{"id":305782,"date":"2020-02-25T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-02-25T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/teaching-children-to-love-the-scriptures\/"},"modified":"2020-02-25T06:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-02-25T11:00:04","slug":"teaching-children-to-love-the-scriptures","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/teaching-children-to-love-the-scriptures\/","title":{"rendered":"Teaching Children to Love the Scriptures"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Guest: Phil Vischer | Series: Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids | Phil Vischer, VeggieTales creator and author of the Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids, talks to Dave and Ann Wilson about what parents should do, and stop doing, when discipling their children.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/.<br \/>\n \tThe Weekend to Remember\u00ae https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/weekend-to-remember\/<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<br \/>\n \tHave the FamilyLife Today\u00ae podcast and resources helped you?\u00a0 Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Phil Vischer, VeggieTales creator and author of the Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids, talks to Dave and Ann Wilson about what parents should do, and stop doing, when discipling their children.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-02-25.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:50","filesize":"26.39M","filesize_raw":"27674708","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2833,2806],"tags":[2209],"podcast_series":[8341],"cwp_profile":[9279],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305782","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-godly-legacy","category-spiritual-development","tag-parenting","podcast_series-laugh-and-learn-bible-for-kids","cwp_profile-phil-vischer","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305782\/teaching-children-to-love-the-scriptures","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305782\/teaching-children-to-love-the-scriptures","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"BWVBhFQVVA\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/teaching-children-to-love-the-scriptures\/\">Teaching Children to Love the Scriptures<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/teaching-children-to-love-the-scriptures\/embed\/#?secret=BWVBhFQVVA\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Teaching Children to Love the Scriptures&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"BWVBhFQVVA\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-02-25.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-02-25.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There are things we can be doing, as parents, during the season when our kids are in elementary school to prepare them for the challenges their faith will face when they get to high school. Here is Phil Vischer.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> So many kids get their faith knocked out from under them when they are in high school or college because they are being confronted with questions from a hostile source for the first time; and no one ever asked those questions in a friendly environment. The kind of questions that they are going to get hit with in high school\u2014they don\u2019t need to get hit with when they are two\u2014but if you present them in a gentle way when they are seven, eight, nine\u2014by the time they are in high school, they\u2019ve already got those answers.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, February 25<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. For your child\u2019s faith to sustain itself in their teen years, they need more than just a collection of Bible stories they learned when they were a child. They need to understand the big story of the Bible. We\u2019re going to talk about that with Phil Vischer today. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know what most people don\u2019t know when they turn on a <em>VeggieTales <\/em>episode is that there\u2019s a mom to thank for the <em>VeggieTales<\/em> stories. The mom we\u2019re talking about is the mom of the inventor of <em>VeggieTales<\/em>, Phil Vischer, who is joining us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back, Phil.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Hey; thanks for having me back.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Phil is the guy, who 25 years ago, in his kitchen, came up with talking vegetables and the rest is history. He\u2019s gone on to be an author, a speaker; he\u2019s got a podcast. He\u2019s just come out with a new Bible storybook for kids called the <em>Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids<\/em>.\n\nWhen I talk about your mom getting some of the credit for this\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014she was actually on staff with Big Idea when you started this; right?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> No; she was part of our foundation later on. When I started that, she was on staff with David C. Cook.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> She was a Sunday school curriculum editor.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you had to run stuff by her?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> She has her doctorate in Child Development and Spiritual Formation. When I <em>first<\/em> came up with the idea, I went to her and said: \u201cIt will be vegetables teaching the Bible. Do you see any issues? [Laughter] Tell me if you see issues.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to hear that conversation. What did she say?!\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> She said three things\u2014three things, which became the ground rules of <em>VeggieTales<\/em>. She said, \u201cNumber one, you will not portray Jesus as a vegetable.\u201d [Laughter] I thought\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cThat\u2019s wise.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Good start.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cOkay; yes. I can see where you are coming from.\u201d\n\n\u201cNumber two, you will not imply that vegetables can have redemptive relationships with Christ.\u201d \u201cOkay; this is getting tricky.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> This is why\u2014to explain what that <em>looks<\/em> like in <em>VeggieTales<\/em>: Bob and Larry <em>never<\/em> pray when they are on the kitchen countertop, because they are actually being vegetables. They will pray if they are <em>pretending<\/em> to be biblical characters in a story; so if they\u2019re playing the roles of humans, they will pray. If they are actually being themselves as vegetables, they don\u2019t pray because they are vegetables.\n\nThen she said, \u201cNumber three, as often as you can, the most important thing you can do is to remind kids how God made them special and how He loves them\u2014how much He loves them.\u201d I thought, \u201cOkay; I need like a catch phrase for the end of every show: \u2018Just remember kids: God made you special, and He loves you very much.\u2019\u201d That is the message of <em>VeggieTales<\/em>. My mother effectively saved <em>VeggieTales<\/em> from the mistakes I could have made.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You have clearly, over the last quarter century, spent a lot of time thinking about biblical themes, about character, about how to best press these things into the hearts of kids. What are most moms and dads doing that they should stop doing, or what are they not doing that they should start doing?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s tricky. I think we should stop over-complicating things. Sometimes, we\u2019re worried that our four-year-old isn\u2019t quite grasping the <em>entire<\/em> gospel. They are not going to because they\u2014developmentally, they are not ready.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> If you can\u2019t think abstractly, it\u2019s very hard to understand the concept of redemption\u2014so many deep, biblical concepts that you can\u2019t understand until you can think abstractly.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Can I illustrate this for you?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Go for it.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> My son, when he was six or seven years old, one day we\u2019re driving a long. He said, \u201cHey; Dad, I know who the chief Indian man is.\u201d I said, \u201cWhat do you mean the chief Indian man? What are you talking about?\u201d He said, \u201cThe chief Indian man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever.\u201d [Laughter] I thought, \u201cThis catechism thing we\u2019re doing is <em>not<\/em> connecting with him the way I intended for it to.\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> It\u2019s something that we just barely missed.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, you do have to\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014keep it\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014simple.