{"id":305242,"date":"2019-08-05T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2019-08-05T10:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/wise-decisions-brave-men-make\/"},"modified":"2019-08-05T06:00:04","modified_gmt":"2019-08-05T10:00:04","slug":"wise-decisions-brave-men-make","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/wise-decisions-brave-men-make\/","title":{"rendered":"Wise Decisions Brave Men Make"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Gary Chapman and Clarence Shuler tell about the unique mentoring relationship they began when Shuler was a teen. Together they talk about the eleven wise decisions young men must make to live a great life.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-08-05.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:31","filesize":"25.19M","filesize_raw":"26411803","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2850,2826,2835,2855],"tags":[4096],"podcast_series":[8294],"cwp_profile":[9363,3353],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305242","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-character-development","category-men","category-raising-boys","category-teens","tag-mentoring","podcast_series-choose-greatness","cwp_profile-clarence-shuler","cwp_profile-gary-chapman","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305242\/wise-decisions-brave-men-make","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305242\/wise-decisions-brave-men-make","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"UB796hmWuL\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/wise-decisions-brave-men-make\/\">Wise Decisions Brave Men Make<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/wise-decisions-brave-men-make\/embed\/#?secret=UB796hmWuL\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Wise Decisions Brave Men Make&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"UB796hmWuL\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-08-05.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-08-05.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, August 5. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson, and I'm Bob Lepine. What can we do to help young men make good choices during their teen years? We'll talk with Gary Chapman and Clarence Shuler about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I know that one of the reasons that you look back on your days as an athlete\u2014I say look back on\u2014because it's past. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, honey!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you say it's past? Oh, what a way to start the day! [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> One of the reasons you look back with fondness on your time in high school and college athletics\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You might be talking about Ann here! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You look back on those\u2014not just for the athletic competition\u2014but those were character-shaping, character-forming experiences for you; weren't they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I think every athlete feels that way\u2014the thing you miss is not the game, it's the community and the guys you did it with\u2014and what it built you to be as a person\u2014I really do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Is there a dominant lesson learned as an athlete? I mean if you would say, \u201cThis marked me for life. I'm a different man because I learned this from playing football.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know what I think.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think it would be interesting to know what Ann thinks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, do you think there's something that marked him as a man from playing football?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Hmm. I'm interested that you wonder\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave<\/strong>: I can't walk very good anymore. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think it's that attitude of never give up. Never give in. Work hard and be a team player. Those are the first things that came to my mind.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>First thing that came to my mind\u2014perseverance. I mean\u2014those days when you had to run sprints at the end of practice in the pouring down rain. It was the worst. And it was the best, because it taught you\u2014that's life! You've got to grind through and get it done.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> One of the reasons to have this conversation about life lessons and character qualities that should be instilled in young men\u2014and young women\u2014but our focus today is really on young men. We've got some friends in the studio today with us who have given this a lot of thought and we're glad to have them\u2014Clarence Shuler and Gary Chapman joining us today. Welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence<\/strong>: Hello, Bob. Good to see you again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Gary Chapman. People go, \u201cI've heard that name before.\u201d Most listeners who are familiar with the Five Love Languages know that topic\u2014that book. You've gone on to write dozens of other books. Clarence has been a friend for two decades\u2014he's a part of the FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember\u00ae <\/em>conference speaker team. He and his wife, Brenda, speak at our getaways all across the country. The two of you actually crossed paths\u2014what did you tell me? 49 years ago? Is that right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> Well, 49 years ago, he led me to Christ, but I actually met him two years before that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, tell me the story. How'd you meet Gary? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> In Winston-Salem, North Carolina, 1968, my friend Russ was going to an integrated school and I was going to an all-black school\u2014and Russell was a ladies' man. [Laughter] These white girls invited him to this gym to play basketball\u2014this church had built a family life center.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> He was really short\u2014he was only like, four feet, seven inches tall. I was much taller\u2014I was four feet, eight. [Laughter] So I was his bodyguard\u2014because back then if you were black, you didn't go to a white situation by yourself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> We had to talk our parents into letting us go. That was really bold for the time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is North Carolina in '68.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> '68\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>About 100 kids\u2014only two black kids\u2014Russell and me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> So we went there and we started playing ball and this guy comes on the basketball court\u2014this adult\u2014and he's trying to play ball with us. He\u2019s really nice, but there was something different about him\u2014so I watched him for two years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> I'll never forget\u2014we were at this retreat in Hillsville, Virginia, and he said, \u201cIs your life complete\u2014or is there something missing in your life? I had great parents. I had a great older sister. I was doing well in school\u2014B student\u2014didn't have to study that hard. I made the basketball team, but\u2014and we had one of the best teams in the state\u2014but there was an emptiness inside. I struggled being black. I struggled being short. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, he shared John 3:16 with me. I'll never forget it. He said, \u201cFor God so loved Clarence\u2014\u201c\u00a0 And I knew enough about church\u2014I'd been baptized, sang in the choir, even though I wasn't a Christian\u2014I said that the verse doesn't go that way. [Laughter] He said, \u201cClarence, when God is thinking about the world, He's thinking about you.