{"id":305027,"date":"2019-05-17T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-05-17T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/finding-freedom-by-inviting-others-in\/"},"modified":"2019-05-17T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2019-05-17T15:00:00","slug":"finding-freedom-by-inviting-others-in","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-freedom-by-inviting-others-in\/","title":{"rendered":"Finding Freedom By Inviting Others In"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Jay Stringer | Series: Unwanted | Mental health counselor Jay Stringer encourages those struggling with unwanted sexual behavior to invite others into their story. According to Stringer, half of those who struggle with pornography or infidelity felt they didn&#8217;t have anyone to talk to. If they&#8217;ll share their story and talk about their shame, they&#8217;ll invite others in, and then they can start asking the hard questions like, &#8220;What is it in my story that pulls me into this behavior?&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tJourney into the Heart of Man Journey with Jay Stringer, a guided journey for men and women out of unwanted sexual behavior.\u00a0https:\/\/www.heartofmanjourney.com\/<br \/>\n \tLearn more about becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jay Stringer encourages those struggling with unwanted sexual behavior to invite others into their story. If they&#8217;ll invite others in, then they can start asking the hard questions.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-17.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:33:03","filesize":"30.27M","filesize_raw":"31742939","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2844,2827,2088],"tags":[2989,6622],"podcast_series":[8274],"cwp_profile":[9535],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305027","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-pornography","category-repentance","category-romance-and-sex","tag-pornography","tag-unwanted","podcast_series-unwanted","cwp_profile-jay-stringer","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305027\/finding-freedom-by-inviting-others-in","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305027\/finding-freedom-by-inviting-others-in","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"U1otDtKupx\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-freedom-by-inviting-others-in\/\">Finding Freedom By Inviting Others In<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-freedom-by-inviting-others-in\/embed\/#?secret=U1otDtKupx\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Finding Freedom By Inviting Others In&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"U1otDtKupx\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-17.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-17.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Many men and woman have found that sexual sin and sexual temptation are a persistent problem. Something that they struggle with for years. Here\u2019s Jay Stringer.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> <a id=\"_Hlk7738092\"><\/a>One of my friends recently said to me\u2014he said, \u201cJay, when I\u2019ve been having the same conversation with my accountability partner for 15 years, something isn\u2019t working.\u201d That\u2019s part of what this journey is all about. Romans 12:2 says \u201cDo not be conformed to the ways of this world, but to be transformed by the renewing of your mind.\u201d You really can\u2019t renew your sexual mind if you don\u2019t know what\u2019s actually in there to begin with.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, May 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine.\n\nSexual sin is like nut grass. It\u2019s like a weed that won\u2019t go away unless you get to the root. That\u2019s what we\u2019re going to spend time talking about today. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019re talking about something this week that we\u2019ve already said is at epidemic levels\u2014maybe pandemic levels. If the CDC called this a disease, we\u2019d be quarantining, right?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But this is one of those things that\u2019s under the surface for most people.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s hidden.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; so people are functioning and coping but this is robbing them. It\u2019s invading their soul and robbing them of joy and of life and of peace. We\u2019re talking about the subject of lust.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I was thinking you hadn\u2019t told us what we\u2019re talking about so it could have been fantasy football or something. [Laughter] Man oh man. We are going deep into a hard topic that is so crucial to talk about. I\u2019m really glad we\u2019re talking about it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I am, too, because I think people are looking for help\u2014because they\u2019re carrying a lot of shame in this area. They\u2019re asking people like \u201cHelp me,\u201d but they\u2019re afraid to reach out and ask that.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And a lot of defeat. They\u2019re not winning, and they want \u201cSomebody help me out of here.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, Jay Stringer\u2019s been joining us all this week to help us with this. Jay, welcome back.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> Thank you for having me back.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jay is an author. He\u2019s a therapist. He lives in the Seattle area with his wife, Heather, and their two kids. He\u2019s written a book called <em>Unwanted: How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing<\/em>. At the heart of this book is a research study that you did with 3800 respondents, exploring what\u2019s going on in our world, but specifically in churches among Christians as it deals with this subject of sexual temptation and lust.\n\nWe\u2019ve been talking about the problem this week, but we want to talk at this point about the solution and how you get to a place of victory. When I say that, I almost hesitate to use that word because it sounds a little clich\u00e9d, you know?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And yet people are really wanting it.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They want to be free from the guilt and the shame and the control of this. What should we be aiming for? What\u2019s the place we should get to where we could go \u201cThis is where God wants me to be\u201d?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> What I would recommend is that when we think about sexual brokenness, we think about it in terms of \u201cThis is a roadmap to healing and growth not necessarily a life sentence to sexual sin.\u201d So what that means is that our sexual brokenness is one of the primary places through which the work of redemption is going to be played out in our life. Rather than feeling like we need to hide or suppress the things that are difficult and broken about who we are, we can actually bring them to the surface and study them.