{"id":305793,"date":"2020-02-28T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-02-28T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/letting-go-and-moving-forward\/"},"modified":"2020-02-28T06:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-02-28T11:00:04","slug":"letting-go-and-moving-forward","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/letting-go-and-moving-forward\/","title":{"rendered":"Letting Go and Moving Forward"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Author Jill Savage talks frankly about the challenges she&#8217;s faced in the empty nest, including finding out that her son is gay. While they disagree with his current lifestyle, they continue to love him.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-02-28.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:10","filesize":"23.96M","filesize_raw":"25125768","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2913,2860,2896],"tags":[4103],"podcast_series":[8342],"cwp_profile":[3125],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305793","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-empty-nest-and-midlife","category-hardship-and-suffering","category-lgbt","tag-empty-nest","podcast_series-empty-nest-full-life","cwp_profile-jill-savage","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305793\/letting-go-and-moving-forward","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305793\/letting-go-and-moving-forward","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"uRxx9EOiRb\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/letting-go-and-moving-forward\/\">Letting Go and Moving Forward<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/letting-go-and-moving-forward\/embed\/#?secret=uRxx9EOiRb\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Letting Go and Moving Forward&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"uRxx9EOiRb\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-02-28.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-02-28.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Mark and Jill Savage will never forget a phone call they received from their adult son, Evan.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> He had been leading worship for this mission trip. He came back; and he called us one Sunday afternoon\u2014just shared his heart, broke down, cried: \u201cThis is what I\u2019m struggling with; this has never stopped,\u201d\u2014I mean, just bawled, and bawled, and bawled.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, February 28<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. How would you respond, as a parent, if your son called you to tell you he was gay? We\u2019ll talk with Jill Savage about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019re talking this week about the empty nest years: getting ready for them, entering into them, having the right perspective on what those years are. As we\u2019ve said, those can be challenging steps to take; that can be a challenging time of life for a marriage, for a family, for you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen, on top of the empty nest, you\u2019re also dealing with other family-related issues, that just compounds the challenge. It\u2019s one thing if you go through the empty nest, and it\u2019s all you\u2019re dealing with; but if you\u2019re dealing with other stuff, it can be pretty tough for folks to make this transition into this stage of life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJill Savage is joining us this week. Jill, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve written a book on the empty nest called <em>Empty Nest, Full Life: Discovering God\u2019s Best for Your Next<\/em>, where you talk about letting go of what you need to let go of and about embracing and holding onto what God has for you, going forward. You\u2019ve already shared, this week, that as you went through the empty nest years and your transition into that, you dealt with the news that your husband had been unfaithful. You spent years wondering if your marriage was going to be able to be restored. By God\u2019s grace, it was\u2014[He] did an amazing work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What we haven\u2019t talked about is you had some parenting challenges with your son, Evan. Again, he said it\u2019s okay for mom to talk about this; he\u2019s good with what we\u2019re going to talk about here today. Tell us when you started to be concerned about Evan and what was going on in his heart and his life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; in fact, he helped me craft his story in the book; because Evan is our number two\/second oldest and incredible musician\u2014just an incredible musician\u2014served as a worship leader for years. If there\u2019s anything in the empty nest I\u2019ve missed, it is my children\u2019s music. Evan was the one who has carried that music into his adult years, as well as a songwriter and singer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe married a beautiful young woman. They were married for four years; then they divorced. Shortly thereafter, Evan communicated to us that he was gay. That was not what I thought my parenting years were going to look like; that was not what I thought our story was going to be. That was not what I expected life to be like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You, at that point, started to go back and look at adolescence and go: \u201cDid we miss something here? Was there something going on here? What\u2019s the story?\u201d How did you dissect all of that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes, we did; because we had had a situation, right when the internet came out. This was before people put any type of a screen on their internet or something to protect you from being able to go all kinds of places. We had discovered that he\u2019d been in some places that he shouldn\u2019t have been, and they were gay websites. That was the first clue that we were like: \u201cWait a minute. What is going on here?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe got him in counseling. Six months later, the counselor was like: \u201cI don\u2019t think this is really an issue. I think it was curiosity.\u201d At that point, he agreed with that; but he will now tell us that he kind of went underground with his struggles. We\u2019d check in every once in awhile, but he wouldn\u2019t communicate that there were any issues there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Jill, can you go back a little bit to that conversation with him when you found this on the internet. How did you talk to him about that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; I remember, of course, we were stunned. No parent prepares\/thinks that they\u2019re going to have those; and yet, every parent has to\u2014maybe not about that issue\u2014but other issues. Of course, he downplayed it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you suggest counseling?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> I think we did at that point or said, \u201cMaybe we should dig into this.