s a man-thing. We really want to feel cherished and valued, so it\u2019s slightly different. It\u2019s not always just, \u201cYou\u2019re good at this,\u201d and that sort of thing, which is, I think, more a man\u2019s language.\n\nMy husband appreciates me. He does so many things to let me know that he loves me. Every night when I make dinner, he\u2019ll thank me like four times: \u201cThank you so much for making dinner!\u201d I\u2019ll be like, \u201cOh, sure; it\u2019s nothing.\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cWell, you made it!\u201d Just those little things to let me know that he sees me, that he loves me, he values me. Over time, he\u2019s learned love languages that pour into that tank.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Kirstie, how does Charlie cherish you?\n\n<strong>Kirstie: <\/strong>Well, he\u2019s a talker.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Charlie, take notes here.\n\n<strong>Charlie: <\/strong>Alright. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Kirstie: <\/strong>He\u2019s a talker. While I don\u2019t need to be publicly affirmed, I do know that that is one of my primary love languages. Just having those talks privately, in the areas that he knows that I need encouragement, is one way he does that.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>He\u2019s shooting video!\n\n<strong>Charlie: <\/strong>\u201cNote to self!\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>He\u2019s shooting video of his wife, giving this answer, and pointing! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>And that\u2019s note-to-self, right there. That\u2019s <em>really<\/em> a student. I\u2019ll remember this later, and what a nice gift for all of us to be able to do.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would just add\u2014I know we know this, but I would <em>never<\/em> underestimate Proverbs 18:21. It is <em>so<\/em> true that the power of life and death is in our tongue\/in our words. Whether it\u2019s your love language or not, every person lights up when somebody speaks life.\n\nI tell you\u2014this woman speaks life to me. It\u2019s unbelievable. She didn\u2019t used to; but she has for the last 25 years, and it\u2019s unbelievable. You\u2019re like: \u201cI want to come home to that. I want to <em>run<\/em> home to that,\u201d whether it\u2019s wife to husband or husband to wife.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Let me just connect our last two thoughts: \u201cHow do you approach somebody with something that is not going well in the relationship?\u201d and \u201cHow do you, perhaps, pour into them in the same moment?\u201d\n\nI think there\u2019s a lot of wisdom in saying, \u201cYou matter to me; and because I want more of our \u2018us-ness,\u2019 I need to tell you about something you do that really hurts.\u201d You lead with: \u201cBecause you matter\u2026\u201d \u201cBecause you\u2019re valuable to me\u2026\u201d \u201cBecause you\u2019re important to me\u2026\u201d \u201cBecause I am committed to you\u2026\u201d \/ \u201c\u2026that\u2019s why I need to point this out to you, because it\u2019s getting in the way of our \u2018us-ness.\u2019\u201d\n\nI think leading with that sort of, \u201cMy heart and intent in bringing this to your attention\u201d\u2014this problem\u2014\u201cis so we can be closer.\u201d That\u2019s the point that you bring anything up; but often, we just skip over that and we get right to, \u201cYou\u2019re a jerk.\u201d Now, criticism meets criticism, like Gary said, and it spins in the wrong direction.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If you do that gently, lovingly, kindly: \u201cI love you; I love us. I want us to grow. Here\u2019s something\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>No guarantees.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If that person responds defensively and says: \u201cSo you\u2019re saying I\u2019m the problem? I can point out things about you that you\u2019re doing wrong,\u201d and now we\u2019re into conflict; and you just kind of back off. What do you do in that moment?\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u201cBob, I can tell what I just said to you kind of taps something. Do you mind telling me what that is?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cI\u2019m not talking to you about this; okay?!\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Well, that\u2019s what I would do with my spouse! \u201cWhoa; your defensiveness\u2014I\u2019m not sure what that is. Do you mind telling me what just happened in you?\u201d\u2014right? I shift from what I need you to hear to what you just experienced when I brought this to your attention. Maybe, just maybe, they\u2019ll go: \u201cI don\u2019t know what that is. I don\u2019t have any idea what that is.\u201d\n\n\u201cI don\u2019t know. I\u2019m just trying to connect us a little bit better. Sorry it tapped into something. Can we sit with that a minute?