{"id":305053,"date":"2019-05-30T06:00:04","date_gmt":"2019-05-30T10:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/how-to-make-a-marriage-work\/"},"modified":"2019-05-30T06:00:04","modified_gmt":"2019-05-30T10:00:04","slug":"how-to-make-a-marriage-work","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-to-make-a-marriage-work\/","title":{"rendered":"How to Make a Marriage Work"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Chip Ingram explains the difference between a marriage covenant and a marriage contract. Ingram reminds us that conflicts and challenges are normal in any marriage, but they don&#8217;t have to break up the union.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-30.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:39","filesize":"24.41M","filesize_raw":"25593464","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2082,2860,2820,2862],"tags":[6637,6638],"podcast_series":[8278],"cwp_profile":[3049],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305053","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-communication","category-hardship-and-suffering","category-lifelong-marriages","category-understanding-differences","tag-how-to-make-a-marriage-work","tag-marriage-that-works","podcast_series-marriage-that-works","cwp_profile-chip-ingram","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305053\/how-to-make-a-marriage-work","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305053\/how-to-make-a-marriage-work","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"0vizkHOnjw\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-to-make-a-marriage-work\/\">How to Make a Marriage Work<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-to-make-a-marriage-work\/embed\/#?secret=0vizkHOnjw\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;How to Make a Marriage Work&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"0vizkHOnjw\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-30.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-30.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, May 30<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. How can we get from a self-focused\/self-centered orientation on marriage to the kind of marriage where we are regarding each other as more important than ourselves? We\u2019ll spend time talking about that today with Chip Ingram. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019re talking about something pretty important this week; aren\u2019t we? We\u2019re talking about how to make marriage work. I\u2019m thinking folks should recognize: \u201cWell, this is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. I guess that\u2019s one of the things we talk about regularly\u201d; but this is critical\u2014not just for our happiness\u2014this is critical, as we\u2019ve said, for our culture\/for our flourishing, as people. We\u2019ve got to figure out how to make marriage work; our survival depends on it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and I think, as we know, so many people don\u2019t think it works. They\u2019ve given up\u2014they\u2019re marrying later; they are not getting married. They\u2019ve looked at our generation\u2019s marriages and said: \u201cIt <em>doesn\u2019t<\/em> work. Show me that it does.\u201d That\u2019s what this book talks about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> People are desperate for answers. They\u2019re looking for hope, and they don\u2019t know where to find it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, we brought the Answer Man in today, and that\u2019s Chip Ingram. Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> That\u2019s an intimidating introduction. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ooh, I like\u2014the Answer Man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> The Answer Man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m thrilled to be here; and God does have the answers. I\u2019m glad to pass along some of them as best I can. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, the reason I referred to you as the Answer Man is because Dave Wilson told me that he\u2019s stolen most of what you\u2019ve written on this subject and preached it at his church; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It works, man\u2014I tell you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Amen. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know good stuff, and Chips stuff is good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s really good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I did give him credit\u2014I always did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Chip is a pastor, and an author, and a speaker. He heads a ministry called <em>Living on the Edge<\/em> for years; gave leadership to Walk Thru the Bible; and has written a book called <em>Marriage That Works<\/em>, where he\u2019s going to help all of us understand what it is that makes a marriage work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs we\u2019ve already said, that\u2019s something that a lot of people really have questions about. There are a lot of people, who are 24 years old today, attracted to somebody, thinking, \u201cI would like to be married,\u201d but they have zero confidence that, if they were to have a wedding, that that they could sustain it; because they have not seen it modeled well for them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Really true; and I think\u2014not only not modeled\u2014is you, at least, get a little bit of training in a job; and you know your expectations. If I\u2019m going to, you know, work\u2014at Google, or Microsoft, or eBay, or someplace like where I live\u2014boy, I mean, it\u2019s really clear: \u201cThis is role. This is what we want you to do. Here\u2019s your skill set.\u201d The profile that they go through to align that person\u2014you go into marriage\u2014it\u2019s like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We don\u2019t have job descriptions; do we? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> No; we don\u2019t. Well, at least\u2014we actually <em>do<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> \u2014but we are unaware of them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve ignored them; we haven\u2019t paid attention to them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, your old professor, Howard Hendricks, used to say: \u201cIn the city of Dallas, if you want to be a garbage collector, you have to go through a three-week course in order to learn how to be a garbage collector.\u201d He said, \u201cIf you want to get married, you just go down to the courthouse, pay $35 and grunt; and they\u2019ll give you a license for that. [Laughter] It takes more training and expertise to be a garbage collector than it does to be a husband or a wife.\u201d Yet, this is what society is founded on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things you say is that we\u2019ve got to recognize that how marriage works is counterintuitive. The way we <em>think<\/em> it\u2019s going to work\u2014the way we would naturally kind of reflexively approach how we get to oneness in marriage\u2014is not the way that it\u2019s going to work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, our intuition in every relationship\u2014we\u2019re human\u2014is: \u201cWhat can I get? Meet my needs. Love me.\u201d We\u2019re attracted; and usually, opposites attract: \u201cMeet my needs, and I\u2019m in this as long as you meet my needs,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s a social contract. God\u2019s counter-intuitive design is\u2014this is going to sound so crazy: \u201cI want you to make the <em>other<\/em> person\u2019s needs your goal. Love them. Be a giver instead of a getter. Become sensitive and a student of them, and make <em>their<\/em> life work.