{"id":305065,"date":"2019-06-07T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2019-06-07T10:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/is-she-the-one\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T23:35:51","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T03:35:51","slug":"is-she-the-one","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/is-she-the-one\/","title":{"rendered":"Is She the One?"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Pastor Ben Stuart remembers the first time he saw his wife, Donna. He talks about the circumstances that lead to their courtship and eventual engagement.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-06-07.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:37","filesize":"27.12M","filesize_raw":"28440490","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2807,2808,2814],"tags":[4018,6640,6646,6639,2926],"podcast_series":[8280],"cwp_profile":[9081],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305065","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-engagements-and-weddings","category-newlyweds","category-releasing-your-child","tag-dating","tag-dating-biblically","tag-dtr","tag-how-to-date-well","tag-singles","podcast_series-single-dating-engaged-married","cwp_profile-ben-stuart","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305065\/is-she-the-one","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305065\/is-she-the-one","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"51sD0xJ8Af\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/is-she-the-one\/\">Is She the One?<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/is-she-the-one\/embed\/#?secret=51sD0xJ8Af\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Is She the One?&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"51sD0xJ8Af\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-06-07.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-06-07.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When a young person\u2014in high school, or college, or even after college\u2014has this thought: \u201cI think I might want to go out on a date with that person,\u201d Ben Stuart says it\u2019s good to follow up that thought with this question: \u201cWhy?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> I think, for all of us, it helps to clarify: \u201cWhat are we doing here?\u201d because <a id=\"_Hlk9518210\">I think a lot of people, and I know for me, I remember feeling this pressure of \u201cOh, I\u2019m in my teens; I should date.\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cI\u2019m not ready to get married at 17. What am I doing?\u201d There was no compelling \u201cWhy?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t even know why we\u2019re doing this.\u201d <\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt helped me, later on, to think about that: \u201cWhy does dating exist?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s our modern evaluation process towards marriage. So, when I didn\u2019t feel ready to get married, then I\u2019m like, \u201cWhy would I date somebody?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, June 7<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. If you\u2019re dating someone right now, is it just friendship and recreation or is this a marriage evaluation period for you? We\u2019ll talk about wise principles for dating with Ben Stuart today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I have to tell you, as we\u2019ve been talking about singleness and dating, engagement\/marriage with Ben Stuart this week\u2014and by the way, Ben, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Thank you. Good to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Nice to have you joining us. Ben is a pastor in the Washington, DC, area\u2014a new church called Passion City Church. If you live in that area, you might want to find out more about the church. Ben gave leadership, for years, to a ministry called Breakaway at Texas A&amp;M University. He\u2019s written a book called <em>Single, Dating, Engaged, Married<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn hearing about this subject, and hearing about your own story with this subject, Ben, I just have to wonder\u2014you shared with us that you had a chapter, during your 20s\/a long season, where you just kind of turned off the whole relationship thing and said, \u201cI\u2019m going to work on ministry, and get right with Jesus, and my own emotional healing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014getting out of the dumpster fire; that\u2019s what it was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And then, one day, you saw somebody and you said: \u201cShe looks good. I think I\u2019m okay.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverybody in your world knew, \u201cBen\u2019s kind of turned that off.\u201d What happened when you\u2014when word got out: \u201cBen just asked somebody out.\u201d I\u2019m thinking like there were headlines in the local paper\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> So bad; well, what happened was\u2014so this was great\u2014I met Donna; we were both serving at this event. Her band was leading worship, and I spoke. That was the first time I saw her. Then, this group would go out to dinner afterwards. Maybe, once a month for a couple of months, it was social\u2014hanging out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I turned the corner of: \u201cI\u2019m going to ask her to go on a date,\u201d and I did it. I thought [whispering], \u201cVery few will know.\u201d We got in the car\u2014I had this date planned and, literally, get in the car; and the phone starts buzzing; I pick it up. It\u2019s this dear couple that has been like family to me. They had just had a baby\u2014the baby\u2019s heart was racing at a scary level, and they were rushing on to the hospital in downtown Houston. It was the kind of thing, where it\u2019s not\u2014you know, you don\u2019t just turn it off.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014you don\u2019t go on your date; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> I look at her and I\u2019m like: \u201cPlans changed. I\u2019ve got to go to the hospital. I can turn around and drop you off; but here\u2019s the thing\u2014I need to go; or if you want to go, you\u2019re certainly welcome to.\u201d She\u2019s like \u201cLet\u2019s just go.\u201d I\u2019m like \u201cThat\u2019s awesome.\u201d We roll down there; and we\u2019re walking in, going, \u201cThese people might lose their baby.\u201d It\u2019s pretty much like, \u201cYou don\u2019t have to do this; like we can\u2026\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe walk in, and their whole community\u2014which was my church community\u2014was there, in the waiting room. I walk in, with this girl, clearly in date clothes; and everyone\u2019s real somber\u2014like this is real serious: \u201cWait; what?! Who is that?\u201d I\u2019m watching this dynamic like, \u201cOh man!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cThere goes the secret.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes; so it\u2019s great.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Word is out that Ben, the confirmed bachelor\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014is on a date.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Baby turned out fine, by the way\u2014praise the Lord.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was going to ask: \u201cHow is the baby?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Baby turned out great; he\u2019s doing real good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How did you navigate from first date to what they call a DTR [define the relationship], where you\u2019re having a conversation about \u201cWhat are we doing here?\u201d Did that happen quickly with you and Donna?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes; I was great at it, Bob; [Laughter] because I had done it so many ways wrong\u2014so many ways to fall off the horse\u2014but there\u2019s one way to stay up. I felt real good about it, because what I would do\u2014I would try to be clear on what I was asking her to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would say things like \u201cHey, my brother\u2019s got this party going on, and I need to bring a date. I would love to bring you; do you want to be my date to this?\u201d I would even drop that word in, just so she would know what it is\u2014not like, \u201cYou want to hang out or whatever?\u201d I would just be like, \u201cHey, let\u2019s go do that\u201d; and she\u2019d say, \u201cYes.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen I would drop her off and wouldn\u2019t make it this big\u2014like throw in the park and go \u201c<em>Okay<\/em>,\u201d\u2014I would just, at the end of the date, I would look and go: \u201cHey, that was really fun. I enjoyed it. Do you mind if I call you this week?\u201d She got out of the car and, now, she knew what was coming; because I knew what she was going to do\u2014she\u2019s going to go with all her friends [speaking quickly]: \u201cHow did it go? What are you going to do? Are you going to text him?\u201d She had something to say, \u201cHe told me he\u2019d call, so he\u2019s going to call.