{"id":305259,"date":"2019-08-10T06:00:05","date_gmt":"2019-08-10T10:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-journey-of-forgiveness-2\/"},"modified":"2019-08-10T06:00:05","modified_gmt":"2019-08-10T10:00:05","slug":"the-journey-of-forgiveness-2","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/the-journey-of-forgiveness-2\/","title":{"rendered":"The Journey of Forgiveness"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>What is forgiveness? Join us on the journey of biblical forgiveness with Leslie Leyland Fields, Voddie Baucham, and Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tVoddie Baucham explains in order to be successful in marriage, a couple must be able to forgive each other often. But the only way to do that is to have a solid grasp of God&#8217;s great forgiveness of us through Christ. (26 min. podcast) https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/voddie-baucham-on-forgiveness\/<br \/>\n \tFamilyLife articles on forgiveness. https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/articles\/topics\/marriage\/staying-married\/forgiveness\/<br \/>\n \tLeslie Leyland Fields shares about the time she packed up her kids and traveled to Florida to visit her estranged father. Leslie talks about their visit, and her childhood growing up with a mentally ill father.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-freedom-from-hurt-and-hate\/<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What is forgiveness? Join us on the journey of biblical forgiveness with Leslie Leyland Fields, Voddie Baucham, and Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"http:\/\/d2c17sq0nj1f7e.cloudfront.net\/flw2019-08-10.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:00","filesize":"25.64M","filesize_raw":"26883037","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2908,2825,2827],"tags":[2699],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[3067,3196,8805],"series":[10388],"class_list":["post-305259","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","hentry","category-forgiveness","category-honoring-your-parents","category-repentance","tag-forgiveness","cwp_profile-leslie-leyland-fields","cwp_profile-nancy-demoss-wolgemuth","cwp_profile-voddie-baucham","series-familylife-this-week"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":false,"episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/10\/FLTW-Podcast-Cover-2-1400x1400-1-300x300-1.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305259\/the-journey-of-forgiveness-2","player_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305259\/the-journey-of-forgiveness-2","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-this-week","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Q9GuI9SK1A\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/the-journey-of-forgiveness-2\/\">The Journey of Forgiveness<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/the-journey-of-forgiveness-2\/embed\/#?secret=Q9GuI9SK1A\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Journey of Forgiveness&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Q9GuI9SK1A\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/flw\/flw2019-08-10.pdf"],"audio_file":["http:\/\/d2c17sq0nj1f7e.cloudfront.net\/flw2019-08-10.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> For a Christian, forgiveness isn\u2019t optional; but that doesn\u2019t mean that it\u2019s easy. Here\u2019s Leslie Leyland Fields. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Forgiven people must be forgiving people. I hope that we can start right there in our families. I have to say, \u201cMy life has been changed. Forgiving my father has changed my life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to take a journey today with Leslie Leyland Fields and learn about the costly but beautiful ointment of forgiveness on this edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I\u2019m Michelle Hill. You know\u2014if you have kids, or grandkids, or children in your life\u2014you\u2019re going to recognize this next conversation. It goes something like this. They say, \u201cDo I have to?!\u201d You say, \u201cYes; it\u2019s good for you.\u201d They say, \u201cBut I don\u2019t <em>want<\/em> to!\u201d You say, \u201cJust do it.\u201d Does that sound familiar? Well, have you ever had those kinds of conversations with God? You, of course, would be asking the question that the kids ask of: \u201cDo I have to?!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSome things are good for us even though we dread the process. Sometimes, we have to do something because God said so. You know God loves the number seven. Remember, back in Matthew, Peter asked how many times he was supposed to forgive his brother or sister. He asks, \u201c\u2026like seven?\u201d\u2014which, for Peter, he thought he was being <em>generous<\/em> because that was more than <em>twice<\/em> of what the rabbis were asking you to do; but Jesus said, \u201cNo; 70 times 7\u201d\u2014which is basically saying, \u201cThat\u2019s like a million times!\u201d I don\u2019t know about you; but for me, when someone hurts me, the first thing I want to do is <em>not<\/em> show them the fanatical love of forgiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to introduce you to a friend of mine. I say she\u2019s a friend because she and her family live in Alaska; they are commercial fishermen. I <em>used<\/em> to live in Alaska; I knew commercial fisherman. Since Alaska is\u2014while it\u2019s large, there are so few people; we have to know each other; right?! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe\u2019s a very cool person; but Leslie Leyland Fields\u2014she knows this forgiveness stuff. She has quite the forgiveness journey, which kind of started with a trip, where she packed up all of her children\u2014all of her six children in Alaska\u2014and flew all the way to Florida. In her mind, she was doing the right thing\u2014introducing her children to the grandfather they never knew. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Well, I packed up all six kids on spring break, and we flew down to Florida for them to meet their grandfather for the first time. I knew it was the first time, and it was probably also the <em>last<\/em> time. I hadn\u2019t talked about my father very much; they knew <em>nothing<\/em> about him. They\u2014you know, they weren\u2019t particularly interested; but I knew that, for future reference, they just needed to meet him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Your kids didn\u2019t grow up with phone calls to Grandpa or with presents at Christmas from Grandpa\u2014with the normal grandparent involvement? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Not at all; not at all; no; no. They\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Why not? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> My father was not even a father to his own six children, so it would have been absurd for me to think that he would be a grandfather to my six children. He was very detached and seemed to be unable to connect with people, even his own children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, to protect your kids as they flew down to see their grandpa, you didn\u2019t actually tell them that he was their grandpa; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> No; I never talked about him as their grandfather because I didn\u2019t feel that connection anyway. I always talked about him as <em>my<\/em> father. I would say, \u201cWe\u2019re going to meet my father\u201d; I didn\u2019t want to say, \u201cgrandfather.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey had another grandfather, who lived right there in Kodiak\u2014my husband\u2019s father. They kind of knew something about a grandfather because he was a <em>kind<\/em> man. He <em>loved<\/em> to pull the children up on his lap and do nursery rhymes with them and all the wonderful things that grandpas should do with their children\u2014he did that. That was their image of a grandfather, and I could never\u2014I could never, even myself, name my father, \u201cgrandfather.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you thinking\u2014when you took your kids down to meet their grandfather, who they\u2019d never met, and you couldn\u2019t bring yourself to call the man their grandfather\u2014were you thinking, \u201cThis is going to be the <em>beginning<\/em> of the process I need to go through in forgiving my father\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> You know, I hoped that it was the beginning; but at the end of that visit\u2014I was there; we were there together for about four hours\u2014and my father was resistant. He did not talk to me; he didn\u2019t look at me. At the end of those four hours, I determined: \u201cThat\u2019s it! I\u2019m done. I am <em>really<\/em> done. I am <em>never<\/em> coming back.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019ve paid $10,000\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Exactly! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cto get everybody here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cI took two days, four hours\u2014you\u2019re not looking at me.\u201d You just wiped the dust and moved on. <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> I did. I wiped the dust off my feet, and I went back home. I thought: \u201cThe door is closed. I\u2019m done.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s Leslie Leyland Fields, and she tried; right? I think we can safely say that most people would say: \u201cThis forgiveness thing\u2014I\u2019ve tried. I\u2019m washing my hands of it. They wouldn\u2019t listen to me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut unforgiveness is like cancer, and it\u2019s hard to spot until it\u2019s <em>too<\/em> late. Don\u2019t just take <em>my<\/em> word for it. Let\u2019s hear from someone we trust to dig into God\u2019s Word and hold <em>nothing<\/em> back. I\u2019m talking about the man named Voddie Baucham. Voddie says it\u2019s easy to get stuck <em>not<\/em> forgiving when we don\u2019t remind ourselves of just how much <em>we\u2019ve<\/em> been forgiven. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Recorded Message] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Voddie:<\/strong> My standard is higher than God\u2019s standard; so, though He can forgive you, I <em>can\u2019t<\/em>\u2014that\u2019s arrogant! God could send His Son to <em>die<\/em> for that sin that you committed against Him; but that\u2019s not good enough for <em>me<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can be right with the Creator of the universe, who spoke the world into existence, who ought to have consumed you with fire last night because of what you thought, said, and did yesterday. The God of the universe, according to <em>His<\/em> standard, can receive you, nonetheless\u2014and not only receive you\u2014but crush and kill His only begotten Son for that sin that <em>you<\/em> committed. God can do that; my standard is higher\u2014that\u2019s the height of arrogance; it\u2019s also hypocrisy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhy don\u2019t we forgive? Let me give you these, and we\u2019ll be done. One reason we don\u2019t forgive is because we do not comprehend the gospel. When I am constantly and consistently reminding myself of the price that was paid for my sin\u2014when I am constantly and consistently rejoicing in and praising God for the forgiveness that is mine in Christ\u2014I <em>cannot<\/em> harbor unforgiveness toward you; I can\u2019t do it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I am <em>constantly<\/em> burdened down under the weight of the majesty of the forgiveness that I have received\u2014when I am constantly reminded that the precious, spotless, sinless Lamb of God was crushed and killed, crucified at the will and beckoning of His own Father, and that perfect life was <em>exchanged<\/em> for mine\u2014if you are harboring unforgiveness, I want to point you back to the gospel. If you are harboring unforgiveness, I want to point you back to Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecondly, I harbor unforgiveness because I\u2019m wrong about the definition of forgiveness. For example, some people hold on to unforgiveness because you believe that forgiveness means that you have to forget. That\u2019s a common cultural saying, but it\u2019s not Bible. It says that God casts our sins into the sea of forgetfulness. See; you ain\u2019t Him. [Laughter] Literally, what that means is that God casts <em>off<\/em> the punishment <em>due<\/em> to your sins when you understand what forgiveness means. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, that\u2019s not the <em>beauty<\/em> of forgiveness. The <em>beauty<\/em> of forgiveness is not that you can\u2019t remember what happened. The beauty of forgiveness is that, in spite of the fact that you remember and may never forget, you give up your right to punish. That\u2019s the beauty of forgiveness. [Applause] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>The other myth that we believe is that you can only extend forgiveness to someone when they <em>ask<\/em> for it. Here\u2019s the danger in that one. If you follow that through to its logical conclusion, then you don\u2019t really believe that Jesus Christ has forgiven you for all sins\u2014past, present, and then future. You believe, actually, that you will only stand in heaven if you have managed to recognize, record, and repent of every sin that you\u2019ve ever committed; because if you <em>don\u2019t<\/em> recognize, record, and repent of every sin that you committed, that means you\u2019re going to stand before God with a record of sins for which you <em>have not<\/em> repented. If forgiveness is <em>only<\/em> extended when it\u2019s asked for specifically, you can\u2019t be saved. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you believe that you can only forgive when people specifically ask you for forgiveness, I feel sorry for you because that makes you the judge of the universe, who must punish sin unless and until forgiveness is requested. Good luck with that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s Voddie Baucham. He <em>always<\/em> packs a punch, for sure. First off, did you hear Voddie remind us that we\u2019re not God? He also said the <em>beauty<\/em> of forgiveness is not that you can\u2019t remember what happened. The beauty of forgiveness is that, in spite of the fact that you remember and may <em>never<\/em> forget, you give up your right to punish\u2014<em>that\u2019s<\/em> the beauty for forgiveness. If you want to hear more from Voddie, go to our website, FamilyLifeThisWeek.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHey, we need to take a break; but when we come back, Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth is going to talk about forgiveness. Also, we\u2019re going to continue following the forgiveness journey of Leslie Leyland Fields. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Radio Station Spot Break]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I\u2019m Michelle Hill. We\u2019re walking that costly but beautiful journey of forgiveness this week. You know, for any how-to\u2019s these days, you go to Google; right? I went to Google, and I typed in \u201cHow to forgive.\u201d Now, I know I probably should have gone to the Bible; but you know, I kind of just wanted to see what Google has to say. It\u2019s quick and easy; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, let\u2019s see: \u201cForgiveness isn\u2019t about you,\u201d \u201cFocus on gratitude,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s got to be in the Bible; right?\u2014\u201cLook for the lesson,\u201d \u201cAlso, don\u2019t live in the past; stay present,\u201d \u201cSend love,\u201d \u201cLearn to let go and be like the water\u201d\u2014huh? Kind of nonsense\u2014well, maybe, not all nonsense\u2014some good stuff mixed in there; but it\u2019s Google; right? We really shouldn\u2019t rely on man\u2019s thoughts. We need to align our thoughts and ways with God\u2019s because, after all, He is the <em>master<\/em> forgiver. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne lady, who has aligned her thoughts and ways with God, is Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. She has spent more than 50 years of her life walking with God. She\u2019s written numerous books, including <em>Choosing Forgiveness: Your Journey to Freedom<\/em>. I wanted you to hear her definition of forgiveness, because it\u2019s pretty powerful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Broadcast] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> You know, in essence, I think forgiveness is a promise. It\u2019s a promise that: \u201cI will <em>never<\/em> hold this offense against you again. I\u2019m not going to hold it against you to God, or to you, or to anyone else. I\u2019m clearing your record.\u201d Now, that raises, immediately, the question of: \u201cWell, if I release them\/if I let them go\u2014if I say, \u2018I\u2019m not going to hold this against them again,\u2019\u2014are they off the hook? Does that mean what they did doesn\u2019t matter?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we\u2019re really doing is saying: \u201cI\u2019m transferring this person from my courtroom to God\u2019s. I\u2019m not the judge; I\u2019m not the jury. I\u2019m a sinner, who is also in need of God\u2019s grace and forgiveness <em>every<\/em> day of my life.\u201d This person may have sinned in ways that I haven\u2019t or ways we would consider greater; but I\u2019m saying, \u201cI\u2019m transferring that person to God\u2019s custody.\u201d God is the wise judge, who will know what to do with that person and He knows how to bring <em>that<\/em> person to a place of repentance and restoration. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It really is an issue of faith\/of trusting that God is sovereign. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> And it\u2019s relinquishing control. I think, for me as a woman, that\u2019s what it is. A lot of times, I want to control how this person feels\u2014the consequences that they experience as a result of the choices they\u2019ve made. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt takes faith to say: \u201cYou know what? I\u2019m not God. I\u2019m not in charge; I\u2019m not in control. I\u2019m willing to let God have that role.\u201d When I take that step of releasing control\/releasing the offender from my courtroom, I\u2019m really opening my own life up for God\u2019s mercy and grace to flow through me in a greater way. I\u2019m in <em>desperate<\/em> need of that mercy and grace myself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> [Chuckling] You know, as you were talking, I was thinking, \u201cI have to correct you.\u201d You said, \u201cAs a woman, I\u2019m struggling with the issue of control.\u201d Well, I want you to know the other half of the species has a pretty big-time problem with control as well. <em>Men<\/em> struggle with being their own God\u2014pride\u2014not wanting to let go; but nurse those hurts as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re afraid\u2014don\u2019t you think?\u2014that if we just forgive, we\u2019re just saying, \u201cDo it again.\u201d I mean, if you let somebody off the hook, we\u2019re just inviting them\u2014saying, \u201cThere are no consequences for your actions; so, therefore, you are free to hurt me again.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> That\u2019s where, I think, we have to look at the power of the cross; because that\u2019s where we see God forgiving those who have sinned against Him by offering up His Son as a sacrifice to take the penalty for our sins. We see Jesus crying out, saying, \u201cFather, forgive them.\u201d Well, was that just license for us to sin more? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat happens is\u2014as we see the sacrifice that Christ made for our sins\/as we look at the cross, that provokes brokenness in us. That causes us to come to God, humbly, and say: \u201cI was wrong. I should have been there on that cross, but You died for me.\u201d It\u2019s the gospel; it\u2019s good news. We embrace Christ, and the gospel, and the forgiveness of God <em>because<\/em> of seeing His brokenness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, in many of our relationships\u2014marriages, parent-child relationships, siblings, churches\u2014that we\u2019re <em>not<\/em> seeing that brokenness, and that humility, and people coming to deal with their issues; because they\u2019ve not seen, in us, that example of the willingness to suffer\/the willingness to be wronged on behalf of another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Such good words from Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. Did you catch what she said?