{"id":305131,"date":"2019-07-04T06:00:05","date_gmt":"2019-07-04T10:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/finding-your-identity-in-christ\/"},"modified":"2019-07-04T06:00:05","modified_gmt":"2019-07-04T10:00:05","slug":"finding-your-identity-in-christ","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-your-identity-in-christ\/","title":{"rendered":"Finding Your Identity in Christ"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jackie Hill Perry talks about her former life as a practicing homosexual. Perry advises parents on what to do if their child is gay.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-07-04.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:03","filesize":"25.69M","filesize_raw":"26937355","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2906,2896],"tags":[4130,4133,4129,6669,6667,4825,6668],"podcast_series":[7174],"cwp_profile":[3555],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305131","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-becoming-a-christian","category-lgbt","tag-coming-out","tag-coming-to-christ","tag-homosexuality","tag-parents-with-gay-children","tag-teen-rebellion","tag-temptation","tag-what-parents-should-do-if-their-child-is-gay","podcast_series-gay-girl-good-god","cwp_profile-jackie-hill-perry","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305131\/finding-your-identity-in-christ","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305131\/finding-your-identity-in-christ","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"cuY5JBXnGf\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-your-identity-in-christ\/\">Finding Your Identity in Christ<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-your-identity-in-christ\/embed\/#?secret=cuY5JBXnGf\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Finding Your Identity in Christ&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"cuY5JBXnGf\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-07-04.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-07-04.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Although Jackie Hill Perry has experienced and has given into same-sex attraction in her life, she has decided not to refer to herself as a gay Christian. She says there are other things much more significant about her than the temptations she faces.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong><a id=\"_Hlk1560984\">I\u2019m a Christian. I\u2019m black; I\u2019m a woman; I\u2019m a mother; but I think my main\/primary identity is: \u201cI am a Christian.\u201d I love 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, where Paul is saying that neither an idolater, those who practice homosexuality\u2014notice he didn\u2019t say, \u201chomosexuals\u201d\u2014those who practice homosexuality, sexually immoral\u2014they will not inherit the kingdom of God. \u201cBut such were some of you. You were washed; you were sanctified; you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.\u201d <\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe talks about those sins in the past tense, so I\u2019m going to do the same thing; so for me, I refuse to identify myself by my temptations, but rather identify myself by what Christ has done for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, July 4<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. At the end of the day, understanding our identity, as followers of Christ, may be the foundation necessary for us to live lives that are pleasing to Him. We\u2019ll explore that idea today with Jackie Hill Perry. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on Thursday, on the 4<sup>th<\/sup> of July. I know we\u2019ve got listeners all over the world, but the 4<sup>th<\/sup> of July is a big day in the United States. In fact, I just have to say\u2014I\u2019m concerned that moms and dads are not doing a good job of reminding their children of the heritage of America and the goodness that is America. We ought to have our emotions stirred as we reflect on the patriotism of this country and the goodness of this country.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We, often, take our freedom for granted. I love that we can take a day and remember and celebrate our history.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; nobody\u2019s saying America is a perfect country\u2014we\u2019ve done everything right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No; no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got our issues\u2014and certainly, we do; and we need to address those issues\u2014but when you stop and think about things, is there a place on earth you\u2019d rather live? Is there a place on earth where you would enjoy the freedoms you enjoy in this country? God bless America.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> God bless America. He <em>has<\/em> blessed America.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We have been listening, this week, to an interview that we did\u2014this was back in March\u2014with an author named Jackie Hill Perry. She\u2019s written a book called <em>Gay Girl, Good God<\/em>. We\u2019ve heard, this week, her story of growing up and embracing a lifestyle of same-sex attraction, living as a lesbian for a couple of years before she met Jesus and had a transformational experience in her life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToday, the conversation goes to the whole issue of identity and how we understand, in this culture, where there\u2019s great confusion around gender, and sexuality, and identity. Jackie can speak to this maybe in a way that a lot of other people aren\u2019t able to speak to it because of her experience. We talked to her about the reality that\u2014the culture we live in today\u2014there are a lot of people who come at this issue with this predisposition\u2014they come, thinking: \u201cWell, I\u2019m gender fluid. I\u2019m part straight\/part gay.\u201d She says we\u2019ve got to rethink that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previously Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>I speak at a lot of conferences\u2014speak to a lot of youth\/a lot of parents\u2014everybody<a id=\"_Hlk1650519\">\u2014<\/a>mainly girls are the honest ones\u2014but everybody, in one way or another, thinks they\u2019re gay or struggles with being gay. Some of it is that we have not equipped our children to understand the place of temptation in the Christian life or in the human life. What has happened is\u2014children are being tempted and they are assuming, because the temptation exists, \u201cThis must be a part of who I am.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s the problem with this whole idea of orientation\u2014is that we have defined people by their affections. We just have to <em>reshape<\/em> how we see personhood, and how we see temptation, and how that this whole conversation of orientation. The word, heterosexual, doesn\u2019t even exist in the Scriptures; oftentimes, when homosexuality is mentioned, it\u2019s a verb, not a noun!\u2014but we made it a noun. So now, when people are struggling, it\u2019s like: \u201cOh, that\u2019s who you <em>are<\/em>; so this must be really hard for you to resist.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s like: \u201cNo; that\u2019s not necessarily who they are\u2014that\u2019s what they <em>do<\/em>. Who they are is a sinner; but who they are is, also, an image-bearer of the living God.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>In the last part of your book, you go into identity, which is a fascinating thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes! It\u2019s <em>huge<\/em>; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Talk about identity from that, because that\u2019s what our culture thinks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes; I think this is how it fleshes it out when someone is a believer. The world, and their temptations, and the devil, and the flesh will say, \u201cOkay; because you are still tempted with this, you are not a Christian; you are not a believer.