{"id":305297,"date":"2019-08-26T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2019-08-26T10:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/a-friend-in-need\/"},"modified":"2019-08-26T06:00:04","modified_gmt":"2019-08-26T10:00:04","slug":"a-friend-in-need","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-friend-in-need\/","title":{"rendered":"A Friend in Need"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jonathan Holmes gives practical advice for finding a good Christian counselor. He also says that as Christians, we all can walk beside someone in their crisis, even if we don&#8217;t have all the answers.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-08-26.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:31:52","filesize":"29.18M","filesize_raw":"30600267","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[10443,2902],"tags":[6689,6690,4569],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9555],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305297","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-christian-marriage-counseling","category-resolving-conflict","tag-counsel-for-couples","tag-marriage-in-crisis","tag-speak-the-truth-in-love","cwp_profile-jonathan-holmes","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305297\/a-friend-in-need","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305297\/a-friend-in-need","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"T2tQ0T8PMq\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-friend-in-need\/\">A Friend in Need<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-friend-in-need\/embed\/#?secret=T2tQ0T8PMq\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;A Friend in Need&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"T2tQ0T8PMq\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Jonathan Holmes gives practical advice for finding a good Christian counselor. He also says that as Christians, we all can walk beside someone in their crisis, even if we don't have all the answers.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-08-26.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If you have a friend, a co-worker\u2014someone you know\u2014and you hear their marriage is in trouble, do you draw near to them?\u2014or do you find yourself backing away? Here's pastor and counselor, Jonathan Holmes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Sometimes, what I find is that, because we are so fearful of offering advice or counsel, that we can really pull away from people in crisis. If you don't have the skill\/don't have the confidence you need\/that you feel your couple friend needs, then, at least, be willing to say, \u201cListen, I'm willing to help you though. Let's go talk to our pastor\u2014let's track somebody down. And listen, I'll absolutely be committed to coming alongside and walking with you.\u201d Just be a friend\u2014to talk these things out together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, August 26<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. If you're somebody, who loves the Lord\/reads your Bible, you may be more competent to help friends in need than you realize. We'll talk more about that today with Jonathan Holmes. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. If you had to distinguish, for me, between discipleship and counseling, could you come up with a difference? I mean, what's discipling somebody and what's counseling somebody? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow; Bob starts with a deep one. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; I thought I'd throw you\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, honey; that's a really good question for you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I knew she'd throw it right back at me. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, you know, it's interesting\u2014when you asked that, my first thought was, \u201cI've always said that I'm not a good counselor,\u201d\u2014I've said that, even at church, like, \u201cYou don't want to come meet with me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cfor counsel\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and a lot of people want to meet, especially with Ann and me, because we talk about marriage; and we wrote a book on marriage. They think, \u201cOh, they're good counselors about marital topics.\u201d\u00a0 And yet, my secretary for 20 years, would say\u2014for 29 years; Debbie is\u2014she would say: \u201cDon't meet with Dave. You're going to walk out and go, 'Now, I need a real counselor;\u00a0 [Laughter] because all he said was: \u2018<em>Grow up!<\/em>\u2019 \u2018Quit doing that\u2019\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, when you think about it\u2014and that's an exaggeration\u2014when you think about counseling someone or discipling someone\u2014Bob, when you asked the question, I thought, \u201cI'm a good counselor!\u201d because it's discipling; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There are some parallels there. We've got a counselor\/discipler joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today,<\/em> and we're glad to have him. Jonathan Holmes is here. Jonathan, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Thank you for having me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jonathan has written a book called <em>Counsel for Couples: A Biblical and Practical Guide for Marriage Counseling<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> See, that's what I need! [Laughter] It's what I need!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It's what all of us need. In fact, I was with some friends recently; and I was describing your book to them. They were like, \u201cWhere do I get <em>that<\/em>?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Any of us, Jonathan, who are involved in the lives of friends\/couples\u2014we're all in situations, where\u2014mostly, as laymen\/as friends, we're called upon to\u2014somebody will say, \u201cDo you have any suggestions for me?\u2014any ideas?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIs there a difference between counseling and discipling? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That's a great question\u2014one we get quite a bit. When I think about counseling\/discipleship, I think counseling would be described as intensive discipleship. It's typically for a little bit of a shorter period of time and you're not spending a lot of time there, in terms of discipleship. Discipleship can be a little bit of a longer relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI like to describe counseling as a rest stop on the way to vacation. Nobody wants to spend their entire life at the rest stop [Laughter], at the vending machines and going to the bathroom. [Laughter] Sometimes, you need to take a little bit of a detour. For a lot of couples, that's what counseling can be\u2014it's: \u201cHey, we know where we're headed, to some degree, but we need a little bit of tune-up. We need some encouragement; we're at a little bit of a crisis point.\u201d Counseling helps pull you off the side of the road\u2014spend a little bit of time with you\u2014but we don't want you there forever. We <em>want<\/em> to get you back in the body-life in the church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jonathan is the pastor for counseling at Parkside Church, outside of Cleveland, Ohio, which, some of our listeners have heard of Parkside Church because their pastor is heard on a daily radio program called <em>Truth for Life<\/em>, and I'm heard on that as well. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave<\/strong>: I was going to say, \u201cBob, have you ever been heard on that show?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Alistair Begg is the pastor at Parkside, where you are the pastor for counseling. You've set up a counseling center at the church, that's not just for your church, but for people in the community. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; we have a ministry at Parkside Church called Fieldstone Counseling. It's a Christian counseling center that serves families, and churches, and local ministries across northeast Ohio. We found so many people are looking for Christian-based counseling\u2014there's not a lot of them out there and there's not a lot of them out there that people, I think, can trust\u2014that they feel that the counsel is biblical and that's oriented towards their faith.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you look to incorporate traditional counseling dynamics along with the Bible? This is called integrationism\u2014right?\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014where you take secular counseling technique and the Bible and put them together. Is that a <em>good<\/em> way for counselors to go? Or do you just open your Bible and say, \u201cHere's what the Bible says\u2026\u201d and \u201cWe go with that.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Integration, you know\u2014across the spectrum\u2014you're going to find a number of people, who are doing it well and then people, maybe, who are not doing it so well. I think good biblical counseling\u2014model and method\u2014takes God's Word seriously but then, also, really seeks to understand people well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd when you read the Gospels\/when we see the wonderful Counselor in action\u2014we realize that He's not just preaching sermons at people. Actually, His ministry is largely private and interpersonal. You see Him eating meals with people; you see Him living life with people; you see Him ministering to individuals\/small gatherings. His public ministry\u2014things like the Sermon on the Mount or His teaching\u2014actually accounts for a small part of what we see in the Gospels. What you see is Christ moving towards people, with intentional care and with hope. I think that's what biblical counseling best represents when it's done well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When you say it that way, it makes it sound like almost anyone\u2014mature follower of Christ\u2014could be a biblical counselor. Is that true?\u2014do you believe that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> I do believe that. I think that Paul, in the Epistles, tells us that he is confident that we are able to speak truth in love. In fact, that's actually a role that every person is called to do. You look at Ephesians 4, and he begins to lay out the gifts and what-not. But when he gets to Ephesians 4:15-16, he says, \u201cListen, all of us are to be speaking truth in love to build up the body together in Christ.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we think about counseling\u2014absolutely, there's definitely layers of competency and skill that different couples or different individuals have more skill or competence in. But I think that, at a baseline level, every believer\/every Christian should absolutely be equipped to be able to come into the life of another couple and be able to listen to them, ask good questions, and to really be present with them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And is that what prompted you, then, to write your book?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014to equip couples to be\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Absolutely; absolutely. One of the things in counseling ministry\u2014I'll get phone calls and inquiries from couples, pastors, elders, ministry leaders\u2014across the board. The number one question is: \u201cCan you help me with this case? I need advice on this. This guy came in\u2014he's looking at pornography,\u201d \u201c\u2026This woman's filed for divorce; what do I do?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd what I've found is\u2014not so much that people didn't like doing marriage counseling or that they were afraid of the hard work of it\u2014but they didn\u2019t know how to do it; they were just ill-equipped. I'd fire off email after email, listing off some different resources and trying to coach people through it. Finally, I said, \u201cMaybe I should just write a book and try to include a lot of this that I refer people to.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Of all the things you counsel, what are the top three or five things that you see people really need help with?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> I think the perennial topics that you are always going to get are anxiety, depression\u2014people just struggling with, \u201cHow do I deal with the ever-increasing pressures of life, and family, and work, and hardship?