{"id":305523,"date":"2019-11-14T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2019-11-14T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/a-father-and-son-connection\/"},"modified":"2019-11-14T06:00:04","modified_gmt":"2019-11-14T11:00:04","slug":"a-father-and-son-connection","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-father-and-son-connection\/","title":{"rendered":"A Father and Son Connection"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>As a youth pastor, Joel Fitzpatrick has seen countless boys struggle with what it means to have a life shaped by the gospel. Fitzpatrick encourages fathers to dive into deep conversations with their sons.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-11-14.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:47","filesize":"24.53M","filesize_raw":"25720038","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2837,2835,2870],"tags":[4946],"podcast_series":[8316],"cwp_profile":[9514],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305523","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-fathers","category-raising-boys","category-tweens","tag-fatherhood","podcast_series-between-us-guys","cwp_profile-joel-fitzpatrick","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305523\/a-father-and-son-connection","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305523\/a-father-and-son-connection","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"jfuqFlMwjp\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-father-and-son-connection\/\">A Father and Son Connection<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-father-and-son-connection\/embed\/#?secret=jfuqFlMwjp\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;A Father and Son Connection&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"jfuqFlMwjp\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-11-14.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-11-14.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, November 14<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. As a dad, if you need a little courage\/a little confidence\u2014maybe some coaching\u2014on how you can better connect with your teenage or preteen son, we\u2019re going to talk about that today with Joel Fitzpatrick. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. When my boys were\u2014I don\u2019t know; seven or eight years old, I think\u2014I would, with each of them, say, \u201cHere is what we\u2019re going to do\u2026\u201d I went and bought them\u2014I may have shared this with you\u2014I bought them a notebook and a new pen. I said, \u201cI want you to open up to Page 1 in your notebook; I want you to write, \u2018Manhood Training.\u2019 Every Saturday morning that I\u2019m in town, we\u2019re going to go out for biscuits at Hardee\u2019s<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; and we\u2019re going to have manhood training.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Are biscuits part of manhood training? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I thought it was; yes. [Laughter] Biscuits and gravy\u2014you\u2019ve got to have that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s manhood training right there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s called <em>southern<\/em> manhood training. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> All I knew, as a dad, was\u2014I needed to have some conversations with my sons. I don\u2019t know that I knew what those conversations needed to be; but I knew I needed to help them understand: \u201cGod made you a boy. He made you to be a man. You need to understand that, to embrace it, to grow into it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere I am, wishing that I could rewind the clock, and\u2014because there is a book that\u2019s just come out called <em>Between Us Guys: Life-Changing Conversations for Dads and Sons<\/em> by Joel Fitzpatrick. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Where was that book 30 years ago? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Exactly! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Joel wasn\u2019t old enough to write that book back then. [Laughter] Joel joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. How old were you 30 years ago? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> I would have been 10. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We could have taken you out for manhood training. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; totally. By my size, I fully participated in the biscuits and gravy. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Joel is a pastor; he is an author. He has served in a number of churches in Southern California. He\u2019s written books with his\/you wrote a book with your sister\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014called <em>Mom, Dad\u2026What\u2019s Sex?<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve talked about that, here, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Your mom, Elyse Fitzpatrick, is also an author, who has been with us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. The Fitzpatrick family\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014they are authors. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014they are part of the <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> family. We\u2019re glad to have you here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Thanks so much for having me on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This book\u2014is this something you wrote because you\u2019ve got boys growing up and you needed to have these conversations with your sons? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; actually, this book came out of two different places. One was my work with youth at the church that I was at\u2014just realizing that boys really struggled with what it meant to be a boy. They struggled with the different influences that were coming in on their lives\u2014whether it was through video games, or through movies, or through the TV, internet\u2014all those different things\u2014through their own friendships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen my own conversations with my son, just trying to help him set up what it means to be a man, who lives his life shaped by the gospel\/shaped by who Jesus is and what He\u2019s done for him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wrote this book because, quite frankly, when I was growing up, I wish that my dad would have taken me through conversations like this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; I think all of us can look back with some sense of deficit that there were things we could have been better equipped for\/better trained for; but I love the fact that in the\u2014what are there?\u201418 conversations you\u2019ve got here? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> \u201414. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201414 conversations. It\u2019s everything from family, to love, to generosity, to money, to girls, to heaven\u2014defending others\u2014all kinds of subjects. You followed the same pattern\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014in each of these conversations. Just explain what this pattern is and why you picked that pattern. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; I picked this pattern because I think it\u2019s the pattern of the Bible. I mean, I think it\u2019s essentially the gospel story that\u2019s laid out in the Bible. I want to be able to show my son, and boys around the world, how they fit into that story. What that is\u2014is creation, fall, redemption, and then our lives lived in love for one another as we anticipate the consummation\/as we anticipate heaven. We were created to be something. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, you take a subject like money\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014you would say: \u201cGod has a design for money. He has a creation plan for that\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; money is meant to be used in a certain way. Then we look at, not only how we were created to be generous with our money, but how we are to use our money to glorify God\/to serve the people around us. We were created in that way, but then we see how Adam and Eve\u2014in the fall section of each of the chapters\u2014we see how they actually <em>grasped<\/em> for power. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen we move on, and we look at how Jesus then came and lived the life that we <em>never<\/em> could live; right? Jesus was generous; in fact, Jesus\u2014when He had the power to come and take over and run things\u2014Jesus laid His power aside. He didn\u2019t count equality with God a thing to be grasped; but He set it aside for a time and then became one of us and lived in generosity\u2014generosity to the point of dying on the cross for us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, now, how does that motivate me to live?\u2014knowing that Jesus\u2019 righteousness is my own. It actually frees me, because I don\u2019t have to worry about God providing for me; in fact, God tells me: \u201cDon\u2019t be anxious about anything. Look at the lilies. Look at the flowers of the field. They are beautiful. They grow. I clothe them. Won\u2019t I do the same for <em>you<\/em>?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou see, that\u2019s the sort of pattern of life, where I think so often what we do, as parents, is\u2014we do really good at the creation aspect; right?\u2014\u201cYou were created to be this.\u201d We do really good at the fall aspect; right?\u2014\u201cYou\u2014you, little sinner. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We know that conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cyou messed this up again. You used money for your own ends\u201d; right? We do really good at those parts. Then, where I noticed in my own parenting, and in the parenting of the folks around me, we are all wrestling with: \u201cWell, how does the gospel change this?\u201d and \u201cHow does it change it for our kids?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s where I think that this book really has\u2014it seems, to me, to have struck a chord in that it equips dads who, quite frankly\u2014most dads work a long week. They come home; they are exhausted after work; they\u2019ve been doing things all day long\u2014and most dads just don\u2019t have the energy to put into figuring out how to have a gospel conversation with their son. I think that\u2019s where this book really comes in\u2014is like just to help and to guide dads\u2014to say, \u201cHey, think this way\u2026\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s a tool. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know every dad in my church is saying: \u201cJust tell me what to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI mean, don\u2019t give me\u2026\u201d\u2014and you just did. You just walked us through a discussion on money with your son\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in the last five minutes. Any dad can do it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhere were you 17 years ago?\u201d I mean, you talk about clueless. Here is what I did\u2014and I\u2019m a speaker for FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, so I should know better\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but I wanted to have, at one point, a rite of passage\u2014and actually several. The first one with my sons\u2014I had three sons\u2014was around 12\/13. We had discussions; but I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m going to take them away.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere is the funny thing\u2014I get to my third son\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014Cody is his name. He says, \u201cDad, you\u2019re not going to do that lame thing you did with CJ and Austin,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what he says!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> That\u2019s so perfect. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> At this point, I thought those trips were <em>life-changing<\/em>; you know? It was like, \u201cWhat?!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; total fail. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which was interesting; because he came to me first and said, \u201cMom, don\u2019t let him do that to me.\u201d [Laughter] I said, \u201cYou need to go talk to Dad about it.\u201d <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, he tells me this. I\u2019m like\u2014I\u2019m not going to mention what I did\u2014but I used a cassette tape series, by a well-known author, that helps you do this; you know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> They were a little dated at the time, probably. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They were dated, but it was great stuff. It just got you into discussions on important topics for a young boy, 13. So, for my last one, we were actually going to drive to Pittsburgh and go to the AFC Championship game between\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Oh, sweet! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014the Patriots and the Steelers. I had a buddy that was a Lions player\u2014now a Steelers guy\u2014got me tickets\/the whole thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re driving there, and I hand Cody a little sheet of paper; we\u2019re getting ready to drive. He goes, \u201cWhat\u2019s this, Dad?\u201d I go, \u201cSee all those topics,\u201d\u2014I had probably 25 topics\u2014he goes, \u201cYes.\u201d \u201cWe\u2019re going to talk about every one of those on this trip. You pick any one you want, any order you want; but we\u2019re covering all 25.\u201d That\u2019s what we did; we just sort of had a discussion. It actually went really well; because we had six hours there, six hours back\u2014twelve hours. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut <em>you\u2019ve<\/em> written it in a way I had <em>never<\/em> thought through. What a great concept to say: \u201cGod\u2019s idea of creation; how we\u2019ve missed it; now, how do we recover?\u201d So, way to go! That\u2019s a very helpful tool. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here\u2019s the thing about that format. It\u2019s easy for us, as parents, to say: \u201cHere\u2019s the right way to do it. Now, do it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s a formula for disaster; because you\u2019ll try it\u2014and if it goes well\u2014you\u2019ll pat yourself on the back and go, \u201cLook at me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If it goes poorly, you\u2019ll go, \u201cI can\u2019t do this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, you\u2019re either going to go toward self-righteousness\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014or you\u2019re going to go toward failure and sin; but what you\u2019ve done is say, \u201cLet\u2019s just expect that we\u2019re not going to be able to implement this because we\u2019re flawed.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When that happens, we shouldn\u2019t look and say, \u201cI guess we don\u2019t know.\u201d \u201cWell, we\u2019re all in the same boat! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cNow, how does the gospel speak to that? And out of understanding how the gospel speaks to it, now, it\u2019s not just behavior modification; but now, it\u2019s heart change that leads to a different life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right; and the thing is\u2014I think that parents come into these conversations, thinking they need to nail it on the first conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> I know I fell into this trap, where I would have a conversation with my son, and then I would think to myself: \u201cOh, man, I totally blew it. I didn\u2019t cover this and that and the other thing.