{"id":305161,"date":"2019-07-17T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2019-07-17T10:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/settling-the-money-issues\/"},"modified":"2019-07-17T06:00:04","modified_gmt":"2019-07-17T10:00:04","slug":"settling-the-money-issues","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/settling-the-money-issues\/","title":{"rendered":"Settling the Money Issues"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Scott Kedersha talks about financial differences a man and a woman bring into a marriage. He explains to Dave and Ann Wilson why he encourages couples considering marriage to ask some hard financial questions.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-07-17.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:44","filesize":"24.48M","filesize_raw":"25667855","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2817,2807,2855],"tags":[4018,6671,2926],"podcast_series":[8289],"cwp_profile":[3641],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305161","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-choosing-a-spouse","category-engagements-and-weddings","category-teens","tag-dating","tag-important-conversations","tag-singles","podcast_series-ready-or-knot","cwp_profile-scott-kedersha","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305161\/settling-the-money-issues","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305161\/settling-the-money-issues","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"eeucqSs2tz\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/settling-the-money-issues\/\">Settling the Money Issues<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/settling-the-money-issues\/embed\/#?secret=eeucqSs2tz\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Settling the Money Issues&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"eeucqSs2tz\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-07-17.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-07-17.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How open and transparent should couples be with each other as they\u2019re thinking about marriage, especially as it relates to their past? Well, here\u2019s how pastor Scott Kedersha handled this with the woman who would become his wife.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>We sat down before I proposed, and I wanted her to <em>know<\/em> about my past. I wanted her to know what boundaries I had crossed, the things that I did that I was ashamed of. My body was going to become hers\u20141 Corinthians 7\u2014after we say, \u201cI do\u201d; so I wanted her to know what she was getting. I wanted her to know where my present struggles were and how I was getting help in those areas. We sat down; I shared those things with her\/asked for her forgiveness; we cried. It was such a trust-building conversation; because I wasn\u2019t hiding anything, going into marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, July 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. What kinds of conversations should couples be having before they say, \u201cI do\u201d? We\u2019re going to talk about that today with Scott Kedersha. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You guys started marriage\u2014you had just finished college when you got married?\u2014is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I was very mature, Bob. I had just finished two weeks before, and my wife was a freshman.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I was 19. I had just finished my freshman year at the University of Kentucky.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And no; we did not have to get married\u2014we chose.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You chose to get married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you have a nest egg all saved up that you could\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I had <em>nothing<\/em>; but Dave was on a full scholarship, so he had a little nest egg.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019d been able to save some money?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>A little\u2014very little.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We thought it was a lot more than it really was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>We thought it was <em>so much<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; it was gone pretty quick.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You think about couples today getting married\u2014you know the average amount of debt that a couple begins a marriage with today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>What is it? Do you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I know the student debt number is in the 40s; so if you get two people, who are both bringing student debt into a marriage\u2014and they\u2019re starting with, we\u2019ll say, $80,000 in debt to begin with\u2014and then, if they have consumer debt on top of that or if they borrowed money for a car on top of that, or whatever else they may be bringing in, it can easily get to $100,000 that you\u2019re starting marriage with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh; think of the stress that they carry with that debt.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The reason I\u2019m bringing this up\u2014we\u2019ve got Scott Kedersha joining us this week. Scott, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Scott works at Watermark Church in Dallas\u2014gives leadership to the marriage ministry there and works with engaged couples\/pre-married couples all the time. You guys will have a thousand couples, this year, who will go through classes that you do at Watermark. You said there are\u00a0 non-Christians coming to these classes?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>There are. It\u2019s kind of bizarre. Somebody will invite them to come\u2014it\u2019s not uncommon for somebody to come to the class and say, \u201cSix or seven different people told me to take this class.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A lot of them come to the end of the class and go, \u201cI need Jesus.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>They do; they do. Every class, we hear a story of somebody who comes to know the Lord. Those are some of our <em>favorite<\/em> moments is when we hear about someone\u2014they come for marriage prep and, then, they walk out with their eternity changed. It\u2019s pretty incredible that we get to be a part of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; so talking about money, and the financial reality that couples are facing today, as they think about getting married\u2014you weren\u2019t great with money when you got married; were you? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, is this confession time now? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I thought we ought to cut right to the chase.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Way to go, Bob; wow! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, yes; tell us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; so I was one of those who came into marriage with a whole lot of debt\u2014car debt\/school debt\u2014credit cards: knew how to use them really well\u2014had a lot of stuff\/had a brand-new leased car that was way beyond what I could afford. I was what my friend, Adam, would say\u2014\u201ca $30,000 millionaire,\u201d\u2014coming into the marriage. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tKristen, on the other hand, came into marriage with no debt. She left her home with a ten-page, single-spaced document, from her dad, telling her how to run her finances.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>So we could not\u2014the way I say it in the book is\u2014she came into marriage with her stuff together; I just came in with a bunch of stuff. [Laughter] We had some <em>significant<\/em> challenges to work through when it comes to money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you know that, going in, or did you learn that after you got married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>No; we knew, coming in. She knew she inherited a lot of baggage with me, and she knew this was part of the baggage. I <em>knew<\/em> it wasn\u2019t right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Did her dad know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>He did; oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>How\u2019d that go?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Somehow, he said, \u201cYes.\u201d I don\u2019t know why. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>He must have liked you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; he did. He did like me; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, how\u2019d you dig out?