\u201d It\u2019s like: \u201cNo!\u2014even Jesus was tempted; yet, without sin. His position with God, and who He was before God was not changed because of His temptations. If anything, who He was governed how He responded to them.\u201d The question shouldn\u2019t be, \u201c<em>If<\/em> I\u2019m tempted\u2026\u201d; the question is, \u201cWhat do you do when you <em>are<\/em> tempted?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So, we have parents coming to us, a lot in the church, saying, \u201cMy son\u201d or \u201c\u2026daughter just came out.\u201d Can you talk to them and tell them they shouldn\u2019t <em>be<\/em> that person?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>\u2014shouldn\u2019t be gay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014shouldn\u2019t be gay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! What would you <em>say<\/em> to those people that come up? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>I would wonder if this is a matter of pride for them; because I\u2019ve seen where some parents\u2014<em>you<\/em> don\u2019t want your children to be gay, because you don\u2019t want someone to indict your parenting.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the end of the day, it\u2019s a matter of sin. Does our parenting affect, I guess, the ways in which our children might go?\u2014sure; for sure! But at the end of the day, this is between them and the Lord. They don\u2019t believe <em>Him<\/em>; and they\u2019re just struggling with sin, because they are human beings in the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would also say that it is <em>always<\/em> a good thing to bring your stuff into the light because, if someone cannot be honest about their sin, they can\u2019t confess; <em>nor<\/em> can you counsel them \/ <em>nor<\/em> can you disciple them, because you don\u2019t even know where they are. For someone to come out of the closet, <em>allows<\/em> for people to be like: \u201cOh! That\u2019s where you are. That\u2019s who you say you are at this moment. Cool! Let\u2019s deal with it; let\u2019s talk about it; let\u2019s discuss it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think our response, as people\u2014as parents, as disciple makers, as youth pastors\u2014is to respond to the confession of sin\u2014whether it\u2019s coming out of the closet or not\u2014the same way that Jesus does\/the same way that God does. I\u2019ve always been encouraged by how, in the Garden, when God approached Adam and Eve after they sinned\u2014He didn\u2019t stomp through the Garden; He didn\u2019t run in that muck\u2014it said He walked in the cool of the day. He was very <em>calm<\/em> in His approach to them, even when they were sinning. I think we need to be the same way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I have a friend, who says when anybody is honest with you, that\u2019s a confession. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>What do they want?\u2014a priest; they want someone to lean in and empathize with them and walk with them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut here\u2019s the thing: in the church, this confession: \u201cI\u2019m gay,\u201d is the sin of all sins\u2014that\u2019s the perspective\u2014so they are not going to say it. And if they <em>do<\/em>, that\u2019s why these parents are coming in, going: \u201cWhat do I do?! What do I do?! He\u2019s not saying he\u2019s struggling with his integrity; he\u2019s saying his <em>identity<\/em> is\u2014 he\u2019s a gay person. I don\u2019t know what to do with that.\u201d What would you say to them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>You are more equipped to handle this than you think. One, you have the Holy Spirit! That\u2019s why I love the Book of Acts. God is prompting these men to say stuff on the <em>fly<\/em> that is full of gospel, full of truth, wise, winsome, and honest. I think God\u2014like we have the same Holy Spirit in us\u2014so even these random conversations that we have can be little \u201cActs moments,\u201d where we see the Lord doing what He said He would do, which is to give us the words to speak when we need them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut two, we may not all understand each other\u2019s specific sin; but we need to understand sin in general. The same gospel application you need now and today\u2014the same way you needed someone to walk with you when you were struggling is the same thing you do. It\u2019s <em>really<\/em> that simple. Also, recognize that someone\u2019s salvation is not dependent on <em>you<\/em>! God <em>uses<\/em> us, but does He <em>need<\/em> us?\u2014not necessarily! He could have an angel come and blow a trumpet and say, \u201cHey; believe Jesus is Lord,\u201d and that\u2019s that! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut He chooses to invite us into the Great Commission and <em>use<\/em> us to draw people to Himself; so don\u2019t have all this <em>pressure<\/em> on yourself to say, \u201cI have to preach the gospel every single time for them to be converted.\u201d You\u2019re not nobody\u2019s Holy Spirit; you know? Just live life; preach the gospel when you need to; make food\u2014hospitality works! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m hearing you say that; and I\u2019m thinking, Eden\u2019s three years old. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Can you even imagine Eden being 17 and saying to you, \u201cMom, I\u2019m gay\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>I expect it! I am not na\u00efve to this culture. Because I really believe that it is <em>so<\/em> normative that the same struggle that\u2019s been going on for the past 30\/40 years\u2014when it comes to fornication and losing our virginity earlier and earlier\u2014is the same struggle that children will have with their identities. I\u2019m expecting it! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI am already <em>preparing<\/em> her to not see herself through the lens of what she\u2019s attracted to or by what she is tempted by; but instead, to see herself through the lens of who she\u2019s created for and what she should do with it: \u201cJust because you are tempted by this, that doesn\u2019t govern your identity. This is how we respond to temptation, as Christians, and as non-Christians.\u201d I\u2019m not <em>waiting<\/em> until she\u2019s 17 to disciple her into understanding sexuality. I\u2019m starting now, at a three-year-old level, saying, \u201cI know you want to be angry, and I know you want to throw your Daniel tiger toy; but just because you feel it, that\u2019s not what you do.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If at 17, she says, \u201cMom, I\u2019m gay,\u201d what do you do at that point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Will I grieve in some ways?\u2014yes. But I am prepared to hear things from her that may not be my expectation. I am not trying to set myself up to think that I will be able to guard my child from the evil one; but instead, I\u2019m praying that whatever she goes through\/whatever trials the Lord throws her way, that they would be whether God is building a testimony in her or the way He draws her. I\u2019m saying that now, but that\u2019s what I want to hold onto.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>What would you say to those parents, whose\u2014maybe their kids are married to same-sex person or in a relationship\u2014what would you say to <em>them<\/em>? What would be the best way for them to love their kids?