{"id":305039,"date":"2019-05-23T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-05-23T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/living-in-a-leah-marriage\/"},"modified":"2019-05-23T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2019-05-23T15:00:00","slug":"living-in-a-leah-marriage","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/living-in-a-leah-marriage\/","title":{"rendered":"Living in a Leah Marriage"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Dave and Ann Wilson | Dave and Ann Wilson respond to a listener who wrote asking for guidance about her difficult marriage. The Wilsons offer hope and encouragement using the story of Leah&#8217;s experience as one of Jacob&#8217;s two wives.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dave and Ann Wilson respond to a listener&#8217;s difficult living situation by using the biblical story of Jacob&#8217;s wife Leah, to offer hope and encouragement.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-23.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:19","filesize":"25.02M","filesize_raw":"26238569","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2849,2860],"tags":[6629,5096,5036],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[3647],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305039","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-drifting-apart","category-hardship-and-suffering","tag-find-hope-in-a-loveless-marriage","tag-hope","tag-loneliness","cwp_profile-dave-and-ann-wilson","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305039\/living-in-a-leah-marriage","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305039\/living-in-a-leah-marriage","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"9rTRKPKnYy\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/living-in-a-leah-marriage\/\">Living in a Leah Marriage<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/living-in-a-leah-marriage\/embed\/#?secret=9rTRKPKnYy\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Living in a Leah Marriage&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"9rTRKPKnYy\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Dave and Ann Wilson respond to a listener's difficult living situation by using the biblical story of Jacob's wife Leah, to offer hope and encouragement.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-23.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, May 23<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. So, where do you find hope if you\u2019re in a loveless marriage and it feels like there\u2019s nowhere to turn? We\u2019ll talk more about that today. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. So, I\u2019ve decided you guys have had a free ride long enough; okay? It\u2019s just been\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> A free ride?!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It has been easy. We\u2019ve made this whole \u201cWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u201d thing pretty easy for you; haven\u2019t we?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, Bob, I have to be honest\u2014you have.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; I would <em>totally<\/em> agree.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re the best.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, today, we\u2019re going\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s going to end?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It ends right here, right now.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think I need to leave now. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No, no, no, no, no. Here\u2019s what I thought we\u2019d do. From time to time, listeners will get in touch with us, and they ask us hard questions\u2014I mean, things that you look at and you go: \u201cThat\u2019s a tough question,\u201d \u201cThat would be a tough circumstance\/a tough deal to live with.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> My wife is really good at hard questions. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How dare you put it on <em>me<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m so glad she is here.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to go\u2014I\u2019m going to go to the two pastors in the room. [Laughter] That\u2019s where I\u2019m going.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh boy.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You guys\u2014you have been in pastoral ministry for 30 years.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ann, you\u2019ve been right alongside, and you\u2019ve done a lot of counseling. You don\u2019t, probably, have sessions in your office, where people can sign up for counseling\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014but\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But on a day to day basis, there is a lot of counseling that goes on.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And we\u2019ve done\u2014every once and a while, we\u2019ll do Q &amp; A\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014from the audience; so they\u2019ll text in questions.\n\nYou want to hear something funny? The last time we did it, we were launching our book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>; and we had a launch night. Our son, who is a pastor at our church, took the questions.