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>We just tried to make good, wise financial decisions. The good thing\u2014it\u2019s kind of been a gift\u2014we\u2019ve never lived as a double-income family. We\u2019ve never been a DINK [double income\/no kids]; because I\u2019ve been in seminary, or we had our kids and Kristen stayed home. We\u2019ve never had a ton of money; we\u2019ve always learned how to live with a good stewardship mentality. We\u2019re thankful for that. We\u2019ve never had this responsibility of stewarding a ton of money, together, as a couple. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we\u2019ve never missed a meal; we have cars that work and a great home; but we\u2019ve always just tried to be really careful, knowing that this is not our money\u2014this is God\u2019s money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, you had to have a mindset shift, in yourself, from being a $30,000 millionaire to where\u2014now, that you\u2019re getting married\u2014you go, \u201cI can\u2019t keep living like this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly right. A lot of those decisions I made either as a nonbeliever or as a brand-new believer; so, you know, for 24 years, everything I had was <em>mine<\/em>. If I made money it was mine\u2014it was to do whatever I wanted. I needed that radical shift to say, \u201cThis is not my stuff and my money; this is resources God has entrusted to me.\u201d That radically changed the way I viewed marriage\u2014the way that we\u2019ve worked through our differences together, as a couple, when it came to finances.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, the money issues that couples may have coming into marriage: \u201cHow much debt do we have?\u201d\u2014different philosophies\u2014and then, \u201cDo we even know how to do a budget and how to exercise wise stewardship?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re sitting down with a couple today and they would say: \u201cWe love each other; we\u2019re committed to Christ; we\u2019re on the same page. We have $80,000 in debt, but we want to dig our way out,\u201d should they wait to get married until they\u2019re halfway there? Do they get married and start working on it together? What\u2019s your recommendation on it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>It depends; right. I hate that answer, but that\u2019s the right one; because every couple\u2019s going to be a little bit different. If wise counsel would say, \u201cYou should get married,\u201d then work on it together\u2014that\u2019s part of a oneness mindset\u2014is that <em>his<\/em> debt becomes her debt; <em>her<\/em> assets become his assets. That\u2019s what it means when we\u2019re <em>one<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we\u2019re going to be married down the road, and that\u2019s all going to happen down the road anyway, why would we wait to deal with our debt? That\u2019s almost like saying, \u201cI\u2019m not going to give anything\u2014I\u2019m not going to give any time or resources, because I have debt.\u201d Our first fruits are to go to the Lord. I might not be able to give as much as I want, when I\u2019m in a massive amount of debt, but that doesn\u2019t excuse me from giving of time and resources to the Lord. So, get married; work on it together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You can dig out from an $80,000 pile, but it may take five years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; it might take some time. That means you can\u2019t eat out with all your friends. When they go out for a nice dinner, and they\u2019re all getting nice entrees, you might just have to share one plate. It might mean that you don\u2019t get a brand-new car every year. Guess what?\u2014you\u2019re going to be okay; you\u2019re going to survive. It means you might rent an apartment instead of buying a home. I know <em>everyone<\/em> is buying a home; so you just are going to say: \u201cWe\u2019re going to be militant and address this and deal with it. We\u2019re not going to live like everyone else.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And if you can\u2019t come to agreement on these things, as you deal with couples, is that a red flag if you can\u2019t get on the same page?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>You know, if you look at divorce proceedings, inability to resolve conflict and financial issues <em>always<\/em> show up towards the top of that list. You have to agree that: \u201cWe\u2019re going to be aligned on this\u201d; if not, you\u2019re going to have a <em>mess<\/em> of problems. You\u2019re going to be a dumpster fire for the rest of your marriage. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Here it is again\u2014the dumpster fire! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I remember talking to a couple, who\u2014they were maybe 20 years into their marriage. They were also $25,000 in debt. That was a <em>huge<\/em> burden for the wife, who felt the pressure of that. Here\u2019s what I remember her saying\u2014she said, \u201cWe were at church last week; and somebody came to church, and they were talking about this great work that God is doing in the Middle East and all of this.\u201d She said, \u201cMy husband writes a $100 check to support this work, and we\u2019re $25,000 in debt!\u201d She said, \u201cI almost went ballistic!\u201d He says: \u201cThis is the kingdom. We have to be investing in this!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen couples have that kind of a <em>different<\/em> perspective on things, how do they work through that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; so one: \u201cWho\u2019s wrong there?\u201d\u2014is it the person who is more generous and gave?\u2014or the person who acted without communicating with their spouse? There\u2019s a good middle ground there\u2014where, if they just communicated about those things; get on the same page\/have the right priorities\u2014that\u2019s a win-win\u2014instead of acting in isolation <em>or<\/em> being maybe a little too tight-fisted with money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s a way there\u2014nobody\u2019s right or wrong\u2014but they have to communicate about <em>how<\/em> they\u2019re going to view their finances and what their priorities are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do they need to, I don\u2019t know, sit down with Dave Ramsey?\u2014or do couples need some financial coaching before they say, \u201cI do,\u201d?\u2014and is there something that ought to break them up if they\u2019re not on the same page, financially?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>One of the things I do in the book is say, \u201cThere are probably five or six main conversations you need to have about money before you get married.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; I have these questions listed right here, and they\u2019re good. There are six of them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; what are they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>They\u2019re 1: \u201cWhat\u2019s your financial picture?\u201d; \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t2: \u201cWhat debt do you have?\u201d;\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t3: \u201cWhere does your money go?\u201d;\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t4: \u201cWhat\u2019s your family history with money?\u201d;\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t5: \u201cWhat\u2019s your personal history with money?\u201d;\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t6: \u201cDo you view yourself as an owner or a steward?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose are good questions, and are those helpful questions for couples to ask before they get married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>You know, the problem is\u2014so many couples think they can\u2019t talk about money. Married couples are the same way\u2014they\u2019re like: \u201cWe can\u2019t talk about\u2014we\u2019re not going to talk about money and sex. Those are the two things we <em>can\u2019t<\/em> talk about.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut they\u2019re so closely <em>connected<\/em> with our relationship with the Lord and with each other, and we have to talk about these things; so don\u2019t wait until you\u2019re married before you talk about money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese are not the just six questions\u2014these are not the only six questions you\u2019re going to ask; but at a minimum, you have to see, \u201cAre we aligned, moving forward?