{"id":305460,"date":"2019-10-24T06:00:05","date_gmt":"2019-10-24T10:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/repairing-rebuilding\/"},"modified":"2019-10-24T06:00:05","modified_gmt":"2019-10-24T10:00:05","slug":"repairing-rebuilding","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/repairing-rebuilding\/","title":{"rendered":"Repairing, Rebuilding"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Sheri Keffer | Series: Intimate Deception | Intimate Deception&#8221; author Dr. Sheri Keffer reflects on her first marriage and her husband&#8217;s repeated porn use. After nine months of marriage, he did seek counseling, but instead of feeling hope, she wondered why she wasn&#8217;t enough. Keffer, now a relationship therapist, talks about the post-traumatic stress she and other women experience when their husbands confess sexual sin.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tThe Association of Partners of Sex Addicts Trauma Specialists (APSATS) for Partner Specialists that address the traumatic stress found in partners affected by sex addiction.\u00a0 https:\/\/www.apsats.org\/<br \/>\n \tThere are many Sexaholics Anonymous and Sex Addicts Anonymous groups available online.\u00a0 FamilyLife does not endorse or recommend specific providers or organizations.<br \/>\n \tThe Holiday Survival Guide has plenty of wisdom, insight, and guidance on how to manage holiday stressors.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/holiday-survival-guide\/<br \/>\n \tHas the FamilyLife Today\u00ae podcast and resources helped you?\u00a0 Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dr. Sheri Keffer reflects on her first husband&#8217;s repeated porn use. Keffer, now a relationship therapist, talks about the post-traumatic stress she and other women experience when their husbands confess sexual sin.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-10-24.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:24:55","filesize":"22.81M","filesize_raw":"23915329","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2840,2903,2844],"tags":[2989],"podcast_series":[8311],"cwp_profile":[9572],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305460","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-addiction","category-infidelity","category-pornography","tag-pornography","podcast_series-intimate-deception","cwp_profile-sheri-keffer","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305460\/repairing-rebuilding","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305460\/repairing-rebuilding","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"GdbuEBs9PX\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/repairing-rebuilding\/\">Repairing, Rebuilding<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/repairing-rebuilding\/embed\/#?secret=GdbuEBs9PX\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Repairing, Rebuilding&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"GdbuEBs9PX\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-10-24.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-10-24.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, October 24<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Sheri Keffer says that opening up about the secrets in her marriage; and then fighting for her marriage, once those secrets were known, was the hardest thing she\u2019s ever had to do in her life. We\u2019ll hear more of her story today. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You guys have been transparent and honest about the fact that, Dave, there was a season in your marriage when porn was an issue.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ann, do you remember how you became aware porn was an issue?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When Dave and I were first married, I knew that he had struggles with his eyes. He would just watch beautiful women when I was standing right in front of him, which was concerning. We had a conversation about that because it brought up all of my insecurities; but then, later, I felt a rift in our relationship. I just\u2014I kept saying, \u201cI feel like we\u2019re not as close. I feel like something is separating us. What\u2019s going on?\u201d He would say, \u201cWe\u2019re fine. I don\u2019t even know what you\u2019re talking about\u201d; but I had this sense of disconnection.\n\nThen he had told me that when he was traveling with the Detroit Lions as their chaplain, he had just kind of browsed\u2014just for a few seconds even.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I mean\u2014so, first of all, I lied to her.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, I would come home from a trip of looking at 20\/30 seconds\u2014because back then there were no digital phones.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There was a TV box. It was so interesting to think\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> In a hotel room.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014about if I went\u2014if you went beyond five minutes, then, you bought the movie.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, I played this rationale in my head: \u201cI can watch 20 seconds.\u201d I\u2019ve got to get up and then preach to the Detroit Lion players. There was this turmoil going on in my soul about\u2014\u201cI\u2019m a hypocrite\u201d\u2014but it was just a struggle. So, I lied for a while. Then, when I finally told her, that\u2019s when we started recovery\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014when I was finally honest about it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No one was talking about this back then.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No one.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I went crazy.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You felt betrayed?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Felt betrayed. I felt lied to. I felt like I couldn\u2019t trust him. It really did trigger all of my old abuse. All of the sudden, that resurfaced. My insecurities resurfaced. My thoughts of\u2014\u201cIt must be me\u201d \/ \u201cSomething is wrong with me\u201d\u2014all resurfaced, and we were both a mess. We really didn\u2019t have anywhere to turn or anyone to talk to. I wish this book would have been written back then.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No one was talking about it.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The book you are talking about is <em>Intimate Deception: Healing the Wounds of Sexually Betrayal<\/em>. The author of the book is our guest this week, Dr. Sheri Keffer. Sheri, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Thanks. It\u2019s great to be back with you. It\u2019s funny. I\u2014when you said his looking brought up your insecurities, the thought that went through my mind as a person who also experienced a husband that would look at different women\u2014is how do you know that him looking didn\u2019t cause your insecurities? Think about it; right?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> I mean, because when we\u2019re married and we think things are going good\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> \u2014we can feel comfortable. It doesn\u2019t mean we don\u2019t insecurities from our past, but we feel secure in that relationship; but when you\u2019re looking at somebody else, all of the sudden, I feel unsafe.