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat sounds good; but number one, it\u2019s impossible apart from supernatural help; but that is His design. I think behind that design is\u2014it really is supernatural. There is something <em>so<\/em> beautiful when you meet a couple that are outdoing one another in really caring for one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were joking earlier that I am a selfish person. Even after 40 years\u2014I\u2019ve changed a lot\u2014but I\u2019m still, down deep in my heart\u2014apart from giving God the opportunity to work through my life, I\u2019m going to be selfish. So, that counter-intuitive approach is really difficult, but it\u2019s what makes it so exciting. It\u2019s what\u2014you know, Jesus said: \u201cGive and it will be given unto you, good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, back into your lap. Whatever measure you give, it\u2019s given to you in return.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo often, people quote that\u2014it\u2019s not a financial passage\u2014the context: it\u2019s a relational passage. When you <em>give<\/em> to the other person, God does amazing things; but boy, getting to understand that and do it, now, there\u2019s the journey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, talk about the\u2014you mentioned it\u2014the covenant sort of versus the contract; because we live in a contract era, and it\u2019s transactional. Covenant is a <em>whole<\/em> different deal. Talk about what that means for a marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> The Hebrew word for covenant means \u201cto cut.\u201d It\u2019s the idea, actually, of blood flowing. There are a number of covenants\u2014whether it\u2019s Noah, or Abraham, Moses, or Jesus\/the new covenant. There\u2019s a vow, and there are conditions. There is a sign; then, it\u2019s ratified by blood. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA covenant is making the most serious guarantee\u2014it\u2019s the point: \u201cI am going to keep my word, and I would rather <em>die<\/em> than break my word.\u201d I think someone has said, \u201cIt\u2019s an irrevocable commitment to an imperfect person.\u201d When you go into it like that, your mindset about how you address everything changes, Dave. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What happens when the person that you\u2019re married to\u2014you made the vow\u2014they don\u2019t fulfill the covenant? They are not loving you\u2014they are not serving you; they are not even invested in the relationship at all\u2014or your family or kids\u2014nothing. How does that spouse respond? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> With, first, great pain\u2014usually with anger\u2014often, they feel like: \u201cJust forget it! It\u2019s never going to work.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will say that one person can change a marriage. I would say\/my wife would say\u2014I think she did. We got to a <em>huge<\/em> impasse, and I think it was our commitment to the Lord; but I think, when you are in that situation, one, it\u2019s really, really, really hard; and you need some outside support and some encouragement; but then I think it\u2019s <em>choosing<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe live in a day where so much of what we see and hear\u2014that love is this <em>feeling<\/em>, and my expectations, and I <em>feel<\/em> good. I like the definition of love that is: \u201cLove is giving another person what they need the most when they deserve it the least at great personal cost.\u201d That\u2019s where the rubber meets the road. I often say: \u201cWhen Jesus was in the garden, He did not, emotionally, want to die for me. He didn\u2019t feel good about what I needed most.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> In fact, He was praying, \u201cFather, if it\u2019s possible\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201ctake this cup from Me\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Exactly: \u201cIf there is a Plan B that, in Our infinite wisdom, We didn\u2019t think of\u2014let\u2019s do it <em>now<\/em>.\u201d The fact of the matter is that love really is a choice. I think the choice to endure\u2014to get help\u2014and I think, sometimes, it is: \u201cHoney, this isn\u2019t working. We need help. We need to go to counseling,\u201d or \u201cIf you won\u2019t go, I will because I\u2019m not going to stay in this situation the way it is currently operating.\u201d Those are tough times, and sounds like you all have been through some of those as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We have; and you and Theresa went through some real difficulties, early in your marriage. How did you get out? You put God first\u2014you said that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014but practically speaking, what other things did you do? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Okay; well, number one, we went to counseling. Second, in counseling, what we realized was we had tons of baggage. I didn\u2019t understand her; we couldn\u2019t communicate. I had expectations that were completely idealistic, and we believed lies. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI believed, if things weren\u2019t feeling great, I must have married the wrong person. I believed marriage should be easy if you\u2019re really in love. I believed that, if you love Jesus, then God will just magic-wand it; and you\u2019re going to have awesome everything. The opposite of all that was what I was experiencing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we went to counseling\u2014I\u2019ll never forget our counselor\u2014he was a pastor. He had us write down the lies on cards. Then, at the bottom of the card\/3 by 5 card, we actually colored it in red; and we wrote\/made a stop sign. Then, we flipped it over; and there was a truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What were some of your lies? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> One of the lies was that, if you really loved one another, the marriage shouldn\u2019t be difficult and painful. We actually\u2014with the book, we came up with 20 truth cards; because I reviewed them for 2 years on the couch, with my wife, out loud as we went through counseling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You read them out loud? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> \u2014together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You were reprogramming the bad data\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Exactly right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that had been imprinted on to your hard drive. You had to go back in and say: \u201cWe\u2019ve got a lot of bad code here. We need to write new code.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m guessing you didn\u2019t even feel like doing that sometimes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Oh no; no. [Laughter] It was like\u2014it really was a choice; because: \u201cI made a covenant, and it\u2019s not working. This guy says this is the problem,\u201d and I had to admit it was true. Trying hard doesn\u2019t necessarily change behavior like\u2014try, try, try, try, try hard; it\u2019s in the renewing of your mind. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, if you love each other and love Jesus, marriage should be easy\u2014if that\u2019s a lie, what\u2019s the truth? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> The truth is: \u201cIn marriages that work, couples believe that conflict and challenges with finances, in-laws, sex, children, and communication are normal; and they result in heart-makers, not deal-breakers.\u201d So, you just realize those are the things that\u2014when you get them out on the table, and you learn some skills, and you realize you\u2019re different, and you talk them through, and you forgive and accept one another\u2014\u201cOkay; yes; your parents make me nuts,\u201d or \u201cWow, my expectations of sex were really different than yours,\u201d and all those things are\u2014over time, they are heart-makers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI see couples\u2014you have to make time. If you don\u2019t know how to communicate, we have three little questions that we learn\u2014I put them in the book\u2014and three times a week, like, after dinner, we would sit down and you ask these three questions. You ask them, and then you can\u2019t talk; so you say, \u201cWhat do you wish?