\u201d He was open; I don\u2019t remember him dragging his feet on that and being unwilling to go. We chose a counselor that specialized in that. But again, at the end of that six months, or whatever, he was like, \u201cI just don\u2019t think this is an issue.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And high school\u2014he dated girls.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; he actually didn\u2019t date a lot; he didn\u2019t. He had <em>lots<\/em> of girlfriends. He always went to the Prom, and he always had a date for those kinds of things. But he didn\u2019t have anybody really special. When he went off to college and came back, that\u2019s when he began to date his wife. Certainly, in our minds, we\u2019re thinking, \u201cOkay; things really are behind us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; she obviously thought the same thing. Was she aware that this had been part of his past?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Not that I\u2019m aware of.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; four years in, you get news that they\u2019re going through a divorce.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> We know things have been hard for them; we know about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That in and of itself\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u2014is really hard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill: <\/strong>It\u2019s really hard. No mom or dad wants their kids to go through a divorce. My heart really broke for them\u2014for both of them\u2014I hated that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When did you understand that it was not just a divorce but that this was a part of Evan\u2019s life? Did he\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> He actually had the conversation with us before he had it with his wife. He had just come back from a mission trip. He had been leading worship in Turkey for this mission trip. He came back, and he was just weighed heavily; this was all weighing on him. He called us one Sunday afternoon\u2014just absolutely, just shared his heart, broke down, cried: \u201cThis is what I\u2019m struggling with. This has never stopped,\u201d\u2014I mean, just bawled, and bawled, and bawled, and bawled, and bawled.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe was two-and-a-half hours away from us. My momma heart just wanted to hold him and let him cry. At the same time, I\u2019m dealing with the reality of what he\u2019s telling us. We sat\u2014my husband, our son, and I\u2014sat on the phone for probably three hours, crying for probably two of those hours. I mean, it was <em>heart-wrenching<\/em>. Of course, we said, \u201cYou have got to talk to your wife.\u201d That was really difficult for him to wrap his brain around, but he knew he had to. He did very shortly thereafter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Was he at a point, where\u2014he knew he was struggling with this\u2014was he at a point, where he was thinking, \u201cI\u2019m going to surrender to it\u201d; or was he at a point, where he was thinking, \u201cI\u2019m going to keep fighting this\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> I think, at that point, there was a little bit more surrender in it. I thought\/I really thought, initially, he was more for the fight. I thought: \u201cTheir marriage can still make it! They can get to the other side of it!\u201d But that wasn\u2019t where they ended up going. There were a lot of layers of coming to grips with where things were at and dealing with the reality of what was in front of our eyes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt this point, that has\u2014we are now years down the road. The choices that Evan has made in his life are choices that we disagree with. We don\u2019t feel like they\u2019re God\u2019s best for him, but we have certainly learned how to love even in the midst of disagreeing. That\u2019s been really important. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the reasons Evan really wants us to talk about his story\u2014and he was willing to tell it in the book\u2014he has said\/so many times, he\u2019s said: \u201cYou guys don\u2019t understand; you don\u2019t understand that you don\u2019t agree with me, but you love me. You have no idea how many of my gay friends don\u2019t have that.\u201d That was my heart in sharing it in the <em>Empty Nest, Full Life<\/em> book; because regardless of whether it is this issue or other issues, our kids are going to blaze trails, some of which we agree with, and some of which we don\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of the things you write is: \u201cLet go of your expectations of their priorities and their values.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand their values.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, how hard was that?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> <em>Really<\/em> hard. It is; it is. It could be\u2014I mean, we\u2019re talking here about a homosexual lifestyle; but it could be all kinds of things that they\u2019re choosing to be a part of, and you disagree. What do we do? I think, oftentimes, we believe that, if I <em>accept<\/em> my child\u2019s reality, then it\u2019s <em>agreeing with<\/em>. I think that\u2019s what keeps us from loving. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is not what we have found. Our son knows where we stand on <em>that<\/em> particular issue; but he also knows he\u2019s loved, and that he is a part of our family, no matter what. I think that our kids, who are walking in ways that are outside of God\u2019s plan for their life\u2014they\u2019re making choices that we disagree with or that we don\u2019t feel are best for them\u2014they still need to know that they\u2019re a part of our family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> A lot of parents\u2014you know this, you\u2019ve faced issues like this\u2014if your daughter\u2019s living with her boyfriend, and it\u2019s Christmas time, and she wants to bring the boyfriend home for Christmas\u2014if your son\u2019s in a gay lifestyle, he wants to bring his friend over for Christmas\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Awful hard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014or he sends you a wedding invitation. You haven\u2019t faced <em>that<\/em> yet. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> We haven\u2019t; no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Have you talked about what you\u2019d do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> You know, we have, to some degree; and yet, you also don\u2019t spend too much time going: \u201cOkay; what if\u2026\u201d \u201cWhat if\u2026\u201d \u201cWhat if\u2026\u201d We try to live what\u2019s right in front of us; it\u2019s really difficult. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other piece you put in there is\u2014you go, \u201cWould I go to a wedding of somebody else\u2019s kid that is living outside of God\u2019s plan?