{"id":305382,"date":"2019-09-30T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2019-09-30T10:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/what-does-it-mean-to-be-wholly-a-woman\/"},"modified":"2024-10-08T00:16:58","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T04:16:58","slug":"what-does-it-mean-to-be-wholly-a-woman","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-does-it-mean-to-be-wholly-a-woman\/","title":{"rendered":"What Does It Mean to Be Wholly a Woman?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Abigail Dodds | Series: (A)Typical Woman | Author Abigail Dodds, a wife and mother to five, talks about the way men and women are inherently different from one another. It&#8217;s easy to generalize male and female characteristics, but we must be careful. Dodds, a self-proclaimed tomboy who likes sports, admits she doesn&#8217;t really fit the mold of a woman with a gentle and quiet spirit. The gifts of the Spirit, she reminds us&#8211;love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control&#8211;can be exhibited by all believers, regardless of gender.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tSign up for FamilyLife emails full of content to help you grow closer together and to God.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/subscriptions\/<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<br \/>\n \tFind Your Getaway at one of FamilyLife&#8217;s Weekend to Remember\u00ae marriage getaways.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/weekend-to-remember<br \/>\n \tHas the FamilyLife Today\u00ae podcast and resources helped you?\u00a0 Learn more about becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Author Abigail Dodds, a wife and mother to five, talks about the way men and women are inherently different from one another. But, the gifts of the Spirit, she reminds us, can be exhibited by all believers, regardless of gender.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-09-30.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:44","filesize":"24.48M","filesize_raw":"25665484","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2831,2093],"tags":[5315,6745,4001],"podcast_series":[8305],"cwp_profile":[9561],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305382","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-wives","category-women","tag-gender-differences","tag-gods-design-for-women","tag-women","podcast_series-atypical-woman","cwp_profile-abigail-dodds","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305382\/what-does-it-mean-to-be-wholly-a-woman","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305382\/what-does-it-mean-to-be-wholly-a-woman","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"fqNJzo9lO9\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-does-it-mean-to-be-wholly-a-woman\/\">What Does It Mean to Be Wholly a Woman?<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-does-it-mean-to-be-wholly-a-woman\/embed\/#?secret=fqNJzo9lO9\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;What Does It Mean to Be Wholly a Woman?&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"fqNJzo9lO9\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-09-30.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-09-30.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In Genesis 1, the Bible says that God created human beings as male and female. Abigail Dodds says that\u2019s at the core of what women need to understand about who they are as women.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>To be a woman means to have been created. Now, that sounds like nothing; right? It\u2019s kind of like saying \u201c\u2019X\u2019 is \u2018X.\u2019\u201d But I do believe this with all my heart, and I\u2019m just trying to say: \u201cWhat God has made in woman\u2014in that word even, as it defines what we are\u2014is itself fully valuable.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, September 30<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. Does the Bible give us a clear sense of the difference between men and women?\u2014and what are we to understand about how we were made differently? We\u2019re going to talk about that today with Abigail Dodds. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I just met our guest for today\u2019s program a little while ago, and I\u2019ll introduce her. Abigail Dodds is joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014welcome.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Thanks for having me.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re happy to have you here. I can already tell\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I know what you\u2019re going to say, Bob!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; let\u2019s see! Let\u2019s see!\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Oh boy; okay.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I know what you\u2019re going to say.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I can already tell\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014that Ann and Abigail are going to have a great conversation today.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s true\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Okay; that wasn\u2019t it?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that\u2019s not exactly what I was going to say.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Okay!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was going to say, \u201cI can already tell she is a very courageous woman, because just to tackle the subject she has tackled in this book, in this day, takes some courage\u201d; don\u2019t you think?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think it does take courage, and it takes conviction. This has to be a conviction for you to put your thoughts into words. Also, she\u2019s brave because she\u2019s left her five children [Laughter] that are from five to fifteen.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Maybe it\u2019s not brave; maybe it\u2019s just she\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; she needs a break?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>\u201cShe has a couple of screws loose.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Abigail is a writer; she lives in Minneapolis; married, with five kids; a regular contributor at Desiring God Ministries. The subject you\u2019ve decided to tackle is the subject of trying to come up with a biblical definition or understanding of womanhood and femininity.\n\nThe reason that I don\u2019t have to explain why that\u2019s so courageous\u2014to try to come up with that\u2014we have this cultural idea of what masculine and feminine are and, now, we have a backlash against the cultural\u2014saying, \u201cNo, the culture\u2014there shouldn\u2019t be <em>any<\/em> definition.\u201d You\u2019re trying to say, \u201cOkay; what does the Bible tell us about how men are different than women, and how can we embrace that and believe it?\u201d\n\nYou knew you were sailing into headwinds when you sat down to write it; didn\u2019t you?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Right; yes. I don\u2019t think you can live in this world and not know that you\u2019re tackling something that a lot of people maybe <em>don\u2019t<\/em> want to hear about or are very apprehensive about hearing about. I get that. I think I can be apprehensive when I pick up books on this topic, because there are so many ways to go wrong; and there are so many ways to step on people\u2019s toes, unintentionally.