{"id":305139,"date":"2019-07-08T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2019-07-08T10:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/facing-difficulties\/"},"modified":"2019-07-08T06:00:04","modified_gmt":"2019-07-08T10:00:04","slug":"facing-difficulties","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/facing-difficulties\/","title":{"rendered":"Facing Difficulties"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Aaron and Jennifer Smith | Series: Marriage After God | Aaron and Jennifer Smith knew that marriage would have its challenges, but they had no idea the depth of those challenges or how long they would last. The Smiths talk about their early struggles with sexual intimacy and their decision to persevere through the difficulties, even if nothing changed.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tListen to Jennifer Smith&#8217;s &#8220;Unveiled Wife&#8221;\u00a0 interview on FamilyLife Today\u00ae\u00a0from 2016. https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/series\/the-unveiled-wife\/<br \/>\n \tVisit Jennifer Smith&#8217;s website UnveiledWife.com. https:\/\/unveiledwife.com<br \/>\n \tVisit Aaron Smith&#8217;s website HusbandRevolution.com. https:\/\/husbandrevolution.com\/<br \/>\n \tListen to their podcast called &#8220;Marriage After God.&#8221; https:\/\/unveiledwife.com\/marriage-god-podcast\/<br \/>\n \tDownload the Stronger Forever ebook and enter for a chance to go on the FamilyLife&#8217;s Love Like You Mean It\u00ae cruise.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/stronger<br \/>\n \tLearn more about becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Aaron and Jennifer Smith talk about their struggles with intimacy, early in their marriage, and their decision to persevere.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-07-08.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:24:23","filesize":"22.32M","filesize_raw":"23404923","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2901,2844,2088,2831],"tags":[6670],"podcast_series":[8287],"cwp_profile":[9544],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305139","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-husbands","category-pornography","category-romance-and-sex","category-wives","tag-marriage-after-god","podcast_series-marriage-after-god","cwp_profile-aaron-and-jennifer-smith","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305139\/facing-difficulties","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305139\/facing-difficulties","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Rk8Cvwdvza\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/facing-difficulties\/\">Facing Difficulties<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/facing-difficulties\/embed\/#?secret=Rk8Cvwdvza\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Facing Difficulties&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Rk8Cvwdvza\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-07-08.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-07-08.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Aaron Smith says, if you want a marriage that honors God, there\u2019s one key principle you need to keep in front of you at all times.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> We say, \u201cYes,\u201d to God even when our flesh screams, \u201cNo!\u201d\u2014that\u2019s where we\u2019ve got to get to. It\u2019s like, \u201cI want to say, \u2018Yes,\u2019 to God,\u201d and there\u2019s still a joy set before us. The goal is eternity; the goal is seeing what God wants to do in the lives around us. Then, at the end of the day, recognizing that the moment we got out of the way of ourselves\u2014got out of the way of what God was doing\u2014stop looking inward\/stop looking at: \u201cOh, woe is us! We don\u2019t have this\u2026\u201d\u2014we actually start looking at what God was doing.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, July 8<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. Who is setting the primary agenda for your marriage? Is it you?\u2014is it your spouse?\u2014or is it God? We\u2019ll talk with Aaron and Jennifer Smith today. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I\u2019ve heard enough of your story\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014you mean our fairytale? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It <em>is<\/em> a fairytale.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014until the ogre comes. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What? Who\u2019s the ogre? \u201cHoney! Honey! I need you to back me up.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No; <em>you<\/em> are Prince Charming.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There you go.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I know enough of your story to know you started marriage with an understanding that marriage was about more than just <em>your<\/em> happiness. But that had to be kind of a revolutionary thought for <em>you<\/em>, even when you were dating; because most people think marriage is about \u201cwhat I\u2019m going to get out of this deal\u201d; right?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; we learned that, before marriage, by going to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>,where that was probably the first time\u2014don\u2019t you think?\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> <em>Absolutely.<\/em>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014that we heard God has a bigger purpose than just you being happy.\n\nBut I\u2019ve got to be honest\u2014I still thought I\u2019d be happy\u2014[Laughter]\u2014that was a pretty important purpose; then, when I wasn\u2019t, I thought I married the wrong person.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s what happens\u2014we know it in our head; but when we experience marriage and we\u2019re <em>not<\/em> happy, we really do assume that: \u201cThat person I married is really messed up, and it\u2019s their fault.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cThat should be, at least, the baseline; and \u2018We\u2019ll build all this ministry on top of that,\u2019\u201d as opposed to thinking, \u201cGod is the baseline, and happiness gets crafted on top of that.\u201d\n\nWe\u2019ve got a couple joining us today\u2014actually, the wife\u2019s been here with us before; the husband is here as a first-timer\u2014Jennifer and Aaron Smith are with us. Welcome to the program, guys.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Hi, guys.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Thanks for having us.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jennifer was here\u2014what\u2019s it been?\u2014four or five years ago?\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; something like that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I just want to reference, here at the beginning of the program\u2014if folks want to go back and hear the podcast of the conversation with Jennifer, from a few years back\u2014really, an amazing story. Aaron, you wound up being part of it; we called you in the middle of talking with her.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Yes; I was called in; yes. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You called him on the phone?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wait; are you serious?\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Yes; oh yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We wanted to make sure that what Jennifer was saying was the real deal, so we called Aaron to get him to back it up.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That makes me want to listen, Aaron\u2014they really called you.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> They called me, and I\u2019m pretty sure I gave wrong details on the phone. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> We got it all worked out.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> But yes; they told me and interviewed me about some of the stuff that we went through. This is my first time on the show.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The early years of your marriage were challenging. In fact, we\u2019re not going to go deep into that because that\u2019s what we covered last time you were here.\n\nYou guys may not even be aware\u2014Jennifer, for the first three years of marriage, experienced great pain every time the two of you were intimate.