{"id":304954,"date":"2019-04-09T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-04-09T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/healing-from-sexual-abuse\/"},"modified":"2025-05-09T17:31:14","modified_gmt":"2025-05-09T21:31:14","slug":"healing-from-sexual-abuse","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/healing-from-sexual-abuse\/","title":{"rendered":"Healing From Sexual Abuse"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Brother and sister Jessica Thompson and Joel Fitzpatrick explain why it&#8217;s important to talk to your children about sex. Joel talks honestly about the sexual abuse he suffered at the hands of a distant family member, which began around the age of 6, and the shame, confusion, and guilt it caused in his heart. Though the abuse did skew his thinking about sex, Joel tells how God renewed his mind and redeemed his pain.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Siblings Jessica Thompson and Joel Fitzpatrick explain why it&#8217;s important to talk to your children about sex. Joel talks honestly about the sexual abuse he suffered at the hands of a distant family member.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-04-09.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:53","filesize":"25.53M","filesize_raw":"26770458","date_recorded":"2019-04-09 11:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2815],"tags":[6570,4240,4374,2385,6331],"podcast_series":[8264],"cwp_profile":[8825,9514],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304954","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-sexual-wholeness","tag-conversations-with-your-kids","tag-guilt","tag-sexual-abuse","tag-shame","tag-talking-to-your-kids-about-sex","podcast_series-mom-dad-whats-sex","cwp_profile-jessica-thompson","cwp_profile-joel-fitzpatrick","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304954\/healing-from-sexual-abuse","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304954\/healing-from-sexual-abuse","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"IszvOHJpDb\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/healing-from-sexual-abuse\/\">Healing From Sexual Abuse<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/healing-from-sexual-abuse\/embed\/#?secret=IszvOHJpDb\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Healing From Sexual Abuse&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"IszvOHJpDb\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-04-09.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-04-09.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Joel Fitzpatrick was sexually abused when he was a child. Now, as an adult, he has looked at this phenomenon and wants to make sure his own kids are prepared and protected.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Abuse happens with people, who you\u2019re close to. It\u2019s not just some brand-new person off the street; it\u2019s someone who you\u2019re close to\u2014it\u2019s someone your kids are close to. Really defining that well for your kids helps to protect <em>them<\/em>. I mean, it\u2019s not the panacea\u2014right?\u2014it\u2019s not the thing that\u2019s going to keep them from ever having somebody abuse them. But what it does is\u2014it helps them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, April 9<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. Sexual abuse is not a new phenomenon\u2014it\u2019s been around since the beginning of time. And yet, it\u2019s something, as parents, we want to be alert to and do all we can to make sure our kids are protected. We\u2019re going to talk more about that today. Stay with us.<\/p>\n<p>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019re talking about one of the challenges we have as parents. But honestly, Dave and Ann, this is one of the great privileges we have, as parents, to be able to introduce our kids to one of the good gifts God has given us, as human beings, and to help them understand it in a wholesome, and healthy, and biblically-saturated\/gospel-saturated way. We\u2019re talking about human sexuality. A lot of parents are scared to death of this subject.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was going to say\u2014I think parents\u2014we are petrified\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because we don\u2019t know all of the answers. We don\u2019t know what our kids are facing, and this generation feels very different from the one we grew up in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I would add this\u2014I was excited, as a new dad, to get this opportunity. Was I scared?\u2014oh, yes. Did I know what I was going to say?\u2014not really. But I never had a dad\u2014never had a conversation with my dad about this <em>ever,<\/em> until maybe college, when he said, \u201cYes; get as many women as you can and have a good time.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I did. That\u2019s like one of the first conversations I can remember\u2014I\u2019m 20-some years old.<\/p>\n<p>You know, as I became a new dad, I remember having that thought: \u201cOh my gosh! The day\u2019s going to come when I get the privilege,\u201d\u2014like Bob said, \u201cIt\u2019s a privilege,\u201d\u2014yes. Do I know what I\u2019m going to do?\u2014no; but I will figure it out by the time he\u2019s six years old, and we can go to that field and talk about it. [Laughter] I was just like\u2014it was fearful; but it was also very exciting to think, \u201cI get to be the one to bring <em>truth<\/em> in a world of lies about a very important subject.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got a couple of friends joining us today. They\u2019re back to talk about this subject. Jessica Thompson and her brother, Joel Fitzpatrick, are joining us. Welcome guys.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jessica:<\/strong> Glad to be here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jessica\u2014our listeners know from her involvement in the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em><sup>\u2122<\/sup> video series. She and her mom have written some books, together, and have been guests before on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Joel\u2019s first time here; and this is your first book,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; it is my first book; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014written with your sister. You thought, \u201cLet\u2019s write a\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cLet\u2019s just dive right in the deep end. [Laughter] Let\u2019s just be as awkward as we possibly can be.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> The book is called <em>Mom, Dad\u2026What\u2019s Sex?: Giving Your Kids a Gospel-Centered View of Sex and Our Culture<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve got to start off here; because Joel\u2014for you to dive into this subject\u2014brings up some pain from your past.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; it really does. As I was growing up, there was a family member\u2014let me just say\u2014if you\u2019ve got kids now, and you\u2019re in the car with kids, then we\u2019re going to kind of dive into the deep end a little bit here; so just be aware of that.<\/p>\n<p>As I was growing up, there was a family member\u2014not in my immediate family\/kind of distant family, as usually is the case\u2014who molested me over a period of time\/multiple years, and it was hard. So like, growing up with that, there was a lot of <em>shame<\/em> around this topic.