\n\nEven as you\u2019re trying very hard to say something true, and winsome, and godly, what you say might not line up with another person\u2019s lived experience or with damage that they\u2019ve had done to them in their experiences. To try and wade into those waters is difficult, <em>but<\/em> still necessary and just still so important\u2014that we understand that Christ applies to every single bit of our life\u2014and there\u2019s none of it we should leave unturned.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>One of my sons has coined a phrase\u2014I don\u2019t know if he invented it or if he heard somebody else use it\u2014but he talks about \u201cgenderalities.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> word.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Isn\u2019t it a good phrase?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s this idea that we have these preconceptions of what gender should be, based on cultural standards rather than on biblical standards. Some of this comes out of\u2014I think I\u2019ve told this before\u2014he was at a youth retreat when he was in junior high. The speaker was saying, \u201cYou know, guys and girls are different. Guys like sports, and girls like to read.\u201d\n\nOkay; so my son, who loved to read and wasn\u2019t particularly athletic, comes home and goes, \u201cSo, what am <em>I<\/em>?\u201d\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>I\u2019ve had those same experiences\u2014of hearing the people up front use some generality to describe what it means to be a woman\u2014and kind of come away, scratching my head, thinking: \u201cHuh. I don\u2019t know if I fit. Does that mean I\u2019m not a true woman, or does that mean I\u2019m not a biblical woman?\u201d\n\nThat\u2019s why we have to go back to the Word over and over and be looking at what God is saying about what He\u2019s created\/what He\u2019s made and what that means. You know, my grandmother was a farmer\u2019s wife; and she worked out in the hot sun. She is sweating and working alongside him. My mom, a farmer\u2019s daughter\u2014I mean, nothing gave her more joy than to take the chainsaw out and do some yardwork. [Laughter] These were wonderfully feminine, godly women, who were not afraid of some sweat and hard work. I just think we need to make room for those kinds of things when we talk about men and women.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I just want our listeners to hear: wonderful, godly, sweating, chainsaw-wielding women.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That can all work together; right?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That just described my wife.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I like that, actually; because Bob\u2019s wife, Mary Ann\u2014she loves to do yardwork and mowing the grass\u2014so do I. I think that doesn\u2019t mean we\u2019re not feminine.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>No, not a bit.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>I mean, the Proverbs 31 woman\u2014my goodness; I\u2019m pretty sure she was getting some sweat going. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, this woman was remarkable!\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When we first started working together on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Ann, I remember you saying, \u201cI wonder if this is going to work, because I don\u2019t think of myself as\u201d\u2014you said\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t think of myself as a typical woman.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I don\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What do you mean?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, I think that I was a tomboy, growing up. I liked to play outside with the boys. I liked to play football and all the sports\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And she\u2019s good at it. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes. I\u2019m also\u2014I think, when I was growing up, I thought of women as kind and as nurturing. I tend to be tough and loud; and I think: \u201cOh, I don\u2019t fit that mold. Am I immature?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And she\u2019s good at it. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Gentle, quiet spirit\u2014you go, \u201cI don\u2019t know that I have a gentle, quiet spirit.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; \u201cI don\u2019t know if I have that\u201d; right.\n\nThe first time I was at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>marriage conference, and they were talking about what a woman is\u2014and that nurturing part of her and she has\u2014those were the words of Scripture\u2014a \u201cquiet and gentle\u2026\u201d I thought, \u201cOh, I don\u2019t even fit into the Bible.\u201d I think some women feel like that; have you found that?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Yes, I think that\u2019s a very common way to feel. I know I, myself, have felt that\u2014like: \u201cWow; I have too many strong opinions; I have too much going on; I care too much about all the wrong things,\u201d\u2014things like that.\n\nI think, you know, for all of us, those principles set up\u2014of a gentle and quiet spirit that Peter is admonishing us to be like\u2014you know, that\u2019s something that we need to learn with an older woman\u2019s arm around our shoulder, who\u2019s telling us: \u201cI felt the same way when I heard that,\u201d and \u201cHere\u2019s how God grew me in that area, even so; isn\u2019t He wonderful to do that?\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s a really <em>hard<\/em> thing, I think, to hear\u2014sometimes from on high or from a certain way that\u2019s a little bit more detached\u2014where we think: \u201cI have no model for this,\u201d or \u201cI just don\u2019t know the steps forward. If that\u2019s what I\u2019m supposed to be, how do I get there?\u2014because I have more opinions than I know what to do with, and I want to say them all, and I\u00a0 want to be really adamant about all of them.\u201d\n\nTempering all those things, by the Holy Spirit\u2019s help and in the community of believers, is such a valuable thing and a way of growing in grace in those areas that we know are biblical, yet not feeling alienated, recognizing that, \u201cYes, my natural bent may be a certain way; yet, that doesn\u2019t mean I can\u2019t cultivate a gentle and quiet spirit by His grace.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You open the book with sort of an\u2014in my opinion, angst\u2014sort of a look at the womanhood in the church today. Talk about that a little bit, because that felt like it was coming from your soul.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That was the word that I felt, too, Dave; because you say, \u201cI\u2019m partly distressed over the state of Christian women,\u201d and that feels like an angst to me. What made you write that?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>We are facing winds from one direction or another. The culture is kind of blowing us all in one direction, in terms of: \u201cThere are zero differences between men and women. As a matter of fact, a man can be a woman; a woman can be a man.\u201d Sometimes those winds\u2014they generally are blowing into the church as well, but often we have our nose to those winds a little bit. We know they\u2019re there; so we are generally trying to push back to some degree, although I think we still can be\/all of us can be blind to some of them anyway.