\n\nI know what that immediately conjures up is just a sense of shame of \u201cYou\u2019re asking me to name and to talk about something that for my whole life has been a secret or that I\u2019ve been keeping from people.\u201d\n\nSo what I would say happens to most of us in the midst of our sexual shame and failure is that we try to change principally out of self-hatred. We hate ourselves for what we\u2019ve done\u2014for our inability to find freedom and so we hate ourselves. Then we go into different types of lust management where we try and just prevent desire from taking over our life. And yet, part of what I think we need to begin to do is to turn towards our shame and let other people know where we harbor it. So many times the power of these unwanted behaviors\u2014the power of them is actually derived from our flight from them, but if we can begin to turn and face them, that\u2019s really where we begin to disempower this really nasty beast of shame.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So let me get real practical with you. For me as a young woman, I had a lot of shame I carried because of abuse\/because of some other things. So my self-talk, which I wasn\u2019t ever aware of, were things like \u201cYou\u2019re so stupid. You\u2019re ugly. You\u2019re worthless. You\u2019re forgotten.\u201d\u2014not even realizing it; that would be with me all of the time. So for that listener that\u2019s faced with those realities on a day to day basis, what do they do with that?\u2014because that\u2019s shame.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> I\u2019d start with this premise that the God of the universe is not ashamed of you. What we know in Romans 2:4 is that \u201cDo you not know that it is the kindness of God that leads to change.\u201d\n\nSo much of that self-talk that fills our lives is really that language, again, of self-contempt and self-hatred. Self-contempt is a really, terrible motivator for change. We can definitely do it. If you don\u2019t like your body, then you can hate yourself and go to the gym. You can hate yourself and try to just fix something really fast, but it\u2019s not until you begin to really learn how to extend kindness to yourself, in the very midst of your struggle, that change really happens.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting as you talk, Jay, I\u2019m noticing something I\u2019ve heard all throughout our conversation is truth from the Word of God. So I was thinking as Ann was saying that we hear lies, we hear lies, and you\u2019re like \u201cOkay, we\u2019ve got to attack that and replace it,\u201d and what I don\u2019t want people to miss is you know the Word of God. You keep quoting it. You\u2019re never going to replace those lies unless you make a decision\u2014one way to attack the shame\/to attack the lie is go to where truth is found: The Word of God.\n\nYou\u2019ve got to make it a daily decision and say \u201cI\u2019m going to input that into my brain rather than the lies. I\u2019ve got to counteract it.\u201d So anyway, I was just making that observation; you\u2019re a man of the Word. That\u2019s where you got your truth, right?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> Indeed.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So what\u2019s that look like for you to get that? How do you do that?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> Back to that point where the angel of the Lord pursues Hagar in a place where she\u2019s likely going to die. It\u2019s there that the angel of the Lord says, \u201cWhere do you come from and where are you going?\u201d\n\nThat\u2019s what God is inviting us into. It\u2019s not the reigning in of our desire but, inexplicably, He\u2019s given us the keys to His kingdom\u2014to open up doors of beauty that we can\u2019t even begin to conceive of at the height of our brokenness. So to me that\u2019s what this gospel is all about. It\u2019s not about the cessation of desire. It\u2019s not about annihilating some aspect of our life, but it\u2019s actually to allow our hearts to be free, to pursue goodness and beauty. I firmly believe that that\u2019s what God wants for us in our lives.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There is a hymn\u2014I\u2019ve quoted this before, but it\u2019s so meaningful to me. The second verse says, \u201cWhen Satan tempts me to despair.\u201d I mean how often does that happen? \u201cAnd tells me of the guilt within,\u201d\u2014and when the voice in your head is telling you of the guilt within, you can identify where that voice comes from. God will bring conviction. Satan brings shame.\n\n\u201cWhen Satan tempts me to despair,\n\nand tells me of the guilt within,\n\nUpward I look, and see Him there\n\nWho made an end to all my sin.\n\nThen it goes on to say\n\nBecause the sinless Savior died,\n\nMy sinful soul is counted free,\n\nFor God, the Just, is satisfied\n\nTo look on Him and pardon me.\n\nI\u2019ve sung that to myself over and over again in the battle with shame and guilt\u2014to just say \u201cI know what to do with this. I just need to look up and say, \u2018There\u2019s Jesus who bore it and God is satisfied with what He\u2019s done with it, and He\u2019s pardoned me.\u2019\u201d That\u2019s the message of the gospel.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I totally relate to that because I remember reading when Paul talks about take every thought captive. I would let those thoughts\/the lies about myself\u2014they were running rampant in my mind. I wasn\u2019t taking them captive at all. So I was trying to learn to replace those lies with the truth of even Psalm 139, \u201cFor you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother\u2019s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;\u201d\n\nThat\u2019s true and that\u2019s how God always sees us\u2014no matter what we\u2019ve done, no matter what we\u2019ve looked at, or what has happened to us. He always sees that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But then that Psalm takes you right to the end, which is what we\u2019ve been talking about, \u201cSearch me, O God, know my heart; see if there be wicked ways in me, and lead me in paths of righteousness.\u201d It\u2019s that exploration that is the beginning of the path to healing, isn\u2019t it? That\u2019s what you\u2019ve been telling us all this week.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, and Jay you talk about listening to our hearts. What does that mean?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> With regard to recovery from sexual brokenness, most of us, again, go into these lust management protocols where we bounce the eyes, we try to suppress desire. But what I invite my clients into, and certainly the reader of this book, is to really imagine your life as a house. Let\u2019s just imagine that it\u2019s late in the evening and you hear that familiar knock of lust on the door. What are you going to do? In the past, you may have called\/phoned a friend for back up. You may have put some surveillance over your house. Maybe you go and shoot the intruder; or at other points in your story, you\u2019ve just let this intruder come in and ransack your house.