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> What age did this start?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> It started when I was around five\/six\u2014something like that\u2014went until I was about eight.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you feel that sense of shame, right away, as a five-year-old?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Not right away; no. It was weird, and it was awkward. I didn\u2019t\u2014like I knew what was going on was wrong. You know, there\u2019s that sense in which it\u2019s like, \u201cWell, I think other people know about this; so it must be like\u2014like I don\u2019t know what to do with this.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>This is something that parents need to talk to their kids about in a real way. Shame that\u2019s brought onto a person, because of the violation that\u2019s been done to them, is a <em>real<\/em> danger when it comes to this topic; because you think to yourself\u2014like, \u201cI\u2019m broken now\u201d; right? This is a lot of the problem with the way that people have talked about sex and sexuality in the past.<\/p>\n<p>For me\u2014hearing: \u201cHaving sex makes you broken,\u201d \u201cIt makes you dirty,\u201d\u2014I\u2019m like: \u201cWell, what about <em>me<\/em>? This wasn\u2019t something that I went and looked for. This is something that was done <em>to me<\/em> by someone else, and does that mean that I\u2019m broken? Does that mean that I\u2019m dirty? Does that mean that I\u2019m shameful to God?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think I can relate to that, because I have abuse in my background. There was a point where, not right away but after a while, I thought: \u201cIt must be <em>me<\/em>. There must be something wrong with <em>me<\/em>.\u201d It almost like transferred, and it just kind of locked into my heart. I don\u2019t think, as kids, we know what to do with that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel: <\/strong>No; and when you\u2019re told that sex is wrong, and sex is bad, and sex is a sin\u2014and then that happens to you\u2014the question is: \u201cWhat do you even do with that?\u201d I carried that\u2014I still carry it\u2014and praise God, when those thoughts of shame and guilt come up in me, praise God for the forgiveness of Christ; right? Praise God for a pastor, who looks at me every Sunday and pronounces, from the pulpit, that my sins are forgiven because of the work of Jesus for me. It still makes me cry every Sunday\/still makes me weep; because I\u2019m like, \u201cWow, could this really be true for <em>me<\/em>?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I think another important thing to say\u2014and we bring this up in the book\u2014is that, when stuff like that happens to you, like those are the sorts of people that Jesus uses to build His Kingdom.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> You know, you just read the biblical storyline, and it\u2019s like sexual sin doesn\u2019t disqualify you from being <em>used<\/em> by Christ to build His kingdom. That\u2019s such an important thing for parents to say to their kids. You see\u2014what shame does\u2014is shame makes you hide.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Good point.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Shame makes you say\u2014like, \u201cThis needs to be in the dark.\u201d And what the gospel does is\u2014the gospel comes in and just cranks on the spotlights. It exposes everything, and then Jesus takes it away. That gives you <em>real<\/em> freedom to do that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> When did this come to light with your family and your friends?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> It came to light a couple of years after it stopped. The person who did this got sent away. You know, but God providentially brought him back into my life while I was a pastor. I\u2019m walking in on a Saturday morning, thinking to myself: \u201cI\u2019m just going to church. No one is going to be here. I\u2019m going to hang my seminary degree on the wall. [Laughter] I\u2019m going to study my Bible and like really live into this pastor thing and lean into that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And there\u2019s the guy\u2014just at the door of the church. I invited him into my office. He and I sat, and we talked. I had to confront that all over again, inside of me, saying all of those\u2014like all that anger, all that fear, all that shame, all that guilt\u2014it just all came bubbling right back up to the surface again.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Was he there to repent?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> No, no; he wasn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> He was looking for a friend; so he thought he\u2019d come to this church, where I was just the pastor at. You know, God\u2019s providence is a funny thing\u2014it kind of exposes areas where you still need to do some business with Jesus. You know, I sat across the desk from him\u2014he was sitting on my couch\u2014I was sitting in my office chair, desk in between us.<\/p>\n<p>I had a really good chance, at that point, to minister the gospel to him and just say: \u201cLook, the only thing that\u2019s keeping me from climbing over this desk and killing you is knowing that Jesus loves me and knowing that I\u2019ve done things against Christ that would deserve eternal damnation. And yet, He forgives me; and He would forgive you, too, and so would I, if you\u2019d just asked. If you ask and you place faith in Christ, then He\u2019ll forgive [you] for all the things that you\u2019ve done\u2014not just to me\u2014but to a lot of people.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He couldn\u2019t even squeak out an \u201cI\u2019m sorry.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> He couldn\u2019t even\u2014he didn\u2019t even admit to doing what he did to me. At which point, I just said: \u201cWell, you know, there\u2019s not a lot that we have to talk about. I\u2019d just appreciate it if you don\u2019t come back here, because I need that distance from you.\u201d That\u2019s a hard thing to do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> How did God renew your mind about sex?\u2014because you start the book with this biblical God design of sex, which is a <em>beautiful<\/em> thing. That\u2019s where you start the book.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And yet, you come from the other side of that\u2014the dark side\u2014and to internalize that now, how\u2019d you get there?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; long time\/long time\u2014faithful pastors\/faithful friends, who I\u2019ve had this conversation with; faithful parents, who have loved me through this; a faithful sister, who has been my friend through it; and then, really\u2014really starting to say: \u201cI don\u2019t want my kids to grow up with this same view as me. I don\u2019t want the kids in my youth group to grow up with the same view as me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So, through all of that\u2014through really reading Scripture, reading a <em>ton<\/em> of books, talking to my seminary professors about this, talking to my wife about this\u2014I have a <em>beautiful<\/em> godly wife, who has helped me, so many days, as I\u2019ve been down, thinking about this stuff\u2014really being open with it. What that does is\u2014it allows you to actually process the feelings that are going on inside of you.