\u201d I mean, I\u2019m sure most of us have!\u2014right? I think that that really challenges me in the love department; it <em>really<\/em> challenges me. That has been the place, where I feel that God has grown me the most. I don\u2019t think\u2014in fact, I know\u2014that my son doesn\u2019t confuse my love with believing that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that this is not God\u2019s best for him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Correct. He knows that. He said it himself: \u201cYou don\u2019t agree with me, but you love me,\u201d\u2014so that\u2019s clear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019re Jill Savage; you\u2019ve written books on marriage and parenting; you\u2019ve done conferences\u201420 years of <em>Hearts at Home<\/em> conferences\u2014helping people get biblically-oriented around this. In the back of my mind, there would, at least, be this little whisper of: \u201cWait a sec.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u201cWhat do people think?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019d have this conversation with God\u2014like: \u201cWhy am I getting this? I put in my dues. Shouldn\u2019t I get a little\u2014kind of a pass on these hard issues?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> You know, I think my heart has been protected against that. No, I honestly haven\u2019t; because \u201cWhy not me? Why not any of us? This world is a <em>messy<\/em> place; it is difficult.\u201d My husband was reading a book, not too long ago; the statement in it was: \u201cLife is \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t95 percent hard.\u201d Honestly, for whatever reason, I\u2019m a bit of a realist, so I think I\u2019ve known that. There has not been a \u201cWhy me?\u201d; there\u2019s certainly been an \u201cI\u2019m tired. Lord, I\u2019m really, really tired.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Jill, the thing that I\u2019m so inspired about is how you stayed in the game. You have followed Jesus. You haven\u2019t let life\u2019s circumstances, tragedies, or hardships take you out. So often, I think somebody would be like, \u201cI can\u2019t do this anymore!\u201d The picture that I have of you, as we\u2019ve been talking, is the picture of you with your Bible on the pillow. That has obviously been your stronghold, and your life, and your sustenance. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; my life verse is Philippians 4:13: \u201cI can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.\u201d I have had to carry that on. That\u2019s had to be, literally, a physical mantra that I have had to say over and over again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We ought to say the context for that verse is Paul talking about the secret of contentment; He\u2019s talking about, \u201cI\u2019ve learned how to be content in want and in plenty.\u201d The \u201call things that we can do\u201d is we can remain contented if we keep anchored to Christ, whatever our circumstances are. You\u2019ve continued to stay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u2014a bit like Job sometimes. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut going back to God\u2019s Word\u2014I remember, during my husband\u2019s infidelity, and that dark season, God took me to Romans 12:9-21. It\u2019s the verses that talk about love and how love overcomes evil. I\u2019ll tell you what\u2014that\u2019s been a big part of my sustenance\u2014is God\u2019s Word. That became my marching orders; I would read Romans 12:9-21 every single day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt one point, my husband asked me, \u201cI don\u2019t understand how you have treated me in such a way when I have treated you so poorly.\u201d I remember that moment, thinking\u2014I was walking, minute by minute, with the Holy Spirit; like if the Holy Spirit didn\u2019t give me something to say, I didn\u2019t say anything. I was like, \u201cOkay;\u00a0 I don\u2019t even know how to answer that.\u201d I finally said: \u201cI don\u2019t know, Mark. It\u2019s un-humanable.\u201d [Laughter] He goes, \u201cUn-humanable? What is that?!\u201d I said, \u201cI don\u2019t know; I just made it up right now.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went home, and I opened up my Bible to Romans 12:9-21; and I wrote \u201cun-humanable\u201d down the side of it; because that\u2019s what it takes, sometimes, to survive these dark seasons\u2014is when we\u2019re not walking it, He\u2019s walking us through it. We look back\u2014I mean, it\u2019s the old footprints in the sand: \u201cLord, where were You? Where were You? I only see one set of footprints.\u201d \u201cOh, I was carrying you.\u201d <em>That\u2019s<\/em> really at the heart of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that, when things do go dark, our tendency is to pull away from God\u2019s Word because we feel God \u201cdoes it\u201d to us. I don\u2019t know why, humanly, we feel that God \u201cdoes it\u201d to us. Does He allow it?\u2014yes. Does He do it to us?\u2014that\u2019s not in His character.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me read this; you\u2019ve mentioned it several times. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Romans 12?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it is impossible; you cannot do this without Christ who strengthens me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Verse 9: \u201cLove must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another is love. Honor one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord.\u201d I think of your story when I read this just now: \u201cBe joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with the Lord\u2019s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Go to the very end; go to the last three verses because those were really, really powerful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Verse 19? \u201cDo not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God\u2019s wrath. For it is written, \u2018It is mine to avenge. I will repay,\u2019 says the Lord. On the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed them. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; I read that verse to my husband after he came home. I was sharing with him that that was like my marching orders. We got to that end, and he goes, \u201cYou did that!\u201d I said, \u201cI did what?!\u201d He said, \u201cYou heaped burning coals on my head.\u201d [Laughter] I said: \u201cWhat does that even mean? I don\u2019t even know what that part of the verse means.\u201d He said, \u201cYou treated me better than I deserve to be treated, and it changed me from the inside out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I go back to the first part of that passage, and I love the fact that there\u2019s a sandwich here. It starts with \u201cLet love be sincere,\u201d\u2014genuine, without hypocrisy\u2014that\u2019s where it starts. Then it says, \u201cAbhor what\u2019s evil; hold fast to what\u2019s good,\u201d\u2014then, on the other side of that\u2014\u201cHonor one another with brotherly affection.