\u201d What you\u2019re trying to get at is: \u201cWhat is the thing going on in the <em>other<\/em> person that prevents them from <em>hearing<\/em> this problem for you?\u201d There are layers, and you just have to shave off layers.\n\nWhen you find yourself kind of stuck in something\u2014there\u2019s no one thing: \u201cSay this, and everything\u2019s better,\u201d\u2014we have to slow. We have to listen; we have to calm; we have to try to look inward; we have to try to get humble: \u201cGod, show me what this thing is in me that makes me rise up.\u201d Ultimately, we have to try to die to ourselves as we help each other figure that out.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There is something about the fact that conflict can\u2019t sustain itself over a long time if <em>one<\/em> person is remaining gentle, and humble, and patient with the other one. If you\u2019re angry, and your spouse is calm and gentle, it\u2019s hard to keep that energy going. The Bible says, \u201cA gentle answer turns away wrath.\u201d If we can do that\u2014if we can maintain the emotional composure in that moment\u2014it can maybe help drain some of the negative emotional energy out and get us back to where we can have conversation.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I love what\u2014you know, when you think about: when one person escalates, if the other escalates, you\u2019re in conflict; but if somebody de-escalates\u2014couples ask us all the time\u2014because we talk about that in <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, that somebody has to de-escalate\u2014they say, \u201cWell, who should do that?\u201d\n\nHere\u2019s the answer: \u201cWhoever\u2019s most mature, make the first move,\u201d which is like\u2014that\u2019s Emerson Eggerichs in <em>Love and Respect<\/em>\u2014but it\u2019s like, \u201cWhoa!\u201d\u2014because you\u2019re thinking they should; but no, <em>you<\/em> make the move.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right; Charlie, what were you going to say?\n\n<strong>Charlie: <\/strong>Something that we\u2019ve\/I\u2019ve tried to practice\u2014I\u2019m certainly not great at it\u2014is the idea that uncommunicated expectation is premeditated conflict.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s good.\n\n<strong>Charlie: <\/strong>Part of, when I sense conflict coming, is to say, \u201cWell, this is what I expect\u2026\u201d\u2014try to get Kirstie to communicate what she\u2019s expecting\u2014because clearly, I missed it. She has something she\u2019s looking for that didn\u2019t register on my radar. If I can get her to communicate those expectations, and if I can communicate my own, then hopefully we can avoid some of that conflict.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; one of the questions that came in was: \u201cWhat do you do to try to resolve conflict and forgive your spouse if he or she never, never apologizes?\u2014never says, \u2018I\u2019m sorry; I was wrong,\u2019 but is always defensive.\u201d Juli?\n\n<strong>Juli: <\/strong>Well, I think part of it is realizing that forgiveness is first an attitude of the heart before God; and forgiveness is the determination that \u201cI\u2019m not going to punish my spouse for doing this.\u201d Forgiveness isn\u2019t always just this two-way street, where, \u201cI can\u2019t forgive you unless you ask\u201d; we have to have a heart toward God that says, \u201cI\u2019m not going to hold that against them.\u201d\n\nI think there are spouses who, because of the way they grew up, the words, \u201cI\u2019m sorry, will you forgive me?\u201d they don\u2019t know how to say those words; because to them it means: \u201cI\u2019m admitting that I\u2019m a failure; I\u2019m all bad, and those words are too threatening.\u201d\n\nBut often, if you have a spouse that has difficulty or can\u2019t even say those words, they do other things to tell you that they\u2019re sorry: they\u2019re kind to you\u2014these other love languages\u2014they buy you flowers; they do acts of service. They may work <em>around<\/em> saying, \u201cI\u2019m sorry,\u201d or taking responsibility; so work from there.\n\nIt\u2019s the two things of your attitude towards the Lord, in terms of: \u201cI\u2019m not going to hold a grudge. I\u2019m going to return even a blessing for a curse\u201d; and then, second of all, recognizing the ways that your spouse does apologize. I think you [Gary] wrote a book called <em>The Five Languages of Apology<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Gary: <\/strong>Yes, the new title is <em>When Sorry Isn\u2019t Enough<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ann, you would say, \u201cPray in this situation.\u201d I mean, if you\u2019re in this, and it\u2019s frustrating, rather than confronting first, pray first; right?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, I think that that\u2019s one of the <em>biggest<\/em> lessons that God taught me. Instead of approaching Dave first and confronting him, I felt like God was saying, \u201cCome to Me first and ask certain questions, like: \u2018Father, what should I say?