{"id":305619,"date":"2019-12-17T06:00:05","date_gmt":"2019-12-17T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/learners-explorers-and-focusers\/"},"modified":"2019-12-17T06:00:05","modified_gmt":"2019-12-17T11:00:05","slug":"learners-explorers-and-focusers","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/learners-explorers-and-focusers\/","title":{"rendered":"Learners, Explorers, and Focusers"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Steve Argue notes that most young adults are embracing a theology that tells them &#8220;God wants me to be happy.&#8221; Argue shows parents the different stages in the young adult journey.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-12-17.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:25","filesize":"26.01M","filesize_raw":"27277182","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2856,2814,2855],"tags":[6808],"podcast_series":[8324],"cwp_profile":[9586],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305619","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-adult-children","category-releasing-your-child","category-teens","tag-parenting-young-adults","podcast_series-growing-with","cwp_profile-steve-argue","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305619\/learners-explorers-and-focusers","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305619\/learners-explorers-and-focusers","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"nh9fez1Q2M\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/learners-explorers-and-focusers\/\">Learners, Explorers, and Focusers<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/learners-explorers-and-focusers\/embed\/#?secret=nh9fez1Q2M\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Learners, Explorers, and Focusers&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"nh9fez1Q2M\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-12-17.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-12-17.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When does a young person move from being a young person to being an adult\/being a grownup? Is there an age for that? How does our relationship with them and their relationship with us change during that time? Here\u2019s Steve Argue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>You know, I think, as parents, we\u2019re thinking about, \u201cWell, how do I parent my kid as they\u2019re getting older?\u201d but we just need to realize, if we use empathy\/if we look the other way, a young person\u2019s negotiating the same thing: \u201cNow, I\u2019m 18. What\u2019s my relationship with my mom and dad? What does that look like? If I go away, how do we be a family, now, that we\u2019re not all under the same roof anymore?\u201d This is completely new for them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we sometimes think they know what to do. It\u2019s all new\u2014like every step along the way is new to them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, December 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. How do we, as moms and dads, stay connected with our young adults, even after they\u2019ve become young adults? We\u2019ll talk with Steve Argue about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. My wife and I, from time to time, will look at each other and say, \u201cAre we becoming those people, who look at the next generation and say, \u2018Get off my lawn\u2019?\u201d You know what I mean? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Are you, Bob?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cYou!\u2014kid!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re a little concerned that those thoughts pop into our head, and we don\u2019t want to be those people. But you know, you do; you watch the next generation emerge\u2014and I\u2019m sure my parents watched my generation emerge\u2014and you just think: \u201cWhat are these kids doing and thinking?!\u201d and \u201cIs this ever going to resolve itself?\u201d and \u201cAren\u2019t they going to burn down cities?\u201d; you know? [Laughter] You worry about where things are going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis week, we\u2019re trying to say, \u201cHow can we, as parents, help our kids move into adult life in a way that enables them to be who they are and interact with the culture, as it is, and yet keep Jesus at the center of all that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I have actually yelled at a kid to get off my lawn, Bob; really.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m sure you have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would be <em>scared<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Wait, wait, wait; no, you haven\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It was all\u2014Ann doesn\u2019t even know this. It was only because I just planted new grass seed. I had the little yellow caution tape around. This kid\u2019s running through; I said, \u201cYou can run on any other part of the yard, just get off that part!\u201d [Laughter] So I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m becoming that guy!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We have Steve Argue joining us this week on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Steve, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>It\u2019s so good to be with you again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I should say Dr. Steven Argue. Dr. Argue is a part of the Fuller Youth Institute; he\u2019s an associate professor at Fuller Seminary. He, along with other colleagues in the FYI\/Fuller Youth Institute, are trying to help all of us, as parents and as youth leaders in churches, know how we can interact with culture, as it is, and kids, as they are, and help faith remain intact and vibrant in those kids\u2019 lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I remember reading research done by a sociologist at Notre Dame, kind of a famous study that Dr. Christian Smith did, where he said what kids are believing today\/what they\u2019re being introduced to today in their churches is moralistic therapeutic deism, which he is said is not authentic Christianity\u2014it\u2019s kind of an aberrant; it\u2019s a caricature of the real thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIs his diagnosis, from decades ago, still accurate today? Is this what kids are learning in churches?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes, I think it depends on the churches. I mean, there\u2019s been some research that\u2019s been done to actually look more specifically at different sort of church congregations, or backgrounds, etc., etc.\u2014but I think there is something to that. For our listeners, Bob, as you know, this idea of moralistic therapeutic deism is basically this gospel, if you will, that\u2019s inadvertently taught in our churches that says, \u201cGod wants you to be good and happy; and to show up when I need you\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>What\u2019s happening a lot of times is\u2014young people have adopted that; but what\u2019s interesting\u2014and Christian Smith, also, says\u2014is that the reason that they\u2019ve adopted it\u2014and you inferred to this\u2014is that that\u2019s what they\u2019ve been taught. It\u2019s actually come from their parents or from their churches. They are living out\u2014quite well, thank you\u2014the teaching that we\u2019ve done with and to them. I think there are some challenges there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But they\u2019re finding, when they get to college and into real life, that: \u201cI don\u2019t believe that\u2019s true\u2014that there is a God, who wants me to be happy, and who wants me to be good; and as long as I\u2019m good, He\u2019ll make me happy,\u201d and \u201cHe\u2019ll show up when I need Him to.\u201d They just go, \u201cThat doesn\u2019t work in real life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes, it doesn\u2019t. I think this is always the challenge with young people, growing up; is that, all of a sudden, they come to this realization that, \u201cIf I do the formula, that doesn\u2019t mean that everything will turn out right for me.\u201d I mean, we all probably\u2014us around this table but, also, the listeners listening to this\u2014have probably thought, \u201cYou know, if I just follow Jesus wholeheartedly, then nothing will go wrong with me or the people that I love.