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Talk about a wedge issue in marriage. Talk about trying to figure out: \u201cWhat\u2019s the foundation of this marriage?\u201d\u2014when sex and intimacy is pretty much taken off the table for the first three years?\u2014is that right?\n\n<strong>Jennifer and Aaron: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I read that in your recent book, <em>Marriage After God<\/em>. I\u2019m mature enough to know\u2014I don\u2019t want to start the conversation there\u2014but Bob, you went right there! [Laughter] We\u2019re going to start right there. When I read it, I was like, \u201cI do want to know more of that story.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m really interested, too, because\u2014speaking at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> for 30 years\u2014this is very typical, which most people don\u2019t think it is; because most people keep it hidden.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Typical that there\u2019s pain?\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014or typical\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann<\/strong>: \u2014typical that there is pain, and\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014physical pain?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014physical pain, and there\u2019s no one they have to talk to; and they don\u2019t know how to get help.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I remember feeling so embarrassed that I even had to bring it up to a doctor.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Jennifer: <\/strong>It is something that\u2019s very difficult to talk about; but I would say that, if you\u2019re willing to talk about it, there is healing that can be found.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you blogged about you, you, all of a sudden, were hearing from people from all over the world\u2014\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014who were saying, \u201cFinally, somebody is being open about what <em>we\u2019re <\/em>dealing with.\u201d\n\n<strong>Jennifer: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Even when we opened up about it in the beginning\u2014the nurse\/some close friends\u2014pretty much everyone was like, \u201cYou should be fine.\u201d We didn\u2019t open up as much as we should\u2019ve; but the couple times that we did, it reinforced in us that we were the only ones dealing with stuff.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; thanks for being real and bringing some things out into the open\u2014that most people are scared to do\u2014because you\u2019re giving hope to people.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And again, I\u2019ll point people to the podcast. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and listen to about 90 minutes\u2019 worth of conversation on this subject with Jennifer from a few years ago.\n\nWe should tell folks that you are the proud parents of <em>four<\/em> children, so things have worked out; right?\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Things have worked out; yes.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Things have changed; yes. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Today\u2014is that <em>still<\/em> an issue in your marriage?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I would say that it\u2019s different; because having four children\u2014kind of back to back\u2014there were some post-partum issues, and healing there\u2014\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> \u2014and other issues\u2014\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014just other issues.\n\nI would say that our perspective and our heart toward one another, no matter what issue we face now, we just feel stronger together, as a team, because of what we\u2019ve been through in the past\u2014and being able to pursue one another and persist through challenges\u2014knowing that God has a purpose for our marriage.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Aaron, your book, <em>Marriage After God,<\/em> really does get to that core issue I was talking with Dave and Ann about, which is the foundation of a marriage. You\u2019ve recognized that happiness can\u2019t be that foundation; even sexual intimacy can\u2019t be that foundation. When did it dawn on you that \u201cWe\u2019ve got to build on something other than \u2018how we\u2019re doing in marriage\u2019?\u201d\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Going through the difficulties in the beginning of our marriage\u2014everyone has their own version of this story; right?\u2014marriage isn\u2019t easy. We have our perspective and our foundation on things like: \u201cWhat\u2019s going to fulfill me?\u201d \u201cWhat was my expectation of how my wife\u2019s going to serve me or fulfill me?\u201d or \u201c\u2026what we\u2019re going to do, as a couple\u201d\u2014all those things get thrown out pretty quickly.\n\nFor us, it was our sexual intimacy; for others, it\u2019s other things. It got to a point where I\/we had to <em>either<\/em> say: \u201cLord, we\u2019re going to follow You anyway, even if nothing ever changes,\u201d and \u201cWe\u2019re going to allow You to change our hearts. We\u2019re going to allow You to use us and speak into us, and we\u2019re just going to submit,\u201d <em>OR<\/em> \u201cI\u2019m just going to rebel more,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m going to run away,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m going to try and find the things that I think I deserve.\u201d\n\nThat was kind of the culmination leading up to us finding healing in that area\u2014us realizing: \u201cOkay, God; these things that we think hinder us and have stopped us are actually things that you want to use.\u201d It took a surrendering\u2014this was about three-and-a-half-ish\/four years in\u2014of saying: \u201cOkay, Lord; if nothing changes\u2014if I don\u2019t get what I think I deserve, if my wife can never fulfill me in this way, if nothing\u2019s ever the way I expected it to be\u2014I\u2019m going to say: \u2018Yes\u2019 to You anyway. I want what You want.\u201d\n\nHe was pretty much able to convince me of this by reminding me of the story of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. It was Him reminding me of the Scriptures of Jesus praying and pleading with God that the cup of suffering would pass His lips. He asked three times\u2014each time, with that, He says, \u201cThis is what <em>I<\/em> want; but not what I want, but what <em>You <\/em>want, Lord.\u201d He gives us this example.\n\nHe\u2019s like: \u201cIf Jesus can choose My will over His comfort; My will over His <em>not<\/em> experiencing the pain, for His bride\u201d\u2014because that\u2019s essentially what was happening in that moment; He was about to go to the cross because of His bride\u2014\u201cand He did it anyway because it pleased God to do it.\u201d Do I think that I\u2019m owed something more than Jesus is owed? Do I think I have more of a right to my hurt, and my pain, and my discontentment, and my discomfort; do I have more of a right than Christ did?\n\nChrist was obedient. I said, \u201cOkay, Lord.\u201d He humbled me\u2014that\u2019s the only word I can use. I don\u2019t deserve <em>anything<\/em>, and He\u2019s given me <em>everything<\/em>. This thing that I\u2019m going through\u2014that <em>is<\/em> painful, and <em>is<\/em> not comfortable, and <em>is<\/em> not enjoyable\u2014is okay. I can still, actually, be obedient and love my wife as Christ loves the church, giving myself up for her\u2014that was the spiritual shift in my heart.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s radical, especially in our culture\u2014that\u2019s saying: \u201cYou deserve to be happy,\u201d \u201cYou deserve to have your needs met.\u201d This is a radical experience, where some people could be thinking, \u201cSo am I supposed to suffer in my marriage as Jesus did?\u201d\n\nJennifer, what were your thoughts? Did you go along those same lines?\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I think his leadership in taking this revelation that God showed him about Jesus in the Garden helped lead my heart to the same perspective. I\u2019m looking at him, going, \u201cOkay; if <em>you<\/em> can do this, <em>I<\/em> can do this.\u201d It set that example and helped me. Ultimately, we did love each other; and we wanted it to work out.