{"id":305013,"date":"2019-05-13T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-05-13T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/hope-and-help-from-the-trenches\/"},"modified":"2019-05-13T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2019-05-13T15:00:00","slug":"hope-and-help-from-the-trenches","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/hope-and-help-from-the-trenches\/","title":{"rendered":"Hope and Help From the Trenches"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Mike Berry | Series: Confessions of an Adoptive Parent | Author Mike Berry, a husband and father of eight adopted children, tells what led him and his wife to pursue adoption and foster parenting. When they first started their journey they didn&#8217;t understand childhood trauma, but now they do. Berry encourages couples to adopt if they feel led, but warns them that at some point there will likely be a moment when they feel they are running into a wall. He believes it&#8217;s critical for them to understand that kids in chronic trauma are functioning in survival mode, and don&#8217;t always know why they act the way they do.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tConfessionsofanAdoptiveParent.com<br \/>\n \tLearn more about becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Mike Berry tells what led him and his wife to pursue adoption and foster parenting. Berry encourages couples to adopt if they feel led, but warns them that at some point they will feel like they are running into a wall.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-13.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:58","filesize":"25.54M","filesize_raw":"26783562","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2818,2839,2860],"tags":[2712],"podcast_series":[8273],"cwp_profile":[9533],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305013","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-adoption-and-orphans","category-attitude-problems","category-hardship-and-suffering","tag-adoption","podcast_series-confessions-of-an-adoptive-parent","cwp_profile-mike-berry","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305013\/hope-and-help-from-the-trenches","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305013\/hope-and-help-from-the-trenches","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"3QFeDTKuN8\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/hope-and-help-from-the-trenches\/\">Hope and Help From the Trenches<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/hope-and-help-from-the-trenches\/embed\/#?secret=3QFeDTKuN8\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Hope and Help From the Trenches&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"3QFeDTKuN8\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-13.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-13.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Mike Berry says when he and his wife, Kristin, decided they were going to adopt children, they had no idea what they were getting into.\n\n<strong>Mike<\/strong>: I would say Kristin had a more realistic perspective than I did. What we didn't have was\u2013\u2013we had no trauma knowledge\u2013\u2013in terms of some of the trauma history our kids went through. How trauma changes the brain and how it dictates behavior\u2013\u2013we had no clue. I was the person\u2013\u2013I immediately went to the \u201csuper-hero\u201d complex\u2013\u2013the rescuer. Like, \u201cwe're going to do this!\u201d\n\nNow I am the super-hero that is going to swoop down and pull this child out of the dark, awful place and I'm going to be the hero\u2013I'm going to walk into our church and everyone's going to applaud for me. I know, it's ridiculous\u2013\u2013and a lot of people struggle with that.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, May 13. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson, and I'm Bob Lepine.\n\nAdoption is a wonderful thing. It's also a very challenging thing, as we'll hear about today from Mike Berry. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, we've talked a lot about adoption over the years on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, but I don't think I've ever met anybody\u2013\u2013much less interviewed somebody\u2013\u2013who adopted a 24 year old. That's a pretty unique situation, but that's what we've got going for us today.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes. It really makes you want to hear that story behind the story. That's got to be a very unique person, which is who we have in the studio today.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Mike Berry joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Mike, welcome to the program.\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Thanks you. Thanks for having me.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Mike is an author, a speaker, a blogger, and has written a book called, <em>Confessions of an Adoptive Parent<\/em>. You and your wife are parents to, how many?\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>\u00a0Eight children.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Eight kids\u2013\u2013including the oldest, who you adopted at 24.\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Yes, that's true.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay, hold onto that story [Laughter] because we want to start at the beginning with all of this. Where did your desire and your passion for adoption come from?\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Well, going all the way back to the beginning of the story\u2013\u2013or beginning of our story\u2013\u2013the passion came from my wife. She grew up in a family that was an adoptive family. Her grandfather was in the foster care system\u2013\u2013aged out of the foster care system\u2013\u2013so she grew up with storylines of foster care adoption. As I like to say, \u201cHer heart was tuned to adoption and foster care.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember you said earlier in your book that when you were dating, she told you, \u201cI do not want to have biological children; I want to adopt.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This was on the checklist, like if you're not game for this, we're done.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>This was sitting on our college campus\u2013\u2013\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow!\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> \u2013\u2013in front of our library.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did you feel about that? You're a young man\u2013\u2013what were your thoughts?\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>I resisted. It wasn't because I was against adoption\u2013\u2013it was just because I didn't grow up with it. It wasn't a storyline in my family growing up and I just didn't really know anybody who had done this; you know?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Mike, most of the people I've talked to over the years would say, \u201cWe wanted adoption to be part of our story.\u201d Your wife was saying, \u201cI want it to be the whole story.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2013\u2013which is pretty unusual.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> It is, yes\u2013\u2013very much so\u2013\u2013and that was also part of it. We went to a small Christian college, and everybody is getting married. It was kind of like\u2013\u2013this is the format\u2013\u2013\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The \u201cMRS Degree\u201d.\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> The \u201cMRS Degree.\u201d [Laughter] So, everybody's getting that\u2013\u2013everybody's getting married\u2013\u2013everybody's having children and then they're going off and working in the church. You're doing ministry. But then I have this total foreign idea thrown at me\u2013\u2013that we're going to adopt all of our kids\u2013\u2013it just wasn't what I grew up with. Naturally, I pushed back\u2013\u2013I resisted.