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Right. Let\u2019s meet kids where they are, not worry that they can\u2019t grasp the whole thing. What we, then, can make the mistake in doing is trying to protect them from hard questions\u2014you wait too long.\n\nYou know, does a two-year-old need to know about sin, or about doubts, and people questioning the authority of the Bible, or where did the Bible come from, or what\u2019s with all the weird rules in Leviticus, and why do we only follow some of them and we ignore others? The kind of questions that they are going to get hit with in high school\u2014they don\u2019t need to get hit with when they are two\u2014but if you present them in a gentle way when they are seven, eight, nine\u2014by the time they are in high school, they have already got those answers.\n\nSo many kids get their faith knocked out from under them when they are in high school or college because they are being confronted with questions from a hostile source for the first time, and no one ever asked those questions in a friendly environment. That\u2019s something I\u2019ve tried to do extensively in <em>What\u2019s in the Bible?<\/em> It also comes up in the kids\u2019 Bible.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> In the kids\u2019 Bible\u2014the <em>Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids<\/em>\u2014you tell the story of Job. At the end of the story of Job, in the Tricky Bits\u2014because at the end of each story, you\u2019ve got a little family connection\u2014Tricky Bits: \u201cWhy do bad things happen to good people?\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This has been around for a while\u2014that question; right?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Quite a while.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Your answer here is: \u201cThis is one of the trickiest questions about faith. The simple answer is because we live in a broken world. See, when Adam and Eve sinned, God\u2019s perfect world became broken. Everything changed except God. He\u2019s always good, and He\u2019s always with us no matter what.\u201d That doesn\u2019t resolve <em>everything<\/em> for a child.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> No; we always want to resolve everything. Bad things happen because we live in a broken world, and we can\u2019t explain them all. Some of them are just because it\u2019s bad. When you tell the story of Job, and you\u2019re looking for that answer\/Job wanted that answer: \u201cWhy did this happen?\u201d He doesn\u2019t get the answer\u2014God shows up; God just says, \u201cHey; who is God?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Job says, \u201cOkay; that\u2019s all\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That was enough.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI need to know\u201d; right.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Literally, puts his hand over his mouth and says, \u201cI have spoken about things that I do not understand.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> It\u2019s okay\u2014we don\u2019t want to admit to our kids that there are things we don\u2019t understand, so we make up simplistic understandings. That sets up our kids on a very <em>dangerous<\/em> path of having simplistic understandings that can be easily undermined when they leave the house.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, as a parent, to say: \u201cThere are things that are hard to understand in the Bible\u2014things I still don\u2019t understand\u2014but here is what I do know: God is good.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cGod loves us.\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> We think us not having certainty will undermine our kid\u2019s faith. It actually <em>builds<\/em> it when they see us wrestling, because they are going to wrestle. They are either going to live in denial, or they are going to wrestle. If they <em>never<\/em> see their parents wrestle, the first time they wrestle with their faith, they\u2019ll think they are doing something wrong. We <em>don\u2019t<\/em> want them to think they are doing something wrong because they have a doubt.\n\nThere are doubters in the Bible; it\u2019s easy to have doubts. It\u2019s healthy to have doubts because it\u2019s how you get through to the other side to faith; because faith ultimately isn\u2019t knowing for sure\u2014that\u2019s not the definition of faith\u2014it\u2019s believing and acting as if you have found something to be true; then, afterwards, finding out that it is true. That\u2019s what we need to encourage our kids to.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay; what do you say to the parent that gets to that Tricky Bits at the end of the Job story and thinks: \u201cYou know, I\u2019ve got a four-year-old,\u201d \u201c\u2026six-year-old,\u201d \u201c\u2026seven-year-old. I don\u2019t think I want to actually bring this up, because I\u2019m going to create something in their brain that they shouldn\u2019t be thinking about yet.\u201d Obviously, they should; why should they?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Well, it depends on how young they are.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> If they are really, really young, and you feel uncomfortable about something, just skip it. You know your kids better than I do.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> But don\u2019t skip it forever because sometime between two and high school, they need to be able to wrestle with tricky questions, independent from you.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Phil, what did that look like for you, as a dad? Did your kids ask some hard questions? You know, did you just become a character? How did you teach this in your home with you and your wife?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think I necessarily did a great job, because I was so young; you know? You never know everything you\u2019re going to know when you start with kids. You all\/everyone starts out kind of ignorant.\n\nWhat I tried to do, as my kids were starting to grow up, was externalize my own journey with God. I realized that, as an introvert, I was having a pretty significant journey with God; but I wasn\u2019t sure that they knew about it, because I\u2019m an introvert. I don\u2019t just\u2014so I had to kind of force myself. What you are experiencing with God, make it a subject at the dinner table\/bring it out. Whether it is good or bad\u2014whether you are wrestling or celebrating, whether you are singing a psalm of praise or a psalm of lament\u2014sing it, openly, with your kids; and they will see your journey.\n\nIt\u2019s not even as much as: \u201cAm I teaching all the right things at the right times?\u201d but \u201cAm I <em>showing<\/em> them what it looks like to <em>live<\/em> this way?\u201d Also, put them in context, where they are getting good, solid teaching\u2014in church, whether it\u2019s resources\u2014because not everyone is a great Bible teacher; that\u2019s okay. We have great Bible teachers; I mean, I go to great Bible teachers. Then I try to figure out how to put those cookies down on a lower shelf for the kids. Find the good resources and work on your own journey, and make sure you\u2019re journey is <em>visible<\/em> to your kids. I think that will do more than just about anything else.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think that is so important; and it\u2019s an area that I wasn\u2019t good at, as a parent, because I thought my job was to live out a model existence.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Do it perfectly.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes\u2014to put my righteousness on display in front of my kids. Well, there\u2019s a name for people who put their righteousness on display\u2014we call them Pharisees; right?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> No, that\u2019s not Bob.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was going to say, \u201cBob.\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I was going to say, \u201cBob.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, maybe, that\u2019s synonymous in some cases, which is sad; but I thought, \u201cIf I showed the cracks\/if I show the failings, that I\u2019m somehow undermining what I\u2019m supposed to be living.\u201d I wish there\u2019d been more confession of sin on my part with my kids. I wish there had been more: \u201cHere is what I\u2019m struggling with\u2026\u201d or \u201cHere\u2019s what I don\u2019t understand\u2026\u201d\u2014just living out the reality of my faith in front of my kids\u2014rather than thinking, \u201cI\u2019ve got to have this buttoned down and have the answers for them anytime they ask the questions.\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I also think there is a <em>huge<\/em> role for grandparents. I am now a grandparent; and I recognize, \u201cWhen I was 25 and had a 2-year-old, I was not very mature.\u201d Now, I\u2019m 53, and I have a 2-year-old again.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got more to say this time; don\u2019t you?