{"id":305101,"date":"2019-06-24T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2019-06-24T10:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/abiding-in-christ\/"},"modified":"2019-06-24T06:00:04","modified_gmt":"2019-06-24T10:00:04","slug":"abiding-in-christ","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/abiding-in-christ\/","title":{"rendered":"Abiding in Christ"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jesus commands His followers to be great neighbors. Are we? Scott Sauls talks about what it would look like to live so compellingly in our cities that, if we were removed, people would miss us terribly.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-06-24.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:59","filesize":"26.54M","filesize_raw":"27824565","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2867,2821,2827],"tags":[4336,4299,4597,5060,6663,4291,6456,4002,2639],"podcast_series":[8284],"cwp_profile":[3442],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305101","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-church-involvement","category-reaching-out","category-repentance","tag-christian-worldview","tag-faith","tag-following-christ","tag-growing-in-your-faith","tag-irresistible-faith","tag-jesus","tag-love-your-neighbor","tag-reaching-out","tag-sharing-your-faith","podcast_series-irresistible-faith","cwp_profile-scott-sauls","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305101\/abiding-in-christ","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305101\/abiding-in-christ","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"W0DGr41zom\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/abiding-in-christ\/\">Abiding in Christ<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/abiding-in-christ\/embed\/#?secret=W0DGr41zom\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Abiding in Christ&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"W0DGr41zom\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Jesus commands His followers to be great neighbors. Are we? Scott Sauls talks about what it would look like to live so compellingly in our cities that, if we were removed, people would miss us terribly.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-06-24.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Pastor Scott Sauls believes that all of us would be better, both individually and as families, if we started spending more time with people who aren\u2019t exactly like us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>There\u2019s an us-ness to walking with Christ\u2014it\u2019s not me and Christ; it\u2019s not me and my handful of friends that I have stuff in common with and disagree with about nothing\u2014it\u2019s getting into a community of people, ideally, with as much ethnic diversity, or economic diversity, or political diversity, or ideological diversity, or where you are on the org chart diversity so that you can rub against people who have a different life experience and a different understanding to sharpen you and to change you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, June 24<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. Are there some areas where all of us need to be challenged as we think about how we walk with Jesus? Pastor Scott Sauls says, \u201cYes,\u201d and we\u2019ll talk more about it with him today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Tell listeners\u2014when you started a church in Detroit, back three decades ago, what was the burden?\u2014because there were churches there\u2014what was it that you wanted to start? What did you want your church to be? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We had one dream\u2014and we still have the same dream\u2014to reach the guy not going to church\u2014that was it. I was that guy. We just sort of had a dream of the Great Commission being able to be done through a community of people called the church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And why does the 35-year-old guy, who\u2019s not coming to church\u2014why is he not coming to church?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>If he\u2019s anything like me, I thought the church was irrelevant; it just didn\u2019t seem to do anything\u2014it was something I was not attracted to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I didn\u2019t grow up in the church, but I had a <em>view<\/em> of people that went to church. I didn\u2019t feel like they were relatable; and I didn\u2019t feel like, necessarily\u2014this is a broad judgment and not anyone specific\u2014but I felt like, \u201cOh, there\u2019s nothing about them that\u2019s really attractional.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014like if someone said, \u201cWouldn\u2019t\u00a0 you want to be like them?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like\u2014\u201cThat\u2019s the <em>last<\/em> thing I want to be.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>To be truthful; yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s tied right into what we\u2019re going to be talking about today, because we are going to be talking about what an irresistible faith looks like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019m excited! I <em>love<\/em> this topic; I love this book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes! Dave was talking about it last night. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, yes! This is very important!