\u201d She knew it; I was clear. It kept all that anxiety out of her that I hear from young girls all the time: \u201cWell, am I supposed to reach out to him? Am I supposed to text him?\u201d She knew, \u201cHe\u2019s going to call me, and I\u2019m going to wait for that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You were being a man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes! And I was helping <em>her<\/em> not experience chaos and anxiety. It\u2019s a way to love people\u2014the Proverb says, \u201cAn honest answer is a kiss on the lips.\u201d It\u2019s a way to honor somebody\u2014to be direct. Then, every like third or fourth date, I would say something like: \u201cHey, I\u2019m really enjoying getting to know you. I\u2019m not ready to get married in the next six months or something in life, but I\u2019m really enjoying getting to know you.\u201d Then, I would sometimes throw things in like: \u201cI trust God with <em>your<\/em> life and with mine. I just want to go where He\u2019s going; but if you\u2019re comfortable with it, I\u2019m going to keep calling you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And there\u2019s no kissing\/there\u2019s nothing physical going on at this point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> No, no; just because there\u2019s different motivations for that. One thing I believe strongly is\u2014you\u2019re releasing so many powerful chemicals when you start messing with somebody\u2019s body\u2014I mean, dopamine firing and all that. It messes up the evaluation process. I mean, dating is evaluating: \u201cDo I want to hang out with you?\u2014<em>until I die!<\/em>\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s pretty big.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> It\u2019s all the other stuff we\u2019re trying to figure out\u2014like, \u201cDo I want to talk to you for 40 years?\u201d\u2014I\u2019ve got to figure that out\u2014so \u201cHold off this physical part,\u201d and \u201cCan I see\u2014can we relate?\u201d \u201cDo I enjoy you?\u201d \u201cDo we enjoy talking to each other?\u201d We fought for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Your wife had to like the fact that you were being intentional about talking about these things and doing it, proactively, rather than just leaving it ambiguous. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> I told a buddy of mine to do this before I was dating somebody\u2014he was my test case: [Laughter] \u201cThis is what you got to do.\u201d I said it very authoritatively and, then, I watched, carefully.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cYou do this\u201d; I\u2019m going to see if it works.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014like you know what you\u2019re talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes; oh yes; I was very convincing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe did it, and they got engaged. I remember interviewing his wife, afterwards, about how his dating went. She said: \u201cYou know what? He was so good at clarity in the dating process. I always knew where I stood, and it was one of my favorite things about him.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The other side of that is, if you\u2019re in a dating relationship right now\u2014and there is a <em>lack<\/em> of clarity, and it\u2019s been going on for a while\u2014a huge red flag ought to go up; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> I completely agree with that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And if you\u2019re in that, and you\u2019re the man or the woman, do you say: \u201cTime out. If this is going to keep going, we\u2019ve got to have some clarity\u201d?\u2014do you have the DTR?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes; I think you have to; yes. I think, for all of us, it helps to clarify: \u201cWhat are we doing here?\u201d I think a lot of people, and I know for me, I remember feeling this pressure of: \u201cOh, I\u2019m in my teens; I should date.\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cI\u2019m not ready to get married at 17. What am I doing?\u201d There was no compelling \u201cWhy?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t even know why we\u2019re doing this.\u201d It helped me, later on, to think about that: \u201cWhy does dating exist?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s our modern evaluation process towards marriage. So, when I didn\u2019t feel ready to get married, then I\u2019m like, \u201cWhy would I date somebody?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; but you\u2019re the\u2014I mean, I\u2019ve listened to your story. I\u2019m thinking: \u201cThere\u2019s women out there, thinking: \u201cThere\u2019s not another guy like Ben on the <em>planet<\/em>. You were like the perfect guy.\u201d [Laughter] Of course, we all know the dumpster fire of yours; and it took you time, but what do you say to those people? Are there guys that can do\u2014are there women that will do it like you\u2019re talking about?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes! What\u2019s crazy is\u2014every year of my life\u2014the last 20 years\u2014I\u2019ve had a Bible study of young men in their 20s that I meet with. These are wonderful gentlemen, godly, lion-faced men; they are <em>amazing<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhenever women come up to me and say, \u201cThere\u2019s no good guys.\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cThere\u2019s no good guys where <em>you are<\/em>, but I <em>know<\/em> a lot of them. Don\u2019t believe the lie, because that\u2019s what I think it is.\u201d People just believe the lie nowadays of: \u201cThis is the best it can be. This is just what dating is now.\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cDon\u2019t believe that; that\u2019s not actually <em>true<\/em>. There can be a better way.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it\u2019s also assuming God doesn\u2019t care about this area of our lives, and He does care. He cares; He knows\u2014He\u2019s in it, and He\u2019s applauding it to when it\u2019s going right\u2014like, \u201cYes; this is going to be <em>good<\/em>.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; so there was a point in your relationship you said with Donna\/you were telling her: \u201cI like you. I like spending time with you. I\u2019m not thinking about marriage anytime soon\u2026\u201d Then, there had to be a point, where you went, \u201cI\u2019m starting to think about marriage.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes; so for us, the tension entered that she had this music career that was getting traction. I was feeling\/very strongly called to go to seminary, which could move me anywhere in the world. The two longings of the human heart\u2014belonging and mattering: \u201cI\u2019ve got to have a purpose. I\u2019ve got to have a people.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSuddenly, our passions and purposes go, \u201cThese might not be going the same direction.\u201d I didn\u2019t know how to process that. We had these full summers of\u2014I was handing off my youth ministry; she was traveling, all over, singing. I said: \u201cYou know what? Let\u2019s just take the pressure off of: \u2018We have to talk every night on the phone; you should call me, and you should email me.\u2019\u201d I said: \u201cLet\u2019s not do that. I need to slow the process down. Can we just write letters?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSome of her friends thought that was crazy; but I just knew, for me, I emotionally process slowly. Even now, in my journal, I write at the top: \u201cHow do you feel?\u201d People laugh about that; because I have to ask myself because I\u2019m unclear: \u201cHow do you feel?\u201d \u201cI don\u2019t know. I think I\u2019m a little angry maybe,\u201d\u2014it just takes a while to figure it out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, for us, we took the summer and we wrote\u2014like, physically, wrote letters\/physically put them in the mailbox. I told her, \u201cOnly one at a time\u2014like one from me to you; then one from you to me.\u201d What happened is\u2014I gave myself distance and time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And what did that do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Distance and time are <em>wonderful<\/em> tools to figure out what\u2019s going on in your heart; because I think one of the things you want to find is: \u201cIs there a growing sense of commitment?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, I remember I had\u2014remember, I said all my buddies got married before me. I\u2019d ask them, \u201cHow did you know?\u201d And they\u2019d be like \u201cYou just know.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cThat\u2019s colossally unhelpful.\u201d [Laughter] I really pressed one of them\u2014he said: \u201cYou know how I knew Ben? We would run into problems, whether it would be a communication issue or some problem, and I found, within myself, \u2018Man, I just wanted to get to the other side of this problem and work it\u2019; because I wanted deeper unity.\u201d He said: \u201cYou know, when you would date some other people, and you\u2019re telling yourself \u2018Oh, they\u2019re cute. Her mom thinks I\u2019m great\u2019; but every time you argue, you\u2019re like, \u2018Man, this is just a matter of time.