\n\nThen, sometimes what happens is we\u2019ll swing the pendulum the other way really hard to make sure that we <em>don\u2019t<\/em> think like the world\/act like the world, but we might not do it with our feet in the Scripture; it might just be a reaction. If that happens, then what you do end up with is legalism or things of that nature. That\u2019s sometimes the angst I feel\u2014is the different ways the pendulum is swinging, coming from different angles, can really make it hard to feel like: \u201cWhich way am I supposed to be pushing against?! What am I aiming <em>at<\/em>? What am I aiming <em>for<\/em>?\u201d\n\nMy burden was really just to say: \u201cWe can\u2019t talk about what it means to be a biblical woman without putting Christ in the conversation. We can\u2019t abstract Christ away from what it means to be a biblical woman. We need the new birth; we need to see ourselves as having been made <em>through<\/em> Christ and <em>for<\/em> Christ. Once we do that, our conversations have such a more sturdy footing. We can look to biblical examples of women and, all of a sudden, our feet are much more settled on solid ground when we\u2019ve really thought through what it means to be made through and for Christ.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But you know that 90\u2014I don\u2019t have the exact number here\u2014we\u2019ll say\n\n97 percent of what the Bible says about living the Christian life is not gender-specific.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, the fruit of the Spirit is for all of us; right?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The imperatives that follow the indicatives\u2014those are for all of us. There are only a few places where language gets gender-specific; and that\u2019s where you say, if the language of the Bible gets gender-specific, we ought to stop and go, \u201cOkay, why did he turn here and say, \u2018Women, this is for you\u2019\u201d?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Right. I try to give an analogy; like if your uncle writes a letter to the family and he\u2019s telling all about something that happened\u2014and he\u2019s: \u201cDear family,\u201d\u00a0 and it\u2019s a whole long letter\u2014and then he pauses at one point and says, \u201cAnd to my niece\u2026\u201d and then says something else and, then, continues on. Now, the main points of the letter are probably in the body that goes to all the family; but to the niece, she will pay certain attention to the part that\u2019s written with her name there.\n\nJust like the Bible, the gospel is the good news about Jesus Christ. The point of the Bible is to get us to Christ\u2014to know and reveal the person and work of Christ\/that\u2019s how we know the Father\u2014that\u2019s the point. Yet, there are really specific ways that that applies to men and women that the biblical authors don\u2019t hold back on. It can\u2019t be received, though, without understanding that bigger piece. We will not love anything in the Bible unless our old heart has been taken out and a new heart put in.\n\nThat was another thing I really wanted to lay the foundation for\u2014is without the new birth\/without a new heart, this will not\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014make sense.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, the person, who is just thinking, \u201cGalatians 3:28,\u201d right now, they\u2019re just going: \u201cBut it says \u2018There\u2019s neither male nor female\u201d\u2014these distinctions that you\u2019re trying to impose\u2014in Christ, the distinctions go away,\u201d and \u201cWomen should have the freedom to be, and to express, and not\u2014the boundaries between men and women have been dissolved in Christ.\u201d\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Well, I <em>love<\/em> that passage from Galatians; and I don\u2019t like it when people pit Scriptures against each other\u2014like, \u201cWell, this is the Scripture that people over here like to use; but we kind of stay away from it because we\u2019re afraid it might undermine our\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The proof text wars?\u2014yes. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cThis one might undermine our point of view.\u201d\n\nI think, what an incredible gift that\u2014yes, in Christ\u2014I am a co-heir. The way I understand that is\u2014it\u2019s not that distinction vanishes. In heaven, we know that it will be every tribe, tongue, people, and nation\u2014the distinction will still be there, in that sense, in terms of tribes, tongues, peoples, and nations. That\u2019s the way I tend to think of it is\u2014it\u2019s this diversity brought to unity in that we are all heirs, together, with Christ but not that that flattens everything about us.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Equal value, equal worth, equal inheritors, equally loved by God; with, still, God-given distinctions that are a part of who we are.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I mean, the distinctions\u2014and I can feel it as you talk about womanhood\u2014it\u2019s in your subtitle: <em>Free, Whole, and Called in Christ<\/em>. I want to hear what <em>you<\/em> would say, as a woman, who\u2019s <em>wholly<\/em> woman. I think Bob and I probably understand manhood. Do we understand womanhood?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, honestly, I\u2019ve been here for more than 25 years. To ask the question, \u201cCome up with a biblical definition of masculinity and femininity,\u201d is one of those things that we keep coming back to\u2014not wanting to go too far and not wanting to blur what the Bible teaches\u2014just find what\u2019s the sweet spot. That\u2019s why, when I saw this book, I said: \u201cI\u2019m glad Abigail\u2019s figured it out. We\u2019ll get her here\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And she\u2019s bold enough to write about it; exactly!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>To Dave\u2019s point, if you had to come up with that one sentence, \u201cHere\u2019s what it means to be wholly a woman,\u201d\u2014w-h-o-l-l-y a woman\u2014what would you say?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>To be made wholly a woman is simply to be created by God as a woman. Now that sounds like nothing; right? It\u2019s kind of like saying, \u201c\u2019X\u2019 is \u2018X,\u2019\u201d but I\u2019m not trying to tell you what the attributes of a Christian woman are; because I think we can find those in the Scripture. But when we ask the question, \u201cWhat is it to be a woman?\u201d I simply want to say something so foundational, because our culture is saying that to be made a woman isn\u2019t a woman.\n\nUnless we start with: \u201cTo be a woman means to have been created,\u201d that means you\u2019re a creature; it means you didn\u2019t make yourself; and it means you don\u2019t decide what you are. It means to be created by God as a woman. That has implications for your body; it has implications for the instructions that you\u2019re given in Scripture; and certainly there is a deeper essence to that\u2014that, you\u2019re right, I\u2019m not going to be able to put words to.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s also in His image\u2014\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014so we bear qualities of God\/that we represent Him, which is beautiful\u2014that are distinct and can be different from men.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>We don\u2019t always embrace and, yet, God is reveling in His creation.