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Scott Sauls is joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Scott, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Thanks for having me back, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019re excited about his subject as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>I am!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Would you agree with their characterization that most people look at church folks and think: \u201cI don\u2019t want to be like them,\u201d and \u201cWhat they\u2019re talking about is irrelevant\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>I think it\u2019s an accurate statement that most people don\u2019t want to be like the portrayals that they see of Christians.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s a good word.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>But I think there\u2019s also some really magnificent things going on, and done, and led by Christian people and people who identify as followers of Christ that just don\u2019t get the press that the more embarrassing stories do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Here\u2019s the question as we dive in\u2014because your whole book, <em>Irresistible Faith: Becoming the Kind of Christian the World Can\u2019t Resist, <\/em>I think what I am about to say you\u2019re going to say: \u201cI would agree with that. We\u2019re doing a lousy job as being ambassadors for Christ.\u201d In general, the evangelical community in America\u2014if you said, \u201cThis is what it means to be a follower of Christ,\u201d a lot of people would go, \u201cIf that\u2019s what it means, I\u2019m out.\u201d At the same time, Jesus was hated and mocked. He wasn\u2019t the kind of person the world couldn\u2019t resist, there were a lot of people who put Him to death.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Right! Well, publishers come up with the sub-titles. [Laughter] It took me a while to come around to the sub-title, myself, because of the same question. But I\u2019ve come around to the sub-title because, everywhere you look in the Scripture and also through history, you see a certain <em>kind<\/em> of person, who is put off by Christ and put off by the kinds of things Christ came to be about and bring about in the lives of His followers; namely, people in power, who feel threatened by movements that are becoming more popular than them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re seeing this happening in China right now, for instance, where the state\u2014even though they have all the power, all the resources, all the publicity channels\u2014they\u2019re cracking down on house churches because they can\u2019t stop the spread of love that flows from the gospel through the churches in China. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was the case in the first century, as well. Caesar was opposed to the church because the church said, \u201cJesus is Lord.\u201d The irony of that is that, because Jesus was Lord, it made Christians the best citizens of Rome. They took care of Rome\u2019s poor better than Rome did, so that\u2019s the rub. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, when you look at the sub-title, <em>Become the Kind of Christian the World Can\u2019t <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Resist<\/em>, we\u2018ve got to look at the kinds of people, who couldn\u2019t resist being around Jesus\u2014that was people, who didn\u2019t feel like they belonged in the religious communities\u2014to your point, Dave, earlier\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right! Right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>\u2014and people, who thought the religious communities were irrelevant to their lives; and all of a sudden, Zacchaeus, the crook, discovers he can be forgiven and have friends. Or the prostitute, in Luke 7, discovers she can actually experience real love, that\u2019s not dirty, but that\u2019s pure and beautiful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou go on, and on, and on\u2014you go to Luke, Chapter 15, before the parable of the loving Father, who loves both the Pharisee son and the prodigal son and welcomes them both\/ invites them both in. That parable begins with the statement: \u201cThe Pharisees\u201d\u2014the religious people\u2014\u201cwere grumbling because all of the sinners\u201d\u2014all of them\u2014\u201cwere drawn to Jesus, and they couldn\u2019t get enough of what He was saying.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I can totally relate to that. I didn\u2019t grow up in church, but I remembered my mom did hand my sister and [me] a Bible. I think I was 12 years old. We started reading it together at night\u2014we read the New Testament\u2014we read the Gospel of John\u2014was where we started.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will <em>never<\/em> forget\u2014my sister and I both had abuse in our backgrounds\u2014and I remember reading it and being so drawn to this man, Jesus. I wanted that\u2014I didn\u2019t even know what it was\u2014but I wanted that. I thought: \u201cI would follow Him,\u201d \u201cI would walk with Him,\u201d because of the way He treated others. He <em>was<\/em> compelling; He <em>was<\/em> irresistible to so many.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; Jesus says: \u201cYou\u2019re the light of the world. You\u2019re a city on a hill. Let your light shine.