\u2014\u201cForgiveness is a promise. It\u2019s a promise that I\u2019ll never hold this offense against you again,\u201d\u2014clearing the record. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou remember how we started the show?\u2014Leslie Leyland Fields. She had packed up all of her kids; she was flying them from Alaska to Florida; and she went <em>all<\/em> that way to give her dad a chance to make things right with <em>her<\/em>. She sort of just washed her hands of him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, I want you to hear the rest of Leslie\u2019s story. It starts out with a word of advice to anyone struggling to forgive a particular parent. Here is Leslie. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> If you don\u2019t know much about your mother, or father, or whoever this person is\u2014about their childhood\/about the early years of their marriage\u2014go find out. Go find out however you can. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor me, it meant another trip down to Florida. My father had one living relative, a brother. I flew down, and I spent several <em>wonderful<\/em> hours with them, just learning about his childhood\/learning about what his experience was like. That gave me <em>deep<\/em> compassion for my father, because I recognized a whole pattern in his life\u2014a pattern of failure and a pattern of rejection. He was rejected by many people in his life. That broke my heart; because I began to see him, for the first time, as a human being rather than as just my father. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, I sometimes wonder if people, who struggle with being able to forgive a father, or a mother, or somebody who is offended them in a terrible way, if they really do understand what God\u2019s mercy toward them\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014has been. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s our problem every time we don\u2019t forgive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> I agree. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I think we are all just a step away from piously going, \u201cI\u2019m going to get back at you\u201d; because we\u2019ve forgotten God\u2019s mercy\/God\u2019s grace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> We\u2019ve forgotten who we were\u2014just really rotten, terrible sinners before God! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve minimized it; we\u2019ve dumbed it down. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Oh, yes; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s what we often do\u2014we go, \u201cWell, yes; I know God was gracious toward me, but I wasn\u2019t that bad.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Yes; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s our\u2014that\u2019s our thinking. That\u2019s why the Bible comes back and says: \u201cOh, no; oh, no. You were\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cYou did owe millions.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cYou did owe millions.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> \u201cYou did owe more than you could <em>ever<\/em> pay in your lifetime.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. Once you can get it, into your heart and head, that\u2019s true\u2014and God has released me from the obligation there\u2014then it\u2019s really hard to turn to the next person and say, \u201cBut you still owe me a pound of flesh in all of this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Leslie, I don\u2019t want to move <em>past<\/em> a message that is one that I know is on your heart; and that is, God has called us, as followers of Christ, to move into the world with this forgiveness\u2014to not just hoard it in our families but to express this forgiveness in the marketplace and that it would be a balm of healing and peace to all that we come in contact with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Absolutely; we are called\u2014forgiven people must be forgiving people. I hope that we can <em>start<\/em> right there in our families. I have to say my life has been changed. Forgiving my father has changed my life, because it is turning me into a person who <em>wants<\/em> to forgive\/who is ready and quick to forgive. I\u2019m not perfect. I\u2019m\u2014watch; someone is going to hear this broadcast, and they are going to test me. They are going to\u2014[Laughter]\u2014please don\u2019t do that! [Laughter]\u2014but my\u2014God showed me His heart of mercy toward my father. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy father was given people\u2014Christians, all along his path\u2014right up until the moment he died. That\u2019s how much God loved my father. He gave him unending moments of mercy to lead him to Himself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Leslie, there\u2019s one last question I want to ask you that is going to test that forgiveness you gave your dad. If I had the ability, right now, to seat your dad across the table from you\u2014and you could give him a tribute\/a verbal tribute, and Bob and I would leave the studio\u2014could you give him a tribute? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> I would honestly have a hard time saying: \u201cThank you for this,\u201d and \u201cThank you for that.\u201d I don\u2019t have a lot of things that I can thank him for, but I can thank him for <em>life<\/em>. I can thank him for showing me God\u2019s heart. I can thank him for receiving me when I flew down and visited with him. When I came down to be with him after his stroke, he listened to me. He heard me, I think, for the first time in my life. He heard me, and he <em>saw<\/em> me. I would thank him for those things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s tough. Can you imagine giving a tribute to a father who spent most of his life, kind of, missing in action? While there is not a lot that she can thank him for, Leslie Leyland Fields <em>chose<\/em> to thank him for her life and also for some of the moments that they were <em>finally<\/em> able to have once she forgave him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, those scales of justice in the courtroom that Nancy was talking about: \u201cAre they guilty, or are they innocent?\u201d\u2014those scales of justice belong in <em>God\u2019s<\/em> courtroom, not ours. Yes; I understand that this journey of forgiveness\u2014it\u2019s not easy. It\u2019s <em>not<\/em>, but it\u2019s <em>worth<\/em> it. After all, it\u2019s what our Savior did for us. As He hung on the cross, He said, \u201cFather, forgive them for they don\u2019t know what they are doing.\u201d That\u2019s something to think about if you\u2019re on your own forgiveness journey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is an issue that we\u2019ve dealt a lot with, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. We have a lot of helpful information for you at our website, along with Leslie Leyland Fields\u2019 entire journey of forgiving her father. That\u2019s located on our website, FamilyLifeThisWeek.com\u2014that\u2019s FamilyLifeThisWeek.