{"id":304977,"date":"2019-04-24T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-04-24T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/seven-wise-choices\/"},"modified":"2024-10-08T00:25:24","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T04:25:24","slug":"seven-wise-choices","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/seven-wise-choices\/","title":{"rendered":"Seven Wise Choices"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Ron and Jody Zappia | Series: The Marriage Knot | Pastor Ron Zappia and his wife, Jody, had a marriage that almost unraveled after the first year. After giving their lives to Christ, however, they decided to give the marriage another chance. The Zappias share seven principles that, if faithfully practiced, will tighten the marriage knot and bring couples closer together.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tWe&#8217;re giving a 40% discount on FamilyLife&#8217;s Weekend to Remember\u00ae\u00a0with a Dave and Ann Wilson special offer to celebrate the new hosts of FamilyLife Today\u00ae.<br \/>\nRegister before Monday, April 29, and use the promo code: SignMeUp.\u00a0 \u00a0Go to familylife.com\/weekend-to-remember.<br \/>\n \tPurchase\u00a0The Marriage Knot and Vertical Marriage at a special savings and receive a free copy of FamilyLife&#8217;s Building Your Marriage to Last Couples Study.<br \/>\n \tThe Marriage Knot: 7 Choices that Keep Couples Together by Ron and Jody Zappia.<br \/>\n \tLearn more about becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Ron and Jody Zappia&#8217;s marriage almost unraveled after the first year, but they gave their lives to Christ and their marriage another chance. The Zappias share seven principles that bring couples closer together.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-04-24.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:47","filesize":"25.43M","filesize_raw":"26668367","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2908,2860,2903],"tags":[4377,6590,5983,6589,6591],"podcast_series":[8266],"cwp_profile":[9522],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304977","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-forgiveness","category-hardship-and-suffering","category-infidelity","tag-affair","tag-choosing-forgiveness","tag-christ-centered-marriage","tag-marriage-falling-apart","tag-marriage-restored","podcast_series-the-marriage-knot","cwp_profile-ron-and-jody-zappia","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304977\/seven-wise-choices","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304977\/seven-wise-choices","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"y9wyjBG0Hf\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/seven-wise-choices\/\">Seven Wise Choices<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/seven-wise-choices\/embed\/#?secret=y9wyjBG0Hf\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Seven Wise Choices&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"y9wyjBG0Hf\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Ron and Jody Zappia's marriage almost unraveled after the first year, but they gave their lives to Christ and their marriage another chance. The Zappias share seven principles that bring couples closer together.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-04-24.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, April 24<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Jody Zappia learned, early on, that if she was ever going to rebuild trust with her husband after betrayal, she was going to have to learn how to trust God first. We\u2019ll hear more about that today. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I don\u2019t know if you guys know about what happened during the Zappia\u2019s wedding\u2014the couple, who are joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back, guys.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s good to be here.\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you know about the smoke?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It sounds like an interesting story.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; tell us what happened.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I want to know.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I won\u2019t tell you about it. We\u2019re going to let Ron and Jody Zappia tell you about it, here, in just a minute. I\u2019m going to introduce them.\n\nFirst, I want to remind listeners about the special going on this week\u2014the Dave and Ann Wilson special\u2014to celebrate you guys as our new hosts on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s nice.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got 16 <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways happening the rest of this spring. Our team said, \u201cLet\u2019s do a Dave and Ann Wilson one-week special, where listeners can sign up for any of the remaining getaways and save 40 percent of the regular registration fee.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ooh.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s good.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They just have to call or go online for more information. Find out when a getaway is coming to a city near where they live and register\u2014take advantage of the special offer. It\u2019s this week only. So, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about the 40 percent off Dave and Ann Wilson special for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. Of course, this is our two-and-a-half-day getaway for couples, where you can learn more about God\u2019s design for building a strong, healthy marriage relationship. All the details are available, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call if you have any questions at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nNow, let me introduce our guests, Ron and Jody Zappia. They are the authors of the book, <em>The Marriage Knot: 7 Choices that Keep Couples Together<\/em>. Ron is a pastor at Highpoint Church in suburban Chicago. The Zappias have been married since 1989. They\u2019ve got three kids, and something happened at the wedding; right?