\u201d The person just\u2014it was really hard\u2014you like put duct-tape on your mouth. Then, she says, \u201cWhat do you wish?\u201d\u2014and she can\u2019t interrupt. \u201cWhat are you concerned about?\u201d\u2014and then, you do the same thing. Then, the last question is: \u201cWhat are you willing to do?\u201d And there\u2019s a rule: \u201cYou don\u2019t have to do anything.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose three questions we did three times a week; but in that time, you\u2019re not talking about the problems. You\u2019re not talking about work; you\u2019re not talking about the kids. Here\u2019s what happens\u2014your mate says, \u201cHere are all the weights that I am carrying,\u201d\u2014they don\u2019t all have to be serious\u2014\u201cand here is where you could blow some wind into my sails.\u201d In 15 minutes after dinner, even when the kids are small: \u201cHey, just go play; go play.\u201d Then, \u201cWhat are you willing to do?\u201d \u201cI\u2019m willing to take over the homework for all the math and the science, because I feel like that\u2019s weighing you down.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, my point is\u2014there are some tools that you can learn, and you grow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When our kids were little, Dave would come in the door; and he\u2019s exhausted; I\u2019m exhausted. We have three kids under five. He needed a break; I needed a break, and we would <em>fight<\/em> about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I needed a break more\u2014there\u2019s no question. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There\u2019s always that time that you think, \u201cMy life is much harder than yours.\u201d Then, you get in this competitive mode; but I\u2019ll never forget when Dave said: \u201cHow would it be for you if I just, when I came home, I gave you an hour? Go do what you want\u2014go work out; go to the gym; go\u2014just get away.\u201d I wanted to fall on my knees and cry, and that made me want to give back, like: \u201cHow can I serve you? What can I do for <em>you<\/em>?\u201d\u2014just that gesture, and it <em>wasn\u2019t<\/em> easy because <em>you<\/em> were exhausted. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It was\u2014I remember figuring that out\u2014just like you said, Chip\u2014and thinking: \u201cThis is a godly response. This isn\u2019t what I want to do. My flesh doesn\u2019t want to do it. This is honoring her unto reverence for Christ.\u201d I did it, not even really caring if it was going to respond in her loving me back; but yes, it really was a sacrificial act that I\u2019m glad, now, looking back\u2014it changed our marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> I would go back to your comment about \u201cWhat do you do when your mate isn\u2019t responding?\u201d This is how one person changes a relationship. You actually see a need; you don\u2019t feel like it\u2014you do it. It\u2019s not like: \u201cYou know what? If nothing happens\u2026\u201d There were times I chose to do something for Theresa\u2014and I\u2019m sure her for me, a lot more\u2014\u201cThis is my act of worship for you, whether anything happens or not.\u201d It was in those kind of things that, wow\u2014I mean, the response was like, \u201cI wish I would have known this, like, five years ago!\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love that you said it\u2019s an act of worship; because when your spouse doesn\u2019t deserve it and you don\u2019t want to, you are doing it unto the Lord; and He\u2019s celebrating; He\u2019s watching. He\u2019s saying: \u201cWay to go! That does bring Me glory,\u201d and \u201cI see your obedience.\u201d There\u2019s something to that that gives you meaning when I\u2019m cleaning the toilets and I\u2019m, you know, it\u2019s like, \u201cGod sees this,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s something encouraging. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> I think He gives favor\u2014you know, God <em>blesses<\/em> obedience. I think, when He sees you loving in ways with no expectation and it\u2019s hard\u2014yet, you don\u2019t feel fulfilled, and you do it unto Him\u2014and by the way, the key is perseverance. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> My verse, Hebrews 10:36, says, \u201cFor you have need of endurance, so that once you have done the will of God, you might receive what is promised.\u201d The word is <em>hupomeno<\/em>. It means to be under pressure from stress. It\u2019s how God changes us; but I think there are a lot of people that want: \u201cHey, you know; man, I\u2019ve been kind to him for three days in a row, and he\u2019s still a jerk,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> \u2014or vice versa. The quick fix\u2014it really isn\u2019t\u2014it really is a journey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I had a woman come up to me to have Dave and [me] sign a book that we had written. She pulled me over to the side; she whispered in my ear, \u201cHey, I want you to know I finally get it.\u201d I said, \u201cWhat do you mean?\u201d She said: \u201cI\u2019ve been married 35 years. Probably the last 32 years, all of I\u2019ve done was gripe and complain, in my head, about my husband. He\u2019s not a believer. He doesn\u2019t notice me; he doesn\u2019t come to church; he doesn\u2019t do anything; he really doesn\u2019t help with the kids; but the more I\u2019ve grown in my walk with God, I\u2019m seeing him different. I\u2019m seeing how God made him and God put some good things into this man. For the first time in my life, I\u2019ve been telling him: \u2018Look at you! Look at how you are such a hard worker. You\u2019re so faithful.\u2019\u201d She said, \u201cI\u2019m finding this joy that I\u2019ve never had in my marriage.\u201d I thought, \u201cWow; that is miraculous.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> That really is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s also counterintuitive, which is what we\u2019re talking about; because, if we go with our gut on marriage, the Bible speaks to that\u2014there is a way that <em>seems<\/em> right to a man, and the end there of is\u2014what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> \u2014death. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014death. So, if you go, \u201cI\u2019m just going to go with the flow in marriage,\u201d\u2014instead of that\u2014 we\u2019ve got to not be conformed to the thinking of this world but be transformed by the renewing of our mind. I\u2019m going to Romans 12, because I know you\u2019ve <em>lived<\/em> a lot in Romans 12. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> You bet. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But that idea of being transformed by the renewing of our mind is foundational to everything; isn\u2019t it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> The end of that verse says, \u201c\u2026so that you can\u201d\u2014actually\u2014\u201ctest and experience God\u2019s will\u2014the good, acceptable, the great will of God.\u201d That\u2019s what He wants for people\u2014He wants us to have great marriages. He has a plan, and it is counterintuitive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s like: \u201cHey, try being selfless instead of selfish. How about honoring Me instead of idols?