\n\n<strong>Aaron: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> It\u2019s just\u2014we were also crumbling; so we had to make a choice that, even amidst of hard circumstances, we were going to persist together.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me ask you this\u2014when you make that decision: surrender\/submission\u2014I\u2019m listening to that going, \u201cWow; you talk about maturity.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I want to know the backstory of your walk with God.\n\nThat is a crucible so many of us get to, and I\u2019d say a lot <em>don\u2019t <\/em>make that decision\u2014they\u2019re like: \u201cI\u2019m out!\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI <em>want<\/em> happiness; I\u2019m not getting that.\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s interesting\u2014last year, we got to go to Israel for the first time.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Awesome.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There I am in the Garden. Our guide showed us this image that I\u2019ll never forget. When Jesus is praying: \u201cThy will be done; not My will. I want Your will over My will,\u201d he said, \u201cHe\u2019s probably looking at the gate and seeing the men coming to arrest Him.\u201d He\u2019s seeing that as He\u2019s praying it, <em>knowing<\/em> that the future\u2019s <em>that<\/em>, and \u201cI\u2019m choosing <em>that<\/em> even though I can see it.\u201d\n\nYou\u2019re almost in the same situation\u2014you\u2019re <em>not<\/em> seeing healing going to instantly happen. After you pray that\/after you surrender, what happened? Did it all like: \u201cOh, now we\u2019re good!\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Now, you\u2019re living the fairytale?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Or was it still a struggle?\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> It <em>was<\/em> still a struggle. What <em>changed<\/em> was our perspective. It became more of a heavenly-focused perspective\/more of a biblically-focused perspective. It wasn\u2019t contingent on our circumstances any longer. It was contingent on who we were looking at and who we were yielded to. It was saying, \u201cThe things that seem like a crucible and seem big\u2014they instantly shrink in size in comparison to who God is and what He\u2019s done\u2014once you yield your heart in that way.\n\nThat thing of: \u201cI\u2019m not <em>happy<\/em>,\u201d\u2014when you immediately focus on what Christ had done, and what that means for me, and what that now allows me to do and invites me to do for Him\u2014all those other things shrink. It didn\u2019t make them perfect immediately; it didn\u2019t fix everything right away. I was able to approach my wife in a <em>vastly<\/em> different way; because my perspective was no longer on, \u201cWell, she\u2019s not giving me what I deserve.\u201d\n\nNow, I\u2019m looking at her as a sister in Christ. I\u2019m looking at her as the bride that God has gifted to me. I\u2019m looking at her as the woman\/the ministry\u2014the person that God has given to me to pour into\u2014to encourage, to love on, to sacrifice for.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Instead of being consumed with thoughts of divorce or separation, thinking that was our only answer, we prayed even more. We pursued God\/pursued His Word, and clung to that hope that He gave to us for our marriage.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How would you encourage that person, who is married, that is all about that: \u201cI want to surrender my life to God. I\u2019m going to go for this, but my spouse is nowhere near that.\u201d What would you encourage them with? How do they live that out?\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> You brought up, in the beginning, how radical it is to be like: \u201cWhat if I\u2019m never happy? What if I\u2019m never fulfilled? What if they never\u2026?\u201d It is a hard thing to say; but to be honest, following Christ\u2014it\u2019s a <em>narrow<\/em> way. It might cause us to <em>not<\/em> have what we want, and <em>not<\/em> get what we feel we deserve, and <em>not <\/em>be fulfilled in certain ways.\n\nThe question we have to ask ourselves is: \u201cWhat do we want more?\u201d\u2014\u201cChrist?\u2014or happiness?\u201d\u2014\u201cChrist?\u2014or this healthy marriage over here?\u201d\u2014\u201cChrist?\u2014or a husband who treats me the way I think I deserve?\u2014or a wife who gives me what I think I need?\u201d\n\nOnce we can get to that point of saying: \u201cI want Christ. I want what <em>He<\/em> wants for me; I want what <em>He<\/em> has for me,\u201d it changes how we look at all of the things. When you look at the martyrs\u2014they can suffer the way they do because of what their eyes are on. Christ was able to go to the cross for the goal that was set before Him. He saw the promise; He knew what God was doing, and so He trusted His Father more than He trusted His flesh. We have a quote in the book that says, \u201cWe say, \u2018Yes,\u2019 to God even when our flesh screams, \u2018No!\u2019\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what we\u2019ve got to get to. It\u2019s like: \u201cI want to say, \u2018Yes,\u2019 to God, even when my flesh screams, \u2018No!\u2019\u2014even when it means I\u2019m going to lose property, or health, or comfort.\u201d\n\nWhat\u2019s amazing is\u2014sometimes, those things turn out for good, and happiness, and joy; and sometimes, they don\u2019t. But you know what?\u2014there\u2019s still a joy set before us. The goal is eternity; the goal is seeing what God wants to do in the lives around us. Then, at the end of the day, recognizing that the moment we got out of the way of ourselves\u2014got out of the way of what God was doing\u2014stop looking inward\/stop looking at: \u201cOh, woe is us! We don\u2019t have this\u2026\u201d\u2014we actually start looking at what God was doing.\n\nWe\u2019re just going to start saying, \u201cYes,\u201d and being obedient over here and being obedient over here; and \u201cOh, He wants us to step into this,\u201d and \u201cHe wants us to do that.\u201d Things became much more clear, where He was leading us\u2014\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> \u2014instead of being <em>so<\/em> inward-focused on ourselves.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jennifer, at what point in your marriage did this surrender moment happen?\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> It was about at the end of four years.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There had been, already, some relief in terms of the intimacy issues you had experienced\u2014yes or no?\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> The intimacy got restored or healed <em>after<\/em> this point.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Yes; nothing changed before that [surrender].\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> The spiritual surrendering happened before.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, as you were facing this, one of the things you were saying is, \u201cThis might mean a marriage without sexual intimacy.\u201d\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Correct.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> That was the conclusion I had to come to.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow; so paint a picture of your marriage at that point. What were you feeling? What experiences were you going through at that point?\n\n<strong>Jennifer: <\/strong>This is the dramatic entrance of the start of <em>The Unveiled Wife<\/em> book. We\u2019re sitting in church that day, thinking that our marriage is going to be separated; we\u2019re contemplating divorce.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> We\u2019re both, individually, thinking, \u201cDivorce.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; I thought, at lunch, that\u2019s when it was going to happen. But instead, this happened\u2014him, Aaron, telling me about this kind of vision he saw about Jesus in the Garden. Then you, also, going through this situation and having to surrender everything and embrace what God has for us. That was just\u2014\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> I would say, up until this point, we had treaded the waters of our marriage as long as we could on our own strength, trying to stay afloat. On the outside, we had been missionaries; and we love each other, and we\u2019re good friends, and people love us, and I served here and served there.