{"id":305105,"date":"2019-06-25T06:00:05","date_gmt":"2019-06-25T10:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/becoming-like-him\/"},"modified":"2019-06-25T06:00:05","modified_gmt":"2019-06-25T10:00:05","slug":"becoming-like-him","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/becoming-like-him\/","title":{"rendered":"Becoming Like Him"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Non-Christians often give Christians a bad rap. Do we deserve it? Pastor Scott Sauls admits a lot of damage has been done in the name of Christ, and it&#8217;s time we changed that and he has some suggestions.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-06-25.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:31:57","filesize":"29.25M","filesize_raw":"30668858","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2867,2821,2827],"tags":[4336,5937,4299,4597,5060,6663,4291,6456,4002,2639],"podcast_series":[8284],"cwp_profile":[3442],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305105","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-church-involvement","category-reaching-out","category-repentance","tag-christian-worldview","tag-cultural-christianity","tag-faith","tag-following-christ","tag-growing-in-your-faith","tag-irresistible-faith","tag-jesus","tag-love-your-neighbor","tag-reaching-out","tag-sharing-your-faith","podcast_series-irresistible-faith","cwp_profile-scott-sauls","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305105\/becoming-like-him","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305105\/becoming-like-him","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Lkdn3EZZ8x\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/becoming-like-him\/\">Becoming Like Him<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/becoming-like-him\/embed\/#?secret=Lkdn3EZZ8x\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Becoming Like Him&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Lkdn3EZZ8x\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Non-Christians often give Christians a bad rap. Do we deserve it? Pastor Scott Sauls admits a lot of damage has been done in the name of Christ, and it's time we changed that and he has some suggestions.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-06-25.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>With family members, or friends, people at work, people at church, are you more focused on the things that separate you and divide you? Pastor Scott Sauls says maybe we should spend more time celebrating those things we have in common.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>It\u2019s almost like everybody has to wait until after they\u2019re dead before other people will play the highlight reel of their life. Why don\u2019t we start cultivating the practice of playing the highlight reel of one another\u2019s lives while we\u2019re still alive? We talk about doing that with our children; how about doing that with all of God\u2019s children, as well? Then, when that moment comes where somebody is stuck\u2014somebody does injure somebody else\u2014that conversation can be had without it feeling like, \u201cWell, wait; why do you <em>only<\/em> come to me when you have a problem with me?\u201d\u2014right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, June 25<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. How would our relationships be different if we spent more time celebrating what we have in common instead of criticizing one another? We\u2019ll talk more about having an irresistible faith today with Scott Sauls. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I was just sitting here, thinking I was going to ask you guys if it was ever hard\u2014when your kids were at home\/you were raising your kids\u2014if it was ever hard to get them up and get them to church on Sunday; but I guess\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You would be asking that to me, solely; wouldn\u2019t you? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Why do you say that?\u2014I wasn\u2019t there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>He\u2019s the pastor!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So he\u2019s gone\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and the job of getting the boys to church is all on you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And our boys were perfect, so they <em>jumped<\/em> right out: [Laughter] \u201cLet\u2019s go to church and hear Dad preach! I can\u2019t wait to hear him talk!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That wasn\u2019t true. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If you\u2019re talking to a young mom today, who just says: \u201cSunday kills me. I mean, half the time, we don\u2019t go; because by the time we\u2019re all ready to go, it\u2019s 15 minutes after when the service is supposed to start.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right; you have fighting, getting ready\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; what\u2019s your advice to her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I would say it\u2019s hard to get there, but it\u2019s so worth it. It\u2019s worth it for more than just what you\u2019re hearing from the sermon or from the kids\u2019 classes. It\u2019s creating an atmosphere and a culture in your home, saying: \u201cThis matters\u2014God\u2019s Word\/God\u2019s community\u2014that matters to us,\u201d and \u201cWe\u2019re going to be a part of it, because the community of Christ changes lives; and we need it for the rest of our lives.