{"id":304993,"date":"2019-05-02T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-05-02T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/men-have-vision\/"},"modified":"2019-05-02T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2019-05-02T15:00:00","slug":"men-have-vision","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/men-have-vision\/","title":{"rendered":"Men Have Vision"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Brian Tome | Series: The Five Marks of a Man | What is a man? Brian Tome, pastor of Crossroads Church, talks about the qualities that make men unique. Tome recalls his youth and the irresponsibility that marked much of it. Tome explains that a man has a vision for his life while a boy lives day to day.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/.<br \/>\n \tHelp FamilyLife\u00ae continue to produce our radio and podcast programs by\u00a0visiting https:\/\/donate.familylife.com\/legacy-partner\/.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Brian Tome talks about the qualities that make men unique. Tome recalls his youth and the irresponsibility that marked much of it. Tome explains that a man has a vision for his life while a boy lives day to day.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-02.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:20","filesize":"27.71M","filesize_raw":"29058184","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2901,2826],"tags":[6604,6605],"podcast_series":[8272],"cwp_profile":[9529],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304993","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-husbands","category-men","tag-men-are-protectors","tag-the-five-marks-of-a-man","podcast_series-the-five-marks-of-a-man","cwp_profile-brian-tome","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304993\/men-have-vision","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304993\/men-have-vision","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"mTpZL8U301\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/men-have-vision\/\">Men Have Vision<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/men-have-vision\/embed\/#?secret=mTpZL8U301\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Men Have Vision&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"mTpZL8U301\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-02.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-02.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, May 2<sup>nd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson, and I'm Bob Lepine.\n\nPastor Brian Tome joins us today and says if we want to know what the Bible has to say about masculinity, there are better places to look than at the example of someone like Samson. We\u2019ll talk more about that today; stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us.\n\nWe\u2019re talking about a subject this week that\u2014you shared a little bit, already, Ann, that you have some mixed emotions about calling men to manhood and the implications of that for wives and for moms and for single women in our culture.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think every woman resonates with this. It stirs in them, \u201cYes, this is right, this sounds good.\u201d But there\u2019s another part of us, as women, that we\u2019ve had to step into that role as protector, as provider, because maybe a man hasn\u2019t or hasn\u2019t been there. So women have had to become strong in this culture. To hear this, I\u2019ve realized that I have some of that in me, that I have a protective shell around me that\u2019s had to be strong because maybe in the past I haven\u2019t had someone there to protect me.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know what, Bob? I have to jump in, because I know where this comes from. I\u2019ve been married to this woman for a long time; it\u2019s been awesome. Part of her strength\u2014and she\u2019s a very strong woman, and I know strong women and she\u2019s at the top, which is awesome\u2014but I think part of what Ann is feeling right now is, she was married to a passive boy, me, for almost a decade, I think. Even as I read through what a man is through Scripture, I started realizing, \u201cI\u2019m not a man yet, and I\u2019m 25, 28 years old.\u201d That\u2019s why this conversation\u2019s so critical. I was that guy. So I know\u2014some of that\u2019s just\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s funny, honey; I wasn\u2019t even thinking of you, but\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I know. But I\u2019m sitting here thinking, \u201cThat\u2019s part of what she\u2019s feeling; she had to be strong because her man wasn\u2019t.\u201d\n\nI think the beauty that we get about today is I became a man. She was part of the process, she watched it. But when we got married, I thought I was a man, like so many do, and I wasn\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, as we have this conversation\u2014and we\u2019re going to introduce our guest here in just a minute, but\u2014Ann, do you think wives and moms, single women, want men to step up and reassert themselves as men and say, \u201cI\u2019ll protect you,\u201d or do they want men to go, \u201cYou\u2019re a capable woman; you can protect yourself\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think women long for men to be beside them in the battle. I think women feel like we are in the battle, and we\u2019ve been battling, sometimes, alone, and we want men there, because men are strong, and they carry a peace that we don\u2019t carry, which is beautiful.\n\nSo I think every woman listening is like, \u201cI want that,\u201d but there\u2019s also another part of them that thinks, \u201cWill my husband ever become that, or will\u2014\u201d you know, \u201cI\u2019m a single mom. Will my son ever experience a man that will pull that out of him?\u201d So that longing is absolutely there.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re talking about what makes a man a man this week, and Dave, we have your friend Brian Tome joining us. Brian, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you, great to be here.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Brian his a pastor from Cincinnati, Ohio at Crossroads Church\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 And I\u2019ll tell you, Bob (he\u2019s too humble to tell you this), it\u2019s one of the fastest-growing churches in the country.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 A lot of people coming to Crossroads.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 As a fellow pastor in ministry, it\u2019s such a joy to watch what God\u2019s done in you, Brian, and through you. You\u2019re a model for us. I mean, you started after us. It\u2019s like the student, you know, and we\u2019re the teacher, and it\u2019s like the student has gone way beyond the teacher; it\u2019s pretty cool.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Brian, as you sat down to write this book, <em>The Five Marks of a Man<\/em>, this was after a lot of years of processing this on your own and then presenting this to the congregation of Crossroads and then helping them grapple with these concepts. Was this because of your own lack of understanding about your own masculinity?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it was my personal needing to prove to the world myself that I was a man, and I didn\u2019t even know how to do that, didn\u2019t even know what a man was. I didn\u2019t want other males to go down the same barren road with no answers that I had gone through, just trying to prove and feel like we were men. That led me to deeper study and reflection, to try to help my son and give him a better start than I had.