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes, so rather than pressuring my daughter and son-in-law: \u201cDo it all right!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cDon\u2019t do it exactly the way I did it, because I didn\u2019t know anything when I was your age.\u201d Well, they are in the same place I was.\n\nThat\u2019s where grandparents come in. Jump in with your grandkids and teach them the Bible, and make sure your kids have the resources so that they can get help; because they are struggling just as much as you did when you were that age.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Then there is also the community. If you are <em>not<\/em> in a community of believers\u2014like Sunday school teachers\u2014my nieces and nephews; my wife and I have played a role in their faith journey, not because their parents weren\u2019t doing it right, but because we all do it differently. We all bring something different to it\u2014being able to have interactions with other adults that aren\u2019t your parents\u2014because there are certainly phases in your childhood, where the last people you want to listen to are your actual parents; but you\u2019ll listen to a Sunday school teacher; you\u2019ll listen to a youth group leader.\n\nWhen my parents\u2019 marriage fell apart, and I kind of lost faith in my own parents, it was youth group leaders that I put my trust in. I said, \u201cOkay; I\u2019ll believe this coming from <em>you<\/em> because you didn\u2019t let me down.\u201d As parents, we let our kids down\u2014it\u2019s inevitable, whether it is in little ways or big ways\u2014but having other adults that are close enough to them that your kids can turn to them and say, \u201cWhat do you think about this?\u201d \u201cWell, did you ask your mom?\u201d \u201cNo; I will ask her later. What do <em>you<\/em> think about this?\u201d\n\nHaving people in your kids\u2019 lives that can do that\u2014that\u2019s why it is so important. You can\u2019t Christian alone; I mean, technically, you cannot Christian alone. You Christian in bodies of people\/groups of people, and that\u2019s also where you <em>raise<\/em> the next generation.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We talked about this a little earlier, but <em>VeggieTales<\/em> has been resurrected.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> At Christmastime, there was a Christmas special. There are\u2014did you say 18 new episodes?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Eighteen new episodes in production right now, and we\u2019re just starting to write eight more; so there will be twenty-six new <em>VeggieTales<\/em> episodes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What stories are you telling that you haven\u2019t told before? I mean, give us a little sneak\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> OH! There are so many stories, Bob. There\u2019s the story of the Pharisee with the radio show; that\u2019s a fun one. [Laughter] Really enjoyed that one. No; I\u2019m sorry. That\u2019s terribly unkind. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No; I didn\u2019t see that coming. Though I\u2019m afraid\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Could you write a song about that?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; a song. There always is a song\u2014has to be a song. Stories like Abigail and Abel from the Old Testament. Stories like the prodigal son that were too short for doing a 45-minute DVD\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014for <em>VeggieTales<\/em>. But because the new show is in a variety show format, I can do these really short, fun little Bible stories: Paul and Silas in prison, singing in the back of the prison, while the jailer\u2014Pa Grape is the jailer.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Got it.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> [voice of Pa Grape] \u201cWhat is going on here?! How can you guys be happy when you\u2019re in jail?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I want to hear the song.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; can\u2014did you\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What song do they sing?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Can you sing a part of a song?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I don\u2019t remember which song it was. I just wrote it; I don\u2019t memorize it. [Laughter] I\u2019ve written like 40 songs in the last 6 months.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> These are initially going to be showing up on TBN.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> They\u2019ll be on TBN first, and then they\u2019ll be streaming places, and to DVDs, and whatever else. Children will ride bikes down the street, handing them out on little pamphlets. [Laughter] Distribution has become very challenging. There are no more Christian bookstores, so we have to enlist children to go house to house.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Have you listened to the Millennials, who grew up on <em>VeggieTales<\/em>, process\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014their own experience of growing up on <em>VeggieTales<\/em>? The podcasts that are being done now about Veggie\u2014do you listen to this stuff?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> No; I try not to. It gets a little weird.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m glad you brought it up, Bob.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Have you, Bob?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> What should I know about it?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I just\/I know that there are people kind of deconstructing everything about their evangelical childhood\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; oh, yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014right?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> That definitely is true.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They are processing what <em>Adventures in Odyssey<\/em> was all about; they are processing what <em>VeggieTales<\/em> was all about.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They are finding the good, the bad, and the ugly in all of it. I just wondered if you are tuning in to hear what they are saying.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I try not to. If I see it on Twitter<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, you know, there is a little social media that I have to follow just to not to be dead\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014you know? I\u2019d be written off as: \u201cToo bad he died. Haven\u2019t seen him on Twitter,\u201d\u2014because they\u2019ll actually have a funeral for you; people will show up. [Laughter] If you don\u2019t show up on social media for six months, you\u2019re\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019re dead.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014your obituary shows up in the <em>Chicago Tribune<\/em>. [Laughter] So, I have to do, at least, a little bit.\n\nI\u2019ve bumped into so many kids\u2014and these college-aged kids\/young adults, who just say the same thing\u2014they say, \u201cThank you for my childhood,\u201d\u2014because they were in a home, where there was so much media that was considered just not beneficial: \u201cIt was like the one thing that we can all agree on that we actually enjoy that my parents wanted me to watch AND I wanted to watch was <em>VeggieTales<\/em>.\u201d\n\nTo realize, you\u2019ve been that central in someone\u2019s childhood gives you a real\u2014I mean, Mr. Rogers is one of my heroes; you know? He was so central to so many childhoods\u2014and have just a little\/just a little bit of that is like the coolest thing in the world.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you\u2019re deconstructing the original <em>VeggieTales<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes?\u2014am I, Bob?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019re getting a chance to do this.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He is.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Oh, yes; okay.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Because, by making 18 new\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u201418 new ones.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014episodes\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019re getting a chance to say, \u201cHere\u2019s how I would do it today.\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, what are you doing today that\u2019s different than what you were doing 25 years ago?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; not assuming that kids can adopt a Christian behavior simply because you\u2019ve told them to adopt the Christian behavior; you know?\u2014\u201cBe forgiving because God says so.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Trying to shift the lesson to be a little less about us and a little more about God; because if we learn how forgiving God is, it can <em>inspire<\/em> us to want to be more forgiving rather than oblige us.