<\/p>\n<p>This is why I would say: \u201cMen, you need friends. You need good, good friends, who will ground you in the gospel\u2014who will bring you back to that over and over again.\u201d \u201cWomen, you need good friends, who will do that for you.\u201d Because quite frankly, if we take what Jesus said seriously\u2014in the Sermon on the Mount: that if you lust, you\u2019ve committed adultery\u2014if we take that seriously, there\u2019s not one of us, sitting at this table or anywhere in the world, that isn\u2019t broken, sexually.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> So true.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Once we all kind of like say that\u2014right?\u2014then, we can start to talk about it. I mean, start to share the gospel with each other. We can say things like: \u201cYes; Joel, you\u2019ve been molested; but praise God\u2014Jesus is pure in your place; Jesus is holy in your place. While this <em>wasn\u2019t<\/em> your choice\u2014Jesus hates that [evil done against you]. He died to make you pure; He died to make you clean; He died to wash you. One day, this will be completely passed from you\u2014you won\u2019t ever have to think about this again.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, we\u2019re talking to tens of thousands\/maybe, hundreds of thousands of people, right now, who have had the experience that you\u2019ve had\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and who are reliving some of that as they hear you talk about this. Everybody we\u2019re talking to\u2014and this is where it gets back to the point that you made\u2014everyone we\u2019re talking to would say that \u201cThere\u2019s brokenness in my sexuality and in my past.\u201d We all have memories of actions, or thoughts, or whatever, where we\u2019d say there\u2019s shame attached to that\/there\u2019s guilt attached to that.<\/p>\n<p>If there\u2019s not a gospel, that will sink you; but <em>because<\/em> there is a gospel, the worst shame that anyone can feel\u2014I\u2019ve shared this with friends before: one of my favorite hymns that we sing at our church\u2014it\u2019s the great hymn, <em>Before the Throne of God Above<\/em>. I <em>love<\/em> the second verse that says:<\/p>\n<p>When Satan tempts me to despair,<\/p>\n<p>And tells me of the guilt within,<\/p>\n<p>And that happens to us; doesn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p>Upward I look, and see Him there<\/p>\n<p>Who made an end to all my sin.<\/p>\n<p>Because the sinless Savior died,<\/p>\n<p>My sinful soul is counted free,<\/p>\n<p>For God the just is satisfied<\/p>\n<p>To look on Him and pardon me.<\/p>\n<p>That good news brings liberation, and hope, and freedom, and the ability to function with joy in an area that, otherwise, we could be shut down completely.<\/p>\n<p>Because this is the thing\u2014when I\u2019m talking to people, where this has been a part of their experience\u2014one of two things: They either shut that side of their life off and say, \u201cI\u2019m not going near there,\u201d\u2014they get repressed; they get cold. Even in marriage, they don\u2019t want anything to do with sexuality. Or they get promiscuous to try to anesthetize\/try to kill the shame by overindulging.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Neither of those work\u2014both of those are destructive. The only thing that works is to remember the gospel in the midst of this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And as you\u2019ve said, the only way the gospel can be applied is\u2014you\u2019ve got to be honest with God and yourself, to say: \u201cI\u2019m going to go there. I\u2019m not going to stick it in a lockbox. I\u2019ve got to step into it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I think it would be interesting to hear your [Jessica\u2019s] perspective. What did you <em>see<\/em>?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and even his healing process.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> How did the gospel become real in his life?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jessica:<\/strong> So what I\u2019ve seen in Joel is this\u2014I\u2019ve seen Joel believe in the love and acceptance of a good Father. I have seen him push through this difficulty and, even, to write about it in the book. I know, when I first saw\u2014when we were writing, back and forth\u2014and I first saw that, I was like, \u201cOh, okay.\u201d It was a bit surprising to me, because it\u2019s <em>so<\/em> <em>painful<\/em> to open that up.<\/p>\n<p>What I\u2019ve seen in Joel is that what he says\u2014when he says: \u201cThe gospel is for the broken. The gospel is for the abused and the abuser,\u201d\u2014I know he believes that. I know that he has seen that to be true\u2014that Christ comes to the abused and the abuser. I mean, you look up the story of David and Bathsheba.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jessica:<\/strong> Christ comes for the one, who took advantage, and the one who, was taken advantage of.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jessica: <\/strong>I\u2019ve seen that healing in his life\u2014it\u2019s not a one-day thing. This is a life-long process of believing that truth over, and over, and over again. And that\u2019s what I\u2019ve seen in Joel.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; I think it\u2019s really important to say that\u2014if you\u2019re listening to this and you\u2019ve been abused\/that if you are an abuser\u2014that God loves you. Like your past doesn\u2019t define who you are. Christ\u2019s righteousness defines who you are\u2014God gets to do that.<\/p>\n<p>Thankfully\u2014like you were quoting in the song\u2014when God looks at us, He sees Jesus. He doesn\u2019t see Joel and all the ways that I reacted to it that were both\u2014well, all of them were pretty unhealthy; and then, some that were healthy\u2014He doesn\u2019t see that. What He sees is His child, who He loves and who He is well-pleased with. That\u2019s how God sees <em>you<\/em>, dear friend\u2014dear brother and sister.<\/p>\n<p>God sees you, and He <em>loves<\/em> you deeply. It pains Him what happened to you, but He hasn\u2019t left you alone. What He did was He sent His Son to die to prove His love for you. God Himself\u2014the Son\/the second person of the Trinity\u2014died to prove His love for you, and there\u2019s <em>nothing<\/em> that\u2019s going to separate you from that. It\u2019s like Romans 8 has become kind of my life chapter; right?\u2014no condemnation. God uses even terrible things; but yet, there is <em>nothing<\/em> that is going to separate you.<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019ve been molested or raped\u2014or abused in those ways\u2014if you\u2019ve been abused physically\/verbally\u2014nothing separates you from God\u2019s love\u2014not even your reaction to those things that have happened to you. God loves you. Your Father loves you and have hope\u2014have hope\u2014know the gospel is true for you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jessica:<\/strong> Right; and those things don\u2019t make you \u201cless than\u2026\u201d\u2014you\u2019re not \u201cless than\u2026\u201d because those things happened to you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you\u2019re not disqualified from talking to your kids\u2014back to the big picture\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jessica:<\/strong> Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014because I think a lot of parents, who have had whatever broken sexual experience, think, \u201cI can\u2019t talk to my kids about this,\u201d or \u201cThe shame is so great.