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>How did she win you over? What happened? Did she win you over? Did God win you over?\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Typically, my wife is very vocal. We talk a lot. We're very vocal\u2013\u2013we're communicators\u2013\u2013so, we talk. One of the things she did\u2013\u2013which I thought was really interesting\u2013\u2013was that she didn't say anything else. It just didn't come up again. It was still very much on her heart, but she could tell that I was going through a little bit of a battle. I was wrestling through some things\u2013\u2013there were a lot of other things going on too\u2013\u2013just a lot of insecurities I was working through.\n\nShe had somebody say to her, \u201cYou know what? You need to let this go for a while. You need to\u2013\u2013if it's something that's supposed to happen\u2013\u2013then you need to trust that God's going to make that happen. You need to pray about that; then just pray for him.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Don't you be the person that talks him into this.\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Yes. In all of our years of working with families, we have often coached couples, \u201cListen, you cannot drag somebody into this journey\u2013\u2013because it's a calling\u2013\u2013and when that happens, you're not entering this journey with the right intentions and the right means.\u201d So, she did that. She just let it go. What was interesting is that there were moments\u2013\u2013in the three to five years that followed\u2013\u2013where people would come into my life.\n\nOne of those in particular was a guy who started off adopting before he had children biologically. Moments like that happened. When we adopted our first-born daughter, Jaala, my heart was changed\u2013\u2013and the way I say it in the book is that God changed my heart\u2013\u2013that's really what it was.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Before we leave that first topic\u2013\u2013I think it's important for people to consider this\u2013\u2013if you're trying to change your spouse, whether it's adoption\u2013\u2013or you name it, trust God. State your heart, share your heart.\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Then let it go, because the harder you push\u2013\u2013again, in your situation it's adoption\u2013\u2013but really in any situation\u2013\u2013I\u2019m saying this so that my wife will hear me. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>She's sitting close to you\u2013\u2013she's within reach of you. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you see that look I gave her?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You're saying the \u201cbadger\u201d strategy\u2013\u2013is not a good strategy.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It doesn't work for me.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>It never worked for me.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I am good at that. I am good at getting in there\u2013\u2013\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2013\u2013and badgering?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>She is good.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You're good at it\u2013\u2013but it doesn't work.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I've come to realize that it really does not work.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Your story is a beautiful one of how your wife did honestly share\u2013\u2013\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It's almost like she laid it down and said, \u201cGod, this is your business.\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That's hard to do\u2013\u2013it's hard to let it go.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And she did\u2013\u2013even that story of that gentleman is like, \u201clook at what God is doing. I've got this.\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Was her reticence to have bio kids\u2013\u2013was it, \u201dI don't want to get pregnant. I don't want the pain\u201d\u2013\u2013or was it philosophically-driven, like, \u201cWe shouldn't have kids\u2013\u2013there are so many kids who need a home\u201d?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Yes; yes\u2013\u2013that was the driving factor right there. She saw what her parents went through to bring her youngest brother home. She remembered the stories that her grandfather would tell\u2026as he grew up\u2013\u2013this was in the \u201840s, I think\u2013\u2013around that time as he was growing up in the foster care system\u2013\u2013so there were zero resources back then. Some of the heartache he went through\u2013\u2013some of the struggles he went through\u2013\n\nKristin has one of the biggest hearts for justice on planet earth. Way back then, she hears those stories, and it's like, \u201cThat's it! Right there. There are so many children who are in need\u2013\u2013that's what our focus is.\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Along the way\u2013\u2013in your marriage journey\u2013\u2013have there been moments when she's seen a pregnant woman and just thought, \u201cMaybe once?\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>We did find out we were pregnant in 2011. Our youngest son was still in foster care, and he was soon to be adopted. It was one of the moments where we both talked about it and decided let's see what happens. We ended up miscarrying\u2013\u2013which was really painful\u2013\u2013but I remember going through that and we realized that maybe this is just confirmation that what we have before us is what our focus is.\n\nThat was hard, because we still were excited, we went through all of that emotion, and then it didn't happen.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I want to go all the way back to the engagement. You were clearly in love with this woman. You knew this is the woman you wanted to marry\u2013\u2013but you also knew, \u201cThis is a decision that I'm making\u2013\u2013that I'll never have bio kids.\u201d Were there second thoughts? Misgivings? Did you walk closer to the altar and go, \u201cWait. Am I going to be able to live with this?\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>I don't know if it was a situation I was second guessing or feeling like, \u201cAh, maybe this isn't a good choice\u201d, but I do\u2013\u2013there were moments where I felt that something was missing. I don't even think I could articulate back then that this is what it was. Now I look back on that and I wouldn't even say that I was fully committed to that. It's one of those moments where you, if this makes sense, that you're on this journey and you feel like, \u201cI love this, but I feel so distant from it.\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nThen, all along the way, God was changing my heart. What I often tell people is that adoption\u2013\u2013foster care\u2013\u2013this journey\u2013\u2013it's broken me from some <em>serious<\/em> selfishness. As I look way, way back in those engagement days, I was a horribly self-centered person. That was a process I had to work through. I mean, we all have to work through that\u2013\u2013human beings have to work through that\u2013\u2013and we still struggle with that.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I was going to say that you're not alone in this.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann<\/strong>: Which is true, even for bio kids. God works through that and tears out our selfish-ness\u2013\u2013tries to. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>It was just like a destroying\u2013\u2013just destroying me. I can't even say right now that I wish we would have\u2013\u2013because I'm so glad that we're on the journey we're on. I could not have written a better story. That's why I'm glad the pen was taken out of my hands because the story <em>I<\/em> would have wanted to write\u2013\u2013not the story that I'm living\u2013\u2013I'd much rather live the story that I'm living.