{"id":305337,"date":"2019-09-11T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2019-09-11T10:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/appreciating-the-song-of-solomon\/"},"modified":"2019-09-11T06:00:04","modified_gmt":"2019-09-11T10:00:04","slug":"appreciating-the-song-of-solomon","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/appreciating-the-song-of-solomon\/","title":{"rendered":"Appreciating the Song of Solomon"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Philip Graham Ryken | Series: The Love of Loves in the Song of Songs | Wheaton College President Phil Ryken sheds some light on the passionate poetry of the Song of Songs. The book is a collection of songs about a couple whose relationship is heading into marriage. The main characters, Solomon and the Shulamite, value and love each other. They can&#8217;t wait to be together, and express their love to one another eagerly and expressively.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind Your Getaway at one of FamilyLife&#8217;s Weekend to Remember\u00ae marriage getaways.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/weekend-to-remember<br \/>\n \tHas the FamilyLife Today\u00ae podcast and resources helped you?\u00a0 Learn more about becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Wheaton College President Phil Ryken sheds some light on the passionate poetry of the Song of Songs. The book is a collection of songs about a couple whose relationship is heading into marriage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-09-11.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:16","filesize":"25.89M","filesize_raw":"27143238","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822,2088],"tags":[2976,6715,6714,5449,4207],"podcast_series":[8300],"cwp_profile":[9311],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305337","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-romance-and-sex","tag-christian-marriage","tag-engaged-couples","tag-song-of-solomon","tag-song-of-songs","tag-wedding","podcast_series-the-love-of-loves-in-the-song-of-songs","cwp_profile-philip-graham-ryken","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305337\/appreciating-the-song-of-solomon","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305337\/appreciating-the-song-of-solomon","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"uiNp5CY8xZ\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/appreciating-the-song-of-solomon\/\">Appreciating the Song of Solomon<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/appreciating-the-song-of-solomon\/embed\/#?secret=uiNp5CY8xZ\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Appreciating the Song of Solomon&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"uiNp5CY8xZ\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-09-11.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-09-11.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The Bible says God created marriage to be a picture\u2014a picture of the relationship between Christ and His church\u2014so when we read about marriage in the Bible, we ought to be looking at it through two lenses. Here\u2019s Dr. Phil Ryken.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>If we step back from the Song of Solomon\u2014kind of pan out a little bit so we\u2019re not just looking at the Song of Solomon; we\u2019re looking at the whole of Scripture\u2014we see that there is a big love story that\u2019s being told here about God\u2019s love for His people, which comes to marriage fulfillment\u2014in the relationship between Jesus Christ, the worthy groom, and the church of Christ, which is the bride of Christ\u2014that\u2019s the big picture here.\n\nEven a human-level relationship and romance that we find in the Song of Solomon is part of this bigger story of our soul\u2019s relationship to God. I think we read the book with a kind of bifocal vision.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, September 11<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. What can be learn from the Song of Solomon about God\u2019s love for us, our love for Him, and what can we learn about our marriages? We\u2019ll hear more today from Dr. Phil Ryken. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I have a fresh excitement this week for this book in the middle of our Bible that, as I understand it\u2014we should ask our guest about this\u2014I understand that this book was not supposed to be read in public meetings if there were kids under the age of 13 present in those meetings.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Is that true?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, we\u2019ll find out; because we have Dr. Philip Ryken joining us again.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, we have a friend, who walked in on her daughters\u2014right?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; this is my friend, and she said\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, she\u2019s my friend, too.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I guess she is; yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>She\u2019s a friend of us. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>She walked into the bedroom; and her two daughters were sitting on the bed, reading something\u2014they were probably ten and twelve. When the mom walked in, the girls threw the book under the bed. She\u2019s thinking: \u201cAh! What are they reading? What did they find?\u201d She pulls out the Bible and she said, \u201cGirls, why did you throw the Bible under the bed?\u201d She said they said, \u201cWe were reading the Song of Songs,\u201d and it felt embarrassing to them.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, we have Dr. Phil Ryken joining us this week on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Before I introduce you, Phil, I need to let our listeners know about a special opportunity we\u2019re giving <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners this week and next week. We want you to get your Bible out from under the bed and bring it with you to a weekend getaway, as a couple, to come join us for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway in one of three dozen cities, where we\u2019re going to be hosting getaways this fall.\n\nIf you sign up this week or next week to attend, you save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. We\u2019re hoping a lot of our listeners will say: \u201cYou know, we ought to do that this fall. We ought to get away together.\u201d Maybe it\u2019s been a few years since you\u2019ve done anything like this; maybe it\u2019s <em>never<\/em> happened in your marriage. Take a weekend away together and find out about God\u2019s design for marriage and study what the Bible has to say about marriage at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\n\nGo to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014you can register online or get information about the locations and dates of upcoming getaways\u2014or call 1-800-FL-TODAY for more information. We can also register you by phone. Again, the website, FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to join us for an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway and to save 50 percent off the registration. We just need to hear from you this week or next week, so you can take advantage of that special offer.\n\nNow, let me introduce our guest, who is joining us this week on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Dr. Phil Ryken. Dr. Ryken, welcome back.