\u201d And that blew my mind.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How old were you, Clarence?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I was 16. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> I accepted Christ that night.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And Gary, your role at the church in 1968? Were you the youth pastor? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> I was an associate pastor, but I was doing young people's work and also directed our camp in the summer time. When Clarence and his friend walked in that night, I knew it was very different and somebody told me that some of our gals invited them and I said, \u201cGreat!\u201d\u2014so just went out and met them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Was the church a majority white church? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Our church was, yes. In fact, almost all the churches in the South were segregated at that time\u2014there wasn't a lot of interfacing between churches of different races. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So to have an African-American family show up at your church was\u2014was that a tense situation at all?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>Well, I think it may have been for some of the students\u2014and to me, it was obviously different\u2014but I was committed to reaching people, regardless of color. When I had been a student at Moody Bible Institute, I worked one summer at a summer Bible camp and I was the only white counselor in an all-black camp, so I'd had the experience on the other side of that. I really wanted these two guys to have a good experience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Don't you love this story? Isn't it great? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes. It's so good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>It was intense though, for us going. The church on the other side of the tracks\u2014you know in the South\u2014a lot of times railroad tracks determine who lives on what side. We walked\u2014it was about four miles from our house\u2014and we walked there. As soon as we crossed those railroad tracks we got serenaded with all kinds of names and people throwing bottles at us, so it was very seriously intense for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>From the white community\u2014or from your own community? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>From the white community. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That was scary for you, Clarence. What did that feel like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, we were teenagers, so we thought we were invincible. We were really fast, so we didn't worry about it. No one could hit us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes. Or catch you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>\u00a0\u2014or catch us. Yes\u2014that was not really an issue\u2014but it was a reality check for us. It's going to cost us something to go to this church. I was telling him, \u201cWe'd better be good if we're going to do something.\u201d But when we got there it turned out to be really great, and a safe environment\u2014I didn't know if it was going to be safe or not.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Your relationship with Gary started when you were a teenager, but it's continued through the years. He has been, from a distance\u2014a mentor\u2014a spiritual father to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> He started discipling me about a year later when I was 17. I ended up going to Moody Bible Institute. But then when there were crises in my life, he was always there\u2014and even before. I'll never forget when I was at Moody, and I was working about 34 hours a week because my parents couldn't afford to send me to school, and stuff like that. He sent me a sweater\u2014he even sent me some money.\u00a0 30 bucks\u2014\u201dBuy a sweater. I saw the weather forecast and it's going to be cold. Get a sweater.\u201d I'm like, \u201cWho is this guy?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen my dad died\u2014when I was 20\u2014the first person I called was not my mom, I called Gary. I said, \u201cMy dad has died\u2014go take care of my mom.\u201d You know, until I could get home. You know, he kind of became my spiritual dad. I mean he was my spiritual dad, but he also became my dad like\u2014even if he wasn't old enough\u2014but really my dad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There were a lot of young people in your church. God gave you a special heart for Clarence and his family; didn't he?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>Yes, He did. The very fact that they came to me spoke the fact that they were interested\u2014they wanted, you know. And I learned a lot. I remember once, early on, I was going to pick up Clarence and his friend over at his house and take them somewhere. I pulled up in front of the house, I get out of the car, and they walk out on the porch. And I say, \u201cYou boys ready to go?\u201d And his buddy said, \u201cI ain't no boy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said, \u201cOkay, we need to talk\u2014I need to listen.\u201d That was the beginning. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's trying to understand each other and learn from each other\u2014with the differences in cultures. Of course, back then, it was huge. I remember in Winston-Salem, in 1967\u2014they brought out the National Guard and they were standing on the streets, for fear that something was going to happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you ever think that some 40 years later you'd be sitting here\u2014still in relationship\u2014still connected?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> I was excited to accept Christ, but I didn't know what relationship he and I would have. I didn't know if I would just be a stat\u2014\u201dI led some black kid to the Lord.\u201d I didn't know what it would be like. For me, it was very risky. But without question, becoming a Christian was the best decision I ever made. Then, having this guy in my life is priceless. He's grandpa to my kids, too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>I don't think either one of us ever thought we were going to write books. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But you had an idea for a book\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>I don't know about\u2014not back then. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But a few years ago you had an idea for a book\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>I did, yes, I did. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It was a burden that God had put on your heart for young men growing up in the African-American community\u2014a lot of them fatherless.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A lot of them facing economic disadvantage. I was listening to guys talk recently about the two Americas\u2014white America and black America being two different Americas. The experience of growing up in the black community is a different experience than what I experienced growing up in the white suburbs. So, your burden was to try to find a way to communicate character issues to these young men who are growing up without a dad speaking this into their life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Yes, I wanted to address, not only blacks, but whites, and hispanics\u2014all young people.\u00a0 The thesis of this book is that the decisions a young man makes in those years\u201411-18 or so\u2014are going to greatly impact the rest of his life. And we know that we are losing far too many young men by the time they get to be 18. They're already on a track that's destructive, for them and others. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd it's not just the black community; it's the white community and the hispanic community as well. But I really did have a burden for the African-American community. That's why I knew, when I was going to write this book\u2014I've written a lot of other books before\u2014but I knew I was going to write this one with Clarence.