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It's interesting\u2013\u2013if you haven't read your book or know your story, you could actually hear you right now and think, \u201cOh, this must be an unbelievable, beautiful family\u2013\u2013with all these wonderful days after days with all these kids. [Laughter]\n\nEarly in the book you find out\u2013\u2013I'm going it read this\u2013\u2013\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Yes. Go for it!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2013\u2013it says, \u201cWe've been to some of the darkest places ever, including\u201d\u2013\u2013here's just a list and I'm sure it's triple this but\u2013\u2013\n\n\u201cconstant rejection from a child that we would move mountains to love and serve, another child wanting to end her life at just 12 years old, a child who routinely emotionally and physically attacks our family, multiple run-ins with police with one of our kids, judgmental stares, whispers and glares from teachers, coaches, neighbors, and extended family. Feeling that we messed up, missed our calling, or failed as parents because we can't stop our children from making horrible choices.\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Yes. All true.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I'm guessing before you adopted, you never imagined that would be the list you'd write someday.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you have the fairy tale, happily ever after\u2013\u2013these children will be so grateful that we've stepped in and adopted them?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike<\/strong>: Oh, absolutely; yes. I'd say Kristin had a more realistic perspective than I did. What we didn't have was\u2013\u2013we had no trauma knowledge, in terms of some of the trauma history our kids went through\u2013\u2013how trauma changes the brain and how it dictates behavior\u2013\u2013we had <em>no<\/em> clue what any of that looked like.\n\nI was the person\u2013\u2013I immediately\u2013\u2013this is really out of that self-centeredness that I really struggled with\u2013\u2013I immediately went to that super-hero complex\u2013\u2013the rescuer. Like, \u201cWe're going to do this and now I am the super-hero that is going to swoop down and pull this child out of this dark, awful place and I'm going to be the hero\u2013\u2013I'm going to walk into our church and everyone's going to applaud for me. [Laughter]\n\nI know, it's ridiculous, but that's\u2013\u2013a lot of people struggle with that.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u00a0I was going to ask, do a lot of people walk into this with those thoughts?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Totally. Often people message us or walk up to us after live events and they'll say things and you can immediately see that, \u201cOkay. You're going to hit a brick wall.\u201d\u00a0 Like, do\u2013\u2013if you're called to do this, do this. This is a calling. There's no question.\n\nBut there will be a moment when you find yourself running into a wall because you were so focused on what we like to call the \u201cHollywood perspective\u201d\u2013\u2013you know, Angelina Jolie jumps on a Learjet and flies to Cambodia. That would have been awesome if I had a Learjet at my disposal\u2013\u2013I would have flown somewhere to bring a child home, but that's not reality for most of us. So, people get that idea that this is what it's going to look like.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nThe other thing that people have the misconception over is that the way I grew up\u2013\u2013the traditional methods that my parents used. In my household and in my wife's household, if our parents said, \u201cNo\u201d, that was the end. No meant no. You could challenge it, but then, there's going to be problems; right? But those traditional methods don't work with kiddos who have come from traumatic places, who've been through significant abuse, neglect, gone through all of these things that we can't even imagine.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I talked to a friend who had adopted two boys out of foster care. When they got them, the boys were 4 and 6 years old. They already had bio kids and he had experienced his bio kids lying to him and he knew pretty well how to deal with a lying child; right?\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> He knew that you could talk to them and pretty soon the cracks in their story will reveal and their heart will get soft and they'll confess and you can have these healing moments. He said and then I get these two kids who have learned as a life-coping mechanism, at age 4, the way you survive is by lying with impunity\u2013\u2013with not conscience seared at all. And he said that as a parent I have no idea what to do in this situation. He said, \u201cI was stymied with this and wondering how do you make this work?\u201d\n\nThis is the kind of reality you've dealt with, not only with lying, but all kinds of issues; right?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Oh, yes. Yes, you have to go into this journey understanding that children who have gone through chronic trauma, starvation, neglect, abuse, witness domestic violence\u2013\u2013the list goes on and on. They are functioning in survival mode. If our brain stem exists to help us survive, like we do things without thinking\u2013\u2013breathing, heartbeat, movement\u2013\u2013our amygdala is the alarm system in our brain. Our pre-frontal cortex is the reasoning and logic and self-control. If something happens, my amygdala pops, an alarm goes off, then it eventually calms down; right?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nBut in a child who has gone through chronic abuse and neglect and has been through chronic trauma\u2013\u2013that amygdala stays \u201cpopped\u201d and they're functioning out of brain stem. You can't look at a child in that situation and say, \u201cWhat\u2019s wrong with you?\u201d or, \u201cWhy did you?\u201d or \u201cHow could you?\u201d because they simply can't answer that\u2013\u2013they don't know. They're working in survival mode.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>One of the things you say in the book is that you had to learn how to win your child's heart. What does that mean and what did that look like?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike<\/strong>: The way that I grew up\u2013\u2013it was a very vocal household\u2013\u2013Dad always had the last word. When I stepped into parenting, I kind of had that mentality like, \u201cWhat I say is final and there's no pushing back. What I say goes.\u201d I prided myself on winning the argument, but all the while, I'm losing their heart. So, I'm losing this ability\u2013\u2013this opportunity\u2013\u2013to connect with them on a deeper level, which often times parents fall into because they see things like disagreements or arguments or those tense moments\n\nwith your kids\u2013\u2013they see those as \u201cme versus you\u201d.\n\nThere are still boundaries\u2013\u2013there are still guidelines and household rules\u2013\u2013but at the same time, we have this opportunity to connect with our kids and enter into conversations with them, to really learn what they're thinking\u2013\u2013especially as they grow into the teen years. Like, \u201cWhy do you feel so strongly about this?\u201d Or maybe a situation where you could ask, \u201cWhy did you do that? What were you thinking?\u201d\u2013\u2013and give them permission to speak into that. The boundaries still stay in place, but you're building a bridge, instead of creating a wall\u2013\u2013and that's key.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I mentioned as we started today that you're the only guy I ever met who adopted a 24 year old. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>There's not many of us.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Before we get too far along here, tell us that story.