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s interesting because when Dave and I had written our book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, Fox News picked up some pieces from our book; and they were putting them on the website every week. So, this story of Dave\u2019s neck problem came across the website; and man, this one guy, personally, messaged us telling me\u2014\u201cThis is your problem! You\u2019re insecure! This is what a guy does.\u201d I\u2019m telling you this guy was hot, and he wanted to publicly debate me.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He wanted to debate her on TV. He said\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And be paid for it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI\u2019m going to go on TV and debate you.\u201d [Laughter] Pretty interesting.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Girl, let\u2019s show up for that show. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I could bring you with me.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Sheri, this is what your clinical practice as a therapist\u2014this is your focus\u2014is helping people deal with the wounds that come from betrayal, sexual betrayal in a marriage relationship. Part of the reason it is your professional practice is because it\u2019s your personal story. You shared that you met your husband when you were in Bible college. He was a pastor. You had a long-distance relationship. You eventually were married.\n\nThere was, maybe, one clue before you got married that there might be something going on. He had called a 900 number, and he told you about that. Then six months into the marriage, you started to sense something getting in the way of your relational connectedness.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The same kind of thing that Dave and Ann were talking about.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Very similar.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When was the first time you put the pieces together and thought, \u201cHe\u2019s doing more than calling 900 numbers here?\u201d\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Yes; so, it was probably eight or nine months into our marriage. He said he was in burnout\u2014okay\u2014because he was not feeling himself. He got into counseling and then started going to these groups. I didn\u2019t know what kind of groups they were; but eventually, before our first anniversary, he shared that he was going to these groups to take a look at his issue with porn. I was absolutely broadsided\u2014like sucker punched. I had no idea that he was looking at porn. It was so hidden. It\u2019s not like I found it on anything or looked\u2014saw it on his phone.\n\nBack then, it was different than it is now; but you know what\u2019s crazy? It takes me back to a story on our honeymoon night. Before we made love, I ended up doing something that I dreamt of doing\u2014is I had gotten a basin with some beautiful smelling soap and a towel; and I decided to wash his feet before we consummated our relationship because inside his wedding ring, I had engraved to serve one another. So, that was just this thing that I was going to do annually\u2014a memento of my love for him and his love for me.\n\nThis all came out right before our first anniversary; and I remember\u2014my heartache when I looked in the cupboard and saw that basin up there and those towels. It\u2019s like every year on my anniversary, my heart ached because I realized how far we were from that moment \/ how far our marriage was from being able to share deeply.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If a wife came to me and said, \u201cMy husband just confessed to me that he has an issue with porn,\u201d part of me would be hopeful and encouraged because he confessed it. It\u2019s the wife who discovers it, and the husband has been trying to keep it hidden\u2014I\u2019m more concerned about that than I am about the man who, at some point, feels burdened enough to have to come and confess it.\n\nDid that confession bring any hope to you? Did you think, \u201cOkay; he\u2019s wrestling with this; but he\u2019s being honest with it. He\u2019s getting help. There\u2019s a path forward for us\u201d?\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Maybe, this is because I\u2019m a female, and I was on the other side of betrayal; but I didn\u2019t feel hope. I felt hit. I felt sucker punched. I felt shocked. It immediately went to\u2014\u201cWhy is he going elsewhere? What\u2019s wrong with my body? Why am I not enough? How long has this been happening? Who did I marry? Are you kidding me?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019re petrified for the future.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Yes\u2014scared out of my mind. It was a moment of tremendous heartache. If you ask any woman where they were when they first were told about it or discovered it, they can tell you where they were at, they can tell you what they were wearing. I mean you probably have your own story; right? It\u2019s that poignant. It\u2019s a trauma event.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Why is that? Like, what happens to us? What is it that rocks our world?\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> You know trauma comes out of situations that are out of our control\u2014something that we didn\u2019t see. Post-traumatic stress comes with things that feel like we\u2019re going to lose our life \/ our livelihood \/ our safety. So, it\u2019s fear based, and it comes out of not knowing where to go. Like, if I was doing something\u2014and I don\u2019t know, with you, Dave\u2014with you acting out and knowing about it, your story talks about shame\u2014right?\u2014to have to get up and preach. You knew what you were doing. You were making \/ doing these internal games\u2014right?\u2014of denial in your own mind.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> But you still acted knowingly. Those that are acting out know they are acting out. It\u2019s not like you go into some la-la land and then do it, and it\u2019s out of your control. You know it. So, that\u2019s different; but when there is not consent \/ when I\u2019m not consenting \/ when you haven\u2019t come to me and said, \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to look at porn\u201d \/ \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to have an affair with somebody at work,\u201d we didn\u2019t know about it. So, it comes to us by surprise. That\u2019s why it becomes a trauma event for us.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s not just about betrayal; but now, trust\u2014do we have trust in our relationship? What other things don\u2019t I know about?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s it. I don\u2019t even know you. That\u2019s the feeling.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know you.\n\nThen, when you think you know\u2014so, Conner and I\u2014painfully, we went through losing the church platform because of it which was interesting. I kept a secret for four years until, actually, got depressed. It led to a clinical depression for me.