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Everything looks good on the outside.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Social\u2019s media\u2019s so tricky because, based off the pictures we were posting\u2014or anything like that\u2014people would think we had a great marriage. But really, we were suffering on the inside, which I think a lot of people are probably there\u2014stuck in isolation.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Aaron: <\/strong>It was at the point of giving up. I feel like God\u2014that\u2019s, often, where God wants us to be.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you say you were thinking about divorce\u2014I remember our conversation\u2014you were thinking about it, because you loved Aaron. You were thinking he should not have to endure a marriage, where he cannot have intimacy with his wife.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; I wanted the best for him, and I thought I wasn\u2019t the best for him.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s almost sacrificial\u2014you\u2019re saying.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; yes. There was a heart there to <em>serve<\/em> your husband.\n\nYou were, really, wondering, Aaron, if you could survive, as a husband; weren\u2019t you?\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Yes; I had lots of wicked thoughts in that season\u2014allowing the lies of my circumstances to justify my thoughts and my actions\u2014and thinking: \u201cMan, I don\u2019t want to do this anymore. I\u2019m tired. Nothing\u2019s changing.\u201d I was mad at God: \u201cI thought I did everything right for you!\u201d I felt like He owed me something. I know you, Jennifer, went through similar feelings with God.\n\nHe wasn\u2019t done with me; He wasn\u2019t willing to let me go.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You talk in the book about how, during this season, you were satisfying yourself through pornography. A lot of people would hear your story and go: \u201cThis may be one of those exception clauses, where that\u2019s okay; because you can\u2019t have intimacy in marriage. Maybe this is an okay outlet for you, as a husband.\u201d\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> That\u2019s how you first justified it.\n\n<strong>Aaron: <\/strong>Yes; we often tell people, \u201cDon\u2019t let your spouse\u2019s actions dictate your own obedience.\u201d That\u2019s what I did\u2014I allowed my sin to happen, thinking: \u201cThe one place I\u2019m supposed to get intimacy\u2014I can\u2019t even have that, so what am I supposed to do?\u201d\n\nYou know what? To be honest, this was an issue with me <em>before<\/em> we were married. It was an issue into my marriage; it had nothing to do with my wife. I used our situation to justify it\/to allow myself. That\u2019s a lie, also, that I believed\u2014that I had these sexual needs that need to be met: \u201cI\u2019m going to find them elsewhere.\u201d\n\nActually, I have a sexuality that was designed for marriage. When we have all of these perspectives\u2014that are fleshly perspectives, not spiritual perspectives\u2014then we <em>think<\/em> they can be met otherwise, and they can\u2019t. That\u2019s how I thought.\n\nAnd you, even, used the situation to not have the right to say something to me or to just avoid the conversations?\n\n<strong>Jennifer: <\/strong>Yes; I avoided it.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> But that\u2019s not truth. I\u2019m going to stand before my Creator one day and make an account for my own life, and not my wife. She\u2019s not going to account for my life.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Was your surrender moment the turning point in terms of your pornography?\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Not exactly right away, but it was the starting point of that healing process for me.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> It began the process of me walking toward freedom that I already had. This is the truth that I didn\u2019t understand\u2014is recognizing the truth of what it was I was doing. It wasn\u2019t until a few years later\/a couple years later\u2014\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014a year-and-a-half\u2014\n\n<strong>Aaron: <\/strong>\u2014yes; that I was finally confronted. This is another conversation altogether\u2014I was finally confronted, head-on, with what it was I was doing. That was the moment. There was a journey of slowly changing things in my life, and my wife having the courage to confront me on things, and me being able to give up and realize what I was doing.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We may need to go into that moment.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When you say, \u201cI was confronted, head-on,\u201d you got everybody going, \u201cWhat did you mean by that?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ll follow up with that conversation. I want to\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wait, wait, Bob. Aaron\u2019s walking out the door. [Laughter] I don\u2019t think he wants to have that conversation. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know these guys\u2014they\u2019re open to just being who they are.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s one of the things we appreciate about you.\n\nIt\u2019s true about the book, <em>Marriage After God<\/em>, which we are making available this week to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. Anybody who can help the ministry with a donation\u2014we\u2019d love to send you a copy of Aaron and Jennifer\u2019s book. The subtitle is <em>Chasing Boldly After God\u2019s Purpose for Your Life Together<\/em>. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You can make a donation to support the ongoing work of this ministry; and we\u2019ll send you a copy of the book, <em>Marriage After God.<\/em>\n\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\nBy the way, when you support the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, what you\u2019re supporting is making this program available to hundreds of thousands of people, all around the world, every day. We\u2019ve got people, who are tuning in online; people, who are using our app; people, who are using their Amazon Alexa devices; people, who are listening on their local radio station. These folks get a chance to hear programs like you\u2019ve heard today because you helped make that possible when you make a donation to support the ongoing work of this ministry.\n\nAgain, if you can help with the donation, go to FamilyLifeToday.com and donate online; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Again, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com; and our number is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Be sure to ask for your copy of Aaron and Jennifer\u2019s book, <em>Marriage After God<\/em>,when you donate to support <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\nWe have the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, joining us again today. You heard something that kind of jumped out at you in today\u2019s conversation.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; that line, Bob\u2014I <em>loved<\/em> it: \u201cThe challenge we face shrinks, in perspective, in light of what Jesus did.\u201d Eugene Peterson\u2019s paraphrase of the Bible, <em>The Message<\/em>\u2014Hebrews 12 just kind of came into my mind as I heard that sentence. Eugene says it this way: \u201cKeep your eyes on Jesus, who both began and finished this race we\u2019re in. Study how He did it, because He never lost sight of where He was headed\u2014that exhilarating finish in and with God. He could put up with anything, along the way: cross, shame, whatever. When you find yourselves flagging in your faith, go over the story again, item by item\u2014that long litany of hostility He plowed through. That will shoot adrenalin into your souls.\u201d\n\nJesus had an advantage; He had been there before. He <em>knew<\/em> what He was fixing His eyes on. I think that is where we can, in faith, reflect on what He did\u2014how He persevered\u2014and fix our eyes <em>to<\/em> Jesus in whatever we\u2019re walking through: in our marriage, in our home, in our family, in our work situations\u2014whatever we\u2019re walking through, we can find hope in Him and look to Him as our example.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. Thank you for that, David.