{"id":305335,"date":"2019-09-10T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2019-09-10T10:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/waiting-on-love\/"},"modified":"2019-09-10T06:00:04","modified_gmt":"2019-09-10T10:00:04","slug":"waiting-on-love","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/waiting-on-love\/","title":{"rendered":"Waiting on Love"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Phil Ryken helps us understand the deeper meaning behind the Song of Songs by walking us through each chapter. He also reflects on his honeymoon and their first disagreement.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-09-10.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:15","filesize":"24.04M","filesize_raw":"25206485","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822,2088],"tags":[2976,6715,6195,6714,5449,4207],"podcast_series":[8300],"cwp_profile":[9311],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305335","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-romance-and-sex","tag-christian-marriage","tag-engaged-couples","tag-sexual-intimacy-in-marriage","tag-song-of-solomon","tag-song-of-songs","tag-wedding","podcast_series-the-love-of-loves-in-the-song-of-songs","cwp_profile-philip-graham-ryken","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305335\/waiting-on-love","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305335\/waiting-on-love","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"GC5XSKz96S\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/waiting-on-love\/\">Waiting on Love<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/waiting-on-love\/embed\/#?secret=GC5XSKz96S\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Waiting on Love&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"GC5XSKz96S\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-09-10.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-09-10.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>For us to understand God\u2019s purposes with marital intimacy, Dr. Phil Ryken says we need to first understand what he calls \u201cthe beauty of the why.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> God\u2019s design is for life-long love relationships, which are bound together in covenant promises to be sealed and secured with sexual intimacy\u2014this is part of God\u2019s design. These are the most sacred vows that you can take to another human being. It makes sense then that God would want something to secure and seal these; but if you seal the wrong relationship, or seal the right relationship at the wrong time, that design is disrupted. What was intended to actually bring greater security to a relationship actually, now, brings greater threat to it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, September 10<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. There is great beauty in God\u2019s design for marital intimacy, and it\u2019s all built around the idea of the covenant. We\u2019ll spend time talking about that today with Phil Ryken. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Tuesday edition. Right out of the box, I want to remind <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners\u2014before we get into what we\u2019re going to talk about today\u2014we have something special going on, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> this week and next week. If you want to sign up for one of our upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways, we\u2019re going to be hosting about three dozen of these events this fall in cities all across the country. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou sign up this week or next week, you save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. Here\u2019s your opportunity to have a weekend away together, focusing on one another, learning more about God\u2019s design for marriage. You can save some money if you sign up now. Go to FamilyLIfeToday.com for more information about the getaway. Find out when it\u2019s going to be in a city near where you live; make plans to attend; and register this week or next week to save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can register, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to register for one of these upcoming events. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d We hope to see you at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m just curious with what we\u2019re going to be talking about today, Dave. Have you ever done a sermon series at your church, in 30 years of pastoral ministry, on the Song of Solomon?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Will you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes! I have a book that I can reference. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Now, that we have this book we\u2019ll do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Honestly, we\u2019ve talked often about marriage\u2014often about sexual intimacy, from a God-perspective\u2014and referenced different parts of the Song of Solomon\u2014have never walked through it like this book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014like Dr. Phillip Ryken does, who joins us, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Great to be with you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Phil Ryken is the president of Wheaton College in Wheaton, Illinois. Your new book, <em>The Love of Loves in the Song of Songs<\/em>, about the Song of Solomon\u2014you told us this comes from a series of chapel messages you did. I\u2019m wondering, \u201cYou\u2019re talking to college kids about the Song of Songs?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; you know, I do different things in chapel each year. Interesting\u2014my daughter was a sophomore at Wheaton that year\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s interesting.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> She had a freshman on her floor, who I don\u2019t think she knew who she was yet, say: \u201cIs this just me? Or is it really embarrassing? [Laughter] Dr. Ryken is talking about the Song of Solomon in chapel.\u201d She said, \u201cYou think it\u2019s embarrassing for <em>you<\/em>?!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, tackling this with college students\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; oh, they need it. College students are thinking a lot about love, sex, romance, marriage\u2014just all of these topics. <em>And<\/em> they\u2019re also thinking about: \u201cHow do I grow a love relationship with Jesus Christ? What does that look like?\u201d This book, in so many ways, is touching the bases. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you get into the passages about picnics in the Song of Solomon, and you\u2019ve got a room full of college students\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> One of the things we did was\u2014I asked our theater group if they could present the Song of Solomon dramatically, each passage before I would speak on it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil: <\/strong>There were four students: two men and two women. Mark Lewis, is the director\u2014did something really smart at the beginning\u2014he said, \u201cGiven the content of this book, I don\u2019t want to put one person in one role so they\u2019re kind of associated with that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt wasn\u2019t presented as a kind of drama; it was presently, <em>dramatically<\/em>, by these four students. They wore very simple, almost rustic clothing. One of them always brought a guitar. Some of the lyrics they actually did as songs that they composed themselves. It made the whole thing come alive. You realize: \u201cOh, this is a love song; that\u2019s what this is. This is poetic. I can see the story.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember one particular day\u2014there\u2019s a conflict that comes up in the middle of the book. One of the men spoke his last line, and he walked off the stage, and walked right out of chapel\u2014you knew: \u201cThis relationship is broken.