{"id":305021,"date":"2019-05-15T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-05-15T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/how-did-i-get-here\/"},"modified":"2019-05-15T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2019-05-15T15:00:00","slug":"how-did-i-get-here","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-did-i-get-here\/","title":{"rendered":"How Did I Get Here?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Jay Stringer | Series: Unwanted | Licensed mental health counselor Jay Stringer talks about sexual brokenness and our culture&#8217;s growing obsession with sex. A crisis, like the threat of divorce or the loss of a job, often drives people to seek help when their behavior is exposed, but often what they are taught is merely lust management&#8211;how to bounce your eyes, or avoid tempting situations&#8211;which doesn&#8217;t get to the root issue. There is nothing random about a person&#8217;s unique brand of sexual brokenness, and it&#8217;s a counselor&#8217;s job to uncover where that attraction comes from, and how to deal with it.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tJourney into the Heart of Man Journey with Jay Stringer, a guided journey for men and women out of unwanted sexual behavior.\u00a0https:\/\/www.heartofmanjourney.com\/<br \/>\n \tLearn more about becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jay Stringer talks about sexual brokenness and our culture&#8217;s growing obsession with sex. A crisis often drives people to seek help when their behavior is exposed, but often what they are taught is merely lust management which doesn&#8217;t get to the root issue.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-15.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:33:16","filesize":"30.4M","filesize_raw":"31872607","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2844,2827,2088],"tags":[2989,6622],"podcast_series":[8274],"cwp_profile":[9535],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305021","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-pornography","category-repentance","category-romance-and-sex","tag-pornography","tag-unwanted","podcast_series-unwanted","cwp_profile-jay-stringer","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305021\/how-did-i-get-here","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305021\/how-did-i-get-here","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"XI7km0G29k\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-did-i-get-here\/\">How Did I Get Here?<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-did-i-get-here\/embed\/#?secret=XI7km0G29k\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;How Did I Get Here?&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"XI7km0G29k\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-15.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-15.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, May 15<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson, and I'm Bob Lepine.\n\nHave you ever stopped to think about what it is you\u2019re trying to satisfy when you give in to sexual temptation or sexual sin? We\u2019re going to talk about that today with Jay Stringer; stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us.\n\nWe\u2019re going to be dealing with a subject today that has to be in epidemic proportions, although as soon as I say that I think, \u201cThis has been an issue throughout the history of the world,\u201d so, is it epidemic in our day, or has it just been more hidden in past days?\n\nBut you see it as a pastor. You see the issue of lust showing up all the time.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 All the time. I would love to say that it\u2019s only in the people I\u2019m preaching to, but it\u2019s in me. Yes, it\u2019s something that I\u2019ve battled my whole life, and it\u2019s something you address every single hour, every single day in ministry when you\u2019re trying to help people.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And not just a male issue.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it\u2019s a female issue, and I believe it\u2019s a growing female issue, and it affects every single home, and so often it\u2019s in the dark, and no one knows, and it\u2019s a secret. That really affects how we\u2019re dealing with everything.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The reason I framed it as a conversation around lust is because we\u2019re trying to get to the root of what manifests itself in a wide variety of expressions, whether that\u2019s people looking at pornography or it\u2019s adultery or it\u2019s premarital sexual involvement or\u2014we could go on down the list; we don\u2019t need to. All of that can be traced back to a heart issue.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and I\u2019m excited today, because we\u2019re going to get to the root. So often people don\u2019t go there, and we get to go there today.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jay Stringer\u2019s going to help us do that. Jay, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you for having me!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jay is an author, he\u2019s a counselor, a therapist in Seattle, Washington, a graduate of the Seattle school.\u00a0 He\u2019s written a book called <em>Unwanted<\/em>, and the subtitle is <em>How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing<\/em>. This has become for you in clinical practice kind of the bull\u2019s-eye of what you\u2019re dealing with, right?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is. Yes. So, as a therapist, a lot of people were coming to see me, and they started talking about different struggles that they were having with pornography, infidelity\u2026 What I started recognizing was that most of the strategies and techniques that people had been given were primarily what I would just refer to as \u201clust management.\u201d So this was a lot of the bouncing of your eyes, trying to stop the flow of lust.\n\nSo what I started recognizing is that this really is not getting to the root of the issue, that a lot of times the clients that were coming to see me had been really using the same type of pornography from the time that they were 15, and now they were using the same exact search engine search when they were 38.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wow.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 So I started recognizing that, unless we really radically change this conversation, we\u2019re going to continue to consign people to a lifetime of futility with this issue, and I just don\u2019t think it needs to be that way.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You said the breakthrough for you in this issue was to ask the question, \u201cWhy?