{"id":305754,"date":"2020-02-13T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-02-13T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/loving-your-spouse-without-ever-touching\/"},"modified":"2020-02-13T06:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-02-13T11:00:04","slug":"loving-your-spouse-without-ever-touching","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/loving-your-spouse-without-ever-touching\/","title":{"rendered":"Loving Your Spouse Without Ever Touching"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Guest: Ann Wilson, Dave Wilson | Series: Expressing Love Without Touching | Pastor Dave Wilson and his wife, Ann, talk about the value of communicating love to your spouse using non-sexual touch. They share stories about their failures and successes.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/.<br \/>\n \tThe Weekend to Remember\u00ae https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/weekend-to-remember\/<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<br \/>\n \tHave the FamilyLife Today\u00ae podcast and resources helped you?\u00a0 Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Pastor Dave Wilson and his wife, Ann, talk about the value of communicating love to your spouse using non-sexual touch. They share stories about their failures and successes.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-02-13.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:56","filesize":"26.49M","filesize_raw":"27779191","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2082,2088,2862],"tags":[6821],"podcast_series":[8196],"cwp_profile":[3554,3295],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305754","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-communication","category-romance-and-sex","category-understanding-differences","tag-communicating-love","podcast_series-expressing-love-without-touching","cwp_profile-ann-wilson","cwp_profile-dave-wilson","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305754\/loving-your-spouse-without-ever-touching","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305754\/loving-your-spouse-without-ever-touching","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"IlA01VCHJ4\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/loving-your-spouse-without-ever-touching\/\">Loving Your Spouse Without Ever Touching<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/loving-your-spouse-without-ever-touching\/embed\/#?secret=IlA01VCHJ4\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Loving Your Spouse Without Ever Touching&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"IlA01VCHJ4\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Pastor Dave Wilson and his wife, Ann, talk about the value of communicating love to your spouse using non-sexual touch. They share stories about their failures and successes.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-02-13.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019ve heard it said\u2014but it\u2019s true\u2014there are times when a wife isn\u2019t looking for her husband to solve her problems. She is looking for her husband to emotionally process life with her. Here\u2019s Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, this one time, Dave came home; and I was sitting at the kitchen table <em>so<\/em> frustrated. Dave comes home\u2014he goes, \u201cWhat\u2019s going on?\u201d\u00a0 I started venting about my day: \u201cThis happened. I feel terribly. I feel like I have no <em>life<\/em>! I feel like I\u2019m just\u2026\u201d\u2014it was just going on. Dave looks at me and goes, \u201cI\u2019ll be right back.\u201d He comes downstairs with this piece of paper, numbered one to ten. I thought, \u201cHe went up there and wrote me this sweet, little encouraging note.\u201d\u00a0 Then, I read it aloud: \u201cNumber one, get more organized.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Pretty good stuff; huh?\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 I mean, this is not an exaggeration\u2014that\u2019s how <em>clueless<\/em> I was!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>[Laughter] This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, February 13<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. When it comes to expressing love in marriage, sometimes, as husbands, we just need to nod our heads and say, \u201cThat sounds really hard.\u201d\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk more about that today. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You really did that?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No, I did not, Bob. [Laughter] I don't remember anything about that.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wait, wait, wait. He really\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He absolutely did that, Bob; yes. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>But wait until you hear what she did with my little piece of paper.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We're going to hear that today; because we thought, that with Valentine's Day here in view, we ought to\u2014\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave: \u201c<\/strong>Don't do that.\u201d \u201cDon't do that on Valentine's Day!\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We ought to bring you into romantic mistakes that the Wilsons have made. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>There have been many.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s going to be a <em>long<\/em> conversation.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> For Mary Ann and me, Valentine's Day is kind of like\u2014not\u00a0 a big deal. We don't get cards for each other; we don't. We typically\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Bob!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I know; I know.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wait; wait. What are you talking about over there? I get <em>you<\/em> a card.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You don't have to call me out on radio. [Laughter] People are listening to this. C'mon; tell them how good I am.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you have a special date on Valentine's Day every year?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, we usually go out. C'mon!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, we do. If we're not on the<em> Love Like You Mean It<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>cruise.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And if you're on the cruise, that's just a week-long date,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That is very special.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014which is, by the way, where we are right now. We're all on the <em>Love Like You Mean <\/em>It marriage cruise, so our Valentine's Day should be pretty special. I get points. Don't I get points?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>No.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>C'mon Bob; you're working. [Laughter] C'mon; it doesn't count.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We want to talk about romance and how you cultivate romance. I think the title of this message that you gave on the cruise a couple of years ago was \u201cHow to Express Love without Touching.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That was, actually, <em>your<\/em> title, [Bob]. [Laughter] Dave and I were thinking, \u201c<em>How<\/em> do we communicate this?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Actually, I said, \u201cI don't think you can; you have to touch.\u201d But no, we ended up figuring out a way to make Bob's title a talk that\u2014it helped us; I hope it helped others.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, let's listen. This is Dave and Ann Wilson talking about loving your spouse without touching.\n\n[Recorded Message]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It was year eight or nine\u2014so that meant we had two little ones.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right? I remember walking, in a moment, in the kitchen. The kids were down or something\u2014they weren\u2019t around. So, I went over and just <em>laid<\/em> one on her, and I thought it was a really Valentine\u2019s-like romantic <em>moment<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014even though it wasn\u2019t Valentine\u2019s Day\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It didn\u2019t matter.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014which, when he did that, if he would have done that in the early years, I\u2019d have been, \u201cThis is awesome!\u201d\u2014but here\u2019s what I said\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; that\u2019s what she says\u2014I don\u2019t remember that.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Here\u2019s what I said to him, like, \u201cI know what you want.\u201d\u00a0 He goes, \u201cWell, I <em>hope<\/em> so!\u201d\u2014basically. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No; I actually said, \u201cI don\u2019t want that right <em>now, <\/em>just later.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Here\u2019s what I was thinking\u2014I said to Dave\u2014I said, \u201cI feel like the only time you touch me is when you do want that.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cIt feels like the romance\u2014like for you just to kiss me, or hug me, or hold my hand\u2014like that touching is all gone and this is the only touching that is left.\u201d And it kind of took us into a fight.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; it was a really fun moment right there. [Laughter]\u00a0 But here\u2019s what I do remember about that moment\u2014and it really frames where we want to go tonight\u2014she started to talk to me about non-sexual touch. We had this discussion about affection and romance that was there in the early days of our marriage and had gone away, primarily, because of me.\n\nAs we talk to couples around the country for the last 30-some years, we find a <em>lot<\/em> of people go through that; right?\u2014you know, there\u2019s not non-sexual touch in the relationship.\n\nWe discovered something you already know, and it\u2019s Romance 101 really\u2014it\u2019s like men and women are different. Did you notice that?\u00a0 We\u2019re just different\/we\u2019re <em>wired<\/em> differently\u2014physically, emotionally. In fact, I read a statistic that said, \u201cEight out of ten times, you can tell men and women are different physically.