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, he was like the moderator reading the questions to you.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014looking at them and deciding which ones he\u2019s going to feed to us. He goes: \u201cYes; this is really fun. Ninety percent of these questions are on sex, so I get to ask my mom and dad sex questions.\u201d [Laughter] So, hopefully, Bob, that isn\u2019t what we\u2019re going to do today.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s not what we\u2019re going to deal with. I\u2019m going to read you an email that came recently\u2014and by the way, I\u2019ll just say to our listeners: \u201cIf you are living with hard circumstances, as a parent\/in your marriage\u2014things that you go, \u201cThese are things that I\u2019ve never heard folks address before,\u201d\u2014I can\u2019t guarantee that we\u2019ll answer them or that we\u2019ve got the right answer on these; but send us your questions, and we\u2019re going to read through them. From time to time, we\u2019ll do this\u2014we\u2019ll just share with you what one listener raised, as an issue, and see what kind of counsel you guys would give.\n\nAre you ready for the email today?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do we get graded on this? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There is no grade; there is no grade. The question is\u2014somebody writes and says: \u201cI enjoy your program. I do have a question that I don\u2019t hear anybody speaking about. What about the Leah\u2019s of the family?\u201d Leah is the reference to the Old Testament wife\u2014you know the story: Jacob loved Rachel; and Rachel\u2019s dad said, \u201cWell, if you want Rachel, you\u2019ve got to marry Leah first.\u201d So, she becomes the unwanted wife, living with a husband who didn\u2019t really want her in the first place.\n\nThis woman says:\n\nIn a Leah home, a husband is not interested in her or the children. I was listening to your program\u2014\n\n\u2014this was when you guys were talking about <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>\u2014\n\n\u2014about putting your spouse first; but my spouse has always made it clear that he never wanted me or our children and has no interest in our marriage. As time has gone on, he has been nicer to his children and has stopped hating me for ruining his life; but he still doesn\u2019t really speak to me. He rooms with me but has no real relationship and runs from any conversation that doesn\u2019t pertain to TV or immediate needs.\n\nI\u2019m not the only one, but you all make everything sound easy. I would venture to bet that a great number of marriages are not built from love. Most marriages in the Bible weren\u2019t built from love either.\n\nI don\u2019t have a love language because that would be a luxury that I\u2019ve never been afforded. Just be advised your perspective is a little short-sighted.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I want to <em>cry<\/em> just because I can\u2019t imagine the pain\/the loneliness that that woman goes through. That\u2019s really hard; and I think there are a lot of people that live there, honestly. I could see that\u2014as we share and we talk and we tell our victory stories, it can feel very much like that\u2014like, \u201cI wish I could just have my husband interact with me.\u201d I understand the pain.\n\nI\u2019m really glad that she has written in because, now, you guys are going to answer the question. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019re right. It\u2019s one of those desperately lonely and hurtful places\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014to be in a marriage. You stop and think about it: \u201cWhy do we get married?\u201d\u2014because there is some hope for another person, who will know us fully and love us, even when he or she knows us.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That is the hope. I\u2019m assuming there are a lot of marriages, where people have entered into a covenant because, maybe, a woman got pregnant and they decided to get married; so, maybe, there wasn\u2019t a real love there. We\u2019ve been in other countries, where it is an arranged marriage, and they don\u2019t even know each other well\u2014let alone love one another\u2014so what does that look like? I think those are great questions.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, and we talk, all the time, at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> about the natural drift in a marriage being toward isolation. I think there are a lot of couples, who are in kind of the roommate-status of marriage. There is, maybe, not active animosity; there is just indifference\u2014it\u2019s like: \u201cI don\u2019t hate you. It just wouldn\u2019t matter to me whether you were here or not.\u201d So, I think, maybe, the bigger number of folks would be that group that is saying: \u201cWe\u2019re in a loveless marriage. It\u2019s not angry or hateful; it\u2019s just lonely.\u201d\n\nThen, there are these situations, where a wife is saying: \u201cMy husband says he hates me, and I ruined his life. This is the man I\u2019m living with; this is the father of my children. What do I do about that?\u201d Let\u2019s tackle <em>that<\/em>; and then, maybe, we can find our way back to those roommates, who are just in isolation.