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>That's always one of the biggest questions we get. Like, \u201cWhat in the world?\u201d Most people don't realize you can adopt adults\u2013\u2013you can adopt any adult\u2013\u2013there's really no state-by-state regulations. As soon as I adopted her, I had lots of people saying, \u201cWill you adopt me?\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter] I had those requests. It got really weird, really quick.\n\nRachel, who is our oldest child\u2013\u2013as a freshman in high school, we moved to Indiana to become youth pastors and she was in our youth group. She was in a youth group in a suburban area and we connected with her because she was very standoffish. She wasn't a Type A personality.\n\nKristin really began mentoring her from her freshman year on. Her mother passed away 2 weeks after her high school graduation, so she moved in with us in the summer of 2004. We moved her into college that fall, and she just remained a part of our family.\n\nThen you fast forward to 2011 or 2012, she showed one July afternoon to our house and we're just having a conversation and she looks at us and she says, \u201cHey, by the way, I know what I want for Christmas this year.\u201d Which was, \u201cOkay\u2013\u2013that's early, but let's talk.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> She said, \u201cI want to be adopted.\u201d We looked at her and said, \u201cRachel, you've always been a part of our family.\u201d She said, \u201cI know, but I want the paper that says\u2013\u2013I want to make this official.\u201d We said, \u201cIf that's want you want, then absolutely.\u201d So we went to our county courthouse and finalized her adoption. It was really cool. She was 24 at the time.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How many kids did you have at that point?\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> At that point, we had seven.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So she's the last one.\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> She\u2019s eighth. Yes, she's the eighth.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What did she really want?\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> You know, she\u2013\u2013permanency. Her biological father, biological mother\u2013\u2013both had passed on. She has a biological brother who she's still connected to, but I think that all of us want to belong somewhere\u2013\u2013all of us want to be able to say, \u201cThat's home.\u201d And you picture the child, the eight-year-old\u2013\u2013the nine-year-old, who's just longing for that forever home. It really breaks your heart because you realize, \u201cI don't know what that's like.\u201d\n\nI <em>always<\/em> had my home\u2013\u2013and I still do to this day. I could call my mom and dad and go home at any point. But to think about that in a child\u2013\u201311-year-old, a 12-year-old\u2013\u2013it's like, I don't want a Nintendo, I don't want an iPhone\u2014I want a mom and dad. That breaks your heart right there.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, reading this book, I kept thinking\u2013\u2013anybody who's thinking about adoption\u2013\u2013they ought to read this first. This is kind of that cold slap in the face that just goes, [Laughter] \u201cLet's just make sure you know what you're getting into\u201d\u2013\u2013and we're advocates here. We think adoption\u2019s a good thing\u2013\u2013we're for it. We think people should go into it, but I've run into listeners of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> who've said to me, \u201cYou guys need to tell the whole story. Don't just paint the romantic picture\u2013\u2013but tell the whole story\u2013\u2013because it's hard.\u201d\n\nSometimes you get yourself into stuff that you go, \u201cMan, can we even survive this?\u201d\u00a0 The list you read, Dave\u2013\u2013I mean\u2013\u2013that's a pretty powerful list.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Honestly\u2013\u2013you know better than anyone in this room, Mike\u2013\u2013that's just a little bit of the list. If you keep reading, that book tells you the truth. <em>Confessions <\/em>is real. I'm sitting here, just moved by the heart of God, in you.\n\nPaul says\u2013\u2013the apostle Paul, in Ephesians 1:5 says, \u201cWe are adopted, predestined to adoption as sons and daughters to the King.\u201d So I feel like I'm looking at\u2026the picture\u2013\u2013on a human level\u2013\u2013of God's heart. You've got the heart of God and I know it's hard and we're rebellious kids to our heavenly Father, but, way to go! It really is a calling from God and you're modeling to the world\u2013\u2013this is the heart of the Father for us as rebellious children\u2013\u2013and it's a beautiful, beautiful picture of the heart of God.\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We've got copies of the book Mike has written. It's called, <em>Confessions of an Adoptive Parent<\/em>\u2013\u2013<em>Hope and Help from the Trenches of Foster Care and Adoption<\/em>. You can order copies when you go online on FamilyLifeToday.com\u2013\u2013or call, if you'd like to request the book. Our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website, FamilyLifeToday.com\u2013\u2013or call to get a copy of <em>Confessions of an Adoptive Parent<\/em>,\n\n1-800-358-6329. That's 1-800, \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nYou know, I keep thinking back today to what Dennis Rainey called, \u201cthe prayer of the helpless parent\u201d\u2013\u2013which is that prayer that says, \u201cHelp!\u201d We're all in a position of dependence, whether we're dealing with adopted kids or bio kids and David Robbins, the President of FamilyLife\u00ae is here. That's a good place for us to be; isn't it?\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> I think a lot of times it's the place God purposely puts us, where we are dependent on Him. The whole conversation today reminds me of the power of trusting God for the values that He's put in our hearts. The power of prayer. The power of the Holy Spirit living inside of us\u2014the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead. The power of dependence when He does put us in that posture and we offer ourselves up to Him and He shows up. God consistently puts people in positions where we are desperate for His power. Then He shows up in provision in ways that display His greatness.\n\nMy heart is engaged some today and I'm just thinking if your heart is racing and God is prompting something in you\u2014whether that's prompting to explore adoption or something completely different, but He's using this conversation today to prompt you to something\u2013\u2013I just want to encourage you to reflect on the ways God has been consistently prompting you and take it seriously. Really depend on Him and lean into it with faith.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; that's a good challenge, David. Thank you for that. Speaking of challenges, I want to challenge our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners with something.\n\nDuring the month of May, we have a special opportunity here at <em>FamilyLife<\/em> to take advantage of a matching gift opportunity. Some friends of the ministry have come along and offered to match every donation we receive this month\u2013\u2013dollar-for-dollar\u2013\u2013up to a total of 550,000 dollars. Now that's a big goal to try to match that, so we're hoping that <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners will make either a one-time donation, or become a Legacy Partner and begin making monthly donations.\n\nIn fact, if you become a Legacy Partner, every donation you make for the next twelve months is going to be matched, dollar-for-dollar, until that matching gift fund is depleted. We're hoping that some of you will make a one-time donation and others of you will consider becoming monthly Legacy Partners to help support the ongoing ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\nIf you become a Legacy Partner, we want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d for that by sending you a certificate so that you and your spouse, or someone you know, can attend one of our <em>Weekend to Remember\u00ae <\/em>marriage getaways<em>, <\/em>as our guests.