\n\nBut what I\u2019m proposing is that you actually go out onto the front porch and you acknowledge your lust and you say \u201cWhy are you here? What is it about my life? What is it about my house that makes you think that you would even be welcomed here?\u201d And then to ask it questions \u201cWhy am I so drawn to you?\u201d\n\nAs one of my friends recently said to me\u2014he said, \u201cJay, when I\u2019ve been having the same conversation with my accountability partner for 15 years, something isn\u2019t working.\u201d That\u2019s part of what this journey is all about. Romans 12:2 says \u201cDo not be conformed to the ways of this world, but to be transformed by the renewing of your mind.\u201d You really can\u2019t renew your sexual mind if you don\u2019t know what\u2019s actually in there to begin with.\n\nVery similar to Psalm 139 that God knows the depths of our hearts. He knows what our minds are thinking. Then at the end it says, \u201cHow precious\/how wonderful are your thoughts about me.\u201d That to me is so much of where the healing process comes in is to really begin to listen to \u201cWhy am I able as a man\/as a woman to be seduced into this infidelity?\u2014to be seduced into this pornography?\u201d I think part of what we recognize is that there are some really broken dynamics within us, within our family of origin, but also in our day to day life that are actually crying out for us to engage.\n\nSo what I\u2019m trying to underscore is this issue of lust is not ever random in our life, but it\u2019s a direct reflection of parts of our story that we haven\u2019t engaged. So when we listen to our lust, what we actually identify is that there\u2019s a lot of significant stories that await our engagement, and if we\u2019re not going to attend to those stories, we can expect the involvement with sexual brokenness.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m guessing you would say if I\u2019m going to go out on the front porch and talk to that temptation, I lust, I should probably take somebody with me. What\u2019s the value of having some community in that discussion?\u2014talk about that a little bit. How critical is it to have somebody else on this journey with you?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> So well said. In my research, what we found was that 59% of people that were struggling with unwanted sexual behavior did not have someone that they felt like they could talk to. What we did find among those that actually did pursue someone to talk to when they were struggling, is they saw a 22% reduction in unwanted sexual behavior.\n\nPart of the reason for that is that when we don\u2019t hold our stories just to ourselves, that sense of accusation that\u2019s really where that comes on line is in our isolation. But when we share our story and we talk about some of the shame, and some of the specifics about the things that have captured our imagination and our thought life through out many decades, we actually invite other people into our shame and into our story.\n\nThat\u2019s really the conversation that I want to invite people into is don\u2019t just let it be \u201cI messed up three times last week. I messed up two times last week.\u201d Actually begin to talk about what is it within your story that actually makes you drawn to this specific unwanted sexual behavior that has really been part of your life for decades.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You put together an 18-week series for men to go through called <em>The Heart of Man Journey,<\/em> to start to address some of these issues. I heard about it. I thought \u201cI\u2019d like the three-week version.\u201d\n\n[Laughter]\n\n\u201cI would like the microwave version because I just\u201418 weeks might be a little more invasive than I want to get to, and I\u2019d just kind of like this to go away easier than that.\u201d So have you got a three-week version?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> This work cannot be rushed.\n\n[Laughter]\n\n<em>The Heart of Man Journey\u2014<\/em>you can find it at www.heartofmanjourney.com. And just as we\u2019ve been talking about how sexual brokenness is not random, the road to recovery is not random either. I teamed up with a film called <em>The Heart of Man<\/em>. It\u2019s available on Netflix right now. Basically what that film is all about is to basically invite people to see that your shame is not a barrier, but it\u2019s actually the very bridge to the longing and to the healing that you\u2019ve been waiting for. So what they underscore in that film is what is the heart of the Father towards us when we find ourselves in a broken place? It\u2019s full of love and it\u2019s full of pursuit.\n\nWhat this 18-week journey is all about is for you to begin to connect the story between how does my sexual brokenness\u2014actually, how is it informed by the story of my life? What we started realizing was that there was a lot of churches and accountability partners that were having the same conversations and wondering why there wasn\u2019t change and healing taking place. What I would say to that is it wasn\u2019t going deep enough into the \u201cWhy?\u201d to help people identify, and also transform, some of those key drivers of unwanted sexual behavior.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When I heard you say \u201c18 weeks,\u201d I was the opposite of Bob. I know Bob\u2019s being facetious about it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And Bob\u2019s brilliant. He could do it in three weeks.\n\n[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He could do it in three. I need at least 18. But I did think when you said that\u2014I thought, \u201cFinally somebody\u2019s going to lead people on a journey to get to the core.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to the root.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s going to take at least 18 weeks. I mean, think about it. You\u2019re not going to change your physical body in three weeks, right? There\u2019s all these 30 days, 60 days\u2014I did the P90X\u2014you know three months. This is so much even more important. It\u2019s like \u201cMan, I want to go on this journey.\u201d When I hear them, I want to encourage people take this journey.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because it brings freedom.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, and Jay, let me ask you this because I talk to so many wives who are so frustrated because their husband is really struggling with this, continues to struggle. Some wives I talk to say, \u201cI don\u2019t want to know about this,\u201d and others are like \u201cHelp me! I don\u2019t know what to do.\u201d How would you encourage wives or spouses that maybe their spouse isn\u2019t necessarily trying to get help?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> One of the things that some of the research\u2014not mine\u2014has shown is that women often waited far too long to pursue healing for this dimension of their married life. So a lot of times that voice of self-hatred can kind of come back of \u201cWhat\u2019s wrong with me? What\u2019s going on in my own life that he\u2019s not available to me?\u201d Or \u201cIt must mean something about <em>me<\/em>.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So it triggers all of that.