\u201d Did you feel any of this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I was going to say, Bob\u2014I think what I did was I became almost paranoid\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014of not wanting my kids to experience that. Joel, how did you face that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, once again, I have a great lovely wife, who helps to temper me. I have a very, very\u2014like full-force personality\u2014so she helps in that a lot.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ve had real frank conversations with them [his children]. I\u2019ve told them, \u201cThis is who is allowed to touch you in these circumstances.\u201d A book, <em>God Made All of Me<\/em>, by Justin Holcomb\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014which, by the way, is a book we\u2019ve got available in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center; so listeners can get a copy of it. It\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> book for parents to read to kids.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; and really helps to set those boundaries, because you don\u2019t even think you need to talk about that sort of stuff\u2014but the reality is\u2014you <em>do<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>So often, I think that abuse happens with people, who you\u2019re close to\u2014it\u2019s not just some brand-new person off the street\u2014it\u2019s someone who you\u2019re close to. It\u2019s someone your kids are close to. Really defining that well for your kids helps to protect <em>them<\/em>. I mean, it\u2019s not the panacea\u2014right?\u2014it\u2019s not the thing that\u2019s going to keep them from ever having somebody abuse them. But what it does is\u2014it helps them.<\/p>\n<p>And then, also, saying, \u201cIf somebody ever does this\u2014even if they threaten you, even if they threaten me, even if they threaten your mother\u2014come talk to us about it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And pastors\u2014please, please call the police; let the authorities deal with this\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s what they do. If the person is innocent, then God bless them\u2014they\u2019ll be found to be innocent, and fantastic. And if not, then, that\u2019s why God gave us the state; right?\u2014to protect us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Thanks\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Joel\u2014let my wife go first. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Joel, I just wanted to thank you for sharing that, because it goes unspoken. So many people live in shame, and it still hasn\u2019t come out; so thank you for bringing it up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; you\u2019re welcome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it\u2019s interesting\u2014we are one\u2014I was going to say the <em>exact<\/em> same thing. It took courage, not only to address it in your life, but then to write about it and, now, to speak about it.<\/p>\n<p>I would also say this to anyone that is thinking this, right now: \u201cI\u2019m so broken. God\u2019s never going to use this part of my life. It\u2019s just going to be my little secret. I\u2019m just going to keep it there.\u201d God uses our woundedness to heal and then it becomes a gift\u2014I mean, you didn\u2019t write a book about being a youth pastor; you wrote a book about sex.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And that comes out of the pain that God said: \u201cI redeemed it. Now, I\u2019m going to use it as a gift to help redemption in other people.\u201d So thanks for that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And I think a lot of moms and dads are going to benefit from your transparency\u2014but also, from your wisdom and your focus\u2014as they think through: \u201cHow do we have these conversations with our kids about all the issues we face when it comes to sexuality?\u201d\u2014not just the potential for abuse\u2014but \u201cWhat does healthy sexuality look like? How does the gospel factor into that?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve got copies of your book, which is called <em>Mom, Dad\u2026What\u2019s Sex?<\/em> You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to request your copy; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the title of the book: <em>Mom, Dad\u2026What\u2019s Sex?:Giving Your Kids A Gospel-Centered View of Sex and Our Culture<\/em>. You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, this subject is a difficult subject to address. I know, for a lot of families, this is very real\/very personable. Our goal, here, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is to try to bring Jesus and the gospel to bear on what are often the painful issues we face in marriage and family. We want to provide practical biblical help and hope for whatever it is you\u2019re dealing with in your marriage and family relationships.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re able to do that because listeners, like you, say, \u201cThis is important\u2014not only for us\u2014but for others, here, in our community and all around the world.\u201d You make this ministry possible. Every time you make a donation, you\u2019re extending the reach of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We want to say, \u201cThank you for your support of this ministry.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>In fact, right now, if you can help with a donation, we\u2019d love to express our thanks by sending you Dave and Ann Wilson\u2019s new book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>. It\u2019s our thank-you gift to you when you support this ministry with a donation of any amount. You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation. We\u2019re grateful for your ongoing support of this ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Well, our conversation with Joel Fitzpatrick took a little different turn than we had expected\u2014a sober discussion on a difficult subject. The President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, is here with us. These are important conversations for us to have.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; indeed. I think the thing that stood out to me today is how amazing it is that God is using Joel in such a profound way to speak to others out of his own story\u2014a horrific, evil story that he has experienced\u2014but yet, in his own journey of being healed, and reconciled, and experiencing forgiveness\u2014he is ministering to others.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s 2 Corinthians 1; isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, God, as He comforts us, He gives us the ability to comfort others with that same comfort we have experienced. And this is what God, in His grace, does again and again.<\/p>\n<p>Perhaps you\u2019re processing Joel\u2019s story through the lens of your own pain. I simply want to first say: \u201cI\u2019m sorry for your pain\u2014it\u2019s legitimate.