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>One of the things I\u2019ve done, when it comes to people who have partners is, honestly, to love them like I would love anybody else\u2014to converse with them on a human level\u2014to be hospitable even. I <em>enjoy<\/em> seeing Jesus sitting at tables with sinners a whole lot\u2014in their houses\/in their homes\u2014eating with them. The only people who have beef with it are the self-righteous folk.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>I think hospitality goes a <em>long way<\/em>; because unbelievers, and specifically those in the gay community, don\u2019t expect Christians to be hospitable. They don\u2019t expect Christians to be kind. They don\u2019t expect Christians to be able to see through them in such a way, where it\u2019s not just \u201cLet me be nice to the gay people,\u201d but \u201cLet me be nice to David,\u201d \u201cLet me be nice to Paul.\u201d What is their name? Do we even know their name? Do we know their favorite color? Do we know what they like to do?\u2014how they were raised? Or is the basis of our whole understanding of this person just their sexuality? People are much more complex then who they are attracted to, so our evangelism should be the same. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Your book title says <em>Gay Girl<\/em>; and yet, you say, \u201cThat\u2019s not my identity.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Right; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Again, I\u2019m going to press in on this: \u201cWhat <em>is<\/em> your identity?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>I\u2019m a Christian\u2014I\u2019m black; I\u2019m a woman; I\u2019m a mother; but I think my main\/primary identity is: \u201cI am a Christian.\u201d I love 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, where Paul is saying that neither an idolater, those who practice homosexuality\u2014notice he didn\u2019t say, \u201chomosexuals\u201d\u2014those who practice homosexuality, sexually immoral\u2014they will not inherit the kingdom of God. \u201cBut such were some of you. You were washed; you were sanctified; you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.\u201d He talks about those sins in the past tense. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m going to do the same thing; that\u2019s why the subtitle says: <em>The Story of Who I Was, and Who God Has Always Been. <\/em>For me, I refuse to identify myself by my temptations; but rather identify myself by what Christ has done for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, there are Christian colleges and universities, where they go, \u201cYes; we couldn\u2019t invite Jackie Hill Perry come speak to our\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>No, no; I know some of them; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And there are students at those universities who find you subversive and problematic\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014at Christian universities.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes! I feel as if people\u2019s compassion is trumping their convictions or changing their convictions\u2014you know?\u2014where, in the name of compassion, we feel as if we have to loosen up our grip on what the Scriptures have to say to be loving\u2014when that\u2019s <em>not<\/em> loving; that\u2019s going the opposite way of love. I think some of it is because we don\u2019t see that God is the highest good. If I think you just being with whoever you want to be with is the highest good, then that\u2019s what I\u2019m going to affirm. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut how <em>unkind<\/em> of me to allow you to believe that the freedom to love anybody on earth, as long as this life lasts\u2014which is very short\u2014is the best thing for you <em>when<\/em> we have a whole eternity that we have to spend somewhere. If anything, I need to remind you that even marriage <em>doesn\u2019t last<\/em>. The relationship that lasts is the relationship between Christ and His church. <em>That\u2019s<\/em> the relationship that I want to overemphasize for you\u2014is to love Him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut also, we are a people who are naturally fearful\u2014we fear our tax [exemption] being revoked; we fear people not applying to our schools; we fear being called bigoted; we fear being identified with Jesus. I think God has not given us a spirit of fear. I think we have to be willing to believe that, so that we won\u2019t give into it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>John 1:14, you know, says Jesus was the reflection of the Father; and it says He was full of grace and truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think we\u2019ve got a lot of people today who are full of truth and haven\u2019t figured out the grace thing yet. And I think we got people who are full of grace and have let loose of truth. All of us have to figure out: \u201cHow can we be, in our relationships with others, like Jesus?\u2014not half truth\/half grace\u2014but <em>full<\/em> of grace <em>and<\/em> truth; so that we don\u2019t back down from truth, but we don\u2019t back down from grace either.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Okay; let me ask you this, based on grace and truth: \u201cIf your son or daughter was deciding to marry a person of the same sex, would you go to their wedding?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me ask the expert on that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Toss the hammer! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Expert?\u2014I am not that; I am not that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes?Well, how have you counseled people who have asked you that question?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>One, I\u2019ve affirmed the difficulty of it: \u201cThat is a really <em>hard<\/em> conversation to have,\u201d\u2014and I\u2019m sensitive to that. But <em>my<\/em> conviction is that I would not attend, primarily, because I believe marriage is a glorious thing that God created to show off His gospel. Because of that, to be present at something that is, technically, not a biblical marriage, I believe, is affirmation of the union. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I also think, on the other end, and me having to <em>explain<\/em> why I could not attend is room for a gospel conversation, where it\u2019s: \u201cThis is God...\u201d \u201cThis is why He made marriage...\u201d \u201cThis is what marriage is supposed to be; and I have to honor Him, even if that means our relationship has some tension\/has some weirdness. I don\u2019t want there to be weirdness; I don\u2019t want there to be tension,\u201d\u2014being honest\u2014\u201cI want to go, because I don\u2019t want you to think that I don\u2019t love you; but I can\u2019t.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You said that\u2019s a matter of personal conviction. I think there\u2019s space here for us to look at this situation and go, \u201cThis is a hard, sober question; and you have to, before God, wrestle this to the ground, and say, \u2018What is it that God would have me do in this situation?\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d double check your\u2014because you\u2019re going to lean in one of two directions. I would say: \u201cOkay; it\u2019s my natural bent to lean this way\u2014lean in the grace direction,\u201d or \u201c\u2026lean in the truth direction.\u201d I think you have to look and say, \u201cIf that\u2019s my natural bent, I need to really fully embrace the other part of that and see, \u2018Why am I coming to the conclusion I\u2019m coming to?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I wanted to get to the point, where you started looking at a guy and going, \u201cHe looks good to me!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: \u201c<\/strong>He looks good to me.