{"id":305515,"date":"2019-11-12T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2019-11-12T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-money-disruptors\/"},"modified":"2024-10-08T00:16:57","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T04:16:57","slug":"the-money-disruptors","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-money-disruptors\/","title":{"rendered":"The Money Disruptors"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Art Rainer talks about four different money personalities in marriage: the saver, spender, investor, and ignorer. He explains how bad money habits can derail a marriage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-11-12.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:25","filesize":"25.1M","filesize_raw":"26319395","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2082,2851,2810],"tags":[4525],"podcast_series":[8315],"cwp_profile":[9582],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305515","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-communication","category-finances","category-growing-spiritually","tag-finances","podcast_series-the-marriage-challenge","cwp_profile-art-rainer","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305515\/the-money-disruptors","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305515\/the-money-disruptors","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"AQlXOzvHwU\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-money-disruptors\/\">The Money Disruptors<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-money-disruptors\/embed\/#?secret=AQlXOzvHwU\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Money Disruptors&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"AQlXOzvHwU\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Art Rainer talks about four different money personalities in marriage: the saver, spender, investor, and ignorer. He explains how bad money habits can derail a marriage.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-11-12.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you and your spouse have separate bank accounts? Do you keep your money separated? Art Rainer says there <em>may<\/em> be a reason why that\u2019s necessary for some couples; but in <em>general<\/em>, it\u2019s a bad idea.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art: <\/strong>There\u2019s a big shift that <em>should<\/em> occur when you get married. It\u2019s no longer \u201c<em>my<\/em> money\u201d or \u201c<em>my<\/em> bank account\u201d; but \u201c<em>our<\/em> money\u201d\/\u201c<em>our<\/em> bank account.\u201d <em>If<\/em> we\u2019re saying that God\u2019s design for our marriages is to be one\u2014you look at Genesis 2:24: they\u2019re to be one. You go to, then, 1 Corinthians 7:4: Paul says that not even their own bodies are their own anymore. <em>If<\/em> our own bodies are not our own, then should our bank accounts be?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, November 12<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. The way we handle our money in marriage can either promote oneness or can push us toward isolation. We\u2019re going to spend time talking about that today with Art Rainer. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Did you ever have actual envelopes, where you divided up the money and put some in one envelope; some in another envelope? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Ann is over there, laughing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She\u2019s laughing again. What\u2019s going on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think I know why. I want to hear her say it. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No, go ahead. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Go ahead.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What are you going to say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know; I\u2019m going to let you go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019ll answer that. We always <em>wanted<\/em> to. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I thought. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We sat in with Dave Ramsey\u2014we\u2019re like, \u201cYes, yes! We\u2019re going to do this,\u201d and then we never did, but we needed to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We do it in a different way, Bob; it\u2019s basically an envelope.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Our kids had envelopes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As we were raising them, we\u2019d use the: \u201cHere\u2019s your allowance. You get $10; so $1 goes here,\u201d and \u201c$1 goes here. You\u2019ve got the other $8.\u201d We used that with them. We were more sophisticated than envelopes for ourselves, that we were able to divide it up and know what our allocations needed to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe envelope idea\/to have mental envelopes is <em>not<\/em> a bad thing for a married couple as they start to think about, \u201cOkay; here\u2019s the paycheck.