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t think there\u2019s anybody at this table or listening that can ever say, for certain, that that\u2019s been the case; because life is complicated, and things are thrown at us that we never suspected. We live in these moments of disequilibrium\u2014where, all of a sudden, we have to renegotiate our understanding of who God is, and who we are in relation to God, and how this all works in the world. If we have a gospel that actually isn\u2019t true\u2014this moralistic therapeutic deism\u2014it just shreds right away. Young people can smell it a mile away; it\u2019s just like, \u201cThis doesn\u2019t work.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt working, actually, is pretty important. You know, what I love about Jesus is that\u2014there was a theoretical aspect to Jesus\u2014alluding to things through symbol, and actions, and His words\u2014but at the end of the day, He just got close to people. Faith was <em>real<\/em>, and messy, and beautiful. It seemed like the people that were most frustrated with it were sort of the religious elites that really, in many ways, wanted the nice categories. Jesus sort of transcends that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, as adults, we just have to, perhaps, realize that young people are really not the problem in our churches that are raising these questions; they actually are our prophets. They\u2019re actually asking the questions that we adults all have, but we\u2019ve learned to not say them; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>What if we were to treat it <em>that<\/em> way? What if the questions that young people brought to us in our churches or our families were actually the questions that everyone\u2019s really asking? I\u2019ll be honest with you\u2014I think, as a parent myself\u2014but also with parents that we\u2019ve interviewed and we\u2019ve worked with\u2014this becomes really scary.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I can remember when my oldest, who\u2019s 33 now?\u2014CJ must have been 12 when he came and said, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I believe this stuff you and Mom have been teaching us, all our life, about God.\u201d I think Ann was right there; and she was like [gasp], and I was like, \u201cYes!\u201d I was like, \u201cHere we go!\u201d I mean, I got sort of excited; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I wasn\u2019t excited. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cWe\u2019re going to step into a journey of him trying to wrestle through\u201d\u2014and he\u2019s young; he\u2019s 12 years old; but man, he\u2019s old enough to understand\u2014\u2018You don\u2019t just easily accept it. I got to go on a journey.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But here\u2019s the thing\u2014when a child comes and says: \u201cI don\u2019t know if I think this is right,\u201d or \u201cI have doubts here,\u201d as a parent\/like Ann, you\u2019re going: \u201cWell, this is life-determinative.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cThey could look at this and go, I reject it.\u2019\u201d As parents, that\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> fear. How can we feel comfortable when a child comes and says, \u201cI\u2019m doubting,\u201d when we go, \u201cThis affects the rest of your life\u201d?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>A couple of things. If you\u2019re in a two-parent household, and a kid asks that question, a lot of times parents have different reactions; right? Right away, there needs to be a conversation between the parents of going: \u201cBefore we take a step further, we have to just figure out how we\u2019re playing this one. Who goes first? I was the heavy last time. What do you think?\u201d It\u2019s just sort of interesting how it affects that relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I think if we think of faith as simply a noun, we probably will freak out\u2014to think that, when a young person says, \u201cI don\u2019t believe in God,\u201d\u2014that somehow they\u2019ve made this deep theological conviction that they\u2019re going to hold to the rest of their lives\u2014rather than saying, \u201cIf we think of it as a verb, that they\u2019re faith-ing. What they\u2019re actually doing is they trust you enough\u2014which is actually a beautiful thing\u2014to voice what they\u2019re really thinking, because they actually want to have a conversation about it. It\u2019s actually not a barrier; it\u2019s a portal to a better conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Great way to put it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>So if we can do that, I think that that allows us to, in many ways, hold the seriousness of the topic, but not freak out, to think that, \u201cIf I don\u2019t get it right\u2014right now\u2014it\u2019s all going to blow up.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You have another verb in there that you talk about in your book, which I want to ask you: \u201cHow does this relate?\u201d What Bob, I think, is going to ask is: \u201cOkay, if they\u2019re asking a faith-ing question, one of your answers is, \u201cYou better be with-ing them.\u201d I know I\u2019m not using proper\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>No, no; with-ing is the hardest one. I don\u2019t know\u2014we just\u2014people are like, \u201cWith-ing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>But the with-ing idea, which is in your title, <em>Growing With<\/em>\u2014when I picked up your book, I\u2019m like, \u201cGrowing with what? Where\u2019s this with?\u201d\u2014now, I understand it; but you have to walk beside them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>When you say teens and young adults need to develop their with-ing skills, what does that mean?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>You know, I think, as parents, we\u2019re thinking about, \u201cWell, how do I parent my kid as they\u2019re getting older?\u201d but we just need to realize, if we use empathy\/if we look the other way, a young person\u2019s negotiating the same thing: \u201cNow, I\u2019m 18. What\u2019s my relationship with my mom and dad? What does that look like? If I go away to college,\u201d or \u201c\u2026work\u201d or \u201c\u2026military\u201d\u2014or something\u2014\u201chow do we be a family, now, that we\u2019re not all under the same roof anymore?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is completely <em>new<\/em> for them. They\u2019re trying to think about: \u201cWhat does it mean to be with my family anymore? Do I be independent? Am I too dependent on them? Can I ask them for things? Should I ask them for advice?\u201d This is happening in the teens\/into the 20s, where they\u2019re constantly trying to negotiate what their relationship is to the family as things are changing. If we give them room for that, we recognize the fact that this is a dialogue that\u2019s constantly happening and is necessary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat happens, a lot of times, when a child comes back home after they\u2019ve been away for awhile, we kind of move back into our roles.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>We have these roles; right? It\u2019s in that moment we have to stop and kind of go: \u201cWait a minute; wait a minute. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Am I perpetuating a younger relationship form of our relationship that actually is getting in the way of us becoming what the relationship needs to be?\u201d This is what with-ing is all about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I remember driving home from visiting my parents, as a young newly-wed couple, and Mary Ann looking at me and saying, \u201cYou were different.\u201d I go, \u201cWhat do you mean, I was different?\u201d She said, \u201cWhen you were back home, you acted different.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Interesting.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I look back on that; and I thought, \u201cWell, of course, I did; because when I was home with my parents, this is how I acted around my parents; and when I\u2019m with you, I act differently.\u201d All of a sudden, it\u2019s like: \u201cOh, yes. We do have roles and patterns we fall into.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe, as parents, have been very intentional with our kids, as they\u2019ve grown up, to say: \u201cThis is a new phase\/a new chapter of your life. We need to make adjustments. We need to be invited in rather than imposing ourselves in this situation.\u201d We\u2019ve gone to our kids and said, \u201cYou get to set the terms about how often we interact or how much you want to communicate,\u201d and \u201cWe\u2019ll be more responsive rather than initiative in those areas.