{"id":305724,"date":"2020-02-03T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-02-03T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-value-of-discernment\/"},"modified":"2020-02-03T06:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-02-03T11:00:04","slug":"the-value-of-discernment","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-value-of-discernment\/","title":{"rendered":"The Value of Discernment"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Too many opinions can be overwhelming. Hannah Anderson tells how she&#8217;s training her children to decide between what&#8217;s good, what&#8217;s bad, and what&#8217;s the best.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-02-03.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:25:43","filesize":"23.54M","filesize_raw":"24683056","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822],"tags":[4403,6382,6820],"podcast_series":[8336],"cwp_profile":[8812],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305724","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-bible-study","tag-discernment","tag-phillipans-4","podcast_series-all-thats-good","cwp_profile-hannah-anderson","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305724\/the-value-of-discernment","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305724\/the-value-of-discernment","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"XQ4D7kwzwo\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-value-of-discernment\/\">The Value of Discernment<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-value-of-discernment\/embed\/#?secret=XQ4D7kwzwo\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Value of Discernment&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"XQ4D7kwzwo\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Too many opinions can be overwhelming. Hannah Anderson tells how she's training her children to decide between what's good, what's bad, and what's the best.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-02-03.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Hannah Anderson is a mom raising kids in a new digital world. And she says things like internet filters\u2014those matter, but they don\u2019t solve every issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Even though I do have boundaries on our internet usage\u2014on what sites they can go to\u2014there is still no way I can control my children as they begin to navigate the world. I can\u2019t keep up with them, and so I learned that what they needed was principles. What they needed was to develop their <em>own<\/em> ability to sort through.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, February 3<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online on FamilyLifetoday.com. Are you training your kids with critical thinking skills? Do they have discernment? How do you do that as a parent? We will talk with Hannah Anderson about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I read a quote\u2014this was a number of months ago, and I\u2019m not going to get it exactly right\u2014but the author was saying that he believes, in the church today, one of the biggest issues\u2014if not the biggest issue\u2014is a lack of discernment. He said, \u201cI think we have got congregations full of indiscriminant, undiscerning people, who will hear something and go, \u201cOh, that sounds good,\u201d and never take it any further than that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow; that\u2019s a big statement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s a big statement. And yet, you look around and you do see people falling for error because they\u2019re not thinking clearly or carefully about what truth is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And they are basing it on their own beliefs, and their passion, and their convictions. That\u2019s kind of where it stops, sometimes\u2014it feels like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And the good news\u2014I don\u2019t know if you know this Bob\u2014but I have been told for decades now that I have the gift of discernment. I always thought that meant I could tell people what they were wrong at\u2014[Laughter]\u2014that was what it meant. No, that\u2019s truly what I was told as, \u201cYou have this gift of discernment.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think you do have that gift.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I thought it really did, for a long time, mean that I was like a prophet in people\u2019s lives, that I could point out sin; and it\u2019s a whole different deal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There is a whole different deal; in fact, a lot of people online now, who are referred to as discernment bloggers. All it means is we just tell you what is wrong with everybody else and why we are right about everything. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the reasons we are diving into this is because, as parents, we want to raise kids, who\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014who know and love truth\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and who are discerning.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and who can tell truth from error. We thought, \u201cWho should we get to talk to us about that, and teach us about that, and\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t me. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It was Hannah Anderson, who is joining us back on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> It\u2019s great to be here again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Hannah does not know what she thinks right now. She\u2019s like, \u201cWho are these unhappy\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She\u2019s trying to discern.