\u201d It requires a lot of hard work; but as we\u2019ve all shared\u2014wow, the reward is beyond your wildest dreams; because marriage is the context in which children thrive. I mean, if you did <em>nothing<\/em> for your kids\u2014I mean, if you didn\u2019t let them go to school, if you never\u2014I guess you have to feed them\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but if you didn\u2019t do <em>anything<\/em> for your kids and they saw two people love each other and love God genuinely and richly\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> \u2014all that psychological stuff that I had to study about self-image, and social skills, and all of the things that really make people successful in life\u2014they really pick up, intuitively, from folks who love each other. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s so true. I just saw this couple the other day\u2014they were debating whether they should do public school, homeschool, private school. They were so worried. They don\u2019t want their kids to ever play with anyone else\u2014they are so protective\u2014yet, their marriage is so destructive. They are yelling at each other; they are calling each other names. I don\u2019t have the relationship that I could speak into them; but I told Dave\u2014like, \u201cThey put so much energy into protecting their kids; and the best way to protect their kids is to love each other,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand to let their kids see that,\u201d\u2014that brings such security. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDo you think that the generation coming up\u2014that\u2019s dealing with so much depression\/so much anxiety\u2014are our marriages affecting that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> We did some research at <em>Living on the Edge<\/em> to find out why 68 to 70 percent of our evangelical, Bible-believing kids are leaving the faith 5 years afterwards. If you want kids to really walk with God, here are three things: Number one, their parents live out their faith authentically. It\u2019s not something\u2014they go to church, or just believe the Bible, or send you to a Christian school, or\u2014I mean, there is a dynamic, living relationship in the home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber two, the child, early on, isn\u2019t sitting around the table with someone feeding them all the time; but they develop their own personal relationship and walk with God in some way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Number three, instead of being a participant, they actually are serving in the church. They experience God\u2019s grace working through them; and maybe, they are in junior high, helping a three-year-old; or maybe, they are in high school, helping a junior higher; or they are building a house in the community for Habitat for Humanity or something. When kids experience God and see it, they can go away to school; and they understand there are a lot of other worldviews, but the <em>reality<\/em> has gripped their life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen it\u2019s a set of ideas that Mom and Dad believe that aren\u2019t really challenged in my little world, and the first sociology professor starts talking about everything that Christianity is\u2014and bad, and ugly, and wrong\u2014and all your friends are sleeping with each other, pretty soon, it\u2019s a lot easier to be an agnostic. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think the point you\u2019re making is: \u201cOur marriage matters to more than just us and our happiness. There is a lot more at stake in how we do in marriage. And if you love your kids, then you\u2019ve got to figure out how to make marriage work. And if you care about the culture and the future, then you\u2019ve got to make your marriage work. There is <em>so<\/em> much more at stake here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is so what Chip\u2019s been saying all day\u2014it\u2019s like: \u201cIt\u2019s not about me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It really isn\u2019t. That\u2019s hard to admit that. It\u2019s bigger than me\u2014it\u2019s a legacy; it\u2019s a generation. I mean, it\u2019s almost like you\u2019ve got to step back every day and say: \u201cI\u2019m not just trying to be happy here. I am, literally, building something that could last for generations. It\u2019s that powerful to make my marriage work God\u2019s way.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, if you want to find out how to make a marriage work, one way to do that is get a copy of the book Chip has written called <em>Marriage That Works<\/em>. We\u2019ve got it in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. In fact, I\u2019m just sitting here thinking about how this book parallels and connects with the book that the two of you have written, called <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>. There is a lot of overlap here, but I think couples would benefit from reading both books together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got copies of both <em>Marriage That Works<\/em> and <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order either or both books from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order. Again, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order <em>Marriage That Works<\/em> by Chip Ingram or <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> by Dave and Ann Wilson. Call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, here in the closing days of the month of May, we\u2019re asking <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners to consider making either a one-time gift or becoming a monthly Legacy Partner. We have a matching gift that is in place at the moment, and we\u2019re trying to take full advantage of all the funds that are available to us\u2014$645,000 in that matching-gift fund. So, we\u2019re asking you to either make a one-time gift or become a monthly Legacy Partner. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you do become a monthly Legacy Partner, your donation is going to be matched, dollar for dollar, for the next 12 months every time you make a donation. In addition, we\u2019re going to send you a gift card so that you, or someone you know, can attend a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> David Robbins is here with us today. David, it\u2019s interesting to see who some of our Legacy Partners are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; we like covering things that relate to every home out there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; every family\/every relationship within an extended family; you\u2019re right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Absolutely. So, one of our Legacy Partners said this: \u201cFamilyLife has been a tremendous blessing to me. Even though I\u2019ve been single all my life, I\u2019ve been blessed; and I have passed on a lot of information to family and friends; and I\u2019m still waiting and continuing to be blessed by <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you hear \u201cpassed on information,\u201d that\u2019s what gets you excited; isn\u2019t it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> It does. I mean, I really do believe, Bob, that families are the most\u2014one of the most untapped resources on the planet to help fulfill the Great Commission and cause societal change. I <em>love<\/em> it when people are growing from isolation closer to God\/closer to their family; but it doesn\u2019t just stop there. It actually leads toward impacting others. Nothing gets me more excited than seeing someone pass on the way <em>they<\/em> have been transformed and helping the transformation of someone else. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, we want to ask <em>you<\/em> to be a part of what God is doing through the ministry of FamilyLife\u2014either make a one-time donation or become a monthly Legacy Partner\u2014and help us take advantage of this matching-gift opportunity. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and donate, online; or sign up as a Legacy Partner, online; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make your donation. Again, please pray that we would take full advantage of this matching gift; and whatever you can do to help make that happen, we would be grateful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back, again, tomorrow. Chip Ingram will be here again, and we\u2019ll continue our conversation about marriages that work\u2014talking tomorrow about a husband\u2019s responsibility to nourish and cherish his wife and a wife\u2019s responsibility to affirm and support her husband. That\u2019s right out of Ephesians 5. We\u2019ll talk about it tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:39"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.41M"],"filesize_raw":["25593464"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305053.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305053.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Ingram explains the difference between a marriage covenant and a marriage contract. Ingram reminds us that conflicts and challenges are normal in any marriage, but they don't have to break up the union.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-30.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, May 30<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. How can we get from a self-focused\/self-centered orientation on marriage to the kind of marriage where we are regarding each other as more important than ourselves? We\u2019ll spend time talking about that today with Chip Ingram. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019re talking about something pretty important this week; aren\u2019t we? We\u2019re talking about how to make marriage work. I\u2019m thinking folks should recognize: \u201cWell, this is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. I guess that\u2019s one of the things we talk about regularly\u201d; but this is critical\u2014not just for our happiness\u2014this is critical, as we\u2019ve said, for our culture\/for our flourishing, as people. We\u2019ve got to figure out how to make marriage work; our survival depends on it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and I think, as we know, so many people don\u2019t think it works. They\u2019ve given up\u2014they\u2019re marrying later; they are not getting married. They\u2019ve looked at our generation\u2019s marriages and said: \u201cIt <em>doesn\u2019t<\/em> work. Show me that it does.\u201d That\u2019s what this book talks about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> People are desperate for answers. They\u2019re looking for hope, and they don\u2019t know where to find it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, we brought the Answer Man in today, and that\u2019s Chip Ingram. Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> That\u2019s an intimidating introduction. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ooh, I like\u2014the Answer Man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> The Answer Man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m thrilled to be here; and God does have the answers. I\u2019m glad to pass along some of them as best I can. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, the reason I referred to you as the Answer Man is because Dave Wilson told me that he\u2019s stolen most of what you\u2019ve written on this subject and preached it at his church; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It works, man\u2014I tell you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Amen. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know good stuff, and Chips stuff is good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s really good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I did give him credit\u2014I always did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Chip is a pastor, and an author, and a speaker. He heads a ministry called <em>Living on the Edge<\/em> for years; gave leadership to Walk Thru the Bible; and has written a book called <em>Marriage That Works<\/em>, where he\u2019s going to help all of us understand what it is that makes a marriage work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs we\u2019ve already said, that\u2019s something that a lot of people really have questions about. There are a lot of people, who are 24 years old today, attracted to somebody, thinking, \u201cI would like to be married,\u201d but they have zero confidence that, if they were to have a wedding, that that they could sustain it; because they have not seen it modeled well for them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Really true; and I think\u2014not only not modeled\u2014is you, at least, get a little bit of training in a job; and you know your expectations. If I\u2019m going to, you know, work\u2014at Google, or Microsoft, or eBay, or someplace like where I live\u2014boy, I mean, it\u2019s really clear: \u201cThis is role. This is what we want you to do. Here\u2019s your skill set.\u201d The profile that they go through to align that person\u2014you go into marriage\u2014it\u2019s like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We don\u2019t have job descriptions; do we? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> No; we don\u2019t. Well, at least\u2014we actually <em>do<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> \u2014but we are unaware of them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve ignored them; we haven\u2019t paid attention to them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, your old professor, Howard Hendricks, used to say: \u201cIn the city of Dallas, if you want to be a garbage collector, you have to go through a three-week course in order to learn how to be a garbage collector.\u201d He said, \u201cIf you want to get married, you just go down to the courthouse, pay $35 and grunt; and they\u2019ll give you a license for that. [Laughter] It takes more training and expertise to be a garbage collector than it does to be a husband or a wife.\u201d Yet, this is what society is founded on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things you say is that we\u2019ve got to recognize that how marriage works is counterintuitive. The way we <em>think<\/em> it\u2019s going to work\u2014the way we would naturally kind of reflexively approach how we get to oneness in marriage\u2014is not the way that it\u2019s going to work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, our intuition in every relationship\u2014we\u2019re human\u2014is: \u201cWhat can I get? Meet my needs. Love me.\u201d We\u2019re attracted; and usually, opposites attract: \u201cMeet my needs, and I\u2019m in this as long as you meet my needs,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s a social contract. God\u2019s counter-intuitive design is\u2014this is going to sound so crazy: \u201cI want you to make the <em>other<\/em> person\u2019s needs your goal. Love them. Be a giver instead of a getter. Become sensitive and a student of them, and make <em>their<\/em> life work.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat sounds good; but number one, it\u2019s impossible apart from supernatural help; but that is His design. I think behind that design is\u2014it really is supernatural. There is something <em>so<\/em> beautiful when you meet a couple that are outdoing one another in really caring for one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were joking earlier that I am a selfish person. Even after 40 years\u2014I\u2019ve changed a lot\u2014but I\u2019m still, down deep in my heart\u2014apart from giving God the opportunity to work through my life, I\u2019m going to be selfish. So, that counter-intuitive approach is really difficult, but it\u2019s what makes it so exciting. It\u2019s what\u2014you know, Jesus said: \u201cGive and it will be given unto you, good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, back into your lap. Whatever measure you give, it\u2019s given to you in return.