{"id":305697,"date":"2020-01-21T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-01-21T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/marriage-and-gods-glory\/"},"modified":"2020-01-21T06:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-01-21T11:00:04","slug":"marriage-and-gods-glory","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/marriage-and-gods-glory\/","title":{"rendered":"Marriage and God&#8217;s Glory"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Authors John Trent and Curt Hamner talk about the purpose of marriage-God&#8217;s glory. Glorifying God in marriage echoes who He is and how He loves us.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-01-21.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:02","filesize":"26.58M","filesize_raw":"27876187","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2809,2805,2810],"tags":[6817],"podcast_series":[8332],"cwp_profile":[9590,3435],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305697","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-commitment","category-gods-plan-for-marriage","category-growing-spiritually","tag-purpose-of-marriage","podcast_series-marriage","cwp_profile-curt-hamner","cwp_profile-john-trent","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305697\/marriage-and-gods-glory","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305697\/marriage-and-gods-glory","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"JOq2POGfhP\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/marriage-and-gods-glory\/\">Marriage and God&#8217;s Glory<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/marriage-and-gods-glory\/embed\/#?secret=JOq2POGfhP\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Marriage and God&#8217;s Glory&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"JOq2POGfhP\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-01-21.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-01-21.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Most of us probably don\u2019t think about our marriage in this way, but Curt Hamner says we should recognize that our marriages are masterpieces.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> It\u2019s as though God gave us, on our wedding day, the Mona Lisa. If you have the Mona Lisa, what are you going to do with it? <a id=\"_Hlk28617786\">Well, you\u2019re not going to store it in a closet. You\u2019re going to display it; you\u2019re going to protect it; you\u2019re going to insure it. You\u2019re going to make sure that the first thing people see, when they come in the door, is the <em>masterpiece<\/em> that you have. God has given us a masterpiece, <em>revealing<\/em> <em>Him<\/em> as a God of love.<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, January 21<sup>st<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. When people look at your marriage, what do they see? Do they see a masterpiece? Do they see God\u2019s design for marriage on display through you? We\u2019ll talk more about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Tuesday edition. Thinking about having a marriage that\u2019s a masterpiece makes me think about the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway; because we\u2019ve had so many couples, who have come to us and said: \u201cThis weekend has changed our marriage. How come nobody ever told us this? How come nobody ever explained to us that the Bible has a lot to say about how to make a marriage all that God intends for it to be?\u201d That\u2019s what we do at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m mentioning that, right up front here, because this week we\u2019re giving <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners an opportunity to register for an upcoming getaway and save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. We start our spring season of getaways about three weeks from now; they\u2019ll continue throughout the spring into the month of June. We\u2019ve got about five dozen of these events happening in cities all across the country. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you register this week, you save 50 percent off the regular registration fee; so go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Find a getaway that\u2019s coming to a city near where you live, or a city you\u2019d like to visit; block out that weekend on your calendar; and get registered this week to save 50 percent on the registration fee. Find out more at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call if you have any questions, or if you would like to register by phone, at 1-800-FL-TODAY. We\u2019re hoping a lot of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners will make this the year\/this the spring that <em>you<\/em> do something to help make your marriage a masterpiece and attend one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was back in July of 1992, Mary Ann and I made our first trip to Little Rock together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201892?\u2014that\u2019s it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201892. We came here to talk with Dennis Rainey about the possibility of starting a radio program.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How did that go, Bob? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It actually worked out okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I remember sitting at lunch with Dennis. He looked at me and he said, \u201cI just want to know; does marriage and family\u2014\u201d\u2014here\u2019s what he said\u2014\u201c\u2014does it make you weep and pound the table?\u201d I looked back at him; and I wasn\u2019t trying to get a job, because I had a job and I was happy with my job; I was just saying, \u201cWhat\u2019s the Lord doing here?\u201d I said, \u201cYou know what?\u201d I said, \u201cTheology makes me weep and pound the table.\u201d I said: \u201cTo the extent that marriage and family is a part of God\u2019s design, yes; but honestly, it\u2019s bigger than marriage and family for me. It\u2019s: \u2018I love all aspects of theology.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s what I didn\u2019t know when I gave him that answer. I didn\u2019t know the extent to which marriage and family is wrapped up in <em>everything<\/em> that is a part of God\u2019s plan for His people. I mean, I would have been like most people and said: \u201cThere\u2019s some key chapters in the Bible about marriage. There\u2019s that Ephesians 5 chapter, and 1 Peter 3 talks about it. Jesus mentions it in Matthew 19; and of course, you\u2019ve got the \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGenesis stuff; but you get past those chapters, and there\u2019s not much about marriage and family.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod\u2019s design for His creation is built around two becoming one, starting families. I learned all of this as I came here and started interacting with Dennis, and then speaking about it at <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaways, and then, interviewing people on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. A few years later, I pushed back and went, \u201cThis is much <em>bigger<\/em> than I <em>ever<\/em> realized.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about today. We\u2019ve got a couple of friends joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Curt Hamner and John Trent are back with us. Curt, John, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> Hey thanks. So great to be back again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> Hey, thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> These guys understand how big this deal is; because they\u2019ve been working for years on a project that is now a book called <em>Marriage: Its Foundation, Theology, and Mission in a Changing World<\/em>. Curt and his wife Rhonda give leadership to a ministry called Between Two Trees in Southern California and have been working with couples for decades. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJohn and his wife live in Arizona; but John\u2019s been traveling back and forth to Chicago for the last five years, helping establish a program on marriage and family at Moody Bible Institute. We were talking earlier\u2014here\u2019s Moody Bible Institute\u2014it\u2019s been around for a hundred-plus years; and all of a sudden, they said, \u201cWe should be talking more about marriage and family\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes; well, you\u2019ve had Gary Chapman on here; and Gary just started the Chapman Center and the Chapman chair. I was the first Chapman chair. At the same time, I run a ministry called Strong Families with our oldest daughter, Kari. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut boy, you\u2019re exactly right; you sit there and you think: \u201cYes, marriage and family\u2014that\u2019s kind of peripheral. Here\u2019s the big stuff: \u2018Theology.\u2019\u201d And all of a sudden, you realize, \u201cOh my goodness; there\u2019s <em>so<\/em> much,\u201d\u2014that if you\u2019re going to study theology, guess what? It has to do with origins, and creation, and purpose, and meaning, and mission. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverybody today wants to go change the world; you know\u2014and <em>should<\/em>. Well, part of that is understanding: \u201cIf you\u2019re married, you are part of God\u2019s plan to live out the gospel and be able to go and do just that.\u201d It is exciting to tie theology with marriage and really see how the Lord takes that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here\u2019s a question for you. I\u2019ll pretend I\u2019m Dennis Rainey; alright? If I would ask you what Dennis asked Bob: \u201cCurt and John, what makes you pound the table? What makes you weep?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s looking at the next generation; and that answer is about both theology and marriage\u2014that the church of the next generation would have a firm foundation\/theological foundation that helps them understand who God is, what God has done for them, God\u2019s love for them, and God\u2019s redemptive work in their life. And would be able to see, with that, how that is represented and revealed in the marriage relationship and in the community of the church\u2014which is really the <em>fulfillment<\/em> of the community\/the people of God that God originally designed in the Garden of Eden with two. God must now expand that to generations and from the four corners of the world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, you talk in your book\u2014and even what you\u2019re describing\u2014is somebody on mission\/that\u2019s passionate. You\u2019re both so passionate; you <em>burn<\/em> for this. But I\u2019m thinking of my son and daughter-in-law, with their four-, two-, one-year-old. They\u2019re just trying to survive every day, but can they still have mission in the back of their mind? What does that look like on a practical level? What is mission\u2014the mission of marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> For me, it\u2019s really fun to come back to that; because again, thinking of that next generation\u2014and what that looks like and \u201cHow do you live on mission?\u201d\u2014I do think we have to get back to that idea of: \u201cWhat was marriage created for?\u201d Bob mentioned it earlier; it\u2019s for God\u2019s glory. We can talk a lot in the culture today about God\u2019s glory, and it just seems like it\u2019s something ethereal. How do you get your arms around it? How do you really say, \u201cI glorified God today\u201d? Well, what does that mean: \u201cI glorified God\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the truth is\u2014glorifying God is just showing Him for who He really is. And part of that, I think the culture will resonate with, whether Christian or non-Christian; and that is the desire for love: \u201cGod is love.\u201d And everybody says, \u201cWell, of course; everybody knows that God is love.\u201d You can quote Scripture verses that gets to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the idea that God is love comes back to the idea that God lives in an interpersonal relationship for all of eternity. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is a community. We, as evangelicals, run away from that; because we\u2019re so mindful of rational thought. If we can\u2019t explain it, then we\u2019re not going to deal with it; so we have a weak theology of the Trinitarian idea.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, I was talking to some friends, who are going through your book; and I said, \u201cWhat do you want me to ask these guys?\u201d They said, \u201cHave them explain the Trinity to us.\u201d I said, \u201cOkay, if they can do that, we\u2019ll solve 2000 years of church history;\u201d right? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> Go ahead with that, John.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Think about that. I do want you to talk about it; because you pick up this book, and it\u2019s right in the beginning\u2014you guys go to the Trinity. I\u2019ve <em>never<\/em>\u2014Ann and I wrote a marriage book\u2014we didn\u2019t even <em>think<\/em> of bringing the Trinity in, especially early. It\u2019s a foundational principle we\u2019ve got to understand; help us understand it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> It\u2019s central. Dave, you talked about it earlier; and that is the idea\u2014the \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGenesis 2:24: \u201cFor this cause a man shall leave\u2026\u201d Well, we never stop. \u201cFor this cause\u201d is a causal phrase; so what is following that? <em>Marriage<\/em> is caused by something that goes before it, and what goes before it? Well, it\u2019s the relationship of Adam and Eve; but even before that, it goes back to God\u2019s statement, where He says, \u201cLet <em>Us<\/em> make man in <em>Our<\/em> image.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs He does that, in the process, He makes the male; He makes Adam. And what does He say?\u2014\u201cIt\u2019s not good!\u201d It\u2019s not good because Adam, alone in his aloneness, <em>cannot<\/em> reveal a God relationship, because there is no one for him to relate to. There\u2019s got to be someone else; because the Trinity, for all eternity, has had this <em>deep<\/em> love relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo now, God brings this woman to him; and they enter into relationship. Then God says, not only is it good, but it\u2019s now \u201cvery good.\u201d So the <em>revealing<\/em> of who God is, not only as a God of love\u2014but a God of relationship, a God of community, a God of unity\u2014<em>that<\/em> becomes incredibly powerful. <em>That<\/em>, I think, is compelling for us to grab a hold of that and say\u2014like you were saying earlier, as well, Dave: \u201cHow do I reflect that in my relationship with Ann?\u201d \/ \u201cHow do I reflect that in my relationship with Rhonda?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, it\u2019s as though God gave us, on our wedding day, a masterpiece\u2014say the Mona Lisa. And if you have the Mona Lisa, what are you going to do with it? Well, you\u2019re not going to store it in a closet. You\u2019re going to display it; you\u2019re going to protect it; you\u2019re going to insure it. You\u2019re going to make sure the first thing people see, when they come in the door, is the <em>masterpiece<\/em> that you have. God has given us a masterpiece, revealing <em>Him<\/em> as a God of love; and now, we have the privilege. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think we need to\u2014as we talk about the glory of marriage, and talk about God\u2019s purpose and design, and how He puts Himself on display in marriage\u2014we just got to acknowledge the fact we have folks, listening, who aren\u2019t married: some who will never be married; some who would like to be married and aren\u2019t; some who would say, \u201cI\u2019m called to singleness.\u201d When we talk about God\u2019s design for marriage, we\u2019re not saying the only way we bring God glory in our lives is through marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Singles still play a significant role in the advancement of the kingdom and can experience wholeness and fullness of life, even if they\u2019re never married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and are still on mission.