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is a conundrum; and we have to be careful about being too boxy and saying, \u201cFemininity means this; and if you\u2019re not this, you\u2019re not feminine,\u201d because that may depend on: \u201cIn what environment is this happening?\u201d\u2014right?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Here\u2019s another question for you: \u201cDo you feel free to be wholly woman in the culture and in the church?\u201d\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Well, I think I would say, \u201cYes; I feel completely set free in Christ to be exactly as He\u2019s made me.\u201d I feel that I don\u2019t think you\u2019ll have the freedom piece until you\u2019ve had new birth. I would say being wholly woman\u2014whole\u2014even if you aren\u2019t a believer, is something that we can\u2019t get around.\n\nOne of the things that gets said in the church is: \u201cI don\u2019t like it when people treat me as just a woman. I want you to see me as a human,\u201d or \u201cI don\u2019t like to be treated as just a woman. I want you to see me as a person.\u201d Now, to that, I would say, \u201cAmen to treating people as people\u201d; but the part of that that misses something really valuable is that to be a woman is to be fully human. We shouldn\u2019t talk about the word, \u201cwoman,\u201d as though it\u2019s small and degrading but \u201cIf I want to treat someone like they\u2019re important, well then, I\u2019ll treat them more like a human, or a person, or a man.\u201d\n\nNo! I would like it for everyone to treat me as a woman, and let that be as big as it really is\u2014it\u2019s a full reality. I\u2019m a human, as a woman; and so you should treat me accordingly, not as though being a woman is only the small slice of specifics. \u201cBut if you were going to treat me really well, then you would treat me like a person,\u201d\u2014well, why not just treat me as a woman, and then you decide that that is a good thing; it is a valuable thing.\n\nWe get into these semantics because we are trying to be seen as valuable. I\u2019m just trying to say, \u201cWhat God has made in woman\u2014in that word even, as it defines what we are\u2014is itself fully valuable.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, do you feel free, Ann, to be a whole woman and to embrace biblical femininity in the church and in the culture?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I feel total freedom in my relationship with Christ. I feel like He celebrates me; I feel like He complements my gifts and my strengths. However, I don\u2019t always feel that freedom in the church or in culture.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You don\u2019t feel like everybody else is giving you that freedom?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; I\u2019m always thinking: \u201cWhat is this person\u2026? What is this church\u2026? Will they celebrate me as well?\u201d Or the culture: \u201cAre they celebrating me to the point where it\u2019s an idolization of me being a woman?\u201d It\u2019s a tricky path to walk; and yet I do know, in Christ, He celebrates me.\n\nI think, culturally speaking, when Jesus walked the earth, it was a different day. There were many Hebrew scholars that wouldn\u2019t even believe that women had a soul. You have Jesus walk onto the scene, where He is elevating women and even using them in His teaching\u2014John 4, with the woman at the well\u2014that was unheard of, that He would not only speak to a Samaritan woman, but He would have a conversation and even ask her for water. He would become unclean.\n\nYes, it\u2019s a tricky day; and yet, a <em>beautiful<\/em> day to be alive as a woman. And the place called America is very different from other parts of the world.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m hearing two big ideas out of the conversation we\u2019ve had today\u2014maybe three. One is that the first thing in understanding what it means to be a woman or a man is to experience the new birth.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Apart from the new birth, you\u2019re always going to have a distorted view of manhood or womanhood.\n\nThe second thing I\u2019m hearing is that it\u2019s hard to nail down, into a sentence or a phrase, what masculinity and femininity are. There are shades; there are gradations; there are words we can put to that. We don\u2019t want to get too concrete with what those words mean or try to box somebody in, but maybe it\u2019s more about the direction you lean than it is an absolute descriptor of you.\n\nThen the last thing I\u2019m hearing both of you say is\u2014at the end of the day, the freedom you feel to be the woman God\u2019s made you to be depends on whether you\u2019re concerned with what He thinks about you or whether you\u2019re concerned with what church people or the broader culture think about you.\n\nIf you\u2019re looking around for affirmation of your womanhood from your peers, or from the culture, or even from folks in the church, you\u2019re probably going to be frustrated. But if you\u2019re saying, \u201cLord, I want to be the woman\u201d\u2014in our case, Dave, the man\u2014\u201cthat You\u2019ve made me to be. I want to fully embrace the fact that You made me as a woman\u201d\u2014or as a man\u2014\u201cand I want to live for You.\u201d When you look to His Word and understand His pleasure in that, you can kind of tune out what everybody else is thinking about you and just live in that.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It sure would be nice if there was a book written on this, Bob. Wouldn\u2019t that be nice?\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What a thought!\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014that a woman could read?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As a matter of fact, Abigail has spent a long time working on a book called (<em>A<\/em>)<em>Typical<\/em>\u2014this is hard to say on radio. So, the word is (<em>A<\/em>)<em>Typical Woman<\/em>. If I search for it on the web, do I search using the word \u201cA\u201d? Do I start (<em>A<\/em>)<em>Typical<\/em>\u2026? You don\u2019t know; do you?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>I don\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; just go to FamilyLifeToday.com. We have it in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center; you can order the book from us. In fact, there are two ways you can get it. You can order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and say, \u201cI want a copy of Abigail Dodds\u2019 book, (<em>A<\/em>)<em>Typical Woman: Free, Whole, and Called in Christ<\/em>\u201d; and we\u2019re happy to send it to you. Again, you\u2019ll find it, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nThe other way to get the book, we\u2019re offering it this week as a gift to those of you who will join the FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Legacy Partner team. This is the group of folks who make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible for their fellow listeners, in your community and in cities all around the country and\u2014now, via the internet\u2014all around the world. A Legacy Partner makes a monthly contribution to support this ministry, and we are <em>grateful<\/em> that we have hundreds of Legacy Partners all around the country.\n\nWe\u2019d like to ask you, if you\u2019re a regular listener\/maybe you\u2019ve listened for a long time: \u201cWould you be a part of this Legacy Partner team so that <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> can continue and expand and reach more people?