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Move from character qualities to the biblical anchor.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> More theology.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> More to theology: \u201cWhat does the Bible teach us about forgiveness?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is something\u2014I bring this up because you talked about this in the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> video series that you were a part of. By the way, thank you for being a part of that.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Oh, you\u2019re welcome. I hope to see it someday. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019re kind of past the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em> phase; but\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; I am.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014we can get you a copy of it before you\u2019re done here. You talked about the fact that, if we try to produce or urge our children to produce flesh-generated character, that can work for a while\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014but that\u2019s ultimately going to fail them. We\u2019ve got to teach them how to\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014live from the Spirit.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> The fruit of the Spirit is, in fact, called the fruit of the <em>Spirit<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> It\u2019s not the \u201cfruit of John,\u201d or \u201cthe fruit of Sam,\u201d or \u201cthe fruit of Mary\u201d; it\u2019s the fruit of the Spirit because <em>you<\/em> can\u2019t make it on your own. You know, I\u2019ve heard so many people teach the fruit of the Spirit and say, \u201cOkay; now, you need to do better at this.\u201d Like, \u201cNo, that\u2019s the whole point\u2014is you can\u2019t\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cYou can\u2019t\u201d; yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cdo better at this,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s Paul\u2019s point. This will only happen, not when you\u2019re focused on those things\/not when you are focused on behaving better, but when you\u2019re focused on walking with Jesus. When you walk with Jesus, you become a different kind of tree; and a different kind of tree produces different kind of fruit, whether it wants to or not.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> That\u2019s such, I think, a freeing message for kids that, to follow Jesus doesn\u2019t mean you have to perfect yourself. It\u2019s not an exercise in self-perfection. It\u2019s simply following Jesus.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Be root-focused, not fruit-focused.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> OH!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s good; that works.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Did you use that in a sermon?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I wish I could say I did. [Laughter] I would love to say I did.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019ll be in the next sermon; won\u2019t it?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, what\u2019s sort of funny about it is\u2014it came from a kid, who grew up listening and watching <em>VeggieTales<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Really?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; my son.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Oh, wow!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He said that in a sermon, and I wrote it down like that. It\u2019s a good one; you know? Because that\u2019s what we do\u2014we are fruit-focused; that\u2019s all about behavior.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s like: \u201cNo; it\u2019s about the root, Jesus, the vine.\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> We do this same thing in other areas of our lives, where we\u2019re focused on the outcomes\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014not on obedience.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is why I love being able to recommend a book like <em>Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids<\/em> because I know the worldview\/the theological worldview that is informing the telling of these stories. This the perspective parents are going to be passing on to their kids, and I\u2019m just thrilled to have this. I\u2019m thrilled that you were able to spend a little time with us and talk about this.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Well, thank you. I think a lot of parents, deep down, are afraid that the Bible actually doesn\u2019t make sense; and if we actually try to read it all with our kids, it\u2019s just not going to make sense. This is the privilege\u2014is to point out: \u201cNo; it does.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u201cThe Bible makes sense. It tells a story; it\u2019s cohesive; and it\u2019s a cohesive way of life to follow Jesus.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Phil, you\u2019ve done a great job of threading the whole storyline of seeing Jesus from the beginning to the end. It\u2019s beautifully illustrated, and I would encourage every parent to get this book\/every grandparent because you will love it. It\u2019s deep; and yet, it\u2019s simple. It\u2019s something that every household, I think, should have this. I\u2019m going to get these for our grandkids.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Thanks for being with us.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Thanks for having me.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got copies of the <em>Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids<\/em> that\u2019s\u2014that\u2019s really for elementary-aged kids; and then we\u2019ve got the <em>Laugh and Learn Bible for Little Ones<\/em> that\u2019s for younger\/preschool kids. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to get your copy of either of those or multiple copies if you\u2019d like.\n\nIn fact, we\u2019re doing something\u2014I mentioned this earlier\u2014we\u2019re doing, this week, those of you, who are longtime <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners\u2014and you know who you are: you\u2019ve listened for a while; you like the program; you tune in regularly\u2014we want to ask you to join us as FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Legacy Partners.\n\nDavid Robbins, who is the president of FamilyLife, is here with us. Explain for our listeners what a Legacy Partner is.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> Legacy Partners are people who come alongside FamilyLife and: \u201cI believe in what you do. I believe in getting biblical practical help and hope out to parents and families and marriages.\u201d They join us month to month; they commit to a specific amount and join us, month to month, in helping us be on air in your community. We did a survey recently and asked our Legacy Partners why they give, month to month, because it is certainly a commitment.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> Julia told us\u2014and I quote: \u201cWe truly believe that the family is the conduit for Christ in neighborhoods, towns, and states; and that FamilyLife is a true vehicle of God\u2019s plan and love for the family, and one of the major hopes for the future.\u201d Thanks, Julia\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> \u2014first of all. Let me just say, \u201cThanks,\u201d to Legacy Partners because that is our desire\u2014to be a conduit for Christ in your community.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, we like to see our number of Legacy Partners grow this month. We\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry, who have come along, and say, \u201cWe\u2019d like to help you with that.\u201d They\u2019ve agreed that anybody who, this week, becomes a brand-new Legacy Partner\u2014they are going to match every donation that new Legacy Partner makes in 2020. They are going to match it, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $30,000. That is a pretty good deal, so your Legacy Partner gift gets double duty when you become a Legacy Partner this week.\n\nIn addition, we\u2019ll send you a copy of the <em>Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids<\/em> as a thank-you gift\u2014the book we\u2019ve been talking about today\u2014we\u2019ll send that to you; <em>and<\/em> we\u2019ll send you a certificate so that either you and your spouse, or another couple you know, can attend a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway as our guests. That\u2019s because we love our Legacy Partners, and we want to connect with you.\n\nIn fact, we\u2019re going to be having a phone call next month, in about two or three weeks, with Legacy Partners. This is just something where Dave and Ann and I get on the phone and do some interaction with Legacy Partners about questions you\u2019ve got about marriage, and family, or ideas you have for our program. It\u2019s just a way to connect with those of you who are highly invested in what we are doing.