\u201d\u2014navigating through that\u2014not only personally; but then, also, with children. We see <em>huge<\/em> amounts of families just navigating and really drowning as it relates to their children dealing with anxiety and depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMarriage and family issues are definitely up there too. It's the bread and butter, I think, of much counseling: \u201cWhat do you do with husband and wife dynamics?\u201d \u201cWhat do you do when there's sexual sin?\u201d \u201cWhat do you do when there's infidelity?\u201d \u201cWhat do you do about in-law issues?\u201d\u2014\u201cfinancial issues?\u201d\u2014\u201crebellious children?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat grouping of marriage and family, anxiety, and depression\u2014forms a large amount of the work that we do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> With anxiety and depression being on the rise, why do you think that is?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> I think one of the things with anxiety and depression\u2014in terms of: \u201cWhat do you do with it?\u201d\u2014is I think that all of us can start with just being honest. I think that's one of the very first things that you can do with any couple\/with any individual to build relationship rapport\u2014is you move towards them and say: \u201cI get it. I actually <em>know<\/em> where you've been.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that's why, in marriage counseling, that word can scare people; but one of the strongest\/one of the best things I think other couples or other individuals can do, when they're discipling or whenever they're doing counseling, is that\u00a0 they can be honest about their own struggles. They can move towards people in a way that says, \u201cListen, you're <em>not<\/em> alone.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the built-in realities that we have in the church is that we are, already, together in one family. We already start off with a built-in relationship that I actually think sets the stage for speaking truth in love and for wise helping and wise encouraging. That's actually one of the biggest hopes that I hope people come away from the book with is: \u201cListen, you're actually well-placed and well-positioned to be involved in other couple's lives\u2014to move towards them and to ask good questions.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And yet, it's scary\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014even with friends or people you're in small group with to go there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, to be vulnerable\u2014it's easier to post the Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> or the Instagram<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> pictures that says, \u201cWe're okay,\u201d even if it's somewhat vulnerable. But to sit down with a counselor\u2014you've got to go there. Talk about that stigma\u2014the fear of: \u201cI need counseling.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan<\/strong>: The stigma of counseling, I think, can be huge; because we're a people, I think, who don't like to struggle publicly. We're people who don't like to air out our dirty laundry, especially when it comes to marriage. The world's mechanism, a lot of times, for dealing with that is: \u201cWell, you just kind of part ways amicably\u2014you go down the path of divorce,\u201d\u2014or maybe\u2014\u201cYou just kind of stay in it for the kids and, then, part ways after that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe idea that you need help\u2014that you're maybe not what your spouse <em>thought<\/em> that you were when you entered into the relationship\u2014that touches on a lot of areas of pride and embarrassment. I think all of those factors can keep people from pursuing marriage counseling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA lot of times, I'll even try to reframe marriage counseling just as marriage enrichment or marriage encouragement\u2014you know, marriage care: \u201cListen, this something that my wife and I\u2014we have marriage mentors in our life. We want people speaking into our life.\u201d That type of culture\u2014if we could just have the church pick that up\u2014I think all of our marriages in the church would be better for it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I think everybody here is about to say, \u201cAmen!\u201d and \u201cHallelujah!\u201d to that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was with a couple recently\u2014pastor friend and his wife\u2014they just casually, in the course of the conversation, said, \u201cWe had a situation, last week, where we were not on the same page; we didn't see things the same way.\u201d He said, \u201cSo we called a friend, who is a counselor, and said, \u2018Could we get some time with you to talk about this?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Bob, I told you never to tell anybody about that conversation. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>He spoke of it in such blas\u00e9 terms\u2014it was kind of like: \u201cYes; of course, this is what you do. We got sideways on something. We called a friend and said, \u2018We need some help on this.\u2019\u201d It was like: \u201cWe get counseling regularly.\u201d He de-stigmatized the whole thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think there are a lot of people who\u2014they don't go see a counselor until there's a crisis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That's a good point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What I hear you saying is that we'd all do a whole lot better if we would just get a tune-up every once in a while; and sat down with somebody, who would say, \u201cSo, let's talk about our marriage.\u201d And that person would say, \u201cDo you have any areas of conflict \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tor low-grade dissatisfaction?\u2014anything we can talk about?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You said it earlier, Bob, that your friend said, \u201cWe need to go get some help.