\n\nAgain, the certificate is our way of saying, \u201cThank you,\u201d for becoming a new Legacy Partner. You can sign up for that\u2013\u2013or make a one-time donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com\u2013\u2013or do it by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY. We just want to say thanks in advance for being part of the team and helping to make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible for people in your community\u2013\u2013and for people all over the world.\n\nWe hope you can join us back tomorrow. We're going to talk about what every prospective adoptive parent needs to know so they can go into adoption fully ready, with eyes wide open. Mike Berry will join us again tomorrow. I hope you can join us as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\n<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\n\n1"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:58"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.54M"],"filesize_raw":["26783562"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305013.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305013.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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Berry tells what led him and his wife to pursue adoption and foster parenting. Berry encourages couples to adopt if they feel led, but warns them that at some point they will feel like they are running into a wall.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-13.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Mike Berry says when he and his wife, Kristin, decided they were going to adopt children, they had no idea what they were getting into.\n\n<strong>Mike<\/strong>: I would say Kristin had a more realistic perspective than I did. What we didn't have was\u2013\u2013we had no trauma knowledge\u2013\u2013in terms of some of the trauma history our kids went through. How trauma changes the brain and how it dictates behavior\u2013\u2013we had no clue. I was the person\u2013\u2013I immediately went to the \u201csuper-hero\u201d complex\u2013\u2013the rescuer. Like, \u201cwe're going to do this!\u201d\n\nNow I am the super-hero that is going to swoop down and pull this child out of the dark, awful place and I'm going to be the hero\u2013I'm going to walk into our church and everyone's going to applaud for me. I know, it's ridiculous\u2013\u2013and a lot of people struggle with that.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, May 13. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson, and I'm Bob Lepine.\n\nAdoption is a wonderful thing. It's also a very challenging thing, as we'll hear about today from Mike Berry. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, we've talked a lot about adoption over the years on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, but I don't think I've ever met anybody\u2013\u2013much less interviewed somebody\u2013\u2013who adopted a 24 year old. That's a pretty unique situation, but that's what we've got going for us today.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes. It really makes you want to hear that story behind the story. That's got to be a very unique person, which is who we have in the studio today.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Mike Berry joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Mike, welcome to the program.\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Thanks you. Thanks for having me.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Mike is an author, a speaker, a blogger, and has written a book called, <em>Confessions of an Adoptive Parent<\/em>. You and your wife are parents to, how many?\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>\u00a0Eight children.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Eight kids\u2013\u2013including the oldest, who you adopted at 24.\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Yes, that's true.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay, hold onto that story [Laughter] because we want to start at the beginning with all of this. Where did your desire and your passion for adoption come from?\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Well, going all the way back to the beginning of the story\u2013\u2013or beginning of our story\u2013\u2013the passion came from my wife. She grew up in a family that was an adoptive family. Her grandfather was in the foster care system\u2013\u2013aged out of the foster care system\u2013\u2013so she grew up with storylines of foster care adoption. As I like to say, \u201cHer heart was tuned to adoption and foster care.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember you said earlier in your book that when you were dating, she told you, \u201cI do not want to have biological children; I want to adopt.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This was on the checklist, like if you're not game for this, we're done.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>This was sitting on our college campus\u2013\u2013\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow!\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> \u2013\u2013in front of our library.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did you feel about that? You're a young man\u2013\u2013what were your thoughts?\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>I resisted. It wasn't because I was against adoption\u2013\u2013it was just because I didn't grow up with it. It wasn't a storyline in my family growing up and I just didn't really know anybody who had done this; you know?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Mike, most of the people I've talked to over the years would say, \u201cWe wanted adoption to be part of our story.\u201d Your wife was saying, \u201cI want it to be the whole story.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2013\u2013which is pretty unusual.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> It is, yes\u2013\u2013very much so\u2013\u2013and that was also part of it. We went to a small Christian college, and everybody is getting married. It was kind of like\u2013\u2013this is the format\u2013\u2013\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The \u201cMRS Degree\u201d.\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> The \u201cMRS Degree.\u201d [Laughter] So, everybody's getting that\u2013\u2013everybody's getting married\u2013\u2013everybody's having children and then they're going off and working in the church. You're doing ministry. But then I have this total foreign idea thrown at me\u2013\u2013that we're going to adopt all of our kids\u2013\u2013it just wasn't what I grew up with. Naturally, I pushed back\u2013\u2013I resisted.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>How did she win you over? What happened? Did she win you over? Did God win you over?\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Typically, my wife is very vocal. We talk a lot. We're very vocal\u2013\u2013we're communicators\u2013\u2013so, we talk. One of the things she did\u2013\u2013which I thought was really interesting\u2013\u2013was that she didn't say anything else. It just didn't come up again. It was still very much on her heart, but she could tell that I was going through a little bit of a battle. I was wrestling through some things\u2013\u2013there were a lot of other things going on too\u2013\u2013just a lot of insecurities I was working through.\n\nShe had somebody say to her, \u201cYou know what? You need to let this go for a while. You need to\u2013\u2013if it's something that's supposed to happen\u2013\u2013then you need to trust that God's going to make that happen. You need to pray about that; then just pray for him.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Don't you be the person that talks him into this.