\u201d Not just to look at the behavior, but to say, \u201cWhat\u2019s really going on in my affections and in my heart?\u201d Where did that journey take you?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. This was near the end of seminary, grad school, and I wanted to start having a lot more integrity with regard to some of the struggles that I was having with pornography and definitely some of my sexual fantasies that had been with me since I was a teenager.\n\nWhen I was working through this with my therapist, one of the questions that she asked me was to \u201ctell me a little bit about the things that you\u2019re struggling with.\u201d One of the things that she highlighted was the role that I had come to play in my family, and highlighted some of the gifts that God has given to me with regard to, \u201cWhat does it mean for me as a man to see brokenness and heartache in people\u2019s lives, and then to offer something of myself to them in the midst of their heartache?\u201d She said, \u201cThat\u2019s why you want to be a therapist.\u201d\n\nAnd yet, what I wasn\u2019t kind of making the connection between is that was also what was getting woven into my sexual life as well.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, I don\u2019t understand the connection between wanting to be a helper and you looking at pornography.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. Share with us, what did that look like in your family? What happened?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, in my family, my dad was a minister, so\u2014I\u2019m only 35, but I know I\u2019m dating myself to say that this was before cell phones, before email. So when they would try to get ahold of my dad, they would first call the church office, and then if they couldn\u2019t get ahold of him there they would go and call our home phone.\n\nSo what happened is people within our congregation would leave voicemails, and this could be anything from a mental health crisis to\u2014one that I really remember was, an elder\u2019s wife called and said that \u201cmy husband just had an affair.\u201d\n\nSo what I remember feeling in those moments is\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, did you hear those messages?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 I heard those messages, yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 And could kind of tell that, \u201cEverything is not well. Everything that you\u2019re seeing on Sunday morning is not really what\u2019s going on in people\u2019s lives.\u201d That was really intriguing for me, as a young kid, to kind of recognize there\u2019s so much more to people\u2019s stories than you would ever see just on a Sunday morning.\n\nSo what would happen was my dad would go and attend to a lot of these crises, but then I would watch my mom\u2019s face become sad, at times angry, for my dad\u2019s involvement within the church life. So as a middle child and just someone that I think God has really made my heart sensitive to heartache and to brokenness, that was part of the way that I would engage my mom, to just say, \u201cCan I help out with the dishes? Can I do some vacuuming? Let\u2019s go shopping together.\u201d So that became part of the role that I played in my family, was to help soothe people in the midst of heartache.\n\nThere was a point in college where I was on Instant Messenger, and this person, random pop-up came through and said, basically, \u201cHi, do you want to start chatting?\u201d I didn\u2019t know anything about, you know, sexually explicit stuff on Instant Messenger at that point, and this person had sent me a photo, and it was really innocent, really beautiful, and I kind of bit, hook, line, and sinker.\n\nWithin a couple minutes she sent me another link to a pornography site. That was all around mother-oriented pornography. So there was something about that theme that something in my heart merged with, \u201cI want this.\u201d That was a really, really significant turning point for me with regard to getting latched onto pornography. I had seen it from time to time, but there was something about those themes that that was becoming latched on into my heart.\n\nSo what my therapist did many years later was to kind of help me to identify [that] some of the fantasies and some of the pornography searches actually had their origins further back than I would have ever conceived of.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, you\u2019re saying that how we get to indulging lust, whatever that looks like, is rooted in things that are not sexual at all?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 What I\u2019m saying is that one of the things that I needed to do was\u2014my whole life I had asked God to help me stop my lust, but what my therapist was really inviting me into is, \u201cHow do I actually invite God to help me understand why I\u2019m drawn to it in the first place?\u201d So that\u2019s, I really think, part of the task within sexual brokenness, is not to just try and stop your lust, but to really listen to it. Study, \u201cWhy is it that this particular fantasy is always the thing that gets me when I\u2019m on a business trip?\u201d or, \u201cWhy is it that whenever my spouse turns down intimacy I\u2019m drawn to pornography at this stage?\u201d\n\nSo, part of what I think God is inviting us into is to really be curious about how our sexual brokenness came to be, because when we\u2019re at the height of our sexual brokenness all that we can see is our shame and failure, which then sets up strategies and techniques to try and stop it.\n\nYou know, I think part of what God does is God approaches us with curiosity to say, \u201cHow did this come to be?\u201d Because part of what we all know is that the present sin is so often the door that opens up the wider work of the gospel to bring healing and transformation to our lives. So what I thought was this kind of random issue of pornography was actually inviting me back into a lot of the family wounds and emotional pain that I had never addressed, and they were showing up in my pornography use, but I had never gone back to actually heal some of the initial pain from that family system.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, you know there are some folks who are hearing this conversation and going, \u201cOkay, it sounds like Jay\u2019s saying you\u2019re not responsible for what you were doing when you were looking at stuff on the Internet when you were on Instant Messenger.\u201d That\u2019s not what you\u2019re saying, is it?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s not what I\u2019m saying. One of the things that I love about the Scripture is that they hold honor and honesty together, that we know that Abram, for instance, trafficked his wife. We know some of the most difficult things about the patriarchs and the kings of Israel because Scripture is always holding honor and honesty together.