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Thank you. Great to be with you; and great to be talking again about the greatest love song ever written, the Song of Solomon.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Phil is the president of Wheaton College, for almost a decade now. He has written a book, on the Song of Songs, called <em>The Love of Loves in the Song of Songs<\/em>.\n\nAm I right in what I\u2019ve heard?\u2014that Jewish kids weren\u2019t supposed to hear this?\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; so it probably varied across various communities. There definitely have been communities, where you had to kind of reach a certain age of maturity\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Bar mitzvah has to happen!\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>\u2014yes; past puberty to start looking at this very intimate part of the Bible.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>At our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways, we spend an hour talking about intimacy in romance\/sex in a marriage relationship.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Some of us spend an hour-and-a-half. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re supposed to take just an hour.\n\nBut part of the question coming up is: \u201cWhat does the Bible have to say about intimacy and sex in a relationship?\u201d You turn to a couple of passages in the Song of Solomon, and it\u2019s pretty explicit in what it says. In fact, as we read these passages out loud to married couples, and you get to parts about palm trees and climbing palm trees, there\u2019s a little giggling going on among the grownups.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; well, you know, some giggling is good. One of the things I\u2019ll say about the Song of Solomon is: \u201cThis is definitely poetry\u2014it is love poetry; it is erotic poetry; that is, it has to do with sexual intimacy; but it is not pornographic.\n\nThat\u2019s one of the reasons why certain things are expressed in metaphor, drawn from the natural world: the flowers, the animals, the fruitfulness of certain things. It\u2019s pretty clear what\u2019s being suggested there. You know, you don\u2019t have to know too much about human anatomy to understand some of the things that are talked about there. But it doesn\u2019t cross that line; it knows where the line is. I think, in a culture where we often don\u2019t know where the line is, we can get a little embarrassed with the Song of Solomon.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019m so grateful for this; because I think so many, like myself\u2014I was exposed, very early, to pornography, probably four years old and on\u2014it was just around. I was exposed to it through other people and, then, have sexual abuse.\n\nI\u2019ll never forget the first time I went to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> and heard God\u2019s plan for sexual intimacy. I was blown away; because I had been bombarded with the world\/the culture\u2014all that they said about sex and sexual intimacy, even in marriage\u2014and I had never heard God\u2019s plan.\n\nSo I am so excited that we have a healthy, biblical view of what God says. Thanks for doing that.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, if somebody is in their Bible-reading schedule, and they open their schedule this morning\u2014and it says, \u201cSong of Solomon, Chapter 1,\u201d and they\u2019re going to start reading through this\u2014what do they need to know, going in? How can they have the best experience reading through this?\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Here\u2019s the thing that\u2019s really helped me a lot. In the Song of Songs, there are people that speak to one another. There are these daughters of Jerusalem that enter in\u2014I think even some of the ways some of the Bibles are laid out, it tells you who the speaker is. You feel almost like you\u2019re reading a play, kind of like the manuscript for the high school musical you were in, which tells you who has which part. And there\u2019s an aspect of that\u2014there\u2019s a dramatic aspect to it.\n\nBut this is love poetry, and it\u2019s organized a little more loosely. It\u2019s really a collection of songs. I think, very likely, these were songs that were sung at weddings in biblical times. This is what you would sing during that week-long celebration. You know, you\u2019d hear a song coming from over the wall; you kind of join in the song, because you knew these words.\n\nI think of the Song of Songs\u2014these are like the liner notes in an album of love songs; they kind of hang together. You feel like: \u201cThis is this part of their story,\u201d \u201cThis is another part of their story\u201d; but you\u2019re not expecting it to tell you everything about their relationship or describe everything\u2014it\u2019s a little looser than that\u2014the way a collection of love songs would be.\n\nI think, when you enter into a book of the Bible, knowing what kind of a book it is\u2014it clarifies your expectations. I think that\u2019s important to know.\n\nI also think it\u2019s important to know that this intimate relationship is heading in the direction of marriage. This isn\u2019t just about sexual relationships; it\u2019s about romance leading to marriage, and it\u2019s in that context that sexual desire has its fulfillment. You can follow that arc through the story.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Should it be read chronologically? Do we think that all of these scenes are happening in chronological order?\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes, I think it\u2019s loosely chronological. I would definitely read the book in order. I would also read it slowly, and that\u2019s hard; it\u2019s hard to slow down. I love a single-column for some of my Bible reading. I have a Bible in my hands, right now, that\u2019s exactly the opposite of that. All the words are crammed together in this little Bible, with two columns. You feel like you should go on and read the next thing, rather than reading a line or a verse and just kind of savoring it and letting it sink in.\n\nAnother thing is\u2014you know, there are parts of the Bible that are very straightforward\u2014the historical parts, like, \u201cThis is who did what to whom, and here\u2019s what happened\u2026\u201d You just kind of read it fairly rapidly. You get the story, and you\u2019re absorbed in the story. Poetry doesn\u2019t work that way\u2014it gives you an image\/a picture\u2014maybe something from the natural world. You kind of have to think about, \u201cWhy is that comparison being made?\u201d It\u2019s an invitation to reflection.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>When you\u2019re reading it, are you reading it as, \u201cThis is a man and a woman,\u201d or are you reading it\u2014do you read it another time, thinking, \u201cThis is God pursuing me\u201d?\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>I think it\u2019s both\u2014it\u2019s both\/and\u2014and I think that\u2019s a very important part. This book operates on a horizontal level\/human level: romance and relationship; vertical level. Vertical level\u2014not because God gets mentioned a lot in the book\u2014but because, if we step back from the Song of Songs\u2014kind of pan out a little bit, so we\u2019re not just looking at the Song of Solomon; we\u2019re looking at the whole of Scripture\u2014we see that there is a big love story that\u2019s being told here about God\u2019s love for His people, which comes to marriage fulfillment\u2014in the relationship between Jesus Christ, the worthy groom, and the church of Christ, which is the bride of Christ\u2014that\u2019s the big picture here.