{"id":304790,"date":"2017-12-04T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-12-04T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/giving-thanks-in-difficult-places\/"},"modified":"2024-12-02T18:24:29","modified_gmt":"2024-12-02T23:24:29","slug":"giving-thanks-in-difficult-places","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/giving-thanks-in-difficult-places\/","title":{"rendered":"Giving Thanks in Difficult Places"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Best-selling author Ann Voskamp talks about the blessing of thanking God in the hard times. She recalls her earliest memory of seeing her sister killed in a farm accident. The pain and fear of that experience caused her to cut herself in her teen years. Voskamp reminds us that God loves us in and through our brokenness, and it is from that place of brokenness that we can give thanks most powerfully.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Ann Voskamp talks about the blessing of thanking God in the hard times. She reminds us that God loves us in and through our brokenness, and it is from that place that we can give thanks most powerfully.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-12-04.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:49","filesize":"26.38M","filesize_raw":"27661520","date_recorded":"2017-12-04 12:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822,2821],"tags":[2633,4280,4584,6363,2343,4125,6362,4613],"podcast_series":[8252],"cwp_profile":[9473],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304790","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-reaching-out","tag-brokenness","tag-death","tag-fear","tag-god","tag-grief","tag-loss","tag-pain","tag-thankful","podcast_series-the-broken-way","cwp_profile-ann-voskamp","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304790\/giving-thanks-in-difficult-places","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304790\/giving-thanks-in-difficult-places","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"umOOaO0zj8\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/giving-thanks-in-difficult-places\/\">Giving Thanks in Difficult Places<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/giving-thanks-in-difficult-places\/embed\/#?secret=umOOaO0zj8\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Giving Thanks in Difficult Places&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"umOOaO0zj8\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Ann Voskamp talks about the blessing of thanking God in the hard times. She reminds us that God loves us in and through our brokenness, and it is from that place that we can give thanks most powerfully.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-12-04.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>When was the last time you communicated to your spouse, or to your children, or to members of your extended family that you love them? Ann Voskamp says that\u2019s something we ought to be doing regularly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> So often, we think love is something big that we do. Love is all of these little things that we do. We don\u2019t have to-do lists; we have to-love lists\u2014it\u2019s all these little moments. Sometimes, we think romance is something Hollywood-like that we do for each other. Really, it\u2019s all of those everyday single moments, where we live broken and given\u2014like bread to each other\u2014that sustains relationships in marriages and families.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, December 4<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. Ann Voskamp joins us today to talk about how broken people love one another well. Stay with us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>1:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. So we\u2019re going to do kind of an investigative report you got?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I have\u2014I commissioned sixty minutes on this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>A number of detectives had some internet gurus who\u2019d been searching the net.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow! You dug deep.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Very deep; very deep. We have\u2014we have a guest with us today we have been doing a lot of research on. We have to\u2014well, we just have to find out what the truth is about this; but before I introduce our guest, Barbara is here\u2014she\u2019s not a guest.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is she part of the investigative team? Have you [Barbara] been in the research on this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> She has.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Oh, absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to make sure it is done right\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s my contribution. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I\u2019d like to welcome Ann Voskamp to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Ann, welcome to the broadcast.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, it\u2019s a humbling privilege.<\/p>\n<p><strong>2:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>For many, many years the Raineys, and Bob Lepine, and <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> have spoken into our lives at the farm. It\u2019s a <em>surreal<\/em> experience, sir.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s an honor to have you here. For those listeners who do not know Ann, she is a prolific writer\u2014a number of <em>New York Times<\/em> best-selling books\u2014and has just completed a new book that we\u2019ll talk about here, in a few moments, after we solve the mystery. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The book is called <em>The<\/em> <em>Broken Way: A Daring Path into the Abundant Life<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>That leads me, of course, to what the mystery is that we\u2019re trying to solve. Ann, in your writings, you refer to your husband\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh you\u2019re not going to ask this! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014as the Farmer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, sir.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014as the Farmer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I thought\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis and Ann: \u201c<\/strong>Does he have a name?\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And so we had all these people looking, Ann\u2014[Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> And?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> \u2014he\u2019s nameless.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We\u2019ll meet him in heaven! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>3:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>You\u2019ve been married since\u2014how long?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> We are 23 years this past June.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; have seven kids.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019re a mama.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you call him the Farmer?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Only when I\u2019m out and about. At home\u2014actually, at home, I call him \u201cD.\u201d I don\u2019t even say his name\u2014I always call him \u201cD\u201d\u2014his name is Darryl.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I thought that was it!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, Darryl. In his family, he is the youngest of nine. Every single child was named after somebody else in the family. When they got to him, they had run out of people; and they named him their own. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It\u2019s a great name. I just heard all these stories\u2014I\u2019m going, \u201cWho is the Farmer?!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> The Farmer\u2014[Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> I thought you took it from Pioneer Woman and the Marlboro man. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014it works; right? It works!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, let\u2019s talk about\u2014how did you meet Darryl? You grew up with him in the same town.