\n\nSo this process of kind of going back to some of the original pain is not about blaming your parents, but, like a good historian, you\u2019re trying to understand, \u201cHow did this story actually form, and how do we make sure that we don\u2019t repeat it in the future?\u201d\n\nOne of the things that I think we talk about too much within evangelical circles is that we usually think about sexual brokenness in terms of, \u201cIt\u2019s only an issue of lust.\u201d What I would say is if the river of unwanted sexual behavior is flowing, that\u2019s fed by a lot of different tributaries. That could be anger, that could be lust. So if we\u2019re only focusing on lust, we\u2019re actually missing so much of the other stuff that\u2019s at play with regard to our sexual brokenness.\n\nOne of the things that some of Dr. Patrick Carnes\u2014one of the things that he recognized was that 78 per cent of addicts report coming from homes that are very rigid, and 87 per cent report coming from families that are very disengaged. So, the reason why this is so important is because if you\u2019re growing up in a very rigid family (this is a lot of rules, lots of regulations, usually one parent is ruling with an iron fist), part of what you realize is that they\u2019re using their power in order to intimidate, and sometimes to invade, your life.\n\nSo, as a child, what do you do in the midst of being powered over, feeling like someone has complete authority? That\u2019s often the context where, when you begin to get bonded to pornography, part of the appeal to that is that \u201cnow I have this realm that\u2019s secretive, that no one else knows about, and I can actually get exactly what I want when I want it.\u201d You don\u2019t have that anywhere else in your life, so one of the initial things that happens within a rigid family is that there\u2019s anger that\u2019s brewing beneath the surface of that type of person.\n\nSo much later in life, whenever you\u2019re in the midst of someone else, like a boss, an employer, a spouse that looks like they have more power than you, one of the ways that you learned how to get through that as a child was actually to go to pornography, not just for lust, but, \u201cOh, here\u2019s this realm that I have unlimited power and I can get exactly what I want when I want it.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I mean, hearing that as parent scares you. It\u2019s like, \u201cHow in the world can I manage this precious balance, you know, that my son or daughter doesn\u2019t spin off into some addictive thing because of the way I\u2019m treating him?\u201d You know, I\u2019m a dad of three sons, so I\u2019m listening thinking there are parents going, \u201cOkay, how do I do this in a way that doesn\u2019t allow this to happen to my son or daughter?\u201d What would you say?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. What you\u2019re\u2014I mean, I think part of just even your heart to ask that question is so much of kind of the part two of that, which is, most parents are more disengaged when they realize something about that, and what happens within disengagement is that when you\u2019re going through something really difficult (maybe it could be a father or a mother that was really strict, you\u2019re going through bullying or some type of abuse at school), if you didn\u2019t have anyone that was there to hold you, to attune to you, to be able to say, \u201cHow are you? Your face looks different today,\u201d part of what you learn is that intimacy is not found within a family system, it\u2019s found outside of one.\n\nSo this is a lot of the initial seeds that begin to get formed with regard to lust, is that, \u201cI can\u2019t really trust close relationships or a family system to actually be the place where I can be known and loved in the midst of that,\u201d so I begin to look for things that are external to the family in order to provide something of that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I tend to think that the issues of lust that we\u2019re dealing with in our culture today are because we live in a hyper-sexualized culture. I mean, I remember talking with one of your professors and a mentor to you, Dan Allender, and I said, \u201cSo, sexual abuse\u2014\u201d because he\u2019s written on sexual abuse, \u201csexual abuse; what are the statistics?\u201d\n\nHe goes, \u201cWell, it depends on how you define sexual abuse.\u201d He said at one level, 100 per cent of people who live in America have been sexually abused.\n\nI said, \u201cWhat do you mean?\u201d\n\nHe said, \u201cHave you ever seen an ad on TV that\u2019s sexually exploitive?\u201d\n\nI go, \u201cSure, everybody has.\u201d\n\nHe goes, \u201cThat\u2019s my point. You\u2019ve been sexually abused.\u201d\n\nSo, this hyper-sexualized culture we live in\u2014I tend to think that\u2019s the problem. If we\u2019d just turn it down in the culture, it would turn down in our lives. But I hear you saying there are other factors, maybe deeper factors, than just our hyper-sexualized culture.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 Indeed. Yes. So, one of the things we found was that people who were the most significant users of pornography use had sexual abuse scores that were nearly 24 per cent higher than those who did not view pornography at all. So I think that\u2019s one thing that we need to be really careful about.\n\nPart of what gets all the attention is you see this 17-year-old, or you see this 40-year-old person who\u2019s struggling with sexual addiction, but you never actually go back to where was their sexual story first corrupted. Why this is so important is that if most of us are growing up in families that have some level of rigidity and disengagement, the first experiences of sexual abuse (whether that\u2019s someone introduces you to porn or someone that eventually molests you) is that they are not going to start with sexual exploitation.\n\nWhat they\u2019re going to do is they\u2019re going to say, \u201cHey, Jay, you have a really nice arm. Let\u2019s go play catch,\u201d or, \u201cLet\u2019s go and play this video game. I know that your parents don\u2019t really allow any type of entertainment, so let\u2019s just go play.\u201d\n\nSo what your body initially experiences is the sense of rest, and oxytocin, even, that when you\u2019re touched, when you\u2019re loved, and you\u2019re saying, \u201cThis is the best thing ever.\u201d But then as the abuse and the grooming process goes on, what your body begins to feel is some cortisol, some stress of, \u201cShould this be happening? Should this not be happening?