{"id":305731,"date":"2020-02-05T06:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-02-05T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/discerning-justice\/"},"modified":"2020-02-05T06:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-02-05T11:00:05","slug":"discerning-justice","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/discerning-justice\/","title":{"rendered":"Discerning Justice"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Author Hannah Anderson talks about justice and our call as Christians to pursue what is just. Learn how to teach your children to promote justice without raising legalists.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-02-05.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:32:31","filesize":"29.78M","filesize_raw":"31224049","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822],"tags":[4403,6382,6820],"podcast_series":[8336],"cwp_profile":[8812],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305731","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-bible-study","tag-discernment","tag-phillipans-4","podcast_series-all-thats-good","cwp_profile-hannah-anderson","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305731\/discerning-justice","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305731\/discerning-justice","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"WTWZH2IpYg\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/discerning-justice\/\">Discerning Justice<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/discerning-justice\/embed\/#?secret=WTWZH2IpYg\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Discerning Justice&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"WTWZH2IpYg\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Author Hannah Anderson talks about justice and our call as Christians to pursue what is just. Learn how to teach your children to promote justice without raising legalists.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-02-05.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019d say: \u201cLet\u2019s get them home at this time. This is what\u2019s happening.\u201d He said: \u201cYou know, they are going to be in college next year. Let\u2019s just kind of see the decisions that they make.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cAre you insane?!\u201d [Laughter] Those were our conversations. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> If I had to do it all over again, I\u2019d go with Ann; and I shouldn\u2019t have given them so much freedom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think we were a good balance, actually. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> I was going to find out what the expert on this subject has to say, because we\u2019ve got her in the studio: Hannah Anderson\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> She was shaking her head too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014with you, she was agreeing with? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She was actually laughing, I think, at us. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Hannah, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s good to be back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Are you glad to be called the expert on these kinds of issues? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Oh, no, no; but I love this tension between concrete and more abstract; because that describes my relationship with my husband, Nathan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Which are you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Oh, I am very abstract. I can\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes; I read her book. You\u2019re very abstract. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> A problem comes up\u2014I will give you 12 different ways we should think about it and the implications for global peace. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You are super objective; aren\u2019t you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Yes; yes. He will look at me, very patiently, and say, \u201cSo, which restaurant do you want to go to?\u201d [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Hannah is a blogger; she\u2019s a podcaster. We\u2019ve got links to her blog and her podcast on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. She has written\u2014this is your third book?\u2014<em>All That\u2019s Good<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> It is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> <em>Made for More<\/em> was the first one; then <em>Humble Roots<\/em>; and now, this one, that\u2019s called <em>All That\u2019s Good<\/em>. <em>All That\u2019s Good<\/em>, as we\u2019ve been saying this week, is an extended meditation on these verses in Philippians, Chapter 4, that say we ought to be thinking about those things that are true, and honorable, and just, and pure, and lovely, and commendable. As we spend more and more time just soaking on the good, that will allow our discernment\u2014not just to say, \u201cThat\u2019s bad,\u201d\u2014but to be able to say, \u201cThis is good, and I\u2019m going to pursue what is good.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know, in your family, I\u2019m pretty sure that you have Ticket to Ride somewhere on the bookshelf; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> We do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; are you big board game people? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> <em>Love<\/em>\u2014love Ticket to Ride. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wait; wait. Ticket to Ride is a <em>game<\/em>? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, see a glimmer of\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Oh, you\u2019ve never\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014competition in your eye. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I thought, <em>Ticket to Ride<\/em>\u2014you want me to play it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> He thought it was a Beatles\u2019 song. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can go play it right now, but\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s a board game, like Settlers of Catan; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Which one do you like better? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Ticket to Ride. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> These are for the genius people. We don\u2019t play board games; we play with rackets. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>[Singing phrase from <em>Ticket to Ride<\/em>]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> I did not play board games for the longest time until we discovered a set of board games\u2014like Ticket to Ride, and Settlers of Catan, and 7 Wonders\u2014and this whole set of board games that have a lot of strategy underneath them\u2014really beautiful boards. I love board games now. I\u2019d never\u2014<em>never<\/em>\u2014played them before. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There is something about board games and <em>All That\u2019s Good<\/em> that comes together; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> It does; because, as a family, we like to make time for playing board games together. That means we also have to make time for the fights\u2014[Laughter]\u2014that emerge from the board games. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I guarantee you these three children that I have\u2014and even myself and my husband; I will include us in this process\u2014you would think that these children have legal careers ahead of them by how they can parse the rules of the game so that they come out on top. [Laughter]\u00a0 It\u2019s <em>unbelievable<\/em> the degree to which they can read the rules and clarify that: \u201cYes; actually, that piece can be moved in that way.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> High sense of justice\u2014and that\u2019s a good thing that they have a high sense of justice; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Yes; very much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Why is that a good thing? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Well, I think, you know, justice\u2014a lot of times, we hear it in legal sense or legal terminology; but really, justice means things are working the way they are supposed to work\u2014that things are <em>right<\/em>\u2014that the way God made the world to function, it is actually functioning that way, whether it\u2019s in our families, in society, in government. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we come to the call to think and to pursue what is just, it\u2019s really a call to pursue the world the way God made it to function\u2014that your life and your choices would align with the way He created things: the way He created us\/the way He created communities to work. When things are not just, that\u2019s when you do see oppression; and that\u2019s when you do see harm; and that\u2019s when the child comes crying to the mother to reconcile things and to be the mediator to make things as they should be again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Justice is a part of God\u2019s character. In fact, I\u2019m thinking of David\u2019s words to Solomon, when David was at the end of his life, and Solomon was going to be the king. David said, \u201cHe who rules over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.\u201d He was saying: \u201cWe have got to treat people with the kind of honor, and dignity, and worth, and value that God created them with. We have got to be God\u2019s agents, treating them with the dignity that was endowed by their Creator\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Absolutely; and we\u2019re also promised that this the way God conducts Himself\u2014that: \u201cShall not the Judge of the earth judge rightly\/judge justly? Shall He not do what He has said He will do?\u201d So many passages in the Old Testament go back to relying on God\u2019s justice\u2014that He sees things are not what they should be; and He is at work, through His Son, actively redeeming and restoring. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is really the hope of the gospel; right? This is justification; this is Christ at work through the gospel\/through His own sacrifice, restoring us in our sinfulness to a right place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, it\u2019s one thing\u2014when you are playing board games, and you\u2019re trying to play by the rules, and the kids are pulling out the rules\u2014it\u2019s another thing when you\u2019ve got a child or a parent who is, what I would call, a high-justice individual and everything has got to be exactly right and: \u201cThey didn\u2019t do their thing, so they shouldn\u2019t get to do this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Is that in your family, too, Bob? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think one of those in most families\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014who is always aware of what\u2019s fair. Well, we did not have to train our kids, when we were raising them, to say, \u201cThat\u2019s not fair!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cThat\u2019s not fair!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They knew it instinctively. How do we promote justice without raising self-righteous legalists? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> I was going to say, \u201cThere is a very fine line between sensitivity to justice and to being a legalist.\u201d I will confess now that I am that person in the family\u2014[Laughter]\u2014that I have a highly-tuned sense of something being not right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the difference, I think, is\u2014again, we go back to what discernment is: \u201cDiscernment is knowing the difference between good and evil so that we can purse goodness.\u201d The trajectory is what\u2019s important. The trajectory of a finely-tuned sense of justice that leads to goodness is a <em>gift<\/em>. We <em>need<\/em> people, who can look at our systems and our structures and say, \u201cThat is not leading us to goodness.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOften, legalism is a finely-tuned sense of justice that leads to self-righteousness. It leads to self-justification; it leads to: \u201cI\u2019m right; you\u2019re wrong.\u201d Again, the same thing really is about: \u201cWhere is it heading? What is the purpose? What is the intent?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And if your pursuit of justice is always so that you are the beneficiary of what is fair, and right, and just, then, maybe, there is something a little off. If you are pursuing justice for others\/if you\u2019re looking at what is fair for the other kids in the game\u2014but if it\u2019s always like, \u201cThat wasn\u2019t fair toward me,\u201d\u2014then, maybe, your focus isn\u2019t where justice ought to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPurity is one of the things that\u2019s on the list in addition to justice. There\u2019s a lot about a culture of purity in our day. Do you want to expand our definition of purity beyond what we think of as moral or sexual purity? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> I do, because I think we can\u2019t understand why God calls us to sexual purity if we don\u2019t understand the <em>larger<\/em> category of purity itself. Sexual purity is an application of a larger vision that God has for His creation and for us, as His sons and daughters. If we look at purity in the Scripture, it is this idea of wholeness\u2014that everything in your life would be operating, internally, with this organic, holistic integrity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we talk about sexual purity, we\u2019re talking about doing something with our bodies that is in opposition to what our hearts or minds might believe; so it\u2019s actually a form of fragmentation. When the Scripture calls us to purity\u2014and one of the classic examples of this is in Malachi, where the Spirit of the Lord comes upon the priests, who had been acting impurely. He testifies against them by saying: \u201cYou said this with your mouth, but you did this with your body. You testified of my statutes, but you were unfaithful to the wives of your youth.