\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Yes. In all of our years of working with families, we have often coached couples, \u201cListen, you cannot drag somebody into this journey\u2013\u2013because it's a calling\u2013\u2013and when that happens, you're not entering this journey with the right intentions and the right means.\u201d So, she did that. She just let it go. What was interesting is that there were moments\u2013\u2013in the three to five years that followed\u2013\u2013where people would come into my life.\n\nOne of those in particular was a guy who started off adopting before he had children biologically. Moments like that happened. When we adopted our first-born daughter, Jaala, my heart was changed\u2013\u2013and the way I say it in the book is that God changed my heart\u2013\u2013that's really what it was.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Before we leave that first topic\u2013\u2013I think it's important for people to consider this\u2013\u2013if you're trying to change your spouse, whether it's adoption\u2013\u2013or you name it, trust God. State your heart, share your heart.\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Then let it go, because the harder you push\u2013\u2013again, in your situation it's adoption\u2013\u2013but really in any situation\u2013\u2013I\u2019m saying this so that my wife will hear me. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>She's sitting close to you\u2013\u2013she's within reach of you. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you see that look I gave her?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You're saying the \u201cbadger\u201d strategy\u2013\u2013is not a good strategy.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It doesn't work for me.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>It never worked for me.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I am good at that. I am good at getting in there\u2013\u2013\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2013\u2013and badgering?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>She is good.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You're good at it\u2013\u2013but it doesn't work.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I've come to realize that it really does not work.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Your story is a beautiful one of how your wife did honestly share\u2013\u2013\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It's almost like she laid it down and said, \u201cGod, this is your business.\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That's hard to do\u2013\u2013it's hard to let it go.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And she did\u2013\u2013even that story of that gentleman is like, \u201clook at what God is doing. I've got this.\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Was her reticence to have bio kids\u2013\u2013was it, \u201dI don't want to get pregnant. I don't want the pain\u201d\u2013\u2013or was it philosophically-driven, like, \u201cWe shouldn't have kids\u2013\u2013there are so many kids who need a home\u201d?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Yes; yes\u2013\u2013that was the driving factor right there. She saw what her parents went through to bring her youngest brother home. She remembered the stories that her grandfather would tell\u2026as he grew up\u2013\u2013this was in the \u201840s, I think\u2013\u2013around that time as he was growing up in the foster care system\u2013\u2013so there were zero resources back then. Some of the heartache he went through\u2013\u2013some of the struggles he went through\u2013\n\nKristin has one of the biggest hearts for justice on planet earth. Way back then, she hears those stories, and it's like, \u201cThat's it! Right there. There are so many children who are in need\u2013\u2013that's what our focus is.\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Along the way\u2013\u2013in your marriage journey\u2013\u2013have there been moments when she's seen a pregnant woman and just thought, \u201cMaybe once?\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>We did find out we were pregnant in 2011. Our youngest son was still in foster care, and he was soon to be adopted. It was one of the moments where we both talked about it and decided let's see what happens. We ended up miscarrying\u2013\u2013which was really painful\u2013\u2013but I remember going through that and we realized that maybe this is just confirmation that what we have before us is what our focus is.\n\nThat was hard, because we still were excited, we went through all of that emotion, and then it didn't happen.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I want to go all the way back to the engagement. You were clearly in love with this woman. You knew this is the woman you wanted to marry\u2013\u2013but you also knew, \u201cThis is a decision that I'm making\u2013\u2013that I'll never have bio kids.\u201d Were there second thoughts? Misgivings? Did you walk closer to the altar and go, \u201cWait. Am I going to be able to live with this?\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>I don't know if it was a situation I was second guessing or feeling like, \u201cAh, maybe this isn't a good choice\u201d, but I do\u2013\u2013there were moments where I felt that something was missing. I don't even think I could articulate back then that this is what it was. Now I look back on that and I wouldn't even say that I was fully committed to that. It's one of those moments where you, if this makes sense, that you're on this journey and you feel like, \u201cI love this, but I feel so distant from it.\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nThen, all along the way, God was changing my heart. What I often tell people is that adoption\u2013\u2013foster care\u2013\u2013this journey\u2013\u2013it's broken me from some <em>serious<\/em> selfishness. As I look way, way back in those engagement days, I was a horribly self-centered person. That was a process I had to work through. I mean, we all have to work through that\u2013\u2013human beings have to work through that\u2013\u2013and we still struggle with that.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I was going to say that you're not alone in this.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann<\/strong>: Which is true, even for bio kids. God works through that and tears out our selfish-ness\u2013\u2013tries to. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>It was just like a destroying\u2013\u2013just destroying me. I can't even say right now that I wish we would have\u2013\u2013because I'm so glad that we're on the journey we're on. I could not have written a better story. That's why I'm glad the pen was taken out of my hands because the story <em>I<\/em> would have wanted to write\u2013\u2013not the story that I'm living\u2013\u2013I'd much rather live the story that I'm living.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It's interesting\u2013\u2013if you haven't read your book or know your story, you could actually hear you right now and think, \u201cOh, this must be an unbelievable, beautiful family\u2013\u2013with all these wonderful days after days with all these kids. [Laughter]\n\nEarly in the book you find out\u2013\u2013I'm going it read this\u2013\u2013\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Yes. Go for it!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2013\u2013it says, \u201cWe've been to some of the darkest places ever, including\u201d\u2013\u2013here's just a list and I'm sure it's triple this but\u2013\u2013\n\n\u201cconstant rejection from a child that we would move mountains to love and serve, another child wanting to end her life at just 12 years old, a child who routinely emotionally and physically attacks our family, multiple run-ins with police with one of our kids, judgmental stares, whispers and glares from teachers, coaches, neighbors, and extended family. Feeling that we messed up, missed our calling, or failed as parents because we can't stop our children from making horrible choices.