\n\nWe were at a camp. It was a family camp, actually, that we would go to every year; and I remember staying in my room because I just couldn\u2019t fake it one more time. A young gal came up to me and knocked on the door because she wanted me to go to dinner with her. She said, \u201cHey, Sheri, would you like to join me for dinner?\u201d I kind of cracked the door open. She was just darling.\n\nI said, \u201cHoney, I\u2019m not feeling good. So, I\u2019m going to go ahead and stay in my room.\u00a0 Maybe, tomorrow.\u201d She looked\u2014put her head down and said, \u201cOkay,\u201d and as she was walking away, she turned around and looked at me and said, \u201cMrs. Sheri, I hope when I grow up someday I marry someone just like Conner.\u201d\n\nYou could have hit me with a two by four. I mean I wanted to say, \u201cNo; run\u201d; you know? But nobody knew my secret. So, that was the weekend where I decided to tell. I told one of the pastors on staff, and it was like dominos beginning to fall\u2014dum, dum, dum\u2014one right on another. It landed us in the pastor\u2019s office. There was somewhat of an intervention.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Sheri, had this continued? He hadn\u2019t found any recovery? Hadn\u2019t found any success?\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> No recovery.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Was it getting worse?\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Yes. The porn was continuing on even though I had pleaded with him\u2014\u201cStop. Don\u2019t do it. This hurts me\u201d; but it was continuing on. So, we went into treatment. We were there a couple of months, and it was a treatment center for pastors\u2019 wives with issues. We came out of that, and things continued on. We got into therapy. We were in therapy for about four years going two to three times a week as a couple \/ as individuals. What I didn\u2019t know is that during that time he had had multiple affairs.\n\nSo, even while we were going through that, he continued to act out \/ was under the cover about it. My therapist didn\u2019t know. I think there are some reasons that we ended up down that road.\n\nOne, there was one therapist who was trying to hold all pieces\u2014doing the couples worth, meeting with him, how can he be honest with somebody when he feels like that person is going to tell my wife. There needs to be some space around that. Somebody who is actually\u2014I now believe\u2014certified in sex addiction therapy. They are called C-SATs. They have spent a ton of training on how to work with this because it\u2019s like a slippery bar of soap when you want someone to know what\u2019s going on.\n\nSo, I think it\u2019s important that people know where to go and how to get there; but I think not knowing and then finding out there were affairs \/ there were prostitutes\u2014all of that\u2014was such a heartache for me because I was in it to win it. I was pressing on \/ pressing through. I was willing to put everything down on the table. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever fought so hard for any human being in my life because I really wanted God to have victory in this marriage.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you seeing any indication from him of brokenness \/ of\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Repentance?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When he\u2019d get caught, did he mourn the fact that he had been involved in these kinds of things?\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> So, I have a memory that is really tender of him, not only mourning, but snot-nose crying in one of the rooms of our house where he was so caught up in the pain of all of this that he was heartbroken over it. That had been\u2014you know, we had been fighting this for a number of years; but at that point, my heart had grown cold because he was continuing to act out. I didn\u2019t know about the affairs yet; but I could see that he was sad, but still acting out.\n\nHe didn\u2019t go to the 12 step group. He didn\u2019t get into recovery that way. He said, \u201cIt\u2019s not that bad. I\u2019m not that bad.\u201d Dave, you probably hear that from so many guys. It\u2019s like they have a problem with porn, and they\u2019ll say, \u201cIt\u2019s not that bad\u201d; but him believing that\u2014his own denial over the problem only took him deeper into the pain of it all and deeper into deception.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What I have discovered\u2014I\u2019m sure you see it a lot more than I do, and Bob, you probably as well\u2014is when the guy comes in to talk to me; and it\u2019s interesting. In my church, they want to talk to me because I\u2019ve said it from the stage that I had\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That you had struggled years ago.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014struggled, and I know the struggle. So, they\u2019ll set up an appointment. It got to the point where it almost became laughable because the guy will be stumbling around. I\u2019ll say, \u201cOkay; I know why you are here. Let\u2019s talk about your porn problem.\u201d It\u2019s like\u2014one guy looked at me and said, \u201cNo; I just want to grow with Jesus. What are you talking about? My porn problem?\u201d I\u2019m like\u2014\u201cOh, that\u2019s good to hear\u201d; but what I\u2019ve discovered\u2014two things.\n\nOne, usually what they tell me is half, maybe, of how bad it is.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> That\u2019s true.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know if they say, \u201cI looked at porn once this week,\u201d I just in my head, probably, ten times. It\u2019s\u2014again\u2014\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> It\u2019s so true.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014I\u2019m being a little pessimistic with that.\n\nThen, number two is you can start to see the real signs of repentance. Again, it\u2019s not whether they cry or not. It\u2019s whether they own it, like\u2014\u201cThis is a problem,\u201d \u201cI\u2019ve got a problem,\u201d \u201cI need to take the next step\u201d\u2014which it sounds like your husband didn\u2019t quite get there\u2014\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014if ever.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. Let me just point out here because this is tied to exactly what you\u2019re saying when David in Psalm 51 confesses his sexual sin, he says to God\u2014\u201cagainst You and You only have I sinned.\u201d I think guys who think, \u201cI can manage this\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014think, \u201cWell, yes, I know I\u2019ve sinned against my wife. I know I\u2019ve sinned against other people\u2014my kids\u201d\u2014or even they might get to the point where they say, \u201cI realize this is sinning against the picture I\u2019ve been looking at. The young woman who is in that picture\u2014I\u2019m sinning against her.