\u201d There is this fragmentation that\u2019s happening. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we are pursuing purity, what we are actually pursuing is the wholeness and the healing that the gospel brings to us\u2014that there would not be a disconnect between the faithfulness that we profess to seek and how we use our bodies and how we live in the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is that a synonym for integrity? Is purity\u2014are they the same? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> It is in the sense that purity comes from the idea of wholeness that something\u2014if we talk about \u201cwater is pure,\u201d or \u201cpure gold,\u201d or something that is the same, all the way through. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014through; yes. That\u2019s good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I love the idea of wholeness in purity, because there\u2019s the giving of your soul in the area of giving your body in sex. People tend to fracture that. It\u2019s like: \u201cOh, it\u2019s just a body thing; it\u2019s not a soul thing.\u201d Yet, you\u2019re saying, \u201cPurity is this integrity,\u201d which is integer\u2014whole number. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, wholeness\u2014explain that a little bit more because I think people\u2014really, we tend to want to divide that\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m still pure, even though my words and my body aren\u2019t matching up; but that isn\u2019t really impure. It\u2019s okay\u201d; but you\u2019re saying, \u201cNo, no, no; it can\u2019t be separate.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I am also listening to this in regards to how I would talk to my kids about this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Rather than just saying, \u201cSex is wrong; don\u2019t do it before you get married.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; coach us on that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Right; so raising our children in a highly sex-saturated environment, we have to have these conversations with them as soon as possible\u2014I\u2019ll just give that plug: \u201cGet comfortable with the sex talk, because you are going to be having it a lot\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cif you\u2019re doing it right.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When should that start, Hannah? What do you think? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> As soon as they start asking questions. Give them the answers that they can receive. They\u2019ll usually shut down the conversation when they get the answers they want and move on to something else. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we have to be comfortable having this conversation with our children; but we don\u2019t want to just say, \u201cDon\u2019t have sex before you\u2019re married,\u201d\u2014even though that\u2019s the application that we want to get to\u2014because, again, it\u2019s that negative: \u201cNo sex\u201d; \u201cNo sex\u201d; \u201cNo sex before you\u2019re married\u201d; but we haven\u2019t explained: \u201cWell, why does marriage tip that over? What is it about entering into marriage that, now, you have this massive freedom with your spouse?\u201d What is that underlying <em>goodness<\/em> that we\u2019re trying to reach? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we teach our children, instead, is that the level of intimacy\u2014and soul and body connection\u2014that happens in sex can only be kept safe through faithfulness. It can only be kept safe through commitment, which happens in marriage. The reason we <em>reserve<\/em> this for marriage is because it\u2019s such a powerful, wonderful thing that <em>needs<\/em> to be safeguarded. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got your earphones on, so are you wearing the pearl earrings today? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> I have. I will show you. [Oohs and aaws]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The famous pearl earrings\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They are there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014you talk about. Explain to everybody what is so big about these earrings. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> I have a pair of earrings that I wear almost every day. I only take them out for a special occasion that I might want a slightly different earring. These are earrings that my husband brought back from a trip to Japan\u2014and probably shouldn\u2019t have, given the budget we had at that time in our life\u2014but I\u2019ve worn them now, probably, for ten years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese pearls represent to me something that is beautiful and lovely in this life and how that leads to goodness; because I think, when we read the passage in Philippians 4, we understand why we should pursue truth; we understand honor and justice; we understand purity; and then we come to this word, lovely. We live in a very practical society\/very pragmatic society. The idea that pursuing lovely or beautiful things would help us discern what is good in this life just doesn\u2019t make sense to us. To us, the most discerning thing to do is pursue the thing that is most practical or most efficient. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis really led me down, kind of, a study of: \u201cWhy would beautiful, lovely things draw us to goodness?\u201d It\u2019s because beautiful, lovely things require sacrifice from us. The Scripture talks about the pearl of great price. Jesus teaches about the merchant who found a pearl, so he goes and he sells all that he has so that he can purchase this pearl. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, embedded in that, is a counter-cultural understanding of value. It does not make sense that you would sell all that you have to get a pearl. It does not make sense that the God of the universe would give His Son to die for sinners. The difference is that, if we judge by our value system, we will never arrive at goodness. We must judge by the value system that God presents in the Scripture; and sometimes, it will not make economic sense to us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLoveliness and beauty pulls us above that kind of pragmatic, earthy, mundane, accountant mindset, where everything has to tally before we would risk anything; and it calls us to the kinds of values and practices that invest in the life to come, even if they don\u2019t make economic sense in this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is where we have to define loveliness in biblical terms, not in cultural terms. It\u2019s not defined by the magazines at the check-out counter at the supermarket, or by the fashion shows, or by all of the cultural trappings. We have to know that what God calls lovely may be different than what the world calls lovely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Absolutely; because the same Scripture that calls us to loveliness also says that: \u201cCharm is deceitful\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand beauty is vain; but what is lovely?