\n\nIf you were sitting down with this woman, Ann\u2014and she said, \u201cThis is my circumstance and my story\u2026\u201d\u2014the first thing you would do is what you did\u2014you\u2019d empathize.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019d say, \u201cMy heart breaks for you.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; I\u2019d want her to go deeper into the story because, first, I would want to know if there\u2019s any abuse going on. If there is some sort of physical abuse or even mental\u2014like torturing kind of thing\u2014I would probably advise her to leave the home. I\u2019m not advising her to divorce, but I\u2019m advising her to get safe and to get help.\n\nI would also really encourage her to get with a group of women in a church\/a local church, where they are preaching the gospel and God\u2019s Word. I would just want her to be surrounded by people that are loving her\u2014encouraging her, speaking life into her, telling her what she\u2019s great at\u2014because she\u2019s probably not getting that at home; and that can feel very bleak. Those would be the first things that I would say.\n\nThen I\u2019d really go into just talking about Jesus and how much He loves her\/how much He sees her. That\u2019s the thing\u2014when you look at Genesis 29 and you\u2019re talking about Rachel and Leah\u2014as I\u2019ve read it over the years, I\u2019m always struck with\u2014it says every single time: \u201cGod sees her,\u201d \u201cGod saw her,\u201d \u201cGod heard her.\u201d He was always noticing what was going on in Leah\u2019s life, and Rachel, and all of us.\n\nBut I think for this listener, I would say: \u201cOh, God sees you. He hears you. He has caught every tear, and He\u2019s empathizing with your loneliness and your pain. He wants to come right beside you and enter into it with you if you\u2019ll allow Him to.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, I would add: \u201cI think it is easy for listeners\u2014and this has happened at our church\u2014is they look at Ann and I\u201d\u2014and I\u2019m sure it happens with you, Bob, and Mary Ann\u2014\u201cand because we\u2019re on radio\/because we\u2019re standing on stage, talking about marriage, they think\u2014even though we say our marriage isn\u2019t perfect\u2014there is still a perception, \u2018Oh, it\u2019s a lot better than mine.\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Even though they hear Ann say she lost her feelings for me, they don\u2019t really think it was that bad. Yet, again, I\u2019m not saying our marriage is where this woman\u2019s marriage is; but it was <em>hard<\/em>\u2014it\u2019s <em>still<\/em> a struggle. There are days where I know Ann feels that way\u2014we feel, in some ways, roommates\u2014but yet, there\u2019s also a beauty of Christ meeting us there.\n\nI would never want anybody to overestimate how good our marriage is from their perception. I would\u2014again, I\u2019m not saying it\u2019s as bad as\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or was.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; or was.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s just\u2014it\u2019s easy when somebody is on stage\u2014a pastor or on radio\u2014you just elevate them to a place. Even though they say, \u201cOur marriage is like yours,\u201d I don\u2019t think people really believe it was that desperate. When I prayed to die instead of being married to her, people laugh. I\u2019m thinking, \u201cMan, if you were there in that moment,\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cthere was <em>nothing<\/em> but despair.\u201d I would rather <em>die<\/em>\u2014and it sounds funny, but it\u2019s only because we made it\u2014so that was real. I mean, I empathize with her; I mean, I feel her pain\u2014it\u2019s <em>real<\/em>!\n\nIt is interesting that she mentioned Leah. I remember reading, I think\u2014and maybe hearing Pastor Tim Keller, who brought such insight into this passage that was very interesting. He talks about Leah, and she is the forgotten\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, let me\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014wife.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014let me read you verse 31, Dave, because I thought this was interesting. In Genesis 29:31, it said, \u201cWhen the Lord saw that Leah was\u201d\u2014listen to this word\u2014\u201chated,\u201d\u2014\u201cWhen the Lord saw that Leah was hated, He opened her womb.\u201d I love that God saw her; but isn\u2019t that interesting that Leah felt hated? Keep going.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Then what was really interesting from that is what happens\u2014and Tim brought this out\u2014she becomes pregnant; she gives birth to a son. It says she named him Reuben\u2014this is Genesis 29:32\u2014for she said, \u201cIt is because the Lord has seen my misery. Surely, my husband will love me now.\u201d What Tim Keller brought out was that\u2014so she\u2019s having this child; and she\u2019s like, \u201cNow\u2014now, Jacob will see me; he\u2019ll love me.\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s very interesting\u2014she has another one, Simeon, and says the same thing: \u201cNow, my husband will see me.