\n\nA verse that I think is really important for us is First Corinthians 16, verses 13 to 14. Let me read it to you. It says this: \u201cBe watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.\u201d\n\nNow, this is a great verse, and I think the five marks are all hinted at in here. First of all, \u201cact like men,\u201d is in the plural. Men are team players; boys are individual MVPs. That\u2019s one of the marks.\n\nIt also talks here about being watchful, being watchful about having a vision. A man has a vision; a boy lives day-to-day, doesn\u2019t have anything he\u2019s living for.\n\n\u201cStand firm in the faith.\u201d What is faith? Faith is something that you can\u2019t entirely prove; that\u2019s why it\u2019s called faith. You stand firm in it, and whenever there\u2019s something you can\u2019t entirely prove, you will be in the minority. Men take a minority position; boys always have to be in the majority.\n\n\u201cLet all that you do\u2026\u201d There\u2019s a sense of love that happens there, and we do this by working. You do when you work. Men work; boys don\u2019t want to work. All boys want to do is play.\n\nAnd it is to be done in love. This happens\u2014the greatest act of love was Jesus dying on a cross. What did He do on a cross for us? He protected us from having to pay for our sins forever. Men are protectors; boys are predators.\n\nSo I think that these five marks come up again and again; in every male that we all admire, they\u2019re all at least alluded to here in this passage, and every Bible hero at his best, when you see them, they have these five marks.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, let\u2019s take some time going through these and just unpacking them for guys. You said that a boy lives day-to-day, a man has a longer-term vision. Just explain that a little bit.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, let\u2019s use my own loser life for a moment if we could. [Laughter]\n\nI was in college for seven years, and I didn\u2019t train to be a doctor. Seven years! Seven years to get a four-year degree. That\u2019s part of what happens when your parents value education and they pay for your college. I would drop classes because I didn\u2019t want to go to the final, and have to repeat Accounting I again. I took Accounting I three times! Three times. I had a sterling 2.25 GPA in high school. Do you know why I did those things that I\u2019m really embarrassed by? It\u2019s because I didn\u2019t have a vision.\n\nMy son one time was upset about the homework he was doing, and he said, \u201cThis is stupid. I don\u2019t know what I\u2019m doing this. I\u2019m never going to have to use this.\u201d I looked at him and said, \u201cYes, you\u2019re right, you\u2019re never going to have to use that.\u201d He looked at me like he had me busted. He was like, \u201cWell, then why am I doing this?\u201d\n\nI said, \u201cYou\u2019re not necessarily going to use geometry, but what you\u2019re doing right now is you\u2019re getting a sheepskin that\u2019s going to open up opportunities to you in the future.\u201d\n\nNo one told me that. No one told me\u2014I didn\u2019t like school, I didn\u2019t see what the point of it was. I didn\u2019t have a vision. School\u2019s all about a vision. I\u2019m going to do something I don\u2019t want to do today so I can have a better tomorrow.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 So Brian, if I\u2019m a 12, 13, 14-year-old boy and I come to you as a spiritual man in my life, or a pastor, coach\u2014you name it\u2014and I say, \u201cGive me the long game. I don\u2019t know what it is. What is a vision I should have? What\u2019s a vision a man has?\u201d A boy doesn\u2019t have it, a man does. What is it?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Whatever your vision is right now, it\u2019s probably going to change, but you need to have something right now that\u2019s going to help you endure difficulty tomorrow. For some of us, it\u2019s a simple vision of, \u201cI\u2019m going to get through school,\u201d and then we get another vision. Others of us\u2014I\u2019ve talked with one guy that said, \u201cMy vision is going to be, I\u2019m going to be the first person in my family who will never have a divorce.\u201d That\u2019s a vision.\n\nWe\u2019re not talking here about, \u201cWe\u2019re going to revolutionize the tech world and start the next Apple.\u201d Maybe you want to, and maybe you can do that; that\u2019s great. We\u2019re just talking about something in your mind that\u2019s going to take time to get there and gives you reason for why you\u2019re going through difficulty right now.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 So it\u2019s goals. It\u2019s setting short- and long-term goals that will affect your life in the future.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, though I\u2019ve never set a goal in my life, so\u2026\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 What\u2019s a vision? Why that word?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, just goal\u2014I think goal does tell us, you know, \u201cBy this date, I\u2019m supposed to have this many of that.\u201d I\u2019m okay with that; I\u2019m not saying we shouldn\u2019t do that. But there has to be a burn, there has to be an internal burn that just says, \u201cThat\u2019s where I\u2019m going. I\u2019m going to go through this briar patch here because that fuzzy thing\u2014I think that\u2019s a mountaintop over there\u2014I\u2019m going to go to that, and therefore I\u2019m going to go through the briar patch.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, and I would suggest to you here, too, that one of the differences between a man and a boy is a boy can have a vision where he\u2019s thinking, \u201cThis is the goal, this is what I\u2019m aspiring to,\u201d but at the end of it, it\u2019s\u2014I\u2019m doing it for me. I\u2019m doing it for my own self-satisfaction, for my own benefit. I\u2019m not thinking of others, and I\u2019m not thinking of the glory of God in the midst of this; I\u2019m just doing this because when I get there, when I have the toy, I want the Ferrari, or I want the Condor, or I want this. You\u2019re still a boy if you have a vision but it\u2019s all about you.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Very insightful, I would like to just be one of rare people that says here right now, it\u2019s crazy how many of us think of Samson as a Bible hero. Samson is not a Bible hero. He is a boy. He is an utter boy. Everything is done for him; his sexual urges, his grooming habits. At the end of his life, he said, before he pushed over those pillars, he says, \u201cLet me take vengeance for me,\u201d is basically what he says. It\u2019s not about the glory of God, it\u2019s not about the reputation of Israel; it\u2019s about him.\n\nSo yes, a boy can have some vision that sounds great about starting a new .com, but one of the marks of a man is a man who\u2019s a team player; a boy plays for MVPs. So, a vision must have others engaged and the recipients, or else you\u2019re being a boy.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, when is a moment in your life where you have rejected, overcome passivity as a boy and taken a courageous stand or move to be a man?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 The ones in the book I talk about were taking a stand to help those in generational poverty in the city of Cincinnati and having people in our church upset that we had bought property, and they thought it was going to hurt their property values, and seeing people picket our church. I mean, that was a minority position; took a stand. Took a stand\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, wait. Generational poverty\u2014what were you doing there?