\n\nEven a human-level relationship and romance that we find in the Song of Solomon is part of this bigger story of our soul\u2019s relationship to God, so I think we read the book with a kind of bifocal vision.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Tell me, then\u2014you just touched on it\u2014the first time I ever came across the Song of Solomon\u2014I\u2019m a new believer, I\u2019m reading the Bible, really, for the first time. My question, when I got there\u2014because I didn\u2019t understand it, initially\u2014was, \u201cWhy?\u201d I didn\u2019t know how the Bible was put together\/the canon of Scripture; but I found myself going: \u201cWhy\u2019s this book here? What is the real purpose of how this ended up in the 66 books? I\u2019m not sure!\u201d You started to hit on that\u2014why\u2019s it there?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And then you get to Ecclesiastes and you go, \u201cWhy is <em>this<\/em> there, too?\u201d\u2014right? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s not hard to understand why Ecclesiastes is there on Monday morning; right? [Laughter]\n\nHere\u2019s, maybe, a way of thinking about it. What are God\u2019s two greatest commandments?\u2014love for God and love for one another. What is the Song of Solomon about?\u2014it is about love for God, and it is about love for one another. So why is this book here?\u2014for a lot of reasons; but it\u2019s talking about core issues, and it\u2019s also giving us a beautiful soundtrack for the love story of our redemption.\n\nAlso, you know, we need propositions about marriage\u2014we need, \u201cHusbands, love your wives,\u201d \u201cLay down your life for your wife the way Christ\u2026\u201d\u2014I mean, we need those kinds of propositions\/commands; but we also need stories, and poems, and songs so that we don\u2019t just know about a relationship; but we actually feel and experience it through the stories, and emotions, and experiences, and responses of others.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So if most of us are being catechized\u2014being instructed on marriage and relationships by our culture\u2014we\u2019re going to wind up in the ditch. How will reading the Song of Solomon\u2014what are the major themes that will correct from what the culture is training us or teaching us about relationships? How is it countercultural?\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; well, you know, in so many different ways. I think one is that, if you look closely at this love relationship, obviously, there\u2019s a physical attraction that ultimately finds sexual consummation. If you look closely at what is being said, this man and this woman value the personhood of the man or woman with whom they\u2019re falling in love.\n\nThey express\u2014here\u2019s just an example. It\u2019s interesting the way the man, as time goes on\u2014he\u2019s very attracted to this woman\u2019s physical beauty\u2014but then, when he sees how she perseveres in their relationship, he starts praising her strength. That\u2019s not where he started, but he actually came to a deeper understanding of who she was. That\u2019s countercultural, really, I think, to see the whole personhood of another person\u2014the physical, but also the character\/the emotional. That would be one example of what\u2019s countercultural.\n\nIt\u2019s very countercultural to have something erotic that\u2019s not pornographic\u2014that\u2019s countercultural.\n\nIt\u2019s countercultural, I think, to see a relationship that is absolutely based on equality\u2014both seeing, in the other person, the image of God. He praises her as much as she praises him; there\u2019s a symmetry and, in effect, equality; but there\u2019s also a very strong complementarity. There are ways in which this woman is drawn to the leadership qualities of this man, which do not in any way infringe upon her dignity or equality.\n\nPutting all of that together\u2014what is equal before God\/what is complementary in the way that human beings are made to relate, particularly in the context of marriage\u2014all of that is countercultural.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; help me with the last chapter of this book, where it looks like the brothers have come alongside the wife and said, \u201cWe\u2019re putting a hedge around you.\u201d If they\u2019re married by this point, what\u2019s going on there?\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know if I can wrap that up in an easy way, Bob. [Laughter] I will try, though.\n\nThese brothers don\u2019t come off so well. They\u2019re kind of intruding on the relationship in certain ways. You can read their comments at the end either a little more favorably or a little less favorably.\n\nI will say not everything in the book, necessarily, is chronological; so I wouldn\u2019t get caught up in the fact that, \u201cOh, this is\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cat the end.\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; that\u2019s not a stumbling block for me.\n\nRead most favorably, they are being appropriately protective of the purity and virginity of their sister. I think that is a thing that is, not just a personal commitment, but has a communal context\u2014that there\u2019s something at stake for a family.\n\nBut I also find the woman being corrective of her brothers, saying, \u201cYes, that\u2019s good advice for that stage of my relationship; but I actually have entered into my womanhood in the context of marriage here.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I will tell you\u2014that last chapter\u2014we wrote our vows when we got married. Today, I don\u2019t think I would want that to be the case. I think it\u2019s fine for you to express sentiment to one another in a marriage ceremony, but the vows ought to be vows. You ought to be saying: \u201cI promise this\u2026\u201d and \u201cI promise that\u2026\u201d\n\nI was doing more love poetry in my vows than I was doing pledging things. But I did go to Song of Solomon 8, where it says, \u201cPut me as a seal over your heart, for love is as strong as death.\u201d That\u2019s a statement of the power and the commitment of love that needs to be reinvigorated in our culture today; doesn\u2019t it?\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; you know, I think that\u2019s one of the most famous verses in the Song of Songs. You, often, do hear it at a wedding.\n\nBy the way, just on the topic of vows, my own conviction\u2014and Lisa and I wrote our own vows. They were kind of lengthy; they were too long\u2014all these things that, when you\u2019re 18\u2014 [Laughter] You were thinking you were going into ministry and like you have something to say.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Dave wrote a song for me\u2014not to make you guys feel bad\u2014but\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; I blessed my family by <em>not<\/em> writing a song. [Laughter] But actually, I love having the traditional wedding vows in a marriage; because it emphasizes: \u201cThis isn\u2019t about your creative relationship and who you are in your individuality. It\u2019s about you entering into a God-given institution that\u2019s much bigger than all of us.\u201d\n\nBut in the context of a wedding, it\u2019s great to have some poetry; because it awakens that passion. It\u2019s just such a strong image\u2014this \u201cseal upon your heart.