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would add this\u2014we\u2019re joking, you know, about getting them there\u2014but we did, as parents, as they grew up, we knew the value of anything is getting them around peers and community would change their life as much or more than we would.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, you guys know the reason I\u2019m bringing this up is because we\u2019re talking this week about irresistible faith\u2014what that looks like; how we can be the kinds of people in this world that people will look at and say, \u201cThat looks like Jesus, and I\u2019m drawn to the Jesus I see in you,\u201d which, I know, is a passion for you guys.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have Scott Sauls joining us this week. Scott, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Scott is a pastor in Nashville\u2014he pastors Christ Presbyterian Church. He\u2019s an author\/a speaker; he\u2019s written a book called <em>Irresistible Faith<\/em>\u2014and this subject of how we become the kinds of people and how we become the kind of community of people that the world looks at and goes, \u201cThere\u2019s something about you\u2026\u201d That\u2019s what\u2019s at the heart of this book, and you think that\u2019s missing from the conversations we\u2019re having in the church today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>I certainly think it can be more amplified in the conversations that we\u2019re having today. Everything in our part of the world\u2014not just around the church, but in the culture\u2014just feels so politicized. It\u2019s just become such a distracting thing to what the mission of the church and of Christians ought to be about in the world. I wouldn\u2019t say the conversation\u2019s not there; I think there are plenty of people having the conversation about being fruitful, impactful, life-giving\u2014you know, neighbors in the places where we live, work, and play\u2014but I think that conversation needs to be amplified a bit more. We need to be more public with our faith.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019ve asked people, for years\u2014I\u2019ve said, \u201cIf you were to go out and do a survey on the street at the mall\u2014you said, \u2018Fill in the blank here: \u201cChristians are the most <em>blank<\/em> people in the world,\u201d and you can put any word you want into that blank.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I\u2019ve asked that question, I said: \u201cWhat if the words that went in there were the fruit of the Spirit? What if people would say, \u2018You know, Christians are the most loving people in the world,\u2019 \u2018\u2026the most joyful people in the world,\u2019 \u2018\u2026most peaceful,\u2019 \u2018\u2026the most patient\u2026\u2019 I mean, you can just go through the list. What if those were the words people were picking up on?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, I love that. That would be a great goal; wouldn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014which is what it\u2019s supposed to be, because that\u2019s the fruit of the Spirit; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014we should exhibit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You say that this is not just a project for us, as individual Christians, who need to learn how to abide, and how to dig deep into who Jesus is and manifest the fruit of the Spirit in our lives; but this is a project for us, as a community of followers of Jesus. The whole second part of your book is about the kind of community we need to be. What do we need to be that\u2019s different than who we are today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>The phrase that comes to mind is: \u201c\u2026more shy about ourselves\/more shy about our agendas and more boastful about Jesus and what He\u2019s done for us.\u201d I think that a lot of us, in the Christian community, have drunk the Kool-Aid\u2014you know, we\u2019ve just whiffed the secondhand smoke of worldliness, which leads to hostility, and bickering, and gossip, and slander. We\u2019ve not whiffed the aroma of Christ, which leads us, not only to be the best kinds of friends, but the best kinds of enemies. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, the Bible talks about\/Christ talks about loving your enemies\u2014and praying and blessing\u2014looking for opportunities to bless, even those who injure you\/even those who persecute you. The last two beatitudes focus on that. I don\u2019t think that that is something that we\u2019re known for; but I think that the climate that we\u2019re in, where everybody\u2019s mad about something, actually\u2014perhaps, at least, in my lifetime\u2014presents us with the best opportunity and the lowest-hanging fruit that we\u2019ve ever had, in my lifetime, to respond to insults with gentleness. Surprise the world with a gentle answer that turns away wrath, as the proverb says.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>One of the things that our community can provide that goes beyond what we can provide, as individuals, is we can provide a context for relationship. You make the point\u2014we live in a desperately lonely time. To have a welcoming community of people, who would say, \u201cCome join us,\u201d we\u2019re tapping into something in the culture today that people are desperate for.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; you know, the church, of all places\u2014I mean, the Scriptures talk about how God puts the lonely in families. It talks about how the barren woman, the woman who\u2019s never had a husband or never been able to have children\u2014in the community of God\u2014can have as many children, beyond her wildest dreams. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, that\u2019s a different experience than having your own biological children; but the point being that God\u2019s answer to loneliness\/God\u2019s answer to the one and only bad thing that God said about paradise\u2014that: \u201cIt\u2019s not good for human beings to be alone,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s not good. Even though Eve was the, case in point, answer for Adam, I think Eve was a representative answer. I don\u2019t think marriage is the answer; I think community is the answer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>On a practical level\u2014because most of the people coming to your church, I think, are probably married with kids?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; I\u2019d say probably there are more married people than unmarried people in our church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right; so how do those two distinctly different subgroups mingle and become, not just distinctly different subgroups, but a part of one body?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>We emphasize the importance of cross-pollinating, generationally, and cross-pollinating, according to marital status. Single people need married people, and vice versa. We\u2019ve seen, gradually, more and more traction, where there\u2019s this intentionality that\u2019s developed. You\u2019ll see small groups pop up, where you have three couples in their 60s, and five single people in their 20s and 30s, and three couples who are married with children\u2014intentionally. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have people, actually, who have gathered around diversity in different ways, as well. We have people, who want difference to rub off on them; but you have to work for it; you have to be intentional about it; you have to model it in leadership; and you have to pray for it, as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I thought, in your section on community in the book, I thought it was such a beautiful picture. I\u2019m looking at your title, and it was such\u2014practicing transparency\/kindness\u2014what\u2019s that look like? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you just hit on something else I\u2019d rather talk about; because I thought the way you wrote about this was really beautiful and not, often, talked about. You call it \u201cpracticing soul surgery on one another.\u201d You share several stories in the book of people saying to you hard things for you to hear and, yet, think you needed to hear to make you better. Talk about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Practicing transparency and performing soul surgery on one another\u2014that relates primarily to Galatians, Chapter 6, where Paul writes, \u201cIf any of you is caught in a transgression\u201d\u2014he\u2019s talking about a pattern here, not like a one-off \u201cI goofed up,\u201d but a pattern\u2014\u201cIf any among you is caught in transgression, let you who are spiritual restore him gently,\u201d\u2014you know, and make sure it\u2019s gently\u2014\u201clest you too be tempted.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMatthew 18: \u201cIf a brother sins against you, go and show him his faults,\u201d and so on. Bring in a very private subset of community in the situation if you can\u2019t get through to him in private, or if you can\u2019t reach agreement, and so on. But that\u2019s all designed as one of God\u2019s ways to transform us more and more into the likeness of Jesus Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYes, He gives us our Bibles; yes, He gives us great preaching and great programs, like this one, to sharpen us; but we are not meant to grow in Christ in isolation, with a self-managed curriculum that we have control over. Submitting to Scripture is a huge part of that; the parts of Scripture that we should be digging into and reading the most are the parts that we don\u2019t underline, not the ones that we do. [Laughter] Those are the ones we should gravitate toward most, because those are probably the ones we resist the most; and that\u2019s where we need to change the most; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the other piece, outside of the parts of Scripture that we\u2019re uncomfortable with\u2014and by the way, it\u2019s good to be uncomfortable with parts of Scripture, otherwise you\u2019re not really in a relationship with God. Any relationship, you\u2019re going to get pushed back on. If it\u2019s a real relationship, you\u2019re going to be challenged to grow. In normal, ordinary, especially Christian relationships, we are meant to sharpen one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think our American-ness and the climate of where it\u2019s so easy to get offended and so easy to offend somebody, we\u2019re sensitive to this; we\u2019re <em>hyper-sensitive<\/em> to criticism. Part of that\u2019s the culture we\u2019re in\/part of that\u2019s the human soul\u2014you know, where we\u2019re made in the image of a God, whose very existence is to be glorified, and honored, and praised\u2014so there\u2019s a very legitimate part of us\u2014that part of you that loves being appreciated and affirmed is the image of God in you. It\u2019s not a defect.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut at the same time, when we idolize our own image\u2014when our own image and reputation is the most important thing\/when being right is more important than being humble and transformed\u2014that\u2019s where we need to figure out a way to let others speak into our lives to sharpen us and to look at those more difficult conversations, not as if somebody\u2019s coming at us with a sword, but rather maybe the Lord, through them, coming to us with a scalpel. Surgery\u2019s painful, but it also promotes health. It also gets rid of things that aren\u2019t healthy, and it enhances life once you heal from a well-crafted surgery. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tObviously, if you\u2019re giving the surgery, don\u2019t butcher somebody with the scalpel. Cut with care\u2014with gentleness and respect\u2014right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That really does take practice\u2014and time with God\u2014to learn how to do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014and trust.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; I was reading\u2014I love this, because this is what you\u2019re talking about in the book. You\u2019re talking about reversing the negative verdicts. You say one way we can hear the Father\u2019s voice more clearly is to practice speaking the truth in love with each other\u2014Ephesians 4\u2014and that can be a very delicate place to walk. It\u2019s hard to know\u2014it\u2019s hard to do in a marriage relationship. I feel like I need to go to God and ask Him: \u201cHow should I say this? Should I say that? What does that look like?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>In the church, what are some of the principles that we can put in that? I mean, I\u2019m assuming this is with people that we love and that we know that we\u2019re going to speak truth in love and, maybe, not the stranger that just walked in the door. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>That is such a great question. So, \u201cSticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me.\u201d Whoever said that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014is a liar!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>\u2014has probably never had a conversation!\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you know? Because <em>Psychology Today<\/em> actually came out with its own version of that: \u201cSticks and stones may break my bones, but words can cut me deeply.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Words can also be incredibly life-giving as well. You know, there\u2019s this old Scottish preacher, now with the Lord, named Robert Murray M\u2019Cheyne, who once said, \u201cFor every one look you take at your sin, take ten looks at Jesus.\u201d I think that there\u2019s a principle in there that plays into our conversation; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe all talk about how: \u201cOh, you have this love language\u2026\u201d and \u201cI have this love language\u2026\u201d and \u201cHe has this one\u2026\u201d and \u201cShe has this love language\u2026\u201d We are all words of affirmation people. [Laughter] There\u2019s no such thing as a person who\u2019s <em>not<\/em> a words of affirmation person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So true!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>If somebody says they\u2019re not a words of affirmation person, just criticize them and see how they react; right? [Laughter] Say, \u201c<em>See<\/em>, you are a words of affirmation person!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that we earn the right to offer constructive feedback by what we, in our community, call \u201cliving eulogies\u201d; right? Why do we wait until somebody dies before we say all kinds of kind, wonderful things about them? It\u2019s almost like everybody has to wait until after they\u2019re dead before other people will play the highlight reel of their life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Why don\u2019t we start cultivating the practice of playing the highlight reel of one another\u2019s lives while we\u2019re still alive? Scripture says: \u201cEncourage one another.\u201d Encourage is a word that means to put courage into. \u201cEncourage one another and build each other up.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat cultivates that environment you were talking about, just a minute ago, where I feel so protected, and so cared-for, and so much of the love of Christ coming to me through you through those deposits that you put into my life. You know, we talk about doing that with our children; how about doing that with all of God\u2019s children that we\u2019re surrounded by, as well, of whom we\u2019re a part? Then, when that moment comes where somebody is caught\/somebody is stuck\u2014somebody does injure somebody else\u2014that conversation can be had without it feeling like, \u201cWell wait; why do you <em>only<\/em> come to me when you have a problem with me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right; and they can\u2019t say, \u201cYou don\u2019t know me,\u201d because we <em>do<\/em> know them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I have a group of guys back in Detroit\u2014we\u2019ve been together in a small group men\u2019s deal; and now, our wives and kids\u2014for almost 20 years. Several years ago, one of the best things we ever did\u2014I don\u2019t know if other people do it the way we did it, but here\u2019s what we did\u2014we said, \u201cLet\u2019s give each other a gift.\u201d We defined a gift as \u201ca blind spot Scott doesn\u2019t know,\u201d \u201c\u2026Dave doesn\u2019t know,\u201d but we all know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>This is coming after you guys have <em>loved<\/em> each other\/encouraged each other.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, decades\u2014decades of relationship; trust built up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re like: \u201cWe\u2019re going to what?! You call that a gift?\u201d But it\u2019s the kind of thing: \u201cWhen Dave walks out of the room, we all roll our eyes because we all know this about him and he doesn\u2019t seem to know it.