\u201d\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Yes. All true.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I'm guessing before you adopted, you never imagined that would be the list you'd write someday.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you have the fairy tale, happily ever after\u2013\u2013these children will be so grateful that we've stepped in and adopted them?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike<\/strong>: Oh, absolutely; yes. I'd say Kristin had a more realistic perspective than I did. What we didn't have was\u2013\u2013we had no trauma knowledge, in terms of some of the trauma history our kids went through\u2013\u2013how trauma changes the brain and how it dictates behavior\u2013\u2013we had <em>no<\/em> clue what any of that looked like.\n\nI was the person\u2013\u2013I immediately\u2013\u2013this is really out of that self-centeredness that I really struggled with\u2013\u2013I immediately went to that super-hero complex\u2013\u2013the rescuer. Like, \u201cWe're going to do this and now I am the super-hero that is going to swoop down and pull this child out of this dark, awful place and I'm going to be the hero\u2013\u2013I'm going to walk into our church and everyone's going to applaud for me. [Laughter]\n\nI know, it's ridiculous, but that's\u2013\u2013a lot of people struggle with that.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u00a0I was going to ask, do a lot of people walk into this with those thoughts?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Totally. Often people message us or walk up to us after live events and they'll say things and you can immediately see that, \u201cOkay. You're going to hit a brick wall.\u201d\u00a0 Like, do\u2013\u2013if you're called to do this, do this. This is a calling. There's no question.\n\nBut there will be a moment when you find yourself running into a wall because you were so focused on what we like to call the \u201cHollywood perspective\u201d\u2013\u2013you know, Angelina Jolie jumps on a Learjet and flies to Cambodia. That would have been awesome if I had a Learjet at my disposal\u2013\u2013I would have flown somewhere to bring a child home, but that's not reality for most of us. So, people get that idea that this is what it's going to look like.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nThe other thing that people have the misconception over is that the way I grew up\u2013\u2013the traditional methods that my parents used. In my household and in my wife's household, if our parents said, \u201cNo\u201d, that was the end. No meant no. You could challenge it, but then, there's going to be problems; right? But those traditional methods don't work with kiddos who have come from traumatic places, who've been through significant abuse, neglect, gone through all of these things that we can't even imagine.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I talked to a friend who had adopted two boys out of foster care. When they got them, the boys were 4 and 6 years old. They already had bio kids and he had experienced his bio kids lying to him and he knew pretty well how to deal with a lying child; right?\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> He knew that you could talk to them and pretty soon the cracks in their story will reveal and their heart will get soft and they'll confess and you can have these healing moments. He said and then I get these two kids who have learned as a life-coping mechanism, at age 4, the way you survive is by lying with impunity\u2013\u2013with not conscience seared at all. And he said that as a parent I have no idea what to do in this situation. He said, \u201cI was stymied with this and wondering how do you make this work?\u201d\n\nThis is the kind of reality you've dealt with, not only with lying, but all kinds of issues; right?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Oh, yes. Yes, you have to go into this journey understanding that children who have gone through chronic trauma, starvation, neglect, abuse, witness domestic violence\u2013\u2013the list goes on and on. They are functioning in survival mode. If our brain stem exists to help us survive, like we do things without thinking\u2013\u2013breathing, heartbeat, movement\u2013\u2013our amygdala is the alarm system in our brain. Our pre-frontal cortex is the reasoning and logic and self-control. If something happens, my amygdala pops, an alarm goes off, then it eventually calms down; right?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nBut in a child who has gone through chronic abuse and neglect and has been through chronic trauma\u2013\u2013that amygdala stays \u201cpopped\u201d and they're functioning out of brain stem. You can't look at a child in that situation and say, \u201cWhat\u2019s wrong with you?\u201d or, \u201cWhy did you?\u201d or \u201cHow could you?\u201d because they simply can't answer that\u2013\u2013they don't know. They're working in survival mode.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>One of the things you say in the book is that you had to learn how to win your child's heart. What does that mean and what did that look like?\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike<\/strong>: The way that I grew up\u2013\u2013it was a very vocal household\u2013\u2013Dad always had the last word. When I stepped into parenting, I kind of had that mentality like, \u201cWhat I say is final and there's no pushing back. What I say goes.\u201d I prided myself on winning the argument, but all the while, I'm losing their heart. So, I'm losing this ability\u2013\u2013this opportunity\u2013\u2013to connect with them on a deeper level, which often times parents fall into because they see things like disagreements or arguments or those tense moments\n\nwith your kids\u2013\u2013they see those as \u201cme versus you\u201d.\n\nThere are still boundaries\u2013\u2013there are still guidelines and household rules\u2013\u2013but at the same time, we have this opportunity to connect with our kids and enter into conversations with them, to really learn what they're thinking\u2013\u2013especially as they grow into the teen years. Like, \u201cWhy do you feel so strongly about this?\u201d Or maybe a situation where you could ask, \u201cWhy did you do that? What were you thinking?\u201d\u2013\u2013and give them permission to speak into that. The boundaries still stay in place, but you're building a bridge, instead of creating a wall\u2013\u2013and that's key.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I mentioned as we started today that you're the only guy I ever met who adopted a 24 year old. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>There's not many of us.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Before we get too far along here, tell us that story.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>That's always one of the biggest questions we get. Like, \u201cWhat in the world?\u201d Most people don't realize you can adopt adults\u2013\u2013you can adopt any adult\u2013\u2013there's really no state-by-state regulations. As soon as I adopted her, I had lots of people saying, \u201cWill you adopt me?\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter] I had those requests. It got really weird, really quick.\n\nRachel, who is our oldest child\u2013\u2013as a freshman in high school, we moved to Indiana to become youth pastors and she was in our youth group. She was in a youth group in a suburban area and we connected with her because she was very standoffish. She wasn't a Type A personality.\n\nKristin really began mentoring her from her freshman year on. Her mother passed away 2 weeks after her high school graduation, so she moved in with us in the summer of 2004. We moved her into college that fall, and she just remained a part of our family.