\u201d\n\nBut when you pull back and go\u2014\u201cI\u2019m sinning against God \/ I\u2019m rebelling against Him \/ I\u2019m shaking my fist at Him and saying, \u2018Your standards \/ Your ways are wrong, and I\u2019m going to take control of my own life sexually and violate Your standards\u2019\u201d\u2014until you get to the point where you go\u2014\u201cOh, this is rebellion against a holy God \/ the Jesus who died for me; I\u2019m telling Him, \u2018I don\u2019t care; I\u2019m going to do what I want to do,\u2019\u201d\u2014you kind of have to get to that point before you go\u2014\u201cThis is a bigger deal.\u201d\n\nI remember somebody I was talking to who was struggling with this issue, and he said, \u201cFinally, a guy took me to aside\u201d; and he said, \u201cSo, what you\u2019re telling me is you really love your sin.\u201d The guy, for the first time, was like\u2014\u201cI guess I do.\u201d You love your sin more than you love Jesus. It sounds like your husband felt worldly sorrow; but maybe, never got to the point where he said, \u201cI\u2019m sinning against a holy God who gave His Son for me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Even desperate enough to, not only fall before God on your face in repentance, but to take that next step of really getting help \/ of really seeking it and being consistent. It never came.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> It didn\u2019t come. It didn\u2019t come. I think\u2014you know part of that\u2014and I\u2019m not making excuses for anything right here; but when you understand the brain and how it works, you\u2019re looking at porn like that as long as you do, the brain changes. This is internal chemicals in your brain\u2014like adrenaline\u2014oxytocin which is the bonding chemical. It\u2019s the same chemical that\u2019s used when moms are breastfeeding their kids; right? It\u2019s a bonding chemical.\n\nThere are these chemicals that are released in your brain which bond you to this act. So, I do think because his addiction\u2014I feel like it went into an addictive form, and he wasn\u2019t being honest and addressing it, being willing to go through the steps that are needed. It wasn\u2019t something he could pray away. God knows he tried; but it was something that was going to take some hard work and rolling up his sleeves and accountability. It\u2019s not easy to break out of it.\n\nAnd I\u2019m not saying that there aren\u2019t guys who say, \u201cI stopped, and I stopped.\u201d I\u2019m not\u2014it\u2019s possible; but for many, many, it takes a lot of hard work and honesty and transparency.\n\nThere is something called <em>teshuva<\/em> which owning and atoning; and there is a series of steps in the <em>teshuva<\/em> that I love. The first one is recognize which is recognizing it\u2019s a problem. The second one is revealing it. It\u2019s revealing it to others in light of that. It\u2019s regretting what you\u2019re doing and moving into remorse. Then it\u2019s resolving to not do it again \/ to get the community around you to do the hard work to see what\u2019s underneath it.\n\nA lot of these guys have trauma histories. They\u2019ve grown up with dads that hit them \/ beat them; or there were sexual situations; or maybe, they weren\u2019t seen in a family. There are traumas of omission. I talk about, in my book, traumas of commission and traumas of omission. There were things they didn\u2019t get when they were growing up. So, they are looking for love in all the wrong places. Whatever it is that\u2019s got to be treated as well, oftentimes.\n\nThen repairing the relationship\u2014being willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild the trust like you mentioned earlier, Bob, and repair that relationship. Then there is restoration, and that process is <em>shalam<\/em>. It means restoring that person to new\u2014taking you back, restoring safety in your relationship, making sure that you have dealt with your sacred trust past, and you\u2019re rebuilding the relationship.\n\nSo, I love that owing and atoning. It\u2019s not just one thing. It\u2019s a series of things that helps you get to the other side of this.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> First of all, way to go. That sounds like a preacher. They are all \u201cR\u201ds. That could be a nice sermon; you know?\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Well, I wish I would have thought of the idea. I wish it was mine, but it\u2019s not; but it is something we can use; right?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean\u2014\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Isn\u2019t that beautiful?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I hear that, and I don\u2019t know what Ann is thinking; but I\u2019m like\u2014\u201cI took that journey.\u201d\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I really did. It was that. Those first couple of steps are huge. Recognize\u2014we\u2019ve talked about that today\u2014but reveal is a biggie. It isn\u2019t just your spouse\u2014although that is critical.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Or Jesus. It\u2019s not just God.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> True.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It really is God first, your spouse, then I had to have a guy; and I actually had several men that I said, \u201cThis is a problem. I need help. Will you walk this journey with me?\u201d The ones that get to recovery and get to restoration are the ones that will go take that journey.\n\nSo, I mean at the end of this program, it\u2019s like\u2014\u201cWho are you right now? Where are you right now? Are you willing to take a scary step that will be\u201d\u2014here is the thing I never knew. This is legacy. What was at stake was not just my recovery; but my legacy. It\u2019s that big. The decisions you are making today are so big you\u2019ve got to take the scary step to tell someone and start that journey.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to add too that there are so many more women now that are engaging in porn; and there is shame factor in that sometimes now because\u2014\u201cWait, I\u2019m a woman, and I\u2019m struggling with this. This is kind of weird.\u201d I think they can have that attitude; but I think all those same steps are really important and necessary.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And for folks who are struggling, we\u2019ve got resources on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. Sheri, your book is really for those who are recovering from the betrayal that has occurred and dealing with their own sense of shame; and they\u2019ve been betrayed: \u201cHow do I get my life together when this has traumatized me the way it has?\u201d\n\nWe\u2019ve got copies of Sheri\u2019s book, <em>Intimate Deception<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go on FamilyLifeToday.com to order your copy or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Our phone number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. As I mentioned, in addition to Sheri\u2019s book, <em>Intimate Deception<\/em>, we have other articles, podcasts, other resources available.\n\nIf you find yourself in a situation where sexual sin has become a part of your marriage and you\u2019re looking for help for yourself or to know how to deal with a spouse who is caught up in this, go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, for information about resources we have available here.