\u201d When you do, we\u2019re going to do two things: first of all, we\u2019ll send you Abigail Dodds\u2019 book, (<em>A<\/em>)<em>Typical Woman<\/em>, as a thank-you gift; and we\u2019re going to send you a gift card so that you and your spouse, or someone else you know, can be our guest at an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. You get the gift card for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> and the book, (<em>A<\/em>)<em>Typical Woman<\/em> when you become a monthly Legacy Partner with <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\nIt\u2019s easy to do\u2014you can call and say, \u201cI\u2019d like to become a Legacy Partner,\u201d or go online at FamilyLifeToday.com. When you see the button that says, \u201cDonate,\u201d just click there and the information about becoming a Legacy Partner is right there. Again, we\u2019ll send you Abigail\u2019s book and a gift card for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway as a way of saying, \u201cThank you for joining the team and being one of our key supporters as a monthly Legacy Partner.\u201d\u00a0 We look forward to hearing from you.\n\nAnd we hope you\u2019ll join us again tomorrow. Abigail Dodds is going to be here again, and we\u2019re going to continue the conversation about understanding womanhood and femininity. What is it that God has in mind for women in making them women? We\u2019ll talk more about that tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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Abigail Dodds, a wife and mother to five, talks about the way men and women are inherently different from one another. But, the gifts of the Spirit, she reminds us, can be exhibited by all believers, regardless of gender.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-09-30.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In Genesis 1, the Bible says that God created human beings as male and female. Abigail Dodds says that\u2019s at the core of what women need to understand about who they are as women.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>To be a woman means to have been created. Now, that sounds like nothing; right? It\u2019s kind of like saying \u201c\u2019X\u2019 is \u2018X.\u2019\u201d But I do believe this with all my heart, and I\u2019m just trying to say: \u201cWhat God has made in woman\u2014in that word even, as it defines what we are\u2014is itself fully valuable.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, September 30<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. Does the Bible give us a clear sense of the difference between men and women?\u2014and what are we to understand about how we were made differently? We\u2019re going to talk about that today with Abigail Dodds. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I just met our guest for today\u2019s program a little while ago, and I\u2019ll introduce her. Abigail Dodds is joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014welcome.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Thanks for having me.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re happy to have you here. I can already tell\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I know what you\u2019re going to say, Bob!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; let\u2019s see! Let\u2019s see!\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Oh boy; okay.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I know what you\u2019re going to say.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I can already tell\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014that Ann and Abigail are going to have a great conversation today.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s true\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Okay; that wasn\u2019t it?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that\u2019s not exactly what I was going to say.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Okay!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was going to say, \u201cI can already tell she is a very courageous woman, because just to tackle the subject she has tackled in this book, in this day, takes some courage\u201d; don\u2019t you think?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think it does take courage, and it takes conviction. This has to be a conviction for you to put your thoughts into words. Also, she\u2019s brave because she\u2019s left her five children [Laughter] that are from five to fifteen.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Maybe it\u2019s not brave; maybe it\u2019s just she\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; she needs a break?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>\u201cShe has a couple of screws loose.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Abigail is a writer; she lives in Minneapolis; married, with five kids; a regular contributor at Desiring God Ministries. The subject you\u2019ve decided to tackle is the subject of trying to come up with a biblical definition or understanding of womanhood and femininity.\n\nThe reason that I don\u2019t have to explain why that\u2019s so courageous\u2014to try to come up with that\u2014we have this cultural idea of what masculine and feminine are and, now, we have a backlash against the cultural\u2014saying, \u201cNo, the culture\u2014there shouldn\u2019t be <em>any<\/em> definition.\u201d You\u2019re trying to say, \u201cOkay; what does the Bible tell us about how men are different than women, and how can we embrace that and believe it?\u201d\n\nYou knew you were sailing into headwinds when you sat down to write it; didn\u2019t you?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Right; yes. I don\u2019t think you can live in this world and not know that you\u2019re tackling something that a lot of people maybe <em>don\u2019t<\/em> want to hear about or are very apprehensive about hearing about. I get that. I think I can be apprehensive when I pick up books on this topic, because there are so many ways to go wrong; and there are so many ways to step on people\u2019s toes, unintentionally.\n\nEven as you\u2019re trying very hard to say something true, and winsome, and godly, what you say might not line up with another person\u2019s lived experience or with damage that they\u2019ve had done to them in their experiences. To try and wade into those waters is difficult, <em>but<\/em> still necessary and just still so important\u2014that we understand that Christ applies to every single bit of our life\u2014and there\u2019s none of it we should leave unturned.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>One of my sons has coined a phrase\u2014I don\u2019t know if he invented it or if he heard somebody else use it\u2014but he talks about \u201cgenderalities.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> word.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Isn\u2019t it a good phrase?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s this idea that we have these preconceptions of what gender should be, based on cultural standards rather than on biblical standards. Some of this comes out of\u2014I think I\u2019ve told this before\u2014he was at a youth retreat when he was in junior high. The speaker was saying, \u201cYou know, guys and girls are different. Guys like sports, and girls like to read.\u201d\n\nOkay; so my son, who loved to read and wasn\u2019t particularly athletic, comes home and goes, \u201cSo, what am <em>I<\/em>?