\u201d\n\nBut then they introduce you to something like pornography or a part of their body that you\u2019ve never seen before, and the way that God has wired our brains is to actually feel excitement, to feel arousal. So then you\u2019re feeling some dopamine within your system, and what I want to underscore is this is a highly, highly chaotic cocktail that\u2019s getting mixed. You\u2019re feeling bonded to someone, but at the same time you\u2019re feeling stress, and then you\u2019re feeling arousal. What in the world are you supposed to do with that?\n\nSo what ends what happening much later in life, much to people\u2019s surprise, is that they don\u2019t feel sexually alive unless they\u2019re remixing that original cocktail. So then they find themselves on a business trip and someone notices, \u201cWow, you\u2019ve done a lot with your career.\u201d Then it becomes very sexual and you feel arousal.\n\nSo what they don\u2019t really recognize is that they\u2019re actually remixing some of the original trauma cocktail that was established for them in the sexual abuse, but they\u2019re only seeing it through the lens of, \u201cI\u2019m just a deeply broken sexual man that struggles with an addiction,\u201d rather than going back to say, \u201cWhere was your sexual story stolen from you?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re going to explore this subject in greater detail, but I just want to know, are you suggesting that if we can dig back, be the archeologist, find where that extension cord is plugged in, and where were we first broken, that we can get to a point in life where we are free from having to battle lust?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 What I\u2019m saying is that\u2014I think of Jesus\u2019s words around, \u201cBlessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.\u201d Many of us would say that we go to pornography, some type of an affair, for some version\u2014maybe a compromised, idolatrous version of comfort.\n\nSo part of what I would say back to you is, why are you outsourcing your comfort to something that brings greater shame to you? Why not go back to some of the formative experiences of your own heartache, where, as you begin to attend to these stories, something in your heart begins to break for that little boy or for that little girl in terms of what she was exposed to and the sexual story she got caught up in? Where there is grief, there will be change.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is kind of deep water, right? Don\u2019t you agree?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 We are swimming in the deep end, yes, no question about it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 But it\u2019s really good.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and what I\u2019m excited about as we keep talking is, okay, so you as you trace that back to the root, the next question is, \u201cOkay, why do I stay there if I\u2019ve found the root?\u201d and then, \u201cHow do I get out?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s where we need to go.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, and Jay, that\u2019s where you go in your book. The book is called <em>Unwanted: How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing<\/em>, and we have copies of the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center, so listeners who are interested can get a copy of the book. Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com and order, or call to order: 1-800-FLTODAY. Again, the title of the book, <em>Unwanted: How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing<\/em>. Order online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call to order at 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nPretty sober, pretty powerful conversation today with Jay Stringer, and David Robbins, who\u2019s the President of FamilyLife, is here with us. We got into some deep water, didn\u2019t we?\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, we are in the deep end, and I think it\u2019s really good for all of us to get into these deep waters and to process it. I think what\u2019s central to what Jay has been bringing us and asking the question, \u201cDo we believe God is distant and unattached, do we functionally live out life that way, or do we believe that truly He is nearby and involved?\u201d If we believe He is distant, we are left to deal with all of the issues we\u2019ve been talking about today that we each have in our lives, and they all show up in different ways. We\u2019re left to deal with those on our own.\n\nBut if He\u2019s near and involved, we\u2019re never facing this alone. God enters His people\u2019s struggles and leads us out of our issues! He restores us, he reconciles us. So it makes perfect sense that God would walk into our personal brokenness and backstories if we let Him in, and He will lead us out of it for our good\u2014for our families\u2019 good, for our personal good, and for the world, generation after generation.\n\nI just simply say, don\u2019t try to do this on your own.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0 Do what Jay did. Let God in to help understand why you\u2019re drawn to particular sin patterns\u2014why do you keep going back to them?\u2014and not just trying to stop it without the deeper understanding.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. And that means time in the Word, it means time in prayer, it means time with godly counselors who can help reveal the purposes and the will of God. That\u2019s good, David. Thank you for that.\n\nAgain, if listeners are interested in the book<em> Unwanted<\/em>, go to FamilyLifeToday.com to get a copy, or call us at 1-800-FLTODAY.\n\nNow, before we are done, I want to give you an update on the matching gift opportunity that\u2019s been made available to us here at FamilyLife during the month of May. This is pretty exciting. We had some friends who came along and said, \u201cWe want to match every donation you receive during the month of May, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $550,000 dollars.\u201d\n\nThey did this with the idea that as we head into the summer months we could head in in a good financial position, because summer months are usually months when we see a decline in donations.\n\nWell, in recent days, that matching gift has been increased.\u00a0 It\u2019s now up to a total of $645,000 dollars, which means we have more opportunity, which means we need <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners to help us take advantage of this. Anytime you make a donation this month, your donation will be matched dollar for dollar. If you become a monthly Legacy Partner in May and agree to make a donation each month of the next 12 months, every donation you make over that time will be matched dollar for dollar from this matching gift fund, until the funds are depleted.\n\nSo would you consider either a one-time gift or becoming a Legacy Partner? We\u2019ve had lots of new Legacy Partners join us this month, lots of people who have made donations. We still have a ways to go to take full advantage of this matching gift opportunity.