{"id":305695,"date":"2020-01-20T06:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-01-20T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-theology-of-marriage\/"},"modified":"2020-01-20T06:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-01-20T11:00:05","slug":"the-theology-of-marriage","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-theology-of-marriage\/","title":{"rendered":"The Theology of Marriage"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Curt Hamner and John Trent talk about how God had a specific purpose for Adam and Eve, but since the Fall, marriages have been in trouble. Together they explain that, even during difficulty, marriage is still important.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-01-20.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:03","filesize":"26.6M","filesize_raw":"27888833","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2809,2805,2810],"tags":[6817],"podcast_series":[8332],"cwp_profile":[9590,3435],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305695","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-commitment","category-gods-plan-for-marriage","category-growing-spiritually","tag-purpose-of-marriage","podcast_series-marriage","cwp_profile-curt-hamner","cwp_profile-john-trent","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305695\/the-theology-of-marriage","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305695\/the-theology-of-marriage","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"UPCHbskOb9\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-theology-of-marriage\/\">The Theology of Marriage<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-theology-of-marriage\/embed\/#?secret=UPCHbskOb9\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Theology of Marriage&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"UPCHbskOb9\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-01-20.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-01-20.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Both our understanding of marriage and our understanding of the gospel are under attack in our culture today. Curt Hamner says the best defense is to make sure that we get marriage and the gospel right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>Spurgeon made the statement\u2014he said the gospel doesn\u2019t need to be defended. The gospel is like a bulldog. All you have to do is reach down and remove the leash, and the gospel will defend itself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe think the same thing is true about marriage. If we declare the beauty\/the glory of a marriage, as God designed it, the world will be flocking to the doors of the church, will be asking questions of Christians: \u201cHow do I get a marriage like that? What is that really about?!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, January 20<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Do you think rightly\/biblically about marriage? Is the way you think about marriage being reflected in how you are living it out? We\u2019re going to find that out today with John Trent and Curt Hamner. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I hope you guys brought your scuba gear with you today because we\u2019re\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014we\u2019re going deep! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re headed to the deep end of the pool. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBefore I introduce our guests, let me remind our regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners we are about to kick off our spring season of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup><em> Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>marriage getaways. We\u2019re going to be hosting about five dozen of these getaways in cities all across the country this spring. This is your last opportunity, this week, to sign up for an upcoming getaway and save 50 percent off the registration fee\u2014this offer is good for [this] week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you want to take advantage of the savings and have a <em>great<\/em> getaway as a couple this spring, go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; find out when a getaway is coming to a city near where you live or a city you would like to visit this spring. Mark that off on your calendar, plan the getaway, and register this week so you can save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> is a fun and relaxing time away for couples; it\u2019s refreshing. We\u2019ve heard from so many couples, over the years, how important this weekend has been for their marriage. Take advantage of this special offer; register this week\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014or if you have any questions, call us at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, let me introduce our guests, who are joining us this week. We\u2019ve got Curt Hamner and John Trent joining us again. John, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Thank you!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Curt, welcome for the first time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>Thank you so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Nice to have both you guys here. These two guys have been working\u2014I\u2019m thinking, Curt, you and I sat out in your living room, in Southern California, more than two years ago. You were laying out your vision for\u2014this is not just a book; this is a project that you guys have been working on. Tell us how all of this came to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>Yes, it is. The ministry that Rhonda and I have\u2014we spend a lot of time coaching and counseling couples and teaching. Really, the background began during our seminary years, under the leadership of Dr. Howard Hendricks at Dallas Seminary, in a class that he called Christian Home. At the beginning of class, Prof would set us up with developing a theology of marriage, out of Genesis 2:24. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor 40 years, we have practiced and followed that idea of a theology of marriage. We began to look around and realize that was really wanting\u2014not only in the lives of couples\u2014but in churches and even in the pulpit. We realized that an organization that our son-in-law is involved with\u2014ETS, the Evangelical Theological Society\u2014was coming into our neighborhood for their conference. We gathered some people together and said, \u201cWouldn\u2019t it be great if we could talk about what a theology of marriage ought to be?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>What we began to talk about was, \u201cWhat if you took a really awesome theologian\u2014and then you took some practitioners\/people that are in the trenches with families\u2014what if we got them to talk together about how <em>great<\/em> marriage is?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCurt, I was <em>shocked<\/em>, frankly, when we went to talk to some of these world-class theologians. Most of them had <em>never<\/em> written, really, on marriage; but they all had <em>wanted<\/em> to; right? It was amazing who we got to write and how that came about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> Yes; there was no reason that they should have received a phone call from us or responded to our emails when we inquired; and then, when we did, each of them, beginning with Darrell Bock at the Howard Hendrick\u2019s Center at Dallas Seminary, responded with the idea of: \u201cThat\u2019s something that I\u2019ve been wanting to do. That\u2019s something that is needed in the church; it\u2019s something that\u2019s needed in the culture.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Anytime you talk to a pastor and ask him: \u201cPastoral ministry: what are you spending most of your time dealing with?\u201d What he is spending 50 percent or more of his time on is marriage and family issues. He may have gotten one class on that when he was at seminary. Here he is, now, in real life, going, \u201cWhere do I get the help I need?