\u201d What Tim drew out\u2014I\u2019d never seen before\u2014is that both times, when she says, \u201cThe Lord has given me,\u201d she uses the phrase, \u201cfor the Lord\u201d\u2014<em>Elohim<\/em>, which means almost an impersonal, all-knowing God, who is out there somewhere.\n\nThen, on the final pregnancy, her son is named Levi; and the word she uses for the Lord is different. It\u2019s like her perspective changes from\u2014\u201cI\u2019m trying to find my life from my husband, who I know hates me,\u201d\u2014but she says, \u201cNow, at last, my husband will become attached to me; because I have born him three sons.\u201d So, he was named Levi.\n\nListen to this\u2014it says, \u201cThen she conceived again; and when she gave birth to a son, this time, she said, \u2018This time I will praise the Lord.\u2019\u201d So, she named him Judah; then she stopped having children. What I\u2019ve never seen is the word she uses for the Lord the last time is <em>Yahweh<\/em>\u2014it\u2019s a personal God, a loving God, a God who is present. It\u2019s like her whole\u2014she says it: \u201cThis time\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like\u2014\u201cI\u2019ve been trying to find my life from my husband. The Lord is out there, and He\u2019s good; but my husband\u2026\u201d \u201c\u2026my husband\u2026\u201d \u201c\u2026my husband\u2026\u201d Finally, she says, \u201cThis time I realize I\u2019m <em>never<\/em> going to find my life from my husband. I\u2019m going to find it from <em>Yahweh<\/em>\u2014my personal, loving God, who has seen me the whole time\/who has been here the whole time.\u201d\n\nHere\u2019s the beauty of the whole thing: \u201cWhere does the line of Jesus come through?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Not Rachel\u2014<em>Leah<\/em>!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What a picture of the gospel. God uses the forgotten woman, who is sort of spit on, to deliver the Savior, who is forgotten and spit on. I mean, again, this doesn\u2019t dismiss this woman\u2019s\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014pain, who sent the email in; but God\u2019s in it. Who knows what He can bring out of it if you just take your eyes off your husband\u2014which is so easy to do [to try and find life in him]\u2014and say, \u201cOkay; I really do need to find my life, not in my husband, but in my God\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting, too, that when Jacob died, he wanted to be buried by Leah. Of course, this is a Bible story; but the pain is very real in the Bible story.\n\nSo, where do we start for this woman? I think we start with, first of all, just going really deep in that relationship with God, because He sees you; He knows you; He hears you. Then, I think out of that, I would start asking this question: \u201cGod, show me the things that You see in my husband\u2014the good things that You put in him.\u201d\n\nMaybe, you start with a friendship; you know?\u2014maybe, you just start there. One of our good friends is a guy named Ramesh from Nepal. He started a ministry in Nepal for girls that are being trafficked. He and his wife had an arranged marriage; and he said: \u201cWe <em>never<\/em> expected to love one another. We just hoped that we would start by being friends.\u201d\n\nI think it\u2019s, maybe, you start with seeing some things that are good about your husband and sharing them. He may scoff\u2014like, \u201cWhat are you trying to do?\u201d But maybe, it\u2019s once a day, you say something good\u2014that could be a start.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> As you\u2019re talking\u2014first of all, great insight on this. As we\u2019ve said, we don\u2019t want to do anything to diminish the pain.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But I think you\u2019re right\u2014lean into Jesus hard\u2014find a community that you can be a part of\u2014a church community\/women, who can come around you who can breathe life into you when you are discouraged.\n\nAnd then start to cultivate a new heart\/a new attitude toward your husband. You have to start thinking, missionally, about your husband because I don\u2019t know if your husband professes faith or not; but I can tell you\u2014he is bearing the fruit of an unbeliever; okay?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know his spiritual condition, but he\u2019s acting the way unbelievers would act toward their wives. This is not the way Jesus would have us act toward our spouse; so you have to think: \u201cOkay; he\u2019s acting as an unbeliever. Now, God\u2019s put me in close proximity to this unbeliever. How can I look at him, not as my husband, but as a person who needs Jesus more than anything else?\u201d\n\nI come back to this passage, right at the end of the marriage passage in 1 Peter 3,\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I just went there, Bob!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you both?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was going to go there too: \u201cThey\u2019re all going to go to 1 Peter.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, right after talking about: \u201cWives, do this\u2026\u201d\/\u201dHusbands, do this\u2026\u201d it says, \u201cFinally, all of you cultivate a new mindset.\u201d Here is the mindset\u2014sympathy: \u201cWhat is it about your husband that you can go, \u2018You know, I can have some sympathy for the scars or wounds that are a part of his life, where I can enter into the pain that is driving some of his hatred\u2019?