\u00a0 Assuming he would write it with me. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How did that conversation go? Did you say, \u201cI have an idea for a book. Would you be interested?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Do you remember, Clarence? [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Yes, he just said that he'd been praying about writing a book, but he wanted to write it to young men. He didn't necessarily say African-American\u2014but just young men. And he said that the name that keeps coming up to write it with him was mine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was really excited because he's had success writing more than two books. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI've written a few, but not on that scale. So that was really a big deal for me\u2014to do something together\u2014because again, it's not just writing with him because he's famous or whatever\u2014it's because he's like one of my dads. To me, the bonus is spending time with him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob: Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Even in that, just his generosity and graciousness in writing the book\u2014so open to stuff\u2014that is special to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, I'm just imagining\u2014Gary Chapman calls and says, \u201cWould you like to write a book together?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cLet me pray about that, yes.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>It was like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014it doesn't take a whole lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe 11 character qualities in <em>Choose Greatness<\/em>\u2014did you have these qualities in mind when you got together? Or did you and Clarence brainstorm these 11 together? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>I think we brainstormed them together. Just looking at\u2014what are the issues here? What are the challenges? If you could give 11 challenges to young men in making wise decisions, what would be the areas you'd want to address? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were there some that you came in knowing\u2014I definitely know that I want to make sure we talk about\u2014like if it was Dave\u2014he's going to talk about perseverance as one of those things. Did you have some of those things already on your heart?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>Yes, I think that both of us did. On my heart was the whole area of sexuality because I work with so many young adults who have really messed up their lives in that area. And the other was the whole area of drugs and alcohol. So yes, there were some that were really on the front burner with me.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut there's a lot of other decisions that a young person has to make. It's not just <em>not<\/em>doing certain things\u2014it's <em>doing<\/em>certain things as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Clarence, did you have some hot topics that you thought\u2014these things need to be addressed? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> I can't remember who did what, but I think that whole idea of having a mentor \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tor a father-like deal was a big deal for us\u2014the wisdom that you get from a parent was something that I thought we should have in the book. The diverse part was\u2014I don't know if that was mine or yours\u2014but that's important, too, especially in this climate today\u2014it\u2019s always been, but for us, it's been kind of a big deal that we're talking about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> I think the whole concept of trying to develop friendships across racial and cultural lines\u2014that was one of the challenges we gave\u2014choose to build diverse friendships because our relationship has meant so much to both of us\u2014and to our families\u2014it's not just us\u2014it's our families. We are family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tClarence knows that everything I have is his, and I know that everything that he has is mine. That's just the way it is in a family. So, we wanted other people to experience what we've experienced. So the challenge is\u2014don't let all of your friends be of the same race or the same culture, but learn to develop friendships across cultural and racial lines. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>As you think back\u2014this has been a long, long relationship\u2014and it's really unique\u2014very unique. Looking across the table at you two\u2014it's like this doesn't happen every day. We're going to dive in to some of the thoughts from the book, but what is a learning you've learned from each other as you've mentored and had this relationship? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDoes one thing jump out from either one of you? Like, \u201cI have learned this from Clarence. I have learned this from Gary about life, or about anything.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> I think for me\u2014two things. One\u2014it's okay to be different. Different doesn't mean less than or more than. I think with Gary\u2014when we first started meeting\u2014because white guys didn't come to my neighborhood unless we were paying bills\u2014so the white guy came to your house to collect\u2014stuff like that. So, for him to come to my neighborhood\u2014to me\u2014he might not know\u2014it took tremendous courage. That was not necessarily a safe place for him to come into. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut when we had the issue\u2014when he called us boys\u2014and we were 14, and we were boys\u2014we had seen our dads be called boys, and they were grown men\u2014but the fact that he stopped afterwards and before we got home, we talked\u2014maybe an hour or two\u2014I'm not sure. But he gave us perspective, so it helped me to learn to listen. It helped me to at least to think about giving people the benefit of the doubt, when we have a different perspective on issues. Those are two big things that resonate with me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Those are huge. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>I agree with that. I think one of the big benefits for me is that Clarence and his friends really helped me listen and understand a different perspective. We all grow up in our own world and that's the way we see the world, but somebody else grew up in a different world, and so listening to them and understanding them, and then realizing that in spite of the differences, we can have a good relationship\u2014we can have a friendship. We can love and help and encourage each other. That's probably the biggest thing for me is the benefit of having that kind of friend.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I love the\u2014the simple fact that can easily be missed is that you both had courage. You, to go to a white church as a young man\u2014many people have never done that\u2014you did it. Here's the result\u2014you walking into a black community and saying, \u201cI don't care. This is God's heart. I'm going to step through a wall to make a difference.\u201d\u00a0 And here we are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, I'm really not that spiritual\u2014it was basketball. [Laughter] I'm a teenage boy. No, it was girls\u2014and the girls couldn't help it that they were white. We just had to overlook that. [Laughter] I wasn\u2019t going to be that spiritual.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSomething you also need to know about Gary\u2014the more time I spent with him, the more I'm learning about him. I'm not the first black guy in his life. He grew up playing basketball as a teenager with black guys. His daughter, Shelley, found a picture of him when he was at Moody\u2014he's got a Sunday School class and he's got these kids, and they're all black. He's holding a black girl in his arms, and he's like 20 years old. So, I'm not the first guy\u2014I didn't put this cross-cultural thing in his heart\u2014he's always had that\u2014or he had it before me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Gary, I just have to ask you\u2014as a pastor in the South in the 60s\u2014with that being a part of just who you were\u2014did that create challenges for you? Did you have people who said, \u201cWhat are you doing spending all of your time those folks?