\n\nIf you\u2019d like to become a new Legacy Partner, take advantage of the matching gift that is going on; get the <em>Laugh and Learn Bible<\/em>; get the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> gift certificate\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com and sign on\u2014say, \u201cI want to become a Legacy Partner\u201d; or call us, and we\u2019ll take care of it by phone. The website is FamilyLifeToday.com. The phone number is 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nThose of you who are going to join us, as Legacy Partners, thank you, in advance, for being a part of the team. We are grateful for you, and we appreciate you. We hope to take full advantage of this matching-gift opportunity this week. Pray for us on that, if you will.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to transition from talking about having little kids at home to talking about when the nest is empty: \u201cWhat happens after all the kids are gone?\u201d Jill Savage is going to join us to talk about having a full life when the nest is empty. I hope you can join us for that as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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Vischer, VeggieTales creator and author of the Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids, talks to Dave and Ann Wilson about what parents should do, and stop doing, when discipling their children.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-02-25.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There are things we can be doing, as parents, during the season when our kids are in elementary school to prepare them for the challenges their faith will face when they get to high school. Here is Phil Vischer.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> So many kids get their faith knocked out from under them when they are in high school or college because they are being confronted with questions from a hostile source for the first time; and no one ever asked those questions in a friendly environment. The kind of questions that they are going to get hit with in high school\u2014they don\u2019t need to get hit with when they are two\u2014but if you present them in a gentle way when they are seven, eight, nine\u2014by the time they are in high school, they\u2019ve already got those answers.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, February 25<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. For your child\u2019s faith to sustain itself in their teen years, they need more than just a collection of Bible stories they learned when they were a child. They need to understand the big story of the Bible. We\u2019re going to talk about that with Phil Vischer today. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know what most people don\u2019t know when they turn on a <em>VeggieTales <\/em>episode is that there\u2019s a mom to thank for the <em>VeggieTales<\/em> stories. The mom we\u2019re talking about is the mom of the inventor of <em>VeggieTales<\/em>, Phil Vischer, who is joining us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back, Phil.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Hey; thanks for having me back.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Phil is the guy, who 25 years ago, in his kitchen, came up with talking vegetables and the rest is history. He\u2019s gone on to be an author, a speaker; he\u2019s got a podcast. He\u2019s just come out with a new Bible storybook for kids called the <em>Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids<\/em>.\n\nWhen I talk about your mom getting some of the credit for this\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014she was actually on staff with Big Idea when you started this; right?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> No; she was part of our foundation later on. When I started that, she was on staff with David C. Cook.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> She was a Sunday school curriculum editor.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you had to run stuff by her?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> She has her doctorate in Child Development and Spiritual Formation. When I <em>first<\/em> came up with the idea, I went to her and said: \u201cIt will be vegetables teaching the Bible. Do you see any issues? [Laughter] Tell me if you see issues.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to hear that conversation. What did she say?!\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> She said three things\u2014three things, which became the ground rules of <em>VeggieTales<\/em>. She said, \u201cNumber one, you will not portray Jesus as a vegetable.\u201d [Laughter] I thought\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cThat\u2019s wise.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Good start.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cOkay; yes. I can see where you are coming from.\u201d\n\n\u201cNumber two, you will not imply that vegetables can have redemptive relationships with Christ.\u201d \u201cOkay; this is getting tricky.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> This is why\u2014to explain what that <em>looks<\/em> like in <em>VeggieTales<\/em>: Bob and Larry <em>never<\/em> pray when they are on the kitchen countertop, because they are actually being vegetables. They will pray if they are <em>pretending<\/em> to be biblical characters in a story; so if they\u2019re playing the roles of humans, they will pray. If they are actually being themselves as vegetables, they don\u2019t pray because they are vegetables.\n\nThen she said, \u201cNumber three, as often as you can, the most important thing you can do is to remind kids how God made them special and how He loves them\u2014how much He loves them.\u201d I thought, \u201cOkay; I need like a catch phrase for the end of every show: \u2018Just remember kids: God made you special, and He loves you very much.\u2019\u201d That is the message of <em>VeggieTales<\/em>. My mother effectively saved <em>VeggieTales<\/em> from the mistakes I could have made.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You have clearly, over the last quarter century, spent a lot of time thinking about biblical themes, about character, about how to best press these things into the hearts of kids. What are most moms and dads doing that they should stop doing, or what are they not doing that they should start doing?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s tricky. I think we should stop over-complicating things. Sometimes, we\u2019re worried that our four-year-old isn\u2019t quite grasping the <em>entire<\/em> gospel. They are not going to because they\u2014developmentally, they are not ready.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> If you can\u2019t think abstractly, it\u2019s very hard to understand the concept of redemption\u2014so many deep, biblical concepts that you can\u2019t understand until you can think abstractly.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Can I illustrate this for you?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Go for it.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> My son, when he was six or seven years old, one day we\u2019re driving a long. He said, \u201cHey; Dad, I know who the chief Indian man is.\u201d I said, \u201cWhat do you mean the chief Indian man? What are you talking about?\u201d He said, \u201cThe chief Indian man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever.\u201d [Laughter] I thought, \u201cThis catechism thing we\u2019re doing is <em>not<\/em> connecting with him the way I intended for it to.\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> It\u2019s something that we just barely missed.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, you do have to\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014keep it\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014simple.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Right. Let\u2019s meet kids where they are, not worry that they can\u2019t grasp the whole thing. What we, then, can make the mistake in doing is trying to protect them from hard questions\u2014you wait too long.\n\nYou know, does a two-year-old need to know about sin, or about doubts, and people questioning the authority of the Bible, or where did the Bible come from, or what\u2019s with all the weird rules in Leviticus, and why do we only follow some of them and we ignore others? The kind of questions that they are going to get hit with in high school\u2014they don\u2019t need to get hit with when they are two\u2014but if you present them in a gentle way when they are seven, eight, nine\u2014by the time they are in high school, they have already got those answers.\n\nSo many kids get their faith knocked out from under them when they are in high school or college because they are being confronted with questions from a hostile source for the first time, and no one ever asked those questions in a friendly environment. That\u2019s something I\u2019ve tried to do extensively in <em>What\u2019s in the Bible?<\/em> It also comes up in the kids\u2019 Bible.