\u201d [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Tell us about <em>that<\/em> relationship\u2014with your husband now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>The thing with Preston is\u2014when we met, we met at a poetry show. I was doing a poem about my testimony as an ex-lesbian; he was doing his poem about how he used to sleep with everything that can walk and had lip gloss. We met, you know, with all of our stuff out on the table. He was out here; I was like out here. We were like, \u201cHey, we should be friends.\u201d At that time, I was a believer for maybe six months, so I was <em>not<\/em> interested in him\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>\u2014in the least bit. But over the course of three years, we were just friends. He lived in Chicago; I lived in L.A. for a time. I started to have an affection for him that I didn\u2019t know what to do with. I thought, \u201cMaybe I\u2019m just bored,\u201d\u2014I had nobody to text in a long time; [Laughter] I hadn\u2019t been in a relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s why we started dating, too; I was bored! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yeah! Because, you know, you\u2019ve got friends\u2014and they\u2019re texting everybody\u2014and it is just like you\u2019re in movies alone. It\u2019s like, \u201cMan, I just want to text someone.\u201d That\u2019s what I thought; but I told the woman that was discipling me, \u201cI think I like Preston, but I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s the devil. I don\u2019t know\u2026\u201d [Laughter] This was serious\u2014like, \u201cI don\u2019t know what to do.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>She said, \u201cJust keep praying about it.\u201d For a <em>year<\/em>, I just continued to pray, hoping that the affections would wane in some way; and they never did\u2014they just kept increasing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinally, I just told God\u2014I said: \u201cGod, I don\u2019t know what Your plan is for me and Preston; but if it is Your plan for us to be friends, then give me the self-control to treat him like a brother and not a crush. But if it\u2019s Your plan for us to be together, then put it on his heart to pursue me.\u201d He calls me a week later! He says: \u201cHey, I feel like God is calling me to pursue you. I like you; do you like me?\u201d I said, \u201cYes; I do.\u201d He was shocked, and there we go! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the thing is my attraction to him took time. I was attracted to his character first. I was attracted to his intentionality, his consistency, his intelligence, his mind, his creativity. But with that, as we started to grow in intimacy with each other, is when I then became attracted to all that he was, which includes him being a man. It\u2019s taken time, but it\u2019s happened. I think the distinction is\u2014I\u2019m not attracted to men in general; I\u2019m attracted to <em>a<\/em> man\u2014the man that God has called me to be with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, again, we\u2019ve been listening to a conversation with Jackie Hill Perry, the author of a book called <em>Gay Girl, Good God<\/em>. What great insights on the whole issue of understanding your identity: who you are; who God created you to be, and embracing that and living that out. I just think that\u2019s so desperate in our culture today. We need to hear these messages.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think God has raised up Jackie Hill Perry in this time. It\u2019s a time and a culture of confusion. Nobody seems to know the answers; and she brings God\u2019s Word in a very specific way because of her experiences, as a person. I really believe God is using her to bring answers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> She has a voice that is powerful, because she\u2019s been there. She can say things that some of us couldn\u2019t say. I love that she is so honest; I love her theology; I love her boldness; and I love her vulnerability.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It was fun to be able to ask her questions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think listeners will really appreciate\u2014you appreciated her book. I remember you saying to her: \u201c\u2026beautifully-written book\u201d as well as being \u201ca compelling story.\u201d We\u2019ve got copies of Jackie\u2019s book, <em>Gay Girl, Good God<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Our offices are closed today, because of the holiday; so the best way to order is online. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, who is with us. He\u2019s been listening back to these conversations with Jackie Hill Perry, and this is powerful stuff.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David: <\/strong>Yes!Wow, Bob! There is so much that is helpful today, but the core of this conversation comes down to knowing who we are in Christ. Our identity is that we are a new creation; and as Jackie said, we aren\u2019t defined by what we are tempted by and we aren\u2019t defined by successes or failures. We are defined by Jesus and His performance on our behalf and <em>His<\/em> opinion of us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s so good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David: <\/strong>We\u2019re going to have successes and failures\u2014as a husband or a wife\/as moms and dads\u2014as ambassadors of Christ, trying to have an impact in our communities. There will be good days and bad days. But as Henri Nouwen said, \u201cIf you know you are the Beloved of God, you can live with an enormous amount of success or an enormous amount of failure without losing your identity; because your identity is that you are the Beloved.\u201d Let\u2019s live out our identity of being the Beloved today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; absolutely. Thank you, David. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne final note before we\u2019re done here today, on the 4<sup>th<\/sup> of July\u2014when it\u2019s warm and sunny, most places, outside\u2014and a lot of people enjoying a holiday today. How would you like to be somewhere where it is warm and sunny?\u2014except it\u2019s Valentine\u2019s Week\u2014and most places, it\u2019s cold or snowy; but you\u2019re in the sunshine and in the warmth? What I\u2019m talking about is the 2020 <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage cruise that FamilyLife will be hosting, Valentine\u2019s Week of 2020.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re at the point where we\u2019re either completely sold out or we\u2019ve got a handful of staterooms left. I\u2019m not sure exactly what that number is at this point. But I do know this\u2014there\u2019s one cabin available that\u2019s not for sale, because we\u2019re going to be giving a stateroom to a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener. We\u2019ll cover the cost of your airfare for you and your spouse, your cabin\/your stateroom, and we\u2019ll put you up in the hotel the night before the cruise. We\u2019ll take care of all of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s how you qualify. You sign up, as a couple, for a workout plan. This is a relationship workout we\u2019ve got planned for you\u2014this is so that you, as a couple, can strengthen your marriage. In fact, it\u2019s called \u201cThe Stronger Forever Marriage Workout.