\u2019 \u2018Should I say anything?\u2019 and \u2018When should I say it?\u2019\u201d If we can have the self-discipline to go to our Father first\u2014who\u2019s waiting for us, who wants to speak to us\u2014I think that always has <em>great<\/em> benefit.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A lot of the questions we received were about what I would call emotional intimacy\u2014about just how we relate to one another and about some of the challenges that we experience. Somebody wrote in and said, \u201cCan you help us understand jealousy and the difference between a healthy\u201d\u2014because there\u2019s a healthy jealousy in marriage \u2014\u201cand an unhealthy jealousy?\u201d Juli, do you have thoughts on that?\n\n<strong>Juli: <\/strong>Yes, I think there is something that you have to realize: \u201cIt is healthy to be jealous in marriage, and it\u2019s really the only relationship on planet earth where it\u2019s healthy to be jealous.\u201d I don\u2019t want another woman flirting with my husband; and if I were to be okay with that, there\u2019s something wrong with me. It\u2019s a relationship where there\u2019s a sense of, \u201cWe have given ourselves to each other exclusively.\u201d It\u2019s a metaphor of God, and He\u2019s a jealous God. The Scriptures say He\u2019s jealous for us.\n\nSo there is a healthy aspect of jealousy, but that is not based in fear. Anytime your jealousy is because of fear, we know that God doesn\u2019t give us a spirit of fear. If my healthy jealousy for my husband is that\u2014he belongs to me; I love him; it\u2019s my privilege to do life with him\u2014and I\u2019m jealous for that, that\u2019s healthy.\n\nAs soon as it becomes: \u201cI\u2019m afraid he\u2019s going to go off with somebody else,\u201d or I\u2019m being triggered by something that happened in the past, and I become possessive or paranoid,\u201d that is not from the Lord; and that\u2019s something that needs to be addressed.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So, Juli, what happens if you have a spouse that, you know, they have lunch with a person of the opposite sex, or they\u2019re interacting on texting, or\u2014let\u2019s say the wife, in this instance, gets jealous. He says: \u201cStop being jealous. It\u2019s unfounded. There\u2019s nothing to worry about.\u201d\n\n<strong>Juli: <\/strong>I think there are two sides to that. I think, from one perspective, I would want to know from that wife: \u201cWhere\u2019s that coming from? Is there evidence of this that concerns you? Has he, in the past, crossed some lines with coworkers?\u201d\u2014or even something from your past, that doesn\u2019t relate to him, that might be fear-based.\n\nBut the other side of that is, as a loving husband\u2014and as a loving wife, if you\u2019re in the other situation\u2014be sensitive to that. Your heart\u2019s desire should be: \u201cI want my wife to trust me; and whatever it takes for her to trust me, wherever that\u2019s coming from, I\u2019ll be like: \u2018Yes, if that makes you feel better, I will not have lunch with a coworker, even if it\u2019s forever, until you really have a sense that: \u201cI\u2019m wholly devoted to you.\u201d\u2019\u201d That\u2019s telling you, as a husband, that your wife needs some reassurance that your eyes are on her, your heart is for her, and that you\u2019re committed to faithfulness.\n\n<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Let\u2019s talk about the slippery slope for a minute. I know we had some questions\u2014at least, I think we probably did\u2014nearly every time we do this, there are questions about betrayal.\n\nYou know, the slippery slope is a very real thing. Nobody wakes up one day and says, \u201cI think I\u2019m going to have sex with my coworker in the office.\u201d No, that\u2019s not what happens. What happens is you have a working relationship that turns into a friendship. One day, somebody kind of does something vaguely flirtatious; and somehow, it wasn\u2019t denied or there was no big message that said, \u201cNo, don\u2019t ever do that again.\u201d A passage of time goes by, then there\u2019s another little thing; and this time, it\u2019s reciprocated on the other\u2014this is how an affair starts.\n\nWhen we say: \u201cI have to manage those boundaries at every step of the\u2014I have to back <em>way up<\/em> and try to prevent even the appearance of evil in that case, or even somebody wondering.\u201d No, if I maintain the boundaries <em>way up there<\/em>, then it prevents anything from happening\u2014a mishap; an unintended whatever; or even the suspicion or worry; the fear, as Juli said\u2014that there might be something going on in a relationship. Managing boundaries is very, very important; and it is a part of <em>faithfulness<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me ask the two women here. I was in the office the other day and a coworker\u2014I noticed her hair was different\u2014I said: \u201cYou did something different with your hair. It looks really nice.