\u201d The whole thing came alive. Then, when you teach after that, people have seen it; they\u2019ve felt it; they\u2019re into it. It turned out to be a great experience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There you go\u2014a little pro tip for when you teach through this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was going to say, Dave\u2014\u201cCould you guys come and do that at our church?\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Why not? Probably; we probably could. I mean, those students have graduated now. I think there may actually be video content. You may be able to find this on YouTube or something like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love that you tackled this\u2014because in our culture, what college students are exposed to\u2014it\u2019s great that you\u2019re giving them a <em>biblical<\/em> view of God\u2019s love for us, of a marriage relationship, and relationships in general. Way to go!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Thank you. Here\u2019s what I think. A lot of students on Christ-centered campuses, like Wheaton College, or Christian students that are at secular institutions\u2014they know, at least, some of the do\u2019s and don\u2019ts that the Bible talks about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was talking with my kids this week. We\u2019ve got five children; four of them are still at home. Our junior high daughter had a concussion; she missed the sexuality and relationships section\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014at school?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014at school\/at a Christian school. Her older sister just said: \u201cOh, basically, don\u2019t have sex before marriage\u2014that\u2019s it. Once you have that, that\u2019s what it is.\u201d I\u2019m sure it [presentation] was actually much more comprehensive, nuanced, complete. [Laughter] That\u2019s an example; they know, or they think they know, the biblical do\u2019s and don\u2019ts. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat they don\u2019t know is the beauty of the why\u2014the beauty of God\u2019s design for our relationships. If you don\u2019t understand, and have not sensed and experienced the beauty of the why, then, when the culture is telling you the do\u2019s and don\u2019ts are in the wrong place, you don\u2019t have a defense for it. It\u2019s just a rule; it\u2019s not something you\u2019ve understood in a deep way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t know any better place to understand the beauty of the why, in human relationships and our soul\u2019s relationship to God, than the Song of Solomon. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got to go there, now, that you\u2019ve mentioned that\u2014it\u2019s in your book\u2014Song of Solomon 2:7: \u201c\u2026do not stir up or awaken love until it pleases.\u201d What\u2019s the beauty of the why? Why not?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> That\u2019s an interesting refrain, because it comes up several times in the book. There\u2019s so much to say, but it comes up in a beautiful way. It\u2019s one thing, for example, to have your dad tell you, \u201cThis is where the boundary line is.\u201d It\u2019s very different if there\u2019s a young beautiful woman, who\u2019s obviously caught up in the passion of romance, and <em>she\u2019s <\/em>the one telling you, \u201cDo not awaken desire before its time.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a repeated warning or caution in the book, and that\u2019s the biblical way of putting exclamation marks on something. We don\u2019t have exclamation marks in Hebrew and Greek; we have repetition\u2014so repetition really stresses that for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat\u2019s the beauty of the why? Partly, it is\u2014God\u2019s design is for life-long love relationships, which are bound together in covenant promises to be sealed and secured with sexual intimacy. This is part of God\u2019s design. These are the most sacred vows that you can take to another human being. It makes sense, then, that God would want something that would secure and seal these; but if you seal the wrong relationship, or seal the right relationship at the wrong time, that design is disrupted. What was really intended to bring greater security to a relationship actually now brings greater threat to it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the ways I love how Song of Solomon develops this is\u2014this woman, who gives these cautions\/this woman, who has been deeply in love with a man that\u2019s been true from the opening verse\u2014this whole thing is headed toward marriage. She is not saying, \u201cHey, don\u2019t go there,\u201d\u2014like intimate relationships are bad, or you shouldn\u2019t have passion, or sex is some kind of bad thing. The whole book is showing you: \u201cShe\u2019s heading in this direction in this relationship. She just wants to make sure it has the proper safeguards and boundaries around it so that it can flourish.\u201d That makes a big difference.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> As we think about this book and the romantic love that it pictures, does it concern you that the average age for young men getting married today is 29 and for women it\u2019s 27.5?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> As somebody, who got engaged when I was 18, I guess, yes! [Laughter] Maybe I was 19; we married very young. Our parents did as well. Yes, it concerns me for a lot of reasons. We definitely live in a deferred commitment culture. People want to keep their options open. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a lot of students in our home for this or that\u2014a lot of things we do for students on the campus of Wheaton College. I rarely do anything, where I\u2019ve got to have an RSVP\u2014I\u2019ve got to know exactly how many people are coming. I just plan everything\u2014it\u2019s very open-ended: \u201cHey! Come if you can. Bring a friend if you want. If you have to leave early, that\u2019s fine.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s that kind of culture, where people, even on small commitments, have trouble like making commitment\/following through because something better might come along\u2014let alone the important, sacred vows you make in marriage. It does concern me. I think it\u2019s deferred commitment. I think it delays some of the purposes that God has for us in relationships. I also think it opens the door to sexual temptation in ways that are damaging for our culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of that said, some people are called to marriage much later in life; that\u2019s a beautiful thing. I have a good personal friend, who married for the first time at age 70, and it was <em>awesome<\/em>. It\u2019s not about this age or that age.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, when you see it as a culture\u2014and you don\u2019t see people making that commitment\u2014it\u2019s concerning to me for several reasons. Ann and Dave are in pastoral ministry; they\u2019ve got a front row seat for this too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Sometimes, it is right for a couple to wait; but there is a <em>fear<\/em> that\u2019s really real out there. People are afraid to marry, because they\u2019ve grown up in a divorce culture. People are waiting and waiting. I think a lot of them don\u2019t ever want to get married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, too, that\u2019s why we were married young\u2014I was 19; Dave was 22. What we\u2019re passionate about is equipping couples, before coming into marriage, to have some tools that they can pull from\u2014to have this relationship with God\u2014of knowing how He comes in, and centers us, and gives us real hope, and proper expectations.