\n\nNow, we want to be careful not to rush the holiday season here at FamilyLife; but we\u2019re also aware that a lot of people head into this time of year with a sense of anxiety or even dread because there are family relationships that are strained or fractured.\n\nHere at FamilyLife we\u2019ve put together a free e-book that we\u2019re calling <em>The Holiday Survival Guide<\/em>. It\u2019s designed to give you help and insight on how you can be spiritually prepared for what may be ahead as you meet with extended family members during the holidays\u2014insights on handling conflict with extended family members, ways to bond with sons-in-law or daughters-in-law, and tips on dealing with awkward family situations during the holidays.\n\nAgain, it\u2019s a free e-book. You can download it when you go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; and we hope you find it helpful as the holidays approach.\n\nWe also hope you can join us back again tomorrow. Sheri Keffer will be here to talk about the journey God has taken her on to bring about healing to the wounds of sexual betrayal she has experienced.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\n<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\n\n1"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:24:55"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["22.81M"],"filesize_raw":["23915329"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305460.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305460.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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Sheri Keffer reflects on her first husband's repeated porn use. Keffer, now a relationship therapist, talks about the post-traumatic stress she and other women experience when their husbands confess sexual sin.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-10-24.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, October 24<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Sheri Keffer says that opening up about the secrets in her marriage; and then fighting for her marriage, once those secrets were known, was the hardest thing she\u2019s ever had to do in her life. We\u2019ll hear more of her story today. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You guys have been transparent and honest about the fact that, Dave, there was a season in your marriage when porn was an issue.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ann, do you remember how you became aware porn was an issue?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When Dave and I were first married, I knew that he had struggles with his eyes. He would just watch beautiful women when I was standing right in front of him, which was concerning. We had a conversation about that because it brought up all of my insecurities; but then, later, I felt a rift in our relationship. I just\u2014I kept saying, \u201cI feel like we\u2019re not as close. I feel like something is separating us. What\u2019s going on?\u201d He would say, \u201cWe\u2019re fine. I don\u2019t even know what you\u2019re talking about\u201d; but I had this sense of disconnection.\n\nThen he had told me that when he was traveling with the Detroit Lions as their chaplain, he had just kind of browsed\u2014just for a few seconds even.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I mean\u2014so, first of all, I lied to her.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, I would come home from a trip of looking at 20\/30 seconds\u2014because back then there were no digital phones.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There was a TV box. It was so interesting to think\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> In a hotel room.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014about if I went\u2014if you went beyond five minutes, then, you bought the movie.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, I played this rationale in my head: \u201cI can watch 20 seconds.\u201d I\u2019ve got to get up and then preach to the Detroit Lion players. There was this turmoil going on in my soul about\u2014\u201cI\u2019m a hypocrite\u201d\u2014but it was just a struggle. So, I lied for a while. Then, when I finally told her, that\u2019s when we started recovery\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014when I was finally honest about it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No one was talking about this back then.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No one.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I went crazy.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You felt betrayed?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Felt betrayed. I felt lied to. I felt like I couldn\u2019t trust him. It really did trigger all of my old abuse. All of the sudden, that resurfaced. My insecurities resurfaced. My thoughts of\u2014\u201cIt must be me\u201d \/ \u201cSomething is wrong with me\u201d\u2014all resurfaced, and we were both a mess. We really didn\u2019t have anywhere to turn or anyone to talk to. I wish this book would have been written back then.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No one was talking about it.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The book you are talking about is <em>Intimate Deception: Healing the Wounds of Sexually Betrayal<\/em>. The author of the book is our guest this week, Dr. Sheri Keffer. Sheri, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Thanks. It\u2019s great to be back with you. It\u2019s funny. I\u2014when you said his looking brought up your insecurities, the thought that went through my mind as a person who also experienced a husband that would look at different women\u2014is how do you know that him looking didn\u2019t cause your insecurities? Think about it; right?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> I mean, because when we\u2019re married and we think things are going good\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> \u2014we can feel comfortable. It doesn\u2019t mean we don\u2019t insecurities from our past, but we feel secure in that relationship; but when you\u2019re looking at somebody else, all of the sudden, I feel unsafe.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s interesting because when Dave and I had written our book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, Fox News picked up some pieces from our book; and they were putting them on the website every week. So, this story of Dave\u2019s neck problem came across the website; and man, this one guy, personally, messaged us telling me\u2014\u201cThis is your problem! You\u2019re insecure! This is what a guy does.\u201d I\u2019m telling you this guy was hot, and he wanted to publicly debate me.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He wanted to debate her on TV. He said\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And be paid for it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI\u2019m going to go on TV and debate you.\u201d [Laughter] Pretty interesting.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Girl, let\u2019s show up for that show. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I could bring you with me.