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> It triggers all of that. So I think that that would be the encouragement is how do you begin to pursue your own friendship or therapeutic work around these are some of the lies that are coming up in me. This is some of the difficult place that I\u2019m in because what we want to invite people into is really to know that brokenness, whether it\u2019s your husbands or your own, is the context for relationship to take place. That\u2019s where so much healing begins to take place is when we actually begin to turn and face the things that we\u2019re struggling with and that are hard.\n\nSo I would just encourage women to not wait months or years\u2014because a lot of times, a lot of the stories that I will hear, a woman might find out about her husband\u2019s pornography use or an affair and it\u2019s not until five or six years later that their marriage is kind of in need of resuscitation that they realize that they\u2019ve never pursued help for that story.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So the person who\u2019s going to pick up your book or who\u2019s going to go through <em>The Heart of Man Journey<\/em> I\u2019m guessing is either desperate or really courageous. It\u2019s not going to be the casual person who\u2019s going to go \u201cThat sounds like an interesting book. I was looking for something to read at the beach this summer. I\u2019ll pick up Jay\u2019s book,\u201d right?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019ll read it on the airplane.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> If you look in the mirror and go \u201cI could probably lose a couple of pounds,\u201d you\u2019re never losing anything. But when you look in the mirror and go \u201cThat\u2019s it. I am a holy disgust. I need to change,\u201d that\u2019s the person who is going to go on this journey.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> Yes, and this journey is for men and women as well. Part of what we started recognizing is that most resources that are out there for churches and accountability partners are very male oriented, and so we wanted to really bring material and a curriculum for women as well.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I believe every single person will benefit from reading this book because I would guess that if you talk to 100 people, 99 people have some sort of brokenness\u2014100 people.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I was going to say the other one is lying about it, right?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; you\u2019re right.\n\n[Laughter]\n\nWe all have brokenness and we can all benefit from going into our past and seeing \u201cWhere did that start?\u201d and \u201cWhat are the side effects of that brokenness?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And understanding what\u2019s driving us in this area and get to the heart of it. Again, Jay, that\u2019s what you do in the book, <em>Unwanted<\/em>, which we\u2019ve got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order a copy of this book when you go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nAgain, the book is called <em>Unwanted: How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing<\/em> by Jay Stringer. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on how to get a copy of the book, or order by calling 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nAnytime we talk about issues related to human sexuality, we are going to the center\/to the core of who we are and that can lead to exhilaration and that can lead to shame. David Robbins, who\u2019s the President of FamilyLife, is here with us and these are weighty issues for individuals or for couples to stop and ponder.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; it reminds me of C.S. Lewis\u2019s analogy around rats in the cellar. We all have rats in the cellar of our lives. The more layers that get peeled off as we are formed into Jesus, the more we realize all that\u2019s in the cellar of our lives. A lot of times when we try to face those, we stomp on the steps on the way down\/we beat on the walls so that when we turn on the light in the cellar, a lot of the rats are scattered. We know what\u2019s really there and we kind of make a lot of noise, so they scatter.\n\nBut we all know those situations or people or times in our relationships and marriage where the light just gets flipped on, and we see what\u2019s really there. I think a lot of times we do\u2014we run back up those stairs after we see what\u2019s really there; we slam the door. We put locks on it, and we go \u201cI will never put myself in the situation where that happens again,\u201d but certainly those situations happen again. You go through life; it doesn\u2019t fix it. Lights get turned on.\n\nI think Jesus says, \u201cLet\u2019s go in there together.\u201d He goes down with us, arm in arm, and what\u2019s amazing, I think if we were to look at Jesus\u2019 face, He\u2019s not overwhelmed. He has covered it all, and He wants to lead us out into healing and clearing out the rats in our cellar.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is where we have to remind ourselves that Romans 8:1 is true. \u201cThere is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.\u201d\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> Oh man, yes; and the depth of God\u2019s love for us in Christ far out measures the depth of our shame.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s great. Thank you, David. I want to ask our listeners to be praying for couples who are going to be attending a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway this weekend. We\u2019ve got getaways happening in Baton Rouge, Louisiana and in Madison, Wisconsin. So there will be several hundred people, spending a weekend, learning more about how to have a strong healthy marriage relationship this weekend. Pray for those folks if you would.\n\n<em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways, the resources <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> produces, this daily radio program, our website\u2014all of what we do happens because listeners like you say \u201cThis is important and we want it to continue,\u201d and you wind up making a donation to help support this ministry. The funding for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> comes from <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners, and we\u2019re grateful for those of you who are monthly Legacy Partners, or those of you who from time to time will make a donation.\n\nDuring the month of May, we\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry who have come along and offered to match every donation we receive. They\u2019ve put a matching gift fund together and when we receive a donation, they will release money from that fund up to a total of $645,000, which is pretty unbelievable. We\u2019re hoping to take full advantage of their generosity this month, and so we\u2019re hoping regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners will consider making a one-time donation or becoming a monthly Legacy Partner. If you become a monthly Legacy Partner, every donation you make for the next 12 months is going to be matched, dollar for dollar.