\u201d But I also want you to know that your woundedness is not the end of the story. We know from God\u2019s Word\u2014illustrated over and over, in the lives of Moses, and Jacob, and Joseph, and Ruth, and Esther, and David, and Paul, and today, in Joel\u2019s story\u2014that God takes sobering pain, caused by sin, and He transforms it to bring restoration and life to others. God is more than able to do that for you and me today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Beauty from ashes; right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. Thank you, David.<\/p>\n<p>Tomorrow, we\u2019re going to continue the conversation about how, as parents, we should engage with our children around the issue of sex so that we help them think, biblically, about what\u2019s ahead for them. I hope you can be with us for that.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. 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Jessica Thompson and Joel Fitzpatrick explain why it's important to talk to your children about sex. Joel talks honestly about the sexual abuse he suffered at the hands of a distant family member.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2019-04-09.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Joel Fitzpatrick was sexually abused when he was a child. Now, as an adult, he has looked at this phenomenon and wants to make sure his own kids are prepared and protected.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Abuse happens with people, who you\u2019re close to. It\u2019s not just some brand-new person off the street; it\u2019s someone who you\u2019re close to\u2014it\u2019s someone your kids are close to. Really defining that well for your kids helps to protect <em>them<\/em>. I mean, it\u2019s not the panacea\u2014right?\u2014it\u2019s not the thing that\u2019s going to keep them from ever having somebody abuse them. But what it does is\u2014it helps them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, April 9<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. Sexual abuse is not a new phenomenon\u2014it\u2019s been around since the beginning of time. And yet, it\u2019s something, as parents, we want to be alert to and do all we can to make sure our kids are protected. We\u2019re going to talk more about that today. Stay with us.<\/p>\n<p>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019re talking about one of the challenges we have as parents. But honestly, Dave and Ann, this is one of the great privileges we have, as parents, to be able to introduce our kids to one of the good gifts God has given us, as human beings, and to help them understand it in a wholesome, and healthy, and biblically-saturated\/gospel-saturated way. We\u2019re talking about human sexuality. A lot of parents are scared to death of this subject.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was going to say\u2014I think parents\u2014we are petrified\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because we don\u2019t know all of the answers. We don\u2019t know what our kids are facing, and this generation feels very different from the one we grew up in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I would add this\u2014I was excited, as a new dad, to get this opportunity. Was I scared?\u2014oh, yes. Did I know what I was going to say?\u2014not really. But I never had a dad\u2014never had a conversation with my dad about this <em>ever,<\/em> until maybe college, when he said, \u201cYes; get as many women as you can and have a good time.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I did. That\u2019s like one of the first conversations I can remember\u2014I\u2019m 20-some years old.<\/p>\n<p>You know, as I became a new dad, I remember having that thought: \u201cOh my gosh! The day\u2019s going to come when I get the privilege,\u201d\u2014like Bob said, \u201cIt\u2019s a privilege,\u201d\u2014yes. Do I know what I\u2019m going to do?\u2014no; but I will figure it out by the time he\u2019s six years old, and we can go to that field and talk about it. [Laughter] I was just like\u2014it was fearful; but it was also very exciting to think, \u201cI get to be the one to bring <em>truth<\/em> in a world of lies about a very important subject.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got a couple of friends joining us today. They\u2019re back to talk about this subject. Jessica Thompson and her brother, Joel Fitzpatrick, are joining us. Welcome guys.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jessica:<\/strong> Glad to be here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jessica\u2014our listeners know from her involvement in the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em><sup>\u2122<\/sup> video series. She and her mom have written some books, together, and have been guests before on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Joel\u2019s first time here; and this is your first book,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; it is my first book; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014written with your sister. You thought, \u201cLet\u2019s write a\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cLet\u2019s just dive right in the deep end. [Laughter] Let\u2019s just be as awkward as we possibly can be.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> The book is called <em>Mom, Dad\u2026What\u2019s Sex?: Giving Your Kids a Gospel-Centered View of Sex and Our Culture<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve got to start off here; because Joel\u2014for you to dive into this subject\u2014brings up some pain from your past.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; it really does. As I was growing up, there was a family member\u2014let me just say\u2014if you\u2019ve got kids now, and you\u2019re in the car with kids, then we\u2019re going to kind of dive into the deep end a little bit here; so just be aware of that.<\/p>\n<p>As I was growing up, there was a family member\u2014not in my immediate family\/kind of distant family, as usually is the case\u2014who molested me over a period of time\/multiple years, and it was hard. So like, growing up with that, there was a lot of <em>shame<\/em> around this topic.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> What age did this start?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> It started when I was around five\/six\u2014something like that\u2014went until I was about eight.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you feel that sense of shame, right away, as a five-year-old?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Not right away; no. It was weird, and it was awkward. I didn\u2019t\u2014like I knew what was going on was wrong. You know, there\u2019s that sense in which it\u2019s like, \u201cWell, I think other people know about this; so it must be like\u2014like I don\u2019t know what to do with this.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>This is something that parents need to talk to their kids about in a real way. Shame that\u2019s brought onto a person, because of the violation that\u2019s been done to them, is a <em>real<\/em> danger when it comes to this topic; because you think to yourself\u2014like, \u201cI\u2019m broken now\u201d; right? This is a lot of the problem with the way that people have talked about sex and sexuality in the past.<\/p>\n<p>For me\u2014hearing: \u201cHaving sex makes you broken,\u201d \u201cIt makes you dirty,\u201d\u2014I\u2019m like: \u201cWell, what about <em>me<\/em>? This wasn\u2019t something that I went and looked for. This is something that was done <em>to me<\/em> by someone else, and does that mean that I\u2019m broken? Does that mean that I\u2019m dirty? Does that mean that I\u2019m shameful to God?