\n\nBy the way, have you heard about our summertime marriage fitness challenge that we\u2019ve got going on, here, at FamilyLife? We\u2019ve got available to you a workout schedule for your marriage; actually, three different workout schedules. You can go to our website and download the schedule that you want.\n\nWhen you enroll in our summertime marriage workout\u2014what we\u2019re calling \u201cStronger Forever\u201d\u2014you will, also, be entered into a contest, where you and your spouse could win a round-trip airfare and a stateroom on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage cruise in 2020. No purchase necessary to enter. The contest began on July 1, 2019; it ends on August 30, 2019. The official rules can be found at FamilyLife.com\/StrongerForever. Sign up today, and who knows?\u2014maybe, you\u2019ll be selected to join us, as our guests, on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise in 2020.\n\nI hope you can join us back, again, tomorrow. We\u2019re going to talk more about what it looks like to have a marriage focused on God and His glory with Aaron and Jennifer Smith. We\u2019re going to talk specifically about one of the challenges you guys faced, early, in your marriage. Aaron, you talk about this pretty openly\u2014about your struggle with pornography. We\u2019ll dive into that tomorrow. I hope our listeners can be with us for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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and Jennifer Smith talk about their struggles with intimacy, early in their marriage, and their decision to persevere.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-07-08.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Aaron Smith says, if you want a marriage that honors God, there\u2019s one key principle you need to keep in front of you at all times.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> We say, \u201cYes,\u201d to God even when our flesh screams, \u201cNo!\u201d\u2014that\u2019s where we\u2019ve got to get to. It\u2019s like, \u201cI want to say, \u2018Yes,\u2019 to God,\u201d and there\u2019s still a joy set before us. The goal is eternity; the goal is seeing what God wants to do in the lives around us. Then, at the end of the day, recognizing that the moment we got out of the way of ourselves\u2014got out of the way of what God was doing\u2014stop looking inward\/stop looking at: \u201cOh, woe is us! We don\u2019t have this\u2026\u201d\u2014we actually start looking at what God was doing.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, July 8<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. Who is setting the primary agenda for your marriage? Is it you?\u2014is it your spouse?\u2014or is it God? We\u2019ll talk with Aaron and Jennifer Smith today. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I\u2019ve heard enough of your story\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014you mean our fairytale? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It <em>is<\/em> a fairytale.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014until the ogre comes. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What? Who\u2019s the ogre? \u201cHoney! Honey! I need you to back me up.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No; <em>you<\/em> are Prince Charming.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There you go.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I know enough of your story to know you started marriage with an understanding that marriage was about more than just <em>your<\/em> happiness. But that had to be kind of a revolutionary thought for <em>you<\/em>, even when you were dating; because most people think marriage is about \u201cwhat I\u2019m going to get out of this deal\u201d; right?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; we learned that, before marriage, by going to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>,where that was probably the first time\u2014don\u2019t you think?\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> <em>Absolutely.<\/em>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014that we heard God has a bigger purpose than just you being happy.\n\nBut I\u2019ve got to be honest\u2014I still thought I\u2019d be happy\u2014[Laughter]\u2014that was a pretty important purpose; then, when I wasn\u2019t, I thought I married the wrong person.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s what happens\u2014we know it in our head; but when we experience marriage and we\u2019re <em>not<\/em> happy, we really do assume that: \u201cThat person I married is really messed up, and it\u2019s their fault.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cThat should be, at least, the baseline; and \u2018We\u2019ll build all this ministry on top of that,\u2019\u201d as opposed to thinking, \u201cGod is the baseline, and happiness gets crafted on top of that.\u201d\n\nWe\u2019ve got a couple joining us today\u2014actually, the wife\u2019s been here with us before; the husband is here as a first-timer\u2014Jennifer and Aaron Smith are with us. Welcome to the program, guys.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Hi, guys.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Thanks for having us.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jennifer was here\u2014what\u2019s it been?\u2014four or five years ago?\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; something like that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I just want to reference, here at the beginning of the program\u2014if folks want to go back and hear the podcast of the conversation with Jennifer, from a few years back\u2014really, an amazing story. Aaron, you wound up being part of it; we called you in the middle of talking with her.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Yes; I was called in; yes. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You called him on the phone?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wait; are you serious?\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Yes; oh yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We wanted to make sure that what Jennifer was saying was the real deal, so we called Aaron to get him to back it up.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That makes me want to listen, Aaron\u2014they really called you.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> They called me, and I\u2019m pretty sure I gave wrong details on the phone. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> We got it all worked out.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> But yes; they told me and interviewed me about some of the stuff that we went through. This is my first time on the show.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The early years of your marriage were challenging. In fact, we\u2019re not going to go deep into that because that\u2019s what we covered last time you were here.\n\nYou guys may not even be aware\u2014Jennifer, for the first three years of marriage, experienced great pain every time the two of you were intimate.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Talk about a wedge issue in marriage. Talk about trying to figure out: \u201cWhat\u2019s the foundation of this marriage?\u201d\u2014when sex and intimacy is pretty much taken off the table for the first three years?\u2014is that right?\n\n<strong>Jennifer and Aaron: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I read that in your recent book, <em>Marriage After God<\/em>. I\u2019m mature enough to know\u2014I don\u2019t want to start the conversation there\u2014but Bob, you went right there! [Laughter] We\u2019re going to start right there. When I read it, I was like, \u201cI do want to know more of that story.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m really interested, too, because\u2014speaking at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> for 30 years\u2014this is very typical, which most people don\u2019t think it is; because most people keep it hidden.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Typical that there\u2019s pain?\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014or typical\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann<\/strong>: \u2014typical that there is pain, and\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014physical pain?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014physical pain, and there\u2019s no one they have to talk to; and they don\u2019t know how to get help.