\u201d\u00a0 So, I\u2019m not just talking physical\u2014[Laughter]\u2014just seeing if you\u2019re listening!\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nBut if you even go back to the original Scriptures\u2014first book: the Book of Genesis, which means \u201cbeginning\u201d\u2014when you read how God created us\u2014and I know I\u2019m not reading something you probably haven\u2019t heard before\u2014but in Genesis, Chapter 1, the first chapter of the first book of the Bible says, \u201cGod made mankind in His own image, in the image of God He created them male and female.\u201d\n\nAnd right there, you\u2019re like: \u201cSo, where did these differences come from?\u2014where?\u201d\u2014\u201cGod!\u201d\u00a0 God\u2019s literally made man and woman <em>completely<\/em> different. Again, we\u2019re joking about physically; but I mean, are we completely wired differently?\u00a0 I mean\u2014I\u2019m not saying every woman is this way or every man\u2019s this way\u2014there\u2019s definitely crossover\u2014but <em>generally<\/em>, men are a certain way and women are too; right?\n\nYou go into the New Testament\u2014Ephesians 5. I just want to take you to the end of Ephesians 5, because we don\u2019t have time to develop all the way through it; but if you look at the <em>very<\/em> beginning of Ephesians 5, Paul writes to the church in Ephesus\u2014he says, \u201cBe imitators of Christ.\u201d\u00a0 So we\u2014if we are followers of Christ\u2014we are supposed to mimic or look like Christ.\n\nHe, then, tells us, in verse 18, how to do that\u2014he says, \u201cBe filled with the Holy Spirit.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s how you do it, because we can\u2019t do it a part from the Spirit of God; but then, he goes on to say, \u201cOkay; if you\u2019re filled with Holy Spirit, God\u2019s Spirit is living in you and empowering you. This is what it looks like in marriage and in relationships\u2026\u201d\n\nMany of you know this\u2014it\u2019s the classic text on New Testament, or biblical, or Christian marriage. There it is: \u201cHusbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church.\u201d\u00a0 Then, at the very end\u2014I know many of you have heard this\u2014Paul ends it this way\u2014he says, \u201cSo, again, I say, \u2018Each man must love his wife as he loves himself; and the wife must respect her husband.\u2019\u201d\n\nNow, it\u2019s interesting that Paul uses two different words when it comes to women and men\/wives and husbands. He says to <em>what<\/em> your wife?\u2014to love her. But he doesn\u2019t say, \u201clove your husband,\u201d\u2014he says, \u201crespect your husband.\u201d\u00a0 Why?\u00a0 I believe\/I hope you believe the Word of God is <em>inspired<\/em> by God. Paul wrote it in his own personality, but God literally inspired each word. So, it wasn\u2019t just coincidence that he said, \u201clove your wife\u201d\/\u201drespect your husband\u201d\u2014it\u2019s based on those differences.\n\nSo, when Ann and I thought, \u201cOkay; how do you love your spouse without touching?\u201d it\u2019s going to go along the lines of \u201cWhat does a woman need?\u201d\u2014love\/\u201cWhat does a man need?\u201d\u2014respect; and \u201cWhat would that look like?\u201d\n\nSo, here is what we decided to do\u2014we thought, \u201cOkay; let\u2019s take that word, touch\u201d\u2014because we\u2019re going to use the letters T-O-U-C-H for women and, then, for men; we\u2019ll go back and forth; okay?\u00a0 So, we\u2019re just going to go back and forth.\n\n\u201cWhat does it look like for a woman? What does a woman really want?\u00a0 We\u2019ve put this\u2014the first letter for \u201cT\u201d is she wants communication\u2014so we call it \u201cTaaaalk.\u201d\u00a0 And I put a bunch of \u201cA\u201ds in there; because women don\u2019t want to talk\u2014they want to taaaalk about the <em>relationship<\/em>; right?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And here\u2019s the thing\u2014I think, with women, we bond through communication. If you put two women in a room\u2014we will know <em>so much<\/em> about each other; won\u2019t we?\u00a0 We\u2019ll know the names of your kids, what you\u2019ve been going through, how\u2019s your marriage\u2014we know that stuff because we go <em>deep<\/em> in our discussions.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>They look at each other, face to face\u2014that\u2019s how women communicate. Do you know how men communicate?\u2014shoulder to shoulder. But women\u2014man, they sit together. I mean, we just wrote this: \u201cWords matter.\u201d\u00a0 And these are sort of personal for our marriage: \u201cTender words\/positive words.\u201d\u00a0 So, guys, I would say this: \u201cI have learned\u2014I\u2019m not great\u2014but I have learned: \u201cMan, if I want to light up her world\/if I want her to feel <em>loved<\/em> without touch, the \u2018T\u2019 is communicate,\u201d\u2014and it means taaalk.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe go out on a regular date night every week. We went to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> as an <em>engaged<\/em> couple. We heard Dennis and Barbara Rainey say, \u201cYou need to date.\u201d\u00a0 We laughed, like, \u201cWho needs to date once they are married?