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019ll add to this; because I\u2019m doing it still, as a pastor. I\u2019m <em>not<\/em> just spending time on the practical application side of marriage either; I need theology.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Yes! Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, it\u2019s big, especially now in our culture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Why would you guys think those things are really important to include together\u2014the practicality with the theology?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>I think some of it really comes from the idea that, when we ask a lay person or we ask a pastor, \u201cDo you have a theology of marriage?\u201d and they say, \u201cYes, I do\u201d; they don\u2019t realize how much their theology has been influenced by the culture and by the thought propositions that are outside of the church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor us to be able to bring together the theologians\u2014they don\u2019t talk to each other\u2014so the theologians write on: \u201cThese are the things that come from philosophy, and from the Scripture, and from theology\u201d; yet, the practical is not part of that. At the same time, the practitioner\/the therapist will work on helping somebody really <em>grow<\/em> their marriage; but it\u2019s not necessarily rooted in Scripture\u2014it\u2019s more psychological; it\u2019s more sociological. To bring the two together\u2014it\u2019s just been <em>brilliant<\/em> on the part of God to give us this opportunity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I know, when I first started reading the book\u2014and I didn\u2019t know the back story from Dallas and Genesis 2:24\u2014but the first several articles were that! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Yes; when you look at the Scripture,when the people of Israel are entering into the Promised Land, those first five books\u2014the Pentateuch\u2014are the Orientation Handbook that Moses is preparing for them. He takes them back to remember who they are, as a people\u2014that they are the people of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPart of it takes them all the way back to the Garden of Eden, in the beginning of time, and that relationship between Adam and Eve\u2014it\u2019s Genesis 2:24. That kind of brings the transition between Adam and Eve and the rest of history; because from that point, it enters into Genesis 3 and the Fall, and the rest of history of those people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, when you find the New Testament: when Paul begins to talk about marriage, where does he go? When Jesus is questioned about divorce, where does He go?\u2014Genesis 2:24. It really is the watershed; it is the <em>central<\/em> verse of what God wants us to really understand about His design and purpose for marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Some of our listeners are going: \u201cI don\u2019t know that I know Genesis 2:24. Sounds like it\u2019s pretty important.\u201d If you\u2019ve been to a wedding, you\u2019ve probably heard it recited; right? What is Genesis 2:24?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>Genesis 2:24, \u201cFor this cause a man shall leave his father and his mother, shall cleave to his wife and the two shall become one flesh; and the man and his wife were both naked and unashamed,\u201d\u2014I like that part. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s pretty simple. We hear it said and it\u2019s kind of like, \u201cYou\u2019re telling me you can write chapter after chapter about that verse?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>If you think about it, from a theological position, really what it is\u2014is, when you break it down, you realize they were created <em>for<\/em> a purpose; it\u2019s missional. Part of this book\u2014it kind of falls into several different areas. It starts off with just the foundation\u2014this book on marriage: \u201cWhy is it such a big deal?\u2014well, it reflects the very <em>nature<\/em> of God.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then beyond that: \u201cWell, yes; but isn\u2019t it broken?\u201d Well, there\u2019s a whole section\u2014we got several people to write on brokenness; because we see marriage in its imperfect state\u2014but when people understand the majesty, and the encouragement, and the healing, and the hope for marriage\u2014right now, some people are listening and going: \u201cAre you kidding?! Nobody even gets married anymore, and you look at the stats on different areas.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCurt, one of the things you talk about is how the case\u2014and one of our writers wrote about for marriage\u2014talk about that. It isn\u2019t just the fact that\u2014really, the case for marriage hasn\u2019t been made in a lot of ways for a lot of people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>It\u2019s really interesting\u2014when we look at marriage as a culture; when you look at marriage as a church\u2014the idea is: \u201cMarriage is in trouble.\u201d We see this from same-sex marriage; we see that in co-habitation; we see divorce; we see the rising out-of-wedlock birth rate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe begin to panic in that, and we want to think that it has just happened; but it\u2019s been going on for a long time as our culture has broken down. We can go back to the \u201860s in the Sexual Revolution; we can go back to the beginning of no-fault divorce\u2014those are the things that begin to unwind marriage\/unwind the stability of the family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe idea is not that marriage has to be defended; marriage needs to be declared for what God designed it to be. If we can take marriage\u2014and we can lift it up on a pedestal\/if we can, like a jewel, put it on that velvet pedestal\u2014it will draw the world to itself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI love it\u2014I think it was Spurgeon, in the beginning of the 20<sup>th<\/sup> century, when the gospel was under fire\u2014and the whole fundamentalist movement. Spurgeon made the statement\u2014he said: \u201cThe gospel doesn\u2019t need to be defended. The gospel is like a bulldog. All you have to do is remove the leash, and the gospel will defend itself.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe think the same thing is true about marriage. It\u2019s not that it will defend itself; but if we declare the beauty\/the glory of a marriage as God designed it, the world will be flocking to the doors of the church, will be asking questions of Christians: \u201cHow do I get a marriage like that? What is that really about?!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>As people in this culture are saying: \u201cWhy do I need that piece of paper? Why is that so important? Why can\u2019t we just live together? This is fine; we love each other; why is it so important to have that marriage title?\u201d It\u2019s changing; more and more people aren\u2019t getting married, and they are saying it\u2019s not that important. Why is it, and why will that be the beacon?\u2014marriage, the beacon of the future?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>Absolutely, Ann. It\u2019s not about a piece of paper, but it is about commitment. The idea of commitment is not: \u201cHow do I feel about you today?\u201d or even about tomorrow; but it is a long-term, life-long promise that you make\u2014a promise that provides the security. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn the book, we reference Robert Sternberg, out of Yale University. He defines love as being three dynamics: the dynamic of passion, commitment, and intimacy. The truth is that a couple cannot move from passion\u2014the things that <em>draw<\/em> them toward each other\u2014to intimacy and oneness without being naked and unashamed\/without living vulnerably with each other and taking risks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt would be imprudent to live in that kind of nakedness, without a commitment\/without the idea of saying: \u201cListen, no matter what I find out about you, I\u2019m here for you. This is long term; I\u2019m in it with you, and we\u2019re going to do it together.\u201d It\u2019s not about the paper; but the paper <em>declares<\/em> what is important; that is, the idea that this is a commitment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>I\u2019ll jump in there to say, \u201cHere\u2019s the reality of our culture too.\u201d I grew up in Scottsdale, Arizona, in a single-parent home, a long time ago. In fact, we were the only kids\u2014we went to a big public school, called Kachina Elementary School. Our football team was called the Kachina Dolls. We struck fear in the heart of all the other teams we played: [Laughter] \u201cThe dolls are coming!!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You\u2019re not kidding?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>No, no. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>The Dolls?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>The Kachina Dolls! Anyway, the point is we weren\u2019t very good. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThink about this\u2014we were the only kids in our grade <em>school<\/em>\u2014not just our class; the <em>entire<\/em> school\u2014from a divorced home. My wife is a first\/second grade teacher. Last year, she had 22 kids in her class; 18 out of the 22 were from single-parent or blended families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think part of why people don\u2019t think the piece of paper is a big deal\u2014is they see so much brokenness and so much hurt; we don\u2019t know what <em>health<\/em> is. I think that is one of the reasons I was so excited about this book\u2014to be able to get people that could, at a depth level, explain: \u201cOkay; why is commitment such a big deal to God? How does it get to lived out? Where did intimacy first begin?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen we get people\u2014you know a lot of these people; you\u2019ve had them here on your program; you guys do such a <em>great<\/em> job <em>all<\/em> the time, of just declaring, \u201cLets <em>build<\/em> these great God-honoring relationships,\u201d\u2014a lot of the practitioners are in this book that can really help you figure out how to live it out. But to take that deeper dive with these theologians and really realize, like Curt is saying, \u201cMan, it\u2019s a diamond.\u201d We just don\u2019t see the diamond very often anymore and so this helps do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It is interesting, if you think\u2014even my experience in the church, growing up in a church with my single mom\u2014I\u2019m a little bit like you, John\u2014I was the <em>only<\/em> kid in my elementary school without a dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s what\u2019s really interesting\u2014the first time I ever heard a theology of marriage from Genesis 2:24 is\u2014guess when and guess where\u2014at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>, as an engaged couple, two weeks before our wedding. I went there and I\u2019m thinking: \u201cI\u2019ve <em>never<\/em> heard this in church. I\u2019ve never heard it anywhere; and here I am, at an outside-the-church event; and there it is.\u201d I\u2019m sitting there, going, \u201cThis is from the first Book of the Bible?\u201d I didn\u2019t even know that! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s my question: \u201cHow does the church now, or the Christian community\u2014how do we bring that? We\u2019ve got your book; how do we bring this into this culture, where marriage, and not getting married, and same-sex marriage is the talk of the day? You can\u2019t go on Twitter<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\/you can\u2019t go on any social media, any hour, and not see discussions about this topic that you\u2019re writing about. How do we enter into that conversation in a way that makes a positive difference?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>How do we become the diamond?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>I\u2019ll throw out one thing and then throw it to Curt. This book, from the very beginning\u2014and I know this is Curt and Rhonda, his wife\u2014this is their heart and their ministry\u2014and everybody that\u2019s involved in this\u2014that it wouldn\u2019t just be one of these: \u201cOkay, lets get a bunch of people that are dinosaurs to write about stuff,\u201d and then it will go up on the shelf. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Instead], it\u2019s called a <em>continuing<\/em> conversation. I think what we\u2019ve got to do is give the church, not just permission, but really the challenge to: \u201cWell, let\u2019s step in to all those issues and talk about them.\u201d We hit every one of these things: gender, divorce, commitment. I think part of it is\u2014we\u2019ve got to continue the conversation and, really, get it <em>started<\/em> in some cases.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you find that the theologians are in lock step on these issues? I mean, if you\u2019re going to get into divorce\/if you\u2019re going to get into gender\u2014[Laughter]\u2014even among conservative theologians\u2014there\u2019s divergence on some of these things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>In fact, that\u2019s been part of the challenge in trying to find: \u201cWho are the ones who can agree enough to be in a book together?\u201d\u2014right? [Laughter] \u201cAnd who will the publisher <em>allow<\/em> us to include in that? and \u201cAs that continues to grow\/as that community continues to grow, who is willing to speak to whom?\u201d because, again, often, the therapist would not be willing to speak to the theologians; the theologians to the therapists; and then the theologians with the theologians, as you said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was really interesting for us to have two of our editors that were working with us\u2014one that was from California, the west coast; one was from the southeast\u2014both theologians; both holding to very similar views, but having different perspectives on the same view. The editor on the west coast was looking at what needs to happen to <em>men<\/em>: \u201cThe men need to step up and take leadership and not act like such pansies and not be so soft about everything.\u201d The guy on the east coast\/our editor\u2014he\u2019s looking at that; and he says, \u201cMen are not defined by what kind of gun rack, what kind of truck they drive, and whether or not they go to NASCAR; they need to soften up and be more tender.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe sat in a room like this, with those two guys arguing with each other\u2014trying to bring them back to a place, and saying: \u201cYou know what? You\u2019re both right,\u201d and \u201cWe need to <em>think<\/em> through this <em>together<\/em>.\u201d That\u2019s why the conversation is <em>so<\/em> important.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I look at this book and I think to myself: \u201cGod designed marriage for our good and His glory. Here\u2019s what is missing today. First of all, we think it\u2019s all about our good. That\u2019s our whole focus: \u201cThis has got to be all about my good. If I don\u2019t <em>feel<\/em> like there\u2019s good in it, then I\u2019ll go find something else that I feel like there\u2019s good in.\u201d But we\u2019ve lost sight of the fact that He designed it for His glory.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor couples to say, \u201cIt\u2019s <em>not<\/em> just about this,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s back to what Gary Thomas said in the subtitle of his book, <em>Sacred Marriage: \u201cThe Purpose of Marriage is Not Just Your Happiness but Your Holiness. <\/em>What if it\u2019s about putting God on display for the whole world?