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> In the kids\u2019 Bible\u2014the <em>Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids<\/em>\u2014you tell the story of Job. At the end of the story of Job, in the Tricky Bits\u2014because at the end of each story, you\u2019ve got a little family connection\u2014Tricky Bits: \u201cWhy do bad things happen to good people?\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This has been around for a while\u2014that question; right?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Quite a while.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Your answer here is: \u201cThis is one of the trickiest questions about faith. The simple answer is because we live in a broken world. See, when Adam and Eve sinned, God\u2019s perfect world became broken. Everything changed except God. He\u2019s always good, and He\u2019s always with us no matter what.\u201d That doesn\u2019t resolve <em>everything<\/em> for a child.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> No; we always want to resolve everything. Bad things happen because we live in a broken world, and we can\u2019t explain them all. Some of them are just because it\u2019s bad. When you tell the story of Job, and you\u2019re looking for that answer\/Job wanted that answer: \u201cWhy did this happen?\u201d He doesn\u2019t get the answer\u2014God shows up; God just says, \u201cHey; who is God?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Job says, \u201cOkay; that\u2019s all\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That was enough.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI need to know\u201d; right.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Literally, puts his hand over his mouth and says, \u201cI have spoken about things that I do not understand.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> It\u2019s okay\u2014we don\u2019t want to admit to our kids that there are things we don\u2019t understand, so we make up simplistic understandings. That sets up our kids on a very <em>dangerous<\/em> path of having simplistic understandings that can be easily undermined when they leave the house.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, as a parent, to say: \u201cThere are things that are hard to understand in the Bible\u2014things I still don\u2019t understand\u2014but here is what I do know: God is good.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cGod loves us.\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> We think us not having certainty will undermine our kid\u2019s faith. It actually <em>builds<\/em> it when they see us wrestling, because they are going to wrestle. They are either going to live in denial, or they are going to wrestle. If they <em>never<\/em> see their parents wrestle, the first time they wrestle with their faith, they\u2019ll think they are doing something wrong. We <em>don\u2019t<\/em> want them to think they are doing something wrong because they have a doubt.\n\nThere are doubters in the Bible; it\u2019s easy to have doubts. It\u2019s healthy to have doubts because it\u2019s how you get through to the other side to faith; because faith ultimately isn\u2019t knowing for sure\u2014that\u2019s not the definition of faith\u2014it\u2019s believing and acting as if you have found something to be true; then, afterwards, finding out that it is true. That\u2019s what we need to encourage our kids to.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay; what do you say to the parent that gets to that Tricky Bits at the end of the Job story and thinks: \u201cYou know, I\u2019ve got a four-year-old,\u201d \u201c\u2026six-year-old,\u201d \u201c\u2026seven-year-old. I don\u2019t think I want to actually bring this up, because I\u2019m going to create something in their brain that they shouldn\u2019t be thinking about yet.\u201d Obviously, they should; why should they?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Well, it depends on how young they are.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> If they are really, really young, and you feel uncomfortable about something, just skip it. You know your kids better than I do.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> But don\u2019t skip it forever because sometime between two and high school, they need to be able to wrestle with tricky questions, independent from you.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Phil, what did that look like for you, as a dad? Did your kids ask some hard questions? You know, did you just become a character? How did you teach this in your home with you and your wife?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think I necessarily did a great job, because I was so young; you know? You never know everything you\u2019re going to know when you start with kids. You all\/everyone starts out kind of ignorant.\n\nWhat I tried to do, as my kids were starting to grow up, was externalize my own journey with God. I realized that, as an introvert, I was having a pretty significant journey with God; but I wasn\u2019t sure that they knew about it, because I\u2019m an introvert. I don\u2019t just\u2014so I had to kind of force myself. What you are experiencing with God, make it a subject at the dinner table\/bring it out. Whether it is good or bad\u2014whether you are wrestling or celebrating, whether you are singing a psalm of praise or a psalm of lament\u2014sing it, openly, with your kids; and they will see your journey.\n\nIt\u2019s not even as much as: \u201cAm I teaching all the right things at the right times?\u201d but \u201cAm I <em>showing<\/em> them what it looks like to <em>live<\/em> this way?\u201d Also, put them in context, where they are getting good, solid teaching\u2014in church, whether it\u2019s resources\u2014because not everyone is a great Bible teacher; that\u2019s okay. We have great Bible teachers; I mean, I go to great Bible teachers. Then I try to figure out how to put those cookies down on a lower shelf for the kids. Find the good resources and work on your own journey, and make sure you\u2019re journey is <em>visible<\/em> to your kids. I think that will do more than just about anything else.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think that is so important; and it\u2019s an area that I wasn\u2019t good at, as a parent, because I thought my job was to live out a model existence.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Do it perfectly.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes\u2014to put my righteousness on display in front of my kids. Well, there\u2019s a name for people who put their righteousness on display\u2014we call them Pharisees; right?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> No, that\u2019s not Bob.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was going to say, \u201cBob.\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I was going to say, \u201cBob.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, maybe, that\u2019s synonymous in some cases, which is sad; but I thought, \u201cIf I showed the cracks\/if I show the failings, that I\u2019m somehow undermining what I\u2019m supposed to be living.\u201d I wish there\u2019d been more confession of sin on my part with my kids. I wish there had been more: \u201cHere is what I\u2019m struggling with\u2026\u201d or \u201cHere\u2019s what I don\u2019t understand\u2026\u201d\u2014just living out the reality of my faith in front of my kids\u2014rather than thinking, \u201cI\u2019ve got to have this buttoned down and have the answers for them anytime they ask the questions.\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I also think there is a <em>huge<\/em> role for grandparents. I am now a grandparent; and I recognize, \u201cWhen I was 25 and had a 2-year-old, I was not very mature.\u201d Now, I\u2019m 53, and I have a 2-year-old again.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got more to say this time; don\u2019t you?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes, so rather than pressuring my daughter and son-in-law: \u201cDo it all right!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cDon\u2019t do it exactly the way I did it, because I didn\u2019t know anything when I was your age.\u201d Well, they are in the same place I was.\n\nThat\u2019s where grandparents come in. Jump in with your grandkids and teach them the Bible, and make sure your kids have the resources so that they can get help; because they are struggling just as much as you did when you were that age.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Then there is also the community. If you are <em>not<\/em> in a community of believers\u2014like Sunday school teachers\u2014my nieces and nephews; my wife and I have played a role in their faith journey, not because their parents weren\u2019t doing it right, but because we all do it differently. We all bring something different to it\u2014being able to have interactions with other adults that aren\u2019t your parents\u2014because there are certainly phases in your childhood, where the last people you want to listen to are your actual parents; but you\u2019ll listen to a Sunday school teacher; you\u2019ll listen to a youth group leader.