\u201d I think that\u2019s the tension that we walk in, which is: \u201cHow do we abhor what\u2019s evil?\u201d\u2014we know we\u2019re supposed to do that\u2014\u201cHow do we hold fast to what\u2019s good?\u201d But on the front side of that; on the back side of that, it\u2019s got to be love.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Sandwiched\u2014it\u2019s sandwiched in love. That\u2019s why I say that so much of this journey has been a journey for me to learn how to love at a deeper level than I\u2019ve <em>ever<\/em> experienced before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think of <em>so many<\/em> people who, if they were going to write a book about what they went through, if it was anywhere close to what you went through, it would be <em>Empty Nest, Empty Life.<\/em> It really would because they would be: \u201cI\u2019m empty. I went through all this. My husband\u2019s gone; my kids are gone. I\u2019m just sitting here in a lonely house.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou wrote the opposite: <em>Empty Nest, Full Life<\/em>. How\u2019s that?\u2014that\u2019s Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> That\u2019s a beautiful picture; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Jill Savage, you are an inspiration.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Oh, you\u2019re so sweet!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You really are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Thank you!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Thank you for helping us today, and guiding us and inspiring us to walk with Jesus, and to hold onto him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And thanks for writing this so that all of us, who are headed into or in the middle of the empty nest years, benefit from what you guys have walked through during this season of life. Jill\u2019s book is called <em>Empty Nest, Full Life: Discovering God\u2019s Best for Your Next.<\/em> We\u2019ve got copies of the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy of the book. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can order by calling 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOnce again, conversations like we\u2019ve had today I know can be extremely encouraging for families, who are in very difficult situations, like Jill and Mark were in with their son, Evan. That\u2019s what we\u2019re here for at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. We want to help provide practical biblical help and hope for your marriage and your family, day in and day out. That happens because some of you who listen, regularly, make it happen as monthly Legacy Partners. Those of you who support this ministry, month in and month out, you make this daily program and all that we do, here, at FamilyLife possible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid Robbins, the president of FamilyLife, is here with us. David, we couldn\u2019t do what we\u2019re doing, here, at FamilyLife if it weren\u2019t for our Legacy Partners.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Oh man; we are so grateful for Legacy Partners and people who will stand with us in bringing biblical help and hope to people. We try to stay in touch with our Legacy Partners and stay connected with them. In fact, next month, we have a phone call, where all of us on the team will connect. We\u2019ll all dial in together; have some dialogue and question-and-answer time together. We cherish those moments to be able to connect with those who help keep us on the air and keep God\u2019s truth going forward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe asked our Legacy Partners, recently, in a survey if they could give us reasons why <em>they<\/em> are motivated to give month to month. Steve told us it\u2019s because he believes so strongly in the biblical foundation FamilyLife has and that the practical advice is based on Scripture. He trusts FamilyLife to remain true to God\u2019s Word. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNothing could be more encouraging to me, as a president, that we are known, first and foremost, for bringing biblical, Scripture-based help that really is transformative. He goes on; he says: \u201cYou don\u2019t just offer advice; you offer truth. And it doesn\u2019t hurt that you do it with encouragement, compassion, and joy. We love the humor, and we love Dave and Ann Wilson.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m grateful for you, Bob, and to Dave and Ann, for what you bring <em>every<\/em> day. It\u2019s certainly encouraging to hear from this Legacy Partner. I would just encourage you and invite you to join in with us in continuing to provide help. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me give folks three reasons why it\u2019s a good idea to do that today, and today\u2019s a critical day for this. We\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry, who have come along and said that anybody, who becomes a new Legacy Partner this week, they are going to match every donation that Legacy Partner makes during 2020, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $30,000. Over the next ten months, as you make donations, every donation you make will be doubled, as long as there\u2019s money in that matching-gift fund. That\u2019s a good reason right there\u2014your donations will be doubled\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber two: we want to send you, as a thank-you gift, a book we\u2019ve been talking about this week\u2014a new book by Phil Vischer: the <em>Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids<\/em> book: <em>The Gospel in 52 Five-Minute Bible Stories<\/em>\u2014from Genesis to Revelation, the whole story of the Bible told in these five-minute Bible stories. You can read these to your kids or your grandkids, or pass the book along to someone who\u2019s in the middle of raising their kids, as a gift. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber three: we want to make available a gift certificate so you and your spouse can attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway; or if you want to pass that on to your adult children or to someone who\u2019s getting married this summer\u2014whatever you want to do with that gift card\u2014it\u2019s yours to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of this is our way of saying, \u201cThank you for being part of the team that makes <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible for listeners in your community and all around the world.