\u201d We have lost sight of that as a <em>fundamental<\/em> priority of the marriage relationship. Even when it\u2019s hard, even when we\u2019re in conflict, even when there are challenges, we have to ask the question: \u201cHow do I reflect the glory of God in this relationship?\u2014because that\u2019s what I\u2019ve been called to do, fundamentally.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think most people have any idea that\u2019s a part of the purpose of marriage. I would agree with Dave; when we sat at that marriage conference, the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>, it was the first time I realized and heard: \u201cOur marriage is a reflection and a mirror of God.\u201d It excited me, like, \u201cWhoa; it\u2019s more than about us and our love for one other; it\u2019s a reflection of who our Father is to the world.\u201d It\u2019s so attractive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019ll throw this in\u2014here\u2019s what theology can do when you get\/you understand proper theology. I\u2019ve never, in 40 years of marriage, not had a day that I don\u2019t remember that. I didn\u2019t know it two weeks before I got married; I should have, but I didn\u2019t. Maybe it was taught and I missed it; I don\u2019t think it was really taught. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI heard it that weekend; and I haven\u2019t gone a day without thinking, \u201cThis isn\u2019t about my happiness; it never was,\u201d\u2014even though, two weeks before our wedding, that\u2019s all I was thinking about: \u201cI want to be happy,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m picking her, and she\u2019s going to make me happy,\u201d\u2014and that didn\u2019t happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That didn\u2019t work. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>There better be something bigger than that; right? But that\u2019s why you wrote it. That is <em>so<\/em> important\u2014the foundation of a doctrine that says: \u201cHere\u2019s the truth that you live out of.\u201d That\u2019s why you wrote; thanks!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>There\u2019s something so powerful\u2014we have a daughter that lives in Seattle. You all have been to Seattle; right? The first eight times I went to Seattle, it was cloud cover. I\u2019d fly in, and everyone kept saying how pretty it was. I thought, \u201cYes; right!\u201d And then, all of a sudden, the ninth time I fly in\u2014and the way our hotel was\u2014I walked out of the hotel; and there was Mt. Rainier, popping out of the clouds, and just <em>spectacular<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s what we are trying to say with this book. There are terms like unity, sexuality\u2014God\u2019s view on it. Man, it\u2019s like, all of a sudden, you realize: \u201cThese have been here all the time,\u201d\u2014now there\u2019s been so much smoke blown over\/so many clouds\u2014but man, when you realize those mountains aren\u2019t going anywhere\u2014and these principles\/these biblical principles. For a group, just to dig into each one of these and realize: \u201cOh my goodness! There\u2019s so much here.\u201d It really is encouraging; because no matter what goes on in culture\u2014a lot of it is smoke and mirrors\u2014and we get to blow away some of those clouds and really see those mountains.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I know some of our listeners are thinking, \u201cWe just need first aid for our marriage. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: \u201c<\/strong>Tell us what to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: \u201c<\/strong>We\u2019re in triage; so we need a bandage, and we need some pain killers, and whatever else.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe understand that; but long term, for your marital health, you need to be soaking in the kind of stuff you guys are talking about here; so when you\u2019re out of the ER\u2014and you\u2019ve gotten the help you need, or before you get in to the ER\/maybe to avoid being in the ER\u2014get a book like the one Curt and John have helped put together: <em>Marriage: It\u2019s Foundation, Theology, and Mission in a Changing World<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGet a group of other couples and just start going slowly through this book. Slowly, I\u2019m figuring, Dave, this would take you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Hey, wait a minute, Bob. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014with you and a group of other couples\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, definitely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014if you were going slow through this, I mean, you could spend\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014would take a while. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014six to nine months\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Easy!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014a week or every other week\u2014going through a different chapter\/a different article and having some really <em>great<\/em> conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>There\u2019s people that would think: \u201cOh, it\u2019s going to be boring; it\u2019s going to be dry.\u201d Oh, no! It\u2019s going to be rich. It\u2019s going to take you\u2014like we started the program today: \u201cWe\u2019re going in the deep end. You\u2019re not in the kiddie pool anymore; you\u2019re swimming, and you need to.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; of course, we\u2019ve got copies of the book, <a id=\"_Hlk29479171\"><em>Marriage: It\u2019s Foundation, Theology, and Mission in a Changing World<\/em><\/a><em>. <\/em>It\u2019s available in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can find out more about the book. Order it from us online when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to get a copy of the book: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number. Again, the book is called <em>Marriage: Its Foundation, Theology, and Mission in a Changing World. <\/em>Order online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call to order at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhile we\u2019re on the subject of marriage, again, I want to remind you\u2014if you\u2019d like to save 50 percent off the regular registration fee for one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways, now is the time to contact us to sign up, either online or by phone; and plan to attend a getaway this spring. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can\u2019t tell you how many people I run into, and we\u2019re talking\u2014they say: \u201cWe love FamilyLife. We listen to you guys all the time. We really like the program.\u201d I say, \u201cHave you ever been to one of our getaways?\u201d \u201cOh, no; we\u2019ve talked about that. We\u2019ve just never been able to do it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Make this a priority<\/em>\u2014you\u2019ve got to decide: \u201cWe\u2019re going to do it this year. It\u2019s going to be a hassle. Yes, we\u2019ve got to get somebody to watch the kids; we\u2019ve got to find a weekend.\u201d It\u2019s always a challenge, but it\u2019s <em>so<\/em> worth it to get the time away together and invest in your marriage. Of course, if you sign up now, you save 50 percent off the regular registration fee; and you\u2019ve got it on the books, so you can start planning for it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com to register or to find out when a getaway is coming to city near where you live or a city you\u2019d like to visit this spring. Or call us if you have any questions or if you would like to register by phone: 1-800- FL-TODAY is our number; it\u2019s <a id=\"_Hlk29478227\">1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.