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo often, people quote that\u2014it\u2019s not a financial passage\u2014the context: it\u2019s a relational passage. When you <em>give<\/em> to the other person, God does amazing things; but boy, getting to understand that and do it, now, there\u2019s the journey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, talk about the\u2014you mentioned it\u2014the covenant sort of versus the contract; because we live in a contract era, and it\u2019s transactional. Covenant is a <em>whole<\/em> different deal. Talk about what that means for a marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> The Hebrew word for covenant means \u201cto cut.\u201d It\u2019s the idea, actually, of blood flowing. There are a number of covenants\u2014whether it\u2019s Noah, or Abraham, Moses, or Jesus\/the new covenant. There\u2019s a vow, and there are conditions. There is a sign; then, it\u2019s ratified by blood. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA covenant is making the most serious guarantee\u2014it\u2019s the point: \u201cI am going to keep my word, and I would rather <em>die<\/em> than break my word.\u201d I think someone has said, \u201cIt\u2019s an irrevocable commitment to an imperfect person.\u201d When you go into it like that, your mindset about how you address everything changes, Dave. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What happens when the person that you\u2019re married to\u2014you made the vow\u2014they don\u2019t fulfill the covenant? They are not loving you\u2014they are not serving you; they are not even invested in the relationship at all\u2014or your family or kids\u2014nothing. How does that spouse respond? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> With, first, great pain\u2014usually with anger\u2014often, they feel like: \u201cJust forget it! It\u2019s never going to work.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will say that one person can change a marriage. I would say\/my wife would say\u2014I think she did. We got to a <em>huge<\/em> impasse, and I think it was our commitment to the Lord; but I think, when you are in that situation, one, it\u2019s really, really, really hard; and you need some outside support and some encouragement; but then I think it\u2019s <em>choosing<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe live in a day where so much of what we see and hear\u2014that love is this <em>feeling<\/em>, and my expectations, and I <em>feel<\/em> good. I like the definition of love that is: \u201cLove is giving another person what they need the most when they deserve it the least at great personal cost.\u201d That\u2019s where the rubber meets the road. I often say: \u201cWhen Jesus was in the garden, He did not, emotionally, want to die for me. He didn\u2019t feel good about what I needed most.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> In fact, He was praying, \u201cFather, if it\u2019s possible\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201ctake this cup from Me\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Exactly: \u201cIf there is a Plan B that, in Our infinite wisdom, We didn\u2019t think of\u2014let\u2019s do it <em>now<\/em>.\u201d The fact of the matter is that love really is a choice. I think the choice to endure\u2014to get help\u2014and I think, sometimes, it is: \u201cHoney, this isn\u2019t working. We need help. We need to go to counseling,\u201d or \u201cIf you won\u2019t go, I will because I\u2019m not going to stay in this situation the way it is currently operating.\u201d Those are tough times, and sounds like you all have been through some of those as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We have; and you and Theresa went through some real difficulties, early in your marriage. How did you get out? You put God first\u2014you said that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014but practically speaking, what other things did you do? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Okay; well, number one, we went to counseling. Second, in counseling, what we realized was we had tons of baggage. I didn\u2019t understand her; we couldn\u2019t communicate. I had expectations that were completely idealistic, and we believed lies. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI believed, if things weren\u2019t feeling great, I must have married the wrong person. I believed marriage should be easy if you\u2019re really in love. I believed that, if you love Jesus, then God will just magic-wand it; and you\u2019re going to have awesome everything. The opposite of all that was what I was experiencing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we went to counseling\u2014I\u2019ll never forget our counselor\u2014he was a pastor. He had us write down the lies on cards. Then, at the bottom of the card\/3 by 5 card, we actually colored it in red; and we wrote\/made a stop sign. Then, we flipped it over; and there was a truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What were some of your lies? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> One of the lies was that, if you really loved one another, the marriage shouldn\u2019t be difficult and painful. We actually\u2014with the book, we came up with 20 truth cards; because I reviewed them for 2 years on the couch, with my wife, out loud as we went through counseling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You read them out loud? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> \u2014together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You were reprogramming the bad data\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Exactly right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that had been imprinted on to your hard drive. You had to go back in and say: \u201cWe\u2019ve got a lot of bad code here. We need to write new code.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m guessing you didn\u2019t even feel like doing that sometimes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Oh no; no. [Laughter] It was like\u2014it really was a choice; because: \u201cI made a covenant, and it\u2019s not working. This guy says this is the problem,\u201d and I had to admit it was true. Trying hard doesn\u2019t necessarily change behavior like\u2014try, try, try, try, try hard; it\u2019s in the renewing of your mind. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, if you love each other and love Jesus, marriage should be easy\u2014if that\u2019s a lie, what\u2019s the truth? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> The truth is: \u201cIn marriages that work, couples believe that conflict and challenges with finances, in-laws, sex, children, and communication are normal; and they result in heart-makers, not deal-breakers.\u201d So, you just realize those are the things that\u2014when you get them out on the table, and you learn some skills, and you realize you\u2019re different, and you talk them through, and you forgive and accept one another\u2014\u201cOkay; yes; your parents make me nuts,\u201d or \u201cWow, my expectations of sex were really different than yours,\u201d and all those things are\u2014over time, they are heart-makers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI see couples\u2014you have to make time. If you don\u2019t know how to communicate, we have three little questions that we learn\u2014I put them in the book\u2014and three times a week, like, after dinner, we would sit down and you ask these three questions. You ask them, and then you can\u2019t talk; so you say, \u201cWhat do you wish?\u201d The person just\u2014it was really hard\u2014you like put duct-tape on your mouth. Then, she says, \u201cWhat do you wish?\u201d\u2014and she can\u2019t interrupt. \u201cWhat are you concerned about?\u201d\u2014and then, you do the same thing. Then, the last question is: \u201cWhat are you willing to do?\u201d And there\u2019s a rule: \u201cYou don\u2019t have to do anything.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose three questions we did three times a week; but in that time, you\u2019re not talking about the problems. You\u2019re not talking about work; you\u2019re not talking about the kids. Here\u2019s what happens\u2014your mate says, \u201cHere are all the weights that I am carrying,\u201d\u2014they don\u2019t all have to be serious\u2014\u201cand here is where you could blow some wind into my sails.