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHey, next week, Ron Deal is going to talk about <em>loss<\/em> with us. He\u2019s going to talk about how to deal with it and how to be in the community that comes around the person who is suffering. I guarantee that it will be helpful and an enlightening conversation. You won\u2019t want to miss it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHey, thanks for listening! I want to thank the President of FamilyLife, David Robbins, along with our station partners around the country. A big \u201cThank you!\u201d to our engineer today, Meredith Empie. Thanks to our producers, Marques Holt and Bruce Goff. Justin Adams is our mastering engineer and second in command today; and Megan Martin, as always, is our production coordinator and helper with <em>all<\/em> the difficult pronunciations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur program is a production of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and our mission is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time. I'm Michelle Hill, inviting you to join us again next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:28:00"],"show_notes":[""],"filesize":["25.64M"],"filesize_raw":["26883037"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305259.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305259.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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is forgiveness? Join us on the journey of biblical forgiveness with Leslie Leyland Fields, Voddie Baucham, and Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/flw\/flw2019-08-10.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> For a Christian, forgiveness isn\u2019t optional; but that doesn\u2019t mean that it\u2019s easy. Here\u2019s Leslie Leyland Fields. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Forgiven people must be forgiving people. I hope that we can start right there in our families. I have to say, \u201cMy life has been changed. Forgiving my father has changed my life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to take a journey today with Leslie Leyland Fields and learn about the costly but beautiful ointment of forgiveness on this edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I\u2019m Michelle Hill. You know\u2014if you have kids, or grandkids, or children in your life\u2014you\u2019re going to recognize this next conversation. It goes something like this. They say, \u201cDo I have to?!\u201d You say, \u201cYes; it\u2019s good for you.\u201d They say, \u201cBut I don\u2019t <em>want<\/em> to!\u201d You say, \u201cJust do it.\u201d Does that sound familiar? Well, have you ever had those kinds of conversations with God? You, of course, would be asking the question that the kids ask of: \u201cDo I have to?!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSome things are good for us even though we dread the process. Sometimes, we have to do something because God said so. You know God loves the number seven. Remember, back in Matthew, Peter asked how many times he was supposed to forgive his brother or sister. He asks, \u201c\u2026like seven?\u201d\u2014which, for Peter, he thought he was being <em>generous<\/em> because that was more than <em>twice<\/em> of what the rabbis were asking you to do; but Jesus said, \u201cNo; 70 times 7\u201d\u2014which is basically saying, \u201cThat\u2019s like a million times!\u201d I don\u2019t know about you; but for me, when someone hurts me, the first thing I want to do is <em>not<\/em> show them the fanatical love of forgiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to introduce you to a friend of mine. I say she\u2019s a friend because she and her family live in Alaska; they are commercial fishermen. I <em>used<\/em> to live in Alaska; I knew commercial fisherman. Since Alaska is\u2014while it\u2019s large, there are so few people; we have to know each other; right?! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe\u2019s a very cool person; but Leslie Leyland Fields\u2014she knows this forgiveness stuff. She has quite the forgiveness journey, which kind of started with a trip, where she packed up all of her children\u2014all of her six children in Alaska\u2014and flew all the way to Florida. In her mind, she was doing the right thing\u2014introducing her children to the grandfather they never knew. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Well, I packed up all six kids on spring break, and we flew down to Florida for them to meet their grandfather for the first time. I knew it was the first time, and it was probably also the <em>last<\/em> time. I hadn\u2019t talked about my father very much; they knew <em>nothing<\/em> about him. They\u2014you know, they weren\u2019t particularly interested; but I knew that, for future reference, they just needed to meet him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Your kids didn\u2019t grow up with phone calls to Grandpa or with presents at Christmas from Grandpa\u2014with the normal grandparent involvement? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Not at all; not at all; no; no. They\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Why not? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> My father was not even a father to his own six children, so it would have been absurd for me to think that he would be a grandfather to my six children. He was very detached and seemed to be unable to connect with people, even his own children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, to protect your kids as they flew down to see their grandpa, you didn\u2019t actually tell them that he was their grandpa; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> No; I never talked about him as their grandfather because I didn\u2019t feel that connection anyway. I always talked about him as <em>my<\/em> father. I would say, \u201cWe\u2019re going to meet my father\u201d; I didn\u2019t want to say, \u201cgrandfather.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey had another grandfather, who lived right there in Kodiak\u2014my husband\u2019s father. They kind of knew something about a grandfather because he was a <em>kind<\/em> man. He <em>loved<\/em> to pull the children up on his lap and do nursery rhymes with them and all the wonderful things that grandpas should do with their children\u2014he did that. That was their image of a grandfather, and I could never\u2014I could never, even myself, name my father, \u201cgrandfather.