\u201d\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>I\u2019ve had those same experiences\u2014of hearing the people up front use some generality to describe what it means to be a woman\u2014and kind of come away, scratching my head, thinking: \u201cHuh. I don\u2019t know if I fit. Does that mean I\u2019m not a true woman, or does that mean I\u2019m not a biblical woman?\u201d\n\nThat\u2019s why we have to go back to the Word over and over and be looking at what God is saying about what He\u2019s created\/what He\u2019s made and what that means. You know, my grandmother was a farmer\u2019s wife; and she worked out in the hot sun. She is sweating and working alongside him. My mom, a farmer\u2019s daughter\u2014I mean, nothing gave her more joy than to take the chainsaw out and do some yardwork. [Laughter] These were wonderfully feminine, godly women, who were not afraid of some sweat and hard work. I just think we need to make room for those kinds of things when we talk about men and women.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I just want our listeners to hear: wonderful, godly, sweating, chainsaw-wielding women.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That can all work together; right?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That just described my wife.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I like that, actually; because Bob\u2019s wife, Mary Ann\u2014she loves to do yardwork and mowing the grass\u2014so do I. I think that doesn\u2019t mean we\u2019re not feminine.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>No, not a bit.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>I mean, the Proverbs 31 woman\u2014my goodness; I\u2019m pretty sure she was getting some sweat going. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, this woman was remarkable!\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When we first started working together on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Ann, I remember you saying, \u201cI wonder if this is going to work, because I don\u2019t think of myself as\u201d\u2014you said\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t think of myself as a typical woman.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I don\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What do you mean?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, I think that I was a tomboy, growing up. I liked to play outside with the boys. I liked to play football and all the sports\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And she\u2019s good at it. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes. I\u2019m also\u2014I think, when I was growing up, I thought of women as kind and as nurturing. I tend to be tough and loud; and I think: \u201cOh, I don\u2019t fit that mold. Am I immature?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And she\u2019s good at it. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Gentle, quiet spirit\u2014you go, \u201cI don\u2019t know that I have a gentle, quiet spirit.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; \u201cI don\u2019t know if I have that\u201d; right.\n\nThe first time I was at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>marriage conference, and they were talking about what a woman is\u2014and that nurturing part of her and she has\u2014those were the words of Scripture\u2014a \u201cquiet and gentle\u2026\u201d I thought, \u201cOh, I don\u2019t even fit into the Bible.\u201d I think some women feel like that; have you found that?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Yes, I think that\u2019s a very common way to feel. I know I, myself, have felt that\u2014like: \u201cWow; I have too many strong opinions; I have too much going on; I care too much about all the wrong things,\u201d\u2014things like that.\n\nI think, you know, for all of us, those principles set up\u2014of a gentle and quiet spirit that Peter is admonishing us to be like\u2014you know, that\u2019s something that we need to learn with an older woman\u2019s arm around our shoulder, who\u2019s telling us: \u201cI felt the same way when I heard that,\u201d and \u201cHere\u2019s how God grew me in that area, even so; isn\u2019t He wonderful to do that?\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s a really <em>hard<\/em> thing, I think, to hear\u2014sometimes from on high or from a certain way that\u2019s a little bit more detached\u2014where we think: \u201cI have no model for this,\u201d or \u201cI just don\u2019t know the steps forward. If that\u2019s what I\u2019m supposed to be, how do I get there?\u2014because I have more opinions than I know what to do with, and I want to say them all, and I\u00a0 want to be really adamant about all of them.\u201d\n\nTempering all those things, by the Holy Spirit\u2019s help and in the community of believers, is such a valuable thing and a way of growing in grace in those areas that we know are biblical, yet not feeling alienated, recognizing that, \u201cYes, my natural bent may be a certain way; yet, that doesn\u2019t mean I can\u2019t cultivate a gentle and quiet spirit by His grace.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You open the book with sort of an\u2014in my opinion, angst\u2014sort of a look at the womanhood in the church today. Talk about that a little bit, because that felt like it was coming from your soul.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That was the word that I felt, too, Dave; because you say, \u201cI\u2019m partly distressed over the state of Christian women,\u201d and that feels like an angst to me. What made you write that?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>We are facing winds from one direction or another. The culture is kind of blowing us all in one direction, in terms of: \u201cThere are zero differences between men and women. As a matter of fact, a man can be a woman; a woman can be a man.\u201d Sometimes those winds\u2014they generally are blowing into the church as well, but often we have our nose to those winds a little bit. We know they\u2019re there; so we are generally trying to push back to some degree, although I think we still can be\/all of us can be blind to some of them anyway.\n\nThen, sometimes what happens is we\u2019ll swing the pendulum the other way really hard to make sure that we <em>don\u2019t<\/em> think like the world\/act like the world, but we might not do it with our feet in the Scripture; it might just be a reaction. If that happens, then what you do end up with is legalism or things of that nature. That\u2019s sometimes the angst I feel\u2014is the different ways the pendulum is swinging, coming from different angles, can really make it hard to feel like: \u201cWhich way am I supposed to be pushing against?! What am I aiming <em>at<\/em>? What am I aiming <em>for<\/em>?\u201d\n\nMy burden was really just to say: \u201cWe can\u2019t talk about what it means to be a biblical woman without putting Christ in the conversation. We can\u2019t abstract Christ away from what it means to be a biblical woman. We need the new birth; we need to see ourselves as having been made <em>through<\/em> Christ and <em>for<\/em> Christ. Once we do that, our conversations have such a more sturdy footing. We can look to biblical examples of women and, all of a sudden, our feet are much more settled on solid ground when we\u2019ve really thought through what it means to be made through and for Christ.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But you know that 90\u2014I don\u2019t have the exact number here\u2014we\u2019ll say\n\n97 percent of what the Bible says about living the Christian life is not gender-specific.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, the fruit of the Spirit is for all of us; right?