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I\u2019d tell any couple that\u2019s in any kind of relationship at all: \u201cYou need to have a mentor.\u201d That\u2019s like one of the first questions: \u201cWho\u2019s your mentor? Who\u2019s walking through this relationship with you?\u201d When you have somebody in your life like that\u2014that can show you some of the how and can say to you: \u201cYou know what? By God\u2019s grace, you can do this. Doesn\u2019t matter what your family background is. By God\u2019s grace, you can do this,\u201d\u2014people need that kind of hope and encouragement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> All of our kids were married before they were 25. I hear the argument in the culture today that says: \u201cThey\u2019re not ready. You\u2019re not mature.\u201d I don\u2019t know: \u201cThe frontal cortex is not fully-formed yet,\u201d or \u201cThey don\u2019t have the maturity to do this.\u201d I go, \u201cWe are selling young people <em>way short<\/em> when we say they\u2019re not ready, at 21, to be able to make a bond and a commitment and live that out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I hear people on cerebral cortex, because I have a couple young men that I\u2019ve raised in our household. It\u2019s a process; [Laughter] it\u2019s a process. I would never want to rush someone into marriage that they\u2019re not ready for. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, when you make a marriage decision, you\u2019re definitely not making a decision about who measures up to your standards or who\u2019s good enough for you, which is subtly the way a lot of people think, maybe especially men. You\u2019re actually making a decision about who you will become. You have to be able to look another person in the eye and say: \u201cBy God\u2019s grace, I can make a commitment to you. I believe that what will happen in our lives, as a result of this commitment, goes far beyond anything we could experience.\u201d Those are the kinds of things to be thinking about as you\u2019re approaching the possibility of marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You share a story in your book about a couple, on a honeymoon, who went through a real tragedy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Who would this couple be, Ann? [Laughter] And what have you been doing, ready my book?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You wrote it, so let\u2019s hear about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Ann\u2019s talking about an experience that Lisa and I had on our honeymoon. Different pastors have different approaches to things. I don\u2019t do that much self-disclosure from the pulpit; but when I do it, it\u2019s because I know that it\u2019s really going to help people understand the Bible and really apply it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the stories I shared here is about an argument that we had on our honeymoon. I don\u2019t remember what the argument was about; Lisa may. I almost never remember what our arguments are about, which is kind of a signal that it really wasn\u2019t all that important.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that you\u2019re not paying attention, maybe. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Well, yes; maybe\u2014[Laughter]\u2014that it really wasn\u2019t all that important. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it is also a sign: \u201cHey, it was resolved,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cYou don\u2019t need to think about things that are resolved\u2014you\u2019re not holding on to them; you\u2019re letting them go.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI use that illustration because\u2014you get to the middle of the Song of Songs\u2014everything seems to be going along great. This couple\u2014they\u2019re in love; they are speaking to one other words of affection; they are noticing the attributes of one another that are admirable. There\u2019s a beautiful reciprocity here; there\u2019s a symmetry to the relationship. You see as much of the strength of the woman and the beauty of the man\u2014you see all of that in this relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tObviously, they\u2019re married; because there\u2019s been a procession\/a wedding procession. There has been the exchange of vows and now the language is: \u201cThis is my sister; this is my bride.\u201d So, obviously, we\u2019re in a different context\u2014this is not courtship; it\u2019s marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, shockingly, things break down. There\u2019s a breach in their intimacy. She closes the door on him. By the time she opens the door, he\u2019s gone and doesn\u2019t want to come in\u2014that\u2019s real life there. I think for all of it\u2014and this is one of the reasons to really get into the details of the Song of Solomon\u2014because for all of the beauty there, and all of the romance, there\u2019s also a lot of reality in some of the struggles of life. I think it happens to all of us in our relationships. Maybe that\u2019s a good word for somebody listening today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wait a minute. All you\u2019re going to tell us is: \u201cWe had a fight on our honeymoon,\u201d and \u201cI don\u2019t know what is was about\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Ann didn\u2019t actually ask me a question; she just like referred to it, so\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Give us the details. What happened on the honeymoon?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There was a condo in Vail, Colorado. Let\u2019s hear about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> There was. Actually, it was such a great honeymoon experience. People were generous with us and gave us a place to enjoy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLisa tried to kill me on our honeymoon, actually\u2014[Laughter]\u2014that\u2019s not in the book. We went on a hike up a very dangerous place. I\u2019m like, \u201cThis really does not seem that safe,\u201d\u2014I\u2019m kind of scared of heights. We made it up this place. When we came back down, I noticed\u2014actually, that wasn\u2019t the path; the path is over here. [Laughter] There were other people, looking over the edge; and they were like, \u201cYou came up that?!\u201d [Laughter] I\u2019m like, \u201cYes; yes we did!\u201d Anyway, we had a great experience on our honeymoon in all kinds of ways\u2014a lot of special memories there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe had this argument; I stormed out. As I was dealing with that with the Lord\u2014and walking through that with Him, out in the parking lot nearby\u2014I just made a commitment: \u201cYou know, if there\u2019s an issue, we\u2019re going to work it out. Obviously, I need to go back in there. We need to work this through,\u201d which we did. That was really what came out of that experience for me\u2014is that kind of commitment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t know if I talk about it in the book or not. One thing that\u2019s been key for us, as couple, we take what Paul says in Ephesians very literally: \u201cDon\u2019t let the sun go down on your anger.\u201d If you can work out today what comes up today, you\u2019ve got a fresh slate tomorrow; and you\u2019re able to go on in life. We\u2019ve tried to operate with short accounts that way all through marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s just a good reminder that, even on a honeymoon, things can go wrong. Throughout life, that can happen and <em>will<\/em> happen. That doesn\u2019t mean you\u2019ve married the wrong person; that doesn\u2019t mean your marriage will be wrecked\u2014but that is part of the normalcy of marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> For sure, it doesn\u2019t. One thing it would be interesting to ask\u2014at a marriage conference, or a retreat, or something\u2014like: \u201cHow many people here had an argument on their honeymoon?