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That's all you're doing! I mean, what person or what marriage doesn't need help? And if you can view others as people that can help you\u2014now, here's the thing\u2014wouldn't it be wonderful to go to somebody that's <em>skilled<\/em> at it though as well? They've had some schooling; they've had some experience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, it is one thing to go to my friend; and that's great, and it's really important. But man, every once in a while, you need somebody, with some insight, to go, \u201cLet's talk about this.\u201d Sometimes, your friend can't do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What do you do if you're friends are sharing something with you, and you're trying to help them, but it's like: \u201cThis is way out of my league. I don't know what to do about this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>In that case, the most honest answer is to say, \u201cI don't know, but I want to walk with you to find the right answer.\u201d One of the things I try to tell couples or other pastors in ministry is that we never want to offer simple answers to complex problems. Marriage is complicated, and all of us that are married can agree with that. We've been there; you realize that, rarely, are marital issues just simple, where: \u201cJust read this verse\u2026\u201d or \u201cPractice this strategy\u2026\u201d or \u201cDo this \u2018How to\u2026\u2019\u201d or \u201cRead this book.\u201d It's so much more complicated than that. And then, you add in all the pressures of life, and family, and whatnot. You realize that marriage is a complicated relationship, so we don't want to offer simple or simplistic answers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut sometimes, what I find is that, because we are so fearful of offering advice or counsel, that we can really pull away from people in crisis. If you don't have the skill\/if you don't have the competency needed\/that you feel your couple friend needs, then, at least, be willing to say: \u201cListen, I'm willing to help you though. Let's go talk to our pastor,\u201d \u201c\u2026Let's go talk to this Bible study leader,\u201d or \u201c\u2026the one you meet with\u2014your discipler,\u201d \u201cLet's track somebody down. Listen, I'll absolutely be committed to coming alongside, and walking with you, and just to be a friend to talk these things out together.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We live in a day, Jonathan, where a lot of people will reach out and think: \u201cI don't know what's wrong with me. I need a professional.\u201d And what they really need is\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u2014a friend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014a friend, who\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and discipleship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u2014and discipleship. When we think about counseling, within the context of a local church, I actually think, \u201cMan, this is God's best place for that work to happen.\u201d You have built-in relationships, built-in trust, built-in rapport. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen therapists talk about: \u201cWhat is the number one indicator for a positive therapeutic relationship?\u201d\u2014you know what it is? It's not the modality; it's not how well-trained the counselor is\u2014it's the relationship. Can the counselor and the counselee\u2014can they develop a relationship of trust? That's the number one indicator of therapeutic effectiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If somebody comes to your counseling center at your church, how often are you seeing somebody and thinking, \u201cYou don't need a counselor; you just need another couple, who could mentor you and walk through this with you\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> More times than you can count. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Really?! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; the couples that we see are incredibly isolated. You have wives that have suffered for a long time in marriages\/you have husbands, who are frustrated in marriages\u2014but who don't talk about it for all the reasons we just mentioned\u2014and who have not wanted to reach out and get help. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTo your point\u2014I think that you guys mentioned earlier\u2014we see them, at 25 years; if we had seen them, at 6 months, we could have addressed a lot of this. But they've been going to church on Sundays, and then Monday through Saturday, their faith doesn't really infect and infiltrate their marriage. You get people who are very disconnected and don't have those type of friendships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, for Dave and me, we've done life with seven other couples for about \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\ttwenty-five years. And in that time, we've seen a lot of marriages go up and down. We've seen affairs; we've seen rebellious kids\u2014but because of that love in those relationships, we've talked through that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe'll sit down with couple\u2014and I think this is so important in friendship\u2014just to say, \u201cHow's your marriage doing?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think we're <em>afraid<\/em> to go there, because we're afraid of offending one another. It's tricky, when we're doing this as friends; because there have been times, where Dave and I have watched couples, and Dave will say, \u201cDude, you're being a jerk to your wife!\u201d [Laughter] I'm like, \u201cOh, my goodness!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That's called \u201cthe truth, not in love.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> That's the Dave Wilson counseling term. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; there it is. [Laughter] And yet\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cStop it!\u201d \u201cStop it!\u201d\u2014right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I can learn from that! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I've got to start charging for this. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And yet, because there's a relationship\u2014and with these guys, they <em>love<\/em> each other so much\u2014he hears Dave, and he responds, and listens. Whereas, his wife has been saying it forever\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because it's her, and not Dave. Dave has this rapport and respect that he receives it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But if you went to the average couple at Parkside Church and said, \u201cHey, we'd like to have you meet up with a couple that came to us for counseling; and just, you know, talk with them and share\u2014they're going through a rough patch.\u201d That average couple would be: \u201cAre you out of your mind?! We can't do that! We don't know what to tell them!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Right: \u201cWe don't know what to tell them. We don't have a perfect marriage,\u201d\u2014that will be the phrase I hear. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, that's a big one; isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Huge phrase here: \u201cWell, we don't have a perfect marriage.\u201d I say: \u201cYou know what? Nobody has a perfect marriage. There's only one perfect marriage\u2014and that's God and how He comes to us, in Christ, and takes us as His bride\u2014that's the perfect marriage,\u201d and \u201cWe are, imperfectly, telling that story every day of our lives as we unite together in marriage. If the requirement was perfection in marriage, then yes, no one would be qualified to help.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere's one of the first things that you can do\u2014any marriage couple\/anybody who's listening today\u2014the two things I always tell people you can always move forward in\u2014is: \u201cLearn how to ask better questions and be a better listener.\u201d Proverbs says that the fool seeks no understanding but in only hearing his own opinions, but a wise person will move towards and seek understanding. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of us can do that\u2014we can <em>all<\/em> grow in asking better questions\u2014questions like, \u201cHey, how's your marriage doing?\u201d And then, you follow up from that, \u201cTell me a little bit more about that,\u201d\u2014right? Something as simple as asking a question and, then, knowing the right follow-up. That already gets you below the surface\u2014helps you move a little bit deeper. But we can't just be good question-askers, we also have to be good listeners. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I'm going to add one thing to your list of two. We can ask better questions; and we can do a better job of listening; and at the end of the day, we can say, \u201cYou know, I don't have the answers; but can I pray for you?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think we devalue\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I agree. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014it's kind of like, \u201cThat's just a way to get out of the conversation.\u201d No; to really say: \u201cI don't know what the answers are; but let's, together, go before the God of the universe and just say, \u2018Lord, we need help and we need grace and mercy.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 I think, sometimes, God, in the midst of my praying, is giving me words that are words of life for the person that is hearing the prayer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>He's giving you wisdom. James 1\u2014ask for wisdom\u2014you're, in a sense, asking for wisdom; and now, you've got to have the courage to speak that truth in love. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, that's where it gets sticky; because you're like, \u201cI don't know if I should\u201d; and yet, I think the couple is longing for\u2014they've asked you: \u201cWhat are you feeling? What is your instincts?\u201d Speak it and watch what God does.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> One of the things I'll do with couples, when I have them in my office or in our counseling room, is\u2014I'll tell them, at the beginning of the session: \u201cHey, I want to give you a little bit of lead time; so that you don't feel caught off guard. At the end of this session, I'm going to have you pray for your spouse.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>You would think that we're asking them to climb Mt. Everest\u2014[Laughter]\u2014barefoot. You get this deer-in-the-headlights look; but consistently, you see Paul praying good things about the people that he's writing to. I'll say, \u201cListen, I want you to really search hard.\u201d I mean, a couple could really be at their absolute worst; and I'll say: \u201c I want you to pray one thing, where you see God up to good in their life\u2014just one; okay?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe get through the first session and, I mean, it's stilted, \u201cGod, I thank You that Susan's here,\u201d and \u201cAmen,\u201d\u2014it's tough. It's a beautiful thing to see\u2014by session six or seven\u2014the prayers get a little bit longer, the observations get a little bit deeper, and the encouragement is more true to what God is doing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, it's a simple thing; but it points to that power of prayer. Something as simple of: \u201cHow can I pray for you?\u201d and \u201cWhat am I praying about?\u201d\u2014that's a powerful movement. I find it's hard for couples to be arguing with each other\/threatening divorce when they're praying together. It\u2019s just a fundamental, simple thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I'm going to use that\u2014that's really good. You're asking them to pray for their spouse in what they see and something good\u2014anything?\u2014one thing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; in the first session, I'll take <em>anything<\/em>; because again, these people are in here; they are at each other's throats. Because of what we know from \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPhilippians 1:6\u2014\u201cthat God, who began a good work in you, will be faithful to complete it until the end,\u201d\u2014I'll tell couples, \u201cYou might not be able to see it; but because of our confidence in who God is, He is always up to good in the life of those who believe.