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s hard for us, as parents\u2014because you spend 30 years, saying, \u201cI\u2019m in charge\u201d; right?\u2014to go, \u201cWell, now, you\u2019re in charge of some of this stuff.\u201d But we have to learn how to make those adjustments in order for the family dynamic to work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And even to be cognizant of our conversations\/of things that I <em>used<\/em> to say. I\u2019ve realized, when our kids all come over as they\u2019re adults, I have to take a breath. I hear myself saying things like the word, \u201cshould.\u201d \u201cHey, maybe you should\u2026\u201d or \u201cWhy don\u2019t you\u2026?\u201d or \u201cYou should do this.\u201d I keep catching myself, like: \u201cDon\u2019t say that! That sounds so parental.\u201d It just comes right back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey don\u2019t say anything; but I\u2019m catching myself, thinking: \u201cThat\u2019s alienating them from me,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m becoming so parental, and they\u2019re adults,\u201d and \u201cI need to respond as an adult peer with my kids.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Instead of \u201cshould,\u201d what should we say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>With my daughters in high school, I\u2019d be like, \u201cDid you do your homework?\u201d I realized that, as they moved on, I\u2019d say, \u201cSo, tell me what you\u2019re learning.\u201d Notice the difference. Now, it was no longer they\u2019re accountable to me; but I\u2019m trying to encourage\/I kind of want to know if they\u2019re studying\u2014that\u2019s what I really want to know\u2014but I\u2019m trying to come at it a little bit sideways and come at it in a different sort of way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you mentioned\u2014we try to unpack in the book. We say, basically: \u201cInstead of thinking of this trajectory of teenage into the 20s as sort of adolescent and what a lot of researchers call emerging adulthood, we\u2019ve broken it down into three different categories. We have the learner, which is about the 13-to-18-year-old\/the teenager; and then we have the explorer, which is about 18 to 23; and then we have the focuser, which is 23 to 29\u201d\u2014basically saying, \u201cOur kids are entering these different phases, where they have different needs. A learner\u2019s learning; they\u2019ve never done things before. The explorer is beginning to sort of venture out on their own. There are some things they feel confident about, but there are still some technical things that they\u2019re not ready for. The focuser is really starting to hone in on what they want to be about toward the end of their 20s\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we\u2019re saying with that is that there needs to be a different type of parent for each of those phases, as well; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>So you have a learner that needs a teacher parent. A teacher parent gives them the basics: gives them some steps forward\/sort of leads the way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAn explorer young person needs a guide parent, someone that walks alongside them. In the technical moments, when they don\u2019t know what to do, sometimes the parent says: \u201cLet me take the lead with you here,\u201d and \u201cWe\u2019ll get through this together.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen the focuser child really needs the resource parent. We step back; we have to hold our breath and wait for them to come to us with the significant things that they want to talk about rather than us taking the lead.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, we talked about it as moving from being coaches to consultants.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes, yes; great idea.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So when they were in the teen years, we were coaching. Sometimes, in coaching, you pull them out of the game and you bench them; because you\u2019re the coach. If they really mess up, you can say, \u201cYou\u2019re grounded,\u201d or something like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tConsultant is a whole different category, and you\u2019re not the coach anymore; you\u2019re now the advisor. You kind of wait for them to say, \u201cI need your advice,\u201d or you might step in and say, \u201cYou know, I have something here I could offer.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve seen parents who can\u2019t make the shift.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes; you guys are talking about this idea of consulting. When the signals get crossed, that\u2019s when things go crazy; right? So if I have a focusing young child, but I\u2019m acting like a teacher parent, do you see what\u2019s going on there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>I\u2019m becoming the helicopter\/snowplow\u2014whatever parent\u2014you know what it is. [Laughter] I mean, there are a million names for them now; right?\u2014this overbearing, still-trying-to-control-my-older-child type of parent, sometimes out of great intentions, but it doesn\u2019t allow for the relationship to really grow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr the other way\u2014I could be acting like a resource parent to my learner child, and that\u2019s a distant parent; we\u2019ve just let go and don\u2019t realize that we still play a crucial role in the dialogue\/in the training that\u2019s part of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You alluded to this; but I think it\u2019s so significant; because sometimes, a 12-year-old will look at Mom and Dad and they will give off this vibe: \u201cI don\u2019t need you anymore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cI have this figured out. Thanks for your help, but I\u2019m good.\u201d As parents, we have to be smart enough to go, \u201cYou don\u2019t know what you\u2019re talking about.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I had a conversation with our 15-year-old, our oldest, at one point. I could tell I was bugging him: he\u2019s rolling his eyes; he\u2019s not having conversation. I sat down and I said: \u201cHey, I want to talk to you. I feel like our relationship is strained. I feel like I\u2019m bothering you, and you don\u2019t want to talk to me. Will you just be truthful to me and tell me: \u2018Are there things that I\u2019m doing that are just irritating to you, or things that I could change that would make our relationship better?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Good for you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It was interesting\u2014he said: \u201cYou know, I feel like you\u2019re constantly on me. I feel like you\u2019re telling me when to do my homework. I feel like you\u2019re telling me when to go to bed. I feel like I\u2019m old enough that I should be able to make those decisions for myself.\u201d I sat and I thought: \u201cYou\u2019re right; I agree. Is there anything else?\u201d He had a couple more things that were legitimate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then he said, \u201cWell, there\u2019s just one more thing, Mom.\u201d He said: \u201cI think the rule of not allowing girls to be here with me when you guys are out of town or when you\u2019re not home\u2014I think girls should be able to be at our house alone with me. I think that\u2019s a really dumb rule.\u201d I said, \u201cHmm, that\u2019s interesting.\u201d [Laughter] In my head, I\u2019m thinking, you know, \u201cThat rule\u2019s not changing!\u201d But we just kind of went through of why that rule was in place; so \u201cNo, that rule\u2019s not going to change\u201d; but we had a discussion about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was amazed at how that one discussion brought us <em>closer<\/em> instead of the attitude\/the rolling of the eyes was pulling [us apart]. As a parent, we can feel insecure and pull way out of their lives, feeling like: \u201cThey don\u2019t like me. I should just get out of their lives.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>I love that you did that. I think that sometimes, when our kids critique us, we get defensive and we think, \u201cHow dare you?\u201d But what if we thought of this as the moment when perhaps the relationship is just shifting? You gave space for that to happen. In some ways, we can celebrate that perhaps the relationship is just growing up!