{"id":305037,"date":"2019-05-22T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-05-22T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/overcoming-differences\/"},"modified":"2019-05-22T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2019-05-22T15:00:00","slug":"overcoming-differences","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/overcoming-differences\/","title":{"rendered":"Overcoming Differences"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Jonathan Pitts | Series: Emptied | It&#8217;s often the little things that can annoy you about your mate. Widower and father of four Jonathan Pitts reminds us that the goal of the Christian life is to be filled with and walk in the power of the Holy Spirit and to be conformed to the image of Christ as we live out the fruit of the spirit. Pitts shares how he was intentional in trying to die daily to his own wants in order to serve his wife and family, and illustrates this with a story from his marriage about changing a bad habit he had since childhood.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Widower and father of four Jonathan Pitts shares how he was intentional in trying to die daily to his own wants in order to serve his wife and family, and illustrates this with a story from his marriage about changing a bad habit he had since childhood.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-22.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:31:20","filesize":"28.7M","filesize_raw":"30091217","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2847,10442,2862],"tags":[6628],"podcast_series":[8277],"cwp_profile":[9536],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305037","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-death-and-dying","category-death-of-a-spouse","category-understanding-differences","tag-overcoming-differences","podcast_series-emptied","cwp_profile-jonathan-pitts","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305037\/overcoming-differences","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305037\/overcoming-differences","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"oaoZ8MTpc5\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/overcoming-differences\/\">Overcoming Differences<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/overcoming-differences\/embed\/#?secret=oaoZ8MTpc5\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Overcoming Differences&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"oaoZ8MTpc5\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-22.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-22.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>To have a marriage with no regrets, Jonathan Pitts says you have to learn how to get yourself out of the center.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>In my marriage, although I wasn\u2019t perfect, I was intentional to try to die daily to myself, and my desires, and my wants. It was hard most days\u2014it was hard to the very end\u2014like it\u2019s always hard. It\u2019s always going to be hard giving up what you want; you know?\n\nBut now, my joy is based in the sacrifice. If I wouldn\u2019t have sacrificed for my wife\/if I would have been more selfish\u2014I\u2019m not saying I wasn\u2019t selfish, but if I weren\u2019t working on that\u2014I would have tremendous regret right now, and that joy wouldn\u2019t be present.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, May 22<sup>nd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. To experience fullness in a marriage, we have to learn how to live an emptied-out life. We\u2019ll explore that more today with Jonathan Pitts. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I have to confess\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, it\u2019s confessions by Bob Lepine!\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Good! Everyone listen up! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>This should be a regular segment\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s a good idea!\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019d be sort of fun; wouldn\u2019t it?\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, now, wait until you hear\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014Confessions from Bob!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wait until you hear this confession; because the confession is\u2014I did glance at Jonathan\u2019s fingernails\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, oh; I know why. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I didn\u2019t!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You didn\u2019t look at the fingernails?\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I\u2019ve reverted a little bit, but I have a good excuse.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you know why I was looking at his fingernails?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I have <em>no<\/em> idea.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I think you\u2019re going to tell us.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, Jonathan Pitts joins us, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today;<\/em> welcome back. Why was I looking at your fingernails?\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I\u2019ve been a fingernail-biter my whole life; my wife hated it from the time that we met. I remember being in the car with her, driving\u2014I think we were on a date\u2014and I reached my hand out to touch her leg. She recoiled from my hand. That was a moment, for me, that was a game-changer. It was one where I would begin to own, \u201cWhat does it look like to not be\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You weren\u2019t angry or defensive at her recoiling.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I used to be angry and defensive; and at that moment, I was kind of heartbroken. That was a need for her\u2014to know that her husband could stop biting his nails for her.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jonathan Pitts is the executive pastor at Church of the City\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That\u2019s funny, after he was telling that story. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I thought I\u2019d throw this in\u2014executive pastor at Church of the City\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u201cI want to hire you!\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014in Nashville. [Laughter] He is also the father of four daughters. His wife Wynter\u2014who is the co-author of the book, <em>Emptied<\/em>, which they wrote right before her passing a year ago\u2014that\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about\/we\u2019re talking about issues in marriage and emptying yourself in order to achieve oneness\u2014to drain the \u201cme\u201d out of the \u201cus\u201d so that we can really be focused on: \u201cWhat does God want for our marriage?\u201d and \u201cHow can we come, together, to make that happen?\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s not just about being emptied, though; because Jesus tells a story about a guy, who empties the house\u2014he has a demon in the house\u2014so he cleans it up, and empties the house, and that\u2019s all he does\u2014is he empties it\u2014and what happens? Seven more demons come and fill up the house. We can\u2019t just empty ourselves; we have to be filling up with <em>something<\/em> in order for there to be a structure here.\n\nIf we\u2019re going to empty ourselves\u2014I know the Sunday school answer is: \u201cWell, you fill up with Jesus,\u201d\u2014but what does that look like? How do we do that?\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Well, Galatians would tell us that the goal of the Christian life is to be filled with the Holy Spirit; and the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control. The Bible says, \u201cAgainst such things there is no law,\u201d\u2014like we\u2019re supposed to have those things in increasing measure.\n\nAs we\u2019re being emptied of sin\u2014as we\u2019re being emptied of expectations, as we\u2019re being emptied of habits that might not even\/sometimes, those things that we\u2019re being emptied of aren\u2019t even wrong things. Like I remember\u2014Dave, you\u2019re a football guy; I\u2019m a football guy\u2014and I remember, on Sundays, we used to go to my family\u2019s house for Sunday, all day. You get out of church\u2014one o\u2019clock game, four o\u2019clock game, evening game\u2014it\u2019s an all-day thing.