\u2019 You feel like this isn\u2019t going to work.\u201d He said, \u201cWith her, I\u2019m like, \u2018How do we get past this so we can get unity again?\u2019\u201d He said, \u201cI found a growing sense of commitment.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor me, with that distance and time from Donna\u2014I remember I was on a boat\u20144<sup>th<\/sup> of July, watching the fireworks go off\u2014and I was like \u201cHow do you feel?\u201d I was like, \u201cI\u2019d rather be with her than without her,\u201d and that\u2019s what I needed. I needed time to figure that out. After that, I didn\u2019t really mess around; came back, took her on a date, and was like: \u201cI\u2019d rather be with you than not. If there\u2019s an obstacle, let\u2019s figure out our way through it; because I want you.\u201d But I needed that time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I remember telling people: \u201cWhen you\u2019ve been with a person, and seen them at what you figure has got to be pretty much their worst\u2014I mean, you\u2019ve seen it bad; and you\u2019ve been there long enough to go, \u2018Okay; they can only fake good for so long, and then you\u2019ll see the bad stuff.\u2019 When you see that and you go: \u2018I still want to be with you, even though this is how you can be; I still want to be with you,\u2019 that ought to be a little bit of a trigger that there\u2019s something deeper than just, \u2018This feels good in the moment, happening here\u2019\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s one of the factors. I think there [are] a couple; but that\u2019s a <em>big<\/em> one. Song of Solomon talks about that\u2014like: \u201cLove is as strong as death.\u201d When death grabs something, it doesn\u2019t let go; that\u2019s why they say that\u2014you\u2019re going to stand on a stage, in front of God and everybody, and promise: \u201c\u2026in sickness and health unto death do us part.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou don\u2019t want to <em>hope<\/em> that\u2019s true; you want that to be rising up from inside you, so you need to start seeing that, in yourself, while you\u2019re dating: \u201cI want to be with this person, even if they get really sick,\u201d \u201cI want to be with this person, even if he loses his job and can\u2019t find another one,\u201d \u201cI want to be with this person unto death.\u201d You want to <em>feel<\/em> that so, when you\u2019re saying it on stage, \u201cYes; I mean that.\u201d You\u2019ve got to find that in you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You said that\u2019s one thing. What else do you think is in there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> I think the other thing is, externally, communication\u2014like: \u201cCan you navigate conflict well?\u201d I see that in couples\u2014they really love each other\/really want to make it work, but every time they argue. Proverbs says, \u201cRash words are like the thrust of a sword,\u201d\u2014like: \u201cY\u2019all are dangerous; you\u2019re just hurting each other. You\u2019re always going for the win\/going for the throat. Before you get married, I would encourage you\u2014figure out how to communicate in a way that is moving you toward unity, not just victory, in the argument. You\u2019ve got to do that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then the last thing, I think you\u2019ve got to survive a moment of confession. I think you need to be able to\u2014like you were saying\u2014see some of the worst parts and say, \u201cBut I want you anyway.\u201d I think that helps you; because, when all of us have those parts in us we want to hide\u2014and when you share that dark, sad part of you\u2014and then that person looks you in the eye, and maybe they cry, but they say: \u201cI\u2019m sorry that happened to you,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m sad about that, but I love you and I want you anyway.\u201d When they say that to you, that is such a powerful bonding agent. I think you want that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you have a moment of confession?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes; we did. I think you have to be careful with it; that\u2019s where your community helps you: \u201cHow much information do you share that you\u2019re not suddenly creating chaos?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut yes; I think you need to have an honest moment about: \u201cHere\u2019s some decisions I made, relationally, in the past.\u201d It\u2019s scary to do that; but when we both did that and realized, \u201cOkay; I know the worst, and want you any way,\u201d\u2014\u201cOh man, I just know, now, this girl\u2019s mine and I\u2019m hers. Set me like a seal in your arm.\u201d I\u2019m not worried; and I\u2019m not trying to redact statements, later in our marriage, like, \u201cOh yes; I forgot I never told her about that.\u201d There is no \u201cI never told her,\u201d\u2014there\u2019s no hidden part of Ben with Donna. There\u2019s other people that don\u2019t get to know all of me, but she gets to know all of me. I think you want that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Because if you don\u2019t have that, here\u2019s what you wind up with\u2014you wind up with: \u201cShe loves the part of me she knows; but if she knew the other part of me, I don\u2019t know that she\u2019d love me.\u201d If you\u2019re going through marriage with: \u201cThere\u2019s this hidden side of me and, if she found out, I\u2019m not sure she would still love me,\u201d there\u2019s never oneness; there\u2019s never real intimacy in that relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> You didn\u2019t get what you want. What you want in marriage is that sense of community\u2014that: \u201cSomeone deeply knows me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Fully-known and fully-loved is what you want.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014as much as you\u2019re aware of because, sometimes, you\u2019re not even aware of some of the things that you have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Which is true, totally; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And so\u2014but even being willing to expose those; and to allow your spouse to see them, and to make the decision of loving you in spite of.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And obviously, your moment of confession is not date one or date three\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019re way down the line. Coach some people up\u2014you\u2019ve got a community to help you\u2014but we blew it in this area. I shared way too much\u2014stupid\/na\u00efve.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We, basically, did everything wrong. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; we did everything you didn\u2019t do. [Laughter] But I think there\u2019s singles out there, going: \u201cHow much do I share? How honest do I get? What\u2019s too far?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m the kind of person\u2014I really want to <em>know<\/em> people\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s her fault; it\u2019s her fault.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014so I will ask questions that go down deep, and you\u2019re just answering my questions; but how do you do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> You probably asked too many. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I do ask too many\u2014I do that to everybody.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> For Donna and [me]\u2014dating is evaluation. You\u2019re getting to know each other and \u201cWhat are you looking for?\u201d You know, Song of Solomon\u2014what do you see? There\u2019s excitement there; there\u2019s life. It\u2019s springtime: \u201cLet him kiss me with the kiss of his mouth.\u201d He\u2019s like a stag leaping over the hills. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou want to feel like: \u201cI like being around this person. I\u2019m excited being around this person.\u201d There\u2019s growth; it\u2019s like springtime: \u201cI\u2019m a better person around you,\u201d\u2014I think you wait until you see that\u2014\u201cI\u2019m becoming the best version of me by being around you. You\u2019re sharpening good things in me; I\u2019m sharpening good things in you. It\u2019s springtime when we\u2019re together.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, I\u2019ve seen two people that are great apart; you get them together, and it spirals down\u2014you go, \u201cY\u2019all aren\u2019t a good match.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo that\u2019s what you are looking for: \u201cIs there excitement?\u2014is there life? Do we want to be in this thing? Are we communicating well?\u201d I think when you\u2019re getting that\u2014where you\u2019re like, \u201cReally, I\u2019m like starting to look at rings,\u201d\u2014I think you\u2019re waiting until that moment, until you go, \u201cI need to tell you some things.\u201d For me, I think getting some godly mature people around you, to say, \u201cHey, I need to tell him about \u2018A,\u2019 \u2018B,\u2019 \u2018C,\u2019 and \u2018D.