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How did you handle it when your daughter came and said, \u201cI\u2019m breaking up with my boyfriend\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Well, I celebrated. [Laughter] Most of the time, my daughters have broken up with the boys. I\u2019ve always worried about when the boys might break up with my daughter. I think, as a dad, I just get sort of crazy about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think, if they can be open to processing things with their parents\/with me or my wife Jen, I think that that\u2019s a good thing, because I think we can talk about more than just the breakup. We can say: \u201cWhat does it mean to honor the person?\u201d \u201cWhat does it mean\/how does this feel for you to not have this relationship anymore that maybe gave you a sense of being wanted or a sense of identity?\u201d\u2014right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think there are moments when we can process those experiences with them. Remember\u2014sometimes, it\u2019s the first time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>I think we have to constantly remember, as parents, that as our kids are going through things for the first time, they feel it in ways that we maybe don\u2019t remember; and they don\u2019t have the tools to necessarily handle that at first.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And that\u2019s where you look at the sign on the wall\/the artwork that you have that you told us about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes, absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that says, \u201cTell me more.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>\u201cTell me more.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In those moments, you invite conversation and dialogue and let them take it. If they say, \u201cI don\u2019t want to talk about it,\u201d do you just say, \u201cOkay\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes; I think there are times when the timing isn\u2019t right. This is the other thing\u2014I think as kids get older, I think I realize more and more that I couldn\u2019t schedule the times that we were going to have the good conversations. It was always in the most inconvenient times.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Eleven thirty at night!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes; it was the worst; I\u2019m like, \u201cSeriously, you want to talk about that right now?\u201d For us, we just realized\u2014at least, for my daughters\u2014they all are different. My oldest: a coffee shop; a good, deep, intellectual book; and maybe we\u2019ll stop and look at each other and chat\u2014that\u2019s the space.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor my middle daughter, it is definitely on a hike. We have to be facing together, forward, and moving in a direction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor my youngest, she just makes me want to pay for everything\u2014[Laughter]\u2014so breakfast, that is it; but we also had some really great car time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>How did you figure that out, Steve?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>You know, I think just trial and error; right? I mean, you\u2019re just like, \u201cWell, that didn\u2019t work,\u201d and recognize the fact that a failure doesn\u2019t mean that we failed. A failure is just that that expression isn\u2019t the way that we sort of connect, so \u201cLet\u2019s find some other ways.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I think this is where, if you have other parents in your life, too\u2014I mean, parent-to-parent\u2014this is where we can sort of process these things together\u2014like: \u201cI tried this thing, and it didn\u2019t work; now, what do I do?\u201d I think too often we think, as parents, \u201cWell, if it didn\u2019t work, then I must be a bad parent. This isn\u2019t working,\u201d rather than hanging in there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI guess, if I could say anything to parents, it would be: \u201cJust hang in there. It\u2019s never too early; it\u2019s never too late.\u201d Kara and I really believe that there\u2019s always a chance to make the relationship with your child better, no matter <em>where<\/em> you\u2019re at and no matter what you\u2019re doing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is more than just Steve being super optimistic, which I\u2019m sometimes accused of, but the research actually suggests that, when a child moves into age 18 and into this emerging adult sort of stage, more times than not, the relationship actually gets better. If you have a good relationship with your teenager, there\u2019s a good chance that it\u2019s going to be better. If you had a rocky relationship with your teenager, here\u2019s the good news: \u201cYou have another shot, so hang in there.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I hear you say, \u201cBe there.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, I\u2019m thinking of the parent, whose child is pulling away, because they should; they\u2019re becoming an adult. We\u2019ve all said it\u2019s easy, at that point, to go, \u201cI\u2019m done.\u201d \u201cNo, be there; with-ing means be there.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s going to be a different way to be there; but pursue, pursue, pursue. Maybe not now as a teacher, but as a guide. But when they need you, be there\u2014at night\/in the morning\u2014whatever\u2014this is your number-one job.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As parents, get some coaching. Get someone, who\u2019s been a few laps around. If you have a couple that\u2019s ten years older than you, and their kids have gone through some of this, just say, \u201cHelp us here,\u201d or get a copy of a book like the one that Steve and Kara have written, called <em>Growing With<\/em>, and read it together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would say, especially if your kids are in the teen years\u2014the thing I love about this is you\u2019re really taking us beyond the teen years to that decade of parenting that a lot of us figured, \u201cWe\u2019re done at 18.\u201d We\u2019re not; we have another decade of adjusting, and learning, and allowing our influence to still be shaping and molding our kids and, as you say in the title of your book, growing <em>with<\/em> them; because it\u2019s not just a one-way street.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re learning and growing at the same time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have copies of the book, <em>Growing With<\/em>, written by Steven Argue and his colleague, Kara Powell. We have it in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; the number to call is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d The title of the book is <em>Growing With<\/em>. Ask for it when you get in touch with us, and we\u2019ll send it out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I hope these kinds of conversations are helpful to you, as parents. As we sit down to talk about all that we\u2019re doing, here at FamilyLife, we\u2019re always asking the question: \u201cIs this going to be helpful? Is this practical? Is this biblical? Is this going to help people where they are in their marriages and in their families?\u201d That\u2019s what guides us, here in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI trust that, over the past 12 months as you\u2019ve listened to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, you\u2019ve found this program encouraging. I hope it\u2019s equipped you; I hope it\u2019s given you some new tools you can use in your marriage or as you raise your children. If that\u2019s the case, can we ask you, here as the new year is approaching, can we ask you to make a yearend contribution to support the ongoing work of this ministry so we can be here for you and for your friends and neighbors in this community in 2020? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe work that we do depends on you. We are listener-supported, so we want to ask you to make a yearend contribution. When you do, that donation is going to be matched, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $2.5 million. We\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry, who have agreed to match every donation we receive this month, up to that total. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll you have to do to donate is go online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and donate by phone. If you\u2019re able to help with a donation of $50 or more, we\u2019d love to send you, as a thank-you gift, a new devotional that our team has put together called <em>The Story of Us<\/em>. It\u2019s our thank-you gift if you can help with a donation of $50 or more, here, at yearend. Be sure to ask for that when you get in touch with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us back again tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about what the local church can do to help work with moms and dads and to help young people stay connected and stay engaged in their faith journey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:28:25"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["26.01M"],"filesize_raw":["27277182"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305619.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305619.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Argue notes that most young adults are embracing a theology that tells them \"God wants me to be happy.\" Argue shows parents the different stages in the young adult journey.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-12-17.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When does a young person move from being a young person to being an adult\/being a grownup? Is there an age for that? How does our relationship with them and their relationship with us change during that time? Here\u2019s Steve Argue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>You know, I think, as parents, we\u2019re thinking about, \u201cWell, how do I parent my kid as they\u2019re getting older?\u201d but we just need to realize, if we use empathy\/if we look the other way, a young person\u2019s negotiating the same thing: \u201cNow, I\u2019m 18. What\u2019s my relationship with my mom and dad? What does that look like? If I go away, how do we be a family, now, that we\u2019re not all under the same roof anymore?\u201d This is completely new for them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we sometimes think they know what to do. It\u2019s all new\u2014like every step along the way is new to them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, December 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. How do we, as moms and dads, stay connected with our young adults, even after they\u2019ve become young adults? We\u2019ll talk with Steve Argue about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. My wife and I, from time to time, will look at each other and say, \u201cAre we becoming those people, who look at the next generation and say, \u2018Get off my lawn\u2019?\u201d You know what I mean? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Are you, Bob?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cYou!\u2014kid!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re a little concerned that those thoughts pop into our head, and we don\u2019t want to be those people. But you know, you do; you watch the next generation emerge\u2014and I\u2019m sure my parents watched my generation emerge\u2014and you just think: \u201cWhat are these kids doing and thinking?!\u201d and \u201cIs this ever going to resolve itself?\u201d and \u201cAren\u2019t they going to burn down cities?\u201d; you know? [Laughter] You worry about where things are going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis week, we\u2019re trying to say, \u201cHow can we, as parents, help our kids move into adult life in a way that enables them to be who they are and interact with the culture, as it is, and yet keep Jesus at the center of all that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I have actually yelled at a kid to get off my lawn, Bob; really.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m sure you have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would be <em>scared<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Wait, wait, wait; no, you haven\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It was all\u2014Ann doesn\u2019t even know this. It was only because I just planted new grass seed. I had the little yellow caution tape around. This kid\u2019s running through; I said, \u201cYou can run on any other part of the yard, just get off that part!\u201d [Laughter] So I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m becoming that guy!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We have Steve Argue joining us this week on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Steve, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>It\u2019s so good to be with you again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I should say Dr. Steven Argue. Dr. Argue is a part of the Fuller Youth Institute; he\u2019s an associate professor at Fuller Seminary. He, along with other colleagues in the FYI\/Fuller Youth Institute, are trying to help all of us, as parents and as youth leaders in churches, know how we can interact with culture, as it is, and kids, as they are, and help faith remain intact and vibrant in those kids\u2019 lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I remember reading research done by a sociologist at Notre Dame, kind of a famous study that Dr. Christian Smith did, where he said what kids are believing today\/what they\u2019re being introduced to today in their churches is moralistic therapeutic deism, which he is said is not authentic Christianity\u2014it\u2019s kind of an aberrant; it\u2019s a caricature of the real thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIs his diagnosis, from decades ago, still accurate today? Is this what kids are learning in churches?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes, I think it depends on the churches. I mean, there\u2019s been some research that\u2019s been done to actually look more specifically at different sort of church congregations, or backgrounds, etc., etc.\u2014but I think there is something to that. For our listeners, Bob, as you know, this idea of moralistic therapeutic deism is basically this gospel, if you will, that\u2019s inadvertently taught in our churches that says, \u201cGod wants you to be good and happy; and to show up when I need you\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>What\u2019s happening a lot of times is\u2014young people have adopted that; but what\u2019s interesting\u2014and Christian Smith, also, says\u2014is that the reason that they\u2019ve adopted it\u2014and you inferred to this\u2014is that that\u2019s what they\u2019ve been taught. It\u2019s actually come from their parents or from their churches. They are living out\u2014quite well, thank you\u2014the teaching that we\u2019ve done with and to them. I think there are some challenges there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But they\u2019re finding, when they get to college and into real life, that: \u201cI don\u2019t believe that\u2019s true\u2014that there is a God, who wants me to be happy, and who wants me to be good; and as long as I\u2019m good, He\u2019ll make me happy,\u201d and \u201cHe\u2019ll show up when I need Him to.\u201d They just go, \u201cThat doesn\u2019t work in real life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes, it doesn\u2019t. I think this is always the challenge with young people, growing up; is that, all of a sudden, they come to this realization that, \u201cIf I do the formula, that doesn\u2019t mean that everything will turn out right for me.\u201d I mean, we all probably\u2014us around this table but, also, the listeners listening to this\u2014have probably thought, \u201cYou know, if I just follow Jesus wholeheartedly, then nothing will go wrong with me or the people that I love.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t think there\u2019s anybody at this table or listening that can ever say, for certain, that that\u2019s been the case; because life is complicated, and things are thrown at us that we never suspected. We live in these moments of disequilibrium\u2014where, all of a sudden, we have to renegotiate our understanding of who God is, and who we are in relation to God, and how this all works in the world. If we have a gospel that actually isn\u2019t true\u2014this moralistic therapeutic deism\u2014it just shreds right away. Young people can smell it a mile away; it\u2019s just like, \u201cThis doesn\u2019t work.