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The imperatives that follow the indicatives\u2014those are for all of us. There are only a few places where language gets gender-specific; and that\u2019s where you say, if the language of the Bible gets gender-specific, we ought to stop and go, \u201cOkay, why did he turn here and say, \u2018Women, this is for you\u2019\u201d?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Right. I try to give an analogy; like if your uncle writes a letter to the family and he\u2019s telling all about something that happened\u2014and he\u2019s: \u201cDear family,\u201d\u00a0 and it\u2019s a whole long letter\u2014and then he pauses at one point and says, \u201cAnd to my niece\u2026\u201d and then says something else and, then, continues on. Now, the main points of the letter are probably in the body that goes to all the family; but to the niece, she will pay certain attention to the part that\u2019s written with her name there.\n\nJust like the Bible, the gospel is the good news about Jesus Christ. The point of the Bible is to get us to Christ\u2014to know and reveal the person and work of Christ\/that\u2019s how we know the Father\u2014that\u2019s the point. Yet, there are really specific ways that that applies to men and women that the biblical authors don\u2019t hold back on. It can\u2019t be received, though, without understanding that bigger piece. We will not love anything in the Bible unless our old heart has been taken out and a new heart put in.\n\nThat was another thing I really wanted to lay the foundation for\u2014is without the new birth\/without a new heart, this will not\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014make sense.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, the person, who is just thinking, \u201cGalatians 3:28,\u201d right now, they\u2019re just going: \u201cBut it says \u2018There\u2019s neither male nor female\u201d\u2014these distinctions that you\u2019re trying to impose\u2014in Christ, the distinctions go away,\u201d and \u201cWomen should have the freedom to be, and to express, and not\u2014the boundaries between men and women have been dissolved in Christ.\u201d\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Well, I <em>love<\/em> that passage from Galatians; and I don\u2019t like it when people pit Scriptures against each other\u2014like, \u201cWell, this is the Scripture that people over here like to use; but we kind of stay away from it because we\u2019re afraid it might undermine our\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The proof text wars?\u2014yes. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cThis one might undermine our point of view.\u201d\n\nI think, what an incredible gift that\u2014yes, in Christ\u2014I am a co-heir. The way I understand that is\u2014it\u2019s not that distinction vanishes. In heaven, we know that it will be every tribe, tongue, people, and nation\u2014the distinction will still be there, in that sense, in terms of tribes, tongues, peoples, and nations. That\u2019s the way I tend to think of it is\u2014it\u2019s this diversity brought to unity in that we are all heirs, together, with Christ but not that that flattens everything about us.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Equal value, equal worth, equal inheritors, equally loved by God; with, still, God-given distinctions that are a part of who we are.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I mean, the distinctions\u2014and I can feel it as you talk about womanhood\u2014it\u2019s in your subtitle: <em>Free, Whole, and Called in Christ<\/em>. I want to hear what <em>you<\/em> would say, as a woman, who\u2019s <em>wholly<\/em> woman. I think Bob and I probably understand manhood. Do we understand womanhood?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, honestly, I\u2019ve been here for more than 25 years. To ask the question, \u201cCome up with a biblical definition of masculinity and femininity,\u201d is one of those things that we keep coming back to\u2014not wanting to go too far and not wanting to blur what the Bible teaches\u2014just find what\u2019s the sweet spot. That\u2019s why, when I saw this book, I said: \u201cI\u2019m glad Abigail\u2019s figured it out. We\u2019ll get her here\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And she\u2019s bold enough to write about it; exactly!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>To Dave\u2019s point, if you had to come up with that one sentence, \u201cHere\u2019s what it means to be wholly a woman,\u201d\u2014w-h-o-l-l-y a woman\u2014what would you say?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>To be made wholly a woman is simply to be created by God as a woman. Now that sounds like nothing; right? It\u2019s kind of like saying, \u201c\u2019X\u2019 is \u2018X,\u2019\u201d but I\u2019m not trying to tell you what the attributes of a Christian woman are; because I think we can find those in the Scripture. But when we ask the question, \u201cWhat is it to be a woman?\u201d I simply want to say something so foundational, because our culture is saying that to be made a woman isn\u2019t a woman.\n\nUnless we start with: \u201cTo be a woman means to have been created,\u201d that means you\u2019re a creature; it means you didn\u2019t make yourself; and it means you don\u2019t decide what you are. It means to be created by God as a woman. That has implications for your body; it has implications for the instructions that you\u2019re given in Scripture; and certainly there is a deeper essence to that\u2014that, you\u2019re right, I\u2019m not going to be able to put words to.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s also in His image\u2014\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014so we bear qualities of God\/that we represent Him, which is beautiful\u2014that are distinct and can be different from men.\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>We don\u2019t always embrace and, yet, God is reveling in His creation.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is a conundrum; and we have to be careful about being too boxy and saying, \u201cFemininity means this; and if you\u2019re not this, you\u2019re not feminine,\u201d because that may depend on: \u201cIn what environment is this happening?\u201d\u2014right?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Here\u2019s another question for you: \u201cDo you feel free to be wholly woman in the culture and in the church?\u201d\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>Well, I think I would say, \u201cYes; I feel completely set free in Christ to be exactly as He\u2019s made me.\u201d I feel that I don\u2019t think you\u2019ll have the freedom piece until you\u2019ve had new birth. I would say being wholly woman\u2014whole\u2014even if you aren\u2019t a believer, is something that we can\u2019t get around.\n\nOne of the things that gets said in the church is: \u201cI don\u2019t like it when people treat me as just a woman. I want you to see me as a human,\u201d or \u201cI don\u2019t like to be treated as just a woman. I want you to see me as a person.\u201d Now, to that, I would say, \u201cAmen to treating people as people\u201d; but the part of that that misses something really valuable is that to be a woman is to be fully human. We shouldn\u2019t talk about the word, \u201cwoman,\u201d as though it\u2019s small and degrading but \u201cIf I want to treat someone like they\u2019re important, well then, I\u2019ll treat them more like a human, or a person, or a man.