\n\nIn addition, we\u2019re going to say \u201cThank you for your ongoing support\u201d by sending you a gift card so you and your spouse, or someone you know can attend as your guest a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. We\u2019ll send you the card that covers the complete registration when you become a Legacy Partner during the month of May. You can sign on at FamilyLifeToday.com; make your first gift there. Or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a one-time gift or to become a Legacy Partner. Thanks in advance for helping us take advantage of this matching gift opportunity, and we hope to hear from you.\n\nWe hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship in your local church together this weekend. Then join us Monday; Jonathan Pitts is going to be here. We will talk about the unexpected tragic death of his wife last summer, Winter. She died one afternoon when her heart gave out. It was right after Jonathan and Winter had finished a book on marriage. We\u2019ll talk about his experience of losing his wife and about some of these lessons on marriage that they learned over the years that they were together as husband and wife. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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Stringer encourages those struggling with unwanted sexual behavior to invite others into their story. If they'll invite others in, then they can start asking the hard questions.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-17.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Many men and woman have found that sexual sin and sexual temptation are a persistent problem. Something that they struggle with for years. Here\u2019s Jay Stringer.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> <a id=\"_Hlk7738092\"><\/a>One of my friends recently said to me\u2014he said, \u201cJay, when I\u2019ve been having the same conversation with my accountability partner for 15 years, something isn\u2019t working.\u201d That\u2019s part of what this journey is all about. Romans 12:2 says \u201cDo not be conformed to the ways of this world, but to be transformed by the renewing of your mind.\u201d You really can\u2019t renew your sexual mind if you don\u2019t know what\u2019s actually in there to begin with.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, May 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine.\n\nSexual sin is like nut grass. It\u2019s like a weed that won\u2019t go away unless you get to the root. That\u2019s what we\u2019re going to spend time talking about today. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019re talking about something this week that we\u2019ve already said is at epidemic levels\u2014maybe pandemic levels. If the CDC called this a disease, we\u2019d be quarantining, right?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But this is one of those things that\u2019s under the surface for most people.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s hidden.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; so people are functioning and coping but this is robbing them. It\u2019s invading their soul and robbing them of joy and of life and of peace. We\u2019re talking about the subject of lust.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I was thinking you hadn\u2019t told us what we\u2019re talking about so it could have been fantasy football or something. [Laughter] Man oh man. We are going deep into a hard topic that is so crucial to talk about. I\u2019m really glad we\u2019re talking about it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I am, too, because I think people are looking for help\u2014because they\u2019re carrying a lot of shame in this area. They\u2019re asking people like \u201cHelp me,\u201d but they\u2019re afraid to reach out and ask that.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And a lot of defeat. They\u2019re not winning, and they want \u201cSomebody help me out of here.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, Jay Stringer\u2019s been joining us all this week to help us with this. Jay, welcome back.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> Thank you for having me back.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jay is an author. He\u2019s a therapist. He lives in the Seattle area with his wife, Heather, and their two kids. He\u2019s written a book called <em>Unwanted: How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing<\/em>. At the heart of this book is a research study that you did with 3800 respondents, exploring what\u2019s going on in our world, but specifically in churches among Christians as it deals with this subject of sexual temptation and lust.\n\nWe\u2019ve been talking about the problem this week, but we want to talk at this point about the solution and how you get to a place of victory. When I say that, I almost hesitate to use that word because it sounds a little clich\u00e9d, you know?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And yet people are really wanting it.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They want to be free from the guilt and the shame and the control of this. What should we be aiming for? What\u2019s the place we should get to where we could go \u201cThis is where God wants me to be\u201d?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> What I would recommend is that when we think about sexual brokenness, we think about it in terms of \u201cThis is a roadmap to healing and growth not necessarily a life sentence to sexual sin.\u201d So what that means is that our sexual brokenness is one of the primary places through which the work of redemption is going to be played out in our life. Rather than feeling like we need to hide or suppress the things that are difficult and broken about who we are, we can actually bring them to the surface and study them.\n\nI know what that immediately conjures up is just a sense of shame of \u201cYou\u2019re asking me to name and to talk about something that for my whole life has been a secret or that I\u2019ve been keeping from people.\u201d\n\nSo what I would say happens to most of us in the midst of our sexual shame and failure is that we try to change principally out of self-hatred. We hate ourselves for what we\u2019ve done\u2014for our inability to find freedom and so we hate ourselves. Then we go into different types of lust management where we try and just prevent desire from taking over our life. And yet, part of what I think we need to begin to do is to turn towards our shame and let other people know where we harbor it. So many times the power of these unwanted behaviors\u2014the power of them is actually derived from our flight from them, but if we can begin to turn and face them, that\u2019s really where we begin to disempower this really nasty beast of shame.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So let me get real practical with you. For me as a young woman, I had a lot of shame I carried because of abuse\/because of some other things. So my self-talk, which I wasn\u2019t ever aware of, were things like \u201cYou\u2019re so stupid. You\u2019re ugly. You\u2019re worthless. You\u2019re forgotten.