\n\nWhen my parents\u2019 marriage fell apart, and I kind of lost faith in my own parents, it was youth group leaders that I put my trust in. I said, \u201cOkay; I\u2019ll believe this coming from <em>you<\/em> because you didn\u2019t let me down.\u201d As parents, we let our kids down\u2014it\u2019s inevitable, whether it is in little ways or big ways\u2014but having other adults that are close enough to them that your kids can turn to them and say, \u201cWhat do you think about this?\u201d \u201cWell, did you ask your mom?\u201d \u201cNo; I will ask her later. What do <em>you<\/em> think about this?\u201d\n\nHaving people in your kids\u2019 lives that can do that\u2014that\u2019s why it is so important. You can\u2019t Christian alone; I mean, technically, you cannot Christian alone. You Christian in bodies of people\/groups of people, and that\u2019s also where you <em>raise<\/em> the next generation.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We talked about this a little earlier, but <em>VeggieTales<\/em> has been resurrected.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> At Christmastime, there was a Christmas special. There are\u2014did you say 18 new episodes?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Eighteen new episodes in production right now, and we\u2019re just starting to write eight more; so there will be twenty-six new <em>VeggieTales<\/em> episodes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What stories are you telling that you haven\u2019t told before? I mean, give us a little sneak\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> OH! There are so many stories, Bob. There\u2019s the story of the Pharisee with the radio show; that\u2019s a fun one. [Laughter] Really enjoyed that one. No; I\u2019m sorry. That\u2019s terribly unkind. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No; I didn\u2019t see that coming. Though I\u2019m afraid\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Could you write a song about that?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; a song. There always is a song\u2014has to be a song. Stories like Abigail and Abel from the Old Testament. Stories like the prodigal son that were too short for doing a 45-minute DVD\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014for <em>VeggieTales<\/em>. But because the new show is in a variety show format, I can do these really short, fun little Bible stories: Paul and Silas in prison, singing in the back of the prison, while the jailer\u2014Pa Grape is the jailer.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Got it.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> [voice of Pa Grape] \u201cWhat is going on here?! How can you guys be happy when you\u2019re in jail?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I want to hear the song.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; can\u2014did you\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What song do they sing?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Can you sing a part of a song?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I don\u2019t remember which song it was. I just wrote it; I don\u2019t memorize it. [Laughter] I\u2019ve written like 40 songs in the last 6 months.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> These are initially going to be showing up on TBN.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> They\u2019ll be on TBN first, and then they\u2019ll be streaming places, and to DVDs, and whatever else. Children will ride bikes down the street, handing them out on little pamphlets. [Laughter] Distribution has become very challenging. There are no more Christian bookstores, so we have to enlist children to go house to house.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Have you listened to the Millennials, who grew up on <em>VeggieTales<\/em>, process\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014their own experience of growing up on <em>VeggieTales<\/em>? The podcasts that are being done now about Veggie\u2014do you listen to this stuff?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> No; I try not to. It gets a little weird.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m glad you brought it up, Bob.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Have you, Bob?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> What should I know about it?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I just\/I know that there are people kind of deconstructing everything about their evangelical childhood\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; oh, yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014right?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> That definitely is true.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They are processing what <em>Adventures in Odyssey<\/em> was all about; they are processing what <em>VeggieTales<\/em> was all about.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They are finding the good, the bad, and the ugly in all of it. I just wondered if you are tuning in to hear what they are saying.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I try not to. If I see it on Twitter<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, you know, there is a little social media that I have to follow just to not to be dead\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014you know? I\u2019d be written off as: \u201cToo bad he died. Haven\u2019t seen him on Twitter,\u201d\u2014because they\u2019ll actually have a funeral for you; people will show up. [Laughter] If you don\u2019t show up on social media for six months, you\u2019re\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019re dead.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014your obituary shows up in the <em>Chicago Tribune<\/em>. [Laughter] So, I have to do, at least, a little bit.\n\nI\u2019ve bumped into so many kids\u2014and these college-aged kids\/young adults, who just say the same thing\u2014they say, \u201cThank you for my childhood,\u201d\u2014because they were in a home, where there was so much media that was considered just not beneficial: \u201cIt was like the one thing that we can all agree on that we actually enjoy that my parents wanted me to watch AND I wanted to watch was <em>VeggieTales<\/em>.\u201d\n\nTo realize, you\u2019ve been that central in someone\u2019s childhood gives you a real\u2014I mean, Mr. Rogers is one of my heroes; you know? He was so central to so many childhoods\u2014and have just a little\/just a little bit of that is like the coolest thing in the world.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you\u2019re deconstructing the original <em>VeggieTales<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes?\u2014am I, Bob?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019re getting a chance to do this.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He is.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Oh, yes; okay.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Because, by making 18 new\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u201418 new ones.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014episodes\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019re getting a chance to say, \u201cHere\u2019s how I would do it today.\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, what are you doing today that\u2019s different than what you were doing 25 years ago?\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; not assuming that kids can adopt a Christian behavior simply because you\u2019ve told them to adopt the Christian behavior; you know?\u2014\u201cBe forgiving because God says so.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Trying to shift the lesson to be a little less about us and a little more about God; because if we learn how forgiving God is, it can <em>inspire<\/em> us to want to be more forgiving rather than oblige us.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Move from character qualities to the biblical anchor.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> More theology.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> More to theology: \u201cWhat does the Bible teach us about forgiveness?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is something\u2014I bring this up because you talked about this in the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> video series that you were a part of. By the way, thank you for being a part of that.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Oh, you\u2019re welcome. I hope to see it someday. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019re kind of past the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em> phase; but\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; I am.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014we can get you a copy of it before you\u2019re done here. You talked about the fact that, if we try to produce or urge our children to produce flesh-generated character, that can work for a while\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014but that\u2019s ultimately going to fail them. We\u2019ve got to teach them how to\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014live from the Spirit.