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I love this guy. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s still kind of our house.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That works.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Wynter just joined with that journey. We got married\u2014I\u2019m 24 years old, fresh out of college; 23 years old, fresh out of college\u2014and we start going to my family\u2019s house every Sunday for the Sunday games. She\u2019s like, \u201cHey, can we go home now?\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cWhat do you mean? We are home. This is my parents\u2019 house, where we watch football.\u201d That wasn\u2019t, necessarily, a wrong thing; but it was definitely one that was destroying my marriage, one Sunday at a time! [Laughter] Thankfully, God would move us across the country, away from my family, for that very specific reason, I think, so I could lose that habit really fast.\n\nBut some of the things that we need to be emptied of aren\u2019t even wrong things; they\u2019re just things that are keeping us from being fully one and intimate. As those things are being emptied, God wants to fill us with some other things\u2014love being one, peace, patience\u2014like all these things that God gives us and <em>wants<\/em> to give us in increasing measure. To the degree that we empty ourselves is to the degree that God can and will fill us with those things.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think you\u2019d agree with this\u2014it\u2019s not that we need to isolate nine specific character qualities and say: \u201cOkay; I\u2019m going to try to build this today,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m going to try to build this today.\u201d The fact that the Bible describes this as the fruit of the Spirit means that what we need to do is be filled up with God\u2019s Spirit; we need to be oriented, where our life is about Him and His purposes, and then what grows naturally,\u2014\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes\u2014out of that.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014in that situation, is this fruit.\n\nThat list in Galatians 5, which is a great list\u2014I don\u2019t think it\u2019s an exhaustive list\u2014I think the Spirit bears all kind of fruit in our lives. That\u2019s just a good representation of what a Spirit-filled life is going to look like.\n\nIf you wonder if you\u2019re Spirit-filled, you just ask yourself the question: \u201cAm I loving? Am I joyful? Am I peaceful? Am I patient?\u201d You can go through that list and say, \u201cAre these things true about me?\u201d If they\u2019re not, then you\u2019re not Spirit-filled in that moment; so you need to turn back and say, \u201cOkay, Spirit; fill me here\u201d; right?\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; you know, one of the beautiful things, when I think about\u2014you said it\u2019s not an exhaustive list; there are other things there\u2014one of the things that I\u2019m really grateful for now, eight months out from my wife\u2019s passing, and just realizing the level of desire that she had to lean into the Spirit of God\u2014and now, I look at the fruit that was borne out of the ministry that she built: first and foremost with my girls, and then second, with her earthly ministry in <em>For Girls Like You<\/em>.\n\nYou know, I even think legacy\u2014like leaving something behind\u2014is one of those fruits that\u2019s borne out of living the life of the Spirit. I was actually reading about it in Proverbs this morning. But that\u2019s just a reality that I get to think about, often, right now\u2014just where I am with my wife not being here\u2014but realizing that she\u2019s, literally, still present through a godly legacy that she\u2019s left behind here on earth, through investing in the kingdom. It\u2019s a beautiful thing.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>If someone asked you, \u201cHow do I get filled with the Holy Spirit?\u201d what would your simple answer be?\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; it\u2019s probably a clich\u00e9 one; but \u201cSeek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you.\u201d I would say: \u201cThat\u2019s it\u2014it\u2019s seeking God. Seeking God looks like a lot of different things, but it looks like looking for Jesus in everything\u2014looking for His kingdom purposes, looking to His Word, finding godly people around you that you see that being exemplified in. There are a lot of different methods, but seeking means seeking\u2014like it\u2019s looking for it; trying to find it\u201d; you know.\n\nI wish I could give like a step one, a step two, and a step three; but the only step I can give is: \u201cSeeking, first, God\u2019s kingdom and His purposes.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, I think, Jonathan, what you write about in the book is really that emptying, which, in a sense, is taking my will, which\u2014every second of my day\u2014is fighting for first place.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I want <em>my<\/em> way in my marriage\/in my life\u2014you name it. It\u2019s fighting\/it\u2019s saying, \u201cI\u2019m going to lay that down\/empty that out,\u201d\u2014which is <em>hard<\/em>; because it\u2019s every day; or most of it\u2019s every <em>minute<\/em>, because it raises back up\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m going to empty that; I\u2019m going to lay that down.\u201d What replaces that, as we were talking about earlier, is the Spirit of God then floods in that empty space\u2014that we say: \u201cOkay, God; come in. Do Your will.\u201d\n\nLet\u2019s talk about this, because you get into this in your book. The fruit of that\/the fruit of the Spirit\u2014capital \u201cS\u201d; not my human spirit; the Spirit of God in my life\u2014is really one fruit that has sort of nine character qualities. Talk about it.\n\nSo, the first one\u2019s love. That\u2019s a word that <em>nobody<\/em> understands: \u201cI love you,\u201d \u201cI love ice cream,\u201d\u2014you know? \u201cWhat\u2019s it mean?\u201d\u2014it means nothing. But yes: \u201cWhat does love look like?\u2014the Spirit of God doing godly love in your marriage\/in your life, what\u2019s that fruit look like?\u201d\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Well, it looks like something; I can tell you that. It\u2019s very practical in nature. It\u2019s not ethereal; it\u2019s not an idea; it\u2019s an action\u2014so Jesus, when He loved us\u2014He took <em>action<\/em>.\n\nMy wife <em>loved<\/em> surprises. I could easily just\u2014you know, I\u2019m just a guy; I\u2019m a typical guy that doesn\u2019t like to work really hard when it comes to things like that\u2014it\u2019s sad, but it\u2019s true. I didn\u2019t want to work hard to surprise her. It would take me years to develop the understanding that a part of loving her well was surprising her, because that was something that she really enjoyed.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>She loved it?\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; she <em>loved<\/em> it! I got better and better at it; and I executed it perfectly on our 15<sup>th<\/sup> anniversary, which I think I talked about earlier. But it\u2019s just like\u2014love looks like something; and depending on who our spouse is, it looks different. So, love looks like my stopping from biting my fingernails; love looks like surprising her.\n\nLove\u2014it\u2019s <em>so<\/em> many different things, and it works itself out in so many different ways; but it\u2019s tangible, and it\u2019s not just an idea. I can\u2019t just say to Wynter, or I couldn\u2019t just say to Wynter, \u201cWell, I love you; so that makes all\u2026\u201d\u2014no; show your love\u2014let it be worked out in action.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s interesting, because another fruit that you talk about is joy. As I watch you and think: \u201cShe\u2019s been gone\u2014Wynter has been gone eight months\u2014and yet, you exude a joy. I see it in you\u2014it\u2019s palpable; it\u2019s present. How do you have that joy?\u201d\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Well, one, it\u2019s all God; but I think back to that Scripture, \u201cFor the joy set before Him He endured the cross.\u201d\u00a0 In my marriage, although I wasn\u2019t perfect, I was intentional to try to die daily to myself, and my desires, and my wants. Now, I just feel like in this moment\u2014I\u2019ll tell you story.