\u201d In 15 minutes after dinner, even when the kids are small: \u201cHey, just go play; go play.\u201d Then, \u201cWhat are you willing to do?\u201d \u201cI\u2019m willing to take over the homework for all the math and the science, because I feel like that\u2019s weighing you down.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, my point is\u2014there are some tools that you can learn, and you grow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> When our kids were little, Dave would come in the door; and he\u2019s exhausted; I\u2019m exhausted. We have three kids under five. He needed a break; I needed a break, and we would <em>fight<\/em> about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I needed a break more\u2014there\u2019s no question. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There\u2019s always that time that you think, \u201cMy life is much harder than yours.\u201d Then, you get in this competitive mode; but I\u2019ll never forget when Dave said: \u201cHow would it be for you if I just, when I came home, I gave you an hour? Go do what you want\u2014go work out; go to the gym; go\u2014just get away.\u201d I wanted to fall on my knees and cry, and that made me want to give back, like: \u201cHow can I serve you? What can I do for <em>you<\/em>?\u201d\u2014just that gesture, and it <em>wasn\u2019t<\/em> easy because <em>you<\/em> were exhausted. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It was\u2014I remember figuring that out\u2014just like you said, Chip\u2014and thinking: \u201cThis is a godly response. This isn\u2019t what I want to do. My flesh doesn\u2019t want to do it. This is honoring her unto reverence for Christ.\u201d I did it, not even really caring if it was going to respond in her loving me back; but yes, it really was a sacrificial act that I\u2019m glad, now, looking back\u2014it changed our marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> I would go back to your comment about \u201cWhat do you do when your mate isn\u2019t responding?\u201d This is how one person changes a relationship. You actually see a need; you don\u2019t feel like it\u2014you do it. It\u2019s not like: \u201cYou know what? If nothing happens\u2026\u201d There were times I chose to do something for Theresa\u2014and I\u2019m sure her for me, a lot more\u2014\u201cThis is my act of worship for you, whether anything happens or not.\u201d It was in those kind of things that, wow\u2014I mean, the response was like, \u201cI wish I would have known this, like, five years ago!\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love that you said it\u2019s an act of worship; because when your spouse doesn\u2019t deserve it and you don\u2019t want to, you are doing it unto the Lord; and He\u2019s celebrating; He\u2019s watching. He\u2019s saying: \u201cWay to go! That does bring Me glory,\u201d and \u201cI see your obedience.\u201d There\u2019s something to that that gives you meaning when I\u2019m cleaning the toilets and I\u2019m, you know, it\u2019s like, \u201cGod sees this,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s something encouraging. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> I think He gives favor\u2014you know, God <em>blesses<\/em> obedience. I think, when He sees you loving in ways with no expectation and it\u2019s hard\u2014yet, you don\u2019t feel fulfilled, and you do it unto Him\u2014and by the way, the key is perseverance. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> My verse, Hebrews 10:36, says, \u201cFor you have need of endurance, so that once you have done the will of God, you might receive what is promised.\u201d The word is <em>hupomeno<\/em>. It means to be under pressure from stress. It\u2019s how God changes us; but I think there are a lot of people that want: \u201cHey, you know; man, I\u2019ve been kind to him for three days in a row, and he\u2019s still a jerk,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> \u2014or vice versa. The quick fix\u2014it really isn\u2019t\u2014it really is a journey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I had a woman come up to me to have Dave and [me] sign a book that we had written. She pulled me over to the side; she whispered in my ear, \u201cHey, I want you to know I finally get it.\u201d I said, \u201cWhat do you mean?\u201d She said: \u201cI\u2019ve been married 35 years. Probably the last 32 years, all of I\u2019ve done was gripe and complain, in my head, about my husband. He\u2019s not a believer. He doesn\u2019t notice me; he doesn\u2019t come to church; he doesn\u2019t do anything; he really doesn\u2019t help with the kids; but the more I\u2019ve grown in my walk with God, I\u2019m seeing him different. I\u2019m seeing how God made him and God put some good things into this man. For the first time in my life, I\u2019ve been telling him: \u2018Look at you! Look at how you are such a hard worker. You\u2019re so faithful.\u2019\u201d She said, \u201cI\u2019m finding this joy that I\u2019ve never had in my marriage.\u201d I thought, \u201cWow; that is miraculous.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> That really is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s also counterintuitive, which is what we\u2019re talking about; because, if we go with our gut on marriage, the Bible speaks to that\u2014there is a way that <em>seems<\/em> right to a man, and the end there of is\u2014what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> \u2014death. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014death. So, if you go, \u201cI\u2019m just going to go with the flow in marriage,\u201d\u2014instead of that\u2014 we\u2019ve got to not be conformed to the thinking of this world but be transformed by the renewing of our mind. I\u2019m going to Romans 12, because I know you\u2019ve <em>lived<\/em> a lot in Romans 12. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> You bet. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But that idea of being transformed by the renewing of our mind is foundational to everything; isn\u2019t it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> The end of that verse says, \u201c\u2026so that you can\u201d\u2014actually\u2014\u201ctest and experience God\u2019s will\u2014the good, acceptable, the great will of God.\u201d That\u2019s what He wants for people\u2014He wants us to have great marriages. He has a plan, and it is counterintuitive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s like: \u201cHey, try being selfless instead of selfish. How about honoring Me instead of idols?\u201d It requires a lot of hard work; but as we\u2019ve all shared\u2014wow, the reward is beyond your wildest dreams; because marriage is the context in which children thrive. I mean, if you did <em>nothing<\/em> for your kids\u2014I mean, if you didn\u2019t let them go to school, if you never\u2014I guess you have to feed them\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but if you didn\u2019t do <em>anything<\/em> for your kids and they saw two people love each other and love God genuinely and richly\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> \u2014all that psychological stuff that I had to study about self-image, and social skills, and all of the things that really make people successful in life\u2014they really pick up, intuitively, from folks who love each other. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s so true. I just saw this couple the other day\u2014they were debating whether they should do public school, homeschool, private school. They were so worried. They don\u2019t want their kids to ever play with anyone else\u2014they are so protective\u2014yet, their marriage is so destructive. They are yelling at each other; they are calling each other names. I don\u2019t have the relationship that I could speak into them; but I told Dave\u2014like, \u201cThey put so much energy into protecting their kids; and the best way to protect their kids is to love each other,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand to let their kids see that,\u201d\u2014that brings such security. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDo you think that the generation coming up\u2014that\u2019s dealing with so much depression\/so much anxiety\u2014are our marriages affecting that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Chip:<\/strong> We did some research at <em>Living on the Edge<\/em> to find out why 68 to 70 percent of our evangelical, Bible-believing kids are leaving the faith 5 years afterwards. If you want kids to really walk with God, here are three things: Number one, their parents live out their faith authentically. It\u2019s not something\u2014they go to church, or just believe the Bible, or send you to a Christian school, or\u2014I mean, there is a dynamic, living relationship in the home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber two, the child, early on, isn\u2019t sitting around the table with someone feeding them all the time; but they develop their own personal relationship and walk with God in some way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Number three, instead of being a participant, they actually are serving in the church. They experience God\u2019s grace working through them; and maybe, they are in junior high, helping a three-year-old; or maybe, they are in high school, helping a junior higher; or they are building a house in the community for Habitat for Humanity or something. When kids experience God and see it, they can go away to school; and they understand there are a lot of other worldviews, but the <em>reality<\/em> has gripped their life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen it\u2019s a set of ideas that Mom and Dad believe that aren\u2019t really challenged in my little world, and the first sociology professor starts talking about everything that Christianity is\u2014and bad, and ugly, and wrong\u2014and all your friends are sleeping with each other, pretty soon, it\u2019s a lot easier to be an agnostic. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think the point you\u2019re making is: \u201cOur marriage matters to more than just us and our happiness. There is a lot more at stake in how we do in marriage. And if you love your kids, then you\u2019ve got to figure out how to make marriage work. And if you care about the culture and the future, then you\u2019ve got to make your marriage work. There is <em>so<\/em> much more at stake here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is so what Chip\u2019s been saying all day\u2014it\u2019s like: \u201cIt\u2019s not about me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It really isn\u2019t. That\u2019s hard to admit that. It\u2019s bigger than me\u2014it\u2019s a legacy; it\u2019s a generation. I mean, it\u2019s almost like you\u2019ve got to step back every day and say: \u201cI\u2019m not just trying to be happy here. I am, literally, building something that could last for generations. It\u2019s that powerful to make my marriage work God\u2019s way.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, if you want to find out how to make a marriage work, one way to do that is get a copy of the book Chip has written called <em>Marriage That Works<\/em>. We\u2019ve got it in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. In fact, I\u2019m just sitting here thinking about how this book parallels and connects with the book that the two of you have written, called <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>. There is a lot of overlap here, but I think couples would benefit from reading both books together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got copies of both <em>Marriage That Works<\/em> and <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order either or both books from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order. Again, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order <em>Marriage That Works<\/em> by Chip Ingram or <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> by Dave and Ann Wilson. Call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, here in the closing days of the month of May, we\u2019re asking <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners to consider making either a one-time gift or becoming a monthly Legacy Partner. We have a matching gift that is in place at the moment, and we\u2019re trying to take full advantage of all the funds that are available to us\u2014$645,000 in that matching-gift fund. So, we\u2019re asking you to either make a one-time gift or become a monthly Legacy Partner. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you do become a monthly Legacy Partner, your donation is going to be matched, dollar for dollar, for the next 12 months every time you make a donation. In addition, we\u2019re going to send you a gift card so that you, or someone you know, can attend a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> David Robbins is here with us today. David, it\u2019s interesting to see who some of our Legacy Partners are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; we like covering things that relate to every home out there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; every family\/every relationship within an extended family; you\u2019re right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Absolutely. So, one of our Legacy Partners said this: \u201cFamilyLife has been a tremendous blessing to me. Even though I\u2019ve been single all my life, I\u2019ve been blessed; and I have passed on a lot of information to family and friends; and I\u2019m still waiting and continuing to be blessed by <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you hear \u201cpassed on information,\u201d that\u2019s what gets you excited; isn\u2019t it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> It does. I mean, I really do believe, Bob, that families are the most\u2014one of the most untapped resources on the planet to help fulfill the Great Commission and cause societal change. I <em>love<\/em> it when people are growing from isolation closer to God\/closer to their family; but it doesn\u2019t just stop there. It actually leads toward impacting others. Nothing gets me more excited than seeing someone pass on the way <em>they<\/em> have been transformed and helping the transformation of someone else. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, we want to ask <em>you<\/em> to be a part of what God is doing through the ministry of FamilyLife\u2014either make a one-time donation or become a monthly Legacy Partner\u2014and help us take advantage of this matching-gift opportunity. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and donate, online; or sign up as a Legacy Partner, online; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make your donation. Again, please pray that we would take full advantage of this matching gift; and whatever you can do to help make that happen, we would be grateful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back, again, tomorrow. Chip Ingram will be here again, and we\u2019ll continue our conversation about marriages that work\u2014talking tomorrow about a husband\u2019s responsibility to nourish and cherish his wife and a wife\u2019s responsibility to affirm and support her husband. That\u2019s right out of Ephesians 5. We\u2019ll talk about it tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/305053","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305053"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305053"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305053"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305053"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=305053"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=305053"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=305053"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}