\u201d Having a guide like this\u2014I found in my own life and in my friends\u2019 lives, who have read this\u2014really opens them up to say, \u201cMan, I can have multiple conversations on this one topic.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat this book, actually, is giving me is less of a script and more of like just a way of being so that I can live this, and I can talk about it, and we can have multiple conversations over our lifetime. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And what you\u2019ve done is you\u2019ve opened the door to conversations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That right, there, can be awkward with a dad and son, even to know how to get into it,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Totally. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014what to say. You\u2019ve also geared it to a certain age group. Why that?\u2014why that age group? How old are the boys that you\u2019re thinking? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> So, yes; this book is written for the age group of boys between about five and eleven. The reason is because an old friend of mine told me that, in that age, kids are like wet cement. You pour them in; and if you don\u2019t put up forms, they just kind of go wherever they want to go; then the cement dries. Then you\u2019ve got to bring in the jackhammer to break it up; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if you help your kids in that era\/in that time of their lives\u2014and you help them set the forms on their lives so that their life is shaped by the gospel\u2014then, when you pour the cement in, the cement is shaped to be like Jesus. It\u2019s shaped to be molded and conformed to what the gospel actually says about who we are, as human beings. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tReally, as dads, we have this <em>amazing<\/em> opportunity with our sons to be able to speak into the midst of their experience and help them see where they are, where is God, and who God is making them to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of the things I love about the book is it\u2019s a conversation\u2014it\u2019s just a conversation\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cHave these conversations; here are 14 topics to talk about with your sons.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Each conversation, I think, is six or eight pages long; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, it\u2019s achievable over biscuits and gravy; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Oh, totally. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But I know buddies of mine that have just\u2014they\u2019ve got stuck; they\u2019re afraid. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>They: \u201cI want to,\u201d \u201cI should,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m working a lot of hours,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m tired,\u201d\u2014they don\u2019t do it. What do you say to that dad? How do you get him started? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; first of all, I would say to the dads out there, who struggle with this particular issue. Number one, I totally identify with you. I\u2019m a dad, who works construction. That means that my day starts at about six o\u2019clock in the morning, and it ends at about six o\u2019clock at night\u2014that\u2019s every day. I also preach on the weekends, write books\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Dude! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> \u2014I get what it means to be busy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow! I guess so. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> I get it. The reality is, dads\u2014first of all, it\u2019s never too late to start talking to your sons, whether your son is six, or your son is sixteen, or your son is twenty-six. It\u2019s never too late to start talking to your sons. If you struggle in this area, then I would just encourage you, dad: \u201cTake your son out for ice cream. Ask him how his day went\u2014that\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> lead-in question. Show your son that you\u2019re there to hear your son talk more than you are there to talk to your son, because you want this to be a dialogue.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDialogues are scary, I think, for dads; because a lot of times, we don\u2019t know how to respond in the right way. If you\u2019re a dad like me, you come home from work and you\u2019re tired. Your son starts talking about video games, and Fortnite, and the next thing; and it\u2019s like my eyes gloss over, and I\u2019ve lost track; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the reality is that, as dads, we have this <em>amazing<\/em> opportunity to lock in with our sons. For the dad who is afraid\/for the dad who thinks he\u2019s blown it, man, there is grace for you. There is gospel for you too, Dad. The beauty is\u2014is that God knew you weren\u2019t going to be the dad who you think you should be; and yet, God is our perfect Father, and He\u2019s that for us because of the work of Jesus. That gives you the ability to just step into\u2014just lean into the awkward\/just move right into that space and tell your son: \u201cSon, we haven\u2019t done this before. This may get awkward; this may get weird; but I love you, and I think this is important. So, let\u2019s just do this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDon\u2019t think that you need to have six hours of conversations\u2014that may be the right thing to do\u2014but it may be right for you to just take your son out for an ice cream. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, there was another one\u2014so, I\u2019m thinking: \u201cWell, my wife has done this. Mom has done this with Johnny. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cIt went well, and I know they have a great relationship. Do I really, as a dad\u2014do I need to step in as well?\u201d How important is it for dad to have these conversations with their son? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; as dads, I think we are two things. We\u2014in many ways, and this isn\u2019t meant to scare you, dads; but this is just kind of the reality of the situation. As a dad, in many ways, your son will see God\/His Father through the lens of your parenting. So dads, you have a very vital role in that. That\u2019s scary on the one hand because, as dads, we blow it; right? We blow it big time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn the other hand, though, that\u2019s a perfect way for you to lean into this story: \u201cAs a dad, I was created to be something so much more than what I am. Yet, sin, so often, rules in my life; it reigns in me, and I hate it. But I know that Jesus connected me to my perfect Father. Jesus loves me and embraces me, and now I want to do that with you, son.\u201d So, it\u2019s number one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber two: Dads, you can move into this area\u2014and you can do it with confidence\u2014because you\u2019re going to bring a perspective on masculinity that your wife just doesn\u2019t have. Your wife doesn\u2019t know what it means to be a man. She doesn\u2019t know our struggles the same way that <em>we<\/em> do. Your son having these conversations with your wife is great. I mean, believe me, that\u2019s something you need to promote\/you need to support. My wife does that with me\u2014she supports my conversations with our daughter. But the reality is that: \u201cDads, you bring a perspective into masculinity; you help set your son up to know what it is to live by the gospel, as a man. You have that perspective that your wife doesn\u2019t have; you have that understanding that she doesn\u2019t have.