\u201d You don\u2019t want that to be a big surprise <em>after<\/em> you say, \u201cI do\u201d; so talk about it before you get married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, since you brought up intimacy\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, Bob; I was going to go to the same place! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Of course you guys were!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How many couples are starting marriage today with a suitcase full of past history, with one another or with others, that\u2019s <em>never<\/em> been addressed?\u2014and that\u2019s something they\u2019re bringing into marriage that\u2019s going to have a significant impact on what their intimacy looks like, going forward.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>This is <em>such<\/em> an important conversation for couples to have. To answer your first question: \u201cHow many come in with baggage?\u201d\u2014100 percent\u2014so whether it\u2019s my own baggage with pornography, or crossing boundaries, or lust, or maybe one or both have been sexually-abused and you\u2019re bringing that into marriage\u2014you know, it\u2019s one out of every three or four women have been abused; one out of every five or six guys have been abused. An increasingly high percentage of women are looking at pornography; it\u2019s not just a guy\u2019s issue. We all struggle with lust to some degree. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is such an <em>important<\/em> thing to who we are. We have to learn how to communicate it beforehand\u2014so setting boundaries; being aligned on what we expect, going into marriage. You\u2019ll figure out the marriage stuff when you get there. So many couples think: \u201cWe have to test-drive it and see if it works.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>\u201cIs everything going to be compatible?\u201d This is such an important area for you just to trust God\u2014to say: This is His design\u2014He loves you. He is trying to set you free; He\u2019s not trying to rip you off.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How much of past history needs to be discussed?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>This is always the hardest question for me to answer, partly because every couple wants to handle it differently. This is one conversation where\u2014I\u2019ll tell you how we did\u2014for me and Kristen. We sat down before I proposed. I wanted her to <em>know<\/em> about my past\u2014I wanted her to know who I was with, what boundaries I had crossed, the things that I did that I was ashamed of. My body was going to become hers\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t1 Corinthians 7\u2014after we said, \u201cI do\u201d; so I wanted her to know what she was getting. I wanted her to know where my present struggles were and how I was getting help in those areas. We sat down; I shared those things with her\/asked for her forgiveness; we cried. It was such a trust-building conversation; because I wasn\u2019t hiding anything, going into marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo much of this <em>defines<\/em> us\/becomes\u2014it\u2019s guilt and shame\u2014but \u201cIt was for freedom that Christ has set us free.\u201d That doesn\u2019t give me license to go do whatever I want, under the sun; but it reminds me that I\u2019m not defined by my sexual sin. You need to have a really good, healthy conversation with one another before either getting engaged\/before you get married; so you know where the other person has been and kind of what their past is, sexually.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What if your intended\/your fianc\u00e9e says: \u201cI don\u2019t want to know. I just don\u2019t want to talk about it\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>One, I\u2019d want to know, \u201cWhy is that?\u201d I have a very good friend who\u2014that\u2019s what she said to her husband\u2014she said: \u201cYou are a changed man. You love Jesus; that stuff doesn\u2019t define you. I don\u2019t need to know.\u201d What I appreciate about that is\u2014she\u2019s not letting that sin define her husband. At the same time, she doesn\u2019t have the right, down the road, to come back and say, \u201cHey, why didn\u2019t you tell me about \u2018X\u2019<em>, <\/em>\u2018Y,\u2019 and \u2018Z\u2019?\u201d when he gave her the opportunity to do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Do you think, after a couple\u2019s married, this conversation is something important to have, if they never did it before they were married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; that\u2019s another one where couples are so afraid to talk to one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right; I\u2019ve seen that, too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; we don\u2019t realize we can and should talk about intimacy. In your book, you do such a great job, I think, of laying out conversations couples need to have with each other. Instead of being shy or timid about it, we have to realize this is a <em>great<\/em> gift that God has given us. We can and should talk about it with our spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe can even talk about it in the context of community; so we\u2019re talking, as married couples. That doesn\u2019t mean we\u2019re bragging about the positions we did, or the number of times, or anything like that; but we\u2019re challenging each other to \u201cPursue your spouse.\u201d A group of wives can say, \u201cHey, when was the last time that you sexually pursued your spouse?\u201d or guys can challenge each other, \u201cWhen\u2019s the last time you pursued your spouse, romantically or sexually?\u201d We force it out of our marriage and our conversation when it really needs to be something we talk about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I want to encourage listeners\u2014there\u2019s a podcast on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. We did an interview with Heather Jamison, who wrote a book called <em>Restoring Intimacy<\/em>. Here\u2019s what stood out for me in that interview. She and her then-boyfriend\u2014he\u2019d gone to college; she was still a senior in high school\u2014she went up to visit him at college one weekend. They had sex while they were together. She got pregnant; they got married. They both loved Christ; they both wanted to go to the mission field; but the first five years of their marriage, as I remember it, were horrible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPart of the breakthrough for them was looking and saying: \u201cYou know what? We <em>never<\/em> confessed and repented of this sin that had been part of our dating relationship. We kind of acknowledged it; we were sorry that it had happened. It was a mess; we didn\u2019t like it; we felt bad about it; but what we never did was say: \u2018This was a sin before God,\u2019 and repented before God and said, \u2018Lord, we acknowledge that this was wrong.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat failure to do that had put a wedge between the two of them, to where their marital intimacy in the first five years was <em>terrible<\/em> because of the scars and the memories that had never been addressed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s important. Scott, when you said that you apologized\/you repented. I don\u2019t think a lot of couples think to do that after they\u2019ve been married\u2014even sharing your story\u2014not the <em>details<\/em> or the minute details of what happened\u2014but to say: \u201cThis is what I\u2019ve been through. This is what\u2019s happened to me,\u201d even if it\u2019s sexual abuse; or to even say, \u201cThis is the baggage I\u2019m carrying in, and I\u2019m sorry. I\u2019m sorry that this is affecting us\u201d; because it does affect you, every day in a marriage, when it hasn\u2019t been dealt with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019d love you to talk a little bit about the effects; because I think there\u2019s someone listening that\u2019s thinking: \u201cThis is not that big a deal. I\u2019m in love with him,\u201d \u201c\u2026I\u2019m in love with her. We love Jesus. Come on\u2014seriously?!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cWe\u2019re going to be married soon, anyway.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; \u201cJust don\u2019t overdo this thing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob just alluded to some effects in marriage, and there are others. You say you have a lot of unchurched people come to your premarital classes; what do you tell them to convince them this really is very, very important?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>One is: \u201cComparison is <em>such<\/em> a danger.