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you thinking\u2014when you took your kids down to meet their grandfather, who they\u2019d never met, and you couldn\u2019t bring yourself to call the man their grandfather\u2014were you thinking, \u201cThis is going to be the <em>beginning<\/em> of the process I need to go through in forgiving my father\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> You know, I hoped that it was the beginning; but at the end of that visit\u2014I was there; we were there together for about four hours\u2014and my father was resistant. He did not talk to me; he didn\u2019t look at me. At the end of those four hours, I determined: \u201cThat\u2019s it! I\u2019m done. I am <em>really<\/em> done. I am <em>never<\/em> coming back.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019ve paid $10,000\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Exactly! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cto get everybody here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cI took two days, four hours\u2014you\u2019re not looking at me.\u201d You just wiped the dust and moved on. <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> I did. I wiped the dust off my feet, and I went back home. I thought: \u201cThe door is closed. I\u2019m done.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s Leslie Leyland Fields, and she tried; right? I think we can safely say that most people would say: \u201cThis forgiveness thing\u2014I\u2019ve tried. I\u2019m washing my hands of it. They wouldn\u2019t listen to me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut unforgiveness is like cancer, and it\u2019s hard to spot until it\u2019s <em>too<\/em> late. Don\u2019t just take <em>my<\/em> word for it. Let\u2019s hear from someone we trust to dig into God\u2019s Word and hold <em>nothing<\/em> back. I\u2019m talking about the man named Voddie Baucham. Voddie says it\u2019s easy to get stuck <em>not<\/em> forgiving when we don\u2019t remind ourselves of just how much <em>we\u2019ve<\/em> been forgiven. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Recorded Message] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Voddie:<\/strong> My standard is higher than God\u2019s standard; so, though He can forgive you, I <em>can\u2019t<\/em>\u2014that\u2019s arrogant! God could send His Son to <em>die<\/em> for that sin that you committed against Him; but that\u2019s not good enough for <em>me<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can be right with the Creator of the universe, who spoke the world into existence, who ought to have consumed you with fire last night because of what you thought, said, and did yesterday. The God of the universe, according to <em>His<\/em> standard, can receive you, nonetheless\u2014and not only receive you\u2014but crush and kill His only begotten Son for that sin that <em>you<\/em> committed. God can do that; my standard is higher\u2014that\u2019s the height of arrogance; it\u2019s also hypocrisy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhy don\u2019t we forgive? Let me give you these, and we\u2019ll be done. One reason we don\u2019t forgive is because we do not comprehend the gospel. When I am constantly and consistently reminding myself of the price that was paid for my sin\u2014when I am constantly and consistently rejoicing in and praising God for the forgiveness that is mine in Christ\u2014I <em>cannot<\/em> harbor unforgiveness toward you; I can\u2019t do it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I am <em>constantly<\/em> burdened down under the weight of the majesty of the forgiveness that I have received\u2014when I am constantly reminded that the precious, spotless, sinless Lamb of God was crushed and killed, crucified at the will and beckoning of His own Father, and that perfect life was <em>exchanged<\/em> for mine\u2014if you are harboring unforgiveness, I want to point you back to the gospel. If you are harboring unforgiveness, I want to point you back to Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecondly, I harbor unforgiveness because I\u2019m wrong about the definition of forgiveness. For example, some people hold on to unforgiveness because you believe that forgiveness means that you have to forget. That\u2019s a common cultural saying, but it\u2019s not Bible. It says that God casts our sins into the sea of forgetfulness. See; you ain\u2019t Him. [Laughter] Literally, what that means is that God casts <em>off<\/em> the punishment <em>due<\/em> to your sins when you understand what forgiveness means. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, that\u2019s not the <em>beauty<\/em> of forgiveness. The <em>beauty<\/em> of forgiveness is not that you can\u2019t remember what happened. The beauty of forgiveness is that, in spite of the fact that you remember and may never forget, you give up your right to punish. That\u2019s the beauty of forgiveness. [Applause] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>The other myth that we believe is that you can only extend forgiveness to someone when they <em>ask<\/em> for it. Here\u2019s the danger in that one. If you follow that through to its logical conclusion, then you don\u2019t really believe that Jesus Christ has forgiven you for all sins\u2014past, present, and then future. You believe, actually, that you will only stand in heaven if you have managed to recognize, record, and repent of every sin that you\u2019ve ever committed; because if you <em>don\u2019t<\/em> recognize, record, and repent of every sin that you committed, that means you\u2019re going to stand before God with a record of sins for which you <em>have not<\/em> repented. If forgiveness is <em>only<\/em> extended when it\u2019s asked for specifically, you can\u2019t be saved. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you believe that you can only forgive when people specifically ask you for forgiveness, I feel sorry for you because that makes you the judge of the universe, who must punish sin unless and until forgiveness is requested. Good luck with that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s Voddie Baucham. He <em>always<\/em> packs a punch, for sure. First off, did you hear Voddie remind us that we\u2019re not God? He also said the <em>beauty<\/em> of forgiveness is not that you can\u2019t remember what happened. The beauty of forgiveness is that, in spite of the fact that you remember and may <em>never<\/em> forget, you give up your right to punish\u2014<em>that\u2019s<\/em> the beauty for forgiveness. If you want to hear more from Voddie, go to our website, FamilyLifeThisWeek.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHey, we need to take a break; but when we come back, Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth is going to talk about forgiveness. Also, we\u2019re going to continue following the forgiveness journey of Leslie Leyland Fields. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Radio Station Spot Break]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I\u2019m Michelle Hill. We\u2019re walking that costly but beautiful journey of forgiveness this week. You know, for any how-to\u2019s these days, you go to Google; right? I went to Google, and I typed in \u201cHow to forgive.