\n\nIf you become a Legacy Partner this month, in addition to your donations being matched, we want to send you a gift card. This will enable you as a couple, or someone you know, to attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway with a conference registration fully paid for as our thank-you gift for your ongoing support of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\nAgain, it\u2019s our gift to you when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and become a new Legacy Partner, or when you call 1-800-FLTODAY to become a Legacy Partner. We hope to hear from you this month.\u00a0 Please pray that we\u2019d be able to take full advantage of this matching gift opportunity in May.\n\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\nWe hope you can join us again tomorrow. Jay Stringer\u2019s going to be here again, and we\u2019re going to talk about what is really going on in our hearts. What\u2019s the hunger that we\u2019re trying to satisfy when we give in to sexual temptation and sexual sin? We\u2019ll talk more about that tomorrow, and I hope you can join us for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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Stringer talks about sexual brokenness and our culture's growing obsession with sex. A crisis often drives people to seek help when their behavior is exposed, but often what they are taught is merely lust management which doesn't get to the root issue.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-15.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, May 15<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson, and I'm Bob Lepine.\n\nHave you ever stopped to think about what it is you\u2019re trying to satisfy when you give in to sexual temptation or sexual sin? We\u2019re going to talk about that today with Jay Stringer; stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us.\n\nWe\u2019re going to be dealing with a subject today that has to be in epidemic proportions, although as soon as I say that I think, \u201cThis has been an issue throughout the history of the world,\u201d so, is it epidemic in our day, or has it just been more hidden in past days?\n\nBut you see it as a pastor. You see the issue of lust showing up all the time.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 All the time. I would love to say that it\u2019s only in the people I\u2019m preaching to, but it\u2019s in me. Yes, it\u2019s something that I\u2019ve battled my whole life, and it\u2019s something you address every single hour, every single day in ministry when you\u2019re trying to help people.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And not just a male issue.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it\u2019s a female issue, and I believe it\u2019s a growing female issue, and it affects every single home, and so often it\u2019s in the dark, and no one knows, and it\u2019s a secret. That really affects how we\u2019re dealing with everything.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The reason I framed it as a conversation around lust is because we\u2019re trying to get to the root of what manifests itself in a wide variety of expressions, whether that\u2019s people looking at pornography or it\u2019s adultery or it\u2019s premarital sexual involvement or\u2014we could go on down the list; we don\u2019t need to. All of that can be traced back to a heart issue.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and I\u2019m excited today, because we\u2019re going to get to the root. So often people don\u2019t go there, and we get to go there today.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jay Stringer\u2019s going to help us do that. Jay, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you for having me!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jay is an author, he\u2019s a counselor, a therapist in Seattle, Washington, a graduate of the Seattle school.\u00a0 He\u2019s written a book called <em>Unwanted<\/em>, and the subtitle is <em>How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing<\/em>. This has become for you in clinical practice kind of the bull\u2019s-eye of what you\u2019re dealing with, right?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is. Yes. So, as a therapist, a lot of people were coming to see me, and they started talking about different struggles that they were having with pornography, infidelity\u2026 What I started recognizing was that most of the strategies and techniques that people had been given were primarily what I would just refer to as \u201clust management.\u201d So this was a lot of the bouncing of your eyes, trying to stop the flow of lust.\n\nSo what I started recognizing is that this really is not getting to the root of the issue, that a lot of times the clients that were coming to see me had been really using the same type of pornography from the time that they were 15, and now they were using the same exact search engine search when they were 38.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wow.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 So I started recognizing that, unless we really radically change this conversation, we\u2019re going to continue to consign people to a lifetime of futility with this issue, and I just don\u2019t think it needs to be that way.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You said the breakthrough for you in this issue was to ask the question, \u201cWhy?\u201d Not just to look at the behavior, but to say, \u201cWhat\u2019s really going on in my affections and in my heart?\u201d Where did that journey take you?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. This was near the end of seminary, grad school, and I wanted to start having a lot more integrity with regard to some of the struggles that I was having with pornography and definitely some of my sexual fantasies that had been with me since I was a teenager.\n\nWhen I was working through this with my therapist, one of the questions that she asked me was to \u201ctell me a little bit about the things that you\u2019re struggling with.\u201d One of the things that she highlighted was the role that I had come to play in my family, and highlighted some of the gifts that God has given to me with regard to, \u201cWhat does it mean for me as a man to see brokenness and heartache in people\u2019s lives, and then to offer something of myself to them in the midst of their heartache?\u201d She said, \u201cThat\u2019s why you want to be a therapist.\u201d\n\nAnd yet, what I wasn\u2019t kind of making the connection between is that was also what was getting woven into my sexual life as well.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, I don\u2019t understand the connection between wanting to be a helper and you looking at pornography.