\u201d Go online to become a new Legacy Partner, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and sign up by phone. Thank you for joining the team. We hope you enjoy the thank-you gifts we\u2019re going to send to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you have a great weekend. We hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend. I hope you can join us back on Monday. We\u2019re going to share with you, all next week, some of the great messages we just heard on board the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage cruise, week before last. It was a <em>great<\/em> time; we had a great line-up of speakers, and we\u2019ll share with you some of what the folks on board the cruise had a chance to hear. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back on Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:10"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["23.96M"],"filesize_raw":["25125768"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305793.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305793.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Jill Savage talks frankly about the challenges she's faced in the empty nest, including finding out that her son is gay. While they disagree with his current lifestyle, they continue to love him.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-02-28.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Mark and Jill Savage will never forget a phone call they received from their adult son, Evan.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> He had been leading worship for this mission trip. He came back; and he called us one Sunday afternoon\u2014just shared his heart, broke down, cried: \u201cThis is what I\u2019m struggling with; this has never stopped,\u201d\u2014I mean, just bawled, and bawled, and bawled.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, February 28<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. How would you respond, as a parent, if your son called you to tell you he was gay? We\u2019ll talk with Jill Savage about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019re talking this week about the empty nest years: getting ready for them, entering into them, having the right perspective on what those years are. As we\u2019ve said, those can be challenging steps to take; that can be a challenging time of life for a marriage, for a family, for you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen, on top of the empty nest, you\u2019re also dealing with other family-related issues, that just compounds the challenge. It\u2019s one thing if you go through the empty nest, and it\u2019s all you\u2019re dealing with; but if you\u2019re dealing with other stuff, it can be pretty tough for folks to make this transition into this stage of life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJill Savage is joining us this week. Jill, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve written a book on the empty nest called <em>Empty Nest, Full Life: Discovering God\u2019s Best for Your Next<\/em>, where you talk about letting go of what you need to let go of and about embracing and holding onto what God has for you, going forward. You\u2019ve already shared, this week, that as you went through the empty nest years and your transition into that, you dealt with the news that your husband had been unfaithful. You spent years wondering if your marriage was going to be able to be restored. By God\u2019s grace, it was\u2014[He] did an amazing work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What we haven\u2019t talked about is you had some parenting challenges with your son, Evan. Again, he said it\u2019s okay for mom to talk about this; he\u2019s good with what we\u2019re going to talk about here today. Tell us when you started to be concerned about Evan and what was going on in his heart and his life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; in fact, he helped me craft his story in the book; because Evan is our number two\/second oldest and incredible musician\u2014just an incredible musician\u2014served as a worship leader for years. If there\u2019s anything in the empty nest I\u2019ve missed, it is my children\u2019s music. Evan was the one who has carried that music into his adult years, as well as a songwriter and singer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe married a beautiful young woman. They were married for four years; then they divorced. Shortly thereafter, Evan communicated to us that he was gay. That was not what I thought my parenting years were going to look like; that was not what I thought our story was going to be. That was not what I expected life to be like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You, at that point, started to go back and look at adolescence and go: \u201cDid we miss something here? Was there something going on here? What\u2019s the story?\u201d How did you dissect all of that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes, we did; because we had had a situation, right when the internet came out. This was before people put any type of a screen on their internet or something to protect you from being able to go all kinds of places. We had discovered that he\u2019d been in some places that he shouldn\u2019t have been, and they were gay websites. That was the first clue that we were like: \u201cWait a minute. What is going on here?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe got him in counseling. Six months later, the counselor was like: \u201cI don\u2019t think this is really an issue. I think it was curiosity.\u201d At that point, he agreed with that; but he will now tell us that he kind of went underground with his struggles. We\u2019d check in every once in awhile, but he wouldn\u2019t communicate that there were any issues there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Jill, can you go back a little bit to that conversation with him when you found this on the internet. How did you talk to him about that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; I remember, of course, we were stunned. No parent prepares\/thinks that they\u2019re going to have those; and yet, every parent has to\u2014maybe not about that issue\u2014but other issues. Of course, he downplayed it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you suggest counseling?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> I think we did at that point or said, \u201cMaybe we should dig into this.\u201d He was open; I don\u2019t remember him dragging his feet on that and being unwilling to go. We chose a counselor that specialized in that. But again, at the end of that six months, or whatever, he was like, \u201cI just don\u2019t think this is an issue.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And high school\u2014he dated girls.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; he actually didn\u2019t date a lot; he didn\u2019t. He had <em>lots<\/em> of girlfriends. He always went to the Prom, and he always had a date for those kinds of things. But he didn\u2019t have anybody really special. When he went off to college and came back, that\u2019s when he began to date his wife. Certainly, in our minds, we\u2019re thinking, \u201cOkay; things really are behind us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; she obviously thought the same thing. Was she aware that this had been part of his past?