\u201d When you sign up, we\u2019ll send you the workout details. We\u2019ll send you some emails to prompt you during the next several weeks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou sign up for the workout. You do some of the workout and one of you\u2014one couple\u2014we\u2019re going to draw your names, and you\u2019ll be our guests on the 2020 <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise. There is no purchase necessary to enter. The contest began July 1, 2019; it ends on August 30, 2019. Official rules can be found at FamilyLIfe.com\/StrongerForever. We\u2019ll look forward to seeing one lucky couple on the 2020 <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope you can join us back tomorrow when we\u2019re going to hear a remarkable story from a woman who was told, at one point, that she had what the doctor said was a Christopher Reeve-level injury. They said she would be in a wheelchair throughout the rest of her life. That\u2019s not exactly what\u2019s happened for Katherine Clark. We\u2019ll hear her story tomorrow, so I hope you can join us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:28:03"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.69M"],"filesize_raw":["26937355"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305131.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305131.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Hill Perry talks about her former life as a practicing homosexual. Perry advises parents on what to do if their child is gay.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-07-04.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Although Jackie Hill Perry has experienced and has given into same-sex attraction in her life, she has decided not to refer to herself as a gay Christian. She says there are other things much more significant about her than the temptations she faces.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong><a id=\"_Hlk1560984\">I\u2019m a Christian. I\u2019m black; I\u2019m a woman; I\u2019m a mother; but I think my main\/primary identity is: \u201cI am a Christian.\u201d I love 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, where Paul is saying that neither an idolater, those who practice homosexuality\u2014notice he didn\u2019t say, \u201chomosexuals\u201d\u2014those who practice homosexuality, sexually immoral\u2014they will not inherit the kingdom of God. \u201cBut such were some of you. You were washed; you were sanctified; you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.\u201d <\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe talks about those sins in the past tense, so I\u2019m going to do the same thing; so for me, I refuse to identify myself by my temptations, but rather identify myself by what Christ has done for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, July 4<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. At the end of the day, understanding our identity, as followers of Christ, may be the foundation necessary for us to live lives that are pleasing to Him. We\u2019ll explore that idea today with Jackie Hill Perry. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on Thursday, on the 4<sup>th<\/sup> of July. I know we\u2019ve got listeners all over the world, but the 4<sup>th<\/sup> of July is a big day in the United States. In fact, I just have to say\u2014I\u2019m concerned that moms and dads are not doing a good job of reminding their children of the heritage of America and the goodness that is America. We ought to have our emotions stirred as we reflect on the patriotism of this country and the goodness of this country.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We, often, take our freedom for granted. I love that we can take a day and remember and celebrate our history.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; nobody\u2019s saying America is a perfect country\u2014we\u2019ve done everything right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No; no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got our issues\u2014and certainly, we do; and we need to address those issues\u2014but when you stop and think about things, is there a place on earth you\u2019d rather live? Is there a place on earth where you would enjoy the freedoms you enjoy in this country? God bless America.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> God bless America. He <em>has<\/em> blessed America.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We have been listening, this week, to an interview that we did\u2014this was back in March\u2014with an author named Jackie Hill Perry. She\u2019s written a book called <em>Gay Girl, Good God<\/em>. We\u2019ve heard, this week, her story of growing up and embracing a lifestyle of same-sex attraction, living as a lesbian for a couple of years before she met Jesus and had a transformational experience in her life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToday, the conversation goes to the whole issue of identity and how we understand, in this culture, where there\u2019s great confusion around gender, and sexuality, and identity. Jackie can speak to this maybe in a way that a lot of other people aren\u2019t able to speak to it because of her experience. We talked to her about the reality that\u2014the culture we live in today\u2014there are a lot of people who come at this issue with this predisposition\u2014they come, thinking: \u201cWell, I\u2019m gender fluid. I\u2019m part straight\/part gay.\u201d She says we\u2019ve got to rethink that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previously Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>I speak at a lot of conferences\u2014speak to a lot of youth\/a lot of parents\u2014everybody<a id=\"_Hlk1650519\">\u2014<\/a>mainly girls are the honest ones\u2014but everybody, in one way or another, thinks they\u2019re gay or struggles with being gay. Some of it is that we have not equipped our children to understand the place of temptation in the Christian life or in the human life. What has happened is\u2014children are being tempted and they are assuming, because the temptation exists, \u201cThis must be a part of who I am.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s the problem with this whole idea of orientation\u2014is that we have defined people by their affections. We just have to <em>reshape<\/em> how we see personhood, and how we see temptation, and how that this whole conversation of orientation. The word, heterosexual, doesn\u2019t even exist in the Scriptures; oftentimes, when homosexuality is mentioned, it\u2019s a verb, not a noun!\u2014but we made it a noun. So now, when people are struggling, it\u2019s like: \u201cOh, that\u2019s who you <em>are<\/em>; so this must be really hard for you to resist.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s like: \u201cNo; that\u2019s not necessarily who they are\u2014that\u2019s what they <em>do<\/em>. Who they are is a sinner; but who they are is, also, an image-bearer of the living God.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>In the last part of your book, you go into identity, which is a fascinating thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes! It\u2019s <em>huge<\/em>; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Talk about identity from that, because that\u2019s what our culture thinks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes; I think this is how it fleshes it out when someone is a believer. The world, and their temptations, and the devil, and the flesh will say, \u201cOkay; because you are still tempted with this, you are not a Christian; you are not a believer.\u201d It\u2019s like: \u201cNo!\u2014even Jesus was tempted; yet, without sin. His position with God, and who He was before God was not changed because of His temptations. If anything, who He was governed how He responded to them.\u201d The question shouldn\u2019t be, \u201c<em>If<\/em> I\u2019m tempted\u2026\u201d; the question is, \u201cWhat do you do when you <em>are<\/em> tempted?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So, we have parents coming to us, a lot in the church, saying, \u201cMy son\u201d or \u201c\u2026daughter just came out.\u201d Can you talk to them and tell them they shouldn\u2019t <em>be<\/em> that person?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>\u2014shouldn\u2019t be gay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014shouldn\u2019t be gay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! What would you <em>say<\/em> to those people that come up? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>I would wonder if this is a matter of pride for them; because I\u2019ve seen where some parents\u2014<em>you<\/em> don\u2019t want your children to be gay, because you don\u2019t want someone to indict your parenting.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the end of the day, it\u2019s a matter of sin. Does our parenting affect, I guess, the ways in which our children might go?\u2014sure; for sure! But at the end of the day, this is between them and the Lord. They don\u2019t believe <em>Him<\/em>; and they\u2019re just struggling with sin, because they are human beings in the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would also say that it is <em>always<\/em> a good thing to bring your stuff into the light because, if someone cannot be honest about their sin, they can\u2019t confess; <em>nor<\/em> can you counsel them \/ <em>nor<\/em> can you disciple them, because you don\u2019t even know where they are. For someone to come out of the closet, <em>allows<\/em> for people to be like: \u201cOh! That\u2019s where you are. That\u2019s who you say you are at this moment. Cool! Let\u2019s deal with it; let\u2019s talk about it; let\u2019s discuss it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think our response, as people\u2014as parents, as disciple makers, as youth pastors\u2014is to respond to the confession of sin\u2014whether it\u2019s coming out of the closet or not\u2014the same way that Jesus does\/the same way that God does. I\u2019ve always been encouraged by how, in the Garden, when God approached Adam and Eve after they sinned\u2014He didn\u2019t stomp through the Garden; He didn\u2019t run in that muck\u2014it said He walked in the cool of the day. He was very <em>calm<\/em> in His approach to them, even when they were sinning. I think we need to be the same way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I have a friend, who says when anybody is honest with you, that\u2019s a confession. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>What do they want?\u2014a priest; they want someone to lean in and empathize with them and walk with them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut here\u2019s the thing: in the church, this confession: \u201cI\u2019m gay,\u201d is the sin of all sins\u2014that\u2019s the perspective\u2014so they are not going to say it. And if they <em>do<\/em>, that\u2019s why these parents are coming in, going: \u201cWhat do I do?! What do I do?! He\u2019s not saying he\u2019s struggling with his integrity; he\u2019s saying his <em>identity<\/em> is\u2014 he\u2019s a gay person. I don\u2019t know what to do with that.\u201d What would you say to them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>You are more equipped to handle this than you think. One, you have the Holy Spirit! That\u2019s why I love the Book of Acts. God is prompting these men to say stuff on the <em>fly<\/em> that is full of gospel, full of truth, wise, winsome, and honest. I think God\u2014like we have the same Holy Spirit in us\u2014so even these random conversations that we have can be little \u201cActs moments,\u201d where we see the Lord doing what He said He would do, which is to give us the words to speak when we need them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut two, we may not all understand each other\u2019s specific sin; but we need to understand sin in general. The same gospel application you need now and today\u2014the same way you needed someone to walk with you when you were struggling is the same thing you do. It\u2019s <em>really<\/em> that simple. Also, recognize that someone\u2019s salvation is not dependent on <em>you<\/em>! God <em>uses<\/em> us, but does He <em>need<\/em> us?\u2014not necessarily! He could have an angel come and blow a trumpet and say, \u201cHey; believe Jesus is Lord,\u201d and that\u2019s that! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut He chooses to invite us into the Great Commission and <em>use<\/em> us to draw people to Himself; so don\u2019t have all this <em>pressure<\/em> on yourself to say, \u201cI have to preach the gospel every single time for them to be converted.\u201d You\u2019re not nobody\u2019s Holy Spirit; you know? Just live life; preach the gospel when you need to; make food\u2014hospitality works! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m hearing you say that; and I\u2019m thinking, Eden\u2019s three years old. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Can you even imagine Eden being 17 and saying to you, \u201cMom, I\u2019m gay\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>I expect it! I am not na\u00efve to this culture. Because I really believe that it is <em>so<\/em> normative that the same struggle that\u2019s been going on for the past 30\/40 years\u2014when it comes to fornication and losing our virginity earlier and earlier\u2014is the same struggle that children will have with their identities. I\u2019m expecting it! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI am already <em>preparing<\/em> her to not see herself through the lens of what she\u2019s attracted to or by what she is tempted by; but instead, to see herself through the lens of who she\u2019s created for and what she should do with it: \u201cJust because you are tempted by this, that doesn\u2019t govern your identity. This is how we respond to temptation, as Christians, and as non-Christians.\u201d I\u2019m not <em>waiting<\/em> until she\u2019s 17 to disciple her into understanding sexuality. I\u2019m starting now, at a three-year-old level, saying, \u201cI know you want to be angry, and I know you want to throw your Daniel tiger toy; but just because you feel it, that\u2019s not what you do.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If at 17, she says, \u201cMom, I\u2019m gay,\u201d what do you do at that point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Will I grieve in some ways?\u2014yes. But I am prepared to hear things from her that may not be my expectation. I am not trying to set myself up to think that I will be able to guard my child from the evil one; but instead, I\u2019m praying that whatever she goes through\/whatever trials the Lord throws her way, that they would be whether God is building a testimony in her or the way He draws her. I\u2019m saying that now, but that\u2019s what I want to hold onto.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>What would you say to those parents, whose\u2014maybe their kids are married to same-sex person or in a relationship\u2014what would you say to <em>them<\/em>? What would be the best way for them to love their kids?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>One of the things I\u2019ve done, when it comes to people who have partners is, honestly, to love them like I would love anybody else\u2014to converse with them on a human level\u2014to be hospitable even. I <em>enjoy<\/em> seeing Jesus sitting at tables with sinners a whole lot\u2014in their houses\/in their homes\u2014eating with them. The only people who have beef with it are the self-righteous folk.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>I think hospitality goes a <em>long way<\/em>; because unbelievers, and specifically those in the gay community, don\u2019t expect Christians to be hospitable. They don\u2019t expect Christians to be kind. They don\u2019t expect Christians to be able to see through them in such a way, where it\u2019s not just \u201cLet me be nice to the gay people,\u201d but \u201cLet me be nice to David,\u201d \u201cLet me be nice to Paul.\u201d What is their name? Do we even know their name? Do we know their favorite color? Do we know what they like to do?\u2014how they were raised? Or is the basis of our whole understanding of this person just their sexuality? People are much more complex then who they are attracted to, so our evangelism should be the same. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Your book title says <em>Gay Girl<\/em>; and yet, you say, \u201cThat\u2019s not my identity.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Right; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Again, I\u2019m going to press in on this: \u201cWhat <em>is<\/em> your identity?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>I\u2019m a Christian\u2014I\u2019m black; I\u2019m a woman; I\u2019m a mother; but I think my main\/primary identity is: \u201cI am a Christian.\u201d I love 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, where Paul is saying that neither an idolater, those who practice homosexuality\u2014notice he didn\u2019t say, \u201chomosexuals\u201d\u2014those who practice homosexuality, sexually immoral\u2014they will not inherit the kingdom of God. \u201cBut such were some of you. You were washed; you were sanctified; you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.\u201d He talks about those sins in the past tense. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m going to do the same thing; that\u2019s why the subtitle says: <em>The Story of Who I Was, and Who God Has Always Been. <\/em>For me, I refuse to identify myself by my temptations; but rather identify myself by what Christ has done for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, there are Christian colleges and universities, where they go, \u201cYes; we couldn\u2019t invite Jackie Hill Perry come speak to our\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>No, no; I know some of them; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And there are students at those universities who find you subversive and problematic\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014at Christian universities.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes! I feel as if people\u2019s compassion is trumping their convictions or changing their convictions\u2014you know?\u2014where, in the name of compassion, we feel as if we have to loosen up our grip on what the Scriptures have to say to be loving\u2014when that\u2019s <em>not<\/em> loving; that\u2019s going the opposite way of love. I think some of it is because we don\u2019t see that God is the highest good. If I think you just being with whoever you want to be with is the highest good, then that\u2019s what I\u2019m going to affirm. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut how <em>unkind<\/em> of me to allow you to believe that the freedom to love anybody on earth, as long as this life lasts\u2014which is very short\u2014is the best thing for you <em>when<\/em> we have a whole eternity that we have to spend somewhere. If anything, I need to remind you that even marriage <em>doesn\u2019t last<\/em>. The relationship that lasts is the relationship between Christ and His church. <em>That\u2019s<\/em> the relationship that I want to overemphasize for you\u2014is to love Him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut also, we are a people who are naturally fearful\u2014we fear our tax [exemption] being revoked; we fear people not applying to our schools; we fear being called bigoted; we fear being identified with Jesus. I think God has not given us a spirit of fear. I think we have to be willing to believe that, so that we won\u2019t give into it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>John 1:14, you know, says Jesus was the reflection of the Father; and it says He was full of grace and truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think we\u2019ve got a lot of people today who are full of truth and haven\u2019t figured out the grace thing yet. And I think we got people who are full of grace and have let loose of truth. All of us have to figure out: \u201cHow can we be, in our relationships with others, like Jesus?\u2014not half truth\/half grace\u2014but <em>full<\/em> of grace <em>and<\/em> truth; so that we don\u2019t back down from truth, but we don\u2019t back down from grace either.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Okay; let me ask you this, based on grace and truth: \u201cIf your son or daughter was deciding to marry a person of the same sex, would you go to their wedding?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me ask the expert on that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Toss the hammer! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Expert?\u2014I am not that; I am not that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes?Well, how have you counseled people who have asked you that question?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>One, I\u2019ve affirmed the difficulty of it: \u201cThat is a really <em>hard<\/em> conversation to have,\u201d\u2014and I\u2019m sensitive to that. But <em>my<\/em> conviction is that I would not attend, primarily, because I believe marriage is a glorious thing that God created to show off His gospel. Because of that, to be present at something that is, technically, not a biblical marriage, I believe, is affirmation of the union. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I also think, on the other end, and me having to <em>explain<\/em> why I could not attend is room for a gospel conversation, where it\u2019s: \u201cThis is God...\u201d \u201cThis is why He made marriage...\u201d \u201cThis is what marriage is supposed to be; and I have to honor Him, even if that means our relationship has some tension\/has some weirdness. I don\u2019t want there to be weirdness; I don\u2019t want there to be tension,\u201d\u2014being honest\u2014\u201cI want to go, because I don\u2019t want you to think that I don\u2019t love you; but I can\u2019t.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You said that\u2019s a matter of personal conviction. I think there\u2019s space here for us to look at this situation and go, \u201cThis is a hard, sober question; and you have to, before God, wrestle this to the ground, and say, \u2018What is it that God would have me do in this situation?\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d double check your\u2014because you\u2019re going to lean in one of two directions. I would say: \u201cOkay; it\u2019s my natural bent to lean this way\u2014lean in the grace direction,\u201d or \u201c\u2026lean in the truth direction.\u201d I think you have to look and say, \u201cIf that\u2019s my natural bent, I need to really fully embrace the other part of that and see, \u2018Why am I coming to the conclusion I\u2019m coming to?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I wanted to get to the point, where you started looking at a guy and going, \u201cHe looks good to me!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: \u201c<\/strong>He looks good to me.\u201d [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Tell us about <em>that<\/em> relationship\u2014with your husband now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>The thing with Preston is\u2014when we met, we met at a poetry show. I was doing a poem about my testimony as an ex-lesbian; he was doing his poem about how he used to sleep with everything that can walk and had lip gloss. We met, you know, with all of our stuff out on the table. He was out here; I was like out here. We were like, \u201cHey, we should be friends.\u201d At that time, I was a believer for maybe six months, so I was <em>not<\/em> interested in him\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>\u2014in the least bit. But over the course of three years, we were just friends. He lived in Chicago; I lived in L.A. for a time. I started to have an affection for him that I didn\u2019t know what to do with. I thought, \u201cMaybe I\u2019m just bored,\u201d\u2014I had nobody to text in a long time; [Laughter] I hadn\u2019t been in a relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s why we started dating, too; I was bored! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yeah! Because, you know, you\u2019ve got friends\u2014and they\u2019re texting everybody\u2014and it is just like you\u2019re in movies alone. It\u2019s like, \u201cMan, I just want to text someone.\u201d That\u2019s what I thought; but I told the woman that was discipling me, \u201cI think I like Preston, but I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s the devil. I don\u2019t know\u2026\u201d [Laughter] This was serious\u2014like, \u201cI don\u2019t know what to do.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>She said, \u201cJust keep praying about it.\u201d For a <em>year<\/em>, I just continued to pray, hoping that the affections would wane in some way; and they never did\u2014they just kept increasing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinally, I just told God\u2014I said: \u201cGod, I don\u2019t know what Your plan is for me and Preston; but if it is Your plan for us to be friends, then give me the self-control to treat him like a brother and not a crush. But if it\u2019s Your plan for us to be together, then put it on his heart to pursue me.\u201d He calls me a week later! He says: \u201cHey, I feel like God is calling me to pursue you. I like you; do you like me?\u201d I said, \u201cYes; I do.\u201d He was shocked, and there we go! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the thing is my attraction to him took time. I was attracted to his character first. I was attracted to his intentionality, his consistency, his intelligence, his mind, his creativity. But with that, as we started to grow in intimacy with each other, is when I then became attracted to all that he was, which includes him being a man. It\u2019s taken time, but it\u2019s happened. I think the distinction is\u2014I\u2019m not attracted to men in general; I\u2019m attracted to <em>a<\/em> man\u2014the man that God has called me to be with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, again, we\u2019ve been listening to a conversation with Jackie Hill Perry, the author of a book called <em>Gay Girl, Good God<\/em>. What great insights on the whole issue of understanding your identity: who you are; who God created you to be, and embracing that and living that out. I just think that\u2019s so desperate in our culture today. We need to hear these messages.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think God has raised up Jackie Hill Perry in this time. It\u2019s a time and a culture of confusion. Nobody seems to know the answers; and she brings God\u2019s Word in a very specific way because of her experiences, as a person. I really believe God is using her to bring answers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> She has a voice that is powerful, because she\u2019s been there. She can say things that some of us couldn\u2019t say. I love that she is so honest; I love her theology; I love her boldness; and I love her vulnerability.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It was fun to be able to ask her questions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think listeners will really appreciate\u2014you appreciated her book. I remember you saying to her: \u201c\u2026beautifully-written book\u201d as well as being \u201ca compelling story.\u201d We\u2019ve got copies of Jackie\u2019s book, <em>Gay Girl, Good God<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Our offices are closed today, because of the holiday; so the best way to order is online. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, who is with us. He\u2019s been listening back to these conversations with Jackie Hill Perry, and this is powerful stuff.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David: <\/strong>Yes!Wow, Bob! There is so much that is helpful today, but the core of this conversation comes down to knowing who we are in Christ. Our identity is that we are a new creation; and as Jackie said, we aren\u2019t defined by what we are tempted by and we aren\u2019t defined by successes or failures. We are defined by Jesus and His performance on our behalf and <em>His<\/em> opinion of us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s so good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David: <\/strong>We\u2019re going to have successes and failures\u2014as a husband or a wife\/as moms and dads\u2014as ambassadors of Christ, trying to have an impact in our communities. There will be good days and bad days. But as Henri Nouwen said, \u201cIf you know you are the Beloved of God, you can live with an enormous amount of success or an enormous amount of failure without losing your identity; because your identity is that you are the Beloved.\u201d Let\u2019s live out our identity of being the Beloved today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; absolutely. Thank you, David. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne final note before we\u2019re done here today, on the 4<sup>th<\/sup> of July\u2014when it\u2019s warm and sunny, most places, outside\u2014and a lot of people enjoying a holiday today. How would you like to be somewhere where it is warm and sunny?\u2014except it\u2019s Valentine\u2019s Week\u2014and most places, it\u2019s cold or snowy; but you\u2019re in the sunshine and in the warmth? What I\u2019m talking about is the 2020 <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage cruise that FamilyLife will be hosting, Valentine\u2019s Week of 2020.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re at the point where we\u2019re either completely sold out or we\u2019ve got a handful of staterooms left. I\u2019m not sure exactly what that number is at this point. But I do know this\u2014there\u2019s one cabin available that\u2019s not for sale, because we\u2019re going to be giving a stateroom to a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener. We\u2019ll cover the cost of your airfare for you and your spouse, your cabin\/your stateroom, and we\u2019ll put you up in the hotel the night before the cruise. We\u2019ll take care of all of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s how you qualify. You sign up, as a couple, for a workout plan. This is a relationship workout we\u2019ve got planned for you\u2014this is so that you, as a couple, can strengthen your marriage. In fact, it\u2019s called \u201cThe Stronger Forever Marriage Workout.\u201d When you sign up, we\u2019ll send you the workout details. We\u2019ll send you some emails to prompt you during the next several weeks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou sign up for the workout. You do some of the workout and one of you\u2014one couple\u2014we\u2019re going to draw your names, and you\u2019ll be our guests on the 2020 <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise. There is no purchase necessary to enter. The contest began July 1, 2019; it ends on August 30, 2019. Official rules can be found at FamilyLIfe.com\/StrongerForever. We\u2019ll look forward to seeing one lucky couple on the 2020 <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope you can join us back tomorrow when we\u2019re going to hear a remarkable story from a woman who was told, at one point, that she had what the doctor said was a Christopher Reeve-level injury. They said she would be in a wheelchair throughout the rest of her life. That\u2019s not exactly what\u2019s happened for Katherine Clark. We\u2019ll hear her story tomorrow, so I hope you can join us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/305131","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305131"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305131"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305131"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305131"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=305131"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=305131"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=305131"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}