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 We built a center called the Citylink Center; it was a ten-million-dollar facility that we built, and then we funded a million dollars a year ongoing, and we brought a bunch of social services into one house so those in poverty wouldn\u2019t have to go all over the city; there\u2019d be a one-stop shop to help them and mentor them to wholeness.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Was it fearful for you to step out and say, \u201cLet\u2019s do this\u201d?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, yes; for one, where\u2019s the ten million dollars going to come from? Where\u2019s that going to come from?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 There is that.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Second, when you have picketers out front picketing your church, that\u2019s not a fun time.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Mm-hmm.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 But was being a minority, taking a stand.\n\nHow will I parent my kids is another one. I took my daughter and my son to a Reds game. They were seven and five. They\u2019re seven and five, we\u2019re at a Cincinnati Reds game. I gave them some money; I said, \u201cI want you to go back and I want you to get me a Coke and a hot dog; get yourself anything you want, too.\u201d\n\nThey looked at me like, \u201cWhat?\u201d I said, \u201cJust walk up this aisle, go back up the aisle, go there and stand in line.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Seven and five.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Seven and five. Now, if we were in the Bronx I don\u2019t know if I would have, but Cincinnati in 1997 was pretty serene. So they took off, and they came back with that hot dog and that Coke, and I\u2019ll tell you what, they grew that day.\n\nThe stuff that I would do to my kids, people judged me all the time. You have to get used to taking a stand, you have to get used to being in the minority position, because where the majority\u2019s going is not that good, and the fruit isn\u2019t that sweet.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is interesting; you have a vision for boys to become men, for girls to become women; I mean, that\u2019s part of it in this minority position as well. It\u2019s interesting, in the section in the book about taking the minority position, you get into the whole thing of integrity as well. So, how does that play out? As you\u2019re raising these kids, and even you and me as a man, how do we live with wholeness?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, it starts with us. I\u2019ll just do my latest confession\u2014this is just a morning, honestly, this morning repentance.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Like, today?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, today; literally this morning.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay. Alright.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 So yes, Brian Tome has boy moments. I live in this place where there\u2019s a bunch of acreage around it, and you\u2019re not allowed to hunt in the acreage. We kind of share the acreage, and you\u2019re not allowed to hunt in it. I\u2019ve never hunted before, but all of a sudden I said, \u201cI want to go hunt something and eat it, and I have this property right behind my house!\u201d So I got this crossbow\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did you do this this morning?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, I didn\u2019t kill it this morning. I\u2019ve killed and eaten two deer in the last six weeks; pulled them out of the woods, that stuff.\n\nSo, a friend of mine, just yesterday, who lives in the same plan, said, \u201cHey, just tell me how you\u2019re processing doing what\u2019s against the rules.\u201d I said, \u201cWell, that\u2019s a good question. This isn\u2019t the section where there\u2019s the walk-in trails.\u201d That\u2019s what I said.\n\nThis morning I was reading\u2014I had my quiet time in Romans 13, and it talks about honoring authorities, not violating your conscience, inviting the wrath of God. God just spoke to me really clearly [about] not honoring the authority of that land, because it shouldn\u2019t be happening.\n\nSo I\u2019m emailing an apology, and a repentance email\u2019s going out. Man, that was a boyish move, man. Boys always have an excuse to bend the rules and to violate right and wrong, and right there I had done it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Where does a man get the foundation to take a minority position?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think we get inspired, Dave, by seeing other people do it. That\u2019s part of why I just confessed that. Not only is confession good for the soul, but maybe someone\u2019s going to listen to that and be inspired by it. I know I\u2019m inspired when I see other people making strong confession and make strong moves. I mean, you talked about Kensington, the church where you cut your teeth and where you served. I would regularly come and just hang around Kensington Church, because I saw aggressive moves that you guys were making. It inspired me.\n\nWe need to see that with other men. We just need to be around other people who are lifting our highest level instead of pushing us down and lowering their expectations on us.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Which leads us further conversation about men needing men to become men.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s something that you\u2019ve needed in your own life, but you\u2019ve been pressing your boys to have those kinds of relationships and the men at your church. You really feel this is a high value for every guy.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, I\u2019m like Brian in terms of I\u2019m a vigilante on the stage with men. I\u2019m like, \u201cIf you\u2019re coming here more than six weeks and you haven\u2019t found some men to do life with\u2026\u201d I\u2019m yelling at them, you know. I\u2019m like, \u201cCome on!\u201d I want to call them out of boyhood to manhood, because we have to. It\u2019s true for women as well, no question, but men so often isolate ourselves, and we don\u2019t become men. We have to aggressively pursue it, go, find the men you need to do life with, and they\u2019re going to change your life.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 And we as women long for our men to be with other men.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 We really want that\u2014\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 You feel safe, actually. If your man\u2019s by himself, you feel very vulnerable.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, exactly. But when he\u2019s surrounded by good men, we push that. We want our husbands to do it. A lot of times they just don\u2019t want to.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, if a husband was to say to his wife, \u201cYou know, I\u2019m going to get a copy of this book they were talking about on the radio, <em>The Five Marks of a Man<\/em>, and just get together and with three or four other guys and go through it,\u201d you\u2019re saying a wife would go, \u201cI would love that\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 Our temptation is that we would be putting it beside the toilet. [Laughter] You know, \u201cPlease read this book! Please read it.