\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Oh, I think you\u2019re talking about our unity candle moment. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, no.\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Yes; thankfully, somebody had the forethought to make veils non-flammable\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014because my veil started smoking. I accidentally\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Oh, no, Jody; it was on fire.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No!\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Yes; there was a little smoke.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> The veil was on fire. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> There was a little melting. Thankfully, it didn\u2019t torch.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you smell it?\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> I had long, permed hair.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; I could\u2014you could <em>see<\/em> it. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Yes; so thankfully,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> It was going up.\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014yes; his cousin was ready to jump\u2014he saw it go down. I didn\u2019t even notice at first, but it snuffed out my candle before we even could light the\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> The veil did; yes.\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014unity candle.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, did you stop, drop, and roll? Is that what you did? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Well, we were\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> We were close.\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014because his cousin was about to tackle me.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Let\u2019s just say it\u2014with our story, our marriage was about to go up in flames. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s the metaphor I was going for right there. The marriage\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I stole it from you.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve already heard this week about, really, a remarkable story. The first six months of your marriage, you guys were living in separate cities because of business things.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It eventually ended up with\u2014Ron, you having an affair. That brought you to a local church for some counseling. The pastor said, \u201cBefore we talk about your marriage, we\u2019re going to talk about Jesus.\u201d You both came to faith in Christ, and God began a new journey of restoring.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The fact that you\u2019re still here together\/the fact that you\u2019re pastoring a local church is evidence of the grace of God,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014from almost three decades ago now, as you guys sat in that church and were confronted by that pastor.\n\nThe book you\u2019ve written, <em>The Marriage Knot<\/em>, has seven choices that you say will keep couples together. Can you just run through some of those?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> The analogy here\u2014we didn\u2019t come up with the knot; but if you think about it\u2014like, knots loosen over time if they are not checked\/if they are not tightened. So, the picture that we have is of the marriage knot\u2014that these are the choices that you need to make to <em>tighten<\/em> the marriage knot.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cThis will hold you together.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; that is the picture of what <em>holds<\/em> us together. You know, we didn\u2019t just make these up; these are some things that we learned.\n\nPeople are under the impression that somebody has the perfect marriage, down the street or whatever it is. You know, <em>any<\/em> marriage is in danger of loosening. These are the choices that couples need to <em>make<\/em> in order to tighten and strengthen the marriage knot.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> At our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways, we say that <em>all<\/em> marriages are drifting toward isolation.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They are drifting toward looser knots; right?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; totally; totally.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s a decision\/it\u2019s a choice you make to tighten the knot to come back toward oneness. So, what\u2019s one of those choices, Jody?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Can I ask you to go to the first choice: \u201cChoose to grow spiritually\u201d? What does that look like?\u2014because you guys have already talked a little bit about\u2014started to grow spiritually. How do you do that? Jody, how did you, specifically, do that when it came to forgiveness?