\u201d\u00a0 You need to date! And when we go out on a date, we taaalk over a nice <em>meal<\/em>. <em>None<\/em> of that is what I want to do!\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 I don\u2019t want to spend any money at a nice restaurant. I just want to go watch a movie, go home, and make <em>love<\/em>\u2014that\u2019s what I want to do. [Laughter] I\u2019m not kidding.\n\nBut I\u2019ve realized that it isn\u2019t about me\u2014it\u2019s about: \u201cWhat would make her feel loved?\u201d\u2014a nice meal\/taaalking. And you know, it\u2019s like\u2014it\u2019s just so important that\u2014like even when she\u2019s going through something, she wants to taaalk about it; and I want to fix it.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, this one time, Dave came downstairs\u2014he came home, and I was sitting at the kitchen table <em>so <\/em>frustrated\u2014our boys were little\/they were young\u2014had the <em>worst<\/em> day ever. Somebody had an ear infection; they were fighting\u2014all that.\n\nDave comes home\u2014he goes, \u201cWhat\u2019s going on?\u201d\u00a0 And I said: \u201cIt has been the worst day. Sit down. Let me just tell you about this.\u201d\u00a0 I start venting about my day: \u201cThis happened. I feel terrible. I feel like I have no <em>life<\/em>! I feel like I am just\u2026\u201d\u2014just was going on. Dave looks at me and goes, \u201cOh my gosh; I\u2019ll be right back.\u201d\u00a0 He goes upstairs; and I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhy is he leaving?\u201d\n\nHe comes downstairs with this piece of paper. I thought: \u201cOh my gosh; he wrote me a love note up there. [Laughter] He went up there and wrote me this sweet, little, encouraging note.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cWhat\u2019s that?\u201d\u00a0 He goes: \u201cWell, I went upstairs and I prayed. I felt like God gave me something for you.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m like, \u201cOh!\u201d\u00a0 He hands it to me, and it is numbered one to ten. I look at it; and I\u2019m thinking, \u201cTen ways to tell you I love you and how you are a great mom.\u201d\n\n\u201cNumber one\u201d\u2014and I read it out loud\u2014\u201cNumber one, get more organized.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Pretty good stuff; huh?\u2014[Laughter]\u2014pretty good. I\u2019m up here, leading you tonight; alright?\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 Men, do not write this down! This is a <em>bad<\/em> moment.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And it got worse. It <em>got<\/em> worse.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It got much worse.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Every one of those was all of that. I was like\u2014I mean, it was like steam was coming out of my ears\u2014I said to him, \u201cYou think\u2014you prayed about this?!\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I did pray about it. [Laughter]\u00a0 I did!\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I took the piece of paper\u2014I said, \u201cHere\u2019s what I think of this paper.\u201d\u00a0 And I took it, and I ripped it up, and I threw it in his face. I said, \u201cThat was not from God!\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And I said: \u201cThat was from God. You just ripped up the word of God.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 I mean, this is not an exaggeration\u2014that\u2019s <em>exactly<\/em> how it went down. That\u2019s how <em>clueless<\/em> I was. So, ladies, if you\u2019re married to [someone like] me, then, there\u2019s hope; right?!\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 You\u2019re going to make, maybe. I mean, I had <em>no<\/em> idea what she really wanted. What did she really want?\u2014every woman here knows. She wanted me just to <em>listen<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong><em>Listen<\/em>. Don\u2019t fix it!\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014be part of it with her.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Just listen to me and nod your head, like: \u201cWow! You\u2019re amazing!\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s all I wanted. But Dave\u2014it\u2019s so hard for him\u2014it\u2019s like: \u201cOh, I can fix that!\u00a0 Oh, I can\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And now, I\u2019ve learned. She goes into that\u2014I just sit at the table and go, \u201cOh, yes; that must have been hard.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 And when it\u2019s all over, she\u2019s like: \u201cOh, thank you!\u00a0 That was so helpful.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m like, \u201cI did <em>absolutely<\/em> <em>nothing<\/em>!\u201d; right?\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 But that\u2019s that taaalk; alright? So, if we see you on the boat and I see you go, \u201cTaaalk,\u201d\u2014okay; we\u2019ll get it. So, that\u2019s the first\u2014the \u201cT\u201d for women.\n\n\u201cT\u201d for men\u2014alright; I was going to say, \u201cTouch,\u201d\u2014I was. That\u2019s what I wanted to put in.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s like: \u201cWe can\u2019t start with that.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Okay; so, the \u201cT\u201d is \u201cThank him.\u201d\u00a0 And this is true; isn\u2019t it, men?