\u201d Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But even if the guy\u2019s saying, \u201cThat means I\u2019m gone Thursday and you have to put the kids to bed and handle it yourself,\u201d a wife\u2019s going to go, \u201cI want you to have that time doing that\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely. Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ll add this. I\u2019ve been doing life with seven guys for 20 years, my best friends. There is never one time in our marriage where Ann has said, \u201cDon\u2019t spend time with those guys.\u201d She\u2019s pushing me out the door, because she knows I come back a better man, better husband, better dad.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 He\u2019s inspired. You\u2019re right, Brian; he\u2019s inspired by other men doing what God\u2019s called them to do.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, so, guys who are listening, get a copy of the book <em>The Five Marks of a<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>Man<\/em>, get together with some other guys, and go through this a chapter at time and have conversations about what\u2019s in this book. Wives who are listening\u2026do they get the book and put it by the toilet, or do they just pray, or what do they do? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think that\u2019s up to you guys. What should we do? What would you say?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ve read a few books by the toilet\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay. [Laughter] They just wound up there? You went, \u201cHow did this book get here?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cHow did that get there?\u201d My wife knows I spend some time there, so\u2014\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, one thing you definitely cannot do as a woman is you cannot make your husband feel like you\u2019re giving him an assignment. I wish we would respond better to challenge from our wives, but we generally don\u2019t, especially in the area of, \u201cYou need to be a better man,\u201d because that\u2019s how they\u2019ll interpret this. \u201cOh, you want me to have this book because I\u2019m really not being a\u2014\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 So you just have to be careful.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want to talk about that, too, the next time, because we as women need help in knowing how to do that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Alright, we\u2019ll see if we can get a chance to unpack some of that. Right now, let me tell our listeners how they can get a copy of Brian Tome\u2019s book, <em>The Five Marks of a Man: Finding Your Path to Courageous Manhood.<\/em> We have it on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call to order at 1-800-FLTODAY.\n\nIn addition to Brian\u2019s book, I want to encourage you to think about getting together with dads and sons this summer. If you have sons who are, I would say, 16 or older, plan 10 nights this summer when you are some of their friends and their friends\u2019 dads could all get together and have a cookout or do something and then sit down and watch each of the ten sessions that are part of the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> video series for men.\n\nThis is a great way for dads to interact with this material, but also for sons to begin to think about, \u201cWhat does it mean that God made me a man, and how am I supposed to respond to that? How do I embrace biblical masculinity and live that out?\u201d\n\nWe have copies of that video series available in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center; you can go online to order the kit that has the workbook and the videos and the copy of Dennis Rainey\u2019s book <em>Stepping Up<\/em>. Again, the information about how to order is available online at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order Brian Tome\u2019s book <em>The Five Marks of a Man<\/em>. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information, or call 1-800-FLTODAY if we can answer any questions for you or if you\u2019d like to order by phone. 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nYou know, Brian talked today about the importance of having a band of brothers, a tribe, a group of guys you get with where you\u2019re\u2014I hate to use the expression, but \u201cdoing life together,\u201d right? The President of FamilyLife, David Robbins, is here. You have a group like that, right?\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0 I do. I really can\u2019t imagine life without them. We dominoed into each other\u2019s lives spiritually in college, where I saw one of my close friends really start passionately pursuing the Lord, and over time it drew me and there were a few others that dominoed after me into each other\u2019s lives. As we graduated, we just kind of made this pact that \u201cwe want to keep this going.\u201d\n\nSo, sure enough, every May we get together, and there\u2019s a cost to it. There\u2019s a cost to our wives, there\u2019s a cost to getting there, but it is so worth it. If anything, Meg pushes me out the door, going, \u201cYou need this. I see what happens when you come back.\u201d\n\nWe\u2019re coming up on our 20<sup>th<\/sup> year this year, and you know, we keep it pretty simple. We talk throughout the year on some video calls, but when we get together we simply call it \u201cgoing around the horn,\u201d and each person gets a turn in the hot seat and has about an hour to really divulge anything good, bad, ugly in their lives. There\u2019s that safety and that vulnerability that\u2019s already established.\n\nSo we go there, and I just simply hear the conversation today and just go, if you don\u2019t have that, people want it. Every man wants it. Take the step of faith, take the risk, be the first to initiate; go there.\n\nIf you\u2019re the wife of a man, encourage him. Don\u2019t get in the way; push him toward it, especially if those friends intentionally push him towards Jesus.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 How many guys are in your group?\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0 We have six of us.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay. That\u2019s about a good size. You wouldn\u2019t want it much bigger than that.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0 You end up just being limited on time to really do to the deep places beneath the surface that you need to go to.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, that\u2019s good. Thank you, David.\n\nYou know, conversations like this are important conversations to have, and those of you who are not just regular listeners, but those of you support the ministry of FamilyLife, either as regular monthly donors, Legacy Partners, or who make a one-time donation, you make all of this kind of conversation possible with your financial support.\n\nDuring the month of May, we\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry who have come to us and offered to match every donation we receive from listeners, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $550,000. We are very excited about this opportunity, and so we\u2019re asking <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners: would you either make a one-time donation, knowing your donation is going to be doubled, dollar for dollar, or would consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>?\n\nIf you do, every donation you make over the next 12 months will be matched, dollar for dollar, from this matching fund that\u2019s been established. In addition, we\u2019ll send you, as a thank-you gift, a gift card so you and your spouse or someone you know can attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. It\u2019s our thank-you gift for signing on as a new legacy partner.