\n\nI\u2019m backing up a little bit more. Dr. Evans was teaching\u2014I was at Dr. Evans\u2019 church\/Tony Evans\u2019 church. He\u2019s teaching on Esther\/the Book of Esther. He\u2019s talking about how Esther had a choice to make between, basically, potentially giving up her life to the save the Jewish people or just being like: \u201cYou know what? I\u2019m good; I\u2019m in the king\u2019s palace; I\u2019m going to sit back.\u201d\n\nI had this moment, where I wrote down that: \u201cGod wants to use me, but to the degree that I actually give up what I want to serve God\u2019s purposes will be to the degree that God can use me.\u201d It\u2019s like God was driving me towards more and more giving up what I wanted for His purposes, which meant, a lot of days, being sacrificial. Now, my joy is\u2014because of the endurance I had in marriage and because of the things that I decided to give up, intentionally\u2014it was hard most days. It was hard to the very end; it\u2019s <em>always<\/em> hard\u2014like it\u2019s always going to be hard giving up what you want; you know?\n\nIf I wouldn\u2019t have sacrificed for my wife\/if I would have been more selfish\u2014I\u2019m not saying that I wasn\u2019t selfish, but if I weren\u2019t working on that\u2014I would have tremendous regret right now, and that joy wouldn\u2019t be present.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s not that you don\u2019t have grief. We\u2019ve already talked about the fact that grieving is still there.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; well, no. What the gospel gives us\/what Jesus gives us is the paradox\u2014you know, you have sorrow on one side and joy\u2014you could have joy in the sorrow.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s what I see.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That\u2019s what, for me, grief is right now\u2014joy in the sorrow. I can talk about my wife, and just have joy in my heart for what I had\u2014the gift that she was to me and the gift that I didn\u2019t even know that\u2014like she was a gift in a lot of ways, and I didn\u2019t even know I needed a gift.\n\nA couple years ago, if you\u2019d have told me I\u2019d be sitting around this table, talking to you guys, I\u2019d be like: \u201cI\u2019m not worthy of that. I can\u2019t do that,\u201d and Wynter would be speaking confidence into me, like: \u201cGod\u2019s made you for this. God\u2019s crafted you for this.\u201d She would speak confidence into me\u2014that was a gift, you know.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, we look at that list in Galatians 5 and we, most often, will ask about ourselves, personally, \u201cDo I have love, and joy, and peace, and patience, and kindness?\u201d But stop and think about your marriage, and just say: \u201cIs this a marriage that is characterized by love? Is this a relationship where joy is present? Is this a relationship where there\u2019s peace in the relationship?\u201d\n\nNow, all of a sudden, we\u2019re talking, not just about an individual, but about a Spirit-filled marriage. For it to get there, both of you have to be walking in the Spirit\u2014you both have to be filled with the Spirit\/surrendered to Christ. It\u2019s one thing for me to be joyful\u2014that\u2019s a good thing\u2014but when <em>we\u2019re<\/em> joyful in marriage, together, that\u2019s not just one plus one, that\u2019s kind of like two times twelve.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The joy that\u2019s there, when you\u2019re both operating in that, is pretty spectacular.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Actually, you get to experience it at a lot of levels; for us, specifically, in ministry. When we both got on purpose in our marriage, like God began to grow us and use our marriage in a way\u2014and our parenting\u2014[in a way] we never would have thought possible. I\u2019m really grateful for it.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Honestly, there are a lot of listeners, whose husband or wife <em>won\u2019t<\/em> pursue Christ like they are; so they\u2019re sitting here, listening to us, like, \u201cOkay; I\u2019m listening to couples, whose spouse is on-fire for Christ like they are; but what do <em>I<\/em> do when my husband won\u2019t go to church with me?\u201d or \u201c\u2026will go, but he\u2019s not going to surrender all?\u201d or \u201cMy wife won\u2019t\u2026\u201d\u00a0 What do you say to that spouse, who\u2019s sort of alone in this; but they have to empty when they know their spouse isn\u2019t going to empty? How do they navigate that?\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I mean, I would first say that\u2019s kind of what Jesus did for us.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>You know, it\u2019s what He did for us! But I mean, that\u2019s a very biblical answer; but the reality is\u2014you know, like Paul\u2019s talking about that specifically to wives, that you can win your spouse\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>First Peter.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; 1 Peter\u2014you can win your spouse over just by your faithfulness. But yes, I think you have a unique opportunity to show them Christ in you. You know, \u201cFor the joy set before you endure\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>In a sense, it really is sort of the hardest thing to do; because when your spouse isn\u2019t going where you want them to go, our eyes get fixed on them, and one of the things we have to do\u2014I know Ann had to do this with me\u2014is take her eyes off me and look back to the One\u2014capital \u201cO\u201d One\/Jesus\u2014and say: \u201cThat\u2019s where my life is. I\u2019m going to find it there.\u201d\n\nThe more we look at our spouse, the more disappointed we might get; because they\u2019re not going where we want. God can fill us ourselves, and then we can do what 1 Peter said\u2014then I can respect my man\/then I can love my woman in a way that <em>draws<\/em> them to the One, who\u2019s given me the power to do it.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; another thing I would say is\u2014I think we talk about this in the book\u2014this reality of\/like there are qualities\u2014even if our spouses aren\u2019t perfect, there are qualities in them that we can call out that, actually\u2014just like with our kids; we can call out qualities in them that make them want them to rise to the occasion.\n\nI would encourage them to call out\u2014if you see a godly characteristic in your spouse, like call it out. Even if it\u2019s not perfect\u2014or there\u2019s 90 percent that\u2019s bad\u2014where\u2019s the\n\n10 percent that you can call out and just encourage them in?\n\nWe did a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>; and we wrote these letters, where we were calling out on each other. I have Wynter\u2019s\u2014that\u2019s a gift to me from 2014\u2014a letter that she wrote to me that I want to read, if you don\u2019t mind.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019d love to hear it.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>This is her calling out what she sees in me\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is the love letter that she wrote to you during the project on Saturday at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u20142014 I think it was. Yes; and it\u2019s on the letterhead, so I\u2019m not lying. [Laughter]\n\nIt says:\n\nDear Jonathan, When we first met,\u2014\n\nHer handwriting\u2019s not that great, so\u2014\n\nDear Jonathan, When we first met, I could tell there was something different about you. You were genuine and kind, without seeking anything in return. You were louder than me, and I was actually drawn to that. I appreciate your ability to speak up and to be able to talk to anyone. You know that you are not shy, but it comes from such a pure place of loving people; and I appreciate that, and I\u2019ve grown from you in that.\n\nYou have so many qualities that I don\u2019t have, and they seem to drive me nuts; but I\u2019m learning that it is because you challenge me to grow. It\u2019s your self-discipline with working out, or eating healthy, or discipling the girls and I. You are showing the girls and I what it looks like to die to self and live in humility. Thank you for that.\n\nI am committed to receiving you and all the pieces of who you are. I know that God gave you to me because I needed the you He created you to be in my life. I receive you and value you. You are my gift, and the more I unwrap, the more precious you are and the more I realize how much of you is needed and wanted in my life. Thank you for always being you. I am so excited to continue to grow with you. Signed, Beezy\n\n\u2014which was her nickname.