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Yes; that was one of the very first, big faith steps that I needed to take. I describe it as a faith step, because it did feel like I was kind of walking off a ledge. It felt very risky to forgive and even more risky was the idea of trusting Ron\u2014staying married. I remember coming to the point, where: \u201cYou know, I do think I can forgive. I\u2019ve just been forgiven\u201d; but I didn\u2019t want to stay married. I didn\u2019t think that equaled: \u201cDo I still have to stay married to him?\u2014because I don\u2019t trust him.\u201d\n\nWhat was interesting is\u2014in this growing spiritually, the first thing that had to happen\u2014and the assignment I had been given was to start: \u201cWell, you have a new relationship with God, and you need to work on that.\u201d The first thing I needed to deal with God was whether I trusted Him because, honestly, I had this answer to prayer, which wasn\u2019t an answer I had wanted. I basically found out my husband was having an affair, and it was still fresh; it was <em>shocking<\/em> to me. I wasn\u2019t sure if I trusted God.\n\nHe was\u2014I felt like, maybe, He was being a little harsh. Yet, I know I needed to answer that question; because what became apparent to me was that God wasn\u2019t really asking me to <em>trust<\/em> Ron. God told me to <em>love<\/em> Ron; but the flip side of that was\u2014but who was I supposed to trust then? He was asking me to trust <em>Him<\/em>. It took me about a two-week period of asking God, daily: \u201cCan I trust You? Do I trust You? Should I trust You? Can I trust You?\u201d I was seeing Ron changing, and I was deciding I wanted to change: \u201cCould I change too?\u201d\n\nI remember there was a day when I just decided, \u201cAbsolutely; I can trust You.\u201d That opened the door; because now, it was kind of like: \u201cI don\u2019t know if Ron is going to continue on the path he is on. Like, right now, I know I\u2019m seeing some changes in him that I know he can\u2019t do himself,\u201d\u2014and that was really encouraging to me; but I thought\u2014\u201cEven if\u201d\u2014worst case scenario\u2014\u201cEven if he turns around and does this again, the difference is\u2014<em>now<\/em>, I\u2019ve got God; and He will tell me what to do.\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We will often talk about first step in a spiritual relationship as trusting Jesus.\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That is a one-time choice, but it is an ongoing choice that you make every day: \u201cI\u2019m going to keep trusting Jesus. I\u2019m going to trust Him today.\u201d So, the declaration is: \u201cThis is the new trajectory of my life that I will trust Jesus.\u201d But you have to make that choice over and over again; don\u2019t you?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Yes; and really, all of these choices are like that. They are choices that we need to intentionally make over and over, day after day.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How do you two grow\u2014choice number one\u2014spiritually together? Is that something you do together? What does that look like?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; well, you know, just to back the bus up and say it like this\u2014for us, it was about religion; and we didn\u2019t have a relationship with God. So, a relationship with God through marriage crisis; and it brought us to Him. We began learning things, and these choices began developing out of us reading God\u2019s Word. It was really important for us to get involved in a church, where we were learning truth\u2014biblical truth\u2014and sitting there and hearing the principles. All of these choices\u2014which we\u2019ll get to some of the other ones\u2014all of these choices are really grounded in biblical truth that we didn\u2019t know.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And to think that you can grow spiritually, as an individual or as a couple, apart from active engagement with a local church\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014is just foolishness.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And let me just\u2014when I say, \u201cactive involvement,\u201d I don\u2019t mean you show up twice a month, and you say: \u201cWell, I\u2019m actively involved. I\u2019m a member of my local church.\u201d No; I\u2019m talking about engagement\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014with other people. I\u2019m talking about it being central.\n\nYou\u2019re smiling here, Pastor; right? You agree with this?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and it\u2019s actually proven, statistically.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s a pretty unknown statistic. I\u2019ve actually quoted it, myself, from the pulpit <em>wrongly<\/em>. You know, you say, \u201cWhat\u2019s the divorce rate in the church?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Most people say, \u201cSame as in the non-churched\u201450 percent.\u201d Then, when you do the research, it <em>never<\/em> was 50 percent\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in the church. It\u2019s like 23 percent. It\u2019s still higher than you would want, but much lower than\u2014so, what\u2019s that mean? That means: \u201cIf a couple is actively involved...\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Sure.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And again, I think it\u2019s so key\u2014I don\u2019t just show up once a month. I decide to take a step and grow spiritually <em>in community<\/em> with others. Then, it\u2019s going to affect <em>everything<\/em>\u2014but especially my marriage.