\n\nYou can find out more about becoming a legacy partner, or donate, or sign up online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call if you have any questions or you\u2019d like to take care of things by phone. Call 1-800-FLTODAY; 1-800-358-6329. Thank you for making practical, biblical help and hope available for your neighbors, for your friends, for people all around the world as you support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We appreciate you so much.\n\nAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow, when we\u2019re going to talk about how important it is for our picture of manhood to be understood biblically and not conditioned culturally. Brian Tome will join us again tomorrow; hope you can be here as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\n<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\n\n1"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:30:20"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["27.71M"],"filesize_raw":["29058184"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304993.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304993.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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Tome talks about the qualities that make men unique. Tome recalls his youth and the irresponsibility that marked much of it. Tome explains that a man has a vision for his life while a boy lives day to day.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-05-02.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, May 2<sup>nd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson, and I'm Bob Lepine.\n\nPastor Brian Tome joins us today and says if we want to know what the Bible has to say about masculinity, there are better places to look than at the example of someone like Samson. We\u2019ll talk more about that today; stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us.\n\nWe\u2019re talking about a subject this week that\u2014you shared a little bit, already, Ann, that you have some mixed emotions about calling men to manhood and the implications of that for wives and for moms and for single women in our culture.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think every woman resonates with this. It stirs in them, \u201cYes, this is right, this sounds good.\u201d But there\u2019s another part of us, as women, that we\u2019ve had to step into that role as protector, as provider, because maybe a man hasn\u2019t or hasn\u2019t been there. So women have had to become strong in this culture. To hear this, I\u2019ve realized that I have some of that in me, that I have a protective shell around me that\u2019s had to be strong because maybe in the past I haven\u2019t had someone there to protect me.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know what, Bob? I have to jump in, because I know where this comes from. I\u2019ve been married to this woman for a long time; it\u2019s been awesome. Part of her strength\u2014and she\u2019s a very strong woman, and I know strong women and she\u2019s at the top, which is awesome\u2014but I think part of what Ann is feeling right now is, she was married to a passive boy, me, for almost a decade, I think. Even as I read through what a man is through Scripture, I started realizing, \u201cI\u2019m not a man yet, and I\u2019m 25, 28 years old.\u201d That\u2019s why this conversation\u2019s so critical. I was that guy. So I know\u2014some of that\u2019s just\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s funny, honey; I wasn\u2019t even thinking of you, but\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I know. But I\u2019m sitting here thinking, \u201cThat\u2019s part of what she\u2019s feeling; she had to be strong because her man wasn\u2019t.\u201d\n\nI think the beauty that we get about today is I became a man. She was part of the process, she watched it. But when we got married, I thought I was a man, like so many do, and I wasn\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, as we have this conversation\u2014and we\u2019re going to introduce our guest here in just a minute, but\u2014Ann, do you think wives and moms, single women, want men to step up and reassert themselves as men and say, \u201cI\u2019ll protect you,\u201d or do they want men to go, \u201cYou\u2019re a capable woman; you can protect yourself\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think women long for men to be beside them in the battle. I think women feel like we are in the battle, and we\u2019ve been battling, sometimes, alone, and we want men there, because men are strong, and they carry a peace that we don\u2019t carry, which is beautiful.\n\nSo I think every woman listening is like, \u201cI want that,\u201d but there\u2019s also another part of them that thinks, \u201cWill my husband ever become that, or will\u2014\u201d you know, \u201cI\u2019m a single mom. Will my son ever experience a man that will pull that out of him?\u201d So that longing is absolutely there.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re talking about what makes a man a man this week, and Dave, we have your friend Brian Tome joining us. Brian, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you, great to be here.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Brian his a pastor from Cincinnati, Ohio at Crossroads Church\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 And I\u2019ll tell you, Bob (he\u2019s too humble to tell you this), it\u2019s one of the fastest-growing churches in the country.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 A lot of people coming to Crossroads.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 As a fellow pastor in ministry, it\u2019s such a joy to watch what God\u2019s done in you, Brian, and through you. You\u2019re a model for us. I mean, you started after us. It\u2019s like the student, you know, and we\u2019re the teacher, and it\u2019s like the student has gone way beyond the teacher; it\u2019s pretty cool.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Brian, as you sat down to write this book, <em>The Five Marks of a Man<\/em>, this was after a lot of years of processing this on your own and then presenting this to the congregation of Crossroads and then helping them grapple with these concepts. Was this because of your own lack of understanding about your own masculinity?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it was my personal needing to prove to the world myself that I was a man, and I didn\u2019t even know how to do that, didn\u2019t even know what a man was. I didn\u2019t want other males to go down the same barren road with no answers that I had gone through, just trying to prove and feel like we were men. That led me to deeper study and reflection, to try to help my son and give him a better start than I had.\n\nA verse that I think is really important for us is First Corinthians 16, verses 13 to 14. Let me read it to you. It says this: \u201cBe watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.\u201d\n\nNow, this is a great verse, and I think the five marks are all hinted at in here. First of all, \u201cact like men,\u201d is in the plural. Men are team players; boys are individual MVPs. That\u2019s one of the marks.\n\nIt also talks here about being watchful, being watchful about having a vision. A man has a vision; a boy lives day-to-day, doesn\u2019t have anything he\u2019s living for.\n\n\u201cStand firm in the faith.\u201d What is faith? Faith is something that you can\u2019t entirely prove; that\u2019s why it\u2019s called faith. You stand firm in it, and whenever there\u2019s something you can\u2019t entirely prove, you will be in the minority. Men take a minority position; boys always have to be in the majority.