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s worked for a lot of couples, at least, in the beginning in getting their minds straight and getting their head around it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We know many couples who still do that. One of the greatest things about it is that it forces you to communicate about money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When it comes to money, communication may be one of the biggest reasons why there are money in marriage problems\u2014not money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014especially when the money in the envelope runs out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tArt Rainer is joining us this week on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Art, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> Thank you for having me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Art is the vice president of Institutional Advancement at Southeastern Baptist Seminary in Wake Forest. He\u2019s got an MBA. He\u2019s written a book called <em>The Marriage Challenge<\/em>. Actually, you wrote <em>The Money Challenge<\/em> first; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> That\u2019s correct; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s all about money and how we use it. <em>The Marriage Challenge<\/em> really takes those principles and talks about the relational tensions that can happen around money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> It places it in the context of the marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The thing I love about the book\u2014you give couples a game plan. You say: \u201cHere\u2019s Step One,\u201d \u201cHere\u2019s Step Two,\u201d \u201cHere\u2019s Step Three,\u201d \u201cHere\u2019s how you get on track. It may take you awhile to get to Step Four, Five, and Six; but that\u2019s okay. Just stay with the steps.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen you talk about how couples get sabotaged and what the problems are. Communication is one of those issues that\u2014couples don\u2019t have money problems; they have communication problems; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> Yes; usually when you hear of a couple, who divorces because of financial issues\u2014they say that finance is the reason why they separated\u2014that was more of a symptom of something that was going on in their marriage. Usually, there\u2019s an underlying symptom that manifests itself in their finances. Certainly, finances can cause stress; but more than likely, when a divorce happens, there\u2019s probably something else that was under there. Communication, and lack of communication, is absolutely one of those issues that you often see.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I remember the two of us\u2014if I would overspend, I would think: \u201cWhat\u2019s the problem? I apologized; why are you so upset?\u201d What I realized\u2014Dave felt disrespected by me not adhering to our plan, which, to me, it was like: \u201cI respect you. I just want to spend more money.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We definitely were weak in communication. I was the guy who didn\u2019t want to talk about it. I wanted to talk about it; but I really didn\u2019t, because I felt stress and anxiety. When you talk about it, it\u2019s all there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember one time, sitting in Moby Gym, at a Campus Crusade staff training\u2014we were on staff with Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> at the time\u2014some missionary\u2019s on the stage, and they asked for money. We had little cards; I write down a number. They said: \u201cPray and ask God; write down a number; send it in.\u201d Never looked at Ann\/never talked to her about it; I make a pledge as much as is in our savings account.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We\u2019re talking $3,000; it wasn\u2019t a lot of money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s a lot of money to not talk to your wife about what you\u2019re doing with it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Guess what happened after that little meeting? After we\u2019re done, she goes, \u201cWhat do you think?\u201d I go: \u201cI\u2019m sure you thought the same thing. I gave our savings account.\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201cWhat??!!\u201d So, there we were\u2014newlywed couple, nobody had taught us anything about money. One of the first things: \u201cTalk!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art: <\/strong>Absolutely; talk\/communicate about money. Also, what I\u2019m hearing is the need to understand each other\u2019s money personality.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; to go deeper into it; you\u2019re right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> That\u2019s absolutely right. When you marry your spouse, they\u2019re likely to have a different money personality than you. In <em>The Marriage Challenge<\/em> I have four different types of money personalities: you have the Saver\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s the right one; that\u2019s the right one. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right\u2014the biblical one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> \u2014I\u2019m going to get to that, you know. [Laughter] You have the Spender; you have the Investor; and you also have the Ignorer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs you mentioned, the Saver often gets the praise; right? They\u2019re the ones that everybody says, \u201cWell, they are the ones that have everything together.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I wasn\u2019t praising Dave about that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> It\u2019s the Spender that often gets the bad rep; right? They\u2019re the ones that you often say, \u201cAhh! I can\u2019t believe\u2014they\u2019re just the Spender.\u201d It\u2019s important to understand that, regardless of your money personality\/regardless of your spouse\u2019s money personality\u2014there\u2019s strengths, and there\u2019s weaknesses. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor the Saver, your strength is you like to save money. That\u2019s a <em>good<\/em> thing; you like to set aside money for retirement\u2014that\u2019s a <em>really<\/em> good thing to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It is a good thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art: <\/strong>The downside is that, if you go on a vacation, you\u2019re opting for the tent as opposed to a hotel. It\u2019s not because you can\u2019t afford a hotel; it\u2019s because you save money by going with the tent option.