<\/a>\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we going to talk more about our marriages and how they can be the masterpiece that God intends for them to be\u2014the kind of masterpiece that people look at and go, \u201cI want to know more about Jesus, because of how I see Him at work in your marriage.\u201d John and Curt are going to be back with us, again, tomorrow. I hope you will be back with us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:29:03"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["26.6M"],"filesize_raw":["27888833"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305695.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305695.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Hamner and John Trent talk about how God had a specific purpose for Adam and Eve, but since the Fall, marriages have been in trouble. Together they explain that, even during difficulty, marriage is still important.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2020-01-20.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Both our understanding of marriage and our understanding of the gospel are under attack in our culture today. Curt Hamner says the best defense is to make sure that we get marriage and the gospel right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>Spurgeon made the statement\u2014he said the gospel doesn\u2019t need to be defended. The gospel is like a bulldog. All you have to do is reach down and remove the leash, and the gospel will defend itself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe think the same thing is true about marriage. If we declare the beauty\/the glory of a marriage, as God designed it, the world will be flocking to the doors of the church, will be asking questions of Christians: \u201cHow do I get a marriage like that? What is that really about?!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, January 20<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Do you think rightly\/biblically about marriage? Is the way you think about marriage being reflected in how you are living it out? We\u2019re going to find that out today with John Trent and Curt Hamner. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I hope you guys brought your scuba gear with you today because we\u2019re\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014we\u2019re going deep! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re headed to the deep end of the pool. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBefore I introduce our guests, let me remind our regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners we are about to kick off our spring season of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup><em> Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>marriage getaways. We\u2019re going to be hosting about five dozen of these getaways in cities all across the country this spring. This is your last opportunity, this week, to sign up for an upcoming getaway and save 50 percent off the registration fee\u2014this offer is good for [this] week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you want to take advantage of the savings and have a <em>great<\/em> getaway as a couple this spring, go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; find out when a getaway is coming to a city near where you live or a city you would like to visit this spring. Mark that off on your calendar, plan the getaway, and register this week so you can save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> is a fun and relaxing time away for couples; it\u2019s refreshing. We\u2019ve heard from so many couples, over the years, how important this weekend has been for their marriage. Take advantage of this special offer; register this week\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014or if you have any questions, call us at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, let me introduce our guests, who are joining us this week. We\u2019ve got Curt Hamner and John Trent joining us again. John, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Thank you!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Curt, welcome for the first time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>Thank you so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Nice to have both you guys here. These two guys have been working\u2014I\u2019m thinking, Curt, you and I sat out in your living room, in Southern California, more than two years ago. You were laying out your vision for\u2014this is not just a book; this is a project that you guys have been working on. Tell us how all of this came to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>Yes, it is. The ministry that Rhonda and I have\u2014we spend a lot of time coaching and counseling couples and teaching. Really, the background began during our seminary years, under the leadership of Dr. Howard Hendricks at Dallas Seminary, in a class that he called Christian Home. At the beginning of class, Prof would set us up with developing a theology of marriage, out of Genesis 2:24. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor 40 years, we have practiced and followed that idea of a theology of marriage. We began to look around and realize that was really wanting\u2014not only in the lives of couples\u2014but in churches and even in the pulpit. We realized that an organization that our son-in-law is involved with\u2014ETS, the Evangelical Theological Society\u2014was coming into our neighborhood for their conference. We gathered some people together and said, \u201cWouldn\u2019t it be great if we could talk about what a theology of marriage ought to be?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>What we began to talk about was, \u201cWhat if you took a really awesome theologian\u2014and then you took some practitioners\/people that are in the trenches with families\u2014what if we got them to talk together about how <em>great<\/em> marriage is?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCurt, I was <em>shocked<\/em>, frankly, when we went to talk to some of these world-class theologians. Most of them had <em>never<\/em> written, really, on marriage; but they all had <em>wanted<\/em> to; right? It was amazing who we got to write and how that came about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt:<\/strong> Yes; there was no reason that they should have received a phone call from us or responded to our emails when we inquired; and then, when we did, each of them, beginning with Darrell Bock at the Howard Hendrick\u2019s Center at Dallas Seminary, responded with the idea of: \u201cThat\u2019s something that I\u2019ve been wanting to do. That\u2019s something that is needed in the church; it\u2019s something that\u2019s needed in the culture.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Anytime you talk to a pastor and ask him: \u201cPastoral ministry: what are you spending most of your time dealing with?\u201d What he is spending 50 percent or more of his time on is marriage and family issues. He may have gotten one class on that when he was at seminary. Here he is, now, in real life, going, \u201cWhere do I get the help I need?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019ll add to this; because I\u2019m doing it still, as a pastor. I\u2019m <em>not<\/em> just spending time on the practical application side of marriage either; I need theology.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Yes! Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, it\u2019s big, especially now in our culture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Why would you guys think those things are really important to include together\u2014the practicality with the theology?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>I think some of it really comes from the idea that, when we ask a lay person or we ask a pastor, \u201cDo you have a theology of marriage?