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt working, actually, is pretty important. You know, what I love about Jesus is that\u2014there was a theoretical aspect to Jesus\u2014alluding to things through symbol, and actions, and His words\u2014but at the end of the day, He just got close to people. Faith was <em>real<\/em>, and messy, and beautiful. It seemed like the people that were most frustrated with it were sort of the religious elites that really, in many ways, wanted the nice categories. Jesus sort of transcends that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, as adults, we just have to, perhaps, realize that young people are really not the problem in our churches that are raising these questions; they actually are our prophets. They\u2019re actually asking the questions that we adults all have, but we\u2019ve learned to not say them; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>What if we were to treat it <em>that<\/em> way? What if the questions that young people brought to us in our churches or our families were actually the questions that everyone\u2019s really asking? I\u2019ll be honest with you\u2014I think, as a parent myself\u2014but also with parents that we\u2019ve interviewed and we\u2019ve worked with\u2014this becomes really scary.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I can remember when my oldest, who\u2019s 33 now?\u2014CJ must have been 12 when he came and said, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I believe this stuff you and Mom have been teaching us, all our life, about God.\u201d I think Ann was right there; and she was like [gasp], and I was like, \u201cYes!\u201d I was like, \u201cHere we go!\u201d I mean, I got sort of excited; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I wasn\u2019t excited. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cWe\u2019re going to step into a journey of him trying to wrestle through\u201d\u2014and he\u2019s young; he\u2019s 12 years old; but man, he\u2019s old enough to understand\u2014\u2018You don\u2019t just easily accept it. I got to go on a journey.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But here\u2019s the thing\u2014when a child comes and says: \u201cI don\u2019t know if I think this is right,\u201d or \u201cI have doubts here,\u201d as a parent\/like Ann, you\u2019re going: \u201cWell, this is life-determinative.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cThey could look at this and go, I reject it.\u2019\u201d As parents, that\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> fear. How can we feel comfortable when a child comes and says, \u201cI\u2019m doubting,\u201d when we go, \u201cThis affects the rest of your life\u201d?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>A couple of things. If you\u2019re in a two-parent household, and a kid asks that question, a lot of times parents have different reactions; right? Right away, there needs to be a conversation between the parents of going: \u201cBefore we take a step further, we have to just figure out how we\u2019re playing this one. Who goes first? I was the heavy last time. What do you think?\u201d It\u2019s just sort of interesting how it affects that relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I think if we think of faith as simply a noun, we probably will freak out\u2014to think that, when a young person says, \u201cI don\u2019t believe in God,\u201d\u2014that somehow they\u2019ve made this deep theological conviction that they\u2019re going to hold to the rest of their lives\u2014rather than saying, \u201cIf we think of it as a verb, that they\u2019re faith-ing. What they\u2019re actually doing is they trust you enough\u2014which is actually a beautiful thing\u2014to voice what they\u2019re really thinking, because they actually want to have a conversation about it. It\u2019s actually not a barrier; it\u2019s a portal to a better conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Great way to put it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>So if we can do that, I think that that allows us to, in many ways, hold the seriousness of the topic, but not freak out, to think that, \u201cIf I don\u2019t get it right\u2014right now\u2014it\u2019s all going to blow up.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You have another verb in there that you talk about in your book, which I want to ask you: \u201cHow does this relate?\u201d What Bob, I think, is going to ask is: \u201cOkay, if they\u2019re asking a faith-ing question, one of your answers is, \u201cYou better be with-ing them.\u201d I know I\u2019m not using proper\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>No, no; with-ing is the hardest one. I don\u2019t know\u2014we just\u2014people are like, \u201cWith-ing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>But the with-ing idea, which is in your title, <em>Growing With<\/em>\u2014when I picked up your book, I\u2019m like, \u201cGrowing with what? Where\u2019s this with?\u201d\u2014now, I understand it; but you have to walk beside them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>When you say teens and young adults need to develop their with-ing skills, what does that mean?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>You know, I think, as parents, we\u2019re thinking about, \u201cWell, how do I parent my kid as they\u2019re getting older?\u201d but we just need to realize, if we use empathy\/if we look the other way, a young person\u2019s negotiating the same thing: \u201cNow, I\u2019m 18. What\u2019s my relationship with my mom and dad? What does that look like? If I go away to college,\u201d or \u201c\u2026work\u201d or \u201c\u2026military\u201d\u2014or something\u2014\u201chow do we be a family, now, that we\u2019re not all under the same roof anymore?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is completely <em>new<\/em> for them. They\u2019re trying to think about: \u201cWhat does it mean to be with my family anymore? Do I be independent? Am I too dependent on them? Can I ask them for things? Should I ask them for advice?\u201d This is happening in the teens\/into the 20s, where they\u2019re constantly trying to negotiate what their relationship is to the family as things are changing. If we give them room for that, we recognize the fact that this is a dialogue that\u2019s constantly happening and is necessary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat happens, a lot of times, when a child comes back home after they\u2019ve been away for awhile, we kind of move back into our roles.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>We have these roles; right? It\u2019s in that moment we have to stop and kind of go: \u201cWait a minute; wait a minute. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Am I perpetuating a younger relationship form of our relationship that actually is getting in the way of us becoming what the relationship needs to be?\u201d This is what with-ing is all about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I remember driving home from visiting my parents, as a young newly-wed couple, and Mary Ann looking at me and saying, \u201cYou were different.\u201d I go, \u201cWhat do you mean, I was different?\u201d She said, \u201cWhen you were back home, you acted different.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Interesting.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I look back on that; and I thought, \u201cWell, of course, I did; because when I was home with my parents, this is how I acted around my parents; and when I\u2019m with you, I act differently.\u201d All of a sudden, it\u2019s like: \u201cOh, yes. We do have roles and patterns we fall into.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe, as parents, have been very intentional with our kids, as they\u2019ve grown up, to say: \u201cThis is a new phase\/a new chapter of your life. We need to make adjustments. We need to be invited in rather than imposing ourselves in this situation.\u201d We\u2019ve gone to our kids and said, \u201cYou get to set the terms about how often we interact or how much you want to communicate,\u201d and \u201cWe\u2019ll be more responsive rather than initiative in those areas.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s hard for us, as parents\u2014because you spend 30 years, saying, \u201cI\u2019m in charge\u201d; right?\u2014to go, \u201cWell, now, you\u2019re in charge of some of this stuff.\u201d But we have to learn how to make those adjustments in order for the family dynamic to work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And even to be cognizant of our conversations\/of things that I <em>used<\/em> to say. I\u2019ve realized, when our kids all come over as they\u2019re adults, I have to take a breath. I hear myself saying things like the word, \u201cshould.\u201d \u201cHey, maybe you should\u2026\u201d or \u201cWhy don\u2019t you\u2026?\u201d or \u201cYou should do this.\u201d I keep catching myself, like: \u201cDon\u2019t say that! That sounds so parental.