\u201d\u2014not even realizing it; that would be with me all of the time. So for that listener that\u2019s faced with those realities on a day to day basis, what do they do with that?\u2014because that\u2019s shame.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> I\u2019d start with this premise that the God of the universe is not ashamed of you. What we know in Romans 2:4 is that \u201cDo you not know that it is the kindness of God that leads to change.\u201d\n\nSo much of that self-talk that fills our lives is really that language, again, of self-contempt and self-hatred. Self-contempt is a really, terrible motivator for change. We can definitely do it. If you don\u2019t like your body, then you can hate yourself and go to the gym. You can hate yourself and try to just fix something really fast, but it\u2019s not until you begin to really learn how to extend kindness to yourself, in the very midst of your struggle, that change really happens.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting as you talk, Jay, I\u2019m noticing something I\u2019ve heard all throughout our conversation is truth from the Word of God. So I was thinking as Ann was saying that we hear lies, we hear lies, and you\u2019re like \u201cOkay, we\u2019ve got to attack that and replace it,\u201d and what I don\u2019t want people to miss is you know the Word of God. You keep quoting it. You\u2019re never going to replace those lies unless you make a decision\u2014one way to attack the shame\/to attack the lie is go to where truth is found: The Word of God.\n\nYou\u2019ve got to make it a daily decision and say \u201cI\u2019m going to input that into my brain rather than the lies. I\u2019ve got to counteract it.\u201d So anyway, I was just making that observation; you\u2019re a man of the Word. That\u2019s where you got your truth, right?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> Indeed.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So what\u2019s that look like for you to get that? How do you do that?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> Back to that point where the angel of the Lord pursues Hagar in a place where she\u2019s likely going to die. It\u2019s there that the angel of the Lord says, \u201cWhere do you come from and where are you going?\u201d\n\nThat\u2019s what God is inviting us into. It\u2019s not the reigning in of our desire but, inexplicably, He\u2019s given us the keys to His kingdom\u2014to open up doors of beauty that we can\u2019t even begin to conceive of at the height of our brokenness. So to me that\u2019s what this gospel is all about. It\u2019s not about the cessation of desire. It\u2019s not about annihilating some aspect of our life, but it\u2019s actually to allow our hearts to be free, to pursue goodness and beauty. I firmly believe that that\u2019s what God wants for us in our lives.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There is a hymn\u2014I\u2019ve quoted this before, but it\u2019s so meaningful to me. The second verse says, \u201cWhen Satan tempts me to despair.\u201d I mean how often does that happen? \u201cAnd tells me of the guilt within,\u201d\u2014and when the voice in your head is telling you of the guilt within, you can identify where that voice comes from. God will bring conviction. Satan brings shame.\n\n\u201cWhen Satan tempts me to despair,\n\nand tells me of the guilt within,\n\nUpward I look, and see Him there\n\nWho made an end to all my sin.\n\nThen it goes on to say\n\nBecause the sinless Savior died,\n\nMy sinful soul is counted free,\n\nFor God, the Just, is satisfied\n\nTo look on Him and pardon me.\n\nI\u2019ve sung that to myself over and over again in the battle with shame and guilt\u2014to just say \u201cI know what to do with this. I just need to look up and say, \u2018There\u2019s Jesus who bore it and God is satisfied with what He\u2019s done with it, and He\u2019s pardoned me.\u2019\u201d That\u2019s the message of the gospel.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I totally relate to that because I remember reading when Paul talks about take every thought captive. I would let those thoughts\/the lies about myself\u2014they were running rampant in my mind. I wasn\u2019t taking them captive at all. So I was trying to learn to replace those lies with the truth of even Psalm 139, \u201cFor you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother\u2019s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;\u201d\n\nThat\u2019s true and that\u2019s how God always sees us\u2014no matter what we\u2019ve done, no matter what we\u2019ve looked at, or what has happened to us. He always sees that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But then that Psalm takes you right to the end, which is what we\u2019ve been talking about, \u201cSearch me, O God, know my heart; see if there be wicked ways in me, and lead me in paths of righteousness.\u201d It\u2019s that exploration that is the beginning of the path to healing, isn\u2019t it? That\u2019s what you\u2019ve been telling us all this week.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, and Jay you talk about listening to our hearts. What does that mean?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> With regard to recovery from sexual brokenness, most of us, again, go into these lust management protocols where we bounce the eyes, we try to suppress desire. But what I invite my clients into, and certainly the reader of this book, is to really imagine your life as a house. Let\u2019s just imagine that it\u2019s late in the evening and you hear that familiar knock of lust on the door. What are you going to do? In the past, you may have called\/phoned a friend for back up. You may have put some surveillance over your house. Maybe you go and shoot the intruder; or at other points in your story, you\u2019ve just let this intruder come in and ransack your house.\n\nBut what I\u2019m proposing is that you actually go out onto the front porch and you acknowledge your lust and you say \u201cWhy are you here? What is it about my life? What is it about my house that makes you think that you would even be welcomed here?\u201d And then to ask it questions \u201cWhy am I so drawn to you?\u201d\n\nAs one of my friends recently said to me\u2014he said, \u201cJay, when I\u2019ve been having the same conversation with my accountability partner for 15 years, something isn\u2019t working.\u201d That\u2019s part of what this journey is all about. Romans 12:2 says \u201cDo not be conformed to the ways of this world, but to be transformed by the renewing of your mind.\u201d You really can\u2019t renew your sexual mind if you don\u2019t know what\u2019s actually in there to begin with.\n\nVery similar to Psalm 139 that God knows the depths of our hearts. He knows what our minds are thinking. Then at the end it says, \u201cHow precious\/how wonderful are your thoughts about me.\u201d That to me is so much of where the healing process comes in is to really begin to listen to \u201cWhy am I able as a man\/as a woman to be seduced into this infidelity?\u2014to be seduced into this pornography?\u201d I think part of what we recognize is that there are some really broken dynamics within us, within our family of origin, but also in our day to day life that are actually crying out for us to engage.