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think I can relate to that, because I have abuse in my background. There was a point where, not right away but after a while, I thought: \u201cIt must be <em>me<\/em>. There must be something wrong with <em>me<\/em>.\u201d It almost like transferred, and it just kind of locked into my heart. I don\u2019t think, as kids, we know what to do with that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel: <\/strong>No; and when you\u2019re told that sex is wrong, and sex is bad, and sex is a sin\u2014and then that happens to you\u2014the question is: \u201cWhat do you even do with that?\u201d I carried that\u2014I still carry it\u2014and praise God, when those thoughts of shame and guilt come up in me, praise God for the forgiveness of Christ; right? Praise God for a pastor, who looks at me every Sunday and pronounces, from the pulpit, that my sins are forgiven because of the work of Jesus for me. It still makes me cry every Sunday\/still makes me weep; because I\u2019m like, \u201cWow, could this really be true for <em>me<\/em>?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I think another important thing to say\u2014and we bring this up in the book\u2014is that, when stuff like that happens to you, like those are the sorts of people that Jesus uses to build His Kingdom.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> You know, you just read the biblical storyline, and it\u2019s like sexual sin doesn\u2019t disqualify you from being <em>used<\/em> by Christ to build His kingdom. That\u2019s such an important thing for parents to say to their kids. You see\u2014what shame does\u2014is shame makes you hide.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Good point.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Shame makes you say\u2014like, \u201cThis needs to be in the dark.\u201d And what the gospel does is\u2014the gospel comes in and just cranks on the spotlights. It exposes everything, and then Jesus takes it away. That gives you <em>real<\/em> freedom to do that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> When did this come to light with your family and your friends?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> It came to light a couple of years after it stopped. The person who did this got sent away. You know, but God providentially brought him back into my life while I was a pastor. I\u2019m walking in on a Saturday morning, thinking to myself: \u201cI\u2019m just going to church. No one is going to be here. I\u2019m going to hang my seminary degree on the wall. [Laughter] I\u2019m going to study my Bible and like really live into this pastor thing and lean into that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And there\u2019s the guy\u2014just at the door of the church. I invited him into my office. He and I sat, and we talked. I had to confront that all over again, inside of me, saying all of those\u2014like all that anger, all that fear, all that shame, all that guilt\u2014it just all came bubbling right back up to the surface again.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Was he there to repent?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> No, no; he wasn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> He was looking for a friend; so he thought he\u2019d come to this church, where I was just the pastor at. You know, God\u2019s providence is a funny thing\u2014it kind of exposes areas where you still need to do some business with Jesus. You know, I sat across the desk from him\u2014he was sitting on my couch\u2014I was sitting in my office chair, desk in between us.<\/p>\n<p>I had a really good chance, at that point, to minister the gospel to him and just say: \u201cLook, the only thing that\u2019s keeping me from climbing over this desk and killing you is knowing that Jesus loves me and knowing that I\u2019ve done things against Christ that would deserve eternal damnation. And yet, He forgives me; and He would forgive you, too, and so would I, if you\u2019d just asked. If you ask and you place faith in Christ, then He\u2019ll forgive [you] for all the things that you\u2019ve done\u2014not just to me\u2014but to a lot of people.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He couldn\u2019t even squeak out an \u201cI\u2019m sorry.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> He couldn\u2019t even\u2014he didn\u2019t even admit to doing what he did to me. At which point, I just said: \u201cWell, you know, there\u2019s not a lot that we have to talk about. I\u2019d just appreciate it if you don\u2019t come back here, because I need that distance from you.\u201d That\u2019s a hard thing to do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> How did God renew your mind about sex?\u2014because you start the book with this biblical God design of sex, which is a <em>beautiful<\/em> thing. That\u2019s where you start the book.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And yet, you come from the other side of that\u2014the dark side\u2014and to internalize that now, how\u2019d you get there?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; long time\/long time\u2014faithful pastors\/faithful friends, who I\u2019ve had this conversation with; faithful parents, who have loved me through this; a faithful sister, who has been my friend through it; and then, really\u2014really starting to say: \u201cI don\u2019t want my kids to grow up with this same view as me. I don\u2019t want the kids in my youth group to grow up with the same view as me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So, through all of that\u2014through really reading Scripture, reading a <em>ton<\/em> of books, talking to my seminary professors about this, talking to my wife about this\u2014I have a <em>beautiful<\/em> godly wife, who has helped me, so many days, as I\u2019ve been down, thinking about this stuff\u2014really being open with it. What that does is\u2014it allows you to actually process the feelings that are going on inside of you.<\/p>\n<p>This is why I would say: \u201cMen, you need friends. You need good, good friends, who will ground you in the gospel\u2014who will bring you back to that over and over again.\u201d \u201cWomen, you need good friends, who will do that for you.\u201d Because quite frankly, if we take what Jesus said seriously\u2014in the Sermon on the Mount: that if you lust, you\u2019ve committed adultery\u2014if we take that seriously, there\u2019s not one of us, sitting at this table or anywhere in the world, that isn\u2019t broken, sexually.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> So true.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Once we all kind of like say that\u2014right?\u2014then, we can start to talk about it. I mean, start to share the gospel with each other. We can say things like: \u201cYes; Joel, you\u2019ve been molested; but praise God\u2014Jesus is pure in your place; Jesus is holy in your place. While this <em>wasn\u2019t<\/em> your choice\u2014Jesus hates that [evil done against you]. He died to make you pure; He died to make you clean; He died to wash you. One day, this will be completely passed from you\u2014you won\u2019t ever have to think about this again.