\u201d It just comes right back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey don\u2019t say anything; but I\u2019m catching myself, thinking: \u201cThat\u2019s alienating them from me,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m becoming so parental, and they\u2019re adults,\u201d and \u201cI need to respond as an adult peer with my kids.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Instead of \u201cshould,\u201d what should we say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>With my daughters in high school, I\u2019d be like, \u201cDid you do your homework?\u201d I realized that, as they moved on, I\u2019d say, \u201cSo, tell me what you\u2019re learning.\u201d Notice the difference. Now, it was no longer they\u2019re accountable to me; but I\u2019m trying to encourage\/I kind of want to know if they\u2019re studying\u2014that\u2019s what I really want to know\u2014but I\u2019m trying to come at it a little bit sideways and come at it in a different sort of way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you mentioned\u2014we try to unpack in the book. We say, basically: \u201cInstead of thinking of this trajectory of teenage into the 20s as sort of adolescent and what a lot of researchers call emerging adulthood, we\u2019ve broken it down into three different categories. We have the learner, which is about the 13-to-18-year-old\/the teenager; and then we have the explorer, which is about 18 to 23; and then we have the focuser, which is 23 to 29\u201d\u2014basically saying, \u201cOur kids are entering these different phases, where they have different needs. A learner\u2019s learning; they\u2019ve never done things before. The explorer is beginning to sort of venture out on their own. There are some things they feel confident about, but there are still some technical things that they\u2019re not ready for. The focuser is really starting to hone in on what they want to be about toward the end of their 20s\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we\u2019re saying with that is that there needs to be a different type of parent for each of those phases, as well; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>So you have a learner that needs a teacher parent. A teacher parent gives them the basics: gives them some steps forward\/sort of leads the way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAn explorer young person needs a guide parent, someone that walks alongside them. In the technical moments, when they don\u2019t know what to do, sometimes the parent says: \u201cLet me take the lead with you here,\u201d and \u201cWe\u2019ll get through this together.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen the focuser child really needs the resource parent. We step back; we have to hold our breath and wait for them to come to us with the significant things that they want to talk about rather than us taking the lead.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, we talked about it as moving from being coaches to consultants.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes, yes; great idea.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So when they were in the teen years, we were coaching. Sometimes, in coaching, you pull them out of the game and you bench them; because you\u2019re the coach. If they really mess up, you can say, \u201cYou\u2019re grounded,\u201d or something like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tConsultant is a whole different category, and you\u2019re not the coach anymore; you\u2019re now the advisor. You kind of wait for them to say, \u201cI need your advice,\u201d or you might step in and say, \u201cYou know, I have something here I could offer.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve seen parents who can\u2019t make the shift.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes; you guys are talking about this idea of consulting. When the signals get crossed, that\u2019s when things go crazy; right? So if I have a focusing young child, but I\u2019m acting like a teacher parent, do you see what\u2019s going on there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>I\u2019m becoming the helicopter\/snowplow\u2014whatever parent\u2014you know what it is. [Laughter] I mean, there are a million names for them now; right?\u2014this overbearing, still-trying-to-control-my-older-child type of parent, sometimes out of great intentions, but it doesn\u2019t allow for the relationship to really grow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr the other way\u2014I could be acting like a resource parent to my learner child, and that\u2019s a distant parent; we\u2019ve just let go and don\u2019t realize that we still play a crucial role in the dialogue\/in the training that\u2019s part of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You alluded to this; but I think it\u2019s so significant; because sometimes, a 12-year-old will look at Mom and Dad and they will give off this vibe: \u201cI don\u2019t need you anymore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cI have this figured out. Thanks for your help, but I\u2019m good.\u201d As parents, we have to be smart enough to go, \u201cYou don\u2019t know what you\u2019re talking about.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I had a conversation with our 15-year-old, our oldest, at one point. I could tell I was bugging him: he\u2019s rolling his eyes; he\u2019s not having conversation. I sat down and I said: \u201cHey, I want to talk to you. I feel like our relationship is strained. I feel like I\u2019m bothering you, and you don\u2019t want to talk to me. Will you just be truthful to me and tell me: \u2018Are there things that I\u2019m doing that are just irritating to you, or things that I could change that would make our relationship better?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Good for you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It was interesting\u2014he said: \u201cYou know, I feel like you\u2019re constantly on me. I feel like you\u2019re telling me when to do my homework. I feel like you\u2019re telling me when to go to bed. I feel like I\u2019m old enough that I should be able to make those decisions for myself.\u201d I sat and I thought: \u201cYou\u2019re right; I agree. Is there anything else?\u201d He had a couple more things that were legitimate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then he said, \u201cWell, there\u2019s just one more thing, Mom.\u201d He said: \u201cI think the rule of not allowing girls to be here with me when you guys are out of town or when you\u2019re not home\u2014I think girls should be able to be at our house alone with me. I think that\u2019s a really dumb rule.\u201d I said, \u201cHmm, that\u2019s interesting.\u201d [Laughter] In my head, I\u2019m thinking, you know, \u201cThat rule\u2019s not changing!\u201d But we just kind of went through of why that rule was in place; so \u201cNo, that rule\u2019s not going to change\u201d; but we had a discussion about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was amazed at how that one discussion brought us <em>closer<\/em> instead of the attitude\/the rolling of the eyes was pulling [us apart]. As a parent, we can feel insecure and pull way out of their lives, feeling like: \u201cThey don\u2019t like me. I should just get out of their lives.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>I love that you did that. I think that sometimes, when our kids critique us, we get defensive and we think, \u201cHow dare you?\u201d But what if we thought of this as the moment when perhaps the relationship is just shifting? You gave space for that to happen. In some ways, we can celebrate that perhaps the relationship is just growing up!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How did you handle it when your daughter came and said, \u201cI\u2019m breaking up with my boyfriend\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Well, I celebrated. [Laughter] Most of the time, my daughters have broken up with the boys. I\u2019ve always worried about when the boys might break up with my daughter. I think, as a dad, I just get sort of crazy about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think, if they can be open to processing things with their parents\/with me or my wife Jen, I think that that\u2019s a good thing, because I think we can talk about more than just the breakup. We can say: \u201cWhat does it mean to honor the person?\u201d \u201cWhat does it mean\/how does this feel for you to not have this relationship anymore that maybe gave you a sense of being wanted or a sense of identity?