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When did you tell Donna, \u201cI love you\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> \u2014not until I got her a ring. We decided to hold off on that\u2014we were about that with the word, I <em>love<\/em> you. I just\u2014to me, I was like, \u201cSomething has to be sacred in this world.\u201d The word, love, is pretty sacred.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I wish somebody had told me that when I was in junior high; right?\u2014because I was so casual and trivial with it that it meant <em>nothing<\/em> when I said it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben: <\/strong>Yes; I wanted it to have weight. So the word, missed, started taking on far more weight than it does in a normal conversation: \u201cI <em>miss<\/em> you.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014code for <em>love<\/em>? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I told my boys, when we were raising them\u2014I said, \u201cWhen you say to a girl\/when you\u2019re ready to say to a girl, \u2018I love you,\u2019 the very next thing you have to say is: \u2018Will you marry me?\u2019\u201d It\u2019s like, \u201cYou can\u2019t say this until you\u2019re ready to say that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did they do it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I don\u2019t\u2019 know; I think, if they didn\u2019t, they got real close to holding off on that and recognizing the sacred nature of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think a couple of our boys did that, too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019d been foolish with it. I told Mary Ann I loved her on like our third date or something. What I meant was: \u201cI like spending time with you. This feels really nice. I <em>love<\/em> it!\u201d\u2014kind of like: \u201cYou know what? I love you.\u201d I was casual with it\/stupid.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Well, and the good news is y\u2019all made it. That\u2019s the good news in all of this\u2014is like we feel comfortable admitting failures; because you know: \u201cI\u2019m forgiven,\u201d and there\u2019s always a chance with God. He\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014redeems it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cHe\u2019s redeeming people and healing, and you need that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you think about calling your book <em>Ben\u2019s Big Dumpster Fire<\/em>?\u2014[Laughter]\u2014because I think\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s in there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014<em>Ben\u2019s Big Book of Dating Mistakes<\/em> could have been a part of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> That could have been a book; I don\u2019t know who would want to read that one. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, here\u2019s the point\u2014what you\u2019ve shared in this book\u2014which is not called <em>Ben\u2019s Big Dumpster Fire<\/em>\u2014it\u2019s <em>Single, Dating, Engaged, Married<\/em> by Ben Stuart. What you\u2019ve done in here is\u2014you\u2019ve shared enough of your story that we can learn from the good, the bad, the ugly; but you\u2019ve also brought it to bear in modern culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would love to think that\u2014starting in high school, and all the way through the 20s and into the 30s, if it goes that long\u2014people are reading this, going back, and reading it again. As you said, Dave, reading it in community, with other people\u2014making this something that they\u2019re spending time\u2014this is a gift you\u2019ve given.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I was just going to say, \u201cWhat a gift,\u201d\u2014and not just the singles\u2014but think of parents\u2014to get a tool like this to help their kids do it right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; and it\u2019s inspiring, Ben. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Well, thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s inspiring to hear your story\u2014and how, maybe, it didn\u2019t start out right\u2014but man, you\u2019ve done a really good job. I love that, what you\u2019ve learned, you\u2019re giving away. Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Oh, thanks, guys.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, and we are giving away copies of Ben\u2019s book today to those listeners, who can help support the ministry of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> with a donation. Those of you, who are regular listeners, who value what this program is all about and what this ministry is all about, you make it possible when you donate to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014our resources, our events, our website; this daily program available on your local radio station, stations all across the country, on the FamilyLife app, online\u2014all of that happens because folks, like you, say, \u201cThis is important for us and for our community, and we want to make sure it continues.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you make a donation today to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, you can request a copy of Ben\u2019s book, <em>Single, Dating, Engaged, Married: Navigating Life and Love in the Modern Age<\/em>. It\u2019s our gift to you to say, \u201cThank you for your ongoing support of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u201d Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; click the button that says \u201cDonate\u201d; make an online donation, and request the book. Or call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014ask for your copy of Ben Stuart\u2019s book and make your donation over the phone. Again, the number is 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I found myself reflecting, in our conversation with Ben today, about all of the different responses to the whole issue of dating over the last 25 years\u2014whether we kiss it goodbye or whether we embrace it\u2014\u201cWhat\u2019s it supposed to look like?\u201d \u201cWhat\u2019s the best way to navigate it?\u201d It\u2019s tricky; we want to make sure our kids aren\u2019t being damaged in this culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid Robbins, who is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> is here with me. Dating\u2019s a minefield, and knowing how to walk our kids through it is a challenge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> It\u2019s insightful to actually learn\u2014currently, people who are dating: \u201cHow are they experiencing the current dating script?\u201d People are so unhappy with it; they\u2019re willing to admit it. Researcher, Donna Freitas, did some extensive research on attitudes concerning the casual dating culture that\u2019s so prevalent today. Forty-one percent of people, 18-25, said they were profoundly unhappy with the current dating script. Also, a majority of them said they feel like they don\u2019t have another way to go; there is no other script to pursue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOver recent years, I\u2019ve noticed\u2014with my friends and with Millennials that we\u2019ve worked with directly\u2014one of the biggest needs is clarity in communication as you date. This isn\u2019t a new topic, obviously; it\u2019s always been something, but I think more than ever. This is one of those things that Ben points to in his book that is one of those areas to really double down on; because romantic comedies make us think that the guessing game\u2019s actually fun, and delightful, and is exciting; but it <em>isn\u2019t<\/em>. It actually creates turmoil and hardly <em>ever<\/em> works out well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe need to relearn how to lead and respond in communication, and Ben\u2019s book is great for that. It\u2019s not just good for general dating advice; there\u2019s some <em>amazing<\/em> stuff in there around communication.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, and his model\u2014what he did, in sitting down with his girlfriend and saying, \u201cHere\u2019s what I\u2019m thinking. Here\u2019s where I\u2019m headed. Here\u2019s what I have in mind,\u201d\u2014just a great model so that there\u2019s not ambiguity in what\u2019s happening in these relationships. That\u2019s a great point David. Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I want to encourage our listeners to be in prayer for couples, all across the country, who will be joining us this weekend at one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways. Mary Ann and I are going to a getaway this weekend. We\u2019re going to be in Plano, Texas, for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> that\u2019s happening there this weekend. Also, there\u2019s a getaway in Sugarland, Texas\u2014just outside of Houston\u2014and one in Las Vegas, Nevada. Again, pray for the hundreds of couples, who will be a part of this weekend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou might start thinking, now, about the fall season. Block out a weekend when the two of you can get away and invest in your marriage, sometime, this fall. Find out dates and locations\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend. I hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend, and I hope you can join us on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk about the things your kids do that trigger you\u2014you know, that provoke anger in you. I mean, I know Ephesians 4 says, \u201cFather\u2019s don\u2019t provoke your children to anger,\u201d but what about when our kids provoke us to anger? What do we do with that? Amber Lia and Wendy Speake will be here to talk about that. I hope you can join us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:29:37"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["27.12M"],"filesize_raw":["28440490"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305065.