\u201d And I go: \u201cLet's have eyes to see that. We <em>can<\/em> find something good.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA lot of times, I'll just start with that thing that I mentioned earlier of: \u201cHey, they're here. You might think this is a last-ditch attempt, but thank God that you're here. You've raised the white flag and said: 'Hey, we can't keep doing this. We've got to get off the merry-go-round\/the crazy.' Let's be thankful for that.\u201d And we'll start from there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Wouldn't that be a cool thing?\u2014every night, you put your hand on your spouse and you thank God for one great thing about your spouse\u2014that would change marriages.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Absolutely. Even what you just mentioned, Ann, of just putting your hand on your spouse\u2014something physical and spatial like that, where you are breaking that awkwardness and that coldness, can communicate amazing things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, when I first saw your book, <em>Counsel for Couples: A Biblical and Practical Guide for Marriage Counseling<\/em>, I thought, \u201cWell, this is something that people, who do marriage counseling for a living, are going to need or want to read.\u201d Then I thought: \u201cPastors are going to need it; because they're called upon to do marriage counseling, pretty regularly,\u201d and \u201cThey may be outsourcing that, but they need to do some triage and some interaction with folks.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then I thought: \u201cHow many people do we run into, at <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>marriage getaways,\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cor couples we know, who have maybe been through a crisis themselves\u2014God's done a work and that's stirred in them a desire to want to help others\/to comfort others with the comfort that they've received, as 2 Corinthians 1 talks about. They'd love a copy of a book like this.\u201d And then I thought, \u201cEverybody just needs to have it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Not only do you talk about how to approach counseling\u2014but the second half of this book\u2014Jonathan, you just go through the most common issues that you face in marriage counseling, and you give us a treatment plan\/you give us a protocol: \u201cHere's how these issues manifest,\u201d and \u201cHere's what you do,\u201d and \u201cHere's what to remember.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is an invaluable resource\u2014it's something we've got in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. You can go, online, at\u00a0 FamilyLifeToday.com to get a copy of Jonathan Holmes' book, <em>Counsel for Couples: A Biblical and Practical Guide for Marriage Counselin<\/em>g. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order; or call us if you'd like a copy of the book. Our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014that's 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201dF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I know this is a pretty important week for a lot of families with back to school\u2014lots of things going on as summer comes to an end. This is a pretty important week for us at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> as well. We have the President of <em>FamilyLife<\/em>, David Robbins, here with us. David, we're paying pretty careful attention to what's happening with our listeners this week.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David: <\/strong>Yes; we are. We have such an opportunity before us with this matching gift. I know you've been hearing Bob tell some stories; and it has been <em>amazing<\/em> that, you know, we have this resource that is reaching hundreds of thousands of people with <em>Art of Parenting<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>,and <em>Like Arrows<\/em>,and other parts of the parenting initiative that's with it. It's having a global impact\u2014it's reaching hundreds of thousands of people here. I was in a small group\u2014it really brought a level of intentionality to Meg and me\u2014we did it about six months ago, and we're still applying some of those things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe stories we're getting from Latin America\u2014and as we prep to launch in East Asia, the opportunity is before us\u2014but we can only go as fast as we can with the resources we have. That's why this matching opportunity is so important for this year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That's why we're asking our listeners to help us take full advantage of the matching-gift opportunity that's been made available to us this month. This is the last week to do that, so would you consider making a <em>generous<\/em> donation this week to help move forward the ministry of <em>FamilyLife<\/em> and help us take advantage of this matching-gift opportunity? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation, we want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you Dennis and Barbara Rainey's book, <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em>. It's our thank-you gift for your support. You can donate easily, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to donate\u2014our number is: 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we're going to talk about some of the specific issues that couples face in marriage\u2014like: \u201cHow do you recover from an affair?\u201d and \u201cWhat can we do?\u2014what can we say to help friends, who are going through something like that?\u201d Jonathan Holmes will be with us, again, tomorrow. I hope you can be with us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/305297","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305297"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305297"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305297"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305297"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=305297"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=305297"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=305297"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}