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; she is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Hannah is an author; she\u2019s a blogger; she has written a number of books, including a new book that\u2019s all about discernment that\u2019s called A<em>ll That\u2019s Good<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things I love about Hannah is that she goes <em>deep<\/em> into whatever she\u2019s digging into. When you wrote the book, <em>Humble Roots<\/em>\u2014it\u2019s really a book about three verses in the Bible; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> It is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s all about: \u201cCome to Me all of you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest,\u201d\u2014it is an extended meditation on it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is another book that\u2019s about three or four verses in Philippians; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> It is; it\u2019s Philippians 4: 8 and 9.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And that\u2019s a passage that may be familiar to parents because they\u2019ve looked at their kids and said: \u201cWhatever is good, whatever is pure\u201d\u2014I don\u2019t have them all; do you have them memorized? Can you do it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah: <\/strong>I do\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No; you\u2019ve got your Bible open. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> \u2014but I am going to read. [Laughter] So it\u2019s: \u201cWhatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now, I don\u2019t know if I have ever read that passage and thought, \u201cThis is about discernment.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But somehow that switch came on for you. How did that happen?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Well, I think it came on in part because of the verses that precede it. And what we may not recognize is that, immediately before this, Paul is writing the Philippians and he\u2019s addressing something that we wouldn\u2019t necessarily link to discernment. He\u2019s addressing their anxiety about the world around them and how they should conduct themselves in a world that often feels scary and overwhelming and a world that they may not know how to navigate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe says to them: \u201c\u2026to let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand. Do not be anxious about anything; but in everything in prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God\u201d\u2014and then he promises this\u2014\u201cand the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay, we can\u2019t rush passed that; because as you were reading, \u201clet your reasonableness be known to all people,\u201d I\u2019m thinking, \u201cIs that a passage for our day?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Isn\u2019t it; isn\u2019t it?\u2014yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I mean, the circumstances in which we find ourselves\/the anxiety that is around us, this is something\u2014we can read this, and we can apply this in what I\u2019m going through, and I can raise kids, who can understand: \u201cThere\u2019s a way not be overwhelmed by the confusion, the evil, the contradictory thoughts, and opinions of people. There is a way to navigate that\u201d; isn\u2019t there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Absolutely. And when I was reading this passage immediately before the verses that the book is based in, I recognized an environment that is very similar to the one that we live in now; and I think one that is unique, particularly given the digital age. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPeople ask me, \u201cWhat promoted you to write a book about discernment?\u201d Of course, this passage was a significant part of that; but it was also my own experience of logging on and not knowing who to listen to\u2014and suddenly having this disorientation of this <em>wealth<\/em> of information and data pouring into my home\u2014proximity to people I <em>never<\/em> would have been exposed to\/ideas I would <em>never<\/em> have encountered before. Suddenly, I have to sort through that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so I tell people, \u201cI don\u2019t think that we\u2019re uniquely undiscerning as a culture or as people, but we live in a moment in history that requires more discernment; because we have more access to new ideas and to different things.\u201d It can feel like you are caught in the middle of this vortex, and that can be very overwhelming\/very disorienting. The very first thing that you begin to feel is\u2014you say things like, \u201cI don\u2019t know what to think.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cI don\u2019t know who to listen to,\u201d \u201cI don\u2019t know to how to decipher truth.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I think, as a parent, that can feel overwhelming as we have teenagers, that are logging in, that are listening to so many different voices. You have teenagers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah: <\/strong>I do; I have a 15-year-old daughter and a 13-year-old son. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I\u2019m guessing you have been helping them learn how to be discerning.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> I hope so! It hasn\u2019t been as intentional in the past as maybe I needed to be. I think I did as a lot of parents do: when your children are young, you have a lot of control over their environment; and you can filter through what they are reading, what they are watching, what they are exposed to. But as they grow older\u2014and they are going off to school or they are going to the library by themselves\u2014I found that my daughter could out-read me. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen she was young, I could keep up with what she was being exposed to and read with her. There came a point, where I could simply could not. I would walk into a room, and see books, and think: \u201cI have <em>no<\/em> idea who these authors are. I have <em>no<\/em> idea what the content of this book is.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, as a family, we have boundaries on our internet usage\u2014on what sites they can go to\u2014there is still no way I can control my children as they begin to navigate the world; I can\u2019t keep up with them. I learned that what they <em>needed<\/em> was principles; what they needed was to develop their <em>own<\/em> ability to sort through. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, even today, when I go in and my daughter is reading a new book, instead of me feeling like I have to read it with her, I ask her: \u201cIs that is a good book? Are there things that you think are wrong in it? Are their things that are objectionable? Let\u2019s talk about it.\u201d I am watching her begin to apply principles that I have been teaching her. But it all does come back to equipping <em>her<\/em> to be able to discern and navigate it well, because I am <em>not<\/em> always going to be able to keep up or be with her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So let\u2019s talk about that. What is the foundation?\u2014and again, you\u2019re talking about doing this with your kids\u2014but it\u2019s also for us, as adults. So what\u2019s the foundation? Where do we start to get\u2014and I\u2019m guessing it has something to do with your title, <em>All That Is Good<\/em>\u2014but how do we decide\/how do we discern: \u201cGood,\u201d \u201cEvil,\u201d \u201cRight,\u201d \u201cWrong\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Right\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Start there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> And for a Christian, obviously, our understanding of good and evil is shaped by the Scripture. You know, that\u2019s going to be our foundation. I think anyone who claims to be a Christian would say that. You know, we know the verses\u2014Romans 12:1,2\u2014\u201cthat our minds would be transformed so that we can discern\u201d\u2014you know\u2014\u201cwhat is the good, and perfect, and pleasing will of God.\u201d We understand that there is something about the way our thinking needs to be shaped. It needs to be shaped <em>by<\/em> the Scripture\u2014and so we are coming to the Scripture; we are seeking the ability to weigh good and evil\u2014we are seeking discernment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think one of the things we don\u2019t always understand and it gets confusing is, when we come to the Scripture, the kinds of things we want answers to aren\u2019t there. This is what I mean: \u201cShould I send my child to this school?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s not in the Bible. And so then, I think, at that point, we have this disconnect to not understanding <em>how<\/em> to have the Bible as our foundation\u2014<em>how<\/em> to have the principles of Scripture lead us and guide us in our decision making. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that\u2019s fascinating about how the Bible itself talks about discernment is that the goal is not so much the decision so much as the <em>person<\/em> being made wise\u2014that the person would be changed and the person would grow into a person, who can look at the world\u2014and because <em>they<\/em> have been changed and matured\u2014they can be able to see what is good: what lines up with the character of God and what doesn\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat\u2019s fascinating to me, as I really dug into the Scripture, a lot of the ways that we <em>think<\/em> about discernment\u2014Bob, you mentioned kind of pointing out what is wrong with something; or sometimes, we think of discernment as isolating ourselves from the world\u2014that is <em>not at all<\/em> how the Scripture talks about it. And when you actually get to passages in the Scripture that use the language of discernment\u2014I\u2019m thinking of a passage in Hebrews 5\u2014it talks about: \u201cChristians who are mature will have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.\u201d And so even\u2014I think we have to back up to the point to understand that discernment is <em>not<\/em> just pointing out what\u2019s wrong with something; it\u2019s the wisdom and the Christian maturity to know what\u2019s <em>good<\/em> about something. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, when we come to the question of cultivating discernment, with the Scripture as our foundation, what we are trying to do is learn what goodness looks like\/what the character of God, displayed in the world, looks like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I preached a message, a number of months ago, on I John 4, which says, \u201cTest the spirits.\u201d And so discernment is a part of what you do. On Twitter I said, \u201cI\u2019m going to preach this,\u201d and I was crowd sourcing, trying to get a little help for my message. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHannah chimed in; or somebody said, \u201cAsk Hannah what you need to say.\u201d You said, \u201cHere\u2019s where the focus needs to be\u2014it\u2019s less on being a heresy hunter and more on being a truth aficionado\u2014it\u2019s more on all that\u2019s good.