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2019ve done that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I bet it\u2019s a lot of hands.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So many hands. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> What I say, when I\u2019m doing pre-marriage preparation with a couple, working with them on their relationship\u2014one of the things I like to ask is, \u201cTell me what your experience is of conflict and argument, and how have you worked that through?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt really worries me if I hear, \u201cWe don\u2019t have any arguments.\u201d Okay; well, we really don\u2019t know much about this relationship yet. What I like to see is conflicts that are worked through in a way that builds up the relationship. If you\u2019ve got that, so many other things are going to fall into place as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me ask you this\u2014you said, after that honeymoon fight, you\u2019re never going to walk out again; you\u2019re going to go back. Has that been true?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; I think it has been. The number of times, when we have a conflict now\u2014compared to when we were first in a relationship\u2014I mean, it\u2019s just so different. It\u2019s so different as time goes on. Partly, I think, over time, you\u2019re just less self-centered. There are a lot of things you\u2019re able to work out. Yes; we work things out; we work things out if we\u2019ve got a thing to work out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> My wife\u2019s the kind\u2014when I walk out, she just follows me\u2014she\u2019s right behind me, saying, \u201cCome back here and fight like a man.\u201d [Laughter] That\u2019s, literally, what she says. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> What about personal space? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know what that is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, as a reader is reading through the Song of Solomon\u2014somebody in their regular Bible study\u2014they get to this book; they open it up\u2014they really do need some kind of a guide to take them through this rather than trying to read it cold; don\u2019t they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I would say, \u201cYes.\u201d On the one hand, the main themes of Scripture are so clear, that any person, who is diligent in reading the Bible, and reading the Bible again\u2014I think of my grandparents were only educated up through the eighth grade\u2014they were <em>profound<\/em> readers and students of the Bible. There weren\u2019t many topics about any area of life that my grandparents could not give rich biblical wisdom to, so I don\u2019t like to oversell the use of tools and things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, boy, it\u2019s such a help, when you\u2019re reading any book of the Bible, to have some tools that say: \u201cHere\u2019s something to notice,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cLook at this...\u201d Then you can see that it\u2019s actually there. I think the more difficult a book is, maybe, the more helpful the tools are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSong of Solomon is written in poetry; that doesn\u2019t always come naturally to people. By the way, 40 percent of the Bible is written in poetry; so, if you want to be a student of the Bible, you\u2019re going to need to learn how to read poetry and think about poetry. You really have to slow down; you\u2019ve got to take in the images\u2014it touches a different part of your brain. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019re reading the Bible as literature; right? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; reading the Bible as literature, which my father taught me to do. I think it is helpful to have those tools. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to come back to our listeners, Bob; because you tried to distract me with my own troubles. [Laughter] I want to say\u2014people, who are listening, that are in a place where they\u2019re in a broken relationship: \u201cGod has grace for you; God has mercy for you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, if you\u2019re in a broken relationship, it takes more than one person to bring healing and reconciliation to that relationship. God can bring grace, and healing, and reconciliation in His relationship with you in the context of that broken relationship. As you walk with Him in forgiveness and repentance, you\u2019re going to see the Holy Spirit do amazing things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, you don\u2019t know this, because you haven\u2019t had the chance yet to read Dave and Ann\u2019s book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, but the thesis of that book is\u2014if there\u2019s something wrong in the horizontal relationship, we can trace that to there being something wrong in the vertical.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; look at Bob. I like how you\u2019re promoting our book. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will say this about your [Philip\u2019s] book. I really think this is such a helpful book, because it\u2019s the journey of a couple. You\u2019re walking us through the Song of Songs. I\u2019m thinking of pre-married couples, and married couples, and parents with their kids\u2014it\u2019s like you want a book that will help you walk through: \u201cWhat does a love relationship look like, all through marriage and conflict?\u201d and \u201cHow is that similar to our walk with God?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s why I loved your book; it does both, concurrently, together. You can\u2019t miss that they\u2019re tied together\u2014you did such a good job with that. I would highly recommend it for anybody to read. You want to know what it looks like from beginning toward the end?\u2014here it is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You want to do a deep dive into these eight chapters in the Bible?\u2014this will help you do that deep dive. I\u2019ll tell you\u2014it\u2019s a great deep dive to do; because you can read the Song of Solomon in 20 minutes, and you\u2019re done. You\u2019ll read it, and God will speak to you while reading it; but you\u2019ll scratch your head on some stuff and go: \u201cHow do I understand\u2026?\u201d \u201cWhat does that mean?\u201d \u201cWhat\u2019s going on here?\u201d This book will help answer a lot of those questions. It\u2019s a book we have in <em>our FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order a copy. Again, the book is called <em>The Love of Loves in the Song of Songs<\/em> by Dr. Phil Ryken. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order your copy, or call 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDon\u2019t forget\u2014while you\u2019re on our website, or when you get in touch with us, find out about a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway that is coming near where you live this fall. Block out the weekend, and register this week or next week, so that the two of you can get some time away together, focus on your marriage, understand better what God\u2019s Word has to say about your marriage, and strengthen your relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> is all about helping couples draw closer together to move from isolation to intimacy\u2014that\u2019s our goal. For the last 40-plus years, we\u2019ve had <em>millions<\/em> of couples, who have attended one of these getaways and found help and hope for their marriage. Again, if you register this week or next week, you save 50 percent off the regular registration fee as a couple. That\u2019s available to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can go, online, to FamilyLifeToday.com to take advantage of that special offer and to get more information about the getaway; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. We can answer any questions you have over the phone or get you registered by phone. Again, that\u2019s 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d We hope to see you this fall at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to continue talking with Dr. Phil Ryken about this wonderful book in the middle of our Bibles, the book of the Song of Songs and how we can better understand what God is teaching us through His Word. I hope you can join us back for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:15"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.04M"],"filesize_raw":["25206485"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305335.