\n\n\u201cLet all that you do\u2026\u201d There\u2019s a sense of love that happens there, and we do this by working. You do when you work. Men work; boys don\u2019t want to work. All boys want to do is play.\n\nAnd it is to be done in love. This happens\u2014the greatest act of love was Jesus dying on a cross. What did He do on a cross for us? He protected us from having to pay for our sins forever. Men are protectors; boys are predators.\n\nSo I think that these five marks come up again and again; in every male that we all admire, they\u2019re all at least alluded to here in this passage, and every Bible hero at his best, when you see them, they have these five marks.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, let\u2019s take some time going through these and just unpacking them for guys. You said that a boy lives day-to-day, a man has a longer-term vision. Just explain that a little bit.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, let\u2019s use my own loser life for a moment if we could. [Laughter]\n\nI was in college for seven years, and I didn\u2019t train to be a doctor. Seven years! Seven years to get a four-year degree. That\u2019s part of what happens when your parents value education and they pay for your college. I would drop classes because I didn\u2019t want to go to the final, and have to repeat Accounting I again. I took Accounting I three times! Three times. I had a sterling 2.25 GPA in high school. Do you know why I did those things that I\u2019m really embarrassed by? It\u2019s because I didn\u2019t have a vision.\n\nMy son one time was upset about the homework he was doing, and he said, \u201cThis is stupid. I don\u2019t know what I\u2019m doing this. I\u2019m never going to have to use this.\u201d I looked at him and said, \u201cYes, you\u2019re right, you\u2019re never going to have to use that.\u201d He looked at me like he had me busted. He was like, \u201cWell, then why am I doing this?\u201d\n\nI said, \u201cYou\u2019re not necessarily going to use geometry, but what you\u2019re doing right now is you\u2019re getting a sheepskin that\u2019s going to open up opportunities to you in the future.\u201d\n\nNo one told me that. No one told me\u2014I didn\u2019t like school, I didn\u2019t see what the point of it was. I didn\u2019t have a vision. School\u2019s all about a vision. I\u2019m going to do something I don\u2019t want to do today so I can have a better tomorrow.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 So Brian, if I\u2019m a 12, 13, 14-year-old boy and I come to you as a spiritual man in my life, or a pastor, coach\u2014you name it\u2014and I say, \u201cGive me the long game. I don\u2019t know what it is. What is a vision I should have? What\u2019s a vision a man has?\u201d A boy doesn\u2019t have it, a man does. What is it?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Whatever your vision is right now, it\u2019s probably going to change, but you need to have something right now that\u2019s going to help you endure difficulty tomorrow. For some of us, it\u2019s a simple vision of, \u201cI\u2019m going to get through school,\u201d and then we get another vision. Others of us\u2014I\u2019ve talked with one guy that said, \u201cMy vision is going to be, I\u2019m going to be the first person in my family who will never have a divorce.\u201d That\u2019s a vision.\n\nWe\u2019re not talking here about, \u201cWe\u2019re going to revolutionize the tech world and start the next Apple.\u201d Maybe you want to, and maybe you can do that; that\u2019s great. We\u2019re just talking about something in your mind that\u2019s going to take time to get there and gives you reason for why you\u2019re going through difficulty right now.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 So it\u2019s goals. It\u2019s setting short- and long-term goals that will affect your life in the future.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, though I\u2019ve never set a goal in my life, so\u2026\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 What\u2019s a vision? Why that word?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, just goal\u2014I think goal does tell us, you know, \u201cBy this date, I\u2019m supposed to have this many of that.\u201d I\u2019m okay with that; I\u2019m not saying we shouldn\u2019t do that. But there has to be a burn, there has to be an internal burn that just says, \u201cThat\u2019s where I\u2019m going. I\u2019m going to go through this briar patch here because that fuzzy thing\u2014I think that\u2019s a mountaintop over there\u2014I\u2019m going to go to that, and therefore I\u2019m going to go through the briar patch.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, and I would suggest to you here, too, that one of the differences between a man and a boy is a boy can have a vision where he\u2019s thinking, \u201cThis is the goal, this is what I\u2019m aspiring to,\u201d but at the end of it, it\u2019s\u2014I\u2019m doing it for me. I\u2019m doing it for my own self-satisfaction, for my own benefit. I\u2019m not thinking of others, and I\u2019m not thinking of the glory of God in the midst of this; I\u2019m just doing this because when I get there, when I have the toy, I want the Ferrari, or I want the Condor, or I want this. You\u2019re still a boy if you have a vision but it\u2019s all about you.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Very insightful, I would like to just be one of rare people that says here right now, it\u2019s crazy how many of us think of Samson as a Bible hero. Samson is not a Bible hero. He is a boy. He is an utter boy. Everything is done for him; his sexual urges, his grooming habits. At the end of his life, he said, before he pushed over those pillars, he says, \u201cLet me take vengeance for me,\u201d is basically what he says. It\u2019s not about the glory of God, it\u2019s not about the reputation of Israel; it\u2019s about him.\n\nSo yes, a boy can have some vision that sounds great about starting a new .com, but one of the marks of a man is a man who\u2019s a team player; a boy plays for MVPs. So, a vision must have others engaged and the recipients, or else you\u2019re being a boy.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, when is a moment in your life where you have rejected, overcome passivity as a boy and taken a courageous stand or move to be a man?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 The ones in the book I talk about were taking a stand to help those in generational poverty in the city of Cincinnati and having people in our church upset that we had bought property, and they thought it was going to hurt their property values, and seeing people picket our church. I mean, that was a minority position; took a stand. Took a stand\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, wait. Generational poverty\u2014what were you doing there?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 We built a center called the Citylink Center; it was a ten-million-dollar facility that we built, and then we funded a million dollars a year ongoing, and we brought a bunch of social services into one house so those in poverty wouldn\u2019t have to go all over the city; there\u2019d be a one-stop shop to help them and mentor them to wholeness.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Was it fearful for you to step out and say, \u201cLet\u2019s do this\u201d?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, yes; for one, where\u2019s the ten million dollars going to come from? Where\u2019s that going to come from?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 There is that.