\u201d\n\nBrotherly love\u2014that\u2019s a kind affection: \u201cHow can I show kindness and affection toward him?\u201d A tender heart and a humble mind\u2014if you\u2019ve got that as the baseline: \u201cHow can I look at this person and go: \u2018Yes; he is wounding me and scarring me. That\u2019s coming from a place of hurt in his own life. How can I be Jesus to him in the midst of his own hurt?\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good point, because hurt people hurt people.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And he has some hurt; and he is taking it out, probably, at home.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, \u201cDon\u2019t repay evil\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cfor evil; but instead\u201d\u2014what does it say, Dave?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cDo not repay insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cbecause to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What the Bible is saying here is: \u201cHow can you bless the one who despises you?\u201d or \u201c\u2026who says he despises you?\u201d Or again, wherever it\u2019s coming from\u2014the anger\/the hurt\u2014where that\u2019s coming from: \u201cHow can you be a blessing to that person?\u201d\n\nEvery fiber of your being is saying, \u201cI\u2019m not going to bless a person, who is this cruel\/this abusive, who is not being the father to his kids that he needs to be\/not being a husband to me that he needs to be.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And let\u2019s be honest. Most people in this culture will say, \u201cYou\u2019re being ridiculous\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cto stay in this marriage, and you should get out.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now, let me be careful here,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014because blessing does not mean becoming an enabler\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014of his dysfunction.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Good point.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Blessing does not mean staying under abuse,\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014when there is cruelty and abuse happening.\n\nShe didn\u2019t say anything about him being physically abusive.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You raised that question; but here\u2019s where\u2014to be a real blessing, you don\u2019t enable the ongoing sin against you. You just look for ways that you can be a redemptive person in his life\u2014filled with sympathy, humility, kindness toward him\u2014not \u201cI\u2019m going to show you!\u201d\u2014but \u201cI care about you, and I care about you enough that I\u2019m not going to be here to enable your cruelty toward me.\u201d\n\nSo, if he\u2019s being cruel toward you, that doesn\u2019t mean you just sit there and keep your mouth shut. You say, \u201cYou know, listen, this is not right for you to be talking to me like this.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good point, because you don\u2019t want your kids to see that too.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; but you do it with a calmness and a disposition that says: \u201cThe way you are talking to me\u2014this is not right. This is not the way a husband should talk to his wife. I\u2019m just going to excuse myself and go to our room.\u201d You have to make sure that you\u2019re kindly speaking the truth and saying, \u201cThis is not how you ought to be living, and I\u2019m here to help you be better.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m telling you\u2014for the woman that wrote this email\u2014you are loved by God. He has a plan for you; He sees you; He knows the marriage you are in; He\u2019s not surprised by it, and He is wanting you to seek Him first\u2014He\u2019ll be there for you.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I was just going to add: \u201cThere is no way to be a blessing if you\u2019re not connected to the Blessing.\u201d Again, we\u2019ve said this so many times; but in her situation\u2014and it\u2019s really no different for us\u2014you\u2019ve got to cling, because you\u2019re probably not going to find that from your husband. You\u2019ve got to find that from your heavenly Father, and that\u2019s the strength He gives you\u2014the strength to be able to be a blessing. That will woo any man. If it doesn\u2019t, man, there is something else going on there.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, let me go back. Right before Peter talks about marriage in 1 Peter, listen to what he says. He says, \u201cIf when you do good and suffer for it\u201d\u2014you endure\u2014\u201cthis is a gracious thing in the sight of God.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I like that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cFor it is to this that you have been called because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example that you might follow in His steps.\u201d\n\nNow, again, we want to be careful when we talk about this kind of suffering.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re not saying, \u201cEndure abuse.