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here is the key to that statistic that you are quoting. If you say, \u201cWhat\u2019s the divorce rate in the church?\u201d it\u2019s one number. If you ask, \u201cWhat\u2019s the divorce rate among people, who attend church weekly\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand who pray together?\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014you ask that question, it goes down to like 2 percent.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; drastically; yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of the keys\u2014the reason you show up is community. You can\u2019t do a <em>Lone Ranger<\/em> marriage\u2014even just you and your spouse\u2014and that\u2019s in your book as well. It\u2019s like it is so important. You\u2019ve got to be surrounding yourself with other couples.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Hey, you guys started out with <em>no<\/em> friends.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; for us, we got involved so much so\u2014as soon as we got saved, we got ourselves into a small group. Then, we went through it <em>together<\/em>. Then, we were <em>leading<\/em> a group.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I <em>love<\/em> it\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> So, quickly\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which some people are saying: \u201cI could never do that. I don\u2019t <em>know<\/em> enough to lead.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; I would say, \u201cJump in and rely on the Spirit and rely on God.\u201d If you\u2019ve got some good trusted leaders that you can go to and help\u2014you know, sometimes, we think, because we\u2019re damaged or going through difficulty, we can\u2019t be used by God. That\u2019s so false and so wrong.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Your spiritual growth <em>accelerated<\/em> when you were leading\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014more than when you were attending.\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Correct.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> And that\u2019s the grow, spiritually. It accelerated, because we got ourselves involved. Now, we\u2019re not saying, \u201cQuit your job and go to seminary and become a pastor and pastor\u2019s wife\u201d; but if you want to grow spiritually, there\u2019s nothing you can do that\u2019s greater than\u2014what?\u2014certainly spending time with God and getting close to Him, individually and as a couple\u2014praying together\/talking about what you\u2019re learning\u2014but <em>serving<\/em> other people is so important.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And how great a story\u2014as I\u2019m listening to this\u2014to think, \u201cThere is somebody out there\u2014is listening, going: \u201cI can\u2019t be used by God. My darkness\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cmy sin and the past is too great.\u201d And I\u2019m sitting across from a couple\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014the greatest sin in your life\u2014God is using you in a great big way. I want to say to that listener out there: \u201cJust surrender and leave it to God. He\u2019s going to do something absolutely powerful with your story,\u201d\u2014just like He is in you guys\u2019.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Pick just one other of the seven choices\u2014like if you had to zero in and say, \u201cThis is one, where\u2026\u201d\u2014they are all significant; but what\u2019s one that you just say\u2014\u201cThis is the one I\u2019d want to drive home\u201d?\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Well, I know that communication is a pretty huge one.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> So, we have \u201cChoose to communicate respectfully.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What does that mean? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019ve\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Are you asking because you don\u2019t know, Ann? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She doesn\u2019t know. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> This is one you get to practice, like, all the time; right?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019ve been practicing a <em>very<\/em> long time.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Let me give us some statistics\u2014just to start us out. On average, married couples communicate only 27 minutes per week. I mean, think about that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014per week?!\n\n<strong>Ron<\/strong>: That\u2019s less than four minutes a day. So, what we need to do is\u2014we need to communicate respectfully. Oftentimes, for many couples\u2014for us too\u2014it involves learning how to handle conflict resolution. All these things are so critical in this critical choice.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And how do you talk\u2014for the couples that\u2019s like: \u201cWe\u2019ve got four kids.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cThey are all so close together; we can barely survive. We\u2019re both working; we don\u2019t have time to talk.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What would you say to them?\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Well, it takes intentionality\u2014like anything else\u2014and really recognizing that the <em>best<\/em> thing you can do for your kids is to have a strong marriage and to make that investment in each other.