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you say, \u201cGo on a vacation?\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> I made some assumptions there. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor the Spender\u2014the negative that is often pointed out is that they\u2019re quick to swipe the credit card. They\u2019re likely to spend money without asking the other spouse\u2014that\u2019s a negative; that\u2019s not good. At the same time, the Spender is the one who often thinks of others first; they\u2019re the ones who are more likely to buy gifts for other people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s the true spender that I am; it\u2019s not on myself. I want to buy for other people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good thing, as long as it\u2019s within the context of the budget. You\u2019re [Ann] probably thinking about it more than you [Dave] are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Hey, watch it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> I\u2019m not saying that you don\u2019t love people; it\u2019s just your money personality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Investor likes to take risks\u2014that can be good and bad; they\u2019re willing to invest for retirement. They\u2019re not scared of stocks, and mutual funds, and these types of investments. However, they can be a little bit too risky at times; that\u2019s the downside.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Ignorer\u2014the positive is that they\u2019re not really phased by money; that doesn\u2019t really bother them. The downside is they\u2019re often detached from the actual financial dealings of the house\u2014what\u2019s actually going on. They don\u2019t <em>know<\/em> whether they\u2019re in a financially healthy spot or not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Where do you think these patterns come from?\u2014are they nurture?\u2014nature?\u2014is it what you grew up in?\u2014is it the way you\u2019re wired?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> A little bit of both. You have what\u2019s called your \u201cmoney story\u201d; right?\u2014how you learned about money. That\u2019s derived, in part, from your upbringing\/your experience with your own family. You also have, sometimes, generational effects. In 2008, that had a big impact on Millennials and how they thought about investing. They were somewhat delayed for awhile because they were fearful. They watched their parents lose massive amounts of money in their retirement accounts and, even, jobs; and so, they\u2019re hesitant to invest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you look at the Depression Era\u2014if you know somebody from the Depression Era, or if you have known somebody from the Depression Era\u2014likely, they were pretty frugal. It\u2019s because they went through a very difficult point in our nation, when the unemployment rate was at 25 percent. Those had a major impact on how they viewed money\/how they managed money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, of course, you have your natural personality. It\u2019s a combination of those things that develop your money personality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting\u2014as you talk about marriage dividers\u2014one of them being this communication thing\u2014talk about how a married couple should talk about this very thing before marriage\/in marriage. We never had a discussion about money before we got married. How na\u00efve is that? Talk about how we communicate about money as a married couple.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> It starts with simply the words that you use and how you describe the finances in your home. There\u2019s a big shift that <em>should<\/em> occur when you get married. It\u2019s no longer \u201c<em>my <\/em>money\u201d or \u201c<em>my<\/em> bank account\u201d; but \u201c<em>our<\/em> money\u201d\/\u201c<em>our<\/em> bank account.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So, every married couple should join their accounts. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s something that I\u2019m a pretty big proponent of. I like the idea of joint accounts because of what it brings to the marriage. As I\u2019ve dealt with couples that are in pre-marital classes, that\u2019s often a big surprise: \u201cSo, you\u2019re saying I shouldn\u2019t have my own account?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, even for blended families, that can even be a bigger situation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> Absolutely; I understand that. But if we\u2019re saying that God\u2019s design for our marriages is to be one\u2014Genesis 2:24: they\u2019re to be one. You go to, then, \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t1 Corinthians 7:4: Paul says that not even their own bodies are their own anymore. <em>If<\/em> our own bodies are\u00a0 not our own, then should our bank accounts be? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI understand there are accounts out there, like your retirement accounts, where you can literally have only one person on the account. In that situation, I would say, \u201cMake sure that your spouse has the user ID and password\u2014that they have access to it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTry to be as unified in your finances as possible. It goes back to changing the language and the way we think about money; so when you\u2019re communicating, it\u2019s no longer \u201c<em>my<\/em> money\u201d; it\u2019s no longer \u201c<em>my<\/em> paycheck\u201d; but it\u2019s \u201c<em>our<\/em> money\u201d\/\u201c<em>our<\/em> paycheck.