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305335.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Ryken helps us understand the deeper meaning behind the Song of Songs by walking us through each chapter. He also reflects on his honeymoon and their first disagreement.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-09-10.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>For us to understand God\u2019s purposes with marital intimacy, Dr. Phil Ryken says we need to first understand what he calls \u201cthe beauty of the why.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> God\u2019s design is for life-long love relationships, which are bound together in covenant promises to be sealed and secured with sexual intimacy\u2014this is part of God\u2019s design. These are the most sacred vows that you can take to another human being. It makes sense then that God would want something to secure and seal these; but if you seal the wrong relationship, or seal the right relationship at the wrong time, that design is disrupted. What was intended to actually bring greater security to a relationship actually, now, brings greater threat to it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, September 10<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. There is great beauty in God\u2019s design for marital intimacy, and it\u2019s all built around the idea of the covenant. We\u2019ll spend time talking about that today with Phil Ryken. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Tuesday edition. Right out of the box, I want to remind <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners\u2014before we get into what we\u2019re going to talk about today\u2014we have something special going on, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> this week and next week. If you want to sign up for one of our upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways, we\u2019re going to be hosting about three dozen of these events this fall in cities all across the country. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou sign up this week or next week, you save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. Here\u2019s your opportunity to have a weekend away together, focusing on one another, learning more about God\u2019s design for marriage. You can save some money if you sign up now. Go to FamilyLIfeToday.com for more information about the getaway. Find out when it\u2019s going to be in a city near where you live; make plans to attend; and register this week or next week to save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can register, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to register for one of these upcoming events. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d We hope to see you at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m just curious with what we\u2019re going to be talking about today, Dave. Have you ever done a sermon series at your church, in 30 years of pastoral ministry, on the Song of Solomon?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Will you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes! I have a book that I can reference. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Now, that we have this book we\u2019ll do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Honestly, we\u2019ve talked often about marriage\u2014often about sexual intimacy, from a God-perspective\u2014and referenced different parts of the Song of Solomon\u2014have never walked through it like this book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014like Dr. Phillip Ryken does, who joins us, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Great to be with you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Phil Ryken is the president of Wheaton College in Wheaton, Illinois. Your new book, <em>The Love of Loves in the Song of Songs<\/em>, about the Song of Solomon\u2014you told us this comes from a series of chapel messages you did. I\u2019m wondering, \u201cYou\u2019re talking to college kids about the Song of Songs?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; you know, I do different things in chapel each year. Interesting\u2014my daughter was a sophomore at Wheaton that year\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s interesting.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> She had a freshman on her floor, who I don\u2019t think she knew who she was yet, say: \u201cIs this just me? Or is it really embarrassing? [Laughter] Dr. Ryken is talking about the Song of Solomon in chapel.\u201d She said, \u201cYou think it\u2019s embarrassing for <em>you<\/em>?!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, tackling this with college students\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; oh, they need it. College students are thinking a lot about love, sex, romance, marriage\u2014just all of these topics. <em>And<\/em> they\u2019re also thinking about: \u201cHow do I grow a love relationship with Jesus Christ? What does that look like?\u201d This book, in so many ways, is touching the bases. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you get into the passages about picnics in the Song of Solomon, and you\u2019ve got a room full of college students\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> One of the things we did was\u2014I asked our theater group if they could present the Song of Solomon dramatically, each passage before I would speak on it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil: <\/strong>There were four students: two men and two women. Mark Lewis, is the director\u2014did something really smart at the beginning\u2014he said, \u201cGiven the content of this book, I don\u2019t want to put one person in one role so they\u2019re kind of associated with that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt wasn\u2019t presented as a kind of drama; it was presently, <em>dramatically<\/em>, by these four students. They wore very simple, almost rustic clothing. One of them always brought a guitar. Some of the lyrics they actually did as songs that they composed themselves. It made the whole thing come alive. You realize: \u201cOh, this is a love song; that\u2019s what this is. This is poetic. I can see the story.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember one particular day\u2014there\u2019s a conflict that comes up in the middle of the book. One of the men spoke his last line, and he walked off the stage, and walked right out of chapel\u2014you knew: \u201cThis relationship is broken.\u201d The whole thing came alive. Then, when you teach after that, people have seen it; they\u2019ve felt it; they\u2019re into it. It turned out to be a great experience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There you go\u2014a little pro tip for when you teach through this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was going to say, Dave\u2014\u201cCould you guys come and do that at our church?