\u201d That\u2019s why we get to \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPhilippians 4:8,9\u2014it\u2019s like the old illustration of: \u201cYou don\u2019t recognize a counterfeit by looking at counterfeit bills; you recognize it by being an expert in what authenticity looks like\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Exactly, and what\u2019s fascinating about this is <em>that<\/em> is exactly how we use discernment in <em>every other<\/em> context. If I said you had a discerning eye, I\u2019m not saying you know how to point out bad art; I\u2019m saying you know what good art looks like. If I say you have discerning taste, it\u2019s complementing you on your ability to recognize the inherent goodness of something. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat\u2019s fascinating to me is\u2014we <em>know<\/em> this language\/we <em>know<\/em> these categories\u2014but somehow, when we come to our spiritual lives or to making moral and ethical decisions, we do kind of opt for a defensive posture rather than saying: \u201cNo, I am going to be a discerning person, who moves into the world,\u201d and \u201cYes, I will reject evil; I will reject things that are not good, because I am seeking goodness. I\u2019m seeking the goodness that God has given us in the world and through His Son.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Have you thought about why it is we go the other direction? Why are we so preoccupied on pointing out what\u2019s wrong rather than on building up what is right? Why is that a spiritual characteristic for us?\u2014do you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> I\u2019ve thought about it some; I think it might be easier, quite frankly. I think the <em>work<\/em> that is necessary to develop discernment requires that we, ourselves, be challenged. And when we opt for a negative disposition in discernment, we can point the finger at everyone else; and we can draw our boundaries; and as long as we stay inside of those, we know we are good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA positive proactive approach to discernment [is] where we are actively seeking whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just. What\u2019s fascinating about this is, as we are seeking truth, it\u2019s going to check <em>us<\/em> where we are not true; so there is going to be a process of sanctification in pursing <em>truth<\/em> that doesn\u2019t necessarily have to happen if we are just staying away from lies.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Hannah, what would be an illustration of let\u2019s say discernment or negative discernment gone bad? And then the same situation, and you would take that in a positive direction. Can you think of something?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to drive into the deep end with a very loaded\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014oh, social question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah: <\/strong>\u2014because it is one that I have had to address with my daughter. My kids have been in public school for almost all their years in school. They have a lot of exposure to a lot of the ideas of the culture. I remember, just a year or two ago, my daughter coming home. Because one of her classmates was transgender, I\u2019m having a conversation with my 14-year-old in the kitchen, doing dishes, about a classmate that she grew up with, who was a girl, and now was asking to be called by a boy\u2019s name. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn that moment, I could have said to my daughter: \u201cThis is wrong. Here\u2019s why\u2026This is the Bible; this is what we believe\u2014end of conversation.\u201d\u00a0 But I realized that what my daughter <em>needed<\/em> was an appreciation for the <em>goodness<\/em> of our physical bodies. She needed to understand\u2014not: \u201cHere are just the boundaries; stay within them,\u201d\u2014because she might be able to make that decision for this <em>particular<\/em> moment. What she needed was an understanding that that question goes back to: \u201cAm I pursuing an understanding of the validity and the goodness of the body that God has given me?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, if I give her <em>that<\/em> more fully or perspective, that is going to serve her\u2014not only in this conversation\u2014but it\u2019s going to help her when she is coming up against her own insecurity about the way her body looks. By taking a proactive <em>positive<\/em> approach that says, \u201cNo, let\u2019s talk about the <em>goodness<\/em> of our bodies,\u201d and \u201cHow does that relate to this cultural question?\u201d instead of just saying, \u201cNo,\u201d \u201cNo,\u201d \u201cNo,\u201d I\u2019m saying, \u201cActually, God has a way of life that is, \u2018Yes,\u2019 \u2018Yes,\u2019 \u2018Yes,\u2019 to the life and goodness that He has built into the world,\u201d and \u201cWe are to actively pursue <em>that<\/em>.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You do still, as a mom, have to say: \u201cThis is wrong,\u201d \u201cThis is bad,\u201d \u201cThis is evil,\u201d about things. You\u2019re just saying, \u201cIf that\u2019s <em>all<\/em> we say, we are not serving ourselves, the culture, or the kids well\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> And I want her to understand that wrong is a deviation from <em>good<\/em>. So if I try to establish categories of <em>wrong<\/em> without my children understanding: \u201cThis is what <em>goodness<\/em> looks like,\u201d I am not going to equip them beyond that specific issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah: <\/strong>Like you said earlier, Bob, that you learn when something is off, based on knowing what the true authentic thing looks like. So yes, we absolutely say, \u201cThat\u2019s counterfeit\u201d; but we only <em>know<\/em> it\u2019s counterfeit because we know what <em>goodness<\/em> looks like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And yet, you also brought this perspective of love. I mean, you didn\u2019t even use the word; but as you talked about how you were talking that through with your daughter, it\u2019s like, \u201cMan, there was a love for the image of God.