\u201d The ancient, probably cylindrical, seal that was kind of like your signet ring\u2014like the thing that you would put into wax or roll into clay\u2014that\u2019s such a strong sign of possession. That\u2019s the thing that you would hold onto, even more than your credit card chip\u2014is your seal. Then to enter into a relationship of mutual possession\u2014where you\u2019re just giving everything to this person that you\u2019re committed to in a lifelong love relationship\u2014that\u2019s the beautiful image there: it\u2019s the constancy of love; it\u2019s permanence.\n\nHere is the place in the Song of Songs where God is mentioned explicitly. This love\u2014you know, we\u2019ve been talking about it on a human level\u2014but we\u2019re talking, now, about a love that\u2019s stronger than death. I mean, the love that\u2019s stronger than death is the love of Jesus Christ, which is demonstrated on the cross and vindicated through the empty tomb. That\u2019s the fiery, passionate love of God for us in Jesus Christ. The Song of Solomon is pointing us toward that; it\u2019s awakening that desire for that kind of love. That relationship is available to every one of us.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I love, toward the end of your book, where you\u2019re talking about the seal, and the covenant, and the perseverance through good times and bad times\u2014the story of Benjamin Warfield, which I had never heard. What a picture of God\u2019s love for us and how that reflects in marriage.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; Benjamin Breckenridge Warfield\u2014Presbyterians will know this particularly\u2014but a famous theologian of old Princeton and very well-read across the country, because he had theological essays that were just household across the country\u2014very influential theologian.\n\nHis wife was tragically struck by lightning, caught in a storm\u2014they were honeymooning, I think it was in Germany\/somewhere in Europe\u2014and she was never the same. She was basically an invalid from that time on. B.B. Warfield was so devoted to her that he rarely traveled more than an hour from their home; I mean, he would go to teach his class at Princeton; he would go back home.\n\nYou know, \u201cWhat is the exact quote?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s in the book\u2014but it was said of Dr. Warfield: \u201cHe had two great interests in life: his studies and Mrs. Warfield.\u201d What a powerful testimony to the constancy of love\/selflessness; and I think\u2014hopefully, not surprising\u2014but actually, sensible that a theologian would have this kind of devotion to his wife.\n\nI think another way of looking at that devotion to his studies and his theology\u2014I mean, that was all about his love for Christ. He was living out the horizontal and the vertical: love for God\/love for espoused neighbor. That\u2019s the testimony and the witness of B.B. Warfield.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s beautiful, and inspiring, because he was living out his vows.\n\nFor me, after being a believer for a long time\u2014I\u2019ve given my life to Jesus, I\u2019ve served Him in ministry, Dave and I have been in ministry for 38 years\u2014but I remember this\u2014one day thinking about the Bridegroom and how Jesus is the groom; and He\u2019s coming back for me. I decided to renew my vows with God\u2014went out into the woods, where I have this secluded place, where I have basically built an altar of rocks of prayers that I\u2019ve laid down. Dave\u2019s been there\u2014it\u2019s this big place.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s a big mound.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>And getting bigger, maybe!\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It is getting bigger.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It is; it grows by the week.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Actually, one of our sons proposed to his wife there. It\u2019s become almost a sanctuary for us.\n\nBut I\u2019ll never forget\u2014one day I decided, \u201cI\u2019m going to renew my vows and my covenant with God.\u201d I went out there, got on my knees, and I basically spoke wedding vows to the Groom, who was coming for me\/re-surrendered my life to Him. As you\u2019ve been a believer and follower of Christ for awhile, you know that it\u2019s amazing; it\u2019s wonderful; you give your life to Him; but you also know it\u2019s hard, and there\u2019s tragedy and hard times.\n\nI\u2019ll never forget that day that I surrendered to Him; and I bought myself a ring, almost kind of as that seal\/as a sign. I always wear it on my right hand to remember that my King and my Groom is coming back for me. I love this idea that our perfect Groom is Jesus, who\u2019s coming back for us.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, that\u2019s where you point us, Dr. Ryken, in the book, <em>The Love of Loves in the Song of Songs<\/em>. You keep reminding us there\u2019s a great love story going on here, but it\u2019s a picture of a greater love story to come.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>I love what you\u2019re talking about, Ann. That is exactly the kind of thing the Puritans would have done\u2014very tangible, covenant-oriented, bed-rock promises that God has made to us and that we make back to God. Beyond that, I mean, very Old Testament to raise up an Ebenezer; you\u2019ve got your stones of remembrance. I think it\u2019s different for each person; but I think, \u201cWow, there\u2019s such wisdom in doing tangible things to reinforce it.\u201d That love relationship, which is symbolized in the ring on your right hand, that\u2019s forever\u2014that is forever\u2014your relationship with Jesus.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>We want to be living into\/living towards that destiny.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Thank you for pointing us in that direction; and thank you for this book and for your work on it, and for being here and sharing this with us.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; I\u2019m glad to do it! Thank you!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We have copies of Dr. Ryken\u2019s book, <em>The Love of Loves in the Song of Songs<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy. This is a great book for you to go through together, as a couple, or maybe in a small group series\u2014<em>The Love of Loves in the Song of Songs<\/em> by Dr. Phil Ryken. Order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nThinking this week about the Song of Solomon, I always think about the hour on Saturday afternoon, at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, where we talk very candidly about intimacy\/about sexual intimacy in marriage. So many couples come up to us and say: \u201cThank you for that hour. We have no place else to go, where we can get a biblical perspective on sex and intimacy in marriage.\u201d\n\nI have the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, here with us. This week, as we\u2019re encouraging listeners to attend a getaway, dealing with these kinds of important practical issues is a part of what the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> is all about.\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>Yes, the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> is a whole weekend that basically is a lot like the conversations we\u2019ve been having with Dr. Ryken. Song of Solomon is one of those books that goes deep when it comes to spiritual intimacy, and emotional intimacy, and physical intimacy. It doesn\u2019t dodge anything. That\u2019s what I love about <em>Weekends to Remember<\/em>\u2014is that you get a couple, face to face, often talking about things that you just have avoided. It\u2019s not going to happen unless you prioritize it.