\u201d At the same time, it\u2019s no longer \u201c<em>your<\/em> expenditures.\u201d You\u2019re not saying, \u201c<em>You<\/em> spent this; this is <em>your<\/em> expenditure,\u201d but it\u2019s <em>ours<\/em> because, when you\u2019re married, expenditures don\u2019t happen in a vacuum. They affect one another, so it truly is <em>our<\/em> expenditure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good question. I\u2019m out on my own, and Ann\u2019s at home; and I want to buy a pair of shoes. What do you tell a married couple? How much communication? Do I check with her to buy a $50 pair of shoes? Or do I only check with her when I want to buy a $15,000 motorcycle? Which one\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to provide a very clear answer on that one: \u201cIt depends.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There you go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Alright.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art: \u201c<\/strong>It\u2019s going to depend on how you all\/on what you all decide as a couple.\u201d Is $50\u2014is that the limit? Is $15,000 the limit? I doubt it would be $15,000; but \u201cIs there a limit, where you all are comfortable?\u2014saying, \u2018If there is a purchase under $40, I am fine; we can do that.\u2019\u201d It goes back to communication. That conversation <em>has<\/em> to happen. You have to sit down and figure out: \u201cWhat is that amount for us?\u201d because it\u2019s going to vary from couple to couple. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This communication presupposes that we\u2019ve got some basic principles, where we\u2019re in alignment and in agreement. I think, a lot of times, you\u2019re not having good communication because, when you try to communicate, you\u2019ve got clashing presuppositions\u2014not just personalities\u2014but clashing priorities or clashing\u2014like one person says, \u201cI started an IRA when I\u2019m 16,\u201d\u2014like you did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> I\u2019m weird; I know. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Saving for retirement is a big deal. The other partner is looking and going, \u201cWe\u2019re putting money in a retirement account; and the kids can\u2019t have a new pair of shoes to go to school with because we want to save money for retirement?\u201d Can we look at them and say, \u201cHe\u2019s right; she\u2019s wrong,\u201d \u201cShe\u2019s right\u201d? We have to figure out how to get to oneness around these priorities.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> One of the tools that I provide in <em>The Marriage Challenge<\/em> are the eight money milestones. Wherever you are on your financial journey, these eight money milestones can provide some clarity for what steps need to be taken in your finances as you pursue financial health for the sake\u2014and I always want to make sure we put this in there\u2014for the sake of advancing God\u2019s kingdom\/for the sake of living and giving generously. That\u2019s why we pursue financial health.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose eight money milestones are in there. They really guide a good section of the book to, hopefully, provide clarity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s really the heart of the book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As we\u2019re dealing with the obstacles to financial oneness and things like communication being a trip wire, we\u2019re really jumping past the heart of the book to say: \u201cLet\u2019s talk about where couples find discord.\u201d Communication is not the only place. One of the things that\u2019s a big issue here is selfishness: \u201cI want what I want,\u201d and \u201cI earned that money,\u201d or \u201cI deserve that money,\u201d or \u201cYou got your thing, so I should get my thing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s a big one\u2014not for me\u2014but for most other people, who are selfish. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Art, you even say in your book that you didn\u2019t realize how \u201cme-centric\u201d you were until you got married. How did you discover that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> Well, pre-marriage: it was all about me. I\u2019m the only one I had to concern myself about. With my finances, I was taking care of myself and nobody else. Now, I have my spouse; I have Sarah. I have to think about somebody else, not just with finances, but in <em>every<\/em> aspect of life, whether it\u2019s even just scheduling a trip\/going out of town. I need to check with her first; I did not have to do that before. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy eyes were opened quickly to see how selfish I was because my world revolved around me. I am going to say that now that we have three kids, I really understood how selfish I was. Marriage opens your eyes to see how selfish you were.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can honestly remember\u2014I mean, this is decades ago\u2014standing in a sporting goods store, looking at a pair of Nikes that I <em>so<\/em> badly wanted, and having three boys at home, knowing: \u201cI can\u2019t buy these. I can, and be the most selfish jerk in the world. I need to take the money I would spend on those and spend it on my kids.\u201d It was a hard decision.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know some people don\u2019t make that decision, and they don\u2019t even communicate about it. You\u2019ve got selfishness and communication destroying their marriage; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That was nice of you to do that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I got them a different way. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But you have some signs of our selfishness: \u201cYou don\u2019t compromise; you blame. You take the \u2018It\u2019s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission,\u2019 approach; you hide purchases.\u201d There are some real signs of selfishness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Hiding purchases\u2014I\u2019m going to bust myself here. I went to the grocery store one time. I came back and Mary Ann said, \u201cWhat did you get at the grocery store?\u201d I told her some of what I had gotten at the grocery store; right? [Laughter] I did not tell her a lie; I just didn\u2019t tell her the whole truth; right? What I had forgotten was that the grocery store had started printing out, on the receipt, itemized descriptions of what you bought. [Laughter] She found the receipt\u2014she said: \u201cWhere are the Doritos<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>? You didn\u2019t tell me you got Doritos. And ice cream?\u2014you got ice cream, too?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s what I learned from that: It\u2019s not an issue of whether I can buy Doritos if I want Doritos or not. I had just sown seeds of distrust by not being disclosing with my wife. When she said, \u201cWhat did you get?\u201d I said, \u201cI got oranges,\u201d and \u201cI got this,\u201d and \u201cI got that.\u201d I just left off the Doritos and the ice cream. I had just sown seeds of distrust. Now, the next time she says, \u201cWhat did you do? Where did you go?\u201d she\u2019s wondering: \u201cWhat\u2019s he not telling me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis issue of building trust around money\u2014this may be the biggest hidden explosive in a marriage. When one of you is not being disclosing\u2014when you are doing what your [Ann\u2019s] mom did: \u201cDon\u2019t tell Dad about what we bought,\u201d that\u2019s toxic, not just for your money; that\u2019s toxic for every part of your relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> In <em>The Marriage Challenge<\/em>, there\u2019s a fictional story that goes along with what I call the core content. In the story, you have Chris, who gets really upset over some undisclosed debt that his wife Claire has brought into the marriage. They\u2019re newlyweds; they\u2019re on their honeymoon. Then he finds this out. For those who are going to read the book, I\u2019m not going to spoil it; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the reason why Chris is so upset about the loans\u2014it\u2019s not that he\u2019s\/he\u2019s somewhat scared for the financial future\u2014he\u2019s also concerned for their marriage; because of what that type of thing did to his brother, who is now divorced. It became a trust issue; it was all about trust once it manifested itself in the finances; but there was actually an underlying issue there, and that was distrust. He was concerned about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What do you say to the listener, who, right now is listening and going: \u201cShould I tell my husband?\u201d \u201cShould I tell my wife? I\u2019ve got something that I haven\u2019t\u2026\u201d\u2014maybe it\u2019s bigger than Doritos.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> It likely is\u2014if there\u2019s something hidden, it\u2019s likely bigger than Doritos.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What should they do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Art:<\/strong> You should tell. You have to be forthright with this information. It\u2019s the only way reconciliation can happen; because it is going to show up at some point, whether it\u2019s with that particular purchase or another purchase in the future. It\u2019s going to reveal itself; it is going be ugly and can be disastrous in a marriage. It\u2019s wrong, in general, to hide these from your spouse; but eventually, something\u2019s going to happen to where it will come to a head\/it will come to light. The result\u2019s going to be disastrous.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; in a sense, Jesus\u2014I mean, it reminds me of Jesus\u2019s words: \u201cWhat you do in the dark will be broadcast at some point\u201d\u2014whether it\u2019s financial, sexual\u2014anything done in the dark, as long as it stays in the dark, can destroy you. Obviously, we\u2019re talking about money; but it could be anything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would say\/here is what I would say: \u201cBecause the fear of exposing this to my spouse or to anyone is: \u2018Honestly, I can\u2019t trust God,\u2019\u2014when you are bringing it into the light, you\u2019re not saying, \u2018I\u2019m going to trust my spouse\u2019; because they may not respond in a great way\u2014but there is a God, who even through that exposure, will meet you through that. It will be the best thing you ever do. Today could be the day for somebody to say, \u2018Okay; I\u2019ve got to come clean,\u2019\u2014whether it\u2019s money; whether it\u2019s porn; you name it\u2014\u2018Today is the day I\u2019m bringing it into the light. I\u2019m going to trust God\u2019s going to meet us.\u2019 It may be a little messy for awhile, but He\u2019ll eventually meet you right there.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There\u2019s a freedom that comes in that, because that secret\u2019s heavy to carry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; I\u2019m thinking a couple may need to have a conversation, where they go: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cOkay; let\u2019s just ask ourselves: \u2018Is our communication healthy when it comes to issues of money,\u2019 or \u2018Are we dodging each other? Are we avoiding these conversations?