\u00a0 Men\u2014I mean, I\u2019m sort of representing you right now; but respect is: \u201cAppreciate who he is. <em>Notice<\/em> what he does. Affirm <em>privately<\/em>\/affirm <em>publicly<\/em>.\u201d\u00a0 Well, let me tell you\u2014we are, us men\u2014we are like little boys. We <em>long<\/em> for somebody to respect us, somebody to notice us, somebody to affirm us.\n\nLet me tell you, ladies\u2014you probably know this\u2014but if you <em>ever<\/em> tear him down in public, you are <em>crushing<\/em> the soul of your man. You will probably never understand it\u2014we are like twelve-year-old boys, like: \u201cWatch me!\u00a0 Watch me!\u00a0 Watch me do the nay nay!\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you know, it is like we\u2019re saying that\u2014but \u201cWatch me!\u201d When our wife tears us down privately or, especially, publicly\u2014let me tell you the opposite is true. When you <em>affirm<\/em> your man alone, behind closed doors, and also in public\u2014thank him, appreciate, <em>notice<\/em> what we do\u2014it\u2019s absolutely life-giving to a man.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think what I realized was I had these expectations. Instead of thanking Dave for the things that he did do, I was just complaining about the things that he didn\u2019t do.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And for you, that was totally un-motivating.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, one night we were sitting down. We\u2019d been talking about this in our relationship, and I was just trying to explain to her how much it means to me. We sat down, and she was reading a book about it. We sat down\u2014the boys were all in the house at the time. All she did was say, \u201cHey, before we eat, I want to say something to Dad.\u201d\u00a0 She turned to me\u2014she goes: \u201cThank you for all you do for this family. Thank you for working so hard to provide the money that provides this. Thank you for\u2026\u201d\u2014I mean, she just went through about four or five things.\n\nAs she said it, I was thinking: \u201cThe books right there. She\u2019s just doing what the book told her to do\u201d\u2014you know\u2014 \u201cI know that\u2019s what it is.\u201d\u00a0 But as she did it, my chest started puffing out; you know?\u00a0 I could <em>feel<\/em> it inside\u2014like, \u201cI am the man; aren\u2019t I?!\u201d\u00a0 It was just like unbelievable. Our boys\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So, for you guys, that\u2019s totally motivating.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, it was like, \u201cI will take down the <em>world<\/em> for you, because you appreciate and notice what I\u2019m doing.\u201d\u00a0 Am I right, guys?!\n\n<strong>Audience: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Wow.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So, women, thank him. Out there in the pool\u2014stand up\/have your man stand up, and thank him in front of the <em>whole<\/em> boat; alright?\u00a0 [Laugher]\n\nAlright; let\u2019s go to the \u201cO\u201d. We\u2019ve got to fly. So, the \u201cT\u201d for women\u2014it was talk. Now, for women\u2014we\u2019ll go back to women\u2014for guys, here\u2019s what they want\u2014is for us to \u201cOpen up.\u201d\u00a0 What does that mean?\u00a0 I just put down this: \u201cLevel Five\u2014share your heart\/be vulnerable.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So, let\u2019s talk about it a little bit.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>For us, as women, we long for you guys\u2014we long to know what\u2019s going on inside. And I know for some of you guys, you\u2019re like, \u201cI don\u2019t even know what\u2019s going on inside;\u201d you know?\u00a0 But for us, as women, we want to <em>know<\/em> you\u2014we want to know your hopes, your dreams, your fears. We want to know what you\u2019re thinking about stuff.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, Level Five Communication\u2014if you\u2019ve ever been to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>, we use the chart there. Level One is, like, clich\u00e9\u2014it doesn\u2019t mean anything. When you get down to Level Five, Level Five means I\u2019m sharing my heart\/I\u2019m being vulnerable.\n\nI\u2019ve discovered that makes Ann feel loved when I share with her my fears, my weaknesses, the things I\u2019m struggling with rather than hiding it. I don\u2019t share that with any other woman on the planet\u2014that\u2019s wrong and inappropriate. I will share with my best buddies, and I\u2019ll share it with Ann. She\u2019s the only one that gets my heart. But I\u2019ve learned over the years, when I go there with her, it makes her feel <em>loved<\/em> without touch\u2014it\u2019s unbelievable!\n\nI remember, years ago\u2014you know, I\u2019m the Detroit Lions chaplain. Anybody know that?\u00a0 Detroit Lions fans?\u2014okay; I didn\u2019t think so. [Whistles and shouts]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>There\u2019s more here than in Detroit! I <em>never<\/em> hear that in Detroit.\n\nBut one of the things we used to do\u2014I\u2019ve been doing this 32 years. Like 20 years ago\u2014long story short\u2014we would take players into high schools during the off season\u2014five of us\u2014and do an assembly, and compete against their athletes, and then talk about Jesus in a public high school. It was awesome. The guys would all wear these tank tops that said \u201cPro Challenge.