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Not that I\u2019m aware of.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; four years in, you get news that they\u2019re going through a divorce.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> We know things have been hard for them; we know about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That in and of itself\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u2014is really hard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill: <\/strong>It\u2019s really hard. No mom or dad wants their kids to go through a divorce. My heart really broke for them\u2014for both of them\u2014I hated that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When did you understand that it was not just a divorce but that this was a part of Evan\u2019s life? Did he\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> He actually had the conversation with us before he had it with his wife. He had just come back from a mission trip. He had been leading worship in Turkey for this mission trip. He came back, and he was just weighed heavily; this was all weighing on him. He called us one Sunday afternoon\u2014just absolutely, just shared his heart, broke down, cried: \u201cThis is what I\u2019m struggling with. This has never stopped,\u201d\u2014I mean, just bawled, and bawled, and bawled, and bawled, and bawled.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe was two-and-a-half hours away from us. My momma heart just wanted to hold him and let him cry. At the same time, I\u2019m dealing with the reality of what he\u2019s telling us. We sat\u2014my husband, our son, and I\u2014sat on the phone for probably three hours, crying for probably two of those hours. I mean, it was <em>heart-wrenching<\/em>. Of course, we said, \u201cYou have got to talk to your wife.\u201d That was really difficult for him to wrap his brain around, but he knew he had to. He did very shortly thereafter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Was he at a point, where\u2014he knew he was struggling with this\u2014was he at a point, where he was thinking, \u201cI\u2019m going to surrender to it\u201d; or was he at a point, where he was thinking, \u201cI\u2019m going to keep fighting this\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> I think, at that point, there was a little bit more surrender in it. I thought\/I really thought, initially, he was more for the fight. I thought: \u201cTheir marriage can still make it! They can get to the other side of it!\u201d But that wasn\u2019t where they ended up going. There were a lot of layers of coming to grips with where things were at and dealing with the reality of what was in front of our eyes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt this point, that has\u2014we are now years down the road. The choices that Evan has made in his life are choices that we disagree with. We don\u2019t feel like they\u2019re God\u2019s best for him, but we have certainly learned how to love even in the midst of disagreeing. That\u2019s been really important. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the reasons Evan really wants us to talk about his story\u2014and he was willing to tell it in the book\u2014he has said\/so many times, he\u2019s said: \u201cYou guys don\u2019t understand; you don\u2019t understand that you don\u2019t agree with me, but you love me. You have no idea how many of my gay friends don\u2019t have that.\u201d That was my heart in sharing it in the <em>Empty Nest, Full Life<\/em> book; because regardless of whether it is this issue or other issues, our kids are going to blaze trails, some of which we agree with, and some of which we don\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of the things you write is: \u201cLet go of your expectations of their priorities and their values.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand their values.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, how hard was that?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> <em>Really<\/em> hard. It is; it is. It could be\u2014I mean, we\u2019re talking here about a homosexual lifestyle; but it could be all kinds of things that they\u2019re choosing to be a part of, and you disagree. What do we do? I think, oftentimes, we believe that, if I <em>accept<\/em> my child\u2019s reality, then it\u2019s <em>agreeing with<\/em>. I think that\u2019s what keeps us from loving. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is not what we have found. Our son knows where we stand on <em>that<\/em> particular issue; but he also knows he\u2019s loved, and that he is a part of our family, no matter what. I think that our kids, who are walking in ways that are outside of God\u2019s plan for their life\u2014they\u2019re making choices that we disagree with or that we don\u2019t feel are best for them\u2014they still need to know that they\u2019re a part of our family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> A lot of parents\u2014you know this, you\u2019ve faced issues like this\u2014if your daughter\u2019s living with her boyfriend, and it\u2019s Christmas time, and she wants to bring the boyfriend home for Christmas\u2014if your son\u2019s in a gay lifestyle, he wants to bring his friend over for Christmas\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Awful hard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014or he sends you a wedding invitation. You haven\u2019t faced <em>that<\/em> yet. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> We haven\u2019t; no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Have you talked about what you\u2019d do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> You know, we have, to some degree; and yet, you also don\u2019t spend too much time going: \u201cOkay; what if\u2026\u201d \u201cWhat if\u2026\u201d \u201cWhat if\u2026\u201d We try to live what\u2019s right in front of us; it\u2019s really difficult. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other piece you put in there is\u2014you go, \u201cWould I go to a wedding of somebody else\u2019s kid that is living outside of God\u2019s plan?\u201d I mean, I\u2019m sure most of us have!\u2014right? I think that that really challenges me in the love department; it <em>really<\/em> challenges me. That has been the place, where I feel that God has grown me the most. I don\u2019t think\u2014in fact, I know\u2014that my son doesn\u2019t confuse my love with believing that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that this is not God\u2019s best for him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Correct. He knows that. He said it himself: \u201cYou don\u2019t agree with me, but you love me,\u201d\u2014so that\u2019s clear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019re Jill Savage; you\u2019ve written books on marriage and parenting; you\u2019ve done conferences\u201420 years of <em>Hearts at Home<\/em> conferences\u2014helping people get biblically-oriented around this. In the back of my mind, there would, at least, be this little whisper of: \u201cWait a sec.