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Second, when you have picketers out front picketing your church, that\u2019s not a fun time.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Mm-hmm.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 But was being a minority, taking a stand.\n\nHow will I parent my kids is another one. I took my daughter and my son to a Reds game. They were seven and five. They\u2019re seven and five, we\u2019re at a Cincinnati Reds game. I gave them some money; I said, \u201cI want you to go back and I want you to get me a Coke and a hot dog; get yourself anything you want, too.\u201d\n\nThey looked at me like, \u201cWhat?\u201d I said, \u201cJust walk up this aisle, go back up the aisle, go there and stand in line.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Seven and five.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Seven and five. Now, if we were in the Bronx I don\u2019t know if I would have, but Cincinnati in 1997 was pretty serene. So they took off, and they came back with that hot dog and that Coke, and I\u2019ll tell you what, they grew that day.\n\nThe stuff that I would do to my kids, people judged me all the time. You have to get used to taking a stand, you have to get used to being in the minority position, because where the majority\u2019s going is not that good, and the fruit isn\u2019t that sweet.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is interesting; you have a vision for boys to become men, for girls to become women; I mean, that\u2019s part of it in this minority position as well. It\u2019s interesting, in the section in the book about taking the minority position, you get into the whole thing of integrity as well. So, how does that play out? As you\u2019re raising these kids, and even you and me as a man, how do we live with wholeness?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, it starts with us. I\u2019ll just do my latest confession\u2014this is just a morning, honestly, this morning repentance.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Like, today?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, today; literally this morning.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay. Alright.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 So yes, Brian Tome has boy moments. I live in this place where there\u2019s a bunch of acreage around it, and you\u2019re not allowed to hunt in the acreage. We kind of share the acreage, and you\u2019re not allowed to hunt in it. I\u2019ve never hunted before, but all of a sudden I said, \u201cI want to go hunt something and eat it, and I have this property right behind my house!\u201d So I got this crossbow\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did you do this this morning?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, I didn\u2019t kill it this morning. I\u2019ve killed and eaten two deer in the last six weeks; pulled them out of the woods, that stuff.\n\nSo, a friend of mine, just yesterday, who lives in the same plan, said, \u201cHey, just tell me how you\u2019re processing doing what\u2019s against the rules.\u201d I said, \u201cWell, that\u2019s a good question. This isn\u2019t the section where there\u2019s the walk-in trails.\u201d That\u2019s what I said.\n\nThis morning I was reading\u2014I had my quiet time in Romans 13, and it talks about honoring authorities, not violating your conscience, inviting the wrath of God. God just spoke to me really clearly [about] not honoring the authority of that land, because it shouldn\u2019t be happening.\n\nSo I\u2019m emailing an apology, and a repentance email\u2019s going out. Man, that was a boyish move, man. Boys always have an excuse to bend the rules and to violate right and wrong, and right there I had done it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Where does a man get the foundation to take a minority position?\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think we get inspired, Dave, by seeing other people do it. That\u2019s part of why I just confessed that. Not only is confession good for the soul, but maybe someone\u2019s going to listen to that and be inspired by it. I know I\u2019m inspired when I see other people making strong confession and make strong moves. I mean, you talked about Kensington, the church where you cut your teeth and where you served. I would regularly come and just hang around Kensington Church, because I saw aggressive moves that you guys were making. It inspired me.\n\nWe need to see that with other men. We just need to be around other people who are lifting our highest level instead of pushing us down and lowering their expectations on us.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Which leads us further conversation about men needing men to become men.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s something that you\u2019ve needed in your own life, but you\u2019ve been pressing your boys to have those kinds of relationships and the men at your church. You really feel this is a high value for every guy.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, I\u2019m like Brian in terms of I\u2019m a vigilante on the stage with men. I\u2019m like, \u201cIf you\u2019re coming here more than six weeks and you haven\u2019t found some men to do life with\u2026\u201d I\u2019m yelling at them, you know. I\u2019m like, \u201cCome on!\u201d I want to call them out of boyhood to manhood, because we have to. It\u2019s true for women as well, no question, but men so often isolate ourselves, and we don\u2019t become men. We have to aggressively pursue it, go, find the men you need to do life with, and they\u2019re going to change your life.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 And we as women long for our men to be with other men.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 We really want that\u2014\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 You feel safe, actually. If your man\u2019s by himself, you feel very vulnerable.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, exactly. But when he\u2019s surrounded by good men, we push that. We want our husbands to do it. A lot of times they just don\u2019t want to.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, if a husband was to say to his wife, \u201cYou know, I\u2019m going to get a copy of this book they were talking about on the radio, <em>The Five Marks of a Man<\/em>, and just get together and with three or four other guys and go through it,\u201d you\u2019re saying a wife would go, \u201cI would love that\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 Our temptation is that we would be putting it beside the toilet. [Laughter] You know, \u201cPlease read this book! Please read it.\u201d Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But even if the guy\u2019s saying, \u201cThat means I\u2019m gone Thursday and you have to put the kids to bed and handle it yourself,\u201d a wife\u2019s going to go, \u201cI want you to have that time doing that\u201d?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely. Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ll add this. I\u2019ve been doing life with seven guys for 20 years, my best friends. There is never one time in our marriage where Ann has said, \u201cDon\u2019t spend time with those guys.\u201d She\u2019s pushing me out the door, because she knows I come back a better man, better husband, better dad.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 He\u2019s inspired. You\u2019re right, Brian; he\u2019s inspired by other men doing what God\u2019s called them to do.