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> One of the important truths about a theology of marriage is that marriage is temporal; marriage will end with time. But the idea of the revelation and revealing God as a triune God\u2014the <em>Imago Dei<\/em>\/the image of God\u2014doesn\u2019t end because it continues with His body, the church. Marriage is the image of what the church needs to become. When we talk about the idea of love in marriage as being passion, commitment, and intimacy, those are the three components of love in the church as well. It all comes down to that idea of nakedness and vulnerability. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a culture\u2014particularly in the younger generation\u2014they\u2019re looking for this idea that says: \u201cHey, listen; we\u2019re broken people; we\u2019re vulnerable. Don\u2019t expect too much from us.\u201d And yet, in the midst of that, we\u2019ve got to reveal the idea that it\u2019s our brokenness that draws us to Christ. And it\u2019s our brokenness that we bring healing to each other by the sense of commitment and fidelity that we have, as the body of Christ, and thus comes the unity of the body of Christ. The single person has just as an important place in revealing that beauty and glory of God\u2019s image as the married couple does.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think a lot of people will hear us having a conversation like this; and they\u2019ll go: \u201cThis feels like this is for that 10 percent of the people in the church, who are like Bob\u2014who like theology and that makes them weep and pound the table\u2014but the 90 percent, who are just trying to figure out how to go day to day and pay the bills, and raise the kids, and have a loving marriage, they\u2019re like, \u201cYes, I don\u2019t know that this is going to help me do those things.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> Well, let me just jump in and just say this\u2014half this book are practitioners. I know we are spending a lot of time talking about the importance of theology. But what you have is\u2014you\u2019ve got: \u201cHere\u2019s a great theological concept. Wow, I never thought about unity, or union, or distinction, or Trinitarian things.\u201d Well, then, right after it, comes a practitioner, saying, \u201cHere\u2019s how you apply it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not just\u2014we hear you 100 percent\u2014I think, this day and age, you don\u2019t want knowledge for knowledge sake; but \u201cHow do we apply it?\u2019 That was what was so fun about this book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What\u2019s really interesting is\u2014you already said it\u2014every person has a theology. I would have answered Dennis\u2019s question and said, \u201cWhat I\u2019d pound the table over\u2014it would be marriage and family, because I came from a broken one,\u201d and \u201cThere\u2019s this pain\/passion for my whole life: \u2018I\u2019ve got to do this right.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI never knew, until I got married, that that passion had to be founded in a theology. I had one, but it wasn\u2019t biblical. So everybody <em>has<\/em> one. You\u2019re giving people God\u2019s theology for their marriage. It\u2019s always practical <em>and<\/em> theological; it\u2019s never either\/or. It\u2019s <em>always<\/em> the genius of the end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re talking about replacing <em>your<\/em> view on marriage and family with <em>God\u2019s view<\/em> on marriage and family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014a biblical view.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you have God\u2019s view on marriage and family, it\u2019s going to change your decision-making process. But most people\u2014even I would say most Christians have their view on marriage and family\u2014it\u2019s the one that\u2019s been shaped by the culture, or by their family of origin, or by what they saw on sitcoms on television. It\u2019s not been shaped biblically. So when they hit a roadblock, what they\u2019re drawing on to try to deal with the issue is: \u201cWell, what\u2019s my view on marriage and family?\u201d Maybe they have a few Bible verses, dropped in on top of it; but they\u2019re not thinking, biblically. They\u2019re not thinking from God\u2019s perspective about: \u201cHow do I work through this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I would say it\u2019s the Disney theology\u2014is what I was raised on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cSome day my prince will come\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; \u201c\u2026and he will fulfill\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He\u2019s sitting right here, in case you\u2019re wondering. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand he will fulfill all my dreams.\u201d I think that\u2019s what a lot of people come into marriage, thinking: \u201cMy marriage is going to make me happy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor Dave and [me]\u2014when we were to the point of getting divorced\/of wondering if we would make it, I wasn\u2019t thinking of theology. All I was thinking was, \u201cHe is not meeting my needs, and he\u2019s not doing his part.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And yet, as I look back, the thing that saved our marriage was theology.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> Yes; I think, as you look at that, too, Ann\/as you described that, I have been at that place; and Rhonda has been at that place; and everybody has been\u2014either in the body of Christ or in marriage\u2014has been at that place, where you feel naked and ashamed, which is the Genesis 3 portion. It is the idea that \u201cI feel so exposed.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs we think through\u2014and Rhonda and I named our ministry Between Two Trees\u2014theology isn\u2019t just taking one area. You know, there\u2019s a lot of different terminologies for different forms of theology; it\u2019s not just one thing. It\u2019s the idea of looking at the big picture. So Between Two Trees is the beginning of time and the end of time: the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden\/you find the Tree of Life again, in Revelation 22, at the end of time. The truth is\u2014we live <em>between<\/em> the two trees. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not as it was in creation, or how creation will be redeemed and corrected at the end of time; but we live as Romans 8 says: \u201cLike the rest of creation, we\u2019re groaning\u201d; we\u2019re wanting it to be like it was or what it will be. So every time that Rhonda and I get into a skirmish\/every time we get into a fight\u2014you know what I\u2019m saying\u2014[Laughter]\u2014every time we get into a fight, we\u2019re sitting there, before each other, or hiding from each other, feeling naked and ashamed. It is that question of: \u201cWhy? This is not the way it\u2019s supposed to be; it\u2019s groaning.\u201d We\u2019re just groaning inside of ourselves; because it\u2019s <em>not<\/em> the way that we want it nor the way that it should be, and so we come back to that idea: \u201cOkay, what do I really believe about what marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And if I don\u2019t have a solid theology, what\u2019s your <em>only<\/em> answer?\u2014\u201cI\u2019m <em>done<\/em>. This isn\u2019t working for me; it\u2019s not working for you. Why would we keep trying to do this?\u201d There\u2019s not a foundation that says: \u201cNo, no, no. There\u2019s something bigger going on here, and we\u2019ve got to fight for it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> And in our culture, the individual is all that matters\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> \u2014and that individual is me; so we begin to look in our marriage as opponents\/as enemies instead of allies, and looking for that idea of union and oneness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> One thing\u2014when you look at the way God loves us is that commitment factor. Let me get real practical. Cindy and I are so different. I mean, one of the only things we have in common is we both married on the same day, basically. [Laughter] I\u2019m right-handed; she\u2019s left-handed. I\u2019m a night person; she\u2019s a morning person. She\u2019s a saver; I\u2019m more of a spender. She wants the toilet paper to go off the top of the roll; I just want it there; you know. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo we get married\u2014and again, I\u2019m telling you what theology does\u2014is say: \u201cHey, Hebrews 13:5: \u2018For He Himself has said I will never leave you nor forsake you.\u2019\u201d Okay, that\u2019s <em>commitment<\/em>; right? Here\u2019s Cindy and [me]\u2014and it starts off with an issue with us. Now, you guys would never struggle this way; but let\u2019s say, \u201cSave,\u201d\/\u201dSpend\u201d; right? \u201cSave,\u201d\/\u201dSpend\u201d; \u201cSave,\u201d\/\u201dSpend,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s Cindy and [me]. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember one time we got a check for an unexpected $5,000. Her aunt had passed away and was loaded, and we get a $5000 check. What am I thinking: \u201dBig screen. Thank you, Lord.\u201d It was just before football season. Well, Cindy wants to do what?\u2014save it\/kids\u2019 college. We don\u2019t even <em>have<\/em> kids at that point. [Laughter] I\u2019m going, \u201cAre you kidding?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, if you don\u2019t solve issues, guess what you start doing?\u2014now, not you guys; but Cindy and [me]. Now, you move up to Level Two, and you start attacking the <em>person<\/em>: \u201cWhy are you being such a <em>skinflint<\/em>?\u201d \u201cWell why don\u2019t you be a better <em>steward<\/em>?\u201d \u201cWhy don\u2019t you be more <em>submissive<\/em>?\u201d \u201cWell, that\u2019s out of context.\u201d \u201cWell your mom\u2019s out of context.\u201d [Laughter] So now, we\u2019re attacking each other and her mother; and if you\u2019re not careful, what are you going to do? You have all these issues, and you start attacking the person. If you\u2019re not careful, you\u2019re going to move up to Level Three, which is where you start questioning the relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cI married the wrong person.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes; and \u201cIf these are the kinds of issues we have, and if you\u2019re that kind of person, then what in the world am I doing in that relationship?\u201d Then every Level One issue goes up to Level Three. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s where I\u2019m saying: \u201cMan, if you <em>don\u2019t<\/em> have a theology that encompasses brokenness and hurt\u201d\u2014and that\u2019s where Curt and Rhonda, Cindy and I, and you two, and Bob\u2014you and your wife\u2014all of a sudden, you realize: \u201cWe\u2019re up to Level Three. Well now, Lord, we need to back off and start talking about that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBoy, just <em>that<\/em> has been able to help us so much to realize God\u2019s view of commitment; and when you enter that into a marriage, it can help so much when things do get tough.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> We had one of those, John, where we were actually working with a couple, who were living together, preparing to get married. Their faith was, at the best, weak\u2014if they had any faith at all. We do these [sessions] in our home. We have a couple come in; they\u2019ll stay overnight; Rhonda will prepare meals for them. Before she prepares meals, she\u2019ll contact them and say: \u201cWhat are your likes and dislikes? What dietary restrictions do you have?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ll get some that will be gluten free; some that will be all kinds of different things; but they came back and said, \u201cWell, we have a sustainable diet.\u201d Rhonda said, \u201cWell, I understand all of the others; but tell me what sustainable is.\u201d They said: \u201cIf you catch the fish, we\u2019ll eat it. If you know the chicken, we\u2019ll eat the eggs,\u201d\u2014on and on like that. Rhonda did everything that she could to provide that kind of a diet for them while they were in our home. They came and had a great time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then they got back [to their home]\u2014and just what you were describing, John\u2014they got into a conflict. It went from Level One to Level Two to Level Three. They called us at 9:00 at night and said: \u201cCan you come to our house? We are in crisis.\u201d We got to the house, and we listened to them\/listened to both sides. Finally, Rhonda looked at them and she said, \u201cYou know, the challenge for you guys is that you don\u2019t have a sustainable <em>love<\/em> for your relationship.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>They really didn\u2019t understand that idea of God\u2019s love for them; that they, then, could give that same kind of love to each other.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you don\u2019t have God\u2019s view of marriage, what your left with is your view of marriage. And your view of marriage will not serve you well and take you the distance. That\u2019s why you guys have written a book to say: \u201cLet\u2019s replace our individual\/our human view of marriage with a divine view of marriage. Let\u2019s take how we\u2019ve been thinking wrongly about this, and let\u2019s talk about how to think rightly about this; because from that foundation of how you think, that\u2019s going to generate how you act.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, if you want to know how people really believe, look at how they act; because behind their actions is what they really believe. Let\u2019s start addressing what you believe and that should play out in how you act. I hope couples will go through this together; I hope that small groups will go through this together. I hope that this will be the kind of book that will help retrain a generation of Christians to think God\u2019s way about marriage. The book we\u2019re talking about is called <em>Marriage: Its Foundation, Theology, and Mission in a Changing World<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got copies of the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; you can order from us online; or call to order the book, <em>Marriage<\/em>: 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Then plan to do something that helps build and strengthen your marriage, whatever stage your marriage is in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, this week, we are making available for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners a special offer\u2014you can register for one of our upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways. We\u2019re going to have about 60 of them this spring in cities all across the country. If you register this week for any of these upcoming events, you\u2019ll save 50 percent off the registration fee. You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to find out when a getaway is coming to a city near where you live; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY if you have any questions or if you\u2019d like to register by phone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis weekend will provide you with: fresh insights\/new understanding of what the Bible teaches about marriage, time for the two of you to do some projects together, and time just to be together and to focus on what is the priority human relationship out of all our relationships in the world. Our marriage is designed by God to be the priority relationship, but how much time do we really invest in strengthening our marriages? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTake a weekend this spring and do something that is going to be <em>really<\/em> good for your marriage. Go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. Save 50 percent off the regular registration fee when you sign up this week. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to register; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY, and we can get you registered over the phone. We look forward to seeing you at one of these upcoming getaways.