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305065.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Ben Stuart remembers the first time he saw his wife, Donna. He talks about the circumstances that lead to their courtship and eventual engagement.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-06-07.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When a young person\u2014in high school, or college, or even after college\u2014has this thought: \u201cI think I might want to go out on a date with that person,\u201d Ben Stuart says it\u2019s good to follow up that thought with this question: \u201cWhy?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> I think, for all of us, it helps to clarify: \u201cWhat are we doing here?\u201d because <a id=\"_Hlk9518210\">I think a lot of people, and I know for me, I remember feeling this pressure of \u201cOh, I\u2019m in my teens; I should date.\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cI\u2019m not ready to get married at 17. What am I doing?\u201d There was no compelling \u201cWhy?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t even know why we\u2019re doing this.\u201d <\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt helped me, later on, to think about that: \u201cWhy does dating exist?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s our modern evaluation process towards marriage. So, when I didn\u2019t feel ready to get married, then I\u2019m like, \u201cWhy would I date somebody?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, June 7<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. If you\u2019re dating someone right now, is it just friendship and recreation or is this a marriage evaluation period for you? We\u2019ll talk about wise principles for dating with Ben Stuart today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I have to tell you, as we\u2019ve been talking about singleness and dating, engagement\/marriage with Ben Stuart this week\u2014and by the way, Ben, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Thank you. Good to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Nice to have you joining us. Ben is a pastor in the Washington, DC, area\u2014a new church called Passion City Church. If you live in that area, you might want to find out more about the church. Ben gave leadership, for years, to a ministry called Breakaway at Texas A&amp;M University. He\u2019s written a book called <em>Single, Dating, Engaged, Married<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn hearing about this subject, and hearing about your own story with this subject, Ben, I just have to wonder\u2014you shared with us that you had a chapter, during your 20s\/a long season, where you just kind of turned off the whole relationship thing and said, \u201cI\u2019m going to work on ministry, and get right with Jesus, and my own emotional healing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014getting out of the dumpster fire; that\u2019s what it was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And then, one day, you saw somebody and you said: \u201cShe looks good. I think I\u2019m okay.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverybody in your world knew, \u201cBen\u2019s kind of turned that off.\u201d What happened when you\u2014when word got out: \u201cBen just asked somebody out.\u201d I\u2019m thinking like there were headlines in the local paper\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> So bad; well, what happened was\u2014so this was great\u2014I met Donna; we were both serving at this event. Her band was leading worship, and I spoke. That was the first time I saw her. Then, this group would go out to dinner afterwards. Maybe, once a month for a couple of months, it was social\u2014hanging out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I turned the corner of: \u201cI\u2019m going to ask her to go on a date,\u201d and I did it. I thought [whispering], \u201cVery few will know.\u201d We got in the car\u2014I had this date planned and, literally, get in the car; and the phone starts buzzing; I pick it up. It\u2019s this dear couple that has been like family to me. They had just had a baby\u2014the baby\u2019s heart was racing at a scary level, and they were rushing on to the hospital in downtown Houston. It was the kind of thing, where it\u2019s not\u2014you know, you don\u2019t just turn it off.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014you don\u2019t go on your date; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> I look at her and I\u2019m like: \u201cPlans changed. I\u2019ve got to go to the hospital. I can turn around and drop you off; but here\u2019s the thing\u2014I need to go; or if you want to go, you\u2019re certainly welcome to.\u201d She\u2019s like \u201cLet\u2019s just go.\u201d I\u2019m like \u201cThat\u2019s awesome.\u201d We roll down there; and we\u2019re walking in, going, \u201cThese people might lose their baby.\u201d It\u2019s pretty much like, \u201cYou don\u2019t have to do this; like we can\u2026\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe walk in, and their whole community\u2014which was my church community\u2014was there, in the waiting room. I walk in, with this girl, clearly in date clothes; and everyone\u2019s real somber\u2014like this is real serious: \u201cWait; what?! Who is that?\u201d I\u2019m watching this dynamic like, \u201cOh man!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cThere goes the secret.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes; so it\u2019s great.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Word is out that Ben, the confirmed bachelor\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014is on a date.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Baby turned out fine, by the way\u2014praise the Lord.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was going to ask: \u201cHow is the baby?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Baby turned out great; he\u2019s doing real good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How did you navigate from first date to what they call a DTR [define the relationship], where you\u2019re having a conversation about \u201cWhat are we doing here?\u201d Did that happen quickly with you and Donna?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes; I was great at it, Bob; [Laughter] because I had done it so many ways wrong\u2014so many ways to fall off the horse\u2014but there\u2019s one way to stay up. I felt real good about it, because what I would do\u2014I would try to be clear on what I was asking her to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would say things like \u201cHey, my brother\u2019s got this party going on, and I need to bring a date. I would love to bring you; do you want to be my date to this?\u201d I would even drop that word in, just so she would know what it is\u2014not like, \u201cYou want to hang out or whatever?\u201d I would just be like, \u201cHey, let\u2019s go do that\u201d; and she\u2019d say, \u201cYes.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen I would drop her off and wouldn\u2019t make it this big\u2014like throw in the park and go \u201c<em>Okay<\/em>,\u201d\u2014I would just, at the end of the date, I would look and go: \u201cHey, that was really fun. I enjoyed it. Do you mind if I call you this week?\u201d She got out of the car and, now, she knew what was coming; because I knew what she was going to do\u2014she\u2019s going to go with all her friends [speaking quickly]: \u201cHow did it go? What are you going to do? Are you going to text him?\u201d She had something to say, \u201cHe told me he\u2019d call, so he\u2019s going to call.\u201d She knew it; I was clear. It kept all that anxiety out of her that I hear from young girls all the time: \u201cWell, am I supposed to reach out to him? Am I supposed to text him?\u201d She knew, \u201cHe\u2019s going to call me, and I\u2019m going to wait for that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You were being a man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes! And I was helping <em>her<\/em> not experience chaos and anxiety. It\u2019s a way to love people\u2014the Proverb says, \u201cAn honest answer is a kiss on the lips.\u201d It\u2019s a way to honor somebody\u2014to be direct. Then, every like third or fourth date, I would say something like: \u201cHey, I\u2019m really enjoying getting to know you. I\u2019m not ready to get married in the next six months or something in life, but I\u2019m really enjoying getting to know you.