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember reading in your book\u2014from Philippians 1:9\u2014I don\u2019t know if you know that reference\u2014but man, when you pulled that thing out, I thought: \u201cI want to read it [Philippians 1:9]. I want to hear your comments on it.\u201d But it\u2014Paul is writing to the Philippians; and he says, \u201cAnd this is my prayer that your love may abound more and more in knowledge, in depth and insight, so that you may be able to discern what is best, and may you be pure and blameless for the day of Christ.\u201d So there is this discernment enveloped in love, and that is what we <em>don\u2019t<\/em> see. We see discernment attacking\u2014I mean, there are times I can\u2019t open Twitter; you know? I\u2019m talking about my brothers and sisters in Christ just <em>attacking<\/em>\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014trying to use discernment to say, \u201cI\u2019m right; you\u2019re wrong\u2014here\u2019s why\u2026\u201d There\u2019s <em>no love<\/em>; it\u2019s like I have turned it off at times\u2014like, \u201cI can\u2019t read this, because this is lacking what Paul is talking about.\u201d There is discernment needed; but in this\u2014this aroma of love\u2014so talk about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Hannah:<\/strong> Right; I think it goes back to remembering what the <em>goal<\/em> of discernment is. The <em>goal<\/em> of exercising discernment is <em>not<\/em> for one-upmanship; it\u2019s <em>not<\/em> to win an argument; it\u2019s <em>not<\/em> to be proven right, which can be a form of self-righteousness and works religion if we have all: \u201cWe are the ones who are right.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe <em>goal<\/em> of discernment is goodness and, ultimately, redemption. The goal of discernment is <em>healing<\/em>. Particularly, for those who are gifted with discernment, that is a gift given by the Spirit for the <em>healing<\/em> of the world, for the <em>healing<\/em> of the church, for the <em>healing<\/em> of families, for the <em>healing<\/em> of individuals. It\u2019s almost as if we are entrusted with remembering what goodness and love look like; and then, when we recognize things that don\u2019t measure up to that, that\u2019s when we raise the alarm\u2014not for the sake of being \u201cright\u201d\u2014but for the sake of drawing people back to the lives that God has given us and the abundant life in Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And that\u2019s why we train ourselves to think about what is true, what is honorable, what\u2019s just, what\u2019s pure, lovely, commendable\u2014those things in Philippians 4:8,9 that are the heart of your book. I\u2019m just thinking how good it would be for all of us to\u2014yes, we want to be alert to error\u2014but what if we were passionate for truth? Yes, we want to\u2014to say, \u201cThese things are wrong\u201d; but what if we were passionate for what\u2019s <em>right<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and passionate with an aroma of love. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it\u2019s so interesting\u2014its, often, you think that discernment leads to division; and it shouldn\u2019t. If it\u2019s done in love, the way God designed it, it would lead to unity. The church would be the most beautiful community on the planet because they are discerning all that\u2019s good\u2014but there\u2019s a warming, loving spirit to it that would bring people together\u2014not divide people; right? <em>That\u2019s<\/em> the picture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I hope listeners have caught a little excitement about this subject of discernment and will get a copy of Hannah\u2019s book. The book is called <em>All That\u2019s Good:<\/em> <em>Recovering the Lost Art of Discernment<\/em>. You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, for information on the book or to order it from us online. You can also <em>call<\/em> if you\u2019d like to order: the number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-358-6329 to order Hannah\u2019s book. The number again is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re trying to help couples this month exercise a little discernment when it comes to the state of their marriage. Our team has put together an online assessment\u2014it\u2019s the \u201cMarriage Health Assessment.\u201d You can go online and answer a few dozen questions; it will measure how your marriage is doing in five critical areas of marital health: a help, you know, where you are doing well and where you might need some assistance. And then we\u2019ve got articles and resources that we can recommend to you to help you grow and strengthen areas in your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese are the areas that we have learned, over time, make the difference between marriages that go the distance and marriages that struggle over time. The assessment is free. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link for the \u201cLove That Lasts\u201d information. Take the assessment online, and you will get your results immediately. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com and find out how your marriage is doing and what you can do to build an even stronger marriage relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then we hope you will be back with us again here tomorrow. We are going to continue to talk about how we cultivate discernment in our own lives and in the lives our children. Hannah Anderson will with us again. Hope you can be here as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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