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u201cWhat do people think?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019d have this conversation with God\u2014like: \u201cWhy am I getting this? I put in my dues. Shouldn\u2019t I get a little\u2014kind of a pass on these hard issues?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> You know, I think my heart has been protected against that. No, I honestly haven\u2019t; because \u201cWhy not me? Why not any of us? This world is a <em>messy<\/em> place; it is difficult.\u201d My husband was reading a book, not too long ago; the statement in it was: \u201cLife is \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t95 percent hard.\u201d Honestly, for whatever reason, I\u2019m a bit of a realist, so I think I\u2019ve known that. There has not been a \u201cWhy me?\u201d; there\u2019s certainly been an \u201cI\u2019m tired. Lord, I\u2019m really, really tired.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Jill, the thing that I\u2019m so inspired about is how you stayed in the game. You have followed Jesus. You haven\u2019t let life\u2019s circumstances, tragedies, or hardships take you out. So often, I think somebody would be like, \u201cI can\u2019t do this anymore!\u201d The picture that I have of you, as we\u2019ve been talking, is the picture of you with your Bible on the pillow. That has obviously been your stronghold, and your life, and your sustenance. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; my life verse is Philippians 4:13: \u201cI can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.\u201d I have had to carry that on. That\u2019s had to be, literally, a physical mantra that I have had to say over and over again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We ought to say the context for that verse is Paul talking about the secret of contentment; He\u2019s talking about, \u201cI\u2019ve learned how to be content in want and in plenty.\u201d The \u201call things that we can do\u201d is we can remain contented if we keep anchored to Christ, whatever our circumstances are. You\u2019ve continued to stay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u2014a bit like Job sometimes. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut going back to God\u2019s Word\u2014I remember, during my husband\u2019s infidelity, and that dark season, God took me to Romans 12:9-21. It\u2019s the verses that talk about love and how love overcomes evil. I\u2019ll tell you what\u2014that\u2019s been a big part of my sustenance\u2014is God\u2019s Word. That became my marching orders; I would read Romans 12:9-21 every single day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt one point, my husband asked me, \u201cI don\u2019t understand how you have treated me in such a way when I have treated you so poorly.\u201d I remember that moment, thinking\u2014I was walking, minute by minute, with the Holy Spirit; like if the Holy Spirit didn\u2019t give me something to say, I didn\u2019t say anything. I was like, \u201cOkay;\u00a0 I don\u2019t even know how to answer that.\u201d I finally said: \u201cI don\u2019t know, Mark. It\u2019s un-humanable.\u201d [Laughter] He goes, \u201cUn-humanable? What is that?!\u201d I said, \u201cI don\u2019t know; I just made it up right now.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went home, and I opened up my Bible to Romans 12:9-21; and I wrote \u201cun-humanable\u201d down the side of it; because that\u2019s what it takes, sometimes, to survive these dark seasons\u2014is when we\u2019re not walking it, He\u2019s walking us through it. We look back\u2014I mean, it\u2019s the old footprints in the sand: \u201cLord, where were You? Where were You? I only see one set of footprints.\u201d \u201cOh, I was carrying you.\u201d <em>That\u2019s<\/em> really at the heart of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that, when things do go dark, our tendency is to pull away from God\u2019s Word because we feel God \u201cdoes it\u201d to us. I don\u2019t know why, humanly, we feel that God \u201cdoes it\u201d to us. Does He allow it?\u2014yes. Does He do it to us?\u2014that\u2019s not in His character.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me read this; you\u2019ve mentioned it several times. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Romans 12?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it is impossible; you cannot do this without Christ who strengthens me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Verse 9: \u201cLove must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another is love. Honor one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord.\u201d I think of your story when I read this just now: \u201cBe joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with the Lord\u2019s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Go to the very end; go to the last three verses because those were really, really powerful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Verse 19? \u201cDo not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God\u2019s wrath. For it is written, \u2018It is mine to avenge. I will repay,\u2019 says the Lord. On the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed them. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; I read that verse to my husband after he came home. I was sharing with him that that was like my marching orders. We got to that end, and he goes, \u201cYou did that!\u201d I said, \u201cI did what?!\u201d He said, \u201cYou heaped burning coals on my head.\u201d [Laughter] I said: \u201cWhat does that even mean? I don\u2019t even know what that part of the verse means.\u201d He said, \u201cYou treated me better than I deserve to be treated, and it changed me from the inside out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I go back to the first part of that passage, and I love the fact that there\u2019s a sandwich here. It starts with \u201cLet love be sincere,\u201d\u2014genuine, without hypocrisy\u2014that\u2019s where it starts. Then it says, \u201cAbhor what\u2019s evil; hold fast to what\u2019s good,\u201d\u2014then, on the other side of that\u2014\u201cHonor one another with brotherly affection.\u201d I think that\u2019s the tension that we walk in, which is: \u201cHow do we abhor what\u2019s evil?\u201d\u2014we know we\u2019re supposed to do that\u2014\u201cHow do we hold fast to what\u2019s good?\u201d But on the front side of that; on the back side of that, it\u2019s got to be love.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Sandwiched\u2014it\u2019s sandwiched in love. That\u2019s why I say that so much of this journey has been a journey for me to learn how to love at a deeper level than I\u2019ve <em>ever<\/em> experienced before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think of <em>so many<\/em> people who, if they were going to write a book about what they went through, if it was anywhere close to what you went through, it would be <em>Empty Nest, Empty Life.