\u201d Then I thought, \u201cShould I have said that to somebody who\u2019s not my wife?\u201d Am I just freaking out, or\u2014\n\n<strong>Juli: <\/strong>I think we live in a culture today that is very difficult for men <em>and<\/em> women. With the MeToo movement, there have been things brought out into the light that needed to be brought into the light\/that needed to be spoken; but it also is creating this dynamic, where I think really wonderful men are afraid to even approach a woman to say something kind like that\u2014especially if you\u2019re in ministry: you\u2019re in a pastoral role or you\u2019re in leadership somewhere. I really empathize with that tension.\n\nBut I think people know your character. Bob, I\u2019ve worked around you long enough to know your character\u2014that you\u2019re just being sweet and kind. Women know when there\u2019s a creepy guy, that\u2019s looking at us weird, that\u2019s saying inappropriate things that doesn\u2019t have healthy boundaries. You have to know your heart; you also have to be sensitive to where a woman\u2019s coming from and really ask the Lord for discernment. There are women that have been violated in different ways in the past that you need to protect those boundaries much more, because they\u2019re just more vulnerable. This is where we need brothers and sisters in Christ to really help each other navigate some of these difficult waters.\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, again, we\u2019ve been listening to the wisdom of Dr. Gary Chapman, and\n\nDr. Juli Slattery, Ron Deal, Dr. Charlie Dates and his wife, Kirstie.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014and Bob Lepine!\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014and Bob Lepine.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and Dave and Ann Wilson. We were part of a panel together on board the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise, here a few weeks ago, and got some great questions. In fact, we got a lot of questions about a subject we didn\u2019t tackle, here on the radio\u2014a lot of questions about romance, and intimacy, and sex in marriage.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Were you surprised how many questions came in about that topic?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I wasn\u2019t, because where can you safely ask those questions and get biblical answers?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s when many wives came up to me and said: \u201cThank you. We don\u2019t know where to go with those questions.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right; that portion of the dialogue is available. We thought rather than play that on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, we\u2019d make that audio file available as a podcast. You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, and download about 30 minutes\u2019 worth of questions and answers on romance, and sex, and intimacy.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>There\u2019s some <em>good<\/em> stuff in there.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014and it\u2019s from a biblical perspective. I think that\u2019s important.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>People were asking very real questions\u2014I\u2019ll put it that way. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com if you\u2019d like to download the Q&amp;A on sex and intimacy from the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise.\n\nIf you\u2019d like more information about the 2021 cruise, you can find it online as well. We\u2019re about 60 percent sold out for next year. We expect it will sell out in the next 30-60 days. If you\u2019ve always wanted to do this, maybe this is a special year\u2014an anniversary year coming up for you\/a special occasion\u2014book your stateroom now so that you don\u2019t call later and find it\u2019s sold out.\n\nIf you book before March 16, you\u2019ll save $300 per couple off your stateroom. This is the best offer we make all year long; we really want <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners to join us if you can. To get more information, go to FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to register at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Reserve your stateroom; call 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> radio program that we recorded on board the cruise. We had a small audience with us; and we talked to author, Jefferson Bethke, who\u2019s written a book about hustle and hurry\u2014about how busy we all are and how we deal with that. He joins us tomorrow, and we\u2019ll talk about how we slow things down a little bit in our lives. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineers today; and I say engineers because Keith Lynch, and James Youngblood, and Justin Adams were all involved with today\u2019s program. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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