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and I know that I also, as I reflect back on\u2014you know, I have three grown sons and grandkids. I remember thinking two things: \u201cOne, I want to change a legacy. My dad never had conversations with me\u201d\u2014he wasn\u2019t there\/divorced home\u2014\u201cand I get to change\u201d\u2014but the passive part of me is like\u2014\u201ctomorrow.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cFriday\u201d; you know?\u2014another day will go by. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; totally. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The other thought was\u2014and Bob and I know; and Ann knows\u2014and you\u2019re going to discover\u2014you\u2019re going to blink, and they are gone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I heard that from older dads\u2014tell me that. In the middle of that, I\u2019m like: \u201cOh, no, they are never leaving. Every day is exhausting. There is snot; there are diapers.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; totally. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Then you get here; and you\u2019re like, \u201cWhere did it go?!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll never forget\u2014I was sitting in the Silverdome\/Pontiac Silverdome at one of the Promise Keepers\u2014had to be the \u201880s; is that when Promise Keepers was? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014early \u201890s; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> A local pastor from Detroit gets up. I\u2019m in the very other end zone, with probably 70,000 men; and his name was Joe Stowell\/Dr. Joe Stowell. He was the pastor of Highland Park Baptist at the time and ended up at Moody as President. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe told this story\u2014I\u2019ve never forgotten it. It was this simple\u2014he goes: \u201cI really care about my front yard,\u201d\u2014this sounds ridiculous\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t hire anybody; I do it.\u201d He goes, \u201cSounds crazy; but I wanted my front yard to be the nicest yard in the neighborhood, and it <em>was<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He said, \u201cI had three sons.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m sitting there, going, \u201cWell, I have three sons\u201d; and they were little at the time. I\u2019m not even sure my third was born yet; but I\u2019m leaning up, like, \u201cOh, here is a father, ahead of me, telling a story about three sons.\u201d He says: \u201cMy youngest son loved basketball, and he wanted me to put a basketball pole in the front drive way. I said, \u2018No; it\u2019s going to ruin the <em>yard<\/em>. I don\u2019t want a basketball pole.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He said, \u201cFinally, I gave in and said, \u2018Okay; we\u2019ll put up the basketball pole.\u2019\u201d He said, \u201cEvery time, I pulled down my street, I would see that thing, like, \u2018The yard would look so much better without this hoop sitting there.\u2019 Every day, my son would say, \u2018Dad, let\u2019s shoot hoops\u2019; and every day, I\u2019d say, \u2018I\u2019ve got to work on the yard.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe goes\u2014I will never forget\u2014\u201cI had to do a funeral for a 12-year-old boy in my church that passed.\u201d He said, \u201cI\u2019m driving home after that funeral, and I see my front yard.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He looks at it, and he goes: \u201cWhat am I doing? It\u2019s the nicest yard on the street; yes; and I\u2019m missing this moment.\u201d He says: \u201cI walk in the house; I go upstairs. My son is doing homework. I open his door. I go, \u2018Hey, want to shoot hoops?\u2019 He goes, \u2018No, no, Dad. I\u2019ve got a lot of homework.\u2019\u201d I\u2019ll never forget\u2014Joe said, \u201cI shut the door and walked down the hall; and I said: \u2018I messed it! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201c\u2019There was a season of his life; I missed it for a <em>yard<\/em>.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That story stuck. I\u2019m a young dad; I\u2019m like: \u201cDon\u2019t want to miss it. I want to have these conversations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cSeize the moment and the day.\u201d Now, we know; those days are <em>gone<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You either grab them or you don\u2019t. You\u2019ve written a tool that says: \u201cDads, I\u2019ll help you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cHere you go. Use this, and have these conversations while you can.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here is the thing\u2014now, we\u2019ve taken the excuse of \u201cI don\u2019t know what to say,\u201d away from dad\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014right? So, the dad, is thinking, \u201cWell, I\u2019d do it; I just don\u2019t know what to say,\u201d\u2014\u201cWe\u2019ll give you what to say for the next 14 meetings with your son. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cIt\u2019s mapped out for you; you can walk through it. Joel has given you the theme; so if you\u2019re going to have a talk with him about a subject like love: \u2018Well, what does the Bible say about this?\u2019\u2014there are suggested activities; there are discussion questions as you go through this\u2014Bible verses you can look at; and then: \u2018How do we respond to it?\u2019 It\u2019s simple; we\u2019ve got the script. Now, all you have to do is carve out the time and be intentional with your son.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave, your point is exactly right\u2014there is a window for this; don\u2019t let the window close. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Get a copy of Joel\u2019s book, <em>Between Us Guys: Life-Changing Conversations for Dads and Sons<\/em>. We\u2019ve got the book available; you can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY. Once again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. The book is called <em>Between Us Guys<\/em>. Order online or call to order at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, one of the things we are committed to, here, at FamilyLife is the goal of helping you, as parents, pass on a legacy of spiritual vitality to your children\/to the next generation. We believe that this is what God has made us for, as moms and dads. It\u2019s our number-one priority. Here at FamilyLife\u2014along with helping you in your marriage and understanding your roles in marriage; helping you walk closely with God\u2014we want to make sure we\u2019re coaching you on how you can make a spiritual handoff to your kids and point them in the right direction, spiritually. <br><br>We\u2019re grateful for those of you who are, not just listeners to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, but those of you who make this ministry possible\u00a0 for your neighbors, for other people in your city, for people all around the world, who are connecting with FamilyLife online. When you support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, you help extend the reach of this ministry through this program, through our website, through our resources, and our events. You\u2019re helping us reach more people more often with practical biblical help and hope for their marriage and for their family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re a longtime listener and you\u2019ve never made a donation, or if you\u2019ve been listening and thought about becoming a monthly Legacy Partner to support this ministry on an ongoing basis, can we ask you to do that today? Go to FamilyLifeToday.com; make a donation online; or call to donate at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d We look forward to hearing from you, and we appreciate your partnership with us in this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us back, again, tomorrow. Joel Fitzpatrick will be here again as we continue talking about dads and sons and how they can connect, and how dads can be intentional about discipling their sons.