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, we\u2019re talking to tens of thousands\/maybe, hundreds of thousands of people, right now, who have had the experience that you\u2019ve had\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and who are reliving some of that as they hear you talk about this. Everybody we\u2019re talking to\u2014and this is where it gets back to the point that you made\u2014everyone we\u2019re talking to would say that \u201cThere\u2019s brokenness in my sexuality and in my past.\u201d We all have memories of actions, or thoughts, or whatever, where we\u2019d say there\u2019s shame attached to that\/there\u2019s guilt attached to that.<\/p>\n<p>If there\u2019s not a gospel, that will sink you; but <em>because<\/em> there is a gospel, the worst shame that anyone can feel\u2014I\u2019ve shared this with friends before: one of my favorite hymns that we sing at our church\u2014it\u2019s the great hymn, <em>Before the Throne of God Above<\/em>. I <em>love<\/em> the second verse that says:<\/p>\n<p>When Satan tempts me to despair,<\/p>\n<p>And tells me of the guilt within,<\/p>\n<p>And that happens to us; doesn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p>Upward I look, and see Him there<\/p>\n<p>Who made an end to all my sin.<\/p>\n<p>Because the sinless Savior died,<\/p>\n<p>My sinful soul is counted free,<\/p>\n<p>For God the just is satisfied<\/p>\n<p>To look on Him and pardon me.<\/p>\n<p>That good news brings liberation, and hope, and freedom, and the ability to function with joy in an area that, otherwise, we could be shut down completely.<\/p>\n<p>Because this is the thing\u2014when I\u2019m talking to people, where this has been a part of their experience\u2014one of two things: They either shut that side of their life off and say, \u201cI\u2019m not going near there,\u201d\u2014they get repressed; they get cold. Even in marriage, they don\u2019t want anything to do with sexuality. Or they get promiscuous to try to anesthetize\/try to kill the shame by overindulging.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Neither of those work\u2014both of those are destructive. The only thing that works is to remember the gospel in the midst of this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And as you\u2019ve said, the only way the gospel can be applied is\u2014you\u2019ve got to be honest with God and yourself, to say: \u201cI\u2019m going to go there. I\u2019m not going to stick it in a lockbox. I\u2019ve got to step into it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I think it would be interesting to hear your [Jessica\u2019s] perspective. What did you <em>see<\/em>?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and even his healing process.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> How did the gospel become real in his life?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jessica:<\/strong> So what I\u2019ve seen in Joel is this\u2014I\u2019ve seen Joel believe in the love and acceptance of a good Father. I have seen him push through this difficulty and, even, to write about it in the book. I know, when I first saw\u2014when we were writing, back and forth\u2014and I first saw that, I was like, \u201cOh, okay.\u201d It was a bit surprising to me, because it\u2019s <em>so<\/em> <em>painful<\/em> to open that up.<\/p>\n<p>What I\u2019ve seen in Joel is that what he says\u2014when he says: \u201cThe gospel is for the broken. The gospel is for the abused and the abuser,\u201d\u2014I know he believes that. I know that he has seen that to be true\u2014that Christ comes to the abused and the abuser. I mean, you look up the story of David and Bathsheba.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jessica:<\/strong> Christ comes for the one, who took advantage, and the one who, was taken advantage of.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jessica: <\/strong>I\u2019ve seen that healing in his life\u2014it\u2019s not a one-day thing. This is a life-long process of believing that truth over, and over, and over again. And that\u2019s what I\u2019ve seen in Joel.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; I think it\u2019s really important to say that\u2014if you\u2019re listening to this and you\u2019ve been abused\/that if you are an abuser\u2014that God loves you. Like your past doesn\u2019t define who you are. Christ\u2019s righteousness defines who you are\u2014God gets to do that.<\/p>\n<p>Thankfully\u2014like you were quoting in the song\u2014when God looks at us, He sees Jesus. He doesn\u2019t see Joel and all the ways that I reacted to it that were both\u2014well, all of them were pretty unhealthy; and then, some that were healthy\u2014He doesn\u2019t see that. What He sees is His child, who He loves and who He is well-pleased with. That\u2019s how God sees <em>you<\/em>, dear friend\u2014dear brother and sister.<\/p>\n<p>God sees you, and He <em>loves<\/em> you deeply. It pains Him what happened to you, but He hasn\u2019t left you alone. What He did was He sent His Son to die to prove His love for you. God Himself\u2014the Son\/the second person of the Trinity\u2014died to prove His love for you, and there\u2019s <em>nothing<\/em> that\u2019s going to separate you from that. It\u2019s like Romans 8 has become kind of my life chapter; right?\u2014no condemnation. God uses even terrible things; but yet, there is <em>nothing<\/em> that is going to separate you.<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019ve been molested or raped\u2014or abused in those ways\u2014if you\u2019ve been abused physically\/verbally\u2014nothing separates you from God\u2019s love\u2014not even your reaction to those things that have happened to you. God loves you. Your Father loves you and have hope\u2014have hope\u2014know the gospel is true for you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jessica:<\/strong> Right; and those things don\u2019t make you \u201cless than\u2026\u201d\u2014you\u2019re not \u201cless than\u2026\u201d because those things happened to you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you\u2019re not disqualified from talking to your kids\u2014back to the big picture\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jessica:<\/strong> Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014because I think a lot of parents, who have had whatever broken sexual experience, think, \u201cI can\u2019t talk to my kids about this,\u201d or \u201cThe shame is so great.\u201d Did you feel any of this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I was going to say, Bob\u2014I think what I did was I became almost paranoid\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014of not wanting my kids to experience that. Joel, how did you face that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, once again, I have a great lovely wife, who helps to temper me. I have a very, very\u2014like full-force personality\u2014so she helps in that a lot.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ve had real frank conversations with them [his children]. I\u2019ve told them, \u201cThis is who is allowed to touch you in these circumstances.\u201d A book, <em>God Made All of Me<\/em>, by Justin Holcomb\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014which, by the way, is a book we\u2019ve got available in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center; so listeners can get a copy of it. It\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> book for parents to read to kids.