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> The fruit of the Spirit is, in fact, called the fruit of the <em>Spirit<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> It\u2019s not the \u201cfruit of John,\u201d or \u201cthe fruit of Sam,\u201d or \u201cthe fruit of Mary\u201d; it\u2019s the fruit of the Spirit because <em>you<\/em> can\u2019t make it on your own. You know, I\u2019ve heard so many people teach the fruit of the Spirit and say, \u201cOkay; now, you need to do better at this.\u201d Like, \u201cNo, that\u2019s the whole point\u2014is you can\u2019t\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cYou can\u2019t\u201d; yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cdo better at this,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s Paul\u2019s point. This will only happen, not when you\u2019re focused on those things\/not when you are focused on behaving better, but when you\u2019re focused on walking with Jesus. When you walk with Jesus, you become a different kind of tree; and a different kind of tree produces different kind of fruit, whether it wants to or not.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> That\u2019s such, I think, a freeing message for kids that, to follow Jesus doesn\u2019t mean you have to perfect yourself. It\u2019s not an exercise in self-perfection. It\u2019s simply following Jesus.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Be root-focused, not fruit-focused.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> OH!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s good; that works.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Did you use that in a sermon?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I wish I could say I did. [Laughter] I would love to say I did.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019ll be in the next sermon; won\u2019t it?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, what\u2019s sort of funny about it is\u2014it came from a kid, who grew up listening and watching <em>VeggieTales<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Really?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; my son.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Oh, wow!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He said that in a sermon, and I wrote it down like that. It\u2019s a good one; you know? Because that\u2019s what we do\u2014we are fruit-focused; that\u2019s all about behavior.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s like: \u201cNo; it\u2019s about the root, Jesus, the vine.\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> We do this same thing in other areas of our lives, where we\u2019re focused on the outcomes\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014not on obedience.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is why I love being able to recommend a book like <em>Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids<\/em> because I know the worldview\/the theological worldview that is informing the telling of these stories. This the perspective parents are going to be passing on to their kids, and I\u2019m just thrilled to have this. I\u2019m thrilled that you were able to spend a little time with us and talk about this.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Well, thank you. I think a lot of parents, deep down, are afraid that the Bible actually doesn\u2019t make sense; and if we actually try to read it all with our kids, it\u2019s just not going to make sense. This is the privilege\u2014is to point out: \u201cNo; it does.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u201cThe Bible makes sense. It tells a story; it\u2019s cohesive; and it\u2019s a cohesive way of life to follow Jesus.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Phil, you\u2019ve done a great job of threading the whole storyline of seeing Jesus from the beginning to the end. It\u2019s beautifully illustrated, and I would encourage every parent to get this book\/every grandparent because you will love it. It\u2019s deep; and yet, it\u2019s simple. It\u2019s something that every household, I think, should have this. I\u2019m going to get these for our grandkids.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Thanks for being with us.\n\n<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Thanks for having me.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got copies of the <em>Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids<\/em> that\u2019s\u2014that\u2019s really for elementary-aged kids; and then we\u2019ve got the <em>Laugh and Learn Bible for Little Ones<\/em> that\u2019s for younger\/preschool kids. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to get your copy of either of those or multiple copies if you\u2019d like.\n\nIn fact, we\u2019re doing something\u2014I mentioned this earlier\u2014we\u2019re doing, this week, those of you, who are longtime <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners\u2014and you know who you are: you\u2019ve listened for a while; you like the program; you tune in regularly\u2014we want to ask you to join us as FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Legacy Partners.\n\nDavid Robbins, who is the president of FamilyLife, is here with us. Explain for our listeners what a Legacy Partner is.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> Legacy Partners are people who come alongside FamilyLife and: \u201cI believe in what you do. I believe in getting biblical practical help and hope out to parents and families and marriages.\u201d They join us month to month; they commit to a specific amount and join us, month to month, in helping us be on air in your community. We did a survey recently and asked our Legacy Partners why they give, month to month, because it is certainly a commitment.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> Julia told us\u2014and I quote: \u201cWe truly believe that the family is the conduit for Christ in neighborhoods, towns, and states; and that FamilyLife is a true vehicle of God\u2019s plan and love for the family, and one of the major hopes for the future.\u201d Thanks, Julia\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> \u2014first of all. Let me just say, \u201cThanks,\u201d to Legacy Partners because that is our desire\u2014to be a conduit for Christ in your community.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, we like to see our number of Legacy Partners grow this month. We\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry, who have come along, and say, \u201cWe\u2019d like to help you with that.\u201d They\u2019ve agreed that anybody who, this week, becomes a brand-new Legacy Partner\u2014they are going to match every donation that new Legacy Partner makes in 2020. They are going to match it, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $30,000. That is a pretty good deal, so your Legacy Partner gift gets double duty when you become a Legacy Partner this week.\n\nIn addition, we\u2019ll send you a copy of the <em>Laugh and Learn Bible for Kids<\/em> as a thank-you gift\u2014the book we\u2019ve been talking about today\u2014we\u2019ll send that to you; <em>and<\/em> we\u2019ll send you a certificate so that either you and your spouse, or another couple you know, can attend a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway as our guests. That\u2019s because we love our Legacy Partners, and we want to connect with you.\n\nIn fact, we\u2019re going to be having a phone call next month, in about two or three weeks, with Legacy Partners. This is just something where Dave and Ann and I get on the phone and do some interaction with Legacy Partners about questions you\u2019ve got about marriage, and family, or ideas you have for our program. It\u2019s just a way to connect with those of you who are highly invested in what we are doing.\n\nIf you\u2019d like to become a new Legacy Partner, take advantage of the matching gift that is going on; get the <em>Laugh and Learn Bible<\/em>; get the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> gift certificate\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com and sign on\u2014say, \u201cI want to become a Legacy Partner\u201d; or call us, and we\u2019ll take care of it by phone. The website is FamilyLifeToday.com. The phone number is 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nThose of you who are going to join us, as Legacy Partners, thank you, in advance, for being a part of the team. We are grateful for you, and we appreciate you. We hope to take full advantage of this matching-gift opportunity this week. Pray for us on that, if you will.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to transition from talking about having little kids at home to talking about when the nest is empty: \u201cWhat happens after all the kids are gone?\u201d Jill Savage is going to join us to talk about having a full life when the nest is empty. I hope you can join us for that as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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