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> You know, you have to be targeted at making time for one another so that you <em>can<\/em> communicate. The fact is that, many times, what will happen is\u2014you\u2019ll have many things that you have to talk about, whether it\u2019s dropping the kids off, picking up, doing this\u2014all these tasks and all these things.\n\nAnd I know you guys recognize and have been through <em>all<\/em> these different stages as well; but if you\u2019re not taking time, communicating deeply from the heart about what is happening\u2014your feelings, what you want, what you see, what your dreams\/what your goals are\u2014I mean, those are pivotal conversations that husbands and wives need to make time to have those conversations.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you added a word, respectfully,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to the communication process. How do you do that, and why did you add that word?\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> Well, we ended up coming up with kind of a creative way of doing it. We called it the \u201cTen Commandments of Communication.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cHealthy Communication.\u201d\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cHealthy Communication.\u201d So, within there, there are quite a few. When you talk about respectfully, like we can so quickly\u2014it\u2019s easy to tear down with our words.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> It doesn\u2019t take a lot of thought. In fact, it happens when you don\u2019t <em>think<\/em> before you speak. So, one of the ten commands would be: \u201cChoose your words carefully.\u201d These all come right from Scripture\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Sure.\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014so like James, Chapter 1, verse 18 and 19 says, you know: \u201cBe quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger.\u201d So, right there, you\u2019ve got like a little equation. If we\u2019re doing those first two things\u2014if we\u2019re listening intently and we\u2019re responding slowly\u2014oftentimes, that takes care of that third one\u2014it helps us to be slow to anger. Those would be three, right there, that come right out of that one verse\u2014it\u2019s just packed.\n\nBoy, if we\u2014the thing Ron and I had to learn, as we were growing spiritually and all that, was\u2014we would take these verses, and we were actually just trying to do it: \u201cOkay; well, it just says here that I am supposed to focus more on listening.\u201d Well, that was not something I naturally did. I remember having to work on that and like not interrupt him. Ron had to work on\u2014when I was talking\u2014not solving my problem real quickly; but actually, listening to hear what was, maybe, behind it\/what was in between the lines.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You guys were catching on to something real quickly\u2014real early in your marriage\u2014that it took me a long time to catch onto; and that\u2019s this\u2014I would read my Bible; and I would read something like James 1: \u201cBe quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger.\u201d I would think: \u201cThat\u2019s how we should treat one another in the local church.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cThis is how we should get along, as Christians.\u201d I didn\u2019t think, \u201cAnd that\u2019s how I should deal with my wife.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I bet Mary Ann appreciated that. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I would read these \u201cone another\u201d passages\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and think, \u201cWell, that\u2019s how we\u2019re supposed to get along with our friends at church.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I would read them and think, \u201cThat\u2019s how <em>she<\/em> is supposed to act.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201c\u2026how she should get along with me\u201d? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cShe needs to listen to me more,\u201d and never would think, \u201cThis is written to <em>me<\/em>.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s interesting; because I think this was a problem for <em>me<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because whatever came into my head, I would say it. In whatever form it came into my head,\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014I would say it.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> In whatever form it came into my head, it\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014would come out of my lips that way. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; she would\u2014I was there.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I remember a day, realizing, \u201cI need to take this to God <em>first<\/em>; and I need to ask this question, \u2018God, should I say this?\u2019\u201d The second question is\u2014if He said, \u201cYes,\u201d\u2014and first of all, obey the first one. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But if He said, \u201cYes,\u201d the second question I had to ask God was: \u201cGod, <em>how<\/em> should I say it?\u201d That\u2019s\u2014\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201cWhen?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and \u201cWhen?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Exactly; there are several questions to take to God and, then, to listen and to wait for those.\n\nI think, in my younger years, I wasn\u2019t patient enough; and I wanted to get <em>my<\/em> way more than God\u2019s way.