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; and really helps to set those boundaries, because you don\u2019t even think you need to talk about that sort of stuff\u2014but the reality is\u2014you <em>do<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>So often, I think that abuse happens with people, who you\u2019re close to\u2014it\u2019s not just some brand-new person off the street\u2014it\u2019s someone who you\u2019re close to. It\u2019s someone your kids are close to. Really defining that well for your kids helps to protect <em>them<\/em>. I mean, it\u2019s not the panacea\u2014right?\u2014it\u2019s not the thing that\u2019s going to keep them from ever having somebody abuse them. But what it does is\u2014it helps them.<\/p>\n<p>And then, also, saying, \u201cIf somebody ever does this\u2014even if they threaten you, even if they threaten me, even if they threaten your mother\u2014come talk to us about it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And pastors\u2014please, please call the police; let the authorities deal with this\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s what they do. If the person is innocent, then God bless them\u2014they\u2019ll be found to be innocent, and fantastic. And if not, then, that\u2019s why God gave us the state; right?\u2014to protect us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Thanks\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Joel\u2014let my wife go first. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Joel, I just wanted to thank you for sharing that, because it goes unspoken. So many people live in shame, and it still hasn\u2019t come out; so thank you for bringing it up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes; you\u2019re welcome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it\u2019s interesting\u2014we are one\u2014I was going to say the <em>exact<\/em> same thing. It took courage, not only to address it in your life, but then to write about it and, now, to speak about it.<\/p>\n<p>I would also say this to anyone that is thinking this, right now: \u201cI\u2019m so broken. God\u2019s never going to use this part of my life. It\u2019s just going to be my little secret. I\u2019m just going to keep it there.\u201d God uses our woundedness to heal and then it becomes a gift\u2014I mean, you didn\u2019t write a book about being a youth pastor; you wrote a book about sex.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Joel:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And that comes out of the pain that God said: \u201cI redeemed it. Now, I\u2019m going to use it as a gift to help redemption in other people.\u201d So thanks for that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And I think a lot of moms and dads are going to benefit from your transparency\u2014but also, from your wisdom and your focus\u2014as they think through: \u201cHow do we have these conversations with our kids about all the issues we face when it comes to sexuality?\u201d\u2014not just the potential for abuse\u2014but \u201cWhat does healthy sexuality look like? How does the gospel factor into that?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve got copies of your book, which is called <em>Mom, Dad\u2026What\u2019s Sex?<\/em> You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to request your copy; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the title of the book: <em>Mom, Dad\u2026What\u2019s Sex?:Giving Your Kids A Gospel-Centered View of Sex and Our Culture<\/em>. You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, this subject is a difficult subject to address. I know, for a lot of families, this is very real\/very personable. Our goal, here, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is to try to bring Jesus and the gospel to bear on what are often the painful issues we face in marriage and family. We want to provide practical biblical help and hope for whatever it is you\u2019re dealing with in your marriage and family relationships.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re able to do that because listeners, like you, say, \u201cThis is important\u2014not only for us\u2014but for others, here, in our community and all around the world.\u201d You make this ministry possible. Every time you make a donation, you\u2019re extending the reach of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We want to say, \u201cThank you for your support of this ministry.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>In fact, right now, if you can help with a donation, we\u2019d love to express our thanks by sending you Dave and Ann Wilson\u2019s new book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>. It\u2019s our thank-you gift to you when you support this ministry with a donation of any amount. You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation. We\u2019re grateful for your ongoing support of this ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Well, our conversation with Joel Fitzpatrick took a little different turn than we had expected\u2014a sober discussion on a difficult subject. The President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, is here with us. These are important conversations for us to have.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; indeed. I think the thing that stood out to me today is how amazing it is that God is using Joel in such a profound way to speak to others out of his own story\u2014a horrific, evil story that he has experienced\u2014but yet, in his own journey of being healed, and reconciled, and experiencing forgiveness\u2014he is ministering to others.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s 2 Corinthians 1; isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, God, as He comforts us, He gives us the ability to comfort others with that same comfort we have experienced. And this is what God, in His grace, does again and again.<\/p>\n<p>Perhaps you\u2019re processing Joel\u2019s story through the lens of your own pain. I simply want to first say: \u201cI\u2019m sorry for your pain\u2014it\u2019s legitimate.\u201d But I also want you to know that your woundedness is not the end of the story. We know from God\u2019s Word\u2014illustrated over and over, in the lives of Moses, and Jacob, and Joseph, and Ruth, and Esther, and David, and Paul, and today, in Joel\u2019s story\u2014that God takes sobering pain, caused by sin, and He transforms it to bring restoration and life to others. God is more than able to do that for you and me today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Beauty from ashes; right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. Thank you, David.<\/p>\n<p>Tomorrow, we\u2019re going to continue the conversation about how, as parents, we should engage with our children around the issue of sex so that we help them think, biblically, about what\u2019s ahead for them. I hope you can be with us for that.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2019 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p>1<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/304954","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304954"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304954"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304954"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304954"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=304954"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=304954"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=304954"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}