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I remember feeling so embarrassed that I even had to bring it up to a doctor.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Jennifer: <\/strong>It is something that\u2019s very difficult to talk about; but I would say that, if you\u2019re willing to talk about it, there is healing that can be found.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you blogged about you, you, all of a sudden, were hearing from people from all over the world\u2014\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014who were saying, \u201cFinally, somebody is being open about what <em>we\u2019re <\/em>dealing with.\u201d\n\n<strong>Jennifer: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Even when we opened up about it in the beginning\u2014the nurse\/some close friends\u2014pretty much everyone was like, \u201cYou should be fine.\u201d We didn\u2019t open up as much as we should\u2019ve; but the couple times that we did, it reinforced in us that we were the only ones dealing with stuff.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; thanks for being real and bringing some things out into the open\u2014that most people are scared to do\u2014because you\u2019re giving hope to people.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And again, I\u2019ll point people to the podcast. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and listen to about 90 minutes\u2019 worth of conversation on this subject with Jennifer from a few years ago.\n\nWe should tell folks that you are the proud parents of <em>four<\/em> children, so things have worked out; right?\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Things have worked out; yes.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Things have changed; yes. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Today\u2014is that <em>still<\/em> an issue in your marriage?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I would say that it\u2019s different; because having four children\u2014kind of back to back\u2014there were some post-partum issues, and healing there\u2014\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> \u2014and other issues\u2014\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014just other issues.\n\nI would say that our perspective and our heart toward one another, no matter what issue we face now, we just feel stronger together, as a team, because of what we\u2019ve been through in the past\u2014and being able to pursue one another and persist through challenges\u2014knowing that God has a purpose for our marriage.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Aaron, your book, <em>Marriage After God,<\/em> really does get to that core issue I was talking with Dave and Ann about, which is the foundation of a marriage. You\u2019ve recognized that happiness can\u2019t be that foundation; even sexual intimacy can\u2019t be that foundation. When did it dawn on you that \u201cWe\u2019ve got to build on something other than \u2018how we\u2019re doing in marriage\u2019?\u201d\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Going through the difficulties in the beginning of our marriage\u2014everyone has their own version of this story; right?\u2014marriage isn\u2019t easy. We have our perspective and our foundation on things like: \u201cWhat\u2019s going to fulfill me?\u201d \u201cWhat was my expectation of how my wife\u2019s going to serve me or fulfill me?\u201d or \u201c\u2026what we\u2019re going to do, as a couple\u201d\u2014all those things get thrown out pretty quickly.\n\nFor us, it was our sexual intimacy; for others, it\u2019s other things. It got to a point where I\/we had to <em>either<\/em> say: \u201cLord, we\u2019re going to follow You anyway, even if nothing ever changes,\u201d and \u201cWe\u2019re going to allow You to change our hearts. We\u2019re going to allow You to use us and speak into us, and we\u2019re just going to submit,\u201d <em>OR<\/em> \u201cI\u2019m just going to rebel more,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m going to run away,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m going to try and find the things that I think I deserve.\u201d\n\nThat was kind of the culmination leading up to us finding healing in that area\u2014us realizing: \u201cOkay, God; these things that we think hinder us and have stopped us are actually things that you want to use.\u201d It took a surrendering\u2014this was about three-and-a-half-ish\/four years in\u2014of saying: \u201cOkay, Lord; if nothing changes\u2014if I don\u2019t get what I think I deserve, if my wife can never fulfill me in this way, if nothing\u2019s ever the way I expected it to be\u2014I\u2019m going to say: \u2018Yes\u2019 to You anyway. I want what You want.\u201d\n\nHe was pretty much able to convince me of this by reminding me of the story of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. It was Him reminding me of the Scriptures of Jesus praying and pleading with God that the cup of suffering would pass His lips. He asked three times\u2014each time, with that, He says, \u201cThis is what <em>I<\/em> want; but not what I want, but what <em>You <\/em>want, Lord.\u201d He gives us this example.\n\nHe\u2019s like: \u201cIf Jesus can choose My will over His comfort; My will over His <em>not<\/em> experiencing the pain, for His bride\u201d\u2014because that\u2019s essentially what was happening in that moment; He was about to go to the cross because of His bride\u2014\u201cand He did it anyway because it pleased God to do it.\u201d Do I think that I\u2019m owed something more than Jesus is owed? Do I think I have more of a right to my hurt, and my pain, and my discontentment, and my discomfort; do I have more of a right than Christ did?\n\nChrist was obedient. I said, \u201cOkay, Lord.\u201d He humbled me\u2014that\u2019s the only word I can use. I don\u2019t deserve <em>anything<\/em>, and He\u2019s given me <em>everything<\/em>. This thing that I\u2019m going through\u2014that <em>is<\/em> painful, and <em>is<\/em> not comfortable, and <em>is<\/em> not enjoyable\u2014is okay. I can still, actually, be obedient and love my wife as Christ loves the church, giving myself up for her\u2014that was the spiritual shift in my heart.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s radical, especially in our culture\u2014that\u2019s saying: \u201cYou deserve to be happy,\u201d \u201cYou deserve to have your needs met.\u201d This is a radical experience, where some people could be thinking, \u201cSo am I supposed to suffer in my marriage as Jesus did?\u201d\n\nJennifer, what were your thoughts? Did you go along those same lines?\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I think his leadership in taking this revelation that God showed him about Jesus in the Garden helped lead my heart to the same perspective. I\u2019m looking at him, going, \u201cOkay; if <em>you<\/em> can do this, <em>I<\/em> can do this.\u201d It set that example and helped me. Ultimately, we did love each other; and we wanted it to work out.\n\n<strong>Aaron: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> It\u2019s just\u2014we were also crumbling; so we had to make a choice that, even amidst of hard circumstances, we were going to persist together.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me ask you this\u2014when you make that decision: surrender\/submission\u2014I\u2019m listening to that going, \u201cWow; you talk about maturity.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I want to know the backstory of your walk with God.\n\nThat is a crucible so many of us get to, and I\u2019d say a lot <em>don\u2019t <\/em>make that decision\u2014they\u2019re like: \u201cI\u2019m out!\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI <em>want<\/em> happiness; I\u2019m not getting that.\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s interesting\u2014last year, we got to go to Israel for the first time.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Awesome.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There I am in the Garden. Our guide showed us this image that I\u2019ll never forget. When Jesus is praying: \u201cThy will be done; not My will. I want Your will over My will,\u201d he said, \u201cHe\u2019s probably looking at the gate and seeing the men coming to arrest Him.\u201d He\u2019s seeing that as He\u2019s praying it, <em>knowing<\/em> that the future\u2019s <em>that<\/em>, and \u201cI\u2019m choosing <em>that<\/em> even though I can see it.