\u201d\n\nWell, one day, one of our players didn\u2019t show up. So, I had to compete with them like I was one of the guys; right?\u00a0 You can imagine what a NFL player looks like in a tank top; alright?\u00a0 You don\u2019t need to imagine what <em>I<\/em> look like in a tank top; alright?\u00a0 I\u2019m standing in this school, and they are introducing us; right?\u00a0 Beside me is a guy named Chris Spielman, who was a guy\u2014at the time, was a linebacker\u2014big guy. We all called him \u201cMr. Meat\u201d\u2014just ripped. I\u2019m standing beside him in my little tank top.\n\nAnd there is a teacher, on the wall, like ten feet down. I hear the teacher look down and go: \u201cHey! Who is that little guy down there?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nAnd Chris hears it and goes, \u201cDid you hear that?\u201d\u00a0 I go, \u201cNo!\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 Then, I hear, and I can see it over here\u2014I can hear the other teachers sort of look down and go, \u201cOh, he must be a <em>kicker<\/em> or something.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 And Chris starts laughing\u2014nothing against kickers\/if any of you are kickers, I <em>love<\/em> you\u2014you\u2019re awesome. But I was a quarterback, and I was an Hall of Fame quarterback. So, that was like, \u201cA <em>kicker<\/em>?!\u201d\u2014right?\n\nSo, anyway, the day goes on. I come home that night. My ego had been sort of hit; you know?\u00a0 Ann and I get the boys down to bed. We\u2019re sitting in the family room, and Ann says to me\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, he\u2019s real quiet.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And he just seems different. I said: \u201cHey, so, what happened today?\u00a0 It seems like something happened. Are you okay?\u201d\u00a0 He goes: \u201cYes, I\u2019m fine. It was good.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I was Level One\u2014\u201cNot going there\u201d; you know?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And I kept pushing, like: \u201cI know something happened,\u201d\u2014like, \u201cWhat happened?\u00a0 Come on. Share it with me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So, <em>finally<\/em>, she says, \u201cOkay; I won\u2019t ask anymore, but you <em>seem<\/em> like something happened today.\u201d\n\nAnd I go, \u201cWell, we were at this high school, and this guy said\u2026\u201d and I had no humor. \u201cIt was just like, \u2018I\u2019m a <em>kicker<\/em> now,\u2019\u201d\u2014you know, sort of like that. And she is <em>so<\/em> wise\u2014she <em>knew<\/em> that my little male ego had been hit, and I\u2019ll <em>never<\/em> forget this night until I die.\n\nShe said, \u201cDave Wilson turn off the TV.\u201d\u00a0 I hit the mute button and then I turned\u2014[Laughter] I\u2019m kidding!\u00a0 Do <em>not<\/em> say: \u201cOh! It\u2019s okay to hit the mute.\u201d\u00a0 No; the TV went off; right?\u00a0 I turned, and she like looked me\u2014it\u2019s like this\u2014she put her hands on my knees and she\u2019s like 18 inches away\u2014and she looks right in my eyes\u2014and she doesn\u2019t even remember it. I could tell you <em>exactly<\/em> what she said: \u201cI\u2019ve got to tell you something. <em>You<\/em> have a <em>great<\/em> body,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what she said. So, what you\u2019re learning here is: \u201cSometimes, it\u2019s okay to lie in marriage.\u201d [Laughter]\u00a0 But she said that\u2014she sort of had a little smile on her face.\n\nThen she said this\u2014she goes: \u201cI want you to know something. You are a good man; you are a man of God. You lead me, and you lead the boys spiritually; and don\u2019t you ever forget what a real man is. That\u2019s what a man is. It is not about pecs or a chest. It\u2019s about walking with Jesus and leading us, and you are that man. Thank you for being that man.\u201d\u00a0 [Applause]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right; right.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So, why do I remember that?!\u2014because it was a moment of respect in my <em>marriage<\/em> that I\u2019ll <em>never<\/em> forget. Here\u2019s what I thought before I opened up and went to Level Five with her\u2014I thought\u2014well, when I finally did\u2014it\u2019s like: \u201cI\u2019m giving her a gift\u201d\u2014right?\u2014\u201cI know she likes this; here we go.\u201d\u00a0 Who got the gift?\u00a0 Whew!\u2014it came back\u2014so she feels loved\/I feel respected. I\u2019m just telling you: \u201c<em>Guys<\/em>, it\u2019s worth the risk and fear to go there.\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, we\u2019ve been listening to the first part of a message from Dave and Ann Wilson about loving one another without touching\u2014really getting to the heart of what romance and love is all aboutin a marriage.\n\nI think what you said at the end about the fear and risk for a guy to open up and be vulnerable and say: \u201cThis is what I'm thinking,\u201d \u201cThis is what I'm feeling,\u201d\u2014that's real for so many men.