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> I didn't have anybody say that, but I do remember one day in our church\u2014because Clarence started coming to the church, after he became a Christian\u2014one guy said, \u201cWho's that black dude with you today at church? I said, \u201cHe's not a black dude. That's Clarence.\u201d So you know\u2014there was some of that. Any time you cross over into places where you don't normally go or see people\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>\u2014there's some of that. But, I didn't have a lot of pushback, to be honest with you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think that's unusual, which probably says something about your character, and something about the environment, the culture that church created. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, another thing, too. He would have me come to his house every Saturday morning and do discipleship. I would see his neighbors look at him when I'm coming into the house, and I'd not seen that look before. I don't know if he saw it, or just ignored it, but I saw it\u2014so I was concerned for him and his safety, by me being his friend.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. I want our listeners to know what you're addressing in this book. This is actually a book that you've written with young men in mind\u2014not with their dads. This is a book a young man could read, or a youth pastor could take him through. Eleven wise decisions that a young man could make that would reshape\u2014redirect his life. And again, it doesn't matter whether he's growing up in a black community, white community. These are just decisions that are wisdom decisions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tChoose to seek wisdom from parents and trusted adults. Choose to seek knowledge through education. Choose to make technology work for you. Choose to be successful\u2014work hard. Choose to respect girls and women. Choose to be sexually responsible. Choose to live longer and happier, that is\u2014avoid drugs and alcohol. And the second part of that is\u2014avoid tobacco and marijuana. Choose to build diverse friendships. Choose to invest time in helping others. And choose to discover the truth about God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'm looking at the 11 wise decisions and I'm thinking that I could have used this book when I was 13 years old. I made some of those decisions, but not all of them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Gary, were these some of the topics that you and Clarence hit growing up? Or were you thinking, \u201cYes, I would have used this book and these are some of the things that we would have gone through.\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>I think some of them, perhaps, grew out of our own experiences. We in fact, share a lot of our own experiences in the book, in terms of how we handled these\u2014when we did make wise decisions\u2014and sometimes when we didn't make wise decisions and looking back in terms of how that impacted us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I used to, on Saturday mornings, take my sons, one at a time, out for what I called \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tManhood Training. We'd go down and get breakfast together and talk about what it means for a boy to be a man. If I'd had a book like this, with an eight year old, nine year old son, start peppering him with these ideas\u2014this is the kind of stuff\u2014before the hormones hit, before puberty comes on\u2014start salting the mind of your son with these ideas. It will reshape the trajectory of his life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat's why I'm excited that we've got copies of this book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center that we can share with our listeners. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order your copy of the book, <em>Choose Greatness: 11 Wise Decisions that Brave Young Men Make<\/em>. You can order online at FamilyLifeToday.com or you can call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain the website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Or call 1-800-358-6329. That's 1-800-\u201dF\u201d as in FAMILY, \u201cL\u201d as LIFE, and then the word TODAY. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow I need to give you a little bit of an update on what has been going on over the past year. It was about a year ago that we introduced <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em> video series that was connected with the movie that was in theaters called <em>Like Arrows.<\/em> By the way, if you haven't seen <em>Like Arrows<\/em>, it's on Netflix now or you can rent it on Amazon or iTunes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's a theatrical dramatic film that talks about parenting. It's the beginning of what we hope will be an ongoing conversation with parents. That's why we created an eight-part video series called <em>The Art of Parenting. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we launched it, we had a prayer goal, and that was that we would be able to touch more than a million lives over three years in the top language groups in the world. And by God's grace, we've impacted more than 350,000 people so far with <em>The Art of Parenting <\/em>video series. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, we got a note recently from a woman in Yucatan, Mexico, who said, \u201cI've now spent two Saturdays taking <em>The Art of Parenting <\/em>course. The content is very good. It's been a great blessing to our family. We went to see the movie,<em> Like Arrows\u2014Como Fleches<\/em>.\u00a0 We saw it twice in the theater and I've learned a lot. I'm trying to put all of this into practice. Thank you a thousand times.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>The Art of Parenting<\/em> and <em>Like Arrows<\/em> are in English. It's been translated Spanish, and it's currently being translated into Arabic and Mandarin. We were sharing all of this with a friend of ours recently and this couple got so excited about what we were doing that they said, \u201cWe want to help accelerate this movement of parenting that <em>FamilyLife <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\thas begun.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey offered a matching gift of 500,000 dollars to go towards translations and distribution of <em>The Art of Parentin<\/em>g video content. During the month of August, we're hoping to take full advantage of that matching gift. When you make a donation to the ministry of <em>FamilyLife<\/em>, your donations are going to be matched dollar for dollar. You'll be helping not only expand the work of <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em>, but all that we're doing here at <em>FamilyLife<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour donations are vital; they keep this radio program on the air. They keep us online worldwide, and they help us accelerate things like <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em> video series, and the other resources <em>FamilyLife<\/em> has available. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe're asking you if you will make a donation this month. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Make as generous a donation as you possibly can. That donation will be matched dollar for dollar, up to 500,000 dollars. We will also send you as a thank you gift, a copy of <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em> book, by Dennis and Barbara Rainey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo again, donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. And thanks in advance for helping accelerate the ministry of <em>FamilyLife <\/em>through your donations.