\u201d I think we\u2019ve been too shy about the <em>amazing<\/em> things that the movement of Jesus has brought into the world. Think about all the hospitals that begin with the word, Saint, founded by believers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m reading, right now, the biography of John Newton, who was the primary influence of William Wilberforce, who almost single-handedly convinced Parliament to end slavery. You could go on and on and on\u2014some of the world\u2019s top scientists in history\u2014faithful believers doing wonderful work. Those stories don\u2019t get told. I think part of it is we don\u2019t do our part in making sure those stories get told. I think that the l4ight is hidden under a bushel in some respects.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You saw the survey results, recently, that said\u2014I think the number was\u201446 percent of Millennials think it is wrong to try to persuade someone to become a follower of Christ; did you see that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Fifty percent of Millennials; yes\u2014is what I saw from\u2014are you talking about the Barna survey?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The Barna\u2014here\u2019s what it said\u2014they said: \u201cFollowing Christ is important. It\u2019s life transformational. It\u2019s a part of what my faith is,\u201d and \u201cI think it\u2019s wrong to try to convert somebody.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can understand why there is this awkwardness in our culture today to not want to be divisive and polarize.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes; I think there are a lot of factors beneath that. One is that the creed of western American culture, in particular, is \u201cexpressive individualism,\u201d which basically means the only wrong thing that you can do is evangelize. The irony there is that\u2019s a form of evangelism. I can\u2019t say that \u201cJesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life,\u201d then what you\u2019re saying is that \u201cPluralism\/religious pluralism is the way, the truth, and the life.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: \u201c<\/strong>That\u2019s your creed of your life\u201d; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>You and I can have completely opposing views on something and neither of us can be declared wrong\u2014but that\u2019s where we\u2019re at. I think that one of the things that Christians in the church\u2014we need to really be intentional about\u2014is recovering that story of a beautiful narrative of what it means to live, as a follower of Christ, and as collective followers of Christ in the world. Because Millennials, to their credit, are a movement-oriented generation\u2014they\u2019re a social justice-\/mercy-and-justice-oriented generation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf they see the church leading the way, in the way the first century church was leading the way, in mercy and justice efforts. I mean, by the 3<sup>rd<\/sup> century, A.D. the fabric of Rome was transformed because of believers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I love how you introduce this in your Introduction\u2014it\u2019s such a beautiful picture. I\u2019m going to read to you, and I want you to comment on what you wrote.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You said: \u201dWhat would it look like for us, the church, to become those who lived most beautifully, loved most deeply, and served most faithfully in the places where we live, work and play? What would it look like for us to live so compellingly and lovingly in our neighborhoods, cities and nations that, if we were suddenly removed from the world, our non-believing neighbors would miss us terribly?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow about this one? \u201cWhat would it look like for Christians to become the first place people go to look for comfort when a life-altering diagnosis comes, when anxiety and depression hit, when a child goes astray, when a spouse files for divorce, or when a bread-winner loses a job?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>This is your heartbeat!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: \u201c<\/strong>What would it look like for Christians in the church to be that kind of irresistible community?\u201d Talk about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>I think it would look like 1<sup>st<\/sup> century church in Rome. What it would look like is a transformation that Christ is most certainly capable of\u2014a transformation in the hearts of His people\u2014to begin to think, first, about how others are blessed and enriched by Christ rather than how we can be off to the side in our safe, little cozy places, and Christian ghettos, and protect whatever we have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s pretty audacious to think about what it would take to get to that place. I\u2019m in, and I think that there are actually a lot of people who are!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I am, too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Me, too!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>You would be so\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The starting place for what you\u2019re talking about in the book\u2014at least, what you say is the starting place\u2014is for Christians to learn the art of abiding. I think it\u2019s interesting that that\u2019s where you start; because we would typically say the starting place is the PR side\u2014is: \u201cHow do we <em>project<\/em> better who we are?