\u201d Then, I would sometimes throw things in like: \u201cI trust God with <em>your<\/em> life and with mine. I just want to go where He\u2019s going; but if you\u2019re comfortable with it, I\u2019m going to keep calling you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And there\u2019s no kissing\/there\u2019s nothing physical going on at this point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> No, no; just because there\u2019s different motivations for that. One thing I believe strongly is\u2014you\u2019re releasing so many powerful chemicals when you start messing with somebody\u2019s body\u2014I mean, dopamine firing and all that. It messes up the evaluation process. I mean, dating is evaluating: \u201cDo I want to hang out with you?\u2014<em>until I die!<\/em>\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s pretty big.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> It\u2019s all the other stuff we\u2019re trying to figure out\u2014like, \u201cDo I want to talk to you for 40 years?\u201d\u2014I\u2019ve got to figure that out\u2014so \u201cHold off this physical part,\u201d and \u201cCan I see\u2014can we relate?\u201d \u201cDo I enjoy you?\u201d \u201cDo we enjoy talking to each other?\u201d We fought for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Your wife had to like the fact that you were being intentional about talking about these things and doing it, proactively, rather than just leaving it ambiguous. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> I told a buddy of mine to do this before I was dating somebody\u2014he was my test case: [Laughter] \u201cThis is what you got to do.\u201d I said it very authoritatively and, then, I watched, carefully.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cYou do this\u201d; I\u2019m going to see if it works.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014like you know what you\u2019re talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes; oh yes; I was very convincing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe did it, and they got engaged. I remember interviewing his wife, afterwards, about how his dating went. She said: \u201cYou know what? He was so good at clarity in the dating process. I always knew where I stood, and it was one of my favorite things about him.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The other side of that is, if you\u2019re in a dating relationship right now\u2014and there is a <em>lack<\/em> of clarity, and it\u2019s been going on for a while\u2014a huge red flag ought to go up; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> I completely agree with that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And if you\u2019re in that, and you\u2019re the man or the woman, do you say: \u201cTime out. If this is going to keep going, we\u2019ve got to have some clarity\u201d?\u2014do you have the DTR?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes; I think you have to; yes. I think, for all of us, it helps to clarify: \u201cWhat are we doing here?\u201d I think a lot of people, and I know for me, I remember feeling this pressure of: \u201cOh, I\u2019m in my teens; I should date.\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cI\u2019m not ready to get married at 17. What am I doing?\u201d There was no compelling \u201cWhy?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t even know why we\u2019re doing this.\u201d It helped me, later on, to think about that: \u201cWhy does dating exist?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s our modern evaluation process towards marriage. So, when I didn\u2019t feel ready to get married, then I\u2019m like, \u201cWhy would I date somebody?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; but you\u2019re the\u2014I mean, I\u2019ve listened to your story. I\u2019m thinking: \u201cThere\u2019s women out there, thinking: \u201cThere\u2019s not another guy like Ben on the <em>planet<\/em>. You were like the perfect guy.\u201d [Laughter] Of course, we all know the dumpster fire of yours; and it took you time, but what do you say to those people? Are there guys that can do\u2014are there women that will do it like you\u2019re talking about?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes! What\u2019s crazy is\u2014every year of my life\u2014the last 20 years\u2014I\u2019ve had a Bible study of young men in their 20s that I meet with. These are wonderful gentlemen, godly, lion-faced men; they are <em>amazing<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhenever women come up to me and say, \u201cThere\u2019s no good guys.\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cThere\u2019s no good guys where <em>you are<\/em>, but I <em>know<\/em> a lot of them. Don\u2019t believe the lie, because that\u2019s what I think it is.\u201d People just believe the lie nowadays of: \u201cThis is the best it can be. This is just what dating is now.\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cDon\u2019t believe that; that\u2019s not actually <em>true<\/em>. There can be a better way.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it\u2019s also assuming God doesn\u2019t care about this area of our lives, and He does care. He cares; He knows\u2014He\u2019s in it, and He\u2019s applauding it to when it\u2019s going right\u2014like, \u201cYes; this is going to be <em>good<\/em>.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; so there was a point in your relationship you said with Donna\/you were telling her: \u201cI like you. I like spending time with you. I\u2019m not thinking about marriage anytime soon\u2026\u201d Then, there had to be a point, where you went, \u201cI\u2019m starting to think about marriage.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes; so for us, the tension entered that she had this music career that was getting traction. I was feeling\/very strongly called to go to seminary, which could move me anywhere in the world. The two longings of the human heart\u2014belonging and mattering: \u201cI\u2019ve got to have a purpose. I\u2019ve got to have a people.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSuddenly, our passions and purposes go, \u201cThese might not be going the same direction.\u201d I didn\u2019t know how to process that. We had these full summers of\u2014I was handing off my youth ministry; she was traveling, all over, singing. I said: \u201cYou know what? Let\u2019s just take the pressure off of: \u2018We have to talk every night on the phone; you should call me, and you should email me.\u2019\u201d I said: \u201cLet\u2019s not do that. I need to slow the process down. Can we just write letters?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSome of her friends thought that was crazy; but I just knew, for me, I emotionally process slowly. Even now, in my journal, I write at the top: \u201cHow do you feel?\u201d People laugh about that; because I have to ask myself because I\u2019m unclear: \u201cHow do you feel?\u201d \u201cI don\u2019t know. I think I\u2019m a little angry maybe,\u201d\u2014it just takes a while to figure it out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, for us, we took the summer and we wrote\u2014like, physically, wrote letters\/physically put them in the mailbox. I told her, \u201cOnly one at a time\u2014like one from me to you; then one from you to me.\u201d What happened is\u2014I gave myself distance and time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And what did that do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Distance and time are <em>wonderful<\/em> tools to figure out what\u2019s going on in your heart; because I think one of the things you want to find is: \u201cIs there a growing sense of commitment?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, I remember I had\u2014remember, I said all my buddies got married before me. I\u2019d ask them, \u201cHow did you know?\u201d And they\u2019d be like \u201cYou just know.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cThat\u2019s colossally unhelpful.\u201d [Laughter] I really pressed one of them\u2014he said: \u201cYou know how I knew Ben? We would run into problems, whether it would be a communication issue or some problem, and I found, within myself, \u2018Man, I just wanted to get to the other side of this problem and work it\u2019; because I wanted deeper unity.\u201d He said: \u201cYou know, when you would date some other people, and you\u2019re telling yourself \u2018Oh, they\u2019re cute. Her mom thinks I\u2019m great\u2019; but every time you argue, you\u2019re like, \u2018Man, this is just a matter of time.\u2019 You feel like this isn\u2019t going to work.\u201d He said, \u201cWith her, I\u2019m like, \u2018How do we get past this so we can get unity again?\u2019\u201d He said, \u201cI found a growing sense of commitment.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor me, with that distance and time from Donna\u2014I remember I was on a boat\u20144<sup>th<\/sup> of July, watching the fireworks go off\u2014and I was like \u201cHow do you feel?\u201d I was like, \u201cI\u2019d rather be with her than without her,\u201d and that\u2019s what I needed. I needed time to figure that out. After that, I didn\u2019t really mess around; came back, took her on a date, and was like: \u201cI\u2019d rather be with you than not. If there\u2019s an obstacle, let\u2019s figure out our way through it; because I want you.