\u201d\u2014right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think there are moments when we can process those experiences with them. Remember\u2014sometimes, it\u2019s the first time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>I think we have to constantly remember, as parents, that as our kids are going through things for the first time, they feel it in ways that we maybe don\u2019t remember; and they don\u2019t have the tools to necessarily handle that at first.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And that\u2019s where you look at the sign on the wall\/the artwork that you have that you told us about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes, absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that says, \u201cTell me more.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>\u201cTell me more.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In those moments, you invite conversation and dialogue and let them take it. If they say, \u201cI don\u2019t want to talk about it,\u201d do you just say, \u201cOkay\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes; I think there are times when the timing isn\u2019t right. This is the other thing\u2014I think as kids get older, I think I realize more and more that I couldn\u2019t schedule the times that we were going to have the good conversations. It was always in the most inconvenient times.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Eleven thirty at night!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes; it was the worst; I\u2019m like, \u201cSeriously, you want to talk about that right now?\u201d For us, we just realized\u2014at least, for my daughters\u2014they all are different. My oldest: a coffee shop; a good, deep, intellectual book; and maybe we\u2019ll stop and look at each other and chat\u2014that\u2019s the space.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor my middle daughter, it is definitely on a hike. We have to be facing together, forward, and moving in a direction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor my youngest, she just makes me want to pay for everything\u2014[Laughter]\u2014so breakfast, that is it; but we also had some really great car time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>How did you figure that out, Steve?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>You know, I think just trial and error; right? I mean, you\u2019re just like, \u201cWell, that didn\u2019t work,\u201d and recognize the fact that a failure doesn\u2019t mean that we failed. A failure is just that that expression isn\u2019t the way that we sort of connect, so \u201cLet\u2019s find some other ways.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I think this is where, if you have other parents in your life, too\u2014I mean, parent-to-parent\u2014this is where we can sort of process these things together\u2014like: \u201cI tried this thing, and it didn\u2019t work; now, what do I do?\u201d I think too often we think, as parents, \u201cWell, if it didn\u2019t work, then I must be a bad parent. This isn\u2019t working,\u201d rather than hanging in there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI guess, if I could say anything to parents, it would be: \u201cJust hang in there. It\u2019s never too early; it\u2019s never too late.\u201d Kara and I really believe that there\u2019s always a chance to make the relationship with your child better, no matter <em>where<\/em> you\u2019re at and no matter what you\u2019re doing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is more than just Steve being super optimistic, which I\u2019m sometimes accused of, but the research actually suggests that, when a child moves into age 18 and into this emerging adult sort of stage, more times than not, the relationship actually gets better. If you have a good relationship with your teenager, there\u2019s a good chance that it\u2019s going to be better. If you had a rocky relationship with your teenager, here\u2019s the good news: \u201cYou have another shot, so hang in there.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I hear you say, \u201cBe there.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, I\u2019m thinking of the parent, whose child is pulling away, because they should; they\u2019re becoming an adult. We\u2019ve all said it\u2019s easy, at that point, to go, \u201cI\u2019m done.\u201d \u201cNo, be there; with-ing means be there.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s going to be a different way to be there; but pursue, pursue, pursue. Maybe not now as a teacher, but as a guide. But when they need you, be there\u2014at night\/in the morning\u2014whatever\u2014this is your number-one job.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As parents, get some coaching. Get someone, who\u2019s been a few laps around. If you have a couple that\u2019s ten years older than you, and their kids have gone through some of this, just say, \u201cHelp us here,\u201d or get a copy of a book like the one that Steve and Kara have written, called <em>Growing With<\/em>, and read it together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would say, especially if your kids are in the teen years\u2014the thing I love about this is you\u2019re really taking us beyond the teen years to that decade of parenting that a lot of us figured, \u201cWe\u2019re done at 18.\u201d We\u2019re not; we have another decade of adjusting, and learning, and allowing our influence to still be shaping and molding our kids and, as you say in the title of your book, growing <em>with<\/em> them; because it\u2019s not just a one-way street.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re learning and growing at the same time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have copies of the book, <em>Growing With<\/em>, written by Steven Argue and his colleague, Kara Powell. We have it in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; the number to call is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d The title of the book is <em>Growing With<\/em>. Ask for it when you get in touch with us, and we\u2019ll send it out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I hope these kinds of conversations are helpful to you, as parents. As we sit down to talk about all that we\u2019re doing, here at FamilyLife, we\u2019re always asking the question: \u201cIs this going to be helpful? Is this practical? Is this biblical? Is this going to help people where they are in their marriages and in their families?\u201d That\u2019s what guides us, here in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI trust that, over the past 12 months as you\u2019ve listened to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, you\u2019ve found this program encouraging. I hope it\u2019s equipped you; I hope it\u2019s given you some new tools you can use in your marriage or as you raise your children. If that\u2019s the case, can we ask you, here as the new year is approaching, can we ask you to make a yearend contribution to support the ongoing work of this ministry so we can be here for you and for your friends and neighbors in this community in 2020? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe work that we do depends on you. We are listener-supported, so we want to ask you to make a yearend contribution. When you do, that donation is going to be matched, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $2.5 million. We\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry, who have agreed to match every donation we receive this month, up to that total. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll you have to do to donate is go online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and donate by phone. If you\u2019re able to help with a donation of $50 or more, we\u2019d love to send you, as a thank-you gift, a new devotional that our team has put together called <em>The Story of Us<\/em>. It\u2019s our thank-you gift if you can help with a donation of $50 or more, here, at yearend. Be sure to ask for that when you get in touch with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us back again tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about what the local church can do to help work with moms and dads and to help young people stay connected and stay engaged in their faith journey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/305619","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305619"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305619"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305619"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305619"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=305619"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=305619"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=305619"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}