\u201d But you say we got to make sure we are who we\u2019re supposed to be before we start trying to let our light shine before men.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>What does that look like, and how do we do it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>It\u2019s like the church that has an incredible outreach ministry; but once people get there, nobody shows interest in being their friend. You\u2019ve got to <em>be<\/em> what you\u2019re trying to invite other people into; right? There are no shortcuts to becoming the kind of Christian who abides in Christ and gives off the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, kindness, patience, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness,\u00a0 self-control\u2014there\u2019s no shortcut to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAbiding in Christ, which in my view\u2014that\u2019s just simple stuff\u2014like being in the same local church every week; be part of a community and learn to love and live in a community, long term; and get your nose in Scripture as much as you can on a daily basis; and be a person of prayer\u2014they\u2019re just the simple stuff. And endeavor to be the same person in private as you are in public and the same person in private as you are on social media. Start there, and let\u2019s see what happens. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s interesting\u2014when you begin your book about abiding in the irresistible Christ<em>,<\/em> your first chapter, \u201cBeing Okay with Not Being Okay,\u201d I read it and I\u2019m like: \u201cOh! Here\u2019s a pastor sharing real stuff, honestly\u2014vulnerable stuff.\u201d I\u2019m embarrassed to actually be called a pastor, alongside of you, because you had so many sins in there; [Laughter] because I don\u2019t have any of those; but\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>I\u2019m so ashamed to be in your presence. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You should be!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I live with him, so I can speak the truth. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I find it refreshing because so many Christians, let alone pastors, don\u2019t share the struggle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things you said was, \u201cMan, I thought, by now, I\u2019d be so much farther in my walk with God in terms of transformation.\u201d Talk about that a little bit, because that\u2019s irresistible to people; but we\u2019re afraid to share that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Somebody\u2019s got to go first. It might as well be the person who\u2019s leading. You said it, yourself, at the beginning of the broadcast, Dave\u2014that you, at one point in your life, didn\u2019t go to church;4 because you thought it was irrelevant. What could be more relevant than human struggle? What could be more relevant than saying, \u201cI feel lonely,\u201d more than \u201cI don\u2019t feel lonely\u201d; you know? Taking off the masks, not in a self-indulgent way, but in a way that points to how Christ is the solution, and the community of Christ is the solution to that, and the mission of Christ is the solution to that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe people who have always impacted me the most are the transparent ones and the vulnerable ones. I\u2019m so much of a mess; I\u2019m so much of a disaster\u2014that I\u2019m not able to hide any of this stuff that I write about in Chapter One; so I might as well talk about it; right? Otherwise, it\u2019s just the elephant in the room that everybody knows about and whispers about. Why not just talk about it instead, and cultivate the art of apologizing and asking for forgiveness, and inviting feedback? Isn\u2019t that what Christ invited us to do?\u2014to sharpen each other, as iron sharpens iron; right? We love that verse until we have to apply it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You talk about church engagement being an essential part of developing who we are\u2014abiding. The average young couple today says regular church going is maybe twice a month; it\u2019s not a weekly discipline for a lot of people today. Why is the regular rhythm\/the discipline of\u2014not deciding, on Sunday morning, if you feel like going to church or not today\u2014but saying: \u201cThat\u2019s the default. Of course, that\u2019s what we do every Sunday,\u201d\u2014why is that so big of a deal?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Every time I bring that\u2014just about every time I bring that subject up, I say: \u201cLook; go to another church. If you can only bring yourself to come to this one twice, find one you can go to four or five times a month, depending on how many Sundays are there; because it\u2019s where Jesus Christ says that He\u2019s going to primarily meet His people.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you read the New Testament, this is where a Southern vernacular comes in handy; because if you were to accurately translate the Greek in the New Testament\u2014you probably already know this if you\u2019ve studied Greek; right?\u2014is that almost every single second-person reference in the New Testament is plural. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s actually, \u201cAll y\u2019all!\u201d It\u2019s not just \u201cY\u2019all\u201d; it\u2019s \u201cAll y\u2019all\u201d; right? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>There\u2019s an us-ness to walking with Christ\u2014it\u2019s not me and Christ; it\u2019s not me and my handful of friends that I have stuff in common with and disagree with about nothing. It\u2019s getting into a community of people, ideally, with as much diversity as possible. I know, in some zip codes, it\u2019s very hard to think about ethnic diversity or economic diversity\u2014but where that\u2019s not possible\u2014generational diversity, or political diversity, or ideological diversity, or where you are on the org chart diversity so that you can rub against people, who have a different life experience and a different understanding of this or that subject so that you can be sharpened.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think I talk, in the book, about the sandpaper effect; right? You get two people, who are different\u2014say, two generations\u2014say you\u2019ve got a [62]-year-old and a 23-year-old in your church, talking about politics. You can pretty well surmise where that conversation\u2019s going to go; right? That 62-year-old is good for that 23-year-old and that 23-year-old is just as good for that 62-year-old. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the beginning of their conversation is going to be like two gritty pieces of sandpaper rubbing together. The heat\u2019s going to go up; it\u2019s going to feel awkward\/friction; they\u2019re both going to want to jump because of the awkwardness, or the pain, or the anger they\u2019re feeling, or the offense that they are feeling. But over time, as they continue to engage and stay committed to one another, what happens to both of those pieces of sandpaper? They become smoother; right? And the heat becomes less as they rub together, and they learn from and rub off on one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tC.S. Lewis said, in <em>The Screwtape Letters<\/em>\u2014one of the letters the mentor devil says to the junior devil: \u201cWhatever you do, get this man in church as fast as you can; because when he gets in church, he\u2019s going to notice people sing off key; they have squeaky boots; they have double chins; they\u2019re boring people; some of them are often offensive; they chew too loudly; or whatever; and soon he\u2019ll have nothing to do with the Enemy,\u201d\u2014the Enemy being God in <em>The Screwtape Letters<\/em>; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat Christ wants to say is, \u201cHey; it\u2019s quite the opposite.\u201d By the way, if we don\u2019t like diversity, then we\u2019ve really got to ask ourselves if we want to follow Jesus; because he\u2019s a dark skinned, Middle-eastern Jew, who never spoke a word of English, never hung out with white people\u2014if you\u2019re white like me\u2014was poor and homeless for a good part of His life, did things that <em>all<\/em> political parties would be offended by. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve got to decide: \u201cDo you want Him as your consultant, or do you want to Him as your Lord?\u201d \u201cDo you want Him as your personal assistant, or do you want Him as your Master and King?\u201d \u201cIf you want Him as your Master and King, then you\u2019ve got to look to His church, in whom He lives, collectively, to sharpen you, and to change you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You are talking about the importance of diversity and being with people who aren\u2019t like us. People are going: \u201cThat\u2019s not church. But I\u2019m going to church on Sunday. I\u2019m going with my like-minded friends, who look like me; so being in church every Sunday, that\u2019s not going to give me diversity. If I want diversity, I should go to the bar.\u201d <strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>I would say, \u201cIt should be church.\u201d Also, I think a lot of churches have a lot more diversity in them then we will recognize; because I think we, very superficially, think of diversity almost strictly in terms of ethnic; and ethnic diversity is a very important reality in the body of Christ\u2014every nation, every tribe, every tongue\u2014very important! But there are, also, other forms of diversity that have to be cultivated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, think about it\u2014the very first cross-cultural relationship in the Bible\u2014what was it?\u2014Adam and Eve! Two different chromosome structures coming together; they are there to sharpen one another. Paul writes, in Ephesians, about how the point of marriage is, ultimately, to get one another ready for Christ\u2014to sharpen one another. Personality differences and life experience differences ought to grow all of us up a little bit more rather than be the cause of an offense and getting our feelings hurt.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The importance of us being the people we need to be, both as individuals and as a community, in order for us to put Christ on display, I think that can\u2019t be lost. As husbands and wives, and moms and dads, we\u2019ve got to say: \u201cThere\u2019s a priority here. If we\u2019re going to be ambassadors for Christ, we\u2019ve got to be molded, and shaped, and modeled\/conformed to His image.