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:47"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.53M"],"filesize_raw":["25720038"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305523.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305523.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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a youth pastor, Joel Fitzpatrick has seen countless boys struggle with what it means to have a life shaped by the gospel. Fitzpatrick encourages fathers to dive into deep conversations with their sons.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-11-14.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, November 14<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. As a dad, if you need a little courage\/a little confidence\u2014maybe some coaching\u2014on how you can better connect with your teenage or preteen son, we\u2019re going to talk about that today with Joel Fitzpatrick. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. When my boys were\u2014I don\u2019t know; seven or eight years old, I think\u2014I would, with each of them, say, \u201cHere is what we\u2019re going to do\u2026\u201d I went and bought them\u2014I may have shared this with you\u2014I bought them a notebook and a new pen. I said, \u201cI want you to open up to Page 1 in your notebook; I want you to write, \u2018Manhood Training.\u2019 Every Saturday morning that I\u2019m in town, we\u2019re going to go out for biscuits at Hardee\u2019s<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; and we\u2019re going to have manhood training.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Are biscuits part of manhood training? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I thought it was; yes. [Laughter] Biscuits and gravy\u2014you\u2019ve got to have that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s manhood training right there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s called <em>southern<\/em> manhood training. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> All I knew, as a dad, was\u2014I needed to have some conversations with my sons. I don\u2019t know that I knew what those conversations needed to be; but I knew I needed to help them understand: \u201cGod made you a boy. He made you to be a man. You need to understand that, to embrace it, to grow into it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere I am, wishing that I could rewind the clock, and\u2014because there is a book that\u2019s just come out called <em>Between Us Guys: Life-Changing Conversations for Dads and Sons<\/em> by Joel Fitzpatrick. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Where was that book 30 years ago? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Exactly! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Joel wasn\u2019t old enough to write that book back then. [Laughter] Joel joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. How old were you 30 years ago? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> I would have been 10. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We could have taken you out for manhood training. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; totally. By my size, I fully participated in the biscuits and gravy. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Joel is a pastor; he is an author. He has served in a number of churches in Southern California. He\u2019s written books with his\/you wrote a book with your sister\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014called <em>Mom, Dad\u2026What\u2019s Sex?<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve talked about that, here, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Your mom, Elyse Fitzpatrick, is also an author, who has been with us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. The Fitzpatrick family\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014they are authors. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014they are part of the <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> family. We\u2019re glad to have you here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Thanks so much for having me on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This book\u2014is this something you wrote because you\u2019ve got boys growing up and you needed to have these conversations with your sons? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; actually, this book came out of two different places. One was my work with youth at the church that I was at\u2014just realizing that boys really struggled with what it meant to be a boy. They struggled with the different influences that were coming in on their lives\u2014whether it was through video games, or through movies, or through the TV, internet\u2014all those different things\u2014through their own friendships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen my own conversations with my son, just trying to help him set up what it means to be a man, who lives his life shaped by the gospel\/shaped by who Jesus is and what He\u2019s done for him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wrote this book because, quite frankly, when I was growing up, I wish that my dad would have taken me through conversations like this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; I think all of us can look back with some sense of deficit that there were things we could have been better equipped for\/better trained for; but I love the fact that in the\u2014what are there?\u201418 conversations you\u2019ve got here? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> \u201414. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201414 conversations. It\u2019s everything from family, to love, to generosity, to money, to girls, to heaven\u2014defending others\u2014all kinds of subjects. You followed the same pattern\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014in each of these conversations. Just explain what this pattern is and why you picked that pattern. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; I picked this pattern because I think it\u2019s the pattern of the Bible. I mean, I think it\u2019s essentially the gospel story that\u2019s laid out in the Bible. I want to be able to show my son, and boys around the world, how they fit into that story. What that is\u2014is creation, fall, redemption, and then our lives lived in love for one another as we anticipate the consummation\/as we anticipate heaven. We were created to be something. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, you take a subject like money\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014you would say: \u201cGod has a design for money. He has a creation plan for that\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; money is meant to be used in a certain way. Then we look at, not only how we were created to be generous with our money, but how we are to use our money to glorify God\/to serve the people around us. We were created in that way, but then we see how Adam and Eve\u2014in the fall section of each of the chapters\u2014we see how they actually <em>grasped<\/em> for power. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen we move on, and we look at how Jesus then came and lived the life that we <em>never<\/em> could live; right? Jesus was generous; in fact, Jesus\u2014when He had the power to come and take over and run things\u2014Jesus laid His power aside. He didn\u2019t count equality with God a thing to be grasped; but He set it aside for a time and then became one of us and lived in generosity\u2014generosity to the point of dying on the cross for us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, now, how does that motivate me to live?