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Sheri, this is what your clinical practice as a therapist\u2014this is your focus\u2014is helping people deal with the wounds that come from betrayal, sexual betrayal in a marriage relationship. Part of the reason it is your professional practice is because it\u2019s your personal story. You shared that you met your husband when you were in Bible college. He was a pastor. You had a long-distance relationship. You eventually were married.\n\nThere was, maybe, one clue before you got married that there might be something going on. He had called a 900 number, and he told you about that. Then six months into the marriage, you started to sense something getting in the way of your relational connectedness.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The same kind of thing that Dave and Ann were talking about.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Very similar.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When was the first time you put the pieces together and thought, \u201cHe\u2019s doing more than calling 900 numbers here?\u201d\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Yes; so, it was probably eight or nine months into our marriage. He said he was in burnout\u2014okay\u2014because he was not feeling himself. He got into counseling and then started going to these groups. I didn\u2019t know what kind of groups they were; but eventually, before our first anniversary, he shared that he was going to these groups to take a look at his issue with porn. I was absolutely broadsided\u2014like sucker punched. I had no idea that he was looking at porn. It was so hidden. It\u2019s not like I found it on anything or looked\u2014saw it on his phone.\n\nBack then, it was different than it is now; but you know what\u2019s crazy? It takes me back to a story on our honeymoon night. Before we made love, I ended up doing something that I dreamt of doing\u2014is I had gotten a basin with some beautiful smelling soap and a towel; and I decided to wash his feet before we consummated our relationship because inside his wedding ring, I had engraved to serve one another. So, that was just this thing that I was going to do annually\u2014a memento of my love for him and his love for me.\n\nThis all came out right before our first anniversary; and I remember\u2014my heartache when I looked in the cupboard and saw that basin up there and those towels. It\u2019s like every year on my anniversary, my heart ached because I realized how far we were from that moment \/ how far our marriage was from being able to share deeply.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If a wife came to me and said, \u201cMy husband just confessed to me that he has an issue with porn,\u201d part of me would be hopeful and encouraged because he confessed it. It\u2019s the wife who discovers it, and the husband has been trying to keep it hidden\u2014I\u2019m more concerned about that than I am about the man who, at some point, feels burdened enough to have to come and confess it.\n\nDid that confession bring any hope to you? Did you think, \u201cOkay; he\u2019s wrestling with this; but he\u2019s being honest with it. He\u2019s getting help. There\u2019s a path forward for us\u201d?\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Maybe, this is because I\u2019m a female, and I was on the other side of betrayal; but I didn\u2019t feel hope. I felt hit. I felt sucker punched. I felt shocked. It immediately went to\u2014\u201cWhy is he going elsewhere? What\u2019s wrong with my body? Why am I not enough? How long has this been happening? Who did I marry? Are you kidding me?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019re petrified for the future.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Yes\u2014scared out of my mind. It was a moment of tremendous heartache. If you ask any woman where they were when they first were told about it or discovered it, they can tell you where they were at, they can tell you what they were wearing. I mean you probably have your own story; right? It\u2019s that poignant. It\u2019s a trauma event.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Why is that? Like, what happens to us? What is it that rocks our world?\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> You know trauma comes out of situations that are out of our control\u2014something that we didn\u2019t see. Post-traumatic stress comes with things that feel like we\u2019re going to lose our life \/ our livelihood \/ our safety. So, it\u2019s fear based, and it comes out of not knowing where to go. Like, if I was doing something\u2014and I don\u2019t know, with you, Dave\u2014with you acting out and knowing about it, your story talks about shame\u2014right?\u2014to have to get up and preach. You knew what you were doing. You were making \/ doing these internal games\u2014right?\u2014of denial in your own mind.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> But you still acted knowingly. Those that are acting out know they are acting out. It\u2019s not like you go into some la-la land and then do it, and it\u2019s out of your control. You know it. So, that\u2019s different; but when there is not consent \/ when I\u2019m not consenting \/ when you haven\u2019t come to me and said, \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to look at porn\u201d \/ \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to have an affair with somebody at work,\u201d we didn\u2019t know about it. So, it comes to us by surprise. That\u2019s why it becomes a trauma event for us.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s not just about betrayal; but now, trust\u2014do we have trust in our relationship? What other things don\u2019t I know about?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s it. I don\u2019t even know you. That\u2019s the feeling.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know you.\n\nThen, when you think you know\u2014so, Conner and I\u2014painfully, we went through losing the church platform because of it which was interesting. I kept a secret for four years until, actually, got depressed. It led to a clinical depression for me.\n\nWe were at a camp. It was a family camp, actually, that we would go to every year; and I remember staying in my room because I just couldn\u2019t fake it one more time. A young gal came up to me and knocked on the door because she wanted me to go to dinner with her. She said, \u201cHey, Sheri, would you like to join me for dinner?\u201d I kind of cracked the door open. She was just darling.\n\nI said, \u201cHoney, I\u2019m not feeling good. So, I\u2019m going to go ahead and stay in my room.\u00a0 Maybe, tomorrow.\u201d She looked\u2014put her head down and said, \u201cOkay,\u201d and as she was walking away, she turned around and looked at me and said, \u201cMrs. Sheri, I hope when I grow up someday I marry someone just like Conner.\u201d\n\nYou could have hit me with a two by four. I mean I wanted to say, \u201cNo; run\u201d; you know? But nobody knew my secret. So, that was the weekend where I decided to tell. I told one of the pastors on staff, and it was like dominos beginning to fall\u2014dum, dum, dum\u2014one right on another. It landed us in the pastor\u2019s office. There was somewhat of an intervention.