\u201d I think what Scott said\u2014acknowledge the fact that you\u2019re a mess; spend time in God\u2019s Word; get in the church with other people who are not like you\u2014that\u2019s going to have the kind of impact that\u2019s going to begin the process of you becoming an irresistible witness for Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I would say\u2014where, Scott, you started the book is exactly true. When we abide\u2014and you explain all that in the first section\/what that looks like when a follower abides in Christ\u2014that is irresistible, because <em>fruit<\/em> is the result\u2014the fruit of us?\u2014no; the fruit of Christ. Man, oh man!\u2014there\u2019s <em>nobody<\/em> that isn\u2019t drawn to that like a magnet. What a great place to start!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>My thought was: \u201cThe more we abide in Christ, the more we <em>look<\/em> like Christ; and that becomes irresistible. It\u2019s not that we are; but He is, in us, and everyone wants to be around Him.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It will be off-putting to some because that\u2019s the case\u2014but Jesus said, \u201cIf I be lifted up, I\u2019ll draw men to Myself.\u201d There are those who are hungry for Jesus; and if we will be His representatives, our faith will be irresistible to those who God\u2019s working in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis week, we are making Scott\u2019s book available to those of you who can help support the ministry of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> with a donation. We think this would be a great book for parents and teens to go through together, maybe, at the dinner table. You just read a paragraph or two from one of the chapters and have a conversation around the table about how your family can apply what you\u2019re reading.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the title of the book is <em>Irresistible Faith: Becoming the Kind of Christian the World Can\u2019t Resist<\/em>, written by Scott Sauls. We are happy to send you a copy of the book when you make a donation to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You make it possible for other listeners in your community to hear this program every time you donate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThanks for helping this message get out to more people as you make a donation today. Be sure to request your copy of Scott Sauls\u2019 book when you get in touch with us. You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to donate at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Again, be sure to ask for a copy of the book, <em>Irresistible Faith, <\/em>as our thank-you gift when you donate today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tScott Sauls made a connection today between having an irresistible faith and abiding in Christ. We\u2019ve got the President of FamilyLife, David Robbins, here with us today. David, you learned something about abiding in the vine when you were living overseas as a missionary in Italy; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> That\u2019s right! Meg and I lived in Tuscany for two years, serving at the University at Pisa. We were actually studying John 15 and went with a vinedresser\u2014a literal vine dresser\u2014who worked in a vineyard. He talked about there being three criteria for this shoot to stay on the vine and whether they cut it back or not. He was talking about that verse in John 15 that every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes so that it will bear even more fruit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said it\u2019s three criteria: one was the direction of the vine, the second was the vigor of it\u2019s growth, the third was the strength of the attachment to the source. If any of those things were off, then the vinedresser would actually cut the vine back so that it could grow in the ways that the vinedresser wanted it to grow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the conversation today reminds me of that\u2014because if we are going to be around people that aren\u2019t just like ourselves; if we are going to initiate vulnerability with an irresistible faith; if we are going to love and learn in community, truly, long term\u2014those will all be things that will stretch us. It will feel, sometimes, like we\u2019re being cut back; but it\u2019s always worth it to stay in step with the direction and to keep growing, no matter how old we get.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Keep bearing fruit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. Thank you, David; that\u2019s helpful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope you can tune in and listen tomorrow. We\u2019re going to have a conversation with Scott Sauls about how important it is for us, as families, to be spending more time with people who aren\u2019t just exactly like us as we continue talking about an irresistible faith<em>.<\/em> I hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/305101","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305101"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305101"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305101"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305101"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=305101"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=305101"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=305101"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}