\n\nThere were probably a hundred things that Wynter could have put on a sheet of paper to tell me what I\u2019m <em>not<\/em> doing right, even in that moment, just a couple years ago. But one of the things I loved about that weekend was just this great opportunity to be able to call out in each other just what you see\u2014the godly characteristics and all that\u2014so that\u2019s special; it\u2019s framed on my bedroom wall.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s really cool. I was thinking, \u201cYou know, we called it, at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>\u2014we called it a love letter; but as you read that, I thought, \u2018To you, that was a respect letter.\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, I\u2019ve said this many times\u2014Ann, over the years, would give me a love anniversary card: \u201cI love you,\u201d and throw it in the trash. [Laughter] I mean, I\u2019d say, \u201cThanks; but when I went to my office later, I\u2019d just, \u201cAh, that\u2019s nice.\u201d But then, she started to write things like that\u2014and you saved it, and I saved it\u2014because it\u2019s a life-giving respect. \u201cI believe in you,\u201d is what Wynter said.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>How beautiful that is that you have that.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I want to read, from the last chapter of your book, just a paragraph-and-a-half here. You said:\n\nOn our marriage journey, we can\u2019t deny God\u2019s preordained hand brought us together. The things that had to happen or not happen for us to be together are clearly seen when we look back. We\u2019ve faced a few moments of perceived destruction that could have ended, in death, to our joy, death to intimacy, death to our peace, even death to our marriage; yet in those moments, we have learned to say, like Esther, \u201cIf I must die, I must die.\u201d It hasn\u2019t been an easy process. We\u2019re still learning to accept death to fulfill the fairytale ending that God has planned to us.\n\nWe know what you\u2019re thinking: \u201cI don\u2019t want to die\u201d; well, neither do we. Thankfully, we aren\u2019t necessarily talking about physical death, but figurative death; though God does call some to die for a spouse, but rarely. He\u2019s calling us to die to anything and everything that is not of His Spirit, to whatever keeps His Spirit from growing inside of us.\n\nYou pushed \u201cSend\u201d on that manuscript; and a few hours later, your wife had passed from this life to the next. It had been\u2014not spiritual death\/not dying to self\u2014but it was death. But even hearing those words, again, that the two of you wrote together\u2014those are precious words.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; yes. [Emotion in voice] It\u2019s kind of crazy to think about where I am right now, and even\u2014I haven\u2019t read that last chapter there in awhile. It\u2019s ended physically\u2014\u201c\u2026till death do us part\u201d\u2014it\u2019s ended, physically, for us now; but I\u2019m forever grateful for this project. It\u2019s, literally, for me, something I\u2019ll always have\u2014just to remember what God has done in our marriage and is continuing to do through it, even though it\u2019s ended now.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is a memorial stone.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; and it\u2019s a gift for <em>all<\/em> of us\u2014to not only read about your journey\u2014but to see the insights that you guys had into what it looks like to align your marriage with God\u2019s purposes, and we\u2019re grateful for this.\n\nThank you for being here. Thanks for sharing your story; thanks for crying a couple of times. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Thank you for making me cry a couple times.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And for listeners\u2014if you\u2019d like to get a copy of the book, <em>Emptied<\/em>, we have it for you in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Go, online, to FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy. Again, the title of the book is <em>Emptied<\/em>\u2014by Wynter and Jonathan Pitts\u2014<em>Experiencing the Fullness of a Poured-Out Marriage<\/em>. Order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order: 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nYou know, thinking about a marriage that is designed to honor Christ\u2014and that\u2019s our goal with marriage\u2014that\u2019s something we can\u2019t accomplish on our own. David Robbins, the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is with us; and that\u2019s a principle you\u2019ve learned, both experientially and theologically; right?\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>Yes; I mean, if we\u2019re going to empty ourselves and not have the power of God be the thing that fills us to be able to live out the things He\u2019s inviting us to step into, then we will be worn down, empty vessels. I mean, the way He did it is: \u201cI\u2019m going to put the resurrection power of Christ inside of you, and fill you to and move you to live out and follow what I\u2019m inviting you into.\u201d\n\nIf you haven\u2019t heard me say this before\u2014at some point in this journey together, you will get sick of me saying this\u2014but kind of a life mantra I\u2019ve had to learn is that: \u201cIf dependency is the goal, then weakness is actually an advantage,\u201d\u2014just as\n\n2 Corinthians 12 says: \u201cHis power is made perfect in our weakness.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>\u201cHis grace will be sufficient.\u201d A lot of times, though, we seek to serve and not actually tap into the power source of Him being inside of us\u2014His Spirit. If we\u2019re following Jesus, His Spirit\u2019s inside of us and He enables us to be able to depend upon Him and to live it out.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, if we\u2019re feeling strong and confident in our marriage, we ought to pause for a minute; right?\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>I think there are seasons, where we can delight in it, I will say, where God just gifts us with grace; and we\u2019re really enjoying. <em>But<\/em> if we think we have everything handled, I think, oftentimes, we\u2019re always called to trust God for things bigger than ourselves. If we feel like we have it all under control, we may need to pause and ask Him, \u201cGod, am I really living the God-sized life?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s good, David. Thank you for that.\n\nLet me, once again, remind our regular listeners about something pretty exciting going on, here, at FamilyLife. We have had some friends of the ministry recently come to us\u2014knowing that summer is just around the corner and that, during the summer months, we often see some decline in donation revenue\u2014and as a ministry, that is on the air every day throughout the summer and experiences ongoing costs throughout the summer months, these friends came and said, \u201cWe\u2019d like to help you make sure you head into summer in good shape.\u201d They have agreed to match every donation we receive, during the month of May, on a dollar-for-dollar basis, up to a total of $645,000\u2014very generous offer on their part.\n\nWe hope to take full advantage of that matching-gift opportunity. To do that, we\u2019re asking you to make a donation. In fact, we\u2019re hoping\u2014if you\u2019re a regular listener\/you\u2019ve been listening for awhile\u2014would you consider becoming one of our monthly Legacy Partners? Legacy Partners provide the financial underpinnings for this ministry\u2014you make the ongoing operation of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible.\n\nBecause of this matching gift, if you sign up and become a Legacy Partner during the month of May, two things are going to happen: first, every donation you make for the next 12 months is going to be matched, dollar for dollar, until the matching-gift funds are gone; and second, we\u2019ll send you, as a thank-you gift, a gift card so that either you, as a couple, or someone you know can attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, either one of the remaining getaways this spring, or into the fall, or even into next year.\n\nMaybe you know somebody getting married\u2014you\u2019d like to give this to them as a gift. The gift card is our expression of thanks to you when you support the ministry of FamilyLife by becoming a Legacy Partner this month. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com; you can donate online or become a Legacy Partner online. Help us take full advantage of this matching-gift opportunity. We appreciate your partnership with us.\n\nIf it\u2019s easier to contact us by calling, our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. You can donate over the phone or find out more about becoming a Legacy Partner. Again, the number is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to tackle a question that was sent to us by a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener. The question really revolves around, \u201cWhat do you do if you\u2019re in a loveless marriage?\u2014a marriage where your spouse has said, \u2018I don\u2019t have any love for you\u2019?\u201d How do you handle that? Dave and Ann Wilson and I will tackle that tomorrow. We\u2019ll talk about what it\u2019s like being in a Leah-like marriage. If you\u2019ve read Genesis, you know what we\u2019re talking about. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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and father of four Jonathan Pitts shares how he was intentional in trying to die daily to his own wants in order to serve his wife and family, and illustrates this with a story from his marriage about changing a bad habit he had since childhood.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-22.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>To have a marriage with no regrets, Jonathan Pitts says you have to learn how to get yourself out of the center.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>In my marriage, although I wasn\u2019t perfect, I was intentional to try to die daily to myself, and my desires, and my wants. It was hard most days\u2014it was hard to the very end\u2014like it\u2019s always hard. It\u2019s always going to be hard giving up what you want; you know?\n\nBut now, my joy is based in the sacrifice. If I wouldn\u2019t have sacrificed for my wife\/if I would have been more selfish\u2014I\u2019m not saying I wasn\u2019t selfish, but if I weren\u2019t working on that\u2014I would have tremendous regret right now, and that joy wouldn\u2019t be present.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, May 22<sup>nd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. To experience fullness in a marriage, we have to learn how to live an emptied-out life. We\u2019ll explore that more today with Jonathan Pitts. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I have to confess\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, it\u2019s confessions by Bob Lepine!\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Good! Everyone listen up! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>This should be a regular segment\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s a good idea!\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019d be sort of fun; wouldn\u2019t it?\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, now, wait until you hear\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014Confessions from Bob!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wait until you hear this confession; because the confession is\u2014I did glance at Jonathan\u2019s fingernails\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, oh; I know why. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I didn\u2019t!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You didn\u2019t look at the fingernails?\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I\u2019ve reverted a little bit, but I have a good excuse.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you know why I was looking at his fingernails?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I have <em>no<\/em> idea.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I think you\u2019re going to tell us.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, Jonathan Pitts joins us, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today;<\/em> welcome back. Why was I looking at your fingernails?\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I\u2019ve been a fingernail-biter my whole life; my wife hated it from the time that we met. I remember being in the car with her, driving\u2014I think we were on a date\u2014and I reached my hand out to touch her leg. She recoiled from my hand. That was a moment, for me, that was a game-changer. It was one where I would begin to own, \u201cWhat does it look like to not be\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You weren\u2019t angry or defensive at her recoiling.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I used to be angry and defensive; and at that moment, I was kind of heartbroken. That was a need for her\u2014to know that her husband could stop biting his nails for her.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jonathan Pitts is the executive pastor at Church of the City\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That\u2019s funny, after he was telling that story. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I thought I\u2019d throw this in\u2014executive pastor at Church of the City\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u201cI want to hire you!\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014in Nashville. [Laughter] He is also the father of four daughters. His wife Wynter\u2014who is the co-author of the book, <em>Emptied<\/em>, which they wrote right before her passing a year ago\u2014that\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about\/we\u2019re talking about issues in marriage and emptying yourself in order to achieve oneness\u2014to drain the \u201cme\u201d out of the \u201cus\u201d so that we can really be focused on: \u201cWhat does God want for our marriage?\u201d and \u201cHow can we come, together, to make that happen?\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s not just about being emptied, though; because Jesus tells a story about a guy, who empties the house\u2014he has a demon in the house\u2014so he cleans it up, and empties the house, and that\u2019s all he does\u2014is he empties it\u2014and what happens? Seven more demons come and fill up the house. We can\u2019t just empty ourselves; we have to be filling up with <em>something<\/em> in order for there to be a structure here.\n\nIf we\u2019re going to empty ourselves\u2014I know the Sunday school answer is: \u201cWell, you fill up with Jesus,\u201d\u2014but what does that look like? How do we do that?\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Well, Galatians would tell us that the goal of the Christian life is to be filled with the Holy Spirit; and the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control. The Bible says, \u201cAgainst such things there is no law,\u201d\u2014like we\u2019re supposed to have those things in increasing measure.\n\nAs we\u2019re being emptied of sin\u2014as we\u2019re being emptied of expectations, as we\u2019re being emptied of habits that might not even\/sometimes, those things that we\u2019re being emptied of aren\u2019t even wrong things. Like I remember\u2014Dave, you\u2019re a football guy; I\u2019m a football guy\u2014and I remember, on Sundays, we used to go to my family\u2019s house for Sunday, all day. You get out of church\u2014one o\u2019clock game, four o\u2019clock game, evening game\u2014it\u2019s an all-day thing.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I love this guy. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s still kind of our house.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That works.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Wynter just joined with that journey. We got married\u2014I\u2019m 24 years old, fresh out of college; 23 years old, fresh out of college\u2014and we start going to my family\u2019s house every Sunday for the Sunday games. She\u2019s like, \u201cHey, can we go home now?\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cWhat do you mean? We are home. This is my parents\u2019 house, where we watch football.\u201d That wasn\u2019t, necessarily, a wrong thing; but it was definitely one that was destroying my marriage, one Sunday at a time! [Laughter] Thankfully, God would move us across the country, away from my family, for that very specific reason, I think, so I could lose that habit really fast.