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve heard her on the phone with friends or other wives. I walk through the kitchen\u2014I hear her going: \u201cSo, tell me how you are going to say that. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. There\u2019s another way to do that. You can\u2019t say it like that.\u201d [Laughter] Again, you\u2019re sitting there, going, \u201cWow; people really do not know.\u201d They have to think: \u201cOkay; I\u2019ve got to think about this. I want to do this <em>respectfully<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cAnd it\u2019s going to look like this\u2026\u201d It\u2019s a great choice.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> All of us know, if you\u2019re speaking extemporaneously, you may put your foot in your mouth; but if you think through what you\u2019re going to say, then, you have a chance to communicate a little more carefully and a little more clearly.\n\nIf you were going to go sit down today\u2014and let\u2019s say we said, \u201cYou have an audience with the President. He wants\u2014he\u2019s going to give you a half hour, and he just wants to hear what\u2019s on your heart and wants to know what you think he should do in leading the country.\u201d You wouldn\u2019t go, \u201cI\u2019m just going to say the first thing that comes to my mind.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You spend time, going: \u201cWell, I should think about that. How would I prioritize it? How would I want to say it, respectfully to the President?\u201d because he\u2019s the president; right? We should do that with one another.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, Dave is the president in my life. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Not true! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There was a night\u2014you guys, I was working on this; because I was so bad at it. I remember this one night, he got in bed\u2014our church was fairly young\u2014and he got in bed, and he just moaned. He said, \u201cBoy, I\u2019m getting <em>so<\/em> many critiques lately about my sermons.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You guys, the first thought that came into my head was: \u201cWell, if you\u2019d spend more time with Jesus, your sermons would be better.\u201d [Laughter] I would have said that, back in the day\u2014I would have said it.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She <em>would<\/em> have said that.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I remember stopping\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and saying, \u201cGod, should I say that?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I knew, \u201cNo!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Jody said that to me on the way over. [Laughter] You guys have got to stop talking about us.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Hey, Jody, I\u2019ve got a book you should read\u2014it\u2019s called <em>The Marriage Knot<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So, the next question was: \u201cGod, how should I say this?\u201d This thought came into my mind\u2014I know that God put it there. I said to Dave: \u201cI can\u2019t imagine what it\u2019s like to be you\u2014to carry the responsibility of <em>thousands<\/em> of people\u2019s walks with God, based on your own walk. What a <em>heavy<\/em> burden that is for you. That\u2019s got to be <em>really<\/em> hard,\u201d\u2014not thinking anything of it. He pulls me over, hugs me, and he whispers in my ear\u2014what did you say to me that night?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I said, \u201cYou are my <em>life<\/em>.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The interesting thing, on my side, is\u2014I had no idea what her other thought was\u2014never came out. All I heard was that. I <em>needed<\/em> affirmation; and words have power,\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014as you said\u2014\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> They do\u2014to bless.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in this whole choice. That\u2019s why it\u2019s respectful. Those words powerfully\u2014I mean, it was like: \u201cYou\u2019re my partner. You\u2019re my completer. I want to do life with you. Thank you.\u201d That\u2019s a choice that\u2019s hard to make, but it is <em>life-changing<\/em> in a marriage.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here\u2019s what stands out to me\u2014we\u2019ve been talking about stuff that the Bible speaks to clearly.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It does.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And most of us read the Bible and kind of think of it in philosophical terms rather than in shoe leather, practical, \u201cOh, I\u2019m supposed to do this,\u201d\u2014like you guys were saying\u2014\u201cWe\u2019re supposed to be quick to listen; I\u2019ll start doing that more.\u201d\n\nThe Bible has a ton to say\u2014I mean, stop and think about this\u2014Jesus said, \u201cAll of the Law and the Prophets can be summed up in love God and love your neighbor.\u201d That means that the Bible\u2014everything in the Bible is about one of two things: \u201cHow do I love God?\u201d or \u201cHow do I love my neighbor?\u201d If you\u2019re closest neighbor is your spouse,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014then, as you read the Bible, you should say, \u201cOh, this is either about how I love God or how I love my wife,\u201d or \u201c\u2026my husband.\u201d\n\nNow, all of a sudden\u2014verses you may have skipped over before or thought: \u201cI\u2019m not sure what that means. How do I do that with my husband?