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about the epidemic of cohabitation. You really would have to call it an epidemic\u2014that\u2019s what it is in our culture today. We\u2019ll talk about why couples are cohabiting and how we can help people, again, think biblically about marriage and about cohabitation. I hope you can tune in for that tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:29:02"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["26.58M"],"filesize_raw":["27876187"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305697.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305697.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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John Trent and Curt Hamner talk about the purpose of marriage-God's glory. Glorifying God in marriage echoes who He is and how He loves us.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-01-21.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Most of us probably don\u2019t think about our marriage in this way, but Curt Hamner says we should recognize that our marriages are masterpieces.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> It\u2019s as though God gave us, on our wedding day, the Mona Lisa. If you have the Mona Lisa, what are you going to do with it? <a id=\"_Hlk28617786\">Well, you\u2019re not going to store it in a closet. You\u2019re going to display it; you\u2019re going to protect it; you\u2019re going to insure it. You\u2019re going to make sure that the first thing people see, when they come in the door, is the <em>masterpiece<\/em> that you have. God has given us a masterpiece, <em>revealing<\/em> <em>Him<\/em> as a God of love.<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, January 21<sup>st<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. When people look at your marriage, what do they see? Do they see a masterpiece? Do they see God\u2019s design for marriage on display through you? We\u2019ll talk more about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Tuesday edition. Thinking about having a marriage that\u2019s a masterpiece makes me think about the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway; because we\u2019ve had so many couples, who have come to us and said: \u201cThis weekend has changed our marriage. How come nobody ever told us this? How come nobody ever explained to us that the Bible has a lot to say about how to make a marriage all that God intends for it to be?\u201d That\u2019s what we do at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m mentioning that, right up front here, because this week we\u2019re giving <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners an opportunity to register for an upcoming getaway and save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. We start our spring season of getaways about three weeks from now; they\u2019ll continue throughout the spring into the month of June. We\u2019ve got about five dozen of these events happening in cities all across the country. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you register this week, you save 50 percent off the regular registration fee; so go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Find a getaway that\u2019s coming to a city near where you live, or a city you\u2019d like to visit; block out that weekend on your calendar; and get registered this week to save 50 percent on the registration fee. Find out more at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call if you have any questions, or if you would like to register by phone, at 1-800-FL-TODAY. We\u2019re hoping a lot of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners will make this the year\/this the spring that <em>you<\/em> do something to help make your marriage a masterpiece and attend one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was back in July of 1992, Mary Ann and I made our first trip to Little Rock together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201892?\u2014that\u2019s it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201892. We came here to talk with Dennis Rainey about the possibility of starting a radio program.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How did that go, Bob? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It actually worked out okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I remember sitting at lunch with Dennis. He looked at me and he said, \u201cI just want to know; does marriage and family\u2014\u201d\u2014here\u2019s what he said\u2014\u201c\u2014does it make you weep and pound the table?\u201d I looked back at him; and I wasn\u2019t trying to get a job, because I had a job and I was happy with my job; I was just saying, \u201cWhat\u2019s the Lord doing here?\u201d I said, \u201cYou know what?\u201d I said, \u201cTheology makes me weep and pound the table.\u201d I said: \u201cTo the extent that marriage and family is a part of God\u2019s design, yes; but honestly, it\u2019s bigger than marriage and family for me. It\u2019s: \u2018I love all aspects of theology.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s what I didn\u2019t know when I gave him that answer. I didn\u2019t know the extent to which marriage and family is wrapped up in <em>everything<\/em> that is a part of God\u2019s plan for His people. I mean, I would have been like most people and said: \u201cThere\u2019s some key chapters in the Bible about marriage. There\u2019s that Ephesians 5 chapter, and 1 Peter 3 talks about it. Jesus mentions it in Matthew 19; and of course, you\u2019ve got the \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGenesis stuff; but you get past those chapters, and there\u2019s not much about marriage and family.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod\u2019s design for His creation is built around two becoming one, starting families. I learned all of this as I came here and started interacting with Dennis, and then speaking about it at <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaways, and then, interviewing people on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. A few years later, I pushed back and went, \u201cThis is much <em>bigger<\/em> than I <em>ever<\/em> realized.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about today. We\u2019ve got a couple of friends joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Curt Hamner and John Trent are back with us. Curt, John, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> Hey thanks. So great to be back again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> Hey, thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> These guys understand how big this deal is; because they\u2019ve been working for years on a project that is now a book called <em>Marriage: Its Foundation, Theology, and Mission in a Changing World<\/em>. Curt and his wife Rhonda give leadership to a ministry called Between Two Trees in Southern California and have been working with couples for decades. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJohn and his wife live in Arizona; but John\u2019s been traveling back and forth to Chicago for the last five years, helping establish a program on marriage and family at Moody Bible Institute. We were talking earlier\u2014here\u2019s Moody Bible Institute\u2014it\u2019s been around for a hundred-plus years; and all of a sudden, they said, \u201cWe should be talking more about marriage and family\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes; well, you\u2019ve had Gary Chapman on here; and Gary just started the Chapman Center and the Chapman chair. I was the first Chapman chair. At the same time, I run a ministry called Strong Families with our oldest daughter, Kari. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut boy, you\u2019re exactly right; you sit there and you think: \u201cYes, marriage and family\u2014that\u2019s kind of peripheral. Here\u2019s the big stuff: \u2018Theology.\u2019\u201d And all of a sudden, you realize, \u201cOh my goodness; there\u2019s <em>so<\/em> much,\u201d\u2014that if you\u2019re going to study theology, guess what? It has to do with origins, and creation, and purpose, and meaning, and mission. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverybody today wants to go change the world; you know\u2014and <em>should<\/em>. Well, part of that is understanding: \u201cIf you\u2019re married, you are part of God\u2019s plan to live out the gospel and be able to go and do just that.\u201d It is exciting to tie theology with marriage and really see how the Lord takes that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here\u2019s a question for you. I\u2019ll pretend I\u2019m Dennis Rainey; alright? If I would ask you what Dennis asked Bob: \u201cCurt and John, what makes you pound the table? What makes you weep?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s looking at the next generation; and that answer is about both theology and marriage\u2014that the church of the next generation would have a firm foundation\/theological foundation that helps them understand who God is, what God has done for them, God\u2019s love for them, and God\u2019s redemptive work in their life. And would be able to see, with that, how that is represented and revealed in the marriage relationship and in the community of the church\u2014which is really the <em>fulfillment<\/em> of the community\/the people of God that God originally designed in the Garden of Eden with two. God must now expand that to generations and from the four corners of the world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, you talk in your book\u2014and even what you\u2019re describing\u2014is somebody on mission\/that\u2019s passionate. You\u2019re both so passionate; you <em>burn<\/em> for this. But I\u2019m thinking of my son and daughter-in-law, with their four-, two-, one-year-old. They\u2019re just trying to survive every day, but can they still have mission in the back of their mind? What does that look like on a practical level? What is mission\u2014the mission of marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> For me, it\u2019s really fun to come back to that; because again, thinking of that next generation\u2014and what that looks like and \u201cHow do you live on mission?\u201d\u2014I do think we have to get back to that idea of: \u201cWhat was marriage created for?\u201d Bob mentioned it earlier; it\u2019s for God\u2019s glory. We can talk a lot in the culture today about God\u2019s glory, and it just seems like it\u2019s something ethereal. How do you get your arms around it? How do you really say, \u201cI glorified God today\u201d? Well, what does that mean: \u201cI glorified God\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the truth is\u2014glorifying God is just showing Him for who He really is. And part of that, I think the culture will resonate with, whether Christian or non-Christian; and that is the desire for love: \u201cGod is love.\u201d And everybody says, \u201cWell, of course; everybody knows that God is love.\u201d You can quote Scripture verses that gets to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the idea that God is love comes back to the idea that God lives in an interpersonal relationship for all of eternity. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is a community. We, as evangelicals, run away from that; because we\u2019re so mindful of rational thought. If we can\u2019t explain it, then we\u2019re not going to deal with it; so we have a weak theology of the Trinitarian idea.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, I was talking to some friends, who are going through your book; and I said, \u201cWhat do you want me to ask these guys?\u201d They said, \u201cHave them explain the Trinity to us.\u201d I said, \u201cOkay, if they can do that, we\u2019ll solve 2000 years of church history;\u201d right? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> Go ahead with that, John.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Think about that. I do want you to talk about it; because you pick up this book, and it\u2019s right in the beginning\u2014you guys go to the Trinity. I\u2019ve <em>never<\/em>\u2014Ann and I wrote a marriage book\u2014we didn\u2019t even <em>think<\/em> of bringing the Trinity in, especially early. It\u2019s a foundational principle we\u2019ve got to understand; help us understand it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> It\u2019s central. Dave, you talked about it earlier; and that is the idea\u2014the \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGenesis 2:24: \u201cFor this cause a man shall leave\u2026\u201d Well, we never stop. \u201cFor this cause\u201d is a causal phrase; so what is following that? <em>Marriage<\/em> is caused by something that goes before it, and what goes before it? Well, it\u2019s the relationship of Adam and Eve; but even before that, it goes back to God\u2019s statement, where He says, \u201cLet <em>Us<\/em> make man in <em>Our<\/em> image.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs He does that, in the process, He makes the male; He makes Adam. And what does He say?\u2014\u201cIt\u2019s not good!\u201d It\u2019s not good because Adam, alone in his aloneness, <em>cannot<\/em> reveal a God relationship, because there is no one for him to relate to. There\u2019s got to be someone else; because the Trinity, for all eternity, has had this <em>deep<\/em> love relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo now, God brings this woman to him; and they enter into relationship. Then God says, not only is it good, but it\u2019s now \u201cvery good.\u201d So the <em>revealing<\/em> of who God is, not only as a God of love\u2014but a God of relationship, a God of community, a God of unity\u2014<em>that<\/em> becomes incredibly powerful. <em>That<\/em>, I think, is compelling for us to grab a hold of that and say\u2014like you were saying earlier, as well, Dave: \u201cHow do I reflect that in my relationship with Ann?\u201d \/ \u201cHow do I reflect that in my relationship with Rhonda?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, it\u2019s as though God gave us, on our wedding day, a masterpiece\u2014say the Mona Lisa. And if you have the Mona Lisa, what are you going to do with it? Well, you\u2019re not going to store it in a closet. You\u2019re going to display it; you\u2019re going to protect it; you\u2019re going to insure it. You\u2019re going to make sure the first thing people see, when they come in the door, is the <em>masterpiece<\/em> that you have. God has given us a masterpiece, revealing <em>Him<\/em> as a God of love; and now, we have the privilege. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think we need to\u2014as we talk about the glory of marriage, and talk about God\u2019s purpose and design, and how He puts Himself on display in marriage\u2014we just got to acknowledge the fact we have folks, listening, who aren\u2019t married: some who will never be married; some who would like to be married and aren\u2019t; some who would say, \u201cI\u2019m called to singleness.\u201d When we talk about God\u2019s design for marriage, we\u2019re not saying the only way we bring God glory in our lives is through marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Singles still play a significant role in the advancement of the kingdom and can experience wholeness and fullness of life, even if they\u2019re never married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and are still on mission.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> One of the important truths about a theology of marriage is that marriage is temporal; marriage will end with time. But the idea of the revelation and revealing God as a triune God\u2014the <em>Imago Dei<\/em>\/the image of God\u2014doesn\u2019t end because it continues with His body, the church. Marriage is the image of what the church needs to become. When we talk about the idea of love in marriage as being passion, commitment, and intimacy, those are the three components of love in the church as well. It all comes down to that idea of nakedness and vulnerability. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a culture\u2014particularly in the younger generation\u2014they\u2019re looking for this idea that says: \u201cHey, listen; we\u2019re broken people; we\u2019re vulnerable. Don\u2019t expect too much from us.