\n\nBut some of the things that we need to be emptied of aren\u2019t even wrong things; they\u2019re just things that are keeping us from being fully one and intimate. As those things are being emptied, God wants to fill us with some other things\u2014love being one, peace, patience\u2014like all these things that God gives us and <em>wants<\/em> to give us in increasing measure. To the degree that we empty ourselves is to the degree that God can and will fill us with those things.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think you\u2019d agree with this\u2014it\u2019s not that we need to isolate nine specific character qualities and say: \u201cOkay; I\u2019m going to try to build this today,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m going to try to build this today.\u201d The fact that the Bible describes this as the fruit of the Spirit means that what we need to do is be filled up with God\u2019s Spirit; we need to be oriented, where our life is about Him and His purposes, and then what grows naturally,\u2014\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes\u2014out of that.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014in that situation, is this fruit.\n\nThat list in Galatians 5, which is a great list\u2014I don\u2019t think it\u2019s an exhaustive list\u2014I think the Spirit bears all kind of fruit in our lives. That\u2019s just a good representation of what a Spirit-filled life is going to look like.\n\nIf you wonder if you\u2019re Spirit-filled, you just ask yourself the question: \u201cAm I loving? Am I joyful? Am I peaceful? Am I patient?\u201d You can go through that list and say, \u201cAre these things true about me?\u201d If they\u2019re not, then you\u2019re not Spirit-filled in that moment; so you need to turn back and say, \u201cOkay, Spirit; fill me here\u201d; right?\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; you know, one of the beautiful things, when I think about\u2014you said it\u2019s not an exhaustive list; there are other things there\u2014one of the things that I\u2019m really grateful for now, eight months out from my wife\u2019s passing, and just realizing the level of desire that she had to lean into the Spirit of God\u2014and now, I look at the fruit that was borne out of the ministry that she built: first and foremost with my girls, and then second, with her earthly ministry in <em>For Girls Like You<\/em>.\n\nYou know, I even think legacy\u2014like leaving something behind\u2014is one of those fruits that\u2019s borne out of living the life of the Spirit. I was actually reading about it in Proverbs this morning. But that\u2019s just a reality that I get to think about, often, right now\u2014just where I am with my wife not being here\u2014but realizing that she\u2019s, literally, still present through a godly legacy that she\u2019s left behind here on earth, through investing in the kingdom. It\u2019s a beautiful thing.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>If someone asked you, \u201cHow do I get filled with the Holy Spirit?\u201d what would your simple answer be?\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; it\u2019s probably a clich\u00e9 one; but \u201cSeek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you.\u201d I would say: \u201cThat\u2019s it\u2014it\u2019s seeking God. Seeking God looks like a lot of different things, but it looks like looking for Jesus in everything\u2014looking for His kingdom purposes, looking to His Word, finding godly people around you that you see that being exemplified in. There are a lot of different methods, but seeking means seeking\u2014like it\u2019s looking for it; trying to find it\u201d; you know.\n\nI wish I could give like a step one, a step two, and a step three; but the only step I can give is: \u201cSeeking, first, God\u2019s kingdom and His purposes.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, I think, Jonathan, what you write about in the book is really that emptying, which, in a sense, is taking my will, which\u2014every second of my day\u2014is fighting for first place.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I want <em>my<\/em> way in my marriage\/in my life\u2014you name it. It\u2019s fighting\/it\u2019s saying, \u201cI\u2019m going to lay that down\/empty that out,\u201d\u2014which is <em>hard<\/em>; because it\u2019s every day; or most of it\u2019s every <em>minute<\/em>, because it raises back up\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m going to empty that; I\u2019m going to lay that down.\u201d What replaces that, as we were talking about earlier, is the Spirit of God then floods in that empty space\u2014that we say: \u201cOkay, God; come in. Do Your will.\u201d\n\nLet\u2019s talk about this, because you get into this in your book. The fruit of that\/the fruit of the Spirit\u2014capital \u201cS\u201d; not my human spirit; the Spirit of God in my life\u2014is really one fruit that has sort of nine character qualities. Talk about it.\n\nSo, the first one\u2019s love. That\u2019s a word that <em>nobody<\/em> understands: \u201cI love you,\u201d \u201cI love ice cream,\u201d\u2014you know? \u201cWhat\u2019s it mean?\u201d\u2014it means nothing. But yes: \u201cWhat does love look like?\u2014the Spirit of God doing godly love in your marriage\/in your life, what\u2019s that fruit look like?\u201d\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Well, it looks like something; I can tell you that. It\u2019s very practical in nature. It\u2019s not ethereal; it\u2019s not an idea; it\u2019s an action\u2014so Jesus, when He loved us\u2014He took <em>action<\/em>.\n\nMy wife <em>loved<\/em> surprises. I could easily just\u2014you know, I\u2019m just a guy; I\u2019m a typical guy that doesn\u2019t like to work really hard when it comes to things like that\u2014it\u2019s sad, but it\u2019s true. I didn\u2019t want to work hard to surprise her. It would take me years to develop the understanding that a part of loving her well was surprising her, because that was something that she really enjoyed.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>She loved it?\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; she <em>loved<\/em> it! I got better and better at it; and I executed it perfectly on our 15<sup>th<\/sup> anniversary, which I think I talked about earlier. But it\u2019s just like\u2014love looks like something; and depending on who our spouse is, it looks different. So, love looks like my stopping from biting my fingernails; love looks like surprising her.\n\nLove\u2014it\u2019s <em>so<\/em> many different things, and it works itself out in so many different ways; but it\u2019s tangible, and it\u2019s not just an idea. I can\u2019t just say to Wynter, or I couldn\u2019t just say to Wynter, \u201cWell, I love you; so that makes all\u2026\u201d\u2014no; show your love\u2014let it be worked out in action.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s interesting, because another fruit that you talk about is joy. As I watch you and think: \u201cShe\u2019s been gone\u2014Wynter has been gone eight months\u2014and yet, you exude a joy. I see it in you\u2014it\u2019s palpable; it\u2019s present. How do you have that joy?\u201d\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Well, one, it\u2019s all God; but I think back to that Scripture, \u201cFor the joy set before Him He endured the cross.\u201d\u00a0 In my marriage, although I wasn\u2019t perfect, I was intentional to try to die daily to myself, and my desires, and my wants. Now, I just feel like in this moment\u2014I\u2019ll tell you story.\n\nI\u2019m backing up a little bit more. Dr. Evans was teaching\u2014I was at Dr. Evans\u2019 church\/Tony Evans\u2019 church. He\u2019s teaching on Esther\/the Book of Esther. He\u2019s talking about how Esther had a choice to make between, basically, potentially giving up her life to the save the Jewish people or just being like: \u201cYou know what? I\u2019m good; I\u2019m in the king\u2019s palace; I\u2019m going to sit back.\u201d\n\nI had this moment, where I wrote down that: \u201cGod wants to use me, but to the degree that I actually give up what I want to serve God\u2019s purposes will be to the degree that God can use me.\u201d It\u2019s like God was driving me towards more and more giving up what I wanted for His purposes, which meant, a lot of days, being sacrificial. Now, my joy is\u2014because of the endurance I had in marriage and because of the things that I decided to give up, intentionally\u2014it was hard most days. It was hard to the very end; it\u2019s <em>always<\/em> hard\u2014like it\u2019s always going to be hard giving up what you want; you know?\n\nIf I wouldn\u2019t have sacrificed for my wife\/if I would have been more selfish\u2014I\u2019m not saying that I wasn\u2019t selfish, but if I weren\u2019t working on that\u2014I would have tremendous regret right now, and that joy wouldn\u2019t be present.