\u201d and they say, \u201cYes, I do\u201d; they don\u2019t realize how much their theology has been influenced by the culture and by the thought propositions that are outside of the church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor us to be able to bring together the theologians\u2014they don\u2019t talk to each other\u2014so the theologians write on: \u201cThese are the things that come from philosophy, and from the Scripture, and from theology\u201d; yet, the practical is not part of that. At the same time, the practitioner\/the therapist will work on helping somebody really <em>grow<\/em> their marriage; but it\u2019s not necessarily rooted in Scripture\u2014it\u2019s more psychological; it\u2019s more sociological. To bring the two together\u2014it\u2019s just been <em>brilliant<\/em> on the part of God to give us this opportunity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I know, when I first started reading the book\u2014and I didn\u2019t know the back story from Dallas and Genesis 2:24\u2014but the first several articles were that! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>Yes; when you look at the Scripture,when the people of Israel are entering into the Promised Land, those first five books\u2014the Pentateuch\u2014are the Orientation Handbook that Moses is preparing for them. He takes them back to remember who they are, as a people\u2014that they are the people of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPart of it takes them all the way back to the Garden of Eden, in the beginning of time, and that relationship between Adam and Eve\u2014it\u2019s Genesis 2:24. That kind of brings the transition between Adam and Eve and the rest of history; because from that point, it enters into Genesis 3 and the Fall, and the rest of history of those people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, when you find the New Testament: when Paul begins to talk about marriage, where does he go? When Jesus is questioned about divorce, where does He go?\u2014Genesis 2:24. It really is the watershed; it is the <em>central<\/em> verse of what God wants us to really understand about His design and purpose for marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Some of our listeners are going: \u201cI don\u2019t know that I know Genesis 2:24. Sounds like it\u2019s pretty important.\u201d If you\u2019ve been to a wedding, you\u2019ve probably heard it recited; right? What is Genesis 2:24?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>Genesis 2:24, \u201cFor this cause a man shall leave his father and his mother, shall cleave to his wife and the two shall become one flesh; and the man and his wife were both naked and unashamed,\u201d\u2014I like that part. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s pretty simple. We hear it said and it\u2019s kind of like, \u201cYou\u2019re telling me you can write chapter after chapter about that verse?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>If you think about it, from a theological position, really what it is\u2014is, when you break it down, you realize they were created <em>for<\/em> a purpose; it\u2019s missional. Part of this book\u2014it kind of falls into several different areas. It starts off with just the foundation\u2014this book on marriage: \u201cWhy is it such a big deal?\u2014well, it reflects the very <em>nature<\/em> of God.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then beyond that: \u201cWell, yes; but isn\u2019t it broken?\u201d Well, there\u2019s a whole section\u2014we got several people to write on brokenness; because we see marriage in its imperfect state\u2014but when people understand the majesty, and the encouragement, and the healing, and the hope for marriage\u2014right now, some people are listening and going: \u201cAre you kidding?! Nobody even gets married anymore, and you look at the stats on different areas.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCurt, one of the things you talk about is how the case\u2014and one of our writers wrote about for marriage\u2014talk about that. It isn\u2019t just the fact that\u2014really, the case for marriage hasn\u2019t been made in a lot of ways for a lot of people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>It\u2019s really interesting\u2014when we look at marriage as a culture; when you look at marriage as a church\u2014the idea is: \u201cMarriage is in trouble.\u201d We see this from same-sex marriage; we see that in co-habitation; we see divorce; we see the rising out-of-wedlock birth rate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe begin to panic in that, and we want to think that it has just happened; but it\u2019s been going on for a long time as our culture has broken down. We can go back to the \u201860s in the Sexual Revolution; we can go back to the beginning of no-fault divorce\u2014those are the things that begin to unwind marriage\/unwind the stability of the family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe idea is not that marriage has to be defended; marriage needs to be declared for what God designed it to be. If we can take marriage\u2014and we can lift it up on a pedestal\/if we can, like a jewel, put it on that velvet pedestal\u2014it will draw the world to itself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI love it\u2014I think it was Spurgeon, in the beginning of the 20<sup>th<\/sup> century, when the gospel was under fire\u2014and the whole fundamentalist movement. Spurgeon made the statement\u2014he said: \u201cThe gospel doesn\u2019t need to be defended. The gospel is like a bulldog. All you have to do is remove the leash, and the gospel will defend itself.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe think the same thing is true about marriage. It\u2019s not that it will defend itself; but if we declare the beauty\/the glory of a marriage as God designed it, the world will be flocking to the doors of the church, will be asking questions of Christians: \u201cHow do I get a marriage like that? What is that really about?!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>As people in this culture are saying: \u201cWhy do I need that piece of paper? Why is that so important? Why can\u2019t we just live together? This is fine; we love each other; why is it so important to have that marriage title?\u201d It\u2019s changing; more and more people aren\u2019t getting married, and they are saying it\u2019s not that important. Why is it, and why will that be the beacon?\u2014marriage, the beacon of the future?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>Absolutely, Ann. It\u2019s not about a piece of paper, but it is about commitment. The idea of commitment is not: \u201cHow do I feel about you today?\u201d or even about tomorrow; but it is a long-term, life-long promise that you make\u2014a promise that provides the security. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn the book, we reference Robert Sternberg, out of Yale University. He defines love as being three dynamics: the dynamic of passion, commitment, and intimacy. The truth is that a couple cannot move from passion\u2014the things that <em>draw<\/em> them toward each other\u2014to intimacy and oneness without being naked and unashamed\/without living vulnerably with each other and taking risks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt would be imprudent to live in that kind of nakedness, without a commitment\/without the idea of saying: \u201cListen, no matter what I find out about you, I\u2019m here for you. This is long term; I\u2019m in it with you, and we\u2019re going to do it together.\u201d It\u2019s not about the paper; but the paper <em>declares<\/em> what is important; that is, the idea that this is a commitment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>I\u2019ll jump in there to say, \u201cHere\u2019s the reality of our culture too.\u201d I grew up in Scottsdale, Arizona, in a single-parent home, a long time ago. In fact, we were the only kids\u2014we went to a big public school, called Kachina Elementary School. Our football team was called the Kachina Dolls. We struck fear in the heart of all the other teams we played: [Laughter] \u201cThe dolls are coming!!