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. Share with us, what did that look like in your family? What happened?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, in my family, my dad was a minister, so\u2014I\u2019m only 35, but I know I\u2019m dating myself to say that this was before cell phones, before email. So when they would try to get ahold of my dad, they would first call the church office, and then if they couldn\u2019t get ahold of him there they would go and call our home phone.\n\nSo what happened is people within our congregation would leave voicemails, and this could be anything from a mental health crisis to\u2014one that I really remember was, an elder\u2019s wife called and said that \u201cmy husband just had an affair.\u201d\n\nSo what I remember feeling in those moments is\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, did you hear those messages?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 I heard those messages, yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 And could kind of tell that, \u201cEverything is not well. Everything that you\u2019re seeing on Sunday morning is not really what\u2019s going on in people\u2019s lives.\u201d That was really intriguing for me, as a young kid, to kind of recognize there\u2019s so much more to people\u2019s stories than you would ever see just on a Sunday morning.\n\nSo what would happen was my dad would go and attend to a lot of these crises, but then I would watch my mom\u2019s face become sad, at times angry, for my dad\u2019s involvement within the church life. So as a middle child and just someone that I think God has really made my heart sensitive to heartache and to brokenness, that was part of the way that I would engage my mom, to just say, \u201cCan I help out with the dishes? Can I do some vacuuming? Let\u2019s go shopping together.\u201d So that became part of the role that I played in my family, was to help soothe people in the midst of heartache.\n\nThere was a point in college where I was on Instant Messenger, and this person, random pop-up came through and said, basically, \u201cHi, do you want to start chatting?\u201d I didn\u2019t know anything about, you know, sexually explicit stuff on Instant Messenger at that point, and this person had sent me a photo, and it was really innocent, really beautiful, and I kind of bit, hook, line, and sinker.\n\nWithin a couple minutes she sent me another link to a pornography site. That was all around mother-oriented pornography. So there was something about that theme that something in my heart merged with, \u201cI want this.\u201d That was a really, really significant turning point for me with regard to getting latched onto pornography. I had seen it from time to time, but there was something about those themes that that was becoming latched on into my heart.\n\nSo what my therapist did many years later was to kind of help me to identify [that] some of the fantasies and some of the pornography searches actually had their origins further back than I would have ever conceived of.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, you\u2019re saying that how we get to indulging lust, whatever that looks like, is rooted in things that are not sexual at all?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 What I\u2019m saying is that one of the things that I needed to do was\u2014my whole life I had asked God to help me stop my lust, but what my therapist was really inviting me into is, \u201cHow do I actually invite God to help me understand why I\u2019m drawn to it in the first place?\u201d So that\u2019s, I really think, part of the task within sexual brokenness, is not to just try and stop your lust, but to really listen to it. Study, \u201cWhy is it that this particular fantasy is always the thing that gets me when I\u2019m on a business trip?\u201d or, \u201cWhy is it that whenever my spouse turns down intimacy I\u2019m drawn to pornography at this stage?\u201d\n\nSo, part of what I think God is inviting us into is to really be curious about how our sexual brokenness came to be, because when we\u2019re at the height of our sexual brokenness all that we can see is our shame and failure, which then sets up strategies and techniques to try and stop it.\n\nYou know, I think part of what God does is God approaches us with curiosity to say, \u201cHow did this come to be?\u201d Because part of what we all know is that the present sin is so often the door that opens up the wider work of the gospel to bring healing and transformation to our lives. So what I thought was this kind of random issue of pornography was actually inviting me back into a lot of the family wounds and emotional pain that I had never addressed, and they were showing up in my pornography use, but I had never gone back to actually heal some of the initial pain from that family system.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, you know there are some folks who are hearing this conversation and going, \u201cOkay, it sounds like Jay\u2019s saying you\u2019re not responsible for what you were doing when you were looking at stuff on the Internet when you were on Instant Messenger.\u201d That\u2019s not what you\u2019re saying, is it?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s not what I\u2019m saying. One of the things that I love about the Scripture is that they hold honor and honesty together, that we know that Abram, for instance, trafficked his wife. We know some of the most difficult things about the patriarchs and the kings of Israel because Scripture is always holding honor and honesty together.\n\nSo this process of kind of going back to some of the original pain is not about blaming your parents, but, like a good historian, you\u2019re trying to understand, \u201cHow did this story actually form, and how do we make sure that we don\u2019t repeat it in the future?\u201d\n\nOne of the things that I think we talk about too much within evangelical circles is that we usually think about sexual brokenness in terms of, \u201cIt\u2019s only an issue of lust.\u201d What I would say is if the river of unwanted sexual behavior is flowing, that\u2019s fed by a lot of different tributaries. That could be anger, that could be lust. So if we\u2019re only focusing on lust, we\u2019re actually missing so much of the other stuff that\u2019s at play with regard to our sexual brokenness.\n\nOne of the things that some of Dr. Patrick Carnes\u2014one of the things that he recognized was that 78 per cent of addicts report coming from homes that are very rigid, and 87 per cent report coming from families that are very disengaged. So, the reason why this is so important is because if you\u2019re growing up in a very rigid family (this is a lot of rules, lots of regulations, usually one parent is ruling with an iron fist), part of what you realize is that they\u2019re using their power in order to intimidate, and sometimes to invade, your life.