\u201d One, in a way, that maybe a pre-married couple can\u2019t really fathom for the future; but one of the <em>biggest<\/em> dangers of pornography is that it creates\u2014in our mind, and in our head, and in our visuals\u2014of what somebody should or shouldn\u2019t look like, what they\u2019re going to be like in bed, how they\u2019re going to respond\u2014all of these things create expectations for marriage. I need to deal with those; I need to cut those off\u2014ask God to change me\/take those thoughts captive\u2014so that those don\u2019t become something or someone I\u2019m comparing my spouse to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecond, it\u2019s not just comparing to porn; it\u2019s comparing to people I\u2019ve been with in the past. I have asked God, so many times, for my children to not have the same story I do\u2014they don\u2019t have to come into marriage with the baggage that their dad brought into marriage. God has done an amazing work in my life, and I\u2019m thankful. Things are <em>great<\/em> between me and Kristen, physically\u2014that is a <em>gift<\/em> from God. We don\u2019t deserve it and have not earned it because of the things that I had done; that\u2019s just been a gift from the Lord. I want my kids to not have to worry about that comparison or, you know, whatever their spouse is like compared to somebody they were with in the past.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>One of the things I\u2019ve found very interesting in your book\u2014and again, I won\u2019t walk through it\u2014but when you talked to couples that are saying, \u201cI do want to keep God\u2019s standard,\u201d\u2014man, you walk through some boundaries that are like, \u201cWow!\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t open-mouth or tongue-kiss.\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cWhoa! He\u2019s going there,\u201d\u2014you know, you walk through this whole thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI also think it\u2019s very, very helpful for couples to understand that\u2014and now I understand it\u2019s coming from a wound that you\u2019ve experienced that you\u2019ve seen God give grace to\u2014but it\u2019s a <em>gift<\/em> to others to say, \u201cYou don\u2019t have to have the same experience I had.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and coming from the wisdom of Scripture that says, \u201cDo not arouse or awaken love before its time.\u201d Don\u2019t rev the engine, you know, if you\u2019re not going to put the car in drive here, pretty quickly; right? [Laughter] You like that? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, even for Dave\u2014he did\u2014you were going to do your master\u2019s thesis in seminary, which is interesting\u2014do you want to share that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I\u2019ll just keep it short. I interviewed couples and asked them one question\u2014and these were couples in health clubs\u2014I said, \u201cHow many of you were active, sexually, before you got married?\u201d Some were Christians; some weren\u2019t. Guess what the answer was?\u2014100 percent. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Oh, wow; wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>This was in the \u201980s. Then, all I tried to do is say: \u201cOkay; tell me the positive results and effects on your marriage from doing that; tell me the negatives.\u201d Again, I\u2019m not talking to mostly church people; I\u2019m talking to mostly unchurched people. I got <em>none<\/em>\/zero positives; only negatives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was like, \u201cOh my goodness; there\u2019s a reason God says, \u2018Abstain.\u2019\u201d He\u2019s trying to give us the best. He\u2019s trying to protect us. We don\u2019t always understand that, but that is His plan: \u201cI want to give you the <em>greatest<\/em> sex life you\u2019ve ever experienced in your marriage,\u201d and there are ways to ensure that. One of them is to be careful before\u2014abstain.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sounds to me like couples need to have a lot of conversations\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>They do! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014about some serious things before they get married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Really!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; I mean, this could take awhile; but that\u2019s okay\u2014you have some time. It\u2019s important to have these conversations and to build trust; and to build healthy communication; and to not go into marriage, and wake up one day, and go: \u201cOh wait; what?!\u2014really?! We didn\u2019t talk about that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, God\u2019s grace can get poured out on those situations, where you go, \u201cI didn\u2019t know that,\u201d\u2014right?\u2014but you\u2019re a lot better off if you\u2019re going in with eyes, wide open, than if you\u2019re going in with\u2014what do we say?\u2014that \u201cLove is blind, but marriage is an eye-opener\u201d; right? Doesn\u2019t it work that way?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, let\u2019s have the engaged period be the eye-opener, where you get some of these things out on the table; so you walk in and go: \u201cI\u2019m not surprised. I knew that, and I still love you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tScott, thanks for being with us. Thanks for writing this book, and thanks for the great work you\u2019re doing at Watermark.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; good to have you here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, let me let our listeners know\u2014if you\u2019d like a copy of the book, <em>Ready or Knot?<\/em>, we\u2019re making that available, this week, to any listener who will make a donation to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. What we do\u2014being on your local radio station; making this program available as a podcast, as a download, on your phone, on the app, on your smart speaker\/however you choose to listen\u2014the cost of producing and syndicating this program, maintaining the website\/all that we do\u2014that cost is borne by listeners, like you, who say, \u201cThis is important for me\u2014for my family, for our community, for others\u2014to hear practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, again, if you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d love to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you the book, <em>Ready or Knot?<\/em>, that outlines the 12 conversations couples ought to be having before they get married. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to donate online, or call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can donate by calling 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have David Robbins, the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, in the studio with us today. You\u2019ve done some premarital counseling with couples over the years; haven\u2019t you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David: <\/strong>Yes; Meg and I <em>love<\/em> doing that. I mean, it\u2019s such a formative time in people\u2019s lives. As we\u2019ve done pre-marriage counseling, I often quote a friend of mine, who said, \u201cYou have a better chance of marrying a unicorn than you do a soulmate.\u201d [Laughter] But soulmates do exist!\u2014they are built over time\u2014and then, as they\u2019ve done pre-marriage counseling and lots of counseling, they said, \u201cUsually, it\u2019s in the second decade of marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cthat you find your soulmate.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cthat people really find that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, Scott said, during the series, oftentimes, married people in the church aren\u2019t casting a compelling vision of marriage to the next generation. The next generation <em>needs<\/em> and they <em>want<\/em> models and a vision of what marriage could be. They <em>need<\/em> to hang out with couples, like many of you who are listening, who are investing in your marriage\/who have done so over time. <em>You<\/em> have become soulmates\u2014you\u2019re continuing to pursue it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI listen to this series and simply want to charge married couples to take a step of faith and invest in young couples\u2014who are seriously dating, engaged, or newly-married\u2014that come to your mind while you\u2019ve been listening to this series. Be the couple that the next generation longs to hang out with because they learn from it in a life-on-life way. <em>You<\/em> can be such a model and mentor to people in need.