\u201d But I needed that time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I remember telling people: \u201cWhen you\u2019ve been with a person, and seen them at what you figure has got to be pretty much their worst\u2014I mean, you\u2019ve seen it bad; and you\u2019ve been there long enough to go, \u2018Okay; they can only fake good for so long, and then you\u2019ll see the bad stuff.\u2019 When you see that and you go: \u2018I still want to be with you, even though this is how you can be; I still want to be with you,\u2019 that ought to be a little bit of a trigger that there\u2019s something deeper than just, \u2018This feels good in the moment, happening here\u2019\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s one of the factors. I think there [are] a couple; but that\u2019s a <em>big<\/em> one. Song of Solomon talks about that\u2014like: \u201cLove is as strong as death.\u201d When death grabs something, it doesn\u2019t let go; that\u2019s why they say that\u2014you\u2019re going to stand on a stage, in front of God and everybody, and promise: \u201c\u2026in sickness and health unto death do us part.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou don\u2019t want to <em>hope<\/em> that\u2019s true; you want that to be rising up from inside you, so you need to start seeing that, in yourself, while you\u2019re dating: \u201cI want to be with this person, even if they get really sick,\u201d \u201cI want to be with this person, even if he loses his job and can\u2019t find another one,\u201d \u201cI want to be with this person unto death.\u201d You want to <em>feel<\/em> that so, when you\u2019re saying it on stage, \u201cYes; I mean that.\u201d You\u2019ve got to find that in you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You said that\u2019s one thing. What else do you think is in there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> I think the other thing is, externally, communication\u2014like: \u201cCan you navigate conflict well?\u201d I see that in couples\u2014they really love each other\/really want to make it work, but every time they argue. Proverbs says, \u201cRash words are like the thrust of a sword,\u201d\u2014like: \u201cY\u2019all are dangerous; you\u2019re just hurting each other. You\u2019re always going for the win\/going for the throat. Before you get married, I would encourage you\u2014figure out how to communicate in a way that is moving you toward unity, not just victory, in the argument. You\u2019ve got to do that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then the last thing, I think you\u2019ve got to survive a moment of confession. I think you need to be able to\u2014like you were saying\u2014see some of the worst parts and say, \u201cBut I want you anyway.\u201d I think that helps you; because, when all of us have those parts in us we want to hide\u2014and when you share that dark, sad part of you\u2014and then that person looks you in the eye, and maybe they cry, but they say: \u201cI\u2019m sorry that happened to you,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m sad about that, but I love you and I want you anyway.\u201d When they say that to you, that is such a powerful bonding agent. I think you want that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you have a moment of confession?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Yes; we did. I think you have to be careful with it; that\u2019s where your community helps you: \u201cHow much information do you share that you\u2019re not suddenly creating chaos?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut yes; I think you need to have an honest moment about: \u201cHere\u2019s some decisions I made, relationally, in the past.\u201d It\u2019s scary to do that; but when we both did that and realized, \u201cOkay; I know the worst, and want you any way,\u201d\u2014\u201cOh man, I just know, now, this girl\u2019s mine and I\u2019m hers. Set me like a seal in your arm.\u201d I\u2019m not worried; and I\u2019m not trying to redact statements, later in our marriage, like, \u201cOh yes; I forgot I never told her about that.\u201d There is no \u201cI never told her,\u201d\u2014there\u2019s no hidden part of Ben with Donna. There\u2019s other people that don\u2019t get to know all of me, but she gets to know all of me. I think you want that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Because if you don\u2019t have that, here\u2019s what you wind up with\u2014you wind up with: \u201cShe loves the part of me she knows; but if she knew the other part of me, I don\u2019t know that she\u2019d love me.\u201d If you\u2019re going through marriage with: \u201cThere\u2019s this hidden side of me and, if she found out, I\u2019m not sure she would still love me,\u201d there\u2019s never oneness; there\u2019s never real intimacy in that relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> You didn\u2019t get what you want. What you want in marriage is that sense of community\u2014that: \u201cSomeone deeply knows me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Fully-known and fully-loved is what you want.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014as much as you\u2019re aware of because, sometimes, you\u2019re not even aware of some of the things that you have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Which is true, totally; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And so\u2014but even being willing to expose those; and to allow your spouse to see them, and to make the decision of loving you in spite of.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And obviously, your moment of confession is not date one or date three\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019re way down the line. Coach some people up\u2014you\u2019ve got a community to help you\u2014but we blew it in this area. I shared way too much\u2014stupid\/na\u00efve.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We, basically, did everything wrong. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; we did everything you didn\u2019t do. [Laughter] But I think there\u2019s singles out there, going: \u201cHow much do I share? How honest do I get? What\u2019s too far?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m the kind of person\u2014I really want to <em>know<\/em> people\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s her fault; it\u2019s her fault.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014so I will ask questions that go down deep, and you\u2019re just answering my questions; but how do you do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> You probably asked too many. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I do ask too many\u2014I do that to everybody.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> For Donna and [me]\u2014dating is evaluation. You\u2019re getting to know each other and \u201cWhat are you looking for?\u201d You know, Song of Solomon\u2014what do you see? There\u2019s excitement there; there\u2019s life. It\u2019s springtime: \u201cLet him kiss me with the kiss of his mouth.\u201d He\u2019s like a stag leaping over the hills. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou want to feel like: \u201cI like being around this person. I\u2019m excited being around this person.\u201d There\u2019s growth; it\u2019s like springtime: \u201cI\u2019m a better person around you,\u201d\u2014I think you wait until you see that\u2014\u201cI\u2019m becoming the best version of me by being around you. You\u2019re sharpening good things in me; I\u2019m sharpening good things in you. It\u2019s springtime when we\u2019re together.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, I\u2019ve seen two people that are great apart; you get them together, and it spirals down\u2014you go, \u201cY\u2019all aren\u2019t a good match.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo that\u2019s what you are looking for: \u201cIs there excitement?\u2014is there life? Do we want to be in this thing? Are we communicating well?\u201d I think when you\u2019re getting that\u2014where you\u2019re like, \u201cReally, I\u2019m like starting to look at rings,\u201d\u2014I think you\u2019re waiting until that moment, until you go, \u201cI need to tell you some things.\u201d For me, I think getting some godly mature people around you, to say, \u201cHey, I need to tell him about \u2018A,\u2019 \u2018B,\u2019 \u2018C,\u2019 and \u2018D.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When did you tell Donna, \u201cI love you\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> \u2014not until I got her a ring. We decided to hold off on that\u2014we were about that with the word, I <em>love<\/em> you. I just\u2014to me, I was like, \u201cSomething has to be sacred in this world.\u201d The word, love, is pretty sacred.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I wish somebody had told me that when I was in junior high; right?\u2014because I was so casual and trivial with it that it meant <em>nothing<\/em> when I said it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben: <\/strong>Yes; I wanted it to have weight. So the word, missed, started taking on far more weight than it does in a normal conversation: \u201cI <em>miss<\/em> you.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014code for <em>love<\/em>? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I told my boys, when we were raising them\u2014I said, \u201cWhen you say to a girl\/when you\u2019re ready to say to a girl, \u2018I love you,\u2019 the very next thing you have to say is: \u2018Will you marry me?