\u201d And yet, in the midst of that, we\u2019ve got to reveal the idea that it\u2019s our brokenness that draws us to Christ. And it\u2019s our brokenness that we bring healing to each other by the sense of commitment and fidelity that we have, as the body of Christ, and thus comes the unity of the body of Christ. The single person has just as an important place in revealing that beauty and glory of God\u2019s image as the married couple does.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think a lot of people will hear us having a conversation like this; and they\u2019ll go: \u201cThis feels like this is for that 10 percent of the people in the church, who are like Bob\u2014who like theology and that makes them weep and pound the table\u2014but the 90 percent, who are just trying to figure out how to go day to day and pay the bills, and raise the kids, and have a loving marriage, they\u2019re like, \u201cYes, I don\u2019t know that this is going to help me do those things.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> Well, let me just jump in and just say this\u2014half this book are practitioners. I know we are spending a lot of time talking about the importance of theology. But what you have is\u2014you\u2019ve got: \u201cHere\u2019s a great theological concept. Wow, I never thought about unity, or union, or distinction, or Trinitarian things.\u201d Well, then, right after it, comes a practitioner, saying, \u201cHere\u2019s how you apply it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not just\u2014we hear you 100 percent\u2014I think, this day and age, you don\u2019t want knowledge for knowledge sake; but \u201cHow do we apply it?\u2019 That was what was so fun about this book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What\u2019s really interesting is\u2014you already said it\u2014every person has a theology. I would have answered Dennis\u2019s question and said, \u201cWhat I\u2019d pound the table over\u2014it would be marriage and family, because I came from a broken one,\u201d and \u201cThere\u2019s this pain\/passion for my whole life: \u2018I\u2019ve got to do this right.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI never knew, until I got married, that that passion had to be founded in a theology. I had one, but it wasn\u2019t biblical. So everybody <em>has<\/em> one. You\u2019re giving people God\u2019s theology for their marriage. It\u2019s always practical <em>and<\/em> theological; it\u2019s never either\/or. It\u2019s <em>always<\/em> the genius of the end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re talking about replacing <em>your<\/em> view on marriage and family with <em>God\u2019s view<\/em> on marriage and family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014a biblical view.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you have God\u2019s view on marriage and family, it\u2019s going to change your decision-making process. But most people\u2014even I would say most Christians have their view on marriage and family\u2014it\u2019s the one that\u2019s been shaped by the culture, or by their family of origin, or by what they saw on sitcoms on television. It\u2019s not been shaped biblically. So when they hit a roadblock, what they\u2019re drawing on to try to deal with the issue is: \u201cWell, what\u2019s my view on marriage and family?\u201d Maybe they have a few Bible verses, dropped in on top of it; but they\u2019re not thinking, biblically. They\u2019re not thinking from God\u2019s perspective about: \u201cHow do I work through this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I would say it\u2019s the Disney theology\u2014is what I was raised on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cSome day my prince will come\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; \u201c\u2026and he will fulfill\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He\u2019s sitting right here, in case you\u2019re wondering. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand he will fulfill all my dreams.\u201d I think that\u2019s what a lot of people come into marriage, thinking: \u201cMy marriage is going to make me happy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor Dave and [me]\u2014when we were to the point of getting divorced\/of wondering if we would make it, I wasn\u2019t thinking of theology. All I was thinking was, \u201cHe is not meeting my needs, and he\u2019s not doing his part.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And yet, as I look back, the thing that saved our marriage was theology.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> Yes; I think, as you look at that, too, Ann\/as you described that, I have been at that place; and Rhonda has been at that place; and everybody has been\u2014either in the body of Christ or in marriage\u2014has been at that place, where you feel naked and ashamed, which is the Genesis 3 portion. It is the idea that \u201cI feel so exposed.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs we think through\u2014and Rhonda and I named our ministry Between Two Trees\u2014theology isn\u2019t just taking one area. You know, there\u2019s a lot of different terminologies for different forms of theology; it\u2019s not just one thing. It\u2019s the idea of looking at the big picture. So Between Two Trees is the beginning of time and the end of time: the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden\/you find the Tree of Life again, in Revelation 22, at the end of time. The truth is\u2014we live <em>between<\/em> the two trees. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not as it was in creation, or how creation will be redeemed and corrected at the end of time; but we live as Romans 8 says: \u201cLike the rest of creation, we\u2019re groaning\u201d; we\u2019re wanting it to be like it was or what it will be. So every time that Rhonda and I get into a skirmish\/every time we get into a fight\u2014you know what I\u2019m saying\u2014[Laughter]\u2014every time we get into a fight, we\u2019re sitting there, before each other, or hiding from each other, feeling naked and ashamed. It is that question of: \u201cWhy? This is not the way it\u2019s supposed to be; it\u2019s groaning.\u201d We\u2019re just groaning inside of ourselves; because it\u2019s <em>not<\/em> the way that we want it nor the way that it should be, and so we come back to that idea: \u201cOkay, what do I really believe about what marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And if I don\u2019t have a solid theology, what\u2019s your <em>only<\/em> answer?\u2014\u201cI\u2019m <em>done<\/em>. This isn\u2019t working for me; it\u2019s not working for you. Why would we keep trying to do this?\u201d There\u2019s not a foundation that says: \u201cNo, no, no. There\u2019s something bigger going on here, and we\u2019ve got to fight for it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> And in our culture, the individual is all that matters\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> \u2014and that individual is me; so we begin to look in our marriage as opponents\/as enemies instead of allies, and looking for that idea of union and oneness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> One thing\u2014when you look at the way God loves us is that commitment factor. Let me get real practical. Cindy and I are so different. I mean, one of the only things we have in common is we both married on the same day, basically. [Laughter] I\u2019m right-handed; she\u2019s left-handed. I\u2019m a night person; she\u2019s a morning person. She\u2019s a saver; I\u2019m more of a spender. She wants the toilet paper to go off the top of the roll; I just want it there; you know. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo we get married\u2014and again, I\u2019m telling you what theology does\u2014is say: \u201cHey, Hebrews 13:5: \u2018For He Himself has said I will never leave you nor forsake you.\u2019\u201d Okay, that\u2019s <em>commitment<\/em>; right? Here\u2019s Cindy and [me]\u2014and it starts off with an issue with us. Now, you guys would never struggle this way; but let\u2019s say, \u201cSave,\u201d\/\u201dSpend\u201d; right? \u201cSave,\u201d\/\u201dSpend\u201d; \u201cSave,\u201d\/\u201dSpend,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s Cindy and [me]. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember one time we got a check for an unexpected $5,000. Her aunt had passed away and was loaded, and we get a $5000 check. What am I thinking: \u201dBig screen. Thank you, Lord.\u201d It was just before football season. Well, Cindy wants to do what?\u2014save it\/kids\u2019 college. We don\u2019t even <em>have<\/em> kids at that point. [Laughter] I\u2019m going, \u201cAre you kidding?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, if you don\u2019t solve issues, guess what you start doing?\u2014now, not you guys; but Cindy and [me]. Now, you move up to Level Two, and you start attacking the <em>person<\/em>: \u201cWhy are you being such a <em>skinflint<\/em>?\u201d \u201cWell why don\u2019t you be a better <em>steward<\/em>?\u201d \u201cWhy don\u2019t you be more <em>submissive<\/em>?\u201d \u201cWell, that\u2019s out of context.\u201d \u201cWell your mom\u2019s out of context.\u201d [Laughter] So now, we\u2019re attacking each other and her mother; and if you\u2019re not careful, what are you going to do? You have all these issues, and you start attacking the person. If you\u2019re not careful, you\u2019re going to move up to Level Three, which is where you start questioning the relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cI married the wrong person.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes; and \u201cIf these are the kinds of issues we have, and if you\u2019re that kind of person, then what in the world am I doing in that relationship?\u201d Then every Level One issue goes up to Level Three. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s where I\u2019m saying: \u201cMan, if you <em>don\u2019t<\/em> have a theology that encompasses brokenness and hurt\u201d\u2014and that\u2019s where Curt and Rhonda, Cindy and I, and you two, and Bob\u2014you and your wife\u2014all of a sudden, you realize: \u201cWe\u2019re up to Level Three. Well now, Lord, we need to back off and start talking about that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBoy, just <em>that<\/em> has been able to help us so much to realize God\u2019s view of commitment; and when you enter that into a marriage, it can help so much when things do get tough.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> We had one of those, John, where we were actually working with a couple, who were living together, preparing to get married. Their faith was, at the best, weak\u2014if they had any faith at all. We do these [sessions] in our home. We have a couple come in; they\u2019ll stay overnight; Rhonda will prepare meals for them. Before she prepares meals, she\u2019ll contact them and say: \u201cWhat are your likes and dislikes? What dietary restrictions do you have?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ll get some that will be gluten free; some that will be all kinds of different things; but they came back and said, \u201cWell, we have a sustainable diet.\u201d Rhonda said, \u201cWell, I understand all of the others; but tell me what sustainable is.\u201d They said: \u201cIf you catch the fish, we\u2019ll eat it. If you know the chicken, we\u2019ll eat the eggs,\u201d\u2014on and on like that. Rhonda did everything that she could to provide that kind of a diet for them while they were in our home. They came and had a great time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then they got back [to their home]\u2014and just what you were describing, John\u2014they got into a conflict. It went from Level One to Level Two to Level Three. They called us at 9:00 at night and said: \u201cCan you come to our house? We are in crisis.\u201d We got to the house, and we listened to them\/listened to both sides. Finally, Rhonda looked at them and she said, \u201cYou know, the challenge for you guys is that you don\u2019t have a sustainable <em>love<\/em> for your relationship.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>They really didn\u2019t understand that idea of God\u2019s love for them; that they, then, could give that same kind of love to each other.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you don\u2019t have God\u2019s view of marriage, what your left with is your view of marriage. And your view of marriage will not serve you well and take you the distance. That\u2019s why you guys have written a book to say: \u201cLet\u2019s replace our individual\/our human view of marriage with a divine view of marriage. Let\u2019s take how we\u2019ve been thinking wrongly about this, and let\u2019s talk about how to think rightly about this; because from that foundation of how you think, that\u2019s going to generate how you act.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, if you want to know how people really believe, look at how they act; because behind their actions is what they really believe. Let\u2019s start addressing what you believe and that should play out in how you act. I hope couples will go through this together; I hope that small groups will go through this together. I hope that this will be the kind of book that will help retrain a generation of Christians to think God\u2019s way about marriage. The book we\u2019re talking about is called <em>Marriage: Its Foundation, Theology, and Mission in a Changing World<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got copies of the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; you can order from us online; or call to order the book, <em>Marriage<\/em>: 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Then plan to do something that helps build and strengthen your marriage, whatever stage your marriage is in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, this week, we are making available for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners a special offer\u2014you can register for one of our upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways. We\u2019re going to have about 60 of them this spring in cities all across the country. If you register this week for any of these upcoming events, you\u2019ll save 50 percent off the registration fee. You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to find out when a getaway is coming to a city near where you live; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY if you have any questions or if you\u2019d like to register by phone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis weekend will provide you with: fresh insights\/new understanding of what the Bible teaches about marriage, time for the two of you to do some projects together, and time just to be together and to focus on what is the priority human relationship out of all our relationships in the world. Our marriage is designed by God to be the priority relationship, but how much time do we really invest in strengthening our marriages? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTake a weekend this spring and do something that is going to be <em>really<\/em> good for your marriage. Go to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. Save 50 percent off the regular registration fee when you sign up this week. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to register; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY, and we can get you registered over the phone. We look forward to seeing you at one of these upcoming getaways.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about the epidemic of cohabitation. You really would have to call it an epidemic\u2014that\u2019s what it is in our culture today. We\u2019ll talk about why couples are cohabiting and how we can help people, again, think biblically about marriage and about cohabitation. I hope you can tune in for that tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/305697","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305697"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305697"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305697"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305697"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=305697"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=305697"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=305697"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}