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, so, guys who are listening, get a copy of the book <em>The Five Marks of a<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>Man<\/em>, get together with some other guys, and go through this a chapter at time and have conversations about what\u2019s in this book. Wives who are listening\u2026do they get the book and put it by the toilet, or do they just pray, or what do they do? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think that\u2019s up to you guys. What should we do? What would you say?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ve read a few books by the toilet\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay. [Laughter] They just wound up there? You went, \u201cHow did this book get here?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cHow did that get there?\u201d My wife knows I spend some time there, so\u2014\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, one thing you definitely cannot do as a woman is you cannot make your husband feel like you\u2019re giving him an assignment. I wish we would respond better to challenge from our wives, but we generally don\u2019t, especially in the area of, \u201cYou need to be a better man,\u201d because that\u2019s how they\u2019ll interpret this. \u201cOh, you want me to have this book because I\u2019m really not being a\u2014\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\n<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 So you just have to be careful.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want to talk about that, too, the next time, because we as women need help in knowing how to do that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Alright, we\u2019ll see if we can get a chance to unpack some of that. Right now, let me tell our listeners how they can get a copy of Brian Tome\u2019s book, <em>The Five Marks of a Man: Finding Your Path to Courageous Manhood.<\/em> We have it on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call to order at 1-800-FLTODAY.\n\nIn addition to Brian\u2019s book, I want to encourage you to think about getting together with dads and sons this summer. If you have sons who are, I would say, 16 or older, plan 10 nights this summer when you are some of their friends and their friends\u2019 dads could all get together and have a cookout or do something and then sit down and watch each of the ten sessions that are part of the <em>Stepping Up<\/em> video series for men.\n\nThis is a great way for dads to interact with this material, but also for sons to begin to think about, \u201cWhat does it mean that God made me a man, and how am I supposed to respond to that? How do I embrace biblical masculinity and live that out?\u201d\n\nWe have copies of that video series available in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center; you can go online to order the kit that has the workbook and the videos and the copy of Dennis Rainey\u2019s book <em>Stepping Up<\/em>. Again, the information about how to order is available online at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order Brian Tome\u2019s book <em>The Five Marks of a Man<\/em>. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information, or call 1-800-FLTODAY if we can answer any questions for you or if you\u2019d like to order by phone. 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nYou know, Brian talked today about the importance of having a band of brothers, a tribe, a group of guys you get with where you\u2019re\u2014I hate to use the expression, but \u201cdoing life together,\u201d right? The President of FamilyLife, David Robbins, is here. You have a group like that, right?\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0 I do. I really can\u2019t imagine life without them. We dominoed into each other\u2019s lives spiritually in college, where I saw one of my close friends really start passionately pursuing the Lord, and over time it drew me and there were a few others that dominoed after me into each other\u2019s lives. As we graduated, we just kind of made this pact that \u201cwe want to keep this going.\u201d\n\nSo, sure enough, every May we get together, and there\u2019s a cost to it. There\u2019s a cost to our wives, there\u2019s a cost to getting there, but it is so worth it. If anything, Meg pushes me out the door, going, \u201cYou need this. I see what happens when you come back.\u201d\n\nWe\u2019re coming up on our 20<sup>th<\/sup> year this year, and you know, we keep it pretty simple. We talk throughout the year on some video calls, but when we get together we simply call it \u201cgoing around the horn,\u201d and each person gets a turn in the hot seat and has about an hour to really divulge anything good, bad, ugly in their lives. There\u2019s that safety and that vulnerability that\u2019s already established.\n\nSo we go there, and I just simply hear the conversation today and just go, if you don\u2019t have that, people want it. Every man wants it. Take the step of faith, take the risk, be the first to initiate; go there.\n\nIf you\u2019re the wife of a man, encourage him. Don\u2019t get in the way; push him toward it, especially if those friends intentionally push him towards Jesus.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 How many guys are in your group?\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0 We have six of us.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay. That\u2019s about a good size. You wouldn\u2019t want it much bigger than that.\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0 You end up just being limited on time to really do to the deep places beneath the surface that you need to go to.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, that\u2019s good. Thank you, David.\n\nYou know, conversations like this are important conversations to have, and those of you who are not just regular listeners, but those of you support the ministry of FamilyLife, either as regular monthly donors, Legacy Partners, or who make a one-time donation, you make all of this kind of conversation possible with your financial support.\n\nDuring the month of May, we\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry who have come to us and offered to match every donation we receive from listeners, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $550,000. We are very excited about this opportunity, and so we\u2019re asking <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners: would you either make a one-time donation, knowing your donation is going to be doubled, dollar for dollar, or would consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>?\n\nIf you do, every donation you make over the next 12 months will be matched, dollar for dollar, from this matching fund that\u2019s been established. In addition, we\u2019ll send you, as a thank-you gift, a gift card so you and your spouse or someone you know can attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. It\u2019s our thank-you gift for signing on as a new legacy partner.\n\nYou can find out more about becoming a legacy partner, or donate, or sign up online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call if you have any questions or you\u2019d like to take care of things by phone. Call 1-800-FLTODAY; 1-800-358-6329. Thank you for making practical, biblical help and hope available for your neighbors, for your friends, for people all around the world as you support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We appreciate you so much.\n\nAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow, when we\u2019re going to talk about how important it is for our picture of manhood to be understood biblically and not conditioned culturally. Brian Tome will join us again tomorrow; hope you can be here as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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