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You\u2019re not kidding?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>No, no. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>The Dolls?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>The Kachina Dolls! Anyway, the point is we weren\u2019t very good. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThink about this\u2014we were the only kids in our grade <em>school<\/em>\u2014not just our class; the <em>entire<\/em> school\u2014from a divorced home. My wife is a first\/second grade teacher. Last year, she had 22 kids in her class; 18 out of the 22 were from single-parent or blended families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think part of why people don\u2019t think the piece of paper is a big deal\u2014is they see so much brokenness and so much hurt; we don\u2019t know what <em>health<\/em> is. I think that is one of the reasons I was so excited about this book\u2014to be able to get people that could, at a depth level, explain: \u201cOkay; why is commitment such a big deal to God? How does it get to lived out? Where did intimacy first begin?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen we get people\u2014you know a lot of these people; you\u2019ve had them here on your program; you guys do such a <em>great<\/em> job <em>all<\/em> the time, of just declaring, \u201cLets <em>build<\/em> these great God-honoring relationships,\u201d\u2014a lot of the practitioners are in this book that can really help you figure out how to live it out. But to take that deeper dive with these theologians and really realize, like Curt is saying, \u201cMan, it\u2019s a diamond.\u201d We just don\u2019t see the diamond very often anymore and so this helps do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It is interesting, if you think\u2014even my experience in the church, growing up in a church with my single mom\u2014I\u2019m a little bit like you, John\u2014I was the <em>only<\/em> kid in my elementary school without a dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s what\u2019s really interesting\u2014the first time I ever heard a theology of marriage from Genesis 2:24 is\u2014guess when and guess where\u2014at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>, as an engaged couple, two weeks before our wedding. I went there and I\u2019m thinking: \u201cI\u2019ve <em>never<\/em> heard this in church. I\u2019ve never heard it anywhere; and here I am, at an outside-the-church event; and there it is.\u201d I\u2019m sitting there, going, \u201cThis is from the first Book of the Bible?\u201d I didn\u2019t even know that! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s my question: \u201cHow does the church now, or the Christian community\u2014how do we bring that? We\u2019ve got your book; how do we bring this into this culture, where marriage, and not getting married, and same-sex marriage is the talk of the day? You can\u2019t go on Twitter<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\/you can\u2019t go on any social media, any hour, and not see discussions about this topic that you\u2019re writing about. How do we enter into that conversation in a way that makes a positive difference?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>How do we become the diamond?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>I\u2019ll throw out one thing and then throw it to Curt. This book, from the very beginning\u2014and I know this is Curt and Rhonda, his wife\u2014this is their heart and their ministry\u2014and everybody that\u2019s involved in this\u2014that it wouldn\u2019t just be one of these: \u201cOkay, lets get a bunch of people that are dinosaurs to write about stuff,\u201d and then it will go up on the shelf. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Instead], it\u2019s called a <em>continuing<\/em> conversation. I think what we\u2019ve got to do is give the church, not just permission, but really the challenge to: \u201cWell, let\u2019s step in to all those issues and talk about them.\u201d We hit every one of these things: gender, divorce, commitment. I think part of it is\u2014we\u2019ve got to continue the conversation and, really, get it <em>started<\/em> in some cases.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you find that the theologians are in lock step on these issues? I mean, if you\u2019re going to get into divorce\/if you\u2019re going to get into gender\u2014[Laughter]\u2014even among conservative theologians\u2014there\u2019s divergence on some of these things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Curt: <\/strong>In fact, that\u2019s been part of the challenge in trying to find: \u201cWho are the ones who can agree enough to be in a book together?\u201d\u2014right? [Laughter] \u201cAnd who will the publisher <em>allow<\/em> us to include in that? and \u201cAs that continues to grow\/as that community continues to grow, who is willing to speak to whom?\u201d because, again, often, the therapist would not be willing to speak to the theologians; the theologians to the therapists; and then the theologians with the theologians, as you said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was really interesting for us to have two of our editors that were working with us\u2014one that was from California, the west coast; one was from the southeast\u2014both theologians; both holding to very similar views, but having different perspectives on the same view. The editor on the west coast was looking at what needs to happen to <em>men<\/em>: \u201cThe men need to step up and take leadership and not act like such pansies and not be so soft about everything.\u201d The guy on the east coast\/our editor\u2014he\u2019s looking at that; and he says, \u201cMen are not defined by what kind of gun rack, what kind of truck they drive, and whether or not they go to NASCAR; they need to soften up and be more tender.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe sat in a room like this, with those two guys arguing with each other\u2014trying to bring them back to a place, and saying: \u201cYou know what? You\u2019re both right,\u201d and \u201cWe need to <em>think<\/em> through this <em>together<\/em>.\u201d That\u2019s why the conversation is <em>so<\/em> important.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I look at this book and I think to myself: \u201cGod designed marriage for our good and His glory. Here\u2019s what is missing today. First of all, we think it\u2019s all about our good. That\u2019s our whole focus: \u201cThis has got to be all about my good. If I don\u2019t <em>feel<\/em> like there\u2019s good in it, then I\u2019ll go find something else that I feel like there\u2019s good in.\u201d But we\u2019ve lost sight of the fact that He designed it for His glory.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor couples to say, \u201cIt\u2019s <em>not<\/em> just about this,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s back to what Gary Thomas said in the subtitle of his book, <em>Sacred Marriage: \u201cThe Purpose of Marriage is Not Just Your Happiness but Your Holiness. <\/em>What if it\u2019s about putting God on display for the whole world?\u201d We have lost sight of that as a <em>fundamental<\/em> priority of the marriage relationship. Even when it\u2019s hard, even when we\u2019re in conflict, even when there are challenges, we have to ask the question: \u201cHow do I reflect the glory of God in this relationship?\u2014because that\u2019s what I\u2019ve been called to do, fundamentally.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think most people have any idea that\u2019s a part of the purpose of marriage. I would agree with Dave; when we sat at that marriage conference, the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>, it was the first time I realized and heard: \u201cOur marriage is a reflection and a mirror of God.\u201d It excited me, like, \u201cWhoa; it\u2019s more than about us and our love for one other; it\u2019s a reflection of who our Father is to the world.