\n\nSo, as a child, what do you do in the midst of being powered over, feeling like someone has complete authority? That\u2019s often the context where, when you begin to get bonded to pornography, part of the appeal to that is that \u201cnow I have this realm that\u2019s secretive, that no one else knows about, and I can actually get exactly what I want when I want it.\u201d You don\u2019t have that anywhere else in your life, so one of the initial things that happens within a rigid family is that there\u2019s anger that\u2019s brewing beneath the surface of that type of person.\n\nSo much later in life, whenever you\u2019re in the midst of someone else, like a boss, an employer, a spouse that looks like they have more power than you, one of the ways that you learned how to get through that as a child was actually to go to pornography, not just for lust, but, \u201cOh, here\u2019s this realm that I have unlimited power and I can get exactly what I want when I want it.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I mean, hearing that as parent scares you. It\u2019s like, \u201cHow in the world can I manage this precious balance, you know, that my son or daughter doesn\u2019t spin off into some addictive thing because of the way I\u2019m treating him?\u201d You know, I\u2019m a dad of three sons, so I\u2019m listening thinking there are parents going, \u201cOkay, how do I do this in a way that doesn\u2019t allow this to happen to my son or daughter?\u201d What would you say?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. What you\u2019re\u2014I mean, I think part of just even your heart to ask that question is so much of kind of the part two of that, which is, most parents are more disengaged when they realize something about that, and what happens within disengagement is that when you\u2019re going through something really difficult (maybe it could be a father or a mother that was really strict, you\u2019re going through bullying or some type of abuse at school), if you didn\u2019t have anyone that was there to hold you, to attune to you, to be able to say, \u201cHow are you? Your face looks different today,\u201d part of what you learn is that intimacy is not found within a family system, it\u2019s found outside of one.\n\nSo this is a lot of the initial seeds that begin to get formed with regard to lust, is that, \u201cI can\u2019t really trust close relationships or a family system to actually be the place where I can be known and loved in the midst of that,\u201d so I begin to look for things that are external to the family in order to provide something of that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I tend to think that the issues of lust that we\u2019re dealing with in our culture today are because we live in a hyper-sexualized culture. I mean, I remember talking with one of your professors and a mentor to you, Dan Allender, and I said, \u201cSo, sexual abuse\u2014\u201d because he\u2019s written on sexual abuse, \u201csexual abuse; what are the statistics?\u201d\n\nHe goes, \u201cWell, it depends on how you define sexual abuse.\u201d He said at one level, 100 per cent of people who live in America have been sexually abused.\n\nI said, \u201cWhat do you mean?\u201d\n\nHe said, \u201cHave you ever seen an ad on TV that\u2019s sexually exploitive?\u201d\n\nI go, \u201cSure, everybody has.\u201d\n\nHe goes, \u201cThat\u2019s my point. You\u2019ve been sexually abused.\u201d\n\nSo, this hyper-sexualized culture we live in\u2014I tend to think that\u2019s the problem. If we\u2019d just turn it down in the culture, it would turn down in our lives. But I hear you saying there are other factors, maybe deeper factors, than just our hyper-sexualized culture.\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 Indeed. Yes. So, one of the things we found was that people who were the most significant users of pornography use had sexual abuse scores that were nearly 24 per cent higher than those who did not view pornography at all. So I think that\u2019s one thing that we need to be really careful about.\n\nPart of what gets all the attention is you see this 17-year-old, or you see this 40-year-old person who\u2019s struggling with sexual addiction, but you never actually go back to where was their sexual story first corrupted. Why this is so important is that if most of us are growing up in families that have some level of rigidity and disengagement, the first experiences of sexual abuse (whether that\u2019s someone introduces you to porn or someone that eventually molests you) is that they are not going to start with sexual exploitation.\n\nWhat they\u2019re going to do is they\u2019re going to say, \u201cHey, Jay, you have a really nice arm. Let\u2019s go play catch,\u201d or, \u201cLet\u2019s go and play this video game. I know that your parents don\u2019t really allow any type of entertainment, so let\u2019s just go play.\u201d\n\nSo what your body initially experiences is the sense of rest, and oxytocin, even, that when you\u2019re touched, when you\u2019re loved, and you\u2019re saying, \u201cThis is the best thing ever.\u201d But then as the abuse and the grooming process goes on, what your body begins to feel is some cortisol, some stress of, \u201cShould this be happening? Should this not be happening?\u201d\n\nBut then they introduce you to something like pornography or a part of their body that you\u2019ve never seen before, and the way that God has wired our brains is to actually feel excitement, to feel arousal. So then you\u2019re feeling some dopamine within your system, and what I want to underscore is this is a highly, highly chaotic cocktail that\u2019s getting mixed. You\u2019re feeling bonded to someone, but at the same time you\u2019re feeling stress, and then you\u2019re feeling arousal. What in the world are you supposed to do with that?\n\nSo what ends what happening much later in life, much to people\u2019s surprise, is that they don\u2019t feel sexually alive unless they\u2019re remixing that original cocktail. So then they find themselves on a business trip and someone notices, \u201cWow, you\u2019ve done a lot with your career.\u201d Then it becomes very sexual and you feel arousal.\n\nSo what they don\u2019t really recognize is that they\u2019re actually remixing some of the original trauma cocktail that was established for them in the sexual abuse, but they\u2019re only seeing it through the lens of, \u201cI\u2019m just a deeply broken sexual man that struggles with an addiction,\u201d rather than going back to say, \u201cWhere was your sexual story stolen from you?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re going to explore this subject in greater detail, but I just want to know, are you suggesting that if we can dig back, be the archeologist, find where that extension cord is plugged in, and where were we first broken, that we can get to a point in life where we are free from having to battle lust?