\u201d Everybody\u2014we all have them! Everybody has a blind spot; that\u2019s why it\u2019s called a blind spot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I remember when my night came. It was like: \u201cHey, Dave, go out in the kitchen. We\u2019ll call you in when we\u2019re done talking about you.\u201d I remember I was in the kitchen a lot longer than the other guys when they were asked to go out. I\u2019m like, \u201cWow, they\u2019re talking a long time about me.\u201d I came back in; they would give me one or two things\u2014and trust me, I didn\u2019t want to hear it\u2014but they were right on. It was soul surgery. Then, the rest of the evening was, \u201cHere\u2019s what we love about you.\u201d So it was affirmation\/affirmation, but there was that one or two things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember coming home. Everything they told me my wife had told me 20 times before, and I <em>never<\/em> heard it. But when those guys said it, it sharpened me to become like Christ. It was like, \u201cWhat a gift!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Then you go home to your wife and you say, \u201cI just got the greatest insight about myself!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>She\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019ve been telling you that for 20 years!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Exactly. [Laughter] But I finally heard it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Your wife did some soul surgery with you at a dinner\u2014you talk about this. What\u2014were you railing on somebody? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Okay; so the context is\u2014one of my hot buttons, when I preach about community, is how toxic gossip is. The phrase I use for gossip is \u201cpornography of the mouth.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>It\u2019s a way to objectify somebody else\/get a cheap thrill at no personal cost or commitment to yourself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis was the Wednesday night before Easter. My wife and I are out on a date, and there\u2019s somebody that I\u2019m frustrated with. I just start\u2014I\u2019m just, you know\u2014sleep-deprived?\u2014I don\u2019t know; just sinful heart\u2014I just start going off on this person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe\u2019s looking at me for about 30 seconds, just lets me go, and then she grabs my hand. She says, \u201cScott, you know that you shouldn\u2019t have said any of that to me.\u201d You know, when the most important person in your life, who knows you better than anybody, simultaneously takes your hand and gently, not in a scolding way, but gently says: \u201cYou need to start taking your own medicine. You need to start listening to your own preaching. Easter\u2019s in a few days; [Laughter] so maybe, a little bit of repenting to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope I don\u2019t need another moment like that, but I\u2019ve had a lot of those moments in my marriage. Like you, I have friends around me, including people\u2014I guess everybody\u2019s below me on the org chart at church\u2014but we have a no consequence\/no negative consequence policy for challenging people up the org chart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Speaking the truth in love.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Absolutely. And people do it, too; they do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019s good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There\u2019s a phrase I\u2019d heard from Paul David Tripp, years ago, that was one of those that just locked on. I repeat this over and over again at our church. He said: \u201cThe community of\u00a0 faith\/the Christian community needs to be a place where there are Christ-centered, grace-based, intentionally intrusive, redemptive relationships.\u201d I love that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tChrist-centered: \u201cSo what\u2019s our focus here?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s all about Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGrace-based: \u201cSo everything\u2019s done in the case of understanding grace: \u2018I\u2019m a recipient of grace; I\u2019m a dispenser of grace.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIntentionally intrusive\u2014and that\u2019s where the eyebrows go up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cWhat do you mean, intentionally intrusive?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Did you ever hear him [Paul David Tripp] tell the story about his wife confronting him in his season of being really angry?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; tell it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>I love this story; and it terrifies me too, because he\u2019s telling my story. He said there was a season in his life, as a pastor, where he was just angry at everything all the time and, yet, puts on the mask at church. He\u2019s the hero to his congregants and angry at everybody else in private. One day, his wife and he are getting after it. He\u2019s like, \u201cYou know that 95 percent of the women in our church would <em>love<\/em> to be married to a guy like me.\u201d She says, \u201cWell, I guess I\u2019m in the five percent.\u201d [Laughter] That is truth in love!\u2014that\u2019s Galatians 6 stuff\u2014right there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You go back through the Christ-centered, grace-based, intentionally intrusive\u2014which means we give each other permission to do what you said, \u201cWhat are my blind spots?\u201d\u2014and then redemptive: \u201cWhat\u2019s the goal here?