\u2019\u201d It\u2019s like, \u201cYou can\u2019t say this until you\u2019re ready to say that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did they do it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I don\u2019t\u2019 know; I think, if they didn\u2019t, they got real close to holding off on that and recognizing the sacred nature of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think a couple of our boys did that, too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019d been foolish with it. I told Mary Ann I loved her on like our third date or something. What I meant was: \u201cI like spending time with you. This feels really nice. I <em>love<\/em> it!\u201d\u2014kind of like: \u201cYou know what? I love you.\u201d I was casual with it\/stupid.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Well, and the good news is y\u2019all made it. That\u2019s the good news in all of this\u2014is like we feel comfortable admitting failures; because you know: \u201cI\u2019m forgiven,\u201d and there\u2019s always a chance with God. He\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014redeems it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cHe\u2019s redeeming people and healing, and you need that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you think about calling your book <em>Ben\u2019s Big Dumpster Fire<\/em>?\u2014[Laughter]\u2014because I think\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s in there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014<em>Ben\u2019s Big Book of Dating Mistakes<\/em> could have been a part of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> That could have been a book; I don\u2019t know who would want to read that one. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, here\u2019s the point\u2014what you\u2019ve shared in this book\u2014which is not called <em>Ben\u2019s Big Dumpster Fire<\/em>\u2014it\u2019s <em>Single, Dating, Engaged, Married<\/em> by Ben Stuart. What you\u2019ve done in here is\u2014you\u2019ve shared enough of your story that we can learn from the good, the bad, the ugly; but you\u2019ve also brought it to bear in modern culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would love to think that\u2014starting in high school, and all the way through the 20s and into the 30s, if it goes that long\u2014people are reading this, going back, and reading it again. As you said, Dave, reading it in community, with other people\u2014making this something that they\u2019re spending time\u2014this is a gift you\u2019ve given.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I was just going to say, \u201cWhat a gift,\u201d\u2014and not just the singles\u2014but think of parents\u2014to get a tool like this to help their kids do it right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; and it\u2019s inspiring, Ben. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Well, thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s inspiring to hear your story\u2014and how, maybe, it didn\u2019t start out right\u2014but man, you\u2019ve done a really good job. I love that, what you\u2019ve learned, you\u2019re giving away. Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ben:<\/strong> Oh, thanks, guys.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, and we are giving away copies of Ben\u2019s book today to those listeners, who can help support the ministry of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> with a donation. Those of you, who are regular listeners, who value what this program is all about and what this ministry is all about, you make it possible when you donate to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014our resources, our events, our website; this daily program available on your local radio station, stations all across the country, on the FamilyLife app, online\u2014all of that happens because folks, like you, say, \u201cThis is important for us and for our community, and we want to make sure it continues.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you make a donation today to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, you can request a copy of Ben\u2019s book, <em>Single, Dating, Engaged, Married: Navigating Life and Love in the Modern Age<\/em>. It\u2019s our gift to you to say, \u201cThank you for your ongoing support of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u201d Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; click the button that says \u201cDonate\u201d; make an online donation, and request the book. Or call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014ask for your copy of Ben Stuart\u2019s book and make your donation over the phone. Again, the number is 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I found myself reflecting, in our conversation with Ben today, about all of the different responses to the whole issue of dating over the last 25 years\u2014whether we kiss it goodbye or whether we embrace it\u2014\u201cWhat\u2019s it supposed to look like?\u201d \u201cWhat\u2019s the best way to navigate it?\u201d It\u2019s tricky; we want to make sure our kids aren\u2019t being damaged in this culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid Robbins, who is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> is here with me. Dating\u2019s a minefield, and knowing how to walk our kids through it is a challenge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> It\u2019s insightful to actually learn\u2014currently, people who are dating: \u201cHow are they experiencing the current dating script?\u201d People are so unhappy with it; they\u2019re willing to admit it. Researcher, Donna Freitas, did some extensive research on attitudes concerning the casual dating culture that\u2019s so prevalent today. Forty-one percent of people, 18-25, said they were profoundly unhappy with the current dating script. Also, a majority of them said they feel like they don\u2019t have another way to go; there is no other script to pursue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOver recent years, I\u2019ve noticed\u2014with my friends and with Millennials that we\u2019ve worked with directly\u2014one of the biggest needs is clarity in communication as you date. This isn\u2019t a new topic, obviously; it\u2019s always been something, but I think more than ever. This is one of those things that Ben points to in his book that is one of those areas to really double down on; because romantic comedies make us think that the guessing game\u2019s actually fun, and delightful, and is exciting; but it <em>isn\u2019t<\/em>. It actually creates turmoil and hardly <em>ever<\/em> works out well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe need to relearn how to lead and respond in communication, and Ben\u2019s book is great for that. It\u2019s not just good for general dating advice; there\u2019s some <em>amazing<\/em> stuff in there around communication.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, and his model\u2014what he did, in sitting down with his girlfriend and saying, \u201cHere\u2019s what I\u2019m thinking. Here\u2019s where I\u2019m headed. Here\u2019s what I have in mind,\u201d\u2014just a great model so that there\u2019s not ambiguity in what\u2019s happening in these relationships. That\u2019s a great point David. Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I want to encourage our listeners to be in prayer for couples, all across the country, who will be joining us this weekend at one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways. Mary Ann and I are going to a getaway this weekend. We\u2019re going to be in Plano, Texas, for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> that\u2019s happening there this weekend. Also, there\u2019s a getaway in Sugarland, Texas\u2014just outside of Houston\u2014and one in Las Vegas, Nevada. Again, pray for the hundreds of couples, who will be a part of this weekend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou might start thinking, now, about the fall season. Block out a weekend when the two of you can get away and invest in your marriage, sometime, this fall. Find out dates and locations\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend. I hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend, and I hope you can join us on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk about the things your kids do that trigger you\u2014you know, that provoke anger in you. I mean, I know Ephesians 4 says, \u201cFather\u2019s don\u2019t provoke your children to anger,\u201d but what about when our kids provoke us to anger? What do we do with that? Amber Lia and Wendy Speake will be here to talk about that. I hope you can join us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/305065","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305065"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305065"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305065"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305065"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=305065"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=305065"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=305065"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}