\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Why not? Probably; we probably could. I mean, those students have graduated now. I think there may actually be video content. You may be able to find this on YouTube or something like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love that you tackled this\u2014because in our culture, what college students are exposed to\u2014it\u2019s great that you\u2019re giving them a <em>biblical<\/em> view of God\u2019s love for us, of a marriage relationship, and relationships in general. Way to go!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Thank you. Here\u2019s what I think. A lot of students on Christ-centered campuses, like Wheaton College, or Christian students that are at secular institutions\u2014they know, at least, some of the do\u2019s and don\u2019ts that the Bible talks about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was talking with my kids this week. We\u2019ve got five children; four of them are still at home. Our junior high daughter had a concussion; she missed the sexuality and relationships section\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014at school?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> \u2014at school\/at a Christian school. Her older sister just said: \u201cOh, basically, don\u2019t have sex before marriage\u2014that\u2019s it. Once you have that, that\u2019s what it is.\u201d I\u2019m sure it [presentation] was actually much more comprehensive, nuanced, complete. [Laughter] That\u2019s an example; they know, or they think they know, the biblical do\u2019s and don\u2019ts. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat they don\u2019t know is the beauty of the why\u2014the beauty of God\u2019s design for our relationships. If you don\u2019t understand, and have not sensed and experienced the beauty of the why, then, when the culture is telling you the do\u2019s and don\u2019ts are in the wrong place, you don\u2019t have a defense for it. It\u2019s just a rule; it\u2019s not something you\u2019ve understood in a deep way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t know any better place to understand the beauty of the why, in human relationships and our soul\u2019s relationship to God, than the Song of Solomon. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got to go there, now, that you\u2019ve mentioned that\u2014it\u2019s in your book\u2014Song of Solomon 2:7: \u201c\u2026do not stir up or awaken love until it pleases.\u201d What\u2019s the beauty of the why? Why not?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> That\u2019s an interesting refrain, because it comes up several times in the book. There\u2019s so much to say, but it comes up in a beautiful way. It\u2019s one thing, for example, to have your dad tell you, \u201cThis is where the boundary line is.\u201d It\u2019s very different if there\u2019s a young beautiful woman, who\u2019s obviously caught up in the passion of romance, and <em>she\u2019s <\/em>the one telling you, \u201cDo not awaken desire before its time.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a repeated warning or caution in the book, and that\u2019s the biblical way of putting exclamation marks on something. We don\u2019t have exclamation marks in Hebrew and Greek; we have repetition\u2014so repetition really stresses that for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat\u2019s the beauty of the why? Partly, it is\u2014God\u2019s design is for life-long love relationships, which are bound together in covenant promises to be sealed and secured with sexual intimacy. This is part of God\u2019s design. These are the most sacred vows that you can take to another human being. It makes sense, then, that God would want something that would secure and seal these; but if you seal the wrong relationship, or seal the right relationship at the wrong time, that design is disrupted. What was really intended to bring greater security to a relationship actually now brings greater threat to it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the ways I love how Song of Solomon develops this is\u2014this woman, who gives these cautions\/this woman, who has been deeply in love with a man that\u2019s been true from the opening verse\u2014this whole thing is headed toward marriage. She is not saying, \u201cHey, don\u2019t go there,\u201d\u2014like intimate relationships are bad, or you shouldn\u2019t have passion, or sex is some kind of bad thing. The whole book is showing you: \u201cShe\u2019s heading in this direction in this relationship. She just wants to make sure it has the proper safeguards and boundaries around it so that it can flourish.\u201d That makes a big difference.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> As we think about this book and the romantic love that it pictures, does it concern you that the average age for young men getting married today is 29 and for women it\u2019s 27.5?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> As somebody, who got engaged when I was 18, I guess, yes! [Laughter] Maybe I was 19; we married very young. Our parents did as well. Yes, it concerns me for a lot of reasons. We definitely live in a deferred commitment culture. People want to keep their options open. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a lot of students in our home for this or that\u2014a lot of things we do for students on the campus of Wheaton College. I rarely do anything, where I\u2019ve got to have an RSVP\u2014I\u2019ve got to know exactly how many people are coming. I just plan everything\u2014it\u2019s very open-ended: \u201cHey! Come if you can. Bring a friend if you want. If you have to leave early, that\u2019s fine.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s that kind of culture, where people, even on small commitments, have trouble like making commitment\/following through because something better might come along\u2014let alone the important, sacred vows you make in marriage. It does concern me. I think it\u2019s deferred commitment. I think it delays some of the purposes that God has for us in relationships. I also think it opens the door to sexual temptation in ways that are damaging for our culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of that said, some people are called to marriage much later in life; that\u2019s a beautiful thing. I have a good personal friend, who married for the first time at age 70, and it was <em>awesome<\/em>. It\u2019s not about this age or that age.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, when you see it as a culture\u2014and you don\u2019t see people making that commitment\u2014it\u2019s concerning to me for several reasons. Ann and Dave are in pastoral ministry; they\u2019ve got a front row seat for this too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Sometimes, it is right for a couple to wait; but there is a <em>fear<\/em> that\u2019s really real out there. People are afraid to marry, because they\u2019ve grown up in a divorce culture. People are waiting and waiting. I think a lot of them don\u2019t ever want to get married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, too, that\u2019s why we were married young\u2014I was 19; Dave was 22. What we\u2019re passionate about is equipping couples, before coming into marriage, to have some tools that they can pull from\u2014to have this relationship with God\u2014of knowing how He comes in, and centers us, and gives us real hope, and proper expectations.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I\u2019d tell any couple that\u2019s in any kind of relationship at all: \u201cYou need to have a mentor.\u201d That\u2019s like one of the first questions: \u201cWho\u2019s your mentor? Who\u2019s walking through this relationship with you?\u201d When you have somebody in your life like that\u2014that can show you some of the how and can say to you: \u201cYou know what? By God\u2019s grace, you can do this. Doesn\u2019t matter what your family background is. By God\u2019s grace, you can do this,\u201d\u2014people need that kind of hope and encouragement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> All of our kids were married before they were 25. I hear the argument in the culture today that says: \u201cThey\u2019re not ready. You\u2019re not mature.