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Sheri, had this continued? He hadn\u2019t found any recovery? Hadn\u2019t found any success?\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> No recovery.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Was it getting worse?\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Yes. The porn was continuing on even though I had pleaded with him\u2014\u201cStop. Don\u2019t do it. This hurts me\u201d; but it was continuing on. So, we went into treatment. We were there a couple of months, and it was a treatment center for pastors\u2019 wives with issues. We came out of that, and things continued on. We got into therapy. We were in therapy for about four years going two to three times a week as a couple \/ as individuals. What I didn\u2019t know is that during that time he had had multiple affairs.\n\nSo, even while we were going through that, he continued to act out \/ was under the cover about it. My therapist didn\u2019t know. I think there are some reasons that we ended up down that road.\n\nOne, there was one therapist who was trying to hold all pieces\u2014doing the couples worth, meeting with him, how can he be honest with somebody when he feels like that person is going to tell my wife. There needs to be some space around that. Somebody who is actually\u2014I now believe\u2014certified in sex addiction therapy. They are called C-SATs. They have spent a ton of training on how to work with this because it\u2019s like a slippery bar of soap when you want someone to know what\u2019s going on.\n\nSo, I think it\u2019s important that people know where to go and how to get there; but I think not knowing and then finding out there were affairs \/ there were prostitutes\u2014all of that\u2014was such a heartache for me because I was in it to win it. I was pressing on \/ pressing through. I was willing to put everything down on the table. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever fought so hard for any human being in my life because I really wanted God to have victory in this marriage.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you seeing any indication from him of brokenness \/ of\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Repentance?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When he\u2019d get caught, did he mourn the fact that he had been involved in these kinds of things?\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> So, I have a memory that is really tender of him, not only mourning, but snot-nose crying in one of the rooms of our house where he was so caught up in the pain of all of this that he was heartbroken over it. That had been\u2014you know, we had been fighting this for a number of years; but at that point, my heart had grown cold because he was continuing to act out. I didn\u2019t know about the affairs yet; but I could see that he was sad, but still acting out.\n\nHe didn\u2019t go to the 12 step group. He didn\u2019t get into recovery that way. He said, \u201cIt\u2019s not that bad. I\u2019m not that bad.\u201d Dave, you probably hear that from so many guys. It\u2019s like they have a problem with porn, and they\u2019ll say, \u201cIt\u2019s not that bad\u201d; but him believing that\u2014his own denial over the problem only took him deeper into the pain of it all and deeper into deception.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What I have discovered\u2014I\u2019m sure you see it a lot more than I do, and Bob, you probably as well\u2014is when the guy comes in to talk to me; and it\u2019s interesting. In my church, they want to talk to me because I\u2019ve said it from the stage that I had\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That you had struggled years ago.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014struggled, and I know the struggle. So, they\u2019ll set up an appointment. It got to the point where it almost became laughable because the guy will be stumbling around. I\u2019ll say, \u201cOkay; I know why you are here. Let\u2019s talk about your porn problem.\u201d It\u2019s like\u2014one guy looked at me and said, \u201cNo; I just want to grow with Jesus. What are you talking about? My porn problem?\u201d I\u2019m like\u2014\u201cOh, that\u2019s good to hear\u201d; but what I\u2019ve discovered\u2014two things.\n\nOne, usually what they tell me is half, maybe, of how bad it is.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> That\u2019s true.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know if they say, \u201cI looked at porn once this week,\u201d I just in my head, probably, ten times. It\u2019s\u2014again\u2014\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> It\u2019s so true.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014I\u2019m being a little pessimistic with that.\n\nThen, number two is you can start to see the real signs of repentance. Again, it\u2019s not whether they cry or not. It\u2019s whether they own it, like\u2014\u201cThis is a problem,\u201d \u201cI\u2019ve got a problem,\u201d \u201cI need to take the next step\u201d\u2014which it sounds like your husband didn\u2019t quite get there\u2014\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014if ever.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. Let me just point out here because this is tied to exactly what you\u2019re saying when David in Psalm 51 confesses his sexual sin, he says to God\u2014\u201cagainst You and You only have I sinned.\u201d I think guys who think, \u201cI can manage this\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014think, \u201cWell, yes, I know I\u2019ve sinned against my wife. I know I\u2019ve sinned against other people\u2014my kids\u201d\u2014or even they might get to the point where they say, \u201cI realize this is sinning against the picture I\u2019ve been looking at. The young woman who is in that picture\u2014I\u2019m sinning against her.\u201d\n\nBut when you pull back and go\u2014\u201cI\u2019m sinning against God \/ I\u2019m rebelling against Him \/ I\u2019m shaking my fist at Him and saying, \u2018Your standards \/ Your ways are wrong, and I\u2019m going to take control of my own life sexually and violate Your standards\u2019\u201d\u2014until you get to the point where you go\u2014\u201cOh, this is rebellion against a holy God \/ the Jesus who died for me; I\u2019m telling Him, \u2018I don\u2019t care; I\u2019m going to do what I want to do,\u2019\u201d\u2014you kind of have to get to that point before you go\u2014\u201cThis is a bigger deal.\u201d\n\nI remember somebody I was talking to who was struggling with this issue, and he said, \u201cFinally, a guy took me to aside\u201d; and he said, \u201cSo, what you\u2019re telling me is you really love your sin.\u201d The guy, for the first time, was like\u2014\u201cI guess I do.\u201d You love your sin more than you love Jesus. It sounds like your husband felt worldly sorrow; but maybe, never got to the point where he said, \u201cI\u2019m sinning against a holy God who gave His Son for me.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Even desperate enough to, not only fall before God on your face in repentance, but to take that next step of really getting help \/ of really seeking it and being consistent. It never came.