\u2014knowing that Jesus\u2019 righteousness is my own. It actually frees me, because I don\u2019t have to worry about God providing for me; in fact, God tells me: \u201cDon\u2019t be anxious about anything. Look at the lilies. Look at the flowers of the field. They are beautiful. They grow. I clothe them. Won\u2019t I do the same for <em>you<\/em>?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou see, that\u2019s the sort of pattern of life, where I think so often what we do, as parents, is\u2014we do really good at the creation aspect; right?\u2014\u201cYou were created to be this.\u201d We do really good at the fall aspect; right?\u2014\u201cYou\u2014you, little sinner. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We know that conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cyou messed this up again. You used money for your own ends\u201d; right? We do really good at those parts. Then, where I noticed in my own parenting, and in the parenting of the folks around me, we are all wrestling with: \u201cWell, how does the gospel change this?\u201d and \u201cHow does it change it for our kids?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s where I think that this book really has\u2014it seems, to me, to have struck a chord in that it equips dads who, quite frankly\u2014most dads work a long week. They come home; they are exhausted after work; they\u2019ve been doing things all day long\u2014and most dads just don\u2019t have the energy to put into figuring out how to have a gospel conversation with their son. I think that\u2019s where this book really comes in\u2014is like just to help and to guide dads\u2014to say, \u201cHey, think this way\u2026\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s a tool. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know every dad in my church is saying: \u201cJust tell me what to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI mean, don\u2019t give me\u2026\u201d\u2014and you just did. You just walked us through a discussion on money with your son\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in the last five minutes. Any dad can do it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhere were you 17 years ago?\u201d I mean, you talk about clueless. Here is what I did\u2014and I\u2019m a speaker for FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, so I should know better\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but I wanted to have, at one point, a rite of passage\u2014and actually several. The first one with my sons\u2014I had three sons\u2014was around 12\/13. We had discussions; but I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m going to take them away.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere is the funny thing\u2014I get to my third son\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014Cody is his name. He says, \u201cDad, you\u2019re not going to do that lame thing you did with CJ and Austin,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what he says!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> That\u2019s so perfect. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> At this point, I thought those trips were <em>life-changing<\/em>; you know? It was like, \u201cWhat?!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; total fail. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which was interesting; because he came to me first and said, \u201cMom, don\u2019t let him do that to me.\u201d [Laughter] I said, \u201cYou need to go talk to Dad about it.\u201d <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, he tells me this. I\u2019m like\u2014I\u2019m not going to mention what I did\u2014but I used a cassette tape series, by a well-known author, that helps you do this; you know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> They were a little dated at the time, probably. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They were dated, but it was great stuff. It just got you into discussions on important topics for a young boy, 13. So, for my last one, we were actually going to drive to Pittsburgh and go to the AFC Championship game between\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Oh, sweet! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014the Patriots and the Steelers. I had a buddy that was a Lions player\u2014now a Steelers guy\u2014got me tickets\/the whole thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re driving there, and I hand Cody a little sheet of paper; we\u2019re getting ready to drive. He goes, \u201cWhat\u2019s this, Dad?\u201d I go, \u201cSee all those topics,\u201d\u2014I had probably 25 topics\u2014he goes, \u201cYes.\u201d \u201cWe\u2019re going to talk about every one of those on this trip. You pick any one you want, any order you want; but we\u2019re covering all 25.\u201d That\u2019s what we did; we just sort of had a discussion. It actually went really well; because we had six hours there, six hours back\u2014twelve hours. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut <em>you\u2019ve<\/em> written it in a way I had <em>never<\/em> thought through. What a great concept to say: \u201cGod\u2019s idea of creation; how we\u2019ve missed it; now, how do we recover?\u201d So, way to go! That\u2019s a very helpful tool. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here\u2019s the thing about that format. It\u2019s easy for us, as parents, to say: \u201cHere\u2019s the right way to do it. Now, do it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s a formula for disaster; because you\u2019ll try it\u2014and if it goes well\u2014you\u2019ll pat yourself on the back and go, \u201cLook at me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If it goes poorly, you\u2019ll go, \u201cI can\u2019t do this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, you\u2019re either going to go toward self-righteousness\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014or you\u2019re going to go toward failure and sin; but what you\u2019ve done is say, \u201cLet\u2019s just expect that we\u2019re not going to be able to implement this because we\u2019re flawed.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When that happens, we shouldn\u2019t look and say, \u201cI guess we don\u2019t know.\u201d \u201cWell, we\u2019re all in the same boat! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cNow, how does the gospel speak to that? And out of understanding how the gospel speaks to it, now, it\u2019s not just behavior modification; but now, it\u2019s heart change that leads to a different life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right; and the thing is\u2014I think that parents come into these conversations, thinking they need to nail it on the first conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> I know I fell into this trap, where I would have a conversation with my son, and then I would think to myself: \u201cOh, man, I totally blew it. I didn\u2019t cover this and that and the other thing.\u201d Having a guide like this\u2014I found in my own life and in my friends\u2019 lives, who have read this\u2014really opens them up to say, \u201cMan, I can have multiple conversations on this one topic.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat this book, actually, is giving me is less of a script and more of like just a way of being so that I can live this, and I can talk about it, and we can have multiple conversations over our lifetime. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And what you\u2019ve done is you\u2019ve opened the door to conversations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That right, there, can be awkward with a dad and son, even to know how to get into it,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Totally. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014what to say. You\u2019ve also geared it to a certain age group. Why that?\u2014why that age group? How old are the boys that you\u2019re thinking? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> So, yes; this book is written for the age group of boys between about five and eleven. The reason is because an old friend of mine told me that, in that age, kids are like wet cement. You pour them in; and if you don\u2019t put up forms, they just kind of go wherever they want to go; then the cement dries. Then you\u2019ve got to bring in the jackhammer to break it up; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if you help your kids in that era\/in that time of their lives\u2014and you help them set the forms on their lives so that their life is shaped by the gospel\u2014then, when you pour the cement in, the cement is shaped to be like Jesus. It\u2019s shaped to be molded and conformed to what the gospel actually says about who we are, as human beings. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tReally, as dads, we have this <em>amazing<\/em> opportunity with our sons to be able to speak into the midst of their experience and help them see where they are, where is God, and who God is making them to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of the things I love about the book is it\u2019s a conversation\u2014it\u2019s just a conversation\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cHave these conversations; here are 14 topics to talk about with your sons.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Each conversation, I think, is six or eight pages long; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, it\u2019s achievable over biscuits and gravy; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Oh, totally. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But I know buddies of mine that have just\u2014they\u2019ve got stuck; they\u2019re afraid. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>They: \u201cI want to,\u201d \u201cI should,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m working a lot of hours,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m tired,\u201d\u2014they don\u2019t do it. What do you say to that dad? How do you get him started? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; first of all, I would say to the dads out there, who struggle with this particular issue. Number one, I totally identify with you. I\u2019m a dad, who works construction. That means that my day starts at about six o\u2019clock in the morning, and it ends at about six o\u2019clock at night\u2014that\u2019s every day. I also preach on the weekends, write books\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Dude! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> \u2014I get what it means to be busy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow! I guess so. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> I get it. The reality is, dads\u2014first of all, it\u2019s never too late to start talking to your sons, whether your son is six, or your son is sixteen, or your son is twenty-six. It\u2019s never too late to start talking to your sons. If you struggle in this area, then I would just encourage you, dad: \u201cTake your son out for ice cream. Ask him how his day went\u2014that\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> lead-in question. Show your son that you\u2019re there to hear your son talk more than you are there to talk to your son, because you want this to be a dialogue.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDialogues are scary, I think, for dads; because a lot of times, we don\u2019t know how to respond in the right way. If you\u2019re a dad like me, you come home from work and you\u2019re tired. Your son starts talking about video games, and Fortnite, and the next thing; and it\u2019s like my eyes gloss over, and I\u2019ve lost track; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the reality is that, as dads, we have this <em>amazing<\/em> opportunity to lock in with our sons. For the dad who is afraid\/for the dad who thinks he\u2019s blown it, man, there is grace for you. There is gospel for you too, Dad. The beauty is\u2014is that God knew you weren\u2019t going to be the dad who you think you should be; and yet, God is our perfect Father, and He\u2019s that for us because of the work of Jesus. That gives you the ability to just step into\u2014just lean into the awkward\/just move right into that space and tell your son: \u201cSon, we haven\u2019t done this before. This may get awkward; this may get weird; but I love you, and I think this is important. So, let\u2019s just do this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDon\u2019t think that you need to have six hours of conversations\u2014that may be the right thing to do\u2014but it may be right for you to just take your son out for an ice cream. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, there was another one\u2014so, I\u2019m thinking: \u201cWell, my wife has done this. Mom has done this with Johnny. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cIt went well, and I know they have a great relationship. Do I really, as a dad\u2014do I need to step in as well?\u201d How important is it for dad to have these conversations with their son? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; as dads, I think we are two things. We\u2014in many ways, and this isn\u2019t meant to scare you, dads; but this is just kind of the reality of the situation. As a dad, in many ways, your son will see God\/His Father through the lens of your parenting. So dads, you have a very vital role in that. That\u2019s scary on the one hand because, as dads, we blow it; right? We blow it big time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn the other hand, though, that\u2019s a perfect way for you to lean into this story: \u201cAs a dad, I was created to be something so much more than what I am. Yet, sin, so often, rules in my life; it reigns in me, and I hate it. But I know that Jesus connected me to my perfect Father. Jesus loves me and embraces me, and now I want to do that with you, son.\u201d So, it\u2019s number one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber two: Dads, you can move into this area\u2014and you can do it with confidence\u2014because you\u2019re going to bring a perspective on masculinity that your wife just doesn\u2019t have. Your wife doesn\u2019t know what it means to be a man. She doesn\u2019t know our struggles the same way that <em>we<\/em> do. Your son having these conversations with your wife is great. I mean, believe me, that\u2019s something you need to promote\/you need to support. My wife does that with me\u2014she supports my conversations with our daughter. But the reality is that: \u201cDads, you bring a perspective into masculinity; you help set your son up to know what it is to live by the gospel, as a man. You have that perspective that your wife doesn\u2019t have; you have that understanding that she doesn\u2019t have.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and I know that I also, as I reflect back on\u2014you know, I have three grown sons and grandkids. I remember thinking two things: \u201cOne, I want to change a legacy. My dad never had conversations with me\u201d\u2014he wasn\u2019t there\/divorced home\u2014\u201cand I get to change\u201d\u2014but the passive part of me is like\u2014\u201ctomorrow.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cFriday\u201d; you know?\u2014another day will go by. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; totally. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The other thought was\u2014and Bob and I know; and Ann knows\u2014and you\u2019re going to discover\u2014you\u2019re going to blink, and they are gone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I heard that from older dads\u2014tell me that. In the middle of that, I\u2019m like: \u201cOh, no, they are never leaving. Every day is exhausting. There is snot; there are diapers.