\n\nI want to challenge you\u2014that if you haven\u2019t been to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>; or you\u2019re in a season, where you go, \u201cI need something to jolt and to jumpstart\u2026\u201d; or maybe you\u2019re in a good season, but you want to get a <em>great<\/em> season in your marriage\u2014the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> and setting time aside is an opportunity you have right now, this week, to take advantage of the half-price sale. There are locations all over the nation; you will not regret it.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, and sign up for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. Save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call if you have any questions or if you\u2019d like to register by phone: 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear about an acrobatic stunt that Dave and Ann Wilson attempted that went tragically wrong. It\u2019s a great story, and it unpacks something about marriage that I think all of us can benefit from. We\u2019ll share that story with you tomorrow. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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College President Phil Ryken sheds some light on the passionate poetry of the Song of Songs. The book is a collection of songs about a couple whose relationship is heading into marriage.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-09-11.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The Bible says God created marriage to be a picture\u2014a picture of the relationship between Christ and His church\u2014so when we read about marriage in the Bible, we ought to be looking at it through two lenses. Here\u2019s Dr. Phil Ryken.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>If we step back from the Song of Solomon\u2014kind of pan out a little bit so we\u2019re not just looking at the Song of Solomon; we\u2019re looking at the whole of Scripture\u2014we see that there is a big love story that\u2019s being told here about God\u2019s love for His people, which comes to marriage fulfillment\u2014in the relationship between Jesus Christ, the worthy groom, and the church of Christ, which is the bride of Christ\u2014that\u2019s the big picture here.\n\nEven a human-level relationship and romance that we find in the Song of Solomon is part of this bigger story of our soul\u2019s relationship to God. I think we read the book with a kind of bifocal vision.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, September 11<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. What can be learn from the Song of Solomon about God\u2019s love for us, our love for Him, and what can we learn about our marriages? We\u2019ll hear more today from Dr. Phil Ryken. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I have a fresh excitement this week for this book in the middle of our Bible that, as I understand it\u2014we should ask our guest about this\u2014I understand that this book was not supposed to be read in public meetings if there were kids under the age of 13 present in those meetings.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Is that true?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, we\u2019ll find out; because we have Dr. Philip Ryken joining us again.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, we have a friend, who walked in on her daughters\u2014right?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; this is my friend, and she said\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, she\u2019s my friend, too.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I guess she is; yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>She\u2019s a friend of us. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>She walked into the bedroom; and her two daughters were sitting on the bed, reading something\u2014they were probably ten and twelve. When the mom walked in, the girls threw the book under the bed. She\u2019s thinking: \u201cAh! What are they reading? What did they find?\u201d She pulls out the Bible and she said, \u201cGirls, why did you throw the Bible under the bed?\u201d She said they said, \u201cWe were reading the Song of Songs,\u201d and it felt embarrassing to them.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, we have Dr. Phil Ryken joining us this week on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Before I introduce you, Phil, I need to let our listeners know about a special opportunity we\u2019re giving <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners this week and next week. We want you to get your Bible out from under the bed and bring it with you to a weekend getaway, as a couple, to come join us for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway in one of three dozen cities, where we\u2019re going to be hosting getaways this fall.\n\nIf you sign up this week or next week to attend, you save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. We\u2019re hoping a lot of our listeners will say: \u201cYou know, we ought to do that this fall. We ought to get away together.\u201d Maybe it\u2019s been a few years since you\u2019ve done anything like this; maybe it\u2019s <em>never<\/em> happened in your marriage. Take a weekend away together and find out about God\u2019s design for marriage and study what the Bible has to say about marriage at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\n\nGo to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014you can register online or get information about the locations and dates of upcoming getaways\u2014or call 1-800-FL-TODAY for more information. We can also register you by phone. Again, the website, FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to join us for an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway and to save 50 percent off the registration. We just need to hear from you this week or next week, so you can take advantage of that special offer.\n\nNow, let me introduce our guest, who is joining us this week on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Dr. Phil Ryken. Dr. Ryken, welcome back.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Thank you. Great to be with you; and great to be talking again about the greatest love song ever written, the Song of Solomon.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Phil is the president of Wheaton College, for almost a decade now. He has written a book, on the Song of Songs, called <em>The Love of Loves in the Song of Songs<\/em>.\n\nAm I right in what I\u2019ve heard?\u2014that Jewish kids weren\u2019t supposed to hear this?\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; so it probably varied across various communities. There definitely have been communities, where you had to kind of reach a certain age of maturity\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Bar mitzvah has to happen!\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>\u2014yes; past puberty to start looking at this very intimate part of the Bible.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>At our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways, we spend an hour talking about intimacy in romance\/sex in a marriage relationship.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Some of us spend an hour-and-a-half. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re supposed to take just an hour.\n\nBut part of the question coming up is: \u201cWhat does the Bible have to say about intimacy and sex in a relationship?