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and we want to help you with resources and tools to equip you to do that, whether it\u2019s things like the <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> video series, or Scott\u2019s book, or the <em>Preparing for Marriage<\/em> series that FamilyLife\u2019s put together. Again, we want to be an ally with you on that. Thank you, David, for that charge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear about the things that separate healthy, strong, vibrant, driving marriages and families from families that aren\u2019t doing as well. Pastor Bryan Carter lists for us some of the habits found in healthy marriages and families, and we\u2019ll hear from him tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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Kedersha talks about financial differences a man and a woman bring into a marriage. He explains to Dave and Ann Wilson why he encourages couples considering marriage to ask some hard financial questions.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-07-17.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How open and transparent should couples be with each other as they\u2019re thinking about marriage, especially as it relates to their past? Well, here\u2019s how pastor Scott Kedersha handled this with the woman who would become his wife.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>We sat down before I proposed, and I wanted her to <em>know<\/em> about my past. I wanted her to know what boundaries I had crossed, the things that I did that I was ashamed of. My body was going to become hers\u20141 Corinthians 7\u2014after we say, \u201cI do\u201d; so I wanted her to know what she was getting. I wanted her to know where my present struggles were and how I was getting help in those areas. We sat down; I shared those things with her\/asked for her forgiveness; we cried. It was such a trust-building conversation; because I wasn\u2019t hiding anything, going into marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, July 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. What kinds of conversations should couples be having before they say, \u201cI do\u201d? We\u2019re going to talk about that today with Scott Kedersha. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You guys started marriage\u2014you had just finished college when you got married?\u2014is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I was very mature, Bob. I had just finished two weeks before, and my wife was a freshman.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I was 19. I had just finished my freshman year at the University of Kentucky.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And no; we did not have to get married\u2014we chose.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You chose to get married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you have a nest egg all saved up that you could\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I had <em>nothing<\/em>; but Dave was on a full scholarship, so he had a little nest egg.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019d been able to save some money?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>A little\u2014very little.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We thought it was a lot more than it really was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>We thought it was <em>so much<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; it was gone pretty quick.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You think about couples today getting married\u2014you know the average amount of debt that a couple begins a marriage with today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>What is it? Do you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I know the student debt number is in the 40s; so if you get two people, who are both bringing student debt into a marriage\u2014and they\u2019re starting with, we\u2019ll say, $80,000 in debt to begin with\u2014and then, if they have consumer debt on top of that or if they borrowed money for a car on top of that, or whatever else they may be bringing in, it can easily get to $100,000 that you\u2019re starting marriage with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh; think of the stress that they carry with that debt.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The reason I\u2019m bringing this up\u2014we\u2019ve got Scott Kedersha joining us this week. Scott, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Scott works at Watermark Church in Dallas\u2014gives leadership to the marriage ministry there and works with engaged couples\/pre-married couples all the time. You guys will have a thousand couples, this year, who will go through classes that you do at Watermark. You said there are\u00a0 non-Christians coming to these classes?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>There are. It\u2019s kind of bizarre. Somebody will invite them to come\u2014it\u2019s not uncommon for somebody to come to the class and say, \u201cSix or seven different people told me to take this class.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A lot of them come to the end of the class and go, \u201cI need Jesus.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>They do; they do. Every class, we hear a story of somebody who comes to know the Lord. Those are some of our <em>favorite<\/em> moments is when we hear about someone\u2014they come for marriage prep and, then, they walk out with their eternity changed. It\u2019s pretty incredible that we get to be a part of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; so talking about money, and the financial reality that couples are facing today, as they think about getting married\u2014you weren\u2019t great with money when you got married; were you? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, is this confession time now? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I thought we ought to cut right to the chase.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Way to go, Bob; wow! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, yes; tell us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; so I was one of those who came into marriage with a whole lot of debt\u2014car debt\/school debt\u2014credit cards: knew how to use them really well\u2014had a lot of stuff\/had a brand-new leased car that was way beyond what I could afford. I was what my friend, Adam, would say\u2014\u201ca $30,000 millionaire,\u201d\u2014coming into the marriage. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tKristen, on the other hand, came into marriage with no debt. She left her home with a ten-page, single-spaced document, from her dad, telling her how to run her finances.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>So we could not\u2014the way I say it in the book is\u2014she came into marriage with her stuff together; I just came in with a bunch of stuff. [Laughter] We had some <em>significant<\/em> challenges to work through when it comes to money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you know that, going in, or did you learn that after you got married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>No; we knew, coming in. She knew she inherited a lot of baggage with me, and she knew this was part of the baggage. I <em>knew<\/em> it wasn\u2019t right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Did her dad know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>He did; oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>How\u2019d that go?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Somehow, he said, \u201cYes.\u201d I don\u2019t know why. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>He must have liked you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; he did. He did like me; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, how\u2019d you dig out?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>We just tried to make good, wise financial decisions. The good thing\u2014it\u2019s kind of been a gift\u2014we\u2019ve never lived as a double-income family. We\u2019ve never been a DINK [double income\/no kids]; because I\u2019ve been in seminary, or we had our kids and Kristen stayed home. We\u2019ve never had a ton of money; we\u2019ve always learned how to live with a good stewardship mentality. We\u2019re thankful for that. We\u2019ve never had this responsibility of stewarding a ton of money, together, as a couple. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we\u2019ve never missed a meal; we have cars that work and a great home; but we\u2019ve always just tried to be really careful, knowing that this is not our money\u2014this is God\u2019s money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, you had to have a mindset shift, in yourself, from being a $30,000 millionaire to where\u2014now, that you\u2019re getting married\u2014you go, \u201cI can\u2019t keep living like this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly right. A lot of those decisions I made either as a nonbeliever or as a brand-new believer; so, you know, for 24 years, everything I had was <em>mine<\/em>. If I made money it was mine\u2014it was to do whatever I wanted. I needed that radical shift to say, \u201cThis is not my stuff and my money; this is resources God has entrusted to me.