\u201d\n\nYou\u2019re almost in the same situation\u2014you\u2019re <em>not<\/em> seeing healing going to instantly happen. After you pray that\/after you surrender, what happened? Did it all like: \u201cOh, now we\u2019re good!\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Now, you\u2019re living the fairytale?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Or was it still a struggle?\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> It <em>was<\/em> still a struggle. What <em>changed<\/em> was our perspective. It became more of a heavenly-focused perspective\/more of a biblically-focused perspective. It wasn\u2019t contingent on our circumstances any longer. It was contingent on who we were looking at and who we were yielded to. It was saying, \u201cThe things that seem like a crucible and seem big\u2014they instantly shrink in size in comparison to who God is and what He\u2019s done\u2014once you yield your heart in that way.\n\nThat thing of: \u201cI\u2019m not <em>happy<\/em>,\u201d\u2014when you immediately focus on what Christ had done, and what that means for me, and what that now allows me to do and invites me to do for Him\u2014all those other things shrink. It didn\u2019t make them perfect immediately; it didn\u2019t fix everything right away. I was able to approach my wife in a <em>vastly<\/em> different way; because my perspective was no longer on, \u201cWell, she\u2019s not giving me what I deserve.\u201d\n\nNow, I\u2019m looking at her as a sister in Christ. I\u2019m looking at her as the bride that God has gifted to me. I\u2019m looking at her as the woman\/the ministry\u2014the person that God has given to me to pour into\u2014to encourage, to love on, to sacrifice for.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Instead of being consumed with thoughts of divorce or separation, thinking that was our only answer, we prayed even more. We pursued God\/pursued His Word, and clung to that hope that He gave to us for our marriage.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How would you encourage that person, who is married, that is all about that: \u201cI want to surrender my life to God. I\u2019m going to go for this, but my spouse is nowhere near that.\u201d What would you encourage them with? How do they live that out?\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> You brought up, in the beginning, how radical it is to be like: \u201cWhat if I\u2019m never happy? What if I\u2019m never fulfilled? What if they never\u2026?\u201d It is a hard thing to say; but to be honest, following Christ\u2014it\u2019s a <em>narrow<\/em> way. It might cause us to <em>not<\/em> have what we want, and <em>not<\/em> get what we feel we deserve, and <em>not <\/em>be fulfilled in certain ways.\n\nThe question we have to ask ourselves is: \u201cWhat do we want more?\u201d\u2014\u201cChrist?\u2014or happiness?\u201d\u2014\u201cChrist?\u2014or this healthy marriage over here?\u201d\u2014\u201cChrist?\u2014or a husband who treats me the way I think I deserve?\u2014or a wife who gives me what I think I need?\u201d\n\nOnce we can get to that point of saying: \u201cI want Christ. I want what <em>He<\/em> wants for me; I want what <em>He<\/em> has for me,\u201d it changes how we look at all of the things. When you look at the martyrs\u2014they can suffer the way they do because of what their eyes are on. Christ was able to go to the cross for the goal that was set before Him. He saw the promise; He knew what God was doing, and so He trusted His Father more than He trusted His flesh. We have a quote in the book that says, \u201cWe say, \u2018Yes,\u2019 to God even when our flesh screams, \u2018No!\u2019\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what we\u2019ve got to get to. It\u2019s like: \u201cI want to say, \u2018Yes,\u2019 to God, even when my flesh screams, \u2018No!\u2019\u2014even when it means I\u2019m going to lose property, or health, or comfort.\u201d\n\nWhat\u2019s amazing is\u2014sometimes, those things turn out for good, and happiness, and joy; and sometimes, they don\u2019t. But you know what?\u2014there\u2019s still a joy set before us. The goal is eternity; the goal is seeing what God wants to do in the lives around us. Then, at the end of the day, recognizing that the moment we got out of the way of ourselves\u2014got out of the way of what God was doing\u2014stop looking inward\/stop looking at: \u201cOh, woe is us! We don\u2019t have this\u2026\u201d\u2014we actually start looking at what God was doing.\n\nWe\u2019re just going to start saying, \u201cYes,\u201d and being obedient over here and being obedient over here; and \u201cOh, He wants us to step into this,\u201d and \u201cHe wants us to do that.\u201d Things became much more clear, where He was leading us\u2014\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> \u2014instead of being <em>so<\/em> inward-focused on ourselves.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jennifer, at what point in your marriage did this surrender moment happen?\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> It was about at the end of four years.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There had been, already, some relief in terms of the intimacy issues you had experienced\u2014yes or no?\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> The intimacy got restored or healed <em>after<\/em> this point.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Yes; nothing changed before that [surrender].\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> The spiritual surrendering happened before.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, as you were facing this, one of the things you were saying is, \u201cThis might mean a marriage without sexual intimacy.\u201d\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Correct.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> That was the conclusion I had to come to.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow; so paint a picture of your marriage at that point. What were you feeling? What experiences were you going through at that point?\n\n<strong>Jennifer: <\/strong>This is the dramatic entrance of the start of <em>The Unveiled Wife<\/em> book. We\u2019re sitting in church that day, thinking that our marriage is going to be separated; we\u2019re contemplating divorce.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> We\u2019re both, individually, thinking, \u201cDivorce.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; I thought, at lunch, that\u2019s when it was going to happen. But instead, this happened\u2014him, Aaron, telling me about this kind of vision he saw about Jesus in the Garden. Then you, also, going through this situation and having to surrender everything and embrace what God has for us. That was just\u2014\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> I would say, up until this point, we had treaded the waters of our marriage as long as we could on our own strength, trying to stay afloat. On the outside, we had been missionaries; and we love each other, and we\u2019re good friends, and people love us, and I served here and served there.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Everything looks good on the outside.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Social\u2019s media\u2019s so tricky because, based off the pictures we were posting\u2014or anything like that\u2014people would think we had a great marriage. But really, we were suffering on the inside, which I think a lot of people are probably there\u2014stuck in isolation.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Aaron: <\/strong>It was at the point of giving up. I feel like God\u2014that\u2019s, often, where God wants us to be.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you say you were thinking about divorce\u2014I remember our conversation\u2014you were thinking about it, because you loved Aaron. You were thinking he should not have to endure a marriage, where he cannot have intimacy with his wife.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; I wanted the best for him, and I thought I wasn\u2019t the best for him.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s almost sacrificial\u2014you\u2019re saying.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; yes. There was a heart there to <em>serve<\/em> your husband.\n\nYou were, really, wondering, Aaron, if you could survive, as a husband; weren\u2019t you?\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Yes; I had lots of wicked thoughts in that season\u2014allowing the lies of my circumstances to justify my thoughts and my actions\u2014and thinking: \u201cMan, I don\u2019t want to do this anymore. I\u2019m tired. Nothing\u2019s changing.