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> It didn\u2019t come. It didn\u2019t come. I think\u2014you know part of that\u2014and I\u2019m not making excuses for anything right here; but when you understand the brain and how it works, you\u2019re looking at porn like that as long as you do, the brain changes. This is internal chemicals in your brain\u2014like adrenaline\u2014oxytocin which is the bonding chemical. It\u2019s the same chemical that\u2019s used when moms are breastfeeding their kids; right? It\u2019s a bonding chemical.\n\nThere are these chemicals that are released in your brain which bond you to this act. So, I do think because his addiction\u2014I feel like it went into an addictive form, and he wasn\u2019t being honest and addressing it, being willing to go through the steps that are needed. It wasn\u2019t something he could pray away. God knows he tried; but it was something that was going to take some hard work and rolling up his sleeves and accountability. It\u2019s not easy to break out of it.\n\nAnd I\u2019m not saying that there aren\u2019t guys who say, \u201cI stopped, and I stopped.\u201d I\u2019m not\u2014it\u2019s possible; but for many, many, it takes a lot of hard work and honesty and transparency.\n\nThere is something called <em>teshuva<\/em> which owning and atoning; and there is a series of steps in the <em>teshuva<\/em> that I love. The first one is recognize which is recognizing it\u2019s a problem. The second one is revealing it. It\u2019s revealing it to others in light of that. It\u2019s regretting what you\u2019re doing and moving into remorse. Then it\u2019s resolving to not do it again \/ to get the community around you to do the hard work to see what\u2019s underneath it.\n\nA lot of these guys have trauma histories. They\u2019ve grown up with dads that hit them \/ beat them; or there were sexual situations; or maybe, they weren\u2019t seen in a family. There are traumas of omission. I talk about, in my book, traumas of commission and traumas of omission. There were things they didn\u2019t get when they were growing up. So, they are looking for love in all the wrong places. Whatever it is that\u2019s got to be treated as well, oftentimes.\n\nThen repairing the relationship\u2014being willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild the trust like you mentioned earlier, Bob, and repair that relationship. Then there is restoration, and that process is <em>shalam<\/em>. It means restoring that person to new\u2014taking you back, restoring safety in your relationship, making sure that you have dealt with your sacred trust past, and you\u2019re rebuilding the relationship.\n\nSo, I love that owing and atoning. It\u2019s not just one thing. It\u2019s a series of things that helps you get to the other side of this.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> First of all, way to go. That sounds like a preacher. They are all \u201cR\u201ds. That could be a nice sermon; you know?\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Well, I wish I would have thought of the idea. I wish it was mine, but it\u2019s not; but it is something we can use; right?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean\u2014\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Isn\u2019t that beautiful?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I hear that, and I don\u2019t know what Ann is thinking; but I\u2019m like\u2014\u201cI took that journey.\u201d\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I really did. It was that. Those first couple of steps are huge. Recognize\u2014we\u2019ve talked about that today\u2014but reveal is a biggie. It isn\u2019t just your spouse\u2014although that is critical.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Or Jesus. It\u2019s not just God.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Sheri:<\/strong> True.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It really is God first, your spouse, then I had to have a guy; and I actually had several men that I said, \u201cThis is a problem. I need help. Will you walk this journey with me?\u201d The ones that get to recovery and get to restoration are the ones that will go take that journey.\n\nSo, I mean at the end of this program, it\u2019s like\u2014\u201cWho are you right now? Where are you right now? Are you willing to take a scary step that will be\u201d\u2014here is the thing I never knew. This is legacy. What was at stake was not just my recovery; but my legacy. It\u2019s that big. The decisions you are making today are so big you\u2019ve got to take the scary step to tell someone and start that journey.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to add too that there are so many more women now that are engaging in porn; and there is shame factor in that sometimes now because\u2014\u201cWait, I\u2019m a woman, and I\u2019m struggling with this. This is kind of weird.\u201d I think they can have that attitude; but I think all those same steps are really important and necessary.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And for folks who are struggling, we\u2019ve got resources on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. Sheri, your book is really for those who are recovering from the betrayal that has occurred and dealing with their own sense of shame; and they\u2019ve been betrayed: \u201cHow do I get my life together when this has traumatized me the way it has?\u201d\n\nWe\u2019ve got copies of Sheri\u2019s book, <em>Intimate Deception<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can go on FamilyLifeToday.com to order your copy or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Our phone number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. As I mentioned, in addition to Sheri\u2019s book, <em>Intimate Deception<\/em>, we have other articles, podcasts, other resources available.\n\nIf you find yourself in a situation where sexual sin has become a part of your marriage and you\u2019re looking for help for yourself or to know how to deal with a spouse who is caught up in this, go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, for information about resources we have available here.\n\nNow, we want to be careful not to rush the holiday season here at FamilyLife; but we\u2019re also aware that a lot of people head into this time of year with a sense of anxiety or even dread because there are family relationships that are strained or fractured.\n\nHere at FamilyLife we\u2019ve put together a free e-book that we\u2019re calling <em>The Holiday Survival Guide<\/em>. It\u2019s designed to give you help and insight on how you can be spiritually prepared for what may be ahead as you meet with extended family members during the holidays\u2014insights on handling conflict with extended family members, ways to bond with sons-in-law or daughters-in-law, and tips on dealing with awkward family situations during the holidays.\n\nAgain, it\u2019s a free e-book. You can download it when you go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; and we hope you find it helpful as the holidays approach.\n\nWe also hope you can join us back again tomorrow. Sheri Keffer will be here to talk about the journey God has taken her on to bring about healing to the wounds of sexual betrayal she has experienced.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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