\u201d\n\nNo! I would like it for everyone to treat me as a woman, and let that be as big as it really is\u2014it\u2019s a full reality. I\u2019m a human, as a woman; and so you should treat me accordingly, not as though being a woman is only the small slice of specifics. \u201cBut if you were going to treat me really well, then you would treat me like a person,\u201d\u2014well, why not just treat me as a woman, and then you decide that that is a good thing; it is a valuable thing.\n\nWe get into these semantics because we are trying to be seen as valuable. I\u2019m just trying to say, \u201cWhat God has made in woman\u2014in that word even, as it defines what we are\u2014is itself fully valuable.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, do you feel free, Ann, to be a whole woman and to embrace biblical femininity in the church and in the culture?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I feel total freedom in my relationship with Christ. I feel like He celebrates me; I feel like He complements my gifts and my strengths. However, I don\u2019t always feel that freedom in the church or in culture.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You don\u2019t feel like everybody else is giving you that freedom?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; I\u2019m always thinking: \u201cWhat is this person\u2026? What is this church\u2026? Will they celebrate me as well?\u201d Or the culture: \u201cAre they celebrating me to the point where it\u2019s an idolization of me being a woman?\u201d It\u2019s a tricky path to walk; and yet I do know, in Christ, He celebrates me.\n\nI think, culturally speaking, when Jesus walked the earth, it was a different day. There were many Hebrew scholars that wouldn\u2019t even believe that women had a soul. You have Jesus walk onto the scene, where He is elevating women and even using them in His teaching\u2014John 4, with the woman at the well\u2014that was unheard of, that He would not only speak to a Samaritan woman, but He would have a conversation and even ask her for water. He would become unclean.\n\nYes, it\u2019s a tricky day; and yet, a <em>beautiful<\/em> day to be alive as a woman. And the place called America is very different from other parts of the world.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m hearing two big ideas out of the conversation we\u2019ve had today\u2014maybe three. One is that the first thing in understanding what it means to be a woman or a man is to experience the new birth.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Apart from the new birth, you\u2019re always going to have a distorted view of manhood or womanhood.\n\nThe second thing I\u2019m hearing is that it\u2019s hard to nail down, into a sentence or a phrase, what masculinity and femininity are. There are shades; there are gradations; there are words we can put to that. We don\u2019t want to get too concrete with what those words mean or try to box somebody in, but maybe it\u2019s more about the direction you lean than it is an absolute descriptor of you.\n\nThen the last thing I\u2019m hearing both of you say is\u2014at the end of the day, the freedom you feel to be the woman God\u2019s made you to be depends on whether you\u2019re concerned with what He thinks about you or whether you\u2019re concerned with what church people or the broader culture think about you.\n\nIf you\u2019re looking around for affirmation of your womanhood from your peers, or from the culture, or even from folks in the church, you\u2019re probably going to be frustrated. But if you\u2019re saying, \u201cLord, I want to be the woman\u201d\u2014in our case, Dave, the man\u2014\u201cthat You\u2019ve made me to be. I want to fully embrace the fact that You made me as a woman\u201d\u2014or as a man\u2014\u201cand I want to live for You.\u201d When you look to His Word and understand His pleasure in that, you can kind of tune out what everybody else is thinking about you and just live in that.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It sure would be nice if there was a book written on this, Bob. Wouldn\u2019t that be nice?\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What a thought!\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014that a woman could read?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As a matter of fact, Abigail has spent a long time working on a book called (<em>A<\/em>)<em>Typical<\/em>\u2014this is hard to say on radio. So, the word is (<em>A<\/em>)<em>Typical Woman<\/em>. If I search for it on the web, do I search using the word \u201cA\u201d? Do I start (<em>A<\/em>)<em>Typical<\/em>\u2026? You don\u2019t know; do you?\n\n<strong>Abigail: <\/strong>I don\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; just go to FamilyLifeToday.com. We have it in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center; you can order the book from us. In fact, there are two ways you can get it. You can order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and say, \u201cI want a copy of Abigail Dodds\u2019 book, (<em>A<\/em>)<em>Typical Woman: Free, Whole, and Called in Christ<\/em>\u201d; and we\u2019re happy to send it to you. Again, you\u2019ll find it, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nThe other way to get the book, we\u2019re offering it this week as a gift to those of you who will join the FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Legacy Partner team. This is the group of folks who make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible for their fellow listeners, in your community and in cities all around the country and\u2014now, via the internet\u2014all around the world. A Legacy Partner makes a monthly contribution to support this ministry, and we are <em>grateful<\/em> that we have hundreds of Legacy Partners all around the country.\n\nWe\u2019d like to ask you, if you\u2019re a regular listener\/maybe you\u2019ve listened for a long time: \u201cWould you be a part of this Legacy Partner team so that <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> can continue and expand and reach more people?\u201d When you do, we\u2019re going to do two things: first of all, we\u2019ll send you Abigail Dodds\u2019 book, (<em>A<\/em>)<em>Typical Woman<\/em>, as a thank-you gift; and we\u2019re going to send you a gift card so that you and your spouse, or someone else you know, can be our guest at an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. You get the gift card for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> and the book, (<em>A<\/em>)<em>Typical Woman<\/em> when you become a monthly Legacy Partner with <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\nIt\u2019s easy to do\u2014you can call and say, \u201cI\u2019d like to become a Legacy Partner,\u201d or go online at FamilyLifeToday.com. When you see the button that says, \u201cDonate,\u201d just click there and the information about becoming a Legacy Partner is right there. Again, we\u2019ll send you Abigail\u2019s book and a gift card for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway as a way of saying, \u201cThank you for joining the team and being one of our key supporters as a monthly Legacy Partner.\u201d\u00a0 We look forward to hearing from you.\n\nAnd we hope you\u2019ll join us again tomorrow. Abigail Dodds is going to be here again, and we\u2019re going to continue the conversation about understanding womanhood and femininity. What is it that God has in mind for women in making them women? We\u2019ll talk more about that tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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