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is scary. We sort of, often, grow up in a culture that says that big boys don't cry.\n\nWe're tough: \u201cMan up,\u201d \u2014there's a phrase for you. To be vulnerable, especially with your wife, is\u2014for a lot of guys, they will not go there. And I mean it\u2014for every man and for me\u2014when you go there, not only do you find life coming back to your soul\u2014I never knew this\u2014your wife feels loved, which is a beautiful gift to your wife.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That evening was such a great gift to me. And, it makes me want to go to Level Five with you; I really mean it. We, as women, long for that. I think we often do it in our relationships, and it may come easier for us. For us to <em>know<\/em> our husbands\u2014to know what they're feeling\/to know what they are afraid of\u2014that really does mean a lot.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Here's the thing, I think, for a lot of guys\u2014I've felt this before\u2014if I am open and make myself vulnerable, the risk is\u2014you're going to take that and you're going to know how to hurt me.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You're going to know how to wound me, so I'm going to not give you a tool that you can use against me.\n\nWhy is it so powerful for a woman when she knows that her man has weaknesses? I mean, we think the opposite\u2014you're going to respect us more if all you can see is our strengths. Why is it powerful for a wife if she knows her husband is weak in areas?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think it shows a need\u2014and a need for us, as women, to be partners; we want to partner alongside. For you to be vulnerable says, \u201cI don't have it all together.\u201d For me, it said me, \u201cI need you, Ann.\u201d I really want to be needed.\n\nI also think it's a real gift that we give one another in marriage, where we need to be very, very careful and prayerful before we respond. When we come in\u2014and we're harsh, or we laugh, or we'll use it against one another\u2014I don't think that gift will be given as often.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You guys talk about this more in your book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>. This is a book that we would love for every one of our listeners to have a copy of. In fact, this week, if listeners will help support the ministry of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> with a donation of any amount, we'd like to send you a copy of Dave and Ann Wilson's book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, as a thank-you gift for your support of this ministry. If you already have a copy, and you want to get another copy to pass on to a friend, all you have to do is make a donation, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com and request the book. We're happy to send it out to you.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe're so grateful for listeners who engage with us and say: \u201cThis program matters; it's important. It's making a difference in my life and in my marriage, and it's making enough of a difference that we want to help support you.\u201d Your donations really do matter; they make a difference. They determine how many people we're able to reach with the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. In a very real sense, the donations you make to this ministry are donations to your fellow listeners so that they can hear biblical truth about marriage more often.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nThank you for your support; and again, as a way of saying, \u201cThank you,\u201d this week we'd like to send you a copy of the book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>. You can donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call to donate at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that's 1-800-\u201dF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Again, thanks, in advance, for your support of the ministry. We appreciate you, and we look forward to hearing from you.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nBy the way, the <em>Vertical Marriage <\/em>book is now available as a small group video series as well. I know a lot of people have already heard about this\u2014they're starting to use it. It's a <em>great<\/em> tool\u2014five sessions. The videos are about 25 minutes long, so this works for a Sunday school class, or for a small group, or just for you and your spouse to go through together. Again, find out more about the <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> small group series when you go to our website at FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we are going to hear Part Two of Dave and Ann Wilson\u2019s message about how we express love to one another without touching. It's Valentine's Day tomorrow, so we ought to be thinking about love and marriage and how we can express love to one another. I hope you can tune in.\n\nI mention it's Valentine's Day for those of you who hadn't thought about that yet. You can stop by the store on your way home tonight, or start making plans for what you're going to do to celebrate.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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