\u201d I don\u2019t know: \u201cThe frontal cortex is not fully-formed yet,\u201d or \u201cThey don\u2019t have the maturity to do this.\u201d I go, \u201cWe are selling young people <em>way short<\/em> when we say they\u2019re not ready, at 21, to be able to make a bond and a commitment and live that out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I hear people on cerebral cortex, because I have a couple young men that I\u2019ve raised in our household. It\u2019s a process; [Laughter] it\u2019s a process. I would never want to rush someone into marriage that they\u2019re not ready for. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, when you make a marriage decision, you\u2019re definitely not making a decision about who measures up to your standards or who\u2019s good enough for you, which is subtly the way a lot of people think, maybe especially men. You\u2019re actually making a decision about who you will become. You have to be able to look another person in the eye and say: \u201cBy God\u2019s grace, I can make a commitment to you. I believe that what will happen in our lives, as a result of this commitment, goes far beyond anything we could experience.\u201d Those are the kinds of things to be thinking about as you\u2019re approaching the possibility of marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You share a story in your book about a couple, on a honeymoon, who went through a real tragedy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Who would this couple be, Ann? [Laughter] And what have you been doing, ready my book?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You wrote it, so let\u2019s hear about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Ann\u2019s talking about an experience that Lisa and I had on our honeymoon. Different pastors have different approaches to things. I don\u2019t do that much self-disclosure from the pulpit; but when I do it, it\u2019s because I know that it\u2019s really going to help people understand the Bible and really apply it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the stories I shared here is about an argument that we had on our honeymoon. I don\u2019t remember what the argument was about; Lisa may. I almost never remember what our arguments are about, which is kind of a signal that it really wasn\u2019t all that important.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that you\u2019re not paying attention, maybe. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil: <\/strong>Well, yes; maybe\u2014[Laughter]\u2014that it really wasn\u2019t all that important. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it is also a sign: \u201cHey, it was resolved,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cYou don\u2019t need to think about things that are resolved\u2014you\u2019re not holding on to them; you\u2019re letting them go.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI use that illustration because\u2014you get to the middle of the Song of Songs\u2014everything seems to be going along great. This couple\u2014they\u2019re in love; they are speaking to one other words of affection; they are noticing the attributes of one another that are admirable. There\u2019s a beautiful reciprocity here; there\u2019s a symmetry to the relationship. You see as much of the strength of the woman and the beauty of the man\u2014you see all of that in this relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tObviously, they\u2019re married; because there\u2019s been a procession\/a wedding procession. There has been the exchange of vows and now the language is: \u201cThis is my sister; this is my bride.\u201d So, obviously, we\u2019re in a different context\u2014this is not courtship; it\u2019s marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, shockingly, things break down. There\u2019s a breach in their intimacy. She closes the door on him. By the time she opens the door, he\u2019s gone and doesn\u2019t want to come in\u2014that\u2019s real life there. I think for all of it\u2014and this is one of the reasons to really get into the details of the Song of Solomon\u2014because for all of the beauty there, and all of the romance, there\u2019s also a lot of reality in some of the struggles of life. I think it happens to all of us in our relationships. Maybe that\u2019s a good word for somebody listening today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wait a minute. All you\u2019re going to tell us is: \u201cWe had a fight on our honeymoon,\u201d and \u201cI don\u2019t know what is was about\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Ann didn\u2019t actually ask me a question; she just like referred to it, so\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Give us the details. What happened on the honeymoon?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There was a condo in Vail, Colorado. Let\u2019s hear about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> There was. Actually, it was such a great honeymoon experience. People were generous with us and gave us a place to enjoy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLisa tried to kill me on our honeymoon, actually\u2014[Laughter]\u2014that\u2019s not in the book. We went on a hike up a very dangerous place. I\u2019m like, \u201cThis really does not seem that safe,\u201d\u2014I\u2019m kind of scared of heights. We made it up this place. When we came back down, I noticed\u2014actually, that wasn\u2019t the path; the path is over here. [Laughter] There were other people, looking over the edge; and they were like, \u201cYou came up that?!\u201d [Laughter] I\u2019m like, \u201cYes; yes we did!\u201d Anyway, we had a great experience on our honeymoon in all kinds of ways\u2014a lot of special memories there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe had this argument; I stormed out. As I was dealing with that with the Lord\u2014and walking through that with Him, out in the parking lot nearby\u2014I just made a commitment: \u201cYou know, if there\u2019s an issue, we\u2019re going to work it out. Obviously, I need to go back in there. We need to work this through,\u201d which we did. That was really what came out of that experience for me\u2014is that kind of commitment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t know if I talk about it in the book or not. One thing that\u2019s been key for us, as couple, we take what Paul says in Ephesians very literally: \u201cDon\u2019t let the sun go down on your anger.\u201d If you can work out today what comes up today, you\u2019ve got a fresh slate tomorrow; and you\u2019re able to go on in life. We\u2019ve tried to operate with short accounts that way all through marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s just a good reminder that, even on a honeymoon, things can go wrong. Throughout life, that can happen and <em>will<\/em> happen. That doesn\u2019t mean you\u2019ve married the wrong person; that doesn\u2019t mean your marriage will be wrecked\u2014but that is part of the normalcy of marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> For sure, it doesn\u2019t. One thing it would be interesting to ask\u2014at a marriage conference, or a retreat, or something\u2014like: \u201cHow many people here had an argument on their honeymoon?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2019ve done that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I bet it\u2019s a lot of hands.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So many hands. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> What I say, when I\u2019m doing pre-marriage preparation with a couple, working with them on their relationship\u2014one of the things I like to ask is, \u201cTell me what your experience is of conflict and argument, and how have you worked that through?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt really worries me if I hear, \u201cWe don\u2019t have any arguments.