\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWhen we have the conversations, are we teammates? Or are we adversaries around these conversations?\u201d and \u201cHow can we become teammates?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHow can we not accuse or polarize ourselves from one another?\u201d and \u201cIs there any reason we don\u2019t trust one another?\u201d and \u201cAre we hiding anything?\u201d and \u201cWhy do we hide things? What\u2019s behind that; what\u2019s the motive there?\u201d and \u201cHow can we safely bring these things out into the open so that there doesn\u2019t have to be hiding?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then my selfishness\u2014I mean, \u201cLet\u2019s acknowledge this is bone-deep in all of us\u2014we are predisposed\/prewired toward being selfish.\u201d Even those who would say, \u201cWell, I\u2019m not spending money on me; I\u2019m spending money on other people.\u201d The reason you\u2019re spending money on other people is because you feel better when you\u2019re doing nice things for other people. There\u2019s still a selfishness motive that can be at the heart of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet\u2019s expose some of these things. Let\u2019s have the conversation, where we address these things so that we can start to get healthy in how we begin to pursue oneness around money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, it\u2019s interesting on the back of Art\u2019s book, it says: \u201cGod has a plan for your marriage and your money. It starts with a challenge. Will you accept?\u201d I was just listening to you, Bob, thinking, \u201cThere\u2019s the challenge.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s the challenge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It could be a great night\u2014it could be a date night that you talk: \u201cTonight\u2019s theme is money.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It could be a really dangerous night is what it could be; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But if you want to get healthy, sometimes you have to go to hard places. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014necessary.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Art, you line out these challenges in one section in the book. I\u2019d encourage a couple to get a copy of the book and say: \u201cLet\u2019s read through the chapter together and, then, let\u2019s just be honest with one another. Can we trust one another? Can we have this kind of healthy communication so that we can get where we want to go? The place we want to go is a place, where we\u2019re handling our money in a way that honors God\/that advances His kingdom, and that takes care of the needs we have in this life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have copies of Art\u2019s book, <em>The Marriage Challenge<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to order a copy, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. The name of the book is <em>The Marriage Challenge<\/em> by Art Rainer. You can also order the book by calling 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve talked about how this issue of money in marriage can be one of the dividing points; it\u2019s one of the things that causes couples to isolate from one another. It can be an area of tension in marriage. Our goal, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> is to do everything we can do to effectively develop godly marriages and families, where there is healthy communication, where couples can be on the same page when it comes to issues like this, and where we can bring help and hope into a couple\u2019s marriage and help effectively develop that couple. We believe that godly marriages and godly families can change the world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the mission, here, at FamilyLife. You, as a listener, make that mission possible when you help support the work of this ministry, financially, when you become a giver to FamilyLife. Some of you have given in the past; some of you are monthly Legacy Partners. We are <em>grateful<\/em> for the partnership we have with many of our listeners. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn order to continue to reach more couples more regularly, we need to hear from more listeners. Would you consider making a financial gift today? You can do it easily. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to donate, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. When you make a donation, we want to say, \u201cThank you for your support,\u201d by giving you digital access to a study guide that Ron Blue put together, called \u201cMastering Money in Your Marriage.\u201d This is a six-session study guide that husbands and wives can go through together. It\u2019s also a great small group study. You can access the study guide, digitally, when you make a donation to support this ministry. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com to donate; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us, again, tomorrow. Art Rainer will be here to continue our conversation about marriage, and money, and oneness; and how we can come together, as husband and wife, and manage our money well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/305515","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305515"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305515"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305515"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305515"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=305515"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=305515"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=305515"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}