\u201d Now, I know I probably should have gone to the Bible; but you know, I kind of just wanted to see what Google has to say. It\u2019s quick and easy; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, let\u2019s see: \u201cForgiveness isn\u2019t about you,\u201d \u201cFocus on gratitude,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s got to be in the Bible; right?\u2014\u201cLook for the lesson,\u201d \u201cAlso, don\u2019t live in the past; stay present,\u201d \u201cSend love,\u201d \u201cLearn to let go and be like the water\u201d\u2014huh? Kind of nonsense\u2014well, maybe, not all nonsense\u2014some good stuff mixed in there; but it\u2019s Google; right? We really shouldn\u2019t rely on man\u2019s thoughts. We need to align our thoughts and ways with God\u2019s because, after all, He is the <em>master<\/em> forgiver. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne lady, who has aligned her thoughts and ways with God, is Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. She has spent more than 50 years of her life walking with God. She\u2019s written numerous books, including <em>Choosing Forgiveness: Your Journey to Freedom<\/em>. I wanted you to hear her definition of forgiveness, because it\u2019s pretty powerful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Broadcast] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> You know, in essence, I think forgiveness is a promise. It\u2019s a promise that: \u201cI will <em>never<\/em> hold this offense against you again. I\u2019m not going to hold it against you to God, or to you, or to anyone else. I\u2019m clearing your record.\u201d Now, that raises, immediately, the question of: \u201cWell, if I release them\/if I let them go\u2014if I say, \u2018I\u2019m not going to hold this against them again,\u2019\u2014are they off the hook? Does that mean what they did doesn\u2019t matter?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we\u2019re really doing is saying: \u201cI\u2019m transferring this person from my courtroom to God\u2019s. I\u2019m not the judge; I\u2019m not the jury. I\u2019m a sinner, who is also in need of God\u2019s grace and forgiveness <em>every<\/em> day of my life.\u201d This person may have sinned in ways that I haven\u2019t or ways we would consider greater; but I\u2019m saying, \u201cI\u2019m transferring that person to God\u2019s custody.\u201d God is the wise judge, who will know what to do with that person and He knows how to bring <em>that<\/em> person to a place of repentance and restoration. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It really is an issue of faith\/of trusting that God is sovereign. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> And it\u2019s relinquishing control. I think, for me as a woman, that\u2019s what it is. A lot of times, I want to control how this person feels\u2014the consequences that they experience as a result of the choices they\u2019ve made. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt takes faith to say: \u201cYou know what? I\u2019m not God. I\u2019m not in charge; I\u2019m not in control. I\u2019m willing to let God have that role.\u201d When I take that step of releasing control\/releasing the offender from my courtroom, I\u2019m really opening my own life up for God\u2019s mercy and grace to flow through me in a greater way. I\u2019m in <em>desperate<\/em> need of that mercy and grace myself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> [Chuckling] You know, as you were talking, I was thinking, \u201cI have to correct you.\u201d You said, \u201cAs a woman, I\u2019m struggling with the issue of control.\u201d Well, I want you to know the other half of the species has a pretty big-time problem with control as well. <em>Men<\/em> struggle with being their own God\u2014pride\u2014not wanting to let go; but nurse those hurts as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re afraid\u2014don\u2019t you think?\u2014that if we just forgive, we\u2019re just saying, \u201cDo it again.\u201d I mean, if you let somebody off the hook, we\u2019re just inviting them\u2014saying, \u201cThere are no consequences for your actions; so, therefore, you are free to hurt me again.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> That\u2019s where, I think, we have to look at the power of the cross; because that\u2019s where we see God forgiving those who have sinned against Him by offering up His Son as a sacrifice to take the penalty for our sins. We see Jesus crying out, saying, \u201cFather, forgive them.\u201d Well, was that just license for us to sin more? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat happens is\u2014as we see the sacrifice that Christ made for our sins\/as we look at the cross, that provokes brokenness in us. That causes us to come to God, humbly, and say: \u201cI was wrong. I should have been there on that cross, but You died for me.\u201d It\u2019s the gospel; it\u2019s good news. We embrace Christ, and the gospel, and the forgiveness of God <em>because<\/em> of seeing His brokenness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, in many of our relationships\u2014marriages, parent-child relationships, siblings, churches\u2014that we\u2019re <em>not<\/em> seeing that brokenness, and that humility, and people coming to deal with their issues; because they\u2019ve not seen, in us, that example of the willingness to suffer\/the willingness to be wronged on behalf of another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Such good words from Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. Did you catch what she said?\u2014\u201cForgiveness is a promise. It\u2019s a promise that I\u2019ll never hold this offense against you again,\u201d\u2014clearing the record. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou remember how we started the show?\u2014Leslie Leyland Fields. She had packed up all of her kids; she was flying them from Alaska to Florida; and she went <em>all<\/em> that way to give her dad a chance to make things right with <em>her<\/em>. She sort of just washed her hands of him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, I want you to hear the rest of Leslie\u2019s story. It starts out with a word of advice to anyone struggling to forgive a particular parent. Here is Leslie. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> If you don\u2019t know much about your mother, or father, or whoever this person is\u2014about their childhood\/about the early years of their marriage\u2014go find out. Go find out however you can. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor me, it meant another trip down to Florida. My father had one living relative, a brother. I flew down, and I spent several <em>wonderful<\/em> hours with them, just learning about his childhood\/learning about what his experience was like. That gave me <em>deep<\/em> compassion for my father, because I recognized a whole pattern in his life\u2014a pattern of failure and a pattern of rejection. He was rejected by many people in his life. That broke my heart; because I began to see him, for the first time, as a human being rather than as just my father. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, I sometimes wonder if people, who struggle with being able to forgive a father, or a mother, or somebody who is offended them in a terrible way, if they really do understand what God\u2019s mercy toward them\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014has been. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s our problem every time we don\u2019t forgive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> I agree. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I think we are all just a step away from piously going, \u201cI\u2019m going to get back at you\u201d; because we\u2019ve forgotten God\u2019s mercy\/God\u2019s grace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> We\u2019ve forgotten who we were\u2014just really rotten, terrible sinners before God! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve minimized it; we\u2019ve dumbed it down. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Oh, yes; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s what we often do\u2014we go, \u201cWell, yes; I know God was gracious toward me, but I wasn\u2019t that bad.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Yes; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s our\u2014that\u2019s our thinking. That\u2019s why the Bible comes back and says: \u201cOh, no; oh, no. You were\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cYou did owe millions.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cYou did owe millions.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> \u201cYou did owe more than you could <em>ever<\/em> pay in your lifetime.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. Once you can get it, into your heart and head, that\u2019s true\u2014and God has released me from the obligation there\u2014then it\u2019s really hard to turn to the next person and say, \u201cBut you still owe me a pound of flesh in all of this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Leslie, I don\u2019t want to move <em>past<\/em> a message that is one that I know is on your heart; and that is, God has called us, as followers of Christ, to move into the world with this forgiveness\u2014to not just hoard it in our families but to express this forgiveness in the marketplace and that it would be a balm of healing and peace to all that we come in contact with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Absolutely; we are called\u2014forgiven people must be forgiving people. I hope that we can <em>start<\/em> right there in our families. I have to say my life has been changed. Forgiving my father has changed my life, because it is turning me into a person who <em>wants<\/em> to forgive\/who is ready and quick to forgive. I\u2019m not perfect. I\u2019m\u2014watch; someone is going to hear this broadcast, and they are going to test me. They are going to\u2014[Laughter]\u2014please don\u2019t do that! [Laughter]\u2014but my\u2014God showed me His heart of mercy toward my father. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy father was given people\u2014Christians, all along his path\u2014right up until the moment he died. That\u2019s how much God loved my father. He gave him unending moments of mercy to lead him to Himself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Leslie, there\u2019s one last question I want to ask you that is going to test that forgiveness you gave your dad. If I had the ability, right now, to seat your dad across the table from you\u2014and you could give him a tribute\/a verbal tribute, and Bob and I would leave the studio\u2014could you give him a tribute? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> I would honestly have a hard time saying: \u201cThank you for this,\u201d and \u201cThank you for that.\u201d I don\u2019t have a lot of things that I can thank him for, but I can thank him for <em>life<\/em>. I can thank him for showing me God\u2019s heart. I can thank him for receiving me when I flew down and visited with him. When I came down to be with him after his stroke, he listened to me. He heard me, I think, for the first time in my life. He heard me, and he <em>saw<\/em> me. I would thank him for those things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s tough. Can you imagine giving a tribute to a father who spent most of his life, kind of, missing in action? While there is not a lot that she can thank him for, Leslie Leyland Fields <em>chose<\/em> to thank him for her life and also for some of the moments that they were <em>finally<\/em> able to have once she forgave him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, those scales of justice in the courtroom that Nancy was talking about: \u201cAre they guilty, or are they innocent?\u201d\u2014those scales of justice belong in <em>God\u2019s<\/em> courtroom, not ours. Yes; I understand that this journey of forgiveness\u2014it\u2019s not easy. It\u2019s <em>not<\/em>, but it\u2019s <em>worth<\/em> it. After all, it\u2019s what our Savior did for us. As He hung on the cross, He said, \u201cFather, forgive them for they don\u2019t know what they are doing.\u201d That\u2019s something to think about if you\u2019re on your own forgiveness journey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is an issue that we\u2019ve dealt a lot with, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. We have a lot of helpful information for you at our website, along with Leslie Leyland Fields\u2019 entire journey of forgiving her father. That\u2019s located on our website, FamilyLifeThisWeek.com\u2014that\u2019s FamilyLifeThisWeek.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHey, next week, Ron Deal is going to talk about <em>loss<\/em> with us. He\u2019s going to talk about how to deal with it and how to be in the community that comes around the person who is suffering. I guarantee that it will be helpful and an enlightening conversation. You won\u2019t want to miss it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHey, thanks for listening! I want to thank the President of FamilyLife, David Robbins, along with our station partners around the country. A big \u201cThank you!\u201d to our engineer today, Meredith Empie. Thanks to our producers, Marques Holt and Bruce Goff. Justin Adams is our mastering engineer and second in command today; and Megan Martin, as always, is our production coordinator and helper with <em>all<\/em> the difficult pronunciations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur program is a production of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and our mission is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time. I'm Michelle Hill, inviting you to join us again next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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