\u201d That radically changed the way I viewed marriage\u2014the way that we\u2019ve worked through our differences together, as a couple, when it came to finances.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, the money issues that couples may have coming into marriage: \u201cHow much debt do we have?\u201d\u2014different philosophies\u2014and then, \u201cDo we even know how to do a budget and how to exercise wise stewardship?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re sitting down with a couple today and they would say: \u201cWe love each other; we\u2019re committed to Christ; we\u2019re on the same page. We have $80,000 in debt, but we want to dig our way out,\u201d should they wait to get married until they\u2019re halfway there? Do they get married and start working on it together? What\u2019s your recommendation on it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>It depends; right. I hate that answer, but that\u2019s the right one; because every couple\u2019s going to be a little bit different. If wise counsel would say, \u201cYou should get married,\u201d then work on it together\u2014that\u2019s part of a oneness mindset\u2014is that <em>his<\/em> debt becomes her debt; <em>her<\/em> assets become his assets. That\u2019s what it means when we\u2019re <em>one<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we\u2019re going to be married down the road, and that\u2019s all going to happen down the road anyway, why would we wait to deal with our debt? That\u2019s almost like saying, \u201cI\u2019m not going to give anything\u2014I\u2019m not going to give any time or resources, because I have debt.\u201d Our first fruits are to go to the Lord. I might not be able to give as much as I want, when I\u2019m in a massive amount of debt, but that doesn\u2019t excuse me from giving of time and resources to the Lord. So, get married; work on it together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You can dig out from an $80,000 pile, but it may take five years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; it might take some time. That means you can\u2019t eat out with all your friends. When they go out for a nice dinner, and they\u2019re all getting nice entrees, you might just have to share one plate. It might mean that you don\u2019t get a brand-new car every year. Guess what?\u2014you\u2019re going to be okay; you\u2019re going to survive. It means you might rent an apartment instead of buying a home. I know <em>everyone<\/em> is buying a home; so you just are going to say: \u201cWe\u2019re going to be militant and address this and deal with it. We\u2019re not going to live like everyone else.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And if you can\u2019t come to agreement on these things, as you deal with couples, is that a red flag if you can\u2019t get on the same page?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>You know, if you look at divorce proceedings, inability to resolve conflict and financial issues <em>always<\/em> show up towards the top of that list. You have to agree that: \u201cWe\u2019re going to be aligned on this\u201d; if not, you\u2019re going to have a <em>mess<\/em> of problems. You\u2019re going to be a dumpster fire for the rest of your marriage. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Here it is again\u2014the dumpster fire! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I remember talking to a couple, who\u2014they were maybe 20 years into their marriage. They were also $25,000 in debt. That was a <em>huge<\/em> burden for the wife, who felt the pressure of that. Here\u2019s what I remember her saying\u2014she said, \u201cWe were at church last week; and somebody came to church, and they were talking about this great work that God is doing in the Middle East and all of this.\u201d She said, \u201cMy husband writes a $100 check to support this work, and we\u2019re $25,000 in debt!\u201d She said, \u201cI almost went ballistic!\u201d He says: \u201cThis is the kingdom. We have to be investing in this!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen couples have that kind of a <em>different<\/em> perspective on things, how do they work through that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; so one: \u201cWho\u2019s wrong there?\u201d\u2014is it the person who is more generous and gave?\u2014or the person who acted without communicating with their spouse? There\u2019s a good middle ground there\u2014where, if they just communicated about those things; get on the same page\/have the right priorities\u2014that\u2019s a win-win\u2014instead of acting in isolation <em>or<\/em> being maybe a little too tight-fisted with money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s a way there\u2014nobody\u2019s right or wrong\u2014but they have to communicate about <em>how<\/em> they\u2019re going to view their finances and what their priorities are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do they need to, I don\u2019t know, sit down with Dave Ramsey?\u2014or do couples need some financial coaching before they say, \u201cI do,\u201d?\u2014and is there something that ought to break them up if they\u2019re not on the same page, financially?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>One of the things I do in the book is say, \u201cThere are probably five or six main conversations you need to have about money before you get married.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; I have these questions listed right here, and they\u2019re good. There are six of them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; what are they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>They\u2019re 1: \u201cWhat\u2019s your financial picture?\u201d; \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t2: \u201cWhat debt do you have?\u201d;\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t3: \u201cWhere does your money go?\u201d;\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t4: \u201cWhat\u2019s your family history with money?\u201d;\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t5: \u201cWhat\u2019s your personal history with money?\u201d;\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t6: \u201cDo you view yourself as an owner or a steward?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose are good questions, and are those helpful questions for couples to ask before they get married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>You know, the problem is\u2014so many couples think they can\u2019t talk about money. Married couples are the same way\u2014they\u2019re like: \u201cWe can\u2019t talk about\u2014we\u2019re not going to talk about money and sex. Those are the two things we <em>can\u2019t<\/em> talk about.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut they\u2019re so closely <em>connected<\/em> with our relationship with the Lord and with each other, and we have to talk about these things; so don\u2019t wait until you\u2019re married before you talk about money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese are not the just six questions\u2014these are not the only six questions you\u2019re going to ask; but at a minimum, you have to see, \u201cAre we aligned, moving forward?\u201d You don\u2019t want that to be a big surprise <em>after<\/em> you say, \u201cI do\u201d; so talk about it before you get married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, since you brought up intimacy\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, Bob; I was going to go to the same place! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Of course you guys were!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How many couples are starting marriage today with a suitcase full of past history, with one another or with others, that\u2019s <em>never<\/em> been addressed?\u2014and that\u2019s something they\u2019re bringing into marriage that\u2019s going to have a significant impact on what their intimacy looks like, going forward.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>This is <em>such<\/em> an important conversation for couples to have. To answer your first question: \u201cHow many come in with baggage?\u201d\u2014100 percent\u2014so whether it\u2019s my own baggage with pornography, or crossing boundaries, or lust, or maybe one or both have been sexually-abused and you\u2019re bringing that into marriage\u2014you know, it\u2019s one out of every three or four women have been abused; one out of every five or six guys have been abused. An increasingly high percentage of women are looking at pornography; it\u2019s not just a guy\u2019s issue. We all struggle with lust to some degree. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is such an <em>important<\/em> thing to who we are. We have to learn how to communicate it beforehand\u2014so setting boundaries; being aligned on what we expect, going into marriage. You\u2019ll figure out the marriage stuff when you get there. So many couples think: \u201cWe have to test-drive it and see if it works.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>\u201cIs everything going to be compatible?\u201d This is such an important area for you just to trust God\u2014to say: This is His design\u2014He loves you. He is trying to set you free; He\u2019s not trying to rip you off.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How much of past history needs to be discussed?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>This is always the hardest question for me to answer, partly because every couple wants to handle it differently. This is one conversation where\u2014I\u2019ll tell you how we did\u2014for me and Kristen. We sat down before I proposed. I wanted her to <em>know<\/em> about my past\u2014I wanted her to know who I was with, what boundaries I had crossed, the things that I did that I was ashamed of. My body was going to become hers\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t1 Corinthians 7\u2014after we said, \u201cI do\u201d; so I wanted her to know what she was getting. I wanted her to know where my present struggles were and how I was getting help in those areas. We sat down; I shared those things with her\/asked for her forgiveness; we cried. It was such a trust-building conversation; because I wasn\u2019t hiding anything, going into marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo much of this <em>defines<\/em> us\/becomes\u2014it\u2019s guilt and shame\u2014but \u201cIt was for freedom that Christ has set us free.\u201d That doesn\u2019t give me license to go do whatever I want, under the sun; but it reminds me that I\u2019m not defined by my sexual sin. You need to have a really good, healthy conversation with one another before either getting engaged\/before you get married; so you know where the other person has been and kind of what their past is, sexually.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What if your intended\/your fianc\u00e9e says: \u201cI don\u2019t want to know. I just don\u2019t want to talk about it\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>One, I\u2019d want to know, \u201cWhy is that?\u201d I have a very good friend who\u2014that\u2019s what she said to her husband\u2014she said: \u201cYou are a changed man. You love Jesus; that stuff doesn\u2019t define you. I don\u2019t need to know.\u201d What I appreciate about that is\u2014she\u2019s not letting that sin define her husband. At the same time, she doesn\u2019t have the right, down the road, to come back and say, \u201cHey, why didn\u2019t you tell me about \u2018X\u2019<em>, <\/em>\u2018Y,\u2019 and \u2018Z\u2019?\u201d when he gave her the opportunity to do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Do you think, after a couple\u2019s married, this conversation is something important to have, if they never did it before they were married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; that\u2019s another one where couples are so afraid to talk to one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right; I\u2019ve seen that, too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; we don\u2019t realize we can and should talk about intimacy. In your book, you do such a great job, I think, of laying out conversations couples need to have with each other. Instead of being shy or timid about it, we have to realize this is a <em>great<\/em> gift that God has given us. We can and should talk about it with our spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe can even talk about it in the context of community; so we\u2019re talking, as married couples. That doesn\u2019t mean we\u2019re bragging about the positions we did, or the number of times, or anything like that; but we\u2019re challenging each other to \u201cPursue your spouse.\u201d A group of wives can say, \u201cHey, when was the last time that you sexually pursued your spouse?\u201d or guys can challenge each other, \u201cWhen\u2019s the last time you pursued your spouse, romantically or sexually?\u201d We force it out of our marriage and our conversation when it really needs to be something we talk about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I want to encourage listeners\u2014there\u2019s a podcast on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. We did an interview with Heather Jamison, who wrote a book called <em>Restoring Intimacy<\/em>. Here\u2019s what stood out for me in that interview. She and her then-boyfriend\u2014he\u2019d gone to college; she was still a senior in high school\u2014she went up to visit him at college one weekend. They had sex while they were together. She got pregnant; they got married. They both loved Christ; they both wanted to go to the mission field; but the first five years of their marriage, as I remember it, were horrible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPart of the breakthrough for them was looking and saying: \u201cYou know what? We <em>never<\/em> confessed and repented of this sin that had been part of our dating relationship. We kind of acknowledged it; we were sorry that it had happened. It was a mess; we didn\u2019t like it; we felt bad about it; but what we never did was say: \u2018This was a sin before God,\u2019 and repented before God and said, \u2018Lord, we acknowledge that this was wrong.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat failure to do that had put a wedge between the two of them, to where their marital intimacy in the first five years was <em>terrible<\/em> because of the scars and the memories that had never been addressed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s important. Scott, when you said that you apologized\/you repented. I don\u2019t think a lot of couples think to do that after they\u2019ve been married\u2014even sharing your story\u2014not the <em>details<\/em> or the minute details of what happened\u2014but to say: \u201cThis is what I\u2019ve been through. This is what\u2019s happened to me,\u201d even if it\u2019s sexual abuse; or to even say, \u201cThis is the baggage I\u2019m carrying in, and I\u2019m sorry. I\u2019m sorry that this is affecting us\u201d; because it does affect you, every day in a marriage, when it hasn\u2019t been dealt with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019d love you to talk a little bit about the effects; because I think there\u2019s someone listening that\u2019s thinking: \u201cThis is not that big a deal. I\u2019m in love with him,\u201d \u201c\u2026I\u2019m in love with her. We love Jesus. Come on\u2014seriously?!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cWe\u2019re going to be married soon, anyway.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; \u201cJust don\u2019t overdo this thing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob just alluded to some effects in marriage, and there are others. You say you have a lot of unchurched people come to your premarital classes; what do you tell them to convince them this really is very, very important?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>One is: \u201cComparison is <em>such<\/em> a danger.\u201d One, in a way, that maybe a pre-married couple can\u2019t really fathom for the future; but one of the <em>biggest<\/em> dangers of pornography is that it creates\u2014in our mind, and in our head, and in our visuals\u2014of what somebody should or shouldn\u2019t look like, what they\u2019re going to be like in bed, how they\u2019re going to respond\u2014all of these things create expectations for marriage. I need to deal with those; I need to cut those off\u2014ask God to change me\/take those thoughts captive\u2014so that those don\u2019t become something or someone I\u2019m comparing my spouse to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecond, it\u2019s not just comparing to porn; it\u2019s comparing to people I\u2019ve been with in the past. I have asked God, so many times, for my children to not have the same story I do\u2014they don\u2019t have to come into marriage with the baggage that their dad brought into marriage. God has done an amazing work in my life, and I\u2019m thankful. Things are <em>great<\/em> between me and Kristen, physically\u2014that is a <em>gift<\/em> from God. We don\u2019t deserve it and have not earned it because of the things that I had done; that\u2019s just been a gift from the Lord. I want my kids to not have to worry about that comparison or, you know, whatever their spouse is like compared to somebody they were with in the past.