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s not that you don\u2019t have grief. We\u2019ve already talked about the fact that grieving is still there.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; well, no. What the gospel gives us\/what Jesus gives us is the paradox\u2014you know, you have sorrow on one side and joy\u2014you could have joy in the sorrow.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s what I see.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That\u2019s what, for me, grief is right now\u2014joy in the sorrow. I can talk about my wife, and just have joy in my heart for what I had\u2014the gift that she was to me and the gift that I didn\u2019t even know that\u2014like she was a gift in a lot of ways, and I didn\u2019t even know I needed a gift.\n\nA couple years ago, if you\u2019d have told me I\u2019d be sitting around this table, talking to you guys, I\u2019d be like: \u201cI\u2019m not worthy of that. I can\u2019t do that,\u201d and Wynter would be speaking confidence into me, like: \u201cGod\u2019s made you for this. God\u2019s crafted you for this.\u201d She would speak confidence into me\u2014that was a gift, you know.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, we look at that list in Galatians 5 and we, most often, will ask about ourselves, personally, \u201cDo I have love, and joy, and peace, and patience, and kindness?\u201d But stop and think about your marriage, and just say: \u201cIs this a marriage that is characterized by love? Is this a relationship where joy is present? Is this a relationship where there\u2019s peace in the relationship?\u201d\n\nNow, all of a sudden, we\u2019re talking, not just about an individual, but about a Spirit-filled marriage. For it to get there, both of you have to be walking in the Spirit\u2014you both have to be filled with the Spirit\/surrendered to Christ. It\u2019s one thing for me to be joyful\u2014that\u2019s a good thing\u2014but when <em>we\u2019re<\/em> joyful in marriage, together, that\u2019s not just one plus one, that\u2019s kind of like two times twelve.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The joy that\u2019s there, when you\u2019re both operating in that, is pretty spectacular.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Actually, you get to experience it at a lot of levels; for us, specifically, in ministry. When we both got on purpose in our marriage, like God began to grow us and use our marriage in a way\u2014and our parenting\u2014[in a way] we never would have thought possible. I\u2019m really grateful for it.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Honestly, there are a lot of listeners, whose husband or wife <em>won\u2019t<\/em> pursue Christ like they are; so they\u2019re sitting here, listening to us, like, \u201cOkay; I\u2019m listening to couples, whose spouse is on-fire for Christ like they are; but what do <em>I<\/em> do when my husband won\u2019t go to church with me?\u201d or \u201c\u2026will go, but he\u2019s not going to surrender all?\u201d or \u201cMy wife won\u2019t\u2026\u201d\u00a0 What do you say to that spouse, who\u2019s sort of alone in this; but they have to empty when they know their spouse isn\u2019t going to empty? How do they navigate that?\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I mean, I would first say that\u2019s kind of what Jesus did for us.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>You know, it\u2019s what He did for us! But I mean, that\u2019s a very biblical answer; but the reality is\u2014you know, like Paul\u2019s talking about that specifically to wives, that you can win your spouse\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>First Peter.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; 1 Peter\u2014you can win your spouse over just by your faithfulness. But yes, I think you have a unique opportunity to show them Christ in you. You know, \u201cFor the joy set before you endure\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>In a sense, it really is sort of the hardest thing to do; because when your spouse isn\u2019t going where you want them to go, our eyes get fixed on them, and one of the things we have to do\u2014I know Ann had to do this with me\u2014is take her eyes off me and look back to the One\u2014capital \u201cO\u201d One\/Jesus\u2014and say: \u201cThat\u2019s where my life is. I\u2019m going to find it there.\u201d\n\nThe more we look at our spouse, the more disappointed we might get; because they\u2019re not going where we want. God can fill us ourselves, and then we can do what 1 Peter said\u2014then I can respect my man\/then I can love my woman in a way that <em>draws<\/em> them to the One, who\u2019s given me the power to do it.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; another thing I would say is\u2014I think we talk about this in the book\u2014this reality of\/like there are qualities\u2014even if our spouses aren\u2019t perfect, there are qualities in them that we can call out that, actually\u2014just like with our kids; we can call out qualities in them that make them want them to rise to the occasion.\n\nI would encourage them to call out\u2014if you see a godly characteristic in your spouse, like call it out. Even if it\u2019s not perfect\u2014or there\u2019s 90 percent that\u2019s bad\u2014where\u2019s the\n\n10 percent that you can call out and just encourage them in?\n\nWe did a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>; and we wrote these letters, where we were calling out on each other. I have Wynter\u2019s\u2014that\u2019s a gift to me from 2014\u2014a letter that she wrote to me that I want to read, if you don\u2019t mind.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019d love to hear it.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>This is her calling out what she sees in me\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is the love letter that she wrote to you during the project on Saturday at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>\u20142014 I think it was. Yes; and it\u2019s on the letterhead, so I\u2019m not lying. [Laughter]\n\nIt says:\n\nDear Jonathan, When we first met,\u2014\n\nHer handwriting\u2019s not that great, so\u2014\n\nDear Jonathan, When we first met, I could tell there was something different about you. You were genuine and kind, without seeking anything in return. You were louder than me, and I was actually drawn to that. I appreciate your ability to speak up and to be able to talk to anyone. You know that you are not shy, but it comes from such a pure place of loving people; and I appreciate that, and I\u2019ve grown from you in that.\n\nYou have so many qualities that I don\u2019t have, and they seem to drive me nuts; but I\u2019m learning that it is because you challenge me to grow. It\u2019s your self-discipline with working out, or eating healthy, or discipling the girls and I. You are showing the girls and I what it looks like to die to self and live in humility. Thank you for that.\n\nI am committed to receiving you and all the pieces of who you are. I know that God gave you to me because I needed the you He created you to be in my life. I receive you and value you. You are my gift, and the more I unwrap, the more precious you are and the more I realize how much of you is needed and wanted in my life. Thank you for always being you. I am so excited to continue to grow with you. Signed, Beezy\n\n\u2014which was her nickname.\n\nThere were probably a hundred things that Wynter could have put on a sheet of paper to tell me what I\u2019m <em>not<\/em> doing right, even in that moment, just a couple years ago. But one of the things I loved about that weekend was just this great opportunity to be able to call out in each other just what you see\u2014the godly characteristics and all that\u2014so that\u2019s special; it\u2019s framed on my bedroom wall.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s really cool. I was thinking, \u201cYou know, we called it, at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>\u2014we called it a love letter; but as you read that, I thought, \u2018To you, that was a respect letter.\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, I\u2019ve said this many times\u2014Ann, over the years, would give me a love anniversary card: \u201cI love you,\u201d and throw it in the trash. [Laughter] I mean, I\u2019d say, \u201cThanks; but when I went to my office later, I\u2019d just, \u201cAh, that\u2019s nice.