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But we are saying, \u201cThere is a way to persevere in the midst of the suffering we go through in marriage; and when we do, Jesus goes: \u2018I know where you are. I\u2019ve been there.\u2019\u201d It\u2019s a gracious thing in the sight of God. You\u2019re modeling Jesus to your husband.\n\nThanks, you guys, for tackling a tough one. You have now passed your baptism.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did we pass it?!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know; did we?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know either.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to find out. We\u2019ll see what listeners say\/how they respond.\n\nAgain, as a listener, if you\u2019ve got questions about marriage, about parenting, about extended family relationships\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014Bob would love to answer them. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014I would be happy to spring them on Dave and Ann, just like I did this email today. [Laughter] You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and leave your questions for us there; we\u2019ll try to tackle those carefully, delicately, appropriately. See if we can respond to some of your questions.\n\nLet me also mention\u2014and I don\u2019t know if we talked about this\u2014but Dave and Ann\u2019s book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, really talks about the direction that all of our marriages need to be pointed. In order for our horizontal relationships to function as God designed them, we need to make sure that our marriage has a vertical orientation\u2014that we\u2019re thinking about God\u2019s design for marriage. That\u2019s true whether it is both of you, as a couple, pursuing that or if you\u2019re alone in that quest\u2014you still have to keep seeking the things above, where Christ is.\n\nWe\u2019ve got copies of the book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can request your copy when you go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the title of the best-selling book by Dave and Ann Wilson is <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order your copy, or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nYou know, a good reminder today that a lot of listeners are facing a lot of challenging issues. David Robbins, the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> is here with us. This is what we\u2019re all about; isn\u2019t it?\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> It is; I\u2019m so grateful that we are able to have honest conversations like today and to help people, who are experiencing situations that are challenging; because a lot of life is challenging.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> Can I just say to our listeners: \u201cThis is what FamilyLife is all about\u2014is pointing people to Jesus, allowing people to experience new levels of intimacy, and break through some barriers that they may be experiencing in their relationships with their family and really have the resources to grow in some of the most important relationships in life.\u201d\n\nYou make all of this possible. We need your help. We need your help to continue to give you and your family the resources\u2014your neighbors, your community, and the world. We love engaging the world with biblical practical help and hope for marriage and family.\n\nI just want to ask you\u2014and even challenge you\u2014during this month to give a one-time donation or become a Legacy Partner and help us continue to live out our mission of helping people change the world, one home at a time.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The reason that May is a good time to do that is because of the matching gift that has been made available to us. Every donation we receive between now and the end of the month is going to be matched, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $645,000; and that\u2019s a great opportunity we have. We still need to hear from more listeners to take full advantage of that matching gift.\n\nIf you sign on and become a monthly Legacy Partner today, your donations over the next 12 months, will all be matched as long as there is still money in the matching-gift fund. Every donation you make for the next year will be matched, dollar for dollar; and as a Legacy Partner, we want to send you a thank-you gift. It\u2019s a gift card so that you and your spouse, or friends of yours, can attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway with the registration fee completely covered.\n\nThat\u2019s our way of saying, \u201cWe are so grateful for you connecting with us as monthly Legacy Partners.\u201d Find out more when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You can donate online or become a Legacy Partner online; or if it\u2019s easier, call 1-800-FL-TODAY. You can donate over the phone or get any information you need. Thank you for partnering with us, here at FamilyLife and for being part of this mission and this ministry.\n\nAnd we hope you can be back with us, again, tomorrow. We\u2019re going to introduce you to Cameron Cole and hear\u2014we\u2019re going to hear the story about the darkest day of his life\u2014his and his wife\u2019s life. He\u2019ll share their story with you tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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