\u201d You turn to a couple of passages in the Song of Solomon, and it\u2019s pretty explicit in what it says. In fact, as we read these passages out loud to married couples, and you get to parts about palm trees and climbing palm trees, there\u2019s a little giggling going on among the grownups.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; well, you know, some giggling is good. One of the things I\u2019ll say about the Song of Solomon is: \u201cThis is definitely poetry\u2014it is love poetry; it is erotic poetry; that is, it has to do with sexual intimacy; but it is not pornographic.\n\nThat\u2019s one of the reasons why certain things are expressed in metaphor, drawn from the natural world: the flowers, the animals, the fruitfulness of certain things. It\u2019s pretty clear what\u2019s being suggested there. You know, you don\u2019t have to know too much about human anatomy to understand some of the things that are talked about there. But it doesn\u2019t cross that line; it knows where the line is. I think, in a culture where we often don\u2019t know where the line is, we can get a little embarrassed with the Song of Solomon.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019m so grateful for this; because I think so many, like myself\u2014I was exposed, very early, to pornography, probably four years old and on\u2014it was just around. I was exposed to it through other people and, then, have sexual abuse.\n\nI\u2019ll never forget the first time I went to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> and heard God\u2019s plan for sexual intimacy. I was blown away; because I had been bombarded with the world\/the culture\u2014all that they said about sex and sexual intimacy, even in marriage\u2014and I had never heard God\u2019s plan.\n\nSo I am so excited that we have a healthy, biblical view of what God says. Thanks for doing that.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, if somebody is in their Bible-reading schedule, and they open their schedule this morning\u2014and it says, \u201cSong of Solomon, Chapter 1,\u201d and they\u2019re going to start reading through this\u2014what do they need to know, going in? How can they have the best experience reading through this?\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Here\u2019s the thing that\u2019s really helped me a lot. In the Song of Songs, there are people that speak to one another. There are these daughters of Jerusalem that enter in\u2014I think even some of the ways some of the Bibles are laid out, it tells you who the speaker is. You feel almost like you\u2019re reading a play, kind of like the manuscript for the high school musical you were in, which tells you who has which part. And there\u2019s an aspect of that\u2014there\u2019s a dramatic aspect to it.\n\nBut this is love poetry, and it\u2019s organized a little more loosely. It\u2019s really a collection of songs. I think, very likely, these were songs that were sung at weddings in biblical times. This is what you would sing during that week-long celebration. You know, you\u2019d hear a song coming from over the wall; you kind of join in the song, because you knew these words.\n\nI think of the Song of Songs\u2014these are like the liner notes in an album of love songs; they kind of hang together. You feel like: \u201cThis is this part of their story,\u201d \u201cThis is another part of their story\u201d; but you\u2019re not expecting it to tell you everything about their relationship or describe everything\u2014it\u2019s a little looser than that\u2014the way a collection of love songs would be.\n\nI think, when you enter into a book of the Bible, knowing what kind of a book it is\u2014it clarifies your expectations. I think that\u2019s important to know.\n\nI also think it\u2019s important to know that this intimate relationship is heading in the direction of marriage. This isn\u2019t just about sexual relationships; it\u2019s about romance leading to marriage, and it\u2019s in that context that sexual desire has its fulfillment. You can follow that arc through the story.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Should it be read chronologically? Do we think that all of these scenes are happening in chronological order?\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes, I think it\u2019s loosely chronological. I would definitely read the book in order. I would also read it slowly, and that\u2019s hard; it\u2019s hard to slow down. I love a single-column for some of my Bible reading. I have a Bible in my hands, right now, that\u2019s exactly the opposite of that. All the words are crammed together in this little Bible, with two columns. You feel like you should go on and read the next thing, rather than reading a line or a verse and just kind of savoring it and letting it sink in.\n\nAnother thing is\u2014you know, there are parts of the Bible that are very straightforward\u2014the historical parts, like, \u201cThis is who did what to whom, and here\u2019s what happened\u2026\u201d You just kind of read it fairly rapidly. You get the story, and you\u2019re absorbed in the story. Poetry doesn\u2019t work that way\u2014it gives you an image\/a picture\u2014maybe something from the natural world. You kind of have to think about, \u201cWhy is that comparison being made?\u201d It\u2019s an invitation to reflection.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>When you\u2019re reading it, are you reading it as, \u201cThis is a man and a woman,\u201d or are you reading it\u2014do you read it another time, thinking, \u201cThis is God pursuing me\u201d?\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>I think it\u2019s both\u2014it\u2019s both\/and\u2014and I think that\u2019s a very important part. This book operates on a horizontal level\/human level: romance and relationship; vertical level. Vertical level\u2014not because God gets mentioned a lot in the book\u2014but because, if we step back from the Song of Songs\u2014kind of pan out a little bit, so we\u2019re not just looking at the Song of Solomon; we\u2019re looking at the whole of Scripture\u2014we see that there is a big love story that\u2019s being told here about God\u2019s love for His people, which comes to marriage fulfillment\u2014in the relationship between Jesus Christ, the worthy groom, and the church of Christ, which is the bride of Christ\u2014that\u2019s the big picture here.\n\nEven a human-level relationship and romance that we find in the Song of Solomon is part of this bigger story of our soul\u2019s relationship to God, so I think we read the book with a kind of bifocal vision.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Tell me, then\u2014you just touched on it\u2014the first time I ever came across the Song of Solomon\u2014I\u2019m a new believer, I\u2019m reading the Bible, really, for the first time. My question, when I got there\u2014because I didn\u2019t understand it, initially\u2014was, \u201cWhy?\u201d I didn\u2019t know how the Bible was put together\/the canon of Scripture; but I found myself going: \u201cWhy\u2019s this book here? What is the real purpose of how this ended up in the 66 books? I\u2019m not sure!\u201d You started to hit on that\u2014why\u2019s it there?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And then you get to Ecclesiastes and you go, \u201cWhy is <em>this<\/em> there, too?\u201d\u2014right? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s not hard to understand why Ecclesiastes is there on Monday morning; right? [Laughter]\n\nHere\u2019s, maybe, a way of thinking about it. What are God\u2019s two greatest commandments?\u2014love for God and love for one another. What is the Song of Solomon about?