\n\nThen you fast forward to 2011 or 2012, she showed one July afternoon to our house and we're just having a conversation and she looks at us and she says, \u201cHey, by the way, I know what I want for Christmas this year.\u201d Which was, \u201cOkay\u2013\u2013that's early, but let's talk.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> She said, \u201cI want to be adopted.\u201d We looked at her and said, \u201cRachel, you've always been a part of our family.\u201d She said, \u201cI know, but I want the paper that says\u2013\u2013I want to make this official.\u201d We said, \u201cIf that's want you want, then absolutely.\u201d So we went to our county courthouse and finalized her adoption. It was really cool. She was 24 at the time.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How many kids did you have at that point?\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> At that point, we had seven.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So she's the last one.\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> She\u2019s eighth. Yes, she's the eighth.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What did she really want?\n\n<strong>Mike:<\/strong> You know, she\u2013\u2013permanency. Her biological father, biological mother\u2013\u2013both had passed on. She has a biological brother who she's still connected to, but I think that all of us want to belong somewhere\u2013\u2013all of us want to be able to say, \u201cThat's home.\u201d And you picture the child, the eight-year-old\u2013\u2013the nine-year-old, who's just longing for that forever home. It really breaks your heart because you realize, \u201cI don't know what that's like.\u201d\n\nI <em>always<\/em> had my home\u2013\u2013and I still do to this day. I could call my mom and dad and go home at any point. But to think about that in a child\u2013\u201311-year-old, a 12-year-old\u2013\u2013it's like, I don't want a Nintendo, I don't want an iPhone\u2014I want a mom and dad. That breaks your heart right there.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, reading this book, I kept thinking\u2013\u2013anybody who's thinking about adoption\u2013\u2013they ought to read this first. This is kind of that cold slap in the face that just goes, [Laughter] \u201cLet's just make sure you know what you're getting into\u201d\u2013\u2013and we're advocates here. We think adoption\u2019s a good thing\u2013\u2013we're for it. We think people should go into it, but I've run into listeners of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> who've said to me, \u201cYou guys need to tell the whole story. Don't just paint the romantic picture\u2013\u2013but tell the whole story\u2013\u2013because it's hard.\u201d\n\nSometimes you get yourself into stuff that you go, \u201cMan, can we even survive this?\u201d\u00a0 The list you read, Dave\u2013\u2013I mean\u2013\u2013that's a pretty powerful list.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Honestly\u2013\u2013you know better than anyone in this room, Mike\u2013\u2013that's just a little bit of the list. If you keep reading, that book tells you the truth. <em>Confessions <\/em>is real. I'm sitting here, just moved by the heart of God, in you.\n\nPaul says\u2013\u2013the apostle Paul, in Ephesians 1:5 says, \u201cWe are adopted, predestined to adoption as sons and daughters to the King.\u201d So I feel like I'm looking at\u2026the picture\u2013\u2013on a human level\u2013\u2013of God's heart. You've got the heart of God and I know it's hard and we're rebellious kids to our heavenly Father, but, way to go! It really is a calling from God and you're modeling to the world\u2013\u2013this is the heart of the Father for us as rebellious children\u2013\u2013and it's a beautiful, beautiful picture of the heart of God.\n\n<strong>Mike: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We've got copies of the book Mike has written. It's called, <em>Confessions of an Adoptive Parent<\/em>\u2013\u2013<em>Hope and Help from the Trenches of Foster Care and Adoption<\/em>. You can order copies when you go online on FamilyLifeToday.com\u2013\u2013or call, if you'd like to request the book. Our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website, FamilyLifeToday.com\u2013\u2013or call to get a copy of <em>Confessions of an Adoptive Parent<\/em>,\n\n1-800-358-6329. That's 1-800, \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nYou know, I keep thinking back today to what Dennis Rainey called, \u201cthe prayer of the helpless parent\u201d\u2013\u2013which is that prayer that says, \u201cHelp!\u201d We're all in a position of dependence, whether we're dealing with adopted kids or bio kids and David Robbins, the President of FamilyLife\u00ae is here. That's a good place for us to be; isn't it?\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> I think a lot of times it's the place God purposely puts us, where we are dependent on Him. The whole conversation today reminds me of the power of trusting God for the values that He's put in our hearts. The power of prayer. The power of the Holy Spirit living inside of us\u2014the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead. The power of dependence when He does put us in that posture and we offer ourselves up to Him and He shows up. God consistently puts people in positions where we are desperate for His power. Then He shows up in provision in ways that display His greatness.\n\nMy heart is engaged some today and I'm just thinking if your heart is racing and God is prompting something in you\u2014whether that's prompting to explore adoption or something completely different, but He's using this conversation today to prompt you to something\u2013\u2013I just want to encourage you to reflect on the ways God has been consistently prompting you and take it seriously. Really depend on Him and lean into it with faith.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; that's a good challenge, David. Thank you for that. Speaking of challenges, I want to challenge our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners with something.\n\nDuring the month of May, we have a special opportunity here at <em>FamilyLife<\/em> to take advantage of a matching gift opportunity. Some friends of the ministry have come along and offered to match every donation we receive this month\u2013\u2013dollar-for-dollar\u2013\u2013up to a total of 550,000 dollars. Now that's a big goal to try to match that, so we're hoping that <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners will make either a one-time donation, or become a Legacy Partner and begin making monthly donations.\n\nIn fact, if you become a Legacy Partner, every donation you make for the next twelve months is going to be matched, dollar-for-dollar, until that matching gift fund is depleted. We're hoping that some of you will make a one-time donation and others of you will consider becoming monthly Legacy Partners to help support the ongoing ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\nIf you become a Legacy Partner, we want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d for that by sending you a certificate so that you and your spouse, or someone you know, can attend one of our <em>Weekend to Remember\u00ae <\/em>marriage getaways<em>, <\/em>as our guests.\n\nAgain, the certificate is our way of saying, \u201cThank you,\u201d for becoming a new Legacy Partner. You can sign up for that\u2013\u2013or make a one-time donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com\u2013\u2013or do it by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY. We just want to say thanks in advance for being part of the team and helping to make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible for people in your community\u2013\u2013and for people all over the world.\n\nWe hope you can join us back tomorrow. We're going to talk about what every prospective adoptive parent needs to know so they can go into adoption fully ready, with eyes wide open. Mike Berry will join us again tomorrow. I hope you can join us as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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