<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us back tomorrow. Clarence Shuler and Dr. Gary Chapman will be here again. We're going to talk about some of the specific conversations moms and dads need to have with their teenage sons as they go through the teen years. I hope you can tune in for that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:31"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.19M"],"filesize_raw":["26411803"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305242.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305242.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Chapman and Clarence Shuler tell about the unique mentoring relationship they began when Shuler was a teen. Together they talk about the eleven wise decisions young men must make to live a great life.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-08-05.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, August 5. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson, and I'm Bob Lepine. What can we do to help young men make good choices during their teen years? We'll talk with Gary Chapman and Clarence Shuler about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I know that one of the reasons that you look back on your days as an athlete\u2014I say look back on\u2014because it's past. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, honey!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you say it's past? Oh, what a way to start the day! [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> One of the reasons you look back with fondness on your time in high school and college athletics\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You might be talking about Ann here! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You look back on those\u2014not just for the athletic competition\u2014but those were character-shaping, character-forming experiences for you; weren't they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I think every athlete feels that way\u2014the thing you miss is not the game, it's the community and the guys you did it with\u2014and what it built you to be as a person\u2014I really do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Is there a dominant lesson learned as an athlete? I mean if you would say, \u201cThis marked me for life. I'm a different man because I learned this from playing football.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know what I think.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think it would be interesting to know what Ann thinks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, do you think there's something that marked him as a man from playing football?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Hmm. I'm interested that you wonder\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave<\/strong>: I can't walk very good anymore. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think it's that attitude of never give up. Never give in. Work hard and be a team player. Those are the first things that came to my mind.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>First thing that came to my mind\u2014perseverance. I mean\u2014those days when you had to run sprints at the end of practice in the pouring down rain. It was the worst. And it was the best, because it taught you\u2014that's life! You've got to grind through and get it done.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> One of the reasons to have this conversation about life lessons and character qualities that should be instilled in young men\u2014and young women\u2014but our focus today is really on young men. We've got some friends in the studio today with us who have given this a lot of thought and we're glad to have them\u2014Clarence Shuler and Gary Chapman joining us today. Welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence<\/strong>: Hello, Bob. Good to see you again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Gary Chapman. People go, \u201cI've heard that name before.\u201d Most listeners who are familiar with the Five Love Languages know that topic\u2014that book. You've gone on to write dozens of other books. Clarence has been a friend for two decades\u2014he's a part of the FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember\u00ae <\/em>conference speaker team. He and his wife, Brenda, speak at our getaways all across the country. The two of you actually crossed paths\u2014what did you tell me? 49 years ago? Is that right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> Well, 49 years ago, he led me to Christ, but I actually met him two years before that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, tell me the story. How'd you meet Gary? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> In Winston-Salem, North Carolina, 1968, my friend Russ was going to an integrated school and I was going to an all-black school\u2014and Russell was a ladies' man. [Laughter] These white girls invited him to this gym to play basketball\u2014this church had built a family life center.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> He was really short\u2014he was only like, four feet, seven inches tall. I was much taller\u2014I was four feet, eight. [Laughter] So I was his bodyguard\u2014because back then if you were black, you didn't go to a white situation by yourself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> We had to talk our parents into letting us go. That was really bold for the time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is North Carolina in '68.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> '68\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>About 100 kids\u2014only two black kids\u2014Russell and me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> So we went there and we started playing ball and this guy comes on the basketball court\u2014this adult\u2014and he's trying to play ball with us. He\u2019s really nice, but there was something different about him\u2014so I watched him for two years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> I'll never forget\u2014we were at this retreat in Hillsville, Virginia, and he said, \u201cIs your life complete\u2014or is there something missing in your life? I had great parents. I had a great older sister. I was doing well in school\u2014B student\u2014didn't have to study that hard. I made the basketball team, but\u2014and we had one of the best teams in the state\u2014but there was an emptiness inside. I struggled being black. I struggled being short. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, he shared John 3:16 with me. I'll never forget it. He said, \u201cFor God so loved Clarence\u2014\u201c\u00a0 And I knew enough about church\u2014I'd been baptized, sang in the choir, even though I wasn't a Christian\u2014I said that the verse doesn't go that way. [Laughter] He said, \u201cClarence, when God is thinking about the world, He's thinking about you.\u201d And that blew my mind.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How old were you, Clarence?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>I was 16. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> I accepted Christ that night.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And Gary, your role at the church in 1968? Were you the youth pastor? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> I was an associate pastor, but I was doing young people's work and also directed our camp in the summer time. When Clarence and his friend walked in that night, I knew it was very different and somebody told me that some of our gals invited them and I said, \u201cGreat!\u201d\u2014so just went out and met them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Was the church a majority white church? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Our church was, yes. In fact, almost all the churches in the South were segregated at that time\u2014there wasn't a lot of interfacing between churches of different races. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So to have an African-American family show up at your church was\u2014was that a tense situation at all?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>Well, I think it may have been for some of the students\u2014and to me, it was obviously different\u2014but I was committed to reaching people, regardless of color. When I had been a student at Moody Bible Institute, I worked one summer at a summer Bible camp and I was the only white counselor in an all-black camp, so I'd had the experience on the other side of that. I really wanted these two guys to have a good experience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Don't you love this story? Isn't it great? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes. It's so good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>It was intense though, for us going. The church on the other side of the tracks\u2014you know in the South\u2014a lot of times railroad tracks determine who lives on what side. We walked\u2014it was about four miles from our house\u2014and we walked there. As soon as we crossed those railroad tracks we got serenaded with all kinds of names and people throwing bottles at us, so it was very seriously intense for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>From the white community\u2014or from your own community? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>From the white community. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That was scary for you, Clarence. What did that feel like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, we were teenagers, so we thought we were invincible. We were really fast, so we didn't worry about it. No one could hit us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes. Or catch you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>\u00a0\u2014or catch us. Yes\u2014that was not really an issue\u2014but it was a reality check for us. It's going to cost us something to go to this church. I was telling him, \u201cWe'd better be good if we're going to do something.\u201d But when we got there it turned out to be really great, and a safe environment\u2014I didn't know if it was going to be safe or not.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Your relationship with Gary started when you were a teenager, but it's continued through the years. He has been, from a distance\u2014a mentor\u2014a spiritual father to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> He started discipling me about a year later when I was 17. I ended up going to Moody Bible Institute. But then when there were crises in my life, he was always there\u2014and even before. I'll never forget when I was at Moody, and I was working about 34 hours a week because my parents couldn't afford to send me to school, and stuff like that. He sent me a sweater\u2014he even sent me some money.\u00a0 30 bucks\u2014\u201dBuy a sweater. I saw the weather forecast and it's going to be cold. Get a sweater.\u201d I'm like, \u201cWho is this guy?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen my dad died\u2014when I was 20\u2014the first person I called was not my mom, I called Gary. I said, \u201cMy dad has died\u2014go take care of my mom.\u201d You know, until I could get home. You know, he kind of became my spiritual dad. I mean he was my spiritual dad, but he also became my dad like\u2014even if he wasn't old enough\u2014but really my dad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There were a lot of young people in your church. God gave you a special heart for Clarence and his family; didn't he?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>Yes, He did. The very fact that they came to me spoke the fact that they were interested\u2014they wanted, you know. And I learned a lot. I remember once, early on, I was going to pick up Clarence and his friend over at his house and take them somewhere. I pulled up in front of the house, I get out of the car, and they walk out on the porch. And I say, \u201cYou boys ready to go?\u201d And his buddy said, \u201cI ain't no boy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said, \u201cOkay, we need to talk\u2014I need to listen.\u201d That was the beginning. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's trying to understand each other and learn from each other\u2014with the differences in cultures. Of course, back then, it was huge. I remember in Winston-Salem, in 1967\u2014they brought out the National Guard and they were standing on the streets, for fear that something was going to happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you ever think that some 40 years later you'd be sitting here\u2014still in relationship\u2014still connected?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> I was excited to accept Christ, but I didn't know what relationship he and I would have. I didn't know if I would just be a stat\u2014\u201dI led some black kid to the Lord.\u201d I didn't know what it would be like. For me, it was very risky. But without question, becoming a Christian was the best decision I ever made. Then, having this guy in my life is priceless. He's grandpa to my kids, too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>I don't think either one of us ever thought we were going to write books. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But you had an idea for a book\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>I don't know about\u2014not back then. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But a few years ago you had an idea for a book\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>I did, yes, I did. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It was a burden that God had put on your heart for young men growing up in the African-American community\u2014a lot of them fatherless.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A lot of them facing economic disadvantage. I was listening to guys talk recently about the two Americas\u2014white America and black America being two different Americas. The experience of growing up in the black community is a different experience than what I experienced growing up in the white suburbs. So, your burden was to try to find a way to communicate character issues to these young men who are growing up without a dad speaking this into their life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Yes, I wanted to address, not only blacks, but whites, and hispanics\u2014all young people.\u00a0 The thesis of this book is that the decisions a young man makes in those years\u201411-18 or so\u2014are going to greatly impact the rest of his life. And we know that we are losing far too many young men by the time they get to be 18. They're already on a track that's destructive, for them and others. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd it's not just the black community; it's the white community and the hispanic community as well. But I really did have a burden for the African-American community. That's why I knew, when I was going to write this book\u2014I've written a lot of other books before\u2014but I knew I was going to write this one with Clarence.\u00a0 Assuming he would write it with me. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How did that conversation go? Did you say, \u201cI have an idea for a book. Would you be interested?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Do you remember, Clarence? [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Yes, he just said that he'd been praying about writing a book, but he wanted to write it to young men. He didn't necessarily say African-American\u2014but just young men. And he said that the name that keeps coming up to write it with him was mine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was really excited because he's had success writing more than two books. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI've written a few, but not on that scale. So that was really a big deal for me\u2014to do something together\u2014because again, it's not just writing with him because he's famous or whatever\u2014it's because he's like one of my dads. To me, the bonus is spending time with him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob: Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Even in that, just his generosity and graciousness in writing the book\u2014so open to stuff\u2014that is special to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, I'm just imagining\u2014Gary Chapman calls and says, \u201cWould you like to write a book together?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cLet me pray about that, yes.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>It was like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014it doesn't take a whole lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe 11 character qualities in <em>Choose Greatness<\/em>\u2014did you have these qualities in mind when you got together? Or did you and Clarence brainstorm these 11 together? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>I think we brainstormed them together. Just looking at\u2014what are the issues here? What are the challenges? If you could give 11 challenges to young men in making wise decisions, what would be the areas you'd want to address? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were there some that you came in knowing\u2014I definitely know that I want to make sure we talk about\u2014like if it was Dave\u2014he's going to talk about perseverance as one of those things. Did you have some of those things already on your heart?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>Yes, I think that both of us did. On my heart was the whole area of sexuality because I work with so many young adults who have really messed up their lives in that area. And the other was the whole area of drugs and alcohol. So yes, there were some that were really on the front burner with me.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut there's a lot of other decisions that a young person has to make. It's not just <em>not<\/em>doing certain things\u2014it's <em>doing<\/em>certain things as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Clarence, did you have some hot topics that you thought\u2014these things need to be addressed? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> I can't remember who did what, but I think that whole idea of having a mentor \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tor a father-like deal was a big deal for us\u2014the wisdom that you get from a parent was something that I thought we should have in the book. The diverse part was\u2014I don't know if that was mine or yours\u2014but that's important, too, especially in this climate today\u2014it\u2019s always been, but for us, it's been kind of a big deal that we're talking about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> I think the whole concept of trying to develop friendships across racial and cultural lines\u2014that was one of the challenges we gave\u2014choose to build diverse friendships because our relationship has meant so much to both of us\u2014and to our families\u2014it's not just us\u2014it's our families. We are family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tClarence knows that everything I have is his, and I know that everything that he has is mine. That's just the way it is in a family. So, we wanted other people to experience what we've experienced. So the challenge is\u2014don't let all of your friends be of the same race or the same culture, but learn to develop friendships across cultural and racial lines. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>As you think back\u2014this has been a long, long relationship\u2014and it's really unique\u2014very unique. Looking across the table at you two\u2014it's like this doesn't happen every day. We're going to dive in to some of the thoughts from the book, but what is a learning you've learned from each other as you've mentored and had this relationship? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDoes one thing jump out from either one of you? Like, \u201cI have learned this from Clarence. I have learned this from Gary about life, or about anything.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence:<\/strong> I think for me\u2014two things. One\u2014it's okay to be different. Different doesn't mean less than or more than. I think with Gary\u2014when we first started meeting\u2014because white guys didn't come to my neighborhood unless we were paying bills\u2014so the white guy came to your house to collect\u2014stuff like that. So, for him to come to my neighborhood\u2014to me\u2014he might not know\u2014it took tremendous courage. That was not necessarily a safe place for him to come into. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut when we had the issue\u2014when he called us boys\u2014and we were 14, and we were boys\u2014we had seen our dads be called boys, and they were grown men\u2014but the fact that he stopped afterwards and before we got home, we talked\u2014maybe an hour or two\u2014I'm not sure. But he gave us perspective, so it helped me to learn to listen. It helped me to at least to think about giving people the benefit of the doubt, when we have a different perspective on issues. Those are two big things that resonate with me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Those are huge. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>I agree with that. I think one of the big benefits for me is that Clarence and his friends really helped me listen and understand a different perspective. We all grow up in our own world and that's the way we see the world, but somebody else grew up in a different world, and so listening to them and understanding them, and then realizing that in spite of the differences, we can have a good relationship\u2014we can have a friendship. We can love and help and encourage each other. That's probably the biggest thing for me is the benefit of having that kind of friend.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I love the\u2014the simple fact that can easily be missed is that you both had courage. You, to go to a white church as a young man\u2014many people have never done that\u2014you did it. Here's the result\u2014you walking into a black community and saying, \u201cI don't care. This is God's heart. I'm going to step through a wall to make a difference.\u201d\u00a0 And here we are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, I'm really not that spiritual\u2014it was basketball. [Laughter] I'm a teenage boy. No, it was girls\u2014and the girls couldn't help it that they were white. We just had to overlook that. [Laughter] I wasn\u2019t going to be that spiritual.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSomething you also need to know about Gary\u2014the more time I spent with him, the more I'm learning about him. I'm not the first black guy in his life. He grew up playing basketball as a teenager with black guys. His daughter, Shelley, found a picture of him when he was at Moody\u2014he's got a Sunday School class and he's got these kids, and they're all black. He's holding a black girl in his arms, and he's like 20 years old. So, I'm not the first guy\u2014I didn't put this cross-cultural thing in his heart\u2014he's always had that\u2014or he had it before me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Gary, I just have to ask you\u2014as a pastor in the South in the 60s\u2014with that being a part of just who you were\u2014did that create challenges for you? Did you have people who said, \u201cWhat are you doing spending all of your time those folks?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> I didn't have anybody say that, but I do remember one day in our church\u2014because Clarence started coming to the church, after he became a Christian\u2014one guy said, \u201cWho's that black dude with you today at church? I said, \u201cHe's not a black dude. That's Clarence.\u201d So you know\u2014there was some of that. Any time you cross over into places where you don't normally go or see people\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>\u2014there's some of that. But, I didn't have a lot of pushback, to be honest with you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think that's unusual, which probably says something about your character, and something about the environment, the culture that church created. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Clarence: <\/strong>Well, another thing, too. He would have me come to his house every Saturday morning and do discipleship. I would see his neighbors look at him when I'm coming into the house, and I'd not seen that look before. I don't know if he saw it, or just ignored it, but I saw it\u2014so I was concerned for him and his safety, by me being his friend.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. I want our listeners to know what you're addressing in this book. This is actually a book that you've written with young men in mind\u2014not with their dads. This is a book a young man could read, or a youth pastor could take him through. Eleven wise decisions that a young man could make that would reshape\u2014redirect his life. And again, it doesn't matter whether he's growing up in a black community, white community. These are just decisions that are wisdom decisions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tChoose to seek wisdom from parents and trusted adults. Choose to seek knowledge through education. Choose to make technology work for you. Choose to be successful\u2014work hard. Choose to respect girls and women. Choose to be sexually responsible. Choose to live longer and happier, that is\u2014avoid drugs and alcohol. And the second part of that is\u2014avoid tobacco and marijuana. Choose to build diverse friendships. Choose to invest time in helping others. And choose to discover the truth about God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'm looking at the 11 wise decisions and I'm thinking that I could have used this book when I was 13 years old. I made some of those decisions, but not all of them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Gary, were these some of the topics that you and Clarence hit growing up? Or were you thinking, \u201cYes, I would have used this book and these are some of the things that we would have gone through.\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary: <\/strong>I think some of them, perhaps, grew out of our own experiences. We in fact, share a lot of our own experiences in the book, in terms of how we handled these\u2014when we did make wise decisions\u2014and sometimes when we didn't make wise decisions and looking back in terms of how that impacted us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I used to, on Saturday mornings, take my sons, one at a time, out for what I called \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tManhood Training. We'd go down and get breakfast together and talk about what it means for a boy to be a man. If I'd had a book like this, with an eight year old, nine year old son, start peppering him with these ideas\u2014this is the kind of stuff\u2014before the hormones hit, before puberty comes on\u2014start salting the mind of your son with these ideas. It will reshape the trajectory of his life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat's why I'm excited that we've got copies of this book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center that we can share with our listeners. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order your copy of the book, <em>Choose Greatness: 11 Wise Decisions that Brave Young Men Make<\/em>. You can order online at FamilyLifeToday.com or you can call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain the website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Or call 1-800-358-6329. That's 1-800-\u201dF\u201d as in FAMILY, \u201cL\u201d as LIFE, and then the word TODAY. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow I need to give you a little bit of an update on what has been going on over the past year. It was about a year ago that we introduced <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em> video series that was connected with the movie that was in theaters called <em>Like Arrows.<\/em> By the way, if you haven't seen <em>Like Arrows<\/em>, it's on Netflix now or you can rent it on Amazon or iTunes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's a theatrical dramatic film that talks about parenting. It's the beginning of what we hope will be an ongoing conversation with parents. That's why we created an eight-part video series called <em>The Art of Parenting. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we launched it, we had a prayer goal, and that was that we would be able to touch more than a million lives over three years in the top language groups in the world. And by God's grace, we've impacted more than 350,000 people so far with <em>The Art of Parenting <\/em>video series. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, we got a note recently from a woman in Yucatan, Mexico, who said, \u201cI've now spent two Saturdays taking <em>The Art of Parenting <\/em>course. The content is very good. It's been a great blessing to our family. We went to see the movie,<em> Like Arrows\u2014Como Fleches<\/em>.\u00a0 We saw it twice in the theater and I've learned a lot. I'm trying to put all of this into practice. Thank you a thousand times.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>The Art of Parenting<\/em> and <em>Like Arrows<\/em> are in English. It's been translated Spanish, and it's currently being translated into Arabic and Mandarin. We were sharing all of this with a friend of ours recently and this couple got so excited about what we were doing that they said, \u201cWe want to help accelerate this movement of parenting that <em>FamilyLife <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\thas begun.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey offered a matching gift of 500,000 dollars to go towards translations and distribution of <em>The Art of Parentin<\/em>g video content. During the month of August, we're hoping to take full advantage of that matching gift. When you make a donation to the ministry of <em>FamilyLife<\/em>, your donations are going to be matched dollar for dollar. You'll be helping not only expand the work of <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em>, but all that we're doing here at <em>FamilyLife<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour donations are vital; they keep this radio program on the air. They keep us online worldwide, and they help us accelerate things like <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em> video series, and the other resources <em>FamilyLife<\/em> has available. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe're asking you if you will make a donation this month. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Make as generous a donation as you possibly can. That donation will be matched dollar for dollar, up to 500,000 dollars. We will also send you as a thank you gift, a copy of <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em> book, by Dennis and Barbara Rainey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo again, donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. And thanks in advance for helping accelerate the ministry of <em>FamilyLife <\/em>through your donations.<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us back tomorrow. Clarence Shuler and Dr. Gary Chapman will be here again. We're going to talk about some of the specific conversations moms and dads need to have with their teenage sons as they go through the teen years. I hope you can tune in for that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/305242","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305242"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305242"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305242"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305242"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=305242"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=305242"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=305242"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}