\u2014it is about love for God, and it is about love for one another. So why is this book here?\u2014for a lot of reasons; but it\u2019s talking about core issues, and it\u2019s also giving us a beautiful soundtrack for the love story of our redemption.\n\nAlso, you know, we need propositions about marriage\u2014we need, \u201cHusbands, love your wives,\u201d \u201cLay down your life for your wife the way Christ\u2026\u201d\u2014I mean, we need those kinds of propositions\/commands; but we also need stories, and poems, and songs so that we don\u2019t just know about a relationship; but we actually feel and experience it through the stories, and emotions, and experiences, and responses of others.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So if most of us are being catechized\u2014being instructed on marriage and relationships by our culture\u2014we\u2019re going to wind up in the ditch. How will reading the Song of Solomon\u2014what are the major themes that will correct from what the culture is training us or teaching us about relationships? How is it countercultural?\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; well, you know, in so many different ways. I think one is that, if you look closely at this love relationship, obviously, there\u2019s a physical attraction that ultimately finds sexual consummation. If you look closely at what is being said, this man and this woman value the personhood of the man or woman with whom they\u2019re falling in love.\n\nThey express\u2014here\u2019s just an example. It\u2019s interesting the way the man, as time goes on\u2014he\u2019s very attracted to this woman\u2019s physical beauty\u2014but then, when he sees how she perseveres in their relationship, he starts praising her strength. That\u2019s not where he started, but he actually came to a deeper understanding of who she was. That\u2019s countercultural, really, I think, to see the whole personhood of another person\u2014the physical, but also the character\/the emotional. That would be one example of what\u2019s countercultural.\n\nIt\u2019s very countercultural to have something erotic that\u2019s not pornographic\u2014that\u2019s countercultural.\n\nIt\u2019s countercultural, I think, to see a relationship that is absolutely based on equality\u2014both seeing, in the other person, the image of God. He praises her as much as she praises him; there\u2019s a symmetry and, in effect, equality; but there\u2019s also a very strong complementarity. There are ways in which this woman is drawn to the leadership qualities of this man, which do not in any way infringe upon her dignity or equality.\n\nPutting all of that together\u2014what is equal before God\/what is complementary in the way that human beings are made to relate, particularly in the context of marriage\u2014all of that is countercultural.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; help me with the last chapter of this book, where it looks like the brothers have come alongside the wife and said, \u201cWe\u2019re putting a hedge around you.\u201d If they\u2019re married by this point, what\u2019s going on there?\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know if I can wrap that up in an easy way, Bob. [Laughter] I will try, though.\n\nThese brothers don\u2019t come off so well. They\u2019re kind of intruding on the relationship in certain ways. You can read their comments at the end either a little more favorably or a little less favorably.\n\nI will say not everything in the book, necessarily, is chronological; so I wouldn\u2019t get caught up in the fact that, \u201cOh, this is\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cat the end.\u201d\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; that\u2019s not a stumbling block for me.\n\nRead most favorably, they are being appropriately protective of the purity and virginity of their sister. I think that is a thing that is, not just a personal commitment, but has a communal context\u2014that there\u2019s something at stake for a family.\n\nBut I also find the woman being corrective of her brothers, saying, \u201cYes, that\u2019s good advice for that stage of my relationship; but I actually have entered into my womanhood in the context of marriage here.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I will tell you\u2014that last chapter\u2014we wrote our vows when we got married. Today, I don\u2019t think I would want that to be the case. I think it\u2019s fine for you to express sentiment to one another in a marriage ceremony, but the vows ought to be vows. You ought to be saying: \u201cI promise this\u2026\u201d and \u201cI promise that\u2026\u201d\n\nI was doing more love poetry in my vows than I was doing pledging things. But I did go to Song of Solomon 8, where it says, \u201cPut me as a seal over your heart, for love is as strong as death.\u201d That\u2019s a statement of the power and the commitment of love that needs to be reinvigorated in our culture today; doesn\u2019t it?\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; you know, I think that\u2019s one of the most famous verses in the Song of Songs. You, often, do hear it at a wedding.\n\nBy the way, just on the topic of vows, my own conviction\u2014and Lisa and I wrote our own vows. They were kind of lengthy; they were too long\u2014all these things that, when you\u2019re 18\u2014 [Laughter] You were thinking you were going into ministry and like you have something to say.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Dave wrote a song for me\u2014not to make you guys feel bad\u2014but\u2014\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; I blessed my family by <em>not<\/em> writing a song. [Laughter] But actually, I love having the traditional wedding vows in a marriage; because it emphasizes: \u201cThis isn\u2019t about your creative relationship and who you are in your individuality. It\u2019s about you entering into a God-given institution that\u2019s much bigger than all of us.\u201d\n\nBut in the context of a wedding, it\u2019s great to have some poetry; because it awakens that passion. It\u2019s just such a strong image\u2014this \u201cseal upon your heart.\u201d The ancient, probably cylindrical, seal that was kind of like your signet ring\u2014like the thing that you would put into wax or roll into clay\u2014that\u2019s such a strong sign of possession. That\u2019s the thing that you would hold onto, even more than your credit card chip\u2014is your seal. Then to enter into a relationship of mutual possession\u2014where you\u2019re just giving everything to this person that you\u2019re committed to in a lifelong love relationship\u2014that\u2019s the beautiful image there: it\u2019s the constancy of love; it\u2019s permanence.\n\nHere is the place in the Song of Songs where God is mentioned explicitly. This love\u2014you know, we\u2019ve been talking about it on a human level\u2014but we\u2019re talking, now, about a love that\u2019s stronger than death. I mean, the love that\u2019s stronger than death is the love of Jesus Christ, which is demonstrated on the cross and vindicated through the empty tomb. That\u2019s the fiery, passionate love of God for us in Jesus Christ. The Song of Solomon is pointing us toward that; it\u2019s awakening that desire for that kind of love. That relationship is available to every one of us.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I love, toward the end of your book, where you\u2019re talking about the seal, and the covenant, and the perseverance through good times and bad times\u2014the story of Benjamin Warfield, which I had never heard. What a picture of God\u2019s love for us and how that reflects in marriage.