\u2014a woman who fears the Lord.\u201d That\u2019s true loveliness, and that\u2019s going to require a level of <em>investment<\/em> that doesn\u2019t make sense in this life\/in this world\u2019s values. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, this whole conversation we\u2019ve been having here\u2014I just keep coming back to the big idea which, I think, is really a big idea. I\u2019m so glad you\u2019ve tackled it, Hannah. It is that, as parents\/as Christians, we need to be emphasizing what is good, and pointing to what is good, and celebrating what is good, and pursuing what is good\u2014not ignoring what is wrong, and bad, and evil\u2014but not making that our focus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHannah, tell our listeners the conclusion you came to as you were writing this book about why God had you write this book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Right. I finished this book; I was finishing up the edits, and one of the things they have you do toward the end is write a dedication. I felt compelled, at that point, to write the dedication to my children. I wrote: \u201cFor Phoebe, Harry, and Peter. May you know how much you are loved. May you grow strong, and brave, and wise. May your lives be filled with all that is good.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI finished that up; I sent it off to the publishers. That\u2019s when it hit me\u2014I had been writing this book for my children the whole time. I did not realize that that\u2019s what I was doing in the process; but I think I was feeling some of the weight that, maybe, Solomon felt when he was writing Proverbs to his children and to the young men he was training up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wanted my children to know how to navigate the world. I knew I wouldn\u2019t be with them in every space, where they had to make a decision. What they needed most was a vision of goodness and, then, the ability to learn discernment so they could pursue what was good. For me, this was really a very personal project, even though I didn\u2019t realize it in the moment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting to think\u2014sort of like Solomon\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014he wrote it to a select group of people, and thousands\/hundreds of millions have been affected. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve given a vision of goodness,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Same way\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014not just your kids, but to all of us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Thank you for the book. Thanks for the time, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Whatever you write next, let us know; okay? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. We\u2019ve got copies of Hannah\u2019s book available in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. The book is called <em>All That\u2019s Good<\/em>. You can order it from us online; or if you\u2019d prefer, you can call to order. Our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order the book, <em>All That\u2019s Good<\/em>. The number is 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, I hope this conversation this week has encouraged you to be thinking about things that are good, and right, and noble, and pure. David Robbins, who is the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is here with me. All of us need to recalibrate our thinking from time to time; don\u2019t we? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Oh, yes. I mean, I was listening to the conversation\u2014just reminded how often I focus on the negative\u2014what\u2019s wrong\/put shame on myself\u2014instead of looking at what is right and what is good\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and celebrating it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> \u2014and celebrating it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> At FamilyLife, that is what we desire to do. We want to be <em>known<\/em> for pointing <em>you<\/em> to what is true, to what is noble, to what is honorable, pure, and just\u2014just like Philippians 4 says. This is why we desire to stay committed and rooted in bringing practical biblical help and hope to families every day with <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. This is why we are committed to it and want to get the message to as many people as possible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank many of you, who support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and enable this message to go forward. I want to ask you, if you\u2019re not a part of the team and partnering with us, to become a Legacy Partner today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; and a Legacy Partner is somebody who, on a monthly basis, provides financial support and prayer support for what we\u2019re doing, here at FamilyLife. You guys are a critical part of this effort. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, Legacy Partners and that monthly commitment allows us to really know how we can fuel the mission, going forward, and how far we can take it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, we have an incentive for you to become a Legacy Partner today. You know, we\u2019re about to kick off our spring season of <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways. When you become a Legacy Partner today, we\u2019ll send you a certificate so that you and your spouse, or some other couple you know, can attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> as your guests. The gift card is good for free registration to any upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>. It\u2019s our thank-you gift when you sign up to become a monthly Legacy Partner and help support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re a longtime listener\u2014you\u2019ve benefitted from this program; you want to see it continue in your community, and see us be able to expand and reach more people with practical biblical help and hope for their marriage and family\u2014call 1-800-FL-TODAY and say: \u201cI want to join. I want to become a Legacy Partner\u201d; or go online at FamilyLifeToday.com; and the information about becoming a Legacy Partner is there. Again, we\u2019ll send you the certificate for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> for you or to pass along to someone you know. We hope to hear from you. Look forward to welcoming some new Legacy Partners to the family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us back again tomorrow. We\u2019re going to talk about how we can, as grandparents, make spiritual deposits in the lives of our grandchildren. What can we do that\u2019s more than birthday cards, or Christmas presents, or occasional phone calls? How can we pour into our grandkids\u2019 lives? Larry and Gladine McCall will be joining us. Hope you can join us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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