\u201d Okay; well, we really don\u2019t know much about this relationship yet. What I like to see is conflicts that are worked through in a way that builds up the relationship. If you\u2019ve got that, so many other things are going to fall into place as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me ask you this\u2014you said, after that honeymoon fight, you\u2019re never going to walk out again; you\u2019re going to go back. Has that been true?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; I think it has been. The number of times, when we have a conflict now\u2014compared to when we were first in a relationship\u2014I mean, it\u2019s just so different. It\u2019s so different as time goes on. Partly, I think, over time, you\u2019re just less self-centered. There are a lot of things you\u2019re able to work out. Yes; we work things out; we work things out if we\u2019ve got a thing to work out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> My wife\u2019s the kind\u2014when I walk out, she just follows me\u2014she\u2019s right behind me, saying, \u201cCome back here and fight like a man.\u201d [Laughter] That\u2019s, literally, what she says. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> What about personal space? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know what that is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, as a reader is reading through the Song of Solomon\u2014somebody in their regular Bible study\u2014they get to this book; they open it up\u2014they really do need some kind of a guide to take them through this rather than trying to read it cold; don\u2019t they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> I would say, \u201cYes.\u201d On the one hand, the main themes of Scripture are so clear, that any person, who is diligent in reading the Bible, and reading the Bible again\u2014I think of my grandparents were only educated up through the eighth grade\u2014they were <em>profound<\/em> readers and students of the Bible. There weren\u2019t many topics about any area of life that my grandparents could not give rich biblical wisdom to, so I don\u2019t like to oversell the use of tools and things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, boy, it\u2019s such a help, when you\u2019re reading any book of the Bible, to have some tools that say: \u201cHere\u2019s something to notice,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cLook at this...\u201d Then you can see that it\u2019s actually there. I think the more difficult a book is, maybe, the more helpful the tools are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSong of Solomon is written in poetry; that doesn\u2019t always come naturally to people. By the way, 40 percent of the Bible is written in poetry; so, if you want to be a student of the Bible, you\u2019re going to need to learn how to read poetry and think about poetry. You really have to slow down; you\u2019ve got to take in the images\u2014it touches a different part of your brain. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019re reading the Bible as literature; right? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Phil:<\/strong> Yes; reading the Bible as literature, which my father taught me to do. I think it is helpful to have those tools. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to come back to our listeners, Bob; because you tried to distract me with my own troubles. [Laughter] I want to say\u2014people, who are listening, that are in a place where they\u2019re in a broken relationship: \u201cGod has grace for you; God has mercy for you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, if you\u2019re in a broken relationship, it takes more than one person to bring healing and reconciliation to that relationship. God can bring grace, and healing, and reconciliation in His relationship with you in the context of that broken relationship. As you walk with Him in forgiveness and repentance, you\u2019re going to see the Holy Spirit do amazing things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, you don\u2019t know this, because you haven\u2019t had the chance yet to read Dave and Ann\u2019s book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, but the thesis of that book is\u2014if there\u2019s something wrong in the horizontal relationship, we can trace that to there being something wrong in the vertical.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; look at Bob. I like how you\u2019re promoting our book. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will say this about your [Philip\u2019s] book. I really think this is such a helpful book, because it\u2019s the journey of a couple. You\u2019re walking us through the Song of Songs. I\u2019m thinking of pre-married couples, and married couples, and parents with their kids\u2014it\u2019s like you want a book that will help you walk through: \u201cWhat does a love relationship look like, all through marriage and conflict?\u201d and \u201cHow is that similar to our walk with God?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s why I loved your book; it does both, concurrently, together. You can\u2019t miss that they\u2019re tied together\u2014you did such a good job with that. I would highly recommend it for anybody to read. You want to know what it looks like from beginning toward the end?\u2014here it is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You want to do a deep dive into these eight chapters in the Bible?\u2014this will help you do that deep dive. I\u2019ll tell you\u2014it\u2019s a great deep dive to do; because you can read the Song of Solomon in 20 minutes, and you\u2019re done. You\u2019ll read it, and God will speak to you while reading it; but you\u2019ll scratch your head on some stuff and go: \u201cHow do I understand\u2026?\u201d \u201cWhat does that mean?\u201d \u201cWhat\u2019s going on here?\u201d This book will help answer a lot of those questions. It\u2019s a book we have in <em>our FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order a copy. Again, the book is called <em>The Love of Loves in the Song of Songs<\/em> by Dr. Phil Ryken. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order your copy, or call 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDon\u2019t forget\u2014while you\u2019re on our website, or when you get in touch with us, find out about a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway that is coming near where you live this fall. Block out the weekend, and register this week or next week, so that the two of you can get some time away together, focus on your marriage, understand better what God\u2019s Word has to say about your marriage, and strengthen your relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> is all about helping couples draw closer together to move from isolation to intimacy\u2014that\u2019s our goal. For the last 40-plus years, we\u2019ve had <em>millions<\/em> of couples, who have attended one of these getaways and found help and hope for their marriage. Again, if you register this week or next week, you save 50 percent off the regular registration fee as a couple. That\u2019s available to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can go, online, to FamilyLifeToday.com to take advantage of that special offer and to get more information about the getaway; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. We can answer any questions you have over the phone or get you registered by phone. Again, that\u2019s 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d We hope to see you this fall at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to continue talking with Dr. Phil Ryken about this wonderful book in the middle of our Bibles, the book of the Song of Songs and how we can better understand what God is teaching us through His Word. I hope you can join us back for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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