\u201d\u2014so you read\/you get to the end of Ephesians 4: \u201cBe kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ\u2019s sake has forgiven you.\u201d And you think: \u201cOh, how do I do that today with my spouse? How can I be kind? How can I be tender-hearted? How can I <em>forgive<\/em> even as Christ has forgiven me?\u201d God has given us a <em>great<\/em> gift in His Word to say, \u201cHere, this is how life works.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Sometimes, the greatest act of worship that we can give God is loving our spouse. One of the things that I love about you guys, too, is that you read the Word; you did it\u2014it\u2019s beautiful.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s what hit me\u2014I was thinking: \u201cSo many people listening to your story\u2014it\u2019s almost easy to <em>miss<\/em> that part of it. It\u2019s like I could picture myself listening to this story and going, \u2018God healed their marriage, but he can\u2019t heal mine.\u2019\u201d\n\nThere are so many miracles in your marriage\u2014church across the street\/woman that you bump into and points you to this\u2014but here is what is the encouragement for everybody\u2014is you followed through, every step of the way. I mean, you could have walked across the street and said, \u201cI need help in my marriage.\u201d That woman tells you where to go, and you say,\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019m not doing that.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cEh, I\u2019m not going to do that.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You pick up the Word of God, you read a verse, and you say: \u201cEh, it\u2019s too hard.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019m going to hope Ron does it,\u201d \/ \u201cI\u2019m going hope Jody does it\u201d; but so, God has His part. It\u2019s so easy for us to just say, \u201cGod, You\u2019ve got to do this,\u201d and just sit there and\u2014\u201cNo, no, no; we cooperate.\u201d\n\nEverything Bob\u2019s saying is like: \u201cTo bear with one another, I have to take steps.\u201d I want to make sure listeners don\u2019t miss that: \u201cGod will heal your marriage,\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cbut you\u2019ve got to participate.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cAnd when you take a step, He\u2019ll meet you <em>right<\/em> there.\u201d\n\nHere\u2019s the other side of that: \u201cYou <em>can\u2019t<\/em> control your spouse,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> That\u2019s true.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cbut you can control you. If <em>you<\/em> take that step, God will meet you there; and a miracle is waiting on the other side of that obedience.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There are choices you can make. In fact, there are seven of them; right? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Jody:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> In the book, <em>The Marriage Knot<\/em>, you guys talk about seven choices. If somebody will say, \u201cI will choose to do these seven things\u2014whether my spouse does or not\u2014I will choose to do these seven things,\u201d\u2014you do that for a year; and then, write me and tell me this thing doesn\u2019t work\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014okay? If you will choose to live out these seven things, you talk about in the book, God will do a transforming work: first, in your heart and, then, in your marriage and in every other relationship you\u2019ve got.\n\nThank you, guys, for sharing your story with us\/for sharing your wisdom with us, and for being guests, here, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Oh, thank you so much for letting us be here.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The book we are talking about is <em>The Marriage Knot: 7 Choices that Keep Couples Together<\/em>. We\u2019ve got copies of the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. This is a great companion to <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> by Dave and Ann Wilson. So, maybe, get both books when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com or, again, when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nThen, don\u2019t forget the Dave and Ann Wilson special that is going on this week in honor of our new hosts for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. This week only, you can save 40 percent off the registration fee for an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway if you register, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or if you call 1-800-FL-TODAY. We\u2019ve got\u2014I think it\u2019s 16 of these events still happening this spring. It\u2019s a great two-and-a-half-day getaway for couples.\n\nIf you register before the end of the week, you\u2019ll save 40 percent of the regular registration fee in honor of Dave and Ann Wilson. Just ask for more information about the Dave and Ann Wilson special for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY; or look for information, online, when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com. We hope you\u2019ll join us at one these upcoming getaways.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear from Dave and Ann Wilson about the rules for courtship and marriage and how the old rules don\u2019t work. The old rules are really the new rules\u2014not the really old\u2014well, we\u2019ll explain it all tomorrow; okay? I hope you can join us.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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