\n\nSo what I\u2019m trying to underscore is this issue of lust is not ever random in our life, but it\u2019s a direct reflection of parts of our story that we haven\u2019t engaged. So when we listen to our lust, what we actually identify is that there\u2019s a lot of significant stories that await our engagement, and if we\u2019re not going to attend to those stories, we can expect the involvement with sexual brokenness.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m guessing you would say if I\u2019m going to go out on the front porch and talk to that temptation, I lust, I should probably take somebody with me. What\u2019s the value of having some community in that discussion?\u2014talk about that a little bit. How critical is it to have somebody else on this journey with you?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> So well said. In my research, what we found was that 59% of people that were struggling with unwanted sexual behavior did not have someone that they felt like they could talk to. What we did find among those that actually did pursue someone to talk to when they were struggling, is they saw a 22% reduction in unwanted sexual behavior.\n\nPart of the reason for that is that when we don\u2019t hold our stories just to ourselves, that sense of accusation that\u2019s really where that comes on line is in our isolation. But when we share our story and we talk about some of the shame, and some of the specifics about the things that have captured our imagination and our thought life through out many decades, we actually invite other people into our shame and into our story.\n\nThat\u2019s really the conversation that I want to invite people into is don\u2019t just let it be \u201cI messed up three times last week. I messed up two times last week.\u201d Actually begin to talk about what is it within your story that actually makes you drawn to this specific unwanted sexual behavior that has really been part of your life for decades.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You put together an 18-week series for men to go through called <em>The Heart of Man Journey,<\/em> to start to address some of these issues. I heard about it. I thought \u201cI\u2019d like the three-week version.\u201d\n\n[Laughter]\n\n\u201cI would like the microwave version because I just\u201418 weeks might be a little more invasive than I want to get to, and I\u2019d just kind of like this to go away easier than that.\u201d So have you got a three-week version?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> This work cannot be rushed.\n\n[Laughter]\n\n<em>The Heart of Man Journey\u2014<\/em>you can find it at www.heartofmanjourney.com. And just as we\u2019ve been talking about how sexual brokenness is not random, the road to recovery is not random either. I teamed up with a film called <em>The Heart of Man<\/em>. It\u2019s available on Netflix right now. Basically what that film is all about is to basically invite people to see that your shame is not a barrier, but it\u2019s actually the very bridge to the longing and to the healing that you\u2019ve been waiting for. So what they underscore in that film is what is the heart of the Father towards us when we find ourselves in a broken place? It\u2019s full of love and it\u2019s full of pursuit.\n\nWhat this 18-week journey is all about is for you to begin to connect the story between how does my sexual brokenness\u2014actually, how is it informed by the story of my life? What we started realizing was that there was a lot of churches and accountability partners that were having the same conversations and wondering why there wasn\u2019t change and healing taking place. What I would say to that is it wasn\u2019t going deep enough into the \u201cWhy?\u201d to help people identify, and also transform, some of those key drivers of unwanted sexual behavior.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When I heard you say \u201c18 weeks,\u201d I was the opposite of Bob. I know Bob\u2019s being facetious about it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And Bob\u2019s brilliant. He could do it in three weeks.\n\n[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He could do it in three. I need at least 18. But I did think when you said that\u2014I thought, \u201cFinally somebody\u2019s going to lead people on a journey to get to the core.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to the root.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s going to take at least 18 weeks. I mean, think about it. You\u2019re not going to change your physical body in three weeks, right? There\u2019s all these 30 days, 60 days\u2014I did the P90X\u2014you know three months. This is so much even more important. It\u2019s like \u201cMan, I want to go on this journey.\u201d When I hear them, I want to encourage people take this journey.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because it brings freedom.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, and Jay, let me ask you this because I talk to so many wives who are so frustrated because their husband is really struggling with this, continues to struggle. Some wives I talk to say, \u201cI don\u2019t want to know about this,\u201d and others are like \u201cHelp me! I don\u2019t know what to do.\u201d How would you encourage wives or spouses that maybe their spouse isn\u2019t necessarily trying to get help?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> One of the things that some of the research\u2014not mine\u2014has shown is that women often waited far too long to pursue healing for this dimension of their married life. So a lot of times that voice of self-hatred can kind of come back of \u201cWhat\u2019s wrong with me? What\u2019s going on in my own life that he\u2019s not available to me?\u201d Or \u201cIt must mean something about <em>me<\/em>.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So it triggers all of that.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> It triggers all of that. So I think that that would be the encouragement is how do you begin to pursue your own friendship or therapeutic work around these are some of the lies that are coming up in me. This is some of the difficult place that I\u2019m in because what we want to invite people into is really to know that brokenness, whether it\u2019s your husbands or your own, is the context for relationship to take place. That\u2019s where so much healing begins to take place is when we actually begin to turn and face the things that we\u2019re struggling with and that are hard.\n\nSo I would just encourage women to not wait months or years\u2014because a lot of times, a lot of the stories that I will hear, a woman might find out about her husband\u2019s pornography use or an affair and it\u2019s not until five or six years later that their marriage is kind of in need of resuscitation that they realize that they\u2019ve never pursued help for that story.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So the person who\u2019s going to pick up your book or who\u2019s going to go through <em>The Heart of Man Journey<\/em> I\u2019m guessing is either desperate or really courageous. It\u2019s not going to be the casual person who\u2019s going to go \u201cThat sounds like an interesting book. I was looking for something to read at the beach this summer. I\u2019ll pick up Jay\u2019s book,\u201d right?