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>One of the things I\u2019ve found very interesting in your book\u2014and again, I won\u2019t walk through it\u2014but when you talked to couples that are saying, \u201cI do want to keep God\u2019s standard,\u201d\u2014man, you walk through some boundaries that are like, \u201cWow!\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t open-mouth or tongue-kiss.\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cWhoa! He\u2019s going there,\u201d\u2014you know, you walk through this whole thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI also think it\u2019s very, very helpful for couples to understand that\u2014and now I understand it\u2019s coming from a wound that you\u2019ve experienced that you\u2019ve seen God give grace to\u2014but it\u2019s a <em>gift<\/em> to others to say, \u201cYou don\u2019t have to have the same experience I had.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and coming from the wisdom of Scripture that says, \u201cDo not arouse or awaken love before its time.\u201d Don\u2019t rev the engine, you know, if you\u2019re not going to put the car in drive here, pretty quickly; right? [Laughter] You like that? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Well, even for Dave\u2014he did\u2014you were going to do your master\u2019s thesis in seminary, which is interesting\u2014do you want to share that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I\u2019ll just keep it short. I interviewed couples and asked them one question\u2014and these were couples in health clubs\u2014I said, \u201cHow many of you were active, sexually, before you got married?\u201d Some were Christians; some weren\u2019t. Guess what the answer was?\u2014100 percent. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Oh, wow; wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>This was in the \u201980s. Then, all I tried to do is say: \u201cOkay; tell me the positive results and effects on your marriage from doing that; tell me the negatives.\u201d Again, I\u2019m not talking to mostly church people; I\u2019m talking to mostly unchurched people. I got <em>none<\/em>\/zero positives; only negatives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was like, \u201cOh my goodness; there\u2019s a reason God says, \u2018Abstain.\u2019\u201d He\u2019s trying to give us the best. He\u2019s trying to protect us. We don\u2019t always understand that, but that is His plan: \u201cI want to give you the <em>greatest<\/em> sex life you\u2019ve ever experienced in your marriage,\u201d and there are ways to ensure that. One of them is to be careful before\u2014abstain.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sounds to me like couples need to have a lot of conversations\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>They do! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014about some serious things before they get married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Really!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; I mean, this could take awhile; but that\u2019s okay\u2014you have some time. It\u2019s important to have these conversations and to build trust; and to build healthy communication; and to not go into marriage, and wake up one day, and go: \u201cOh wait; what?!\u2014really?! We didn\u2019t talk about that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, God\u2019s grace can get poured out on those situations, where you go, \u201cI didn\u2019t know that,\u201d\u2014right?\u2014but you\u2019re a lot better off if you\u2019re going in with eyes, wide open, than if you\u2019re going in with\u2014what do we say?\u2014that \u201cLove is blind, but marriage is an eye-opener\u201d; right? Doesn\u2019t it work that way?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, let\u2019s have the engaged period be the eye-opener, where you get some of these things out on the table; so you walk in and go: \u201cI\u2019m not surprised. I knew that, and I still love you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tScott, thanks for being with us. Thanks for writing this book, and thanks for the great work you\u2019re doing at Watermark.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; good to have you here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, let me let our listeners know\u2014if you\u2019d like a copy of the book, <em>Ready or Knot?<\/em>, we\u2019re making that available, this week, to any listener who will make a donation to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. What we do\u2014being on your local radio station; making this program available as a podcast, as a download, on your phone, on the app, on your smart speaker\/however you choose to listen\u2014the cost of producing and syndicating this program, maintaining the website\/all that we do\u2014that cost is borne by listeners, like you, who say, \u201cThis is important for me\u2014for my family, for our community, for others\u2014to hear practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, again, if you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d love to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you the book, <em>Ready or Knot?<\/em>, that outlines the 12 conversations couples ought to be having before they get married. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to donate online, or call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can donate by calling 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have David Robbins, the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, in the studio with us today. You\u2019ve done some premarital counseling with couples over the years; haven\u2019t you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David: <\/strong>Yes; Meg and I <em>love<\/em> doing that. I mean, it\u2019s such a formative time in people\u2019s lives. As we\u2019ve done pre-marriage counseling, I often quote a friend of mine, who said, \u201cYou have a better chance of marrying a unicorn than you do a soulmate.\u201d [Laughter] But soulmates do exist!\u2014they are built over time\u2014and then, as they\u2019ve done pre-marriage counseling and lots of counseling, they said, \u201cUsually, it\u2019s in the second decade of marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cthat you find your soulmate.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cthat people really find that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, Scott said, during the series, oftentimes, married people in the church aren\u2019t casting a compelling vision of marriage to the next generation. The next generation <em>needs<\/em> and they <em>want<\/em> models and a vision of what marriage could be. They <em>need<\/em> to hang out with couples, like many of you who are listening, who are investing in your marriage\/who have done so over time. <em>You<\/em> have become soulmates\u2014you\u2019re continuing to pursue it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI listen to this series and simply want to charge married couples to take a step of faith and invest in young couples\u2014who are seriously dating, engaged, or newly-married\u2014that come to your mind while you\u2019ve been listening to this series. Be the couple that the next generation longs to hang out with because they learn from it in a life-on-life way. <em>You<\/em> can be such a model and mentor to people in need.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and we want to help you with resources and tools to equip you to do that, whether it\u2019s things like the <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> video series, or Scott\u2019s book, or the <em>Preparing for Marriage<\/em> series that FamilyLife\u2019s put together. Again, we want to be an ally with you on that. Thank you, David, for that charge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear about the things that separate healthy, strong, vibrant, driving marriages and families from families that aren\u2019t doing as well. Pastor Bryan Carter lists for us some of the habits found in healthy marriages and families, and we\u2019ll hear from him tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/305161","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305161"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305161"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305161"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305161"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=305161"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=305161"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=305161"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}