\n\n<strong>Jay:<\/strong>\u00a0 What I\u2019m saying is that\u2014I think of Jesus\u2019s words around, \u201cBlessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.\u201d Many of us would say that we go to pornography, some type of an affair, for some version\u2014maybe a compromised, idolatrous version of comfort.\n\nSo part of what I would say back to you is, why are you outsourcing your comfort to something that brings greater shame to you? Why not go back to some of the formative experiences of your own heartache, where, as you begin to attend to these stories, something in your heart begins to break for that little boy or for that little girl in terms of what she was exposed to and the sexual story she got caught up in? Where there is grief, there will be change.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is kind of deep water, right? Don\u2019t you agree?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 We are swimming in the deep end, yes, no question about it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 But it\u2019s really good.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and what I\u2019m excited about as we keep talking is, okay, so you as you trace that back to the root, the next question is, \u201cOkay, why do I stay there if I\u2019ve found the root?\u201d and then, \u201cHow do I get out?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s where we need to go.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, and Jay, that\u2019s where you go in your book. The book is called <em>Unwanted: How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing<\/em>, and we have copies of the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center, so listeners who are interested can get a copy of the book. Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com and order, or call to order: 1-800-FLTODAY. Again, the title of the book, <em>Unwanted: How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing<\/em>. Order online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call to order at 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nPretty sober, pretty powerful conversation today with Jay Stringer, and David Robbins, who\u2019s the President of FamilyLife, is here with us. We got into some deep water, didn\u2019t we?\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, we are in the deep end, and I think it\u2019s really good for all of us to get into these deep waters and to process it. I think what\u2019s central to what Jay has been bringing us and asking the question, \u201cDo we believe God is distant and unattached, do we functionally live out life that way, or do we believe that truly He is nearby and involved?\u201d If we believe He is distant, we are left to deal with all of the issues we\u2019ve been talking about today that we each have in our lives, and they all show up in different ways. We\u2019re left to deal with those on our own.\n\nBut if He\u2019s near and involved, we\u2019re never facing this alone. God enters His people\u2019s struggles and leads us out of our issues! He restores us, he reconciles us. So it makes perfect sense that God would walk into our personal brokenness and backstories if we let Him in, and He will lead us out of it for our good\u2014for our families\u2019 good, for our personal good, and for the world, generation after generation.\n\nI just simply say, don\u2019t try to do this on your own.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0 Do what Jay did. Let God in to help understand why you\u2019re drawn to particular sin patterns\u2014why do you keep going back to them?\u2014and not just trying to stop it without the deeper understanding.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. And that means time in the Word, it means time in prayer, it means time with godly counselors who can help reveal the purposes and the will of God. That\u2019s good, David. Thank you for that.\n\nAgain, if listeners are interested in the book<em> Unwanted<\/em>, go to FamilyLifeToday.com to get a copy, or call us at 1-800-FLTODAY.\n\nNow, before we are done, I want to give you an update on the matching gift opportunity that\u2019s been made available to us here at FamilyLife during the month of May. This is pretty exciting. We had some friends who came along and said, \u201cWe want to match every donation you receive during the month of May, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $550,000 dollars.\u201d\n\nThey did this with the idea that as we head into the summer months we could head in in a good financial position, because summer months are usually months when we see a decline in donations.\n\nWell, in recent days, that matching gift has been increased.\u00a0 It\u2019s now up to a total of $645,000 dollars, which means we have more opportunity, which means we need <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners to help us take advantage of this. Anytime you make a donation this month, your donation will be matched dollar for dollar. If you become a monthly Legacy Partner in May and agree to make a donation each month of the next 12 months, every donation you make over that time will be matched dollar for dollar from this matching gift fund, until the funds are depleted.\n\nSo would you consider either a one-time gift or becoming a Legacy Partner? We\u2019ve had lots of new Legacy Partners join us this month, lots of people who have made donations. We still have a ways to go to take full advantage of this matching gift opportunity.\n\nIf you become a Legacy Partner this month, in addition to your donations being matched, we want to send you a gift card. This will enable you as a couple, or someone you know, to attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway with a conference registration fully paid for as our thank-you gift for your ongoing support of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\nAgain, it\u2019s our gift to you when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and become a new Legacy Partner, or when you call 1-800-FLTODAY to become a Legacy Partner. We hope to hear from you this month.\u00a0 Please pray that we\u2019d be able to take full advantage of this matching gift opportunity in May.\n\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\nWe hope you can join us again tomorrow. Jay Stringer\u2019s going to be here again, and we\u2019re going to talk about what is really going on in our hearts. What\u2019s the hunger that we\u2019re trying to satisfy when we give in to sexual temptation and sexual sin? We\u2019ll talk more about that tomorrow, and I hope you can join us for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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