\u201d But then, she started to write things like that\u2014and you saved it, and I saved it\u2014because it\u2019s a life-giving respect. \u201cI believe in you,\u201d is what Wynter said.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>How beautiful that is that you have that.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I want to read, from the last chapter of your book, just a paragraph-and-a-half here. You said:\n\nOn our marriage journey, we can\u2019t deny God\u2019s preordained hand brought us together. The things that had to happen or not happen for us to be together are clearly seen when we look back. We\u2019ve faced a few moments of perceived destruction that could have ended, in death, to our joy, death to intimacy, death to our peace, even death to our marriage; yet in those moments, we have learned to say, like Esther, \u201cIf I must die, I must die.\u201d It hasn\u2019t been an easy process. We\u2019re still learning to accept death to fulfill the fairytale ending that God has planned to us.\n\nWe know what you\u2019re thinking: \u201cI don\u2019t want to die\u201d; well, neither do we. Thankfully, we aren\u2019t necessarily talking about physical death, but figurative death; though God does call some to die for a spouse, but rarely. He\u2019s calling us to die to anything and everything that is not of His Spirit, to whatever keeps His Spirit from growing inside of us.\n\nYou pushed \u201cSend\u201d on that manuscript; and a few hours later, your wife had passed from this life to the next. It had been\u2014not spiritual death\/not dying to self\u2014but it was death. But even hearing those words, again, that the two of you wrote together\u2014those are precious words.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; yes. [Emotion in voice] It\u2019s kind of crazy to think about where I am right now, and even\u2014I haven\u2019t read that last chapter there in awhile. It\u2019s ended physically\u2014\u201c\u2026till death do us part\u201d\u2014it\u2019s ended, physically, for us now; but I\u2019m forever grateful for this project. It\u2019s, literally, for me, something I\u2019ll always have\u2014just to remember what God has done in our marriage and is continuing to do through it, even though it\u2019s ended now.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is a memorial stone.\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes; yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; and it\u2019s a gift for <em>all<\/em> of us\u2014to not only read about your journey\u2014but to see the insights that you guys had into what it looks like to align your marriage with God\u2019s purposes, and we\u2019re grateful for this.\n\nThank you for being here. Thanks for sharing your story; thanks for crying a couple of times. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Thank you for making me cry a couple times.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And for listeners\u2014if you\u2019d like to get a copy of the book, <em>Emptied<\/em>, we have it for you in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Go, online, to FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy. Again, the title of the book is <em>Emptied<\/em>\u2014by Wynter and Jonathan Pitts\u2014<em>Experiencing the Fullness of a Poured-Out Marriage<\/em>. Order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order: 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nYou know, thinking about a marriage that is designed to honor Christ\u2014and that\u2019s our goal with marriage\u2014that\u2019s something we can\u2019t accomplish on our own. David Robbins, the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is with us; and that\u2019s a principle you\u2019ve learned, both experientially and theologically; right?\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>Yes; I mean, if we\u2019re going to empty ourselves and not have the power of God be the thing that fills us to be able to live out the things He\u2019s inviting us to step into, then we will be worn down, empty vessels. I mean, the way He did it is: \u201cI\u2019m going to put the resurrection power of Christ inside of you, and fill you to and move you to live out and follow what I\u2019m inviting you into.\u201d\n\nIf you haven\u2019t heard me say this before\u2014at some point in this journey together, you will get sick of me saying this\u2014but kind of a life mantra I\u2019ve had to learn is that: \u201cIf dependency is the goal, then weakness is actually an advantage,\u201d\u2014just as\n\n2 Corinthians 12 says: \u201cHis power is made perfect in our weakness.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>\u201cHis grace will be sufficient.\u201d A lot of times, though, we seek to serve and not actually tap into the power source of Him being inside of us\u2014His Spirit. If we\u2019re following Jesus, His Spirit\u2019s inside of us and He enables us to be able to depend upon Him and to live it out.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, if we\u2019re feeling strong and confident in our marriage, we ought to pause for a minute; right?\n\n<strong>David: <\/strong>I think there are seasons, where we can delight in it, I will say, where God just gifts us with grace; and we\u2019re really enjoying. <em>But<\/em> if we think we have everything handled, I think, oftentimes, we\u2019re always called to trust God for things bigger than ourselves. If we feel like we have it all under control, we may need to pause and ask Him, \u201cGod, am I really living the God-sized life?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s good, David. Thank you for that.\n\nLet me, once again, remind our regular listeners about something pretty exciting going on, here, at FamilyLife. We have had some friends of the ministry recently come to us\u2014knowing that summer is just around the corner and that, during the summer months, we often see some decline in donation revenue\u2014and as a ministry, that is on the air every day throughout the summer and experiences ongoing costs throughout the summer months, these friends came and said, \u201cWe\u2019d like to help you make sure you head into summer in good shape.\u201d They have agreed to match every donation we receive, during the month of May, on a dollar-for-dollar basis, up to a total of $645,000\u2014very generous offer on their part.\n\nWe hope to take full advantage of that matching-gift opportunity. To do that, we\u2019re asking you to make a donation. In fact, we\u2019re hoping\u2014if you\u2019re a regular listener\/you\u2019ve been listening for awhile\u2014would you consider becoming one of our monthly Legacy Partners? Legacy Partners provide the financial underpinnings for this ministry\u2014you make the ongoing operation of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible.\n\nBecause of this matching gift, if you sign up and become a Legacy Partner during the month of May, two things are going to happen: first, every donation you make for the next 12 months is going to be matched, dollar for dollar, until the matching-gift funds are gone; and second, we\u2019ll send you, as a thank-you gift, a gift card so that either you, as a couple, or someone you know can attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, either one of the remaining getaways this spring, or into the fall, or even into next year.\n\nMaybe you know somebody getting married\u2014you\u2019d like to give this to them as a gift. The gift card is our expression of thanks to you when you support the ministry of FamilyLife by becoming a Legacy Partner this month. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com; you can donate online or become a Legacy Partner online. Help us take full advantage of this matching-gift opportunity. We appreciate your partnership with us.\n\nIf it\u2019s easier to contact us by calling, our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. You can donate over the phone or find out more about becoming a Legacy Partner. Again, the number is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to tackle a question that was sent to us by a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener. The question really revolves around, \u201cWhat do you do if you\u2019re in a loveless marriage?\u2014a marriage where your spouse has said, \u2018I don\u2019t have any love for you\u2019?\u201d How do you handle that? Dave and Ann Wilson and I will tackle that tomorrow. We\u2019ll talk about what it\u2019s like being in a Leah-like marriage. If you\u2019ve read Genesis, you know what we\u2019re talking about. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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