<\/em> It really would because they would be: \u201cI\u2019m empty. I went through all this. My husband\u2019s gone; my kids are gone. I\u2019m just sitting here in a lonely house.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou wrote the opposite: <em>Empty Nest, Full Life<\/em>. How\u2019s that?\u2014that\u2019s Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> That\u2019s a beautiful picture; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Jill Savage, you are an inspiration.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Oh, you\u2019re so sweet!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You really are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Thank you!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Thank you for helping us today, and guiding us and inspiring us to walk with Jesus, and to hold onto him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And thanks for writing this so that all of us, who are headed into or in the middle of the empty nest years, benefit from what you guys have walked through during this season of life. Jill\u2019s book is called <em>Empty Nest, Full Life: Discovering God\u2019s Best for Your Next.<\/em> We\u2019ve got copies of the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy of the book. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can order by calling 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOnce again, conversations like we\u2019ve had today I know can be extremely encouraging for families, who are in very difficult situations, like Jill and Mark were in with their son, Evan. That\u2019s what we\u2019re here for at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. We want to help provide practical biblical help and hope for your marriage and your family, day in and day out. That happens because some of you who listen, regularly, make it happen as monthly Legacy Partners. Those of you who support this ministry, month in and month out, you make this daily program and all that we do, here, at FamilyLife possible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid Robbins, the president of FamilyLife, is here with us. David, we couldn\u2019t do what we\u2019re doing, here, at FamilyLife if it weren\u2019t for our Legacy Partners.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Oh man; we are so grateful for Legacy Partners and people who will stand with us in bringing biblical help and hope to people. We try to stay in touch with our Legacy Partners and stay connected with them. In fact, next month, we have a phone call, where all of us on the team will connect. We\u2019ll all dial in together; have some dialogue and question-and-answer time together. We cherish those moments to be able to connect with those who help keep us on the air and keep God\u2019s truth going forward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe asked our Legacy Partners, recently, in a survey if they could give us reasons why <em>they<\/em> are motivated to give month to month. Steve told us it\u2019s because he believes so strongly in the biblical foundation FamilyLife has and that the practical advice is based on Scripture. He trusts FamilyLife to remain true to God\u2019s Word. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNothing could be more encouraging to me, as a president, that we are known, first and foremost, for bringing biblical, Scripture-based help that really is transformative. He goes on; he says: \u201cYou don\u2019t just offer advice; you offer truth. And it doesn\u2019t hurt that you do it with encouragement, compassion, and joy. We love the humor, and we love Dave and Ann Wilson.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m grateful for you, Bob, and to Dave and Ann, for what you bring <em>every<\/em> day. It\u2019s certainly encouraging to hear from this Legacy Partner. I would just encourage you and invite you to join in with us in continuing to provide help. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me give folks three reasons why it\u2019s a good idea to do that today, and today\u2019s a critical day for this. We\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry, who have come along and said that anybody, who becomes a new Legacy Partner this week, they are going to match every donation that Legacy Partner makes during 2020, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $30,000. Over the next ten months, as you make donations, every donation you make will be doubled, as long as there\u2019s money in that matching-gift fund. That\u2019s a good reason right there\u2014your donations will be doubled\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber two: we want to send you, as a thank-you gift, a book we\u2019ve been talking about this week\u2014a new book by Phil Vischer: the <em>Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids<\/em> book: <em>The Gospel in 52 Five-Minute Bible Stories<\/em>\u2014from Genesis to Revelation, the whole story of the Bible told in these five-minute Bible stories. You can read these to your kids or your grandkids, or pass the book along to someone who\u2019s in the middle of raising their kids, as a gift. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber three: we want to make available a gift certificate so you and your spouse can attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway; or if you want to pass that on to your adult children or to someone who\u2019s getting married this summer\u2014whatever you want to do with that gift card\u2014it\u2019s yours to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of this is our way of saying, \u201cThank you for being part of the team that makes <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible for listeners in your community and all around the world.\u201d Go online to become a new Legacy Partner, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and sign up by phone. Thank you for joining the team. We hope you enjoy the thank-you gifts we\u2019re going to send to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you have a great weekend. We hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend. I hope you can join us back on Monday. We\u2019re going to share with you, all next week, some of the great messages we just heard on board the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage cruise, week before last. It was a <em>great<\/em> time; we had a great line-up of speakers, and we\u2019ll share with you some of what the folks on board the cruise had a chance to hear. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back on Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/305793","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305793"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305793"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305793"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305793"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=305793"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=305793"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=305793"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}