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019ll read it on the airplane.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> If you look in the mirror and go \u201cI could probably lose a couple of pounds,\u201d you\u2019re never losing anything. But when you look in the mirror and go \u201cThat\u2019s it. I am a holy disgust. I need to change,\u201d that\u2019s the person who is going to go on this journey.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong> Yes, and this journey is for men and women as well. Part of what we started recognizing is that most resources that are out there for churches and accountability partners are very male oriented, and so we wanted to really bring material and a curriculum for women as well.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I believe every single person will benefit from reading this book because I would guess that if you talk to 100 people, 99 people have some sort of brokenness\u2014100 people.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I was going to say the other one is lying about it, right?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; you\u2019re right.\n\n[Laughter]\n\nWe all have brokenness and we can all benefit from going into our past and seeing \u201cWhere did that start?\u201d and \u201cWhat are the side effects of that brokenness?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And understanding what\u2019s driving us in this area and get to the heart of it. Again, Jay, that\u2019s what you do in the book, <em>Unwanted<\/em>, which we\u2019ve got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order a copy of this book when you go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nAgain, the book is called <em>Unwanted: How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing<\/em> by Jay Stringer. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on how to get a copy of the book, or order by calling 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nAnytime we talk about issues related to human sexuality, we are going to the center\/to the core of who we are and that can lead to exhilaration and that can lead to shame. David Robbins, who\u2019s the President of FamilyLife, is here with us and these are weighty issues for individuals or for couples to stop and ponder.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; it reminds me of C.S. Lewis\u2019s analogy around rats in the cellar. We all have rats in the cellar of our lives. The more layers that get peeled off as we are formed into Jesus, the more we realize all that\u2019s in the cellar of our lives. A lot of times when we try to face those, we stomp on the steps on the way down\/we beat on the walls so that when we turn on the light in the cellar, a lot of the rats are scattered. We know what\u2019s really there and we kind of make a lot of noise, so they scatter.\n\nBut we all know those situations or people or times in our relationships and marriage where the light just gets flipped on, and we see what\u2019s really there. I think a lot of times we do\u2014we run back up those stairs after we see what\u2019s really there; we slam the door. We put locks on it, and we go \u201cI will never put myself in the situation where that happens again,\u201d but certainly those situations happen again. You go through life; it doesn\u2019t fix it. Lights get turned on.\n\nI think Jesus says, \u201cLet\u2019s go in there together.\u201d He goes down with us, arm in arm, and what\u2019s amazing, I think if we were to look at Jesus\u2019 face, He\u2019s not overwhelmed. He has covered it all, and He wants to lead us out into healing and clearing out the rats in our cellar.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is where we have to remind ourselves that Romans 8:1 is true. \u201cThere is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.\u201d\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> Oh man, yes; and the depth of God\u2019s love for us in Christ far out measures the depth of our shame.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s great. Thank you, David. I want to ask our listeners to be praying for couples who are going to be attending a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway this weekend. We\u2019ve got getaways happening in Baton Rouge, Louisiana and in Madison, Wisconsin. So there will be several hundred people, spending a weekend, learning more about how to have a strong healthy marriage relationship this weekend. Pray for those folks if you would.\n\n<em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways, the resources <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> produces, this daily radio program, our website\u2014all of what we do happens because listeners like you say \u201cThis is important and we want it to continue,\u201d and you wind up making a donation to help support this ministry. The funding for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> comes from <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners, and we\u2019re grateful for those of you who are monthly Legacy Partners, or those of you who from time to time will make a donation.\n\nDuring the month of May, we\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry who have come along and offered to match every donation we receive. They\u2019ve put a matching gift fund together and when we receive a donation, they will release money from that fund up to a total of $645,000, which is pretty unbelievable. We\u2019re hoping to take full advantage of their generosity this month, and so we\u2019re hoping regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners will consider making a one-time donation or becoming a monthly Legacy Partner. If you become a monthly Legacy Partner, every donation you make for the next 12 months is going to be matched, dollar for dollar.\n\nIn addition, we\u2019re going to say \u201cThank you for your ongoing support\u201d by sending you a gift card so you and your spouse, or someone you know can attend as your guest a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. We\u2019ll send you the card that covers the complete registration when you become a Legacy Partner during the month of May. You can sign on at FamilyLifeToday.com; make your first gift there. Or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a one-time gift or to become a Legacy Partner. Thanks in advance for helping us take advantage of this matching gift opportunity, and we hope to hear from you.\n\nWe hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship in your local church together this weekend. Then join us Monday; Jonathan Pitts is going to be here. We will talk about the unexpected tragic death of his wife last summer, Winter. She died one afternoon when her heart gave out. It was right after Jonathan and Winter had finished a book on marriage. We\u2019ll talk about his experience of losing his wife and about some of these lessons on marriage that they learned over the years that they were together as husband and wife. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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