\u201d It\u2019s so attractive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019ll throw this in\u2014here\u2019s what theology can do when you get\/you understand proper theology. I\u2019ve never, in 40 years of marriage, not had a day that I don\u2019t remember that. I didn\u2019t know it two weeks before I got married; I should have, but I didn\u2019t. Maybe it was taught and I missed it; I don\u2019t think it was really taught. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI heard it that weekend; and I haven\u2019t gone a day without thinking, \u201cThis isn\u2019t about my happiness; it never was,\u201d\u2014even though, two weeks before our wedding, that\u2019s all I was thinking about: \u201cI want to be happy,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m picking her, and she\u2019s going to make me happy,\u201d\u2014and that didn\u2019t happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That didn\u2019t work. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>There better be something bigger than that; right? But that\u2019s why you wrote it. That is <em>so<\/em> important\u2014the foundation of a doctrine that says: \u201cHere\u2019s the truth that you live out of.\u201d That\u2019s why you wrote; thanks!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>John: <\/strong>There\u2019s something so powerful\u2014we have a daughter that lives in Seattle. You all have been to Seattle; right? The first eight times I went to Seattle, it was cloud cover. I\u2019d fly in, and everyone kept saying how pretty it was. I thought, \u201cYes; right!\u201d And then, all of a sudden, the ninth time I fly in\u2014and the way our hotel was\u2014I walked out of the hotel; and there was Mt. Rainier, popping out of the clouds, and just <em>spectacular<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s what we are trying to say with this book. There are terms like unity, sexuality\u2014God\u2019s view on it. Man, it\u2019s like, all of a sudden, you realize: \u201cThese have been here all the time,\u201d\u2014now there\u2019s been so much smoke blown over\/so many clouds\u2014but man, when you realize those mountains aren\u2019t going anywhere\u2014and these principles\/these biblical principles. For a group, just to dig into each one of these and realize: \u201cOh my goodness! There\u2019s so much here.\u201d It really is encouraging; because no matter what goes on in culture\u2014a lot of it is smoke and mirrors\u2014and we get to blow away some of those clouds and really see those mountains.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I know some of our listeners are thinking, \u201cWe just need first aid for our marriage. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: \u201c<\/strong>Tell us what to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: \u201c<\/strong>We\u2019re in triage; so we need a bandage, and we need some pain killers, and whatever else.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe understand that; but long term, for your marital health, you need to be soaking in the kind of stuff you guys are talking about here; so when you\u2019re out of the ER\u2014and you\u2019ve gotten the help you need, or before you get in to the ER\/maybe to avoid being in the ER\u2014get a book like the one Curt and John have helped put together: <em>Marriage: It\u2019s Foundation, Theology, and Mission in a Changing World<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGet a group of other couples and just start going slowly through this book. Slowly, I\u2019m figuring, Dave, this would take you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Hey, wait a minute, Bob. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014with you and a group of other couples\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, definitely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014if you were going slow through this, I mean, you could spend\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014would take a while. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014six to nine months\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Easy!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014a week or every other week\u2014going through a different chapter\/a different article and having some really <em>great<\/em> conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>There\u2019s people that would think: \u201cOh, it\u2019s going to be boring; it\u2019s going to be dry.\u201d Oh, no! It\u2019s going to be rich. It\u2019s going to take you\u2014like we started the program today: \u201cWe\u2019re going in the deep end. You\u2019re not in the kiddie pool anymore; you\u2019re swimming, and you need to.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; of course, we\u2019ve got copies of the book, <a id=\"_Hlk29479171\"><em>Marriage: It\u2019s Foundation, Theology, and Mission in a Changing World<\/em><\/a><em>. <\/em>It\u2019s available in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can find out more about the book. Order it from us online when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to get a copy of the book: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number. Again, the book is called <em>Marriage: Its Foundation, Theology, and Mission in a Changing World. <\/em>Order online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call to order at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhile we\u2019re on the subject of marriage, again, I want to remind you\u2014if you\u2019d like to save 50 percent off the regular registration fee for one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways, now is the time to contact us to sign up, either online or by phone; and plan to attend a getaway this spring. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can\u2019t tell you how many people I run into, and we\u2019re talking\u2014they say: \u201cWe love FamilyLife. We listen to you guys all the time. We really like the program.\u201d I say, \u201cHave you ever been to one of our getaways?\u201d \u201cOh, no; we\u2019ve talked about that. We\u2019ve just never been able to do it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Make this a priority<\/em>\u2014you\u2019ve got to decide: \u201cWe\u2019re going to do it this year. It\u2019s going to be a hassle. Yes, we\u2019ve got to get somebody to watch the kids; we\u2019ve got to find a weekend.\u201d It\u2019s always a challenge, but it\u2019s <em>so<\/em> worth it to get the time away together and invest in your marriage. Of course, if you sign up now, you save 50 percent off the regular registration fee; and you\u2019ve got it on the books, so you can start planning for it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com to register or to find out when a getaway is coming to city near where you live or a city you\u2019d like to visit this spring. Or call us if you have any questions or if you would like to register by phone: 1-800- FL-TODAY is our number; it\u2019s <a id=\"_Hlk29478227\">1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.<\/a>\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we going to talk more about our marriages and how they can be the masterpiece that God intends for them to be\u2014the kind of masterpiece that people look at and go, \u201cI want to know more about Jesus, because of how I see Him at work in your marriage.\u201d John and Curt are going to be back with us, again, tomorrow. I hope you will be back with us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/305695","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305695"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305695"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305695"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305695"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=305695"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=305695"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=305695"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}