\u201d It\u2019s so that we can be more like Jesus. When we\u2019re more like Jesus, what we\u2019re presenting, both as individuals and as a community of faith, is more irresistible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019d just add this: \u201cFor somebody to be able to do soul surgery on you\/with you, you have to give them access.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cIt\u2019s on us to invite them.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I would travel with the Lions [football team], they\u2019d give me an all-access pass on all these stadiums, which means you can go anywhere. I\u2019ve handed that to these guys\u2014literally, that pass\u2014and said, \u201cHere, guys\u2014all access.\u201d I\u2019m not giving that to everybody in my church; no way!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And no other woman would get that, besides me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, if listeners are interested in exploring what an irresistible faith looks like, we\u2019re making available copies of Scott\u2019s book, by that title, this week to listeners who can help support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. This ministry exists to try to provide practical biblical help and hope for your marriage\/your family to figure out how we live, as Christians, in our marriages, in our families, in our culture today. I think Scott\u2019s book gives us great guidance for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, this is the kind of book that, as I\u2019ve said before, parents and teens could read a couple paragraphs together and have a good conversation around the dinner table about how we live out our faith. The book is our gift to you when you support the ongoing work of this ministry. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> exists because listeners in your community made it possible for you to hear today\u2019s program. They sent a donation so that we could be on this station, or on your phone, on the podcast. However you listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, it\u2019s your fellow listeners who have made today\u2019s program possible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re asking <em>you<\/em> to make this program possible for others in the days ahead; and you can do that by going to FamilyLifeToday.com to make a donation online, or you can call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, ask for your copy of the book, <em>Irresistible Faith<\/em>. It\u2019s our thank-you gift to you when you support the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and we look forward to hearing from you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, it\u2019s clear from our conversation today that our faith grows best in community. This is not an individual sport, it\u2019s a team sport we\u2019re involved with. David Robbins, the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is here with us. This is something you\u2019ve learned; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David: <\/strong>Yes; I mean, it\u2019s also the community of our family. I\u2019ve heard it said once that a dysfunctional family is any family with one or more person in it. [Laughter] You know, no family is perfect, because no person is perfect; and no community\u2019s perfect, because no person in that community is perfect.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI do remember a season\u2014this conversation reminded me of about a decade ago, where I learned the difference the hard way\u2014the difference between transparency and vulnerability. Transparency: you share what\u2019s true; you share what\u2019s honest; and you may be held accountable to those things. There\u2019s a big difference in that, which is what I was doing\u2014I was in small groups and community, where there was all sorts of transparent accountability going on. But was I really being vulnerable?\u2014and where things were still in process, giving access to people?\u2014access to speak into my life, taking the risk to really go there and allow someone to speak into deep places in my soul.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToday\u2019s conversation makes me reflect on that and makes me reflect on, today, saying: \u201cAlright; does my marriage, does my family, does the Christian community I\u2019m currently in\u2014do we fully know each other?\u201d and \u201cDo we receive both encouragement and reproof in these relationships, where we give people full access?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to ask myself, and I want to invite <em>you<\/em> to join me in asking God, \u201cDo I have these types of relationships currently in my life?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; \u201cAm I teachable? Am I able to humble myself and to learn from others?\u201d That\u2019s a good reminder. Thank you, David.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, tomorrow, Scott Sauls is going to be back with us again; and we want to talk about the implications of a transformed life for how we interact with people, particularly the less fortunately in our world. I hope you can tune in for that conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/305105","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305105"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305105"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305105"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305105"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=305105"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=305105"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=305105"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}