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; totally. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Then you get here; and you\u2019re like, \u201cWhere did it go?!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll never forget\u2014I was sitting in the Silverdome\/Pontiac Silverdome at one of the Promise Keepers\u2014had to be the \u201880s; is that when Promise Keepers was? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014early \u201890s; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> A local pastor from Detroit gets up. I\u2019m in the very other end zone, with probably 70,000 men; and his name was Joe Stowell\/Dr. Joe Stowell. He was the pastor of Highland Park Baptist at the time and ended up at Moody as President. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe told this story\u2014I\u2019ve never forgotten it. It was this simple\u2014he goes: \u201cI really care about my front yard,\u201d\u2014this sounds ridiculous\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t hire anybody; I do it.\u201d He goes, \u201cSounds crazy; but I wanted my front yard to be the nicest yard in the neighborhood, and it <em>was<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He said, \u201cI had three sons.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m sitting there, going, \u201cWell, I have three sons\u201d; and they were little at the time. I\u2019m not even sure my third was born yet; but I\u2019m leaning up, like, \u201cOh, here is a father, ahead of me, telling a story about three sons.\u201d He says: \u201cMy youngest son loved basketball, and he wanted me to put a basketball pole in the front drive way. I said, \u2018No; it\u2019s going to ruin the <em>yard<\/em>. I don\u2019t want a basketball pole.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He said, \u201cFinally, I gave in and said, \u2018Okay; we\u2019ll put up the basketball pole.\u2019\u201d He said, \u201cEvery time, I pulled down my street, I would see that thing, like, \u2018The yard would look so much better without this hoop sitting there.\u2019 Every day, my son would say, \u2018Dad, let\u2019s shoot hoops\u2019; and every day, I\u2019d say, \u2018I\u2019ve got to work on the yard.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe goes\u2014I will never forget\u2014\u201cI had to do a funeral for a 12-year-old boy in my church that passed.\u201d He said, \u201cI\u2019m driving home after that funeral, and I see my front yard.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He looks at it, and he goes: \u201cWhat am I doing? It\u2019s the nicest yard on the street; yes; and I\u2019m missing this moment.\u201d He says: \u201cI walk in the house; I go upstairs. My son is doing homework. I open his door. I go, \u2018Hey, want to shoot hoops?\u2019 He goes, \u2018No, no, Dad. I\u2019ve got a lot of homework.\u2019\u201d I\u2019ll never forget\u2014Joe said, \u201cI shut the door and walked down the hall; and I said: \u2018I messed it! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201c\u2019There was a season of his life; I missed it for a <em>yard<\/em>.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That story stuck. I\u2019m a young dad; I\u2019m like: \u201cDon\u2019t want to miss it. I want to have these conversations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cSeize the moment and the day.\u201d Now, we know; those days are <em>gone<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You either grab them or you don\u2019t. You\u2019ve written a tool that says: \u201cDads, I\u2019ll help you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cHere you go. Use this, and have these conversations while you can.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here is the thing\u2014now, we\u2019ve taken the excuse of \u201cI don\u2019t know what to say,\u201d away from dad\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014right? So, the dad, is thinking, \u201cWell, I\u2019d do it; I just don\u2019t know what to say,\u201d\u2014\u201cWe\u2019ll give you what to say for the next 14 meetings with your son. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cIt\u2019s mapped out for you; you can walk through it. Joel has given you the theme; so if you\u2019re going to have a talk with him about a subject like love: \u2018Well, what does the Bible say about this?\u2019\u2014there are suggested activities; there are discussion questions as you go through this\u2014Bible verses you can look at; and then: \u2018How do we respond to it?\u2019 It\u2019s simple; we\u2019ve got the script. Now, all you have to do is carve out the time and be intentional with your son.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave, your point is exactly right\u2014there is a window for this; don\u2019t let the window close. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Get a copy of Joel\u2019s book, <em>Between Us Guys: Life-Changing Conversations for Dads and Sons<\/em>. We\u2019ve got the book available; you can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY. Once again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. The book is called <em>Between Us Guys<\/em>. Order online or call to order at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, one of the things we are committed to, here, at FamilyLife is the goal of helping you, as parents, pass on a legacy of spiritual vitality to your children\/to the next generation. We believe that this is what God has made us for, as moms and dads. It\u2019s our number-one priority. Here at FamilyLife\u2014along with helping you in your marriage and understanding your roles in marriage; helping you walk closely with God\u2014we want to make sure we\u2019re coaching you on how you can make a spiritual handoff to your kids and point them in the right direction, spiritually. <br><br>We\u2019re grateful for those of you who are, not just listeners to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, but those of you who make this ministry possible\u00a0 for your neighbors, for other people in your city, for people all around the world, who are connecting with FamilyLife online. When you support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, you help extend the reach of this ministry through this program, through our website, through our resources, and our events. You\u2019re helping us reach more people more often with practical biblical help and hope for their marriage and for their family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re a longtime listener and you\u2019ve never made a donation, or if you\u2019ve been listening and thought about becoming a monthly Legacy Partner to support this ministry on an ongoing basis, can we ask you to do that today? Go to FamilyLifeToday.com; make a donation online; or call to donate at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d We look forward to hearing from you, and we appreciate your partnership with us in this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us back, again, tomorrow. Joel Fitzpatrick will be here again as we continue talking about dads and sons and how they can connect, and how dads can be intentional about discipling their sons.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/305523","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305523"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305523"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305523"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305523"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=305523"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=305523"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=305523"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}