\u201d I was mad at God: \u201cI thought I did everything right for you!\u201d I felt like He owed me something. I know you, Jennifer, went through similar feelings with God.\n\nHe wasn\u2019t done with me; He wasn\u2019t willing to let me go.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You talk in the book about how, during this season, you were satisfying yourself through pornography. A lot of people would hear your story and go: \u201cThis may be one of those exception clauses, where that\u2019s okay; because you can\u2019t have intimacy in marriage. Maybe this is an okay outlet for you, as a husband.\u201d\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> That\u2019s how you first justified it.\n\n<strong>Aaron: <\/strong>Yes; we often tell people, \u201cDon\u2019t let your spouse\u2019s actions dictate your own obedience.\u201d That\u2019s what I did\u2014I allowed my sin to happen, thinking: \u201cThe one place I\u2019m supposed to get intimacy\u2014I can\u2019t even have that, so what am I supposed to do?\u201d\n\nYou know what? To be honest, this was an issue with me <em>before<\/em> we were married. It was an issue into my marriage; it had nothing to do with my wife. I used our situation to justify it\/to allow myself. That\u2019s a lie, also, that I believed\u2014that I had these sexual needs that need to be met: \u201cI\u2019m going to find them elsewhere.\u201d\n\nActually, I have a sexuality that was designed for marriage. When we have all of these perspectives\u2014that are fleshly perspectives, not spiritual perspectives\u2014then we <em>think<\/em> they can be met otherwise, and they can\u2019t. That\u2019s how I thought.\n\nAnd you, even, used the situation to not have the right to say something to me or to just avoid the conversations?\n\n<strong>Jennifer: <\/strong>Yes; I avoided it.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> But that\u2019s not truth. I\u2019m going to stand before my Creator one day and make an account for my own life, and not my wife. She\u2019s not going to account for my life.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Was your surrender moment the turning point in terms of your pornography?\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> Not exactly right away, but it was the starting point of that healing process for me.\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Aaron:<\/strong> It began the process of me walking toward freedom that I already had. This is the truth that I didn\u2019t understand\u2014is recognizing the truth of what it was I was doing. It wasn\u2019t until a few years later\/a couple years later\u2014\n\n<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014a year-and-a-half\u2014\n\n<strong>Aaron: <\/strong>\u2014yes; that I was finally confronted. This is another conversation altogether\u2014I was finally confronted, head-on, with what it was I was doing. That was the moment. There was a journey of slowly changing things in my life, and my wife having the courage to confront me on things, and me being able to give up and realize what I was doing.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We may need to go into that moment.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When you say, \u201cI was confronted, head-on,\u201d you got everybody going, \u201cWhat did you mean by that?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ll follow up with that conversation. I want to\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wait, wait, Bob. Aaron\u2019s walking out the door. [Laughter] I don\u2019t think he wants to have that conversation. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know these guys\u2014they\u2019re open to just being who they are.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s one of the things we appreciate about you.\n\nIt\u2019s true about the book, <em>Marriage After God<\/em>, which we are making available this week to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. Anybody who can help the ministry with a donation\u2014we\u2019d love to send you a copy of Aaron and Jennifer\u2019s book. The subtitle is <em>Chasing Boldly After God\u2019s Purpose for Your Life Together<\/em>. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You can make a donation to support the ongoing work of this ministry; and we\u2019ll send you a copy of the book, <em>Marriage After God.<\/em>\n\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\nBy the way, when you support the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, what you\u2019re supporting is making this program available to hundreds of thousands of people, all around the world, every day. We\u2019ve got people, who are tuning in online; people, who are using our app; people, who are using their Amazon Alexa devices; people, who are listening on their local radio station. These folks get a chance to hear programs like you\u2019ve heard today because you helped make that possible when you make a donation to support the ongoing work of this ministry.\n\nAgain, if you can help with the donation, go to FamilyLifeToday.com and donate online; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Again, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com; and our number is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Be sure to ask for your copy of Aaron and Jennifer\u2019s book, <em>Marriage After God<\/em>,when you donate to support <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\nWe have the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, joining us again today. You heard something that kind of jumped out at you in today\u2019s conversation.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; that line, Bob\u2014I <em>loved<\/em> it: \u201cThe challenge we face shrinks, in perspective, in light of what Jesus did.\u201d Eugene Peterson\u2019s paraphrase of the Bible, <em>The Message<\/em>\u2014Hebrews 12 just kind of came into my mind as I heard that sentence. Eugene says it this way: \u201cKeep your eyes on Jesus, who both began and finished this race we\u2019re in. Study how He did it, because He never lost sight of where He was headed\u2014that exhilarating finish in and with God. He could put up with anything, along the way: cross, shame, whatever. When you find yourselves flagging in your faith, go over the story again, item by item\u2014that long litany of hostility He plowed through. That will shoot adrenalin into your souls.\u201d\n\nJesus had an advantage; He had been there before. He <em>knew<\/em> what He was fixing His eyes on. I think that is where we can, in faith, reflect on what He did\u2014how He persevered\u2014and fix our eyes <em>to<\/em> Jesus in whatever we\u2019re walking through: in our marriage, in our home, in our family, in our work situations\u2014whatever we\u2019re walking through, we can find hope in Him and look to Him as our example.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. Thank you for that, David.\n\nBy the way, have you heard about our summertime marriage fitness challenge that we\u2019ve got going on, here, at FamilyLife? We\u2019ve got available to you a workout schedule for your marriage; actually, three different workout schedules. You can go to our website and download the schedule that you want.\n\nWhen you enroll in our summertime marriage workout\u2014what we\u2019re calling \u201cStronger Forever\u201d\u2014you will, also, be entered into a contest, where you and your spouse could win a round-trip airfare and a stateroom on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage cruise in 2020. No purchase necessary to enter. The contest began on July 1, 2019; it ends on August 30, 2019. The official rules can be found at FamilyLife.com\/StrongerForever. Sign up today, and who knows?\u2014maybe, you\u2019ll be selected to join us, as our guests, on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise in 2020.\n\nI hope you can join us back, again, tomorrow. We\u2019re going to talk more about what it looks like to have a marriage focused on God and His glory with Aaron and Jennifer Smith. We\u2019re going to talk specifically about one of the challenges you guys faced, early, in your marriage. Aaron, you talk about this pretty openly\u2014about your struggle with pornography. We\u2019ll dive into that tomorrow. I hope our listeners can be with us for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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