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; Benjamin Breckenridge Warfield\u2014Presbyterians will know this particularly\u2014but a famous theologian of old Princeton and very well-read across the country, because he had theological essays that were just household across the country\u2014very influential theologian.\n\nHis wife was tragically struck by lightning, caught in a storm\u2014they were honeymooning, I think it was in Germany\/somewhere in Europe\u2014and she was never the same. She was basically an invalid from that time on. B.B. Warfield was so devoted to her that he rarely traveled more than an hour from their home; I mean, he would go to teach his class at Princeton; he would go back home.\n\nYou know, \u201cWhat is the exact quote?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s in the book\u2014but it was said of Dr. Warfield: \u201cHe had two great interests in life: his studies and Mrs. Warfield.\u201d What a powerful testimony to the constancy of love\/selflessness; and I think\u2014hopefully, not surprising\u2014but actually, sensible that a theologian would have this kind of devotion to his wife.\n\nI think another way of looking at that devotion to his studies and his theology\u2014I mean, that was all about his love for Christ. He was living out the horizontal and the vertical: love for God\/love for espoused neighbor. That\u2019s the testimony and the witness of B.B. Warfield.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s beautiful, and inspiring, because he was living out his vows.\n\nFor me, after being a believer for a long time\u2014I\u2019ve given my life to Jesus, I\u2019ve served Him in ministry, Dave and I have been in ministry for 38 years\u2014but I remember this\u2014one day thinking about the Bridegroom and how Jesus is the groom; and He\u2019s coming back for me. I decided to renew my vows with God\u2014went out into the woods, where I have this secluded place, where I have basically built an altar of rocks of prayers that I\u2019ve laid down. Dave\u2019s been there\u2014it\u2019s this big place.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s a big mound.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>And getting bigger, maybe!\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It is getting bigger.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It is; it grows by the week.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Actually, one of our sons proposed to his wife there. It\u2019s become almost a sanctuary for us.\n\nBut I\u2019ll never forget\u2014one day I decided, \u201cI\u2019m going to renew my vows and my covenant with God.\u201d I went out there, got on my knees, and I basically spoke wedding vows to the Groom, who was coming for me\/re-surrendered my life to Him. As you\u2019ve been a believer and follower of Christ for awhile, you know that it\u2019s amazing; it\u2019s wonderful; you give your life to Him; but you also know it\u2019s hard, and there\u2019s tragedy and hard times.\n\nI\u2019ll never forget that day that I surrendered to Him; and I bought myself a ring, almost kind of as that seal\/as a sign. I always wear it on my right hand to remember that my King and my Groom is coming back for me. I love this idea that our perfect Groom is Jesus, who\u2019s coming back for us.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, that\u2019s where you point us, Dr. Ryken, in the book, <em>The Love of Loves in the Song of Songs<\/em>. You keep reminding us there\u2019s a great love story going on here, but it\u2019s a picture of a greater love story to come.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>I love what you\u2019re talking about, Ann. That is exactly the kind of thing the Puritans would have done\u2014very tangible, covenant-oriented, bed-rock promises that God has made to us and that we make back to God. Beyond that, I mean, very Old Testament to raise up an Ebenezer; you\u2019ve got your stones of remembrance. I think it\u2019s different for each person; but I think, \u201cWow, there\u2019s such wisdom in doing tangible things to reinforce it.\u201d That love relationship, which is symbolized in the ring on your right hand, that\u2019s forever\u2014that is forever\u2014your relationship with Jesus.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>We want to be living into\/living towards that destiny.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Thank you for pointing us in that direction; and thank you for this book and for your work on it, and for being here and sharing this with us.\n\n<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Yes; I\u2019m glad to do it! Thank you!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We have copies of Dr. Ryken\u2019s book, <em>The Love of Loves in the Song of Songs<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy. This is a great book for you to go through together, as a couple, or maybe in a small group series\u2014<em>The Love of Loves in the Song of Songs<\/em> by Dr. Phil Ryken. Order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nThinking this week about the Song of Solomon, I always think about the hour on Saturday afternoon, at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, where we talk very candidly about intimacy\/about sexual intimacy in marriage. So many couples come up to us and say: \u201cThank you for that hour. We have no place else to go, where we can get a biblical perspective on sex and intimacy in marriage.\u201d\n\nI have the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, here with us. This week, as we\u2019re encouraging listeners to attend a getaway, dealing with these kinds of important practical issues is a part of what the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> is all about.\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>Yes, the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> is a whole weekend that basically is a lot like the conversations we\u2019ve been having with Dr. Ryken. Song of Solomon is one of those books that goes deep when it comes to spiritual intimacy, and emotional intimacy, and physical intimacy. It doesn\u2019t dodge anything. That\u2019s what I love about <em>Weekends to Remember<\/em>\u2014is that you get a couple, face to face, often talking about things that you just have avoided. It\u2019s not going to happen unless you prioritize it.\n\nI want to challenge you\u2014that if you haven\u2019t been to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>; or you\u2019re in a season, where you go, \u201cI need something to jolt and to jumpstart\u2026\u201d; or maybe you\u2019re in a good season, but you want to get a <em>great<\/em> season in your marriage\u2014the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> and setting time aside is an opportunity you have right now, this week, to take advantage of the half-price sale. There are locations all over the nation; you will not regret it.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, and sign up for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. Save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call if you have any questions or if you\u2019d like to register by phone: 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear about an acrobatic stunt that Dave and Ann Wilson attempted that went tragically wrong. It\u2019s a great story, and it unpacks something about marriage that I think all of us can benefit from. We\u2019ll share that story with you tomorrow. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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