<\/p>\n<p><strong>4:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; yes. So he lives on\u2014we both lived on the 12<sup>th<\/sup> Concession. I lived on the 12<sup>th<\/sup> Concession of Grey Township \/ he lived on the 12<sup>th<\/sup> Concession of Elma Township.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now wait; we have no idea, in America, what you\u2019re talking about. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Yes; what\u2019s a concession?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> So that would be\u2014concession would be the equivalent of a <em>street<\/em>. It\u2019s the same gravel road that runs through one township to the next of two townships; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Township makes sense.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I did fail to mention she is from Canada. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> West of Toronto; right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; we\u2019re about an hour-and-a-half from Toronto.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> So right; we were on the same high school bus to high school, but I had met him in Grade six. His mama had a Good News Bible Club with Christian Evangelism Fellowship in her farm\u2014from what? \/ 23 years\u2014every Friday night, 60-80 kids. I got saved through his mama\u2019s faithful obedience.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So you met Jesus Christ through his mother.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; yes. And every time, on <em>his<\/em> birthday, I always called her and said, \u201cThank you <em>so much<\/em> for praying for the ninth child, because I would have been lost\u2014[Laughter]\u2014without your praying for the ninth son. So, I\u2019m so grateful.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>5:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>So, yes; I owed\u2014I wasn\u2019t only just grateful that I got to <em>marry<\/em> into the family\u2014I came into the family of God through his family\u2019s ministry.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And he had a Jacob-like experience in marrying you? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; but not quite. I wasn\u2019t worth <em>quite<\/em> that much. [Laughter] Yes; he worked four-and-a-half years for my dad before he proposed. Then we moved to a farm about 15 minutes from the farm I grew up on.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Now, I want to know how he proposed\u2014how the Farmer proposed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> You know what he did? It was December the 16<sup>th<\/sup>\u2014so it was the anniversary of our first date. Down\u2014just between my farm and his farm \/ the farms we grew up on\u2014there was Mr. Reeser. Mr. Reeser never got married, but everyone in the whole community thought Mr. Reeser had the most perfect farm. He [Darryl] stopped the car that night. He pulled over to the side of the road, and he gave me the ring; and he said to me\u2014he said: \u201cYou know what? Mr. Reeser never got married; but I would thank the Lord a thousand times if you would marry me, and we could have a farm as pretty as Mr. Reeser\u2019s.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>6:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Wow!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> That\u2019s pretty sweet. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There you go!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> So I said, \u201cYes!\u201d I didn\u2019t realize it would mean a lot of kids, and a lot of grass cutting, and a lot of pigs; but it\u2019s been grace upon grace.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did he really say a thousand times?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> A thousand times; and looking back\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Look what that did! You know, it was prophetic.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>The interesting thing is\u2014we had a Bible study group, and the pastor had ice-breaker questions. Everyone had to share their pet peeve. Darryl\u2019s pet peeve\u2014when they opened it up, and someone ran it around, and they had to figure out who said what his pet peeve was\u2014he said, \u201cI struggle with people who complain and aren\u2019t grateful.\u201d I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s why I wrote that book on <em>One Thousand Gifts<\/em> [Laughter]; because it\u2019s not my default, but I have lived with the man who is just the most grateful man, who says\u2014he punctuates everything with \u201cThank you, Lord.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Bob, the reason you mentioned the one thousand\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014there might be one listener who doesn\u2019t know\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014no; no. They haven\u2019t looked at the <em>New York Times <\/em>best-seller list recently\u2014a thousand ways; right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>7:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; <em>One Thousand Gifts: A Dare to Live Fully Right Where You Are<\/em>, which was me just really taking a dare to write down a thousand things I was grateful for.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m grateful for this book as well. Barbara and I have been reading the book together. This is a thoughtful\u2014not that your others aren\u2019t \/ they are, obviously\u2014but a very thoughtful book.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Well, one of the things that I like so much about<em> this<\/em> book is that you talk so much about our relationship with Christ and the things that He did for us to redeem us and rescue us. You take us to those places where God wants to intersect in our lives. It\u2019s when we come to Him, in our brokenness and we repent, that we experience Him and we experience the grace that He came to give.<\/p>\n<p>So often, as you wrote\u2014and I know this is so true in my own life\u2014we think, \u201cWell, I\u2019m not\u2014I don\u2019t deserve that \/ I\u2019m not worthy of that.\u201d So we tend to withdraw and protect when He\u2019s standing there, with open arms, saying, \u201cI want you to come to me just as you are,\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>8:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014like the old hymn, <em>Just as I Am<\/em>. That\u2019s just a great, great reminder of what the gospel is all about.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I have to say\u2014writing about gratitude or expressing gratitude is not as threatening as writing about broken places in our lives.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s true; that\u2019s true.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>You had to think and pray long and hard before you decided to go public with your brokenness; didn\u2019t you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> After I\u2019d given thanks for 1,000 things\u20142,000, 5,000, 10,000\u2014and then encountered so many people giving thanks in really <em>hard<\/em> places \/ in <em>broken<\/em> places: \u201cCould you give thanks in the midst of suffering?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s where the rubber meets the road. <em>The Broken Way <\/em>really is looking at\u2014it\u2019s the sister book to <em>One Thousand Gifts<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>In the Last Supper, Jesus takes the bread; and what does He do? He gives thanks for it. Then, what does He do? He doesn\u2019t hoard that grace or keep that grace. He then breaks it, and He shares it\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>9:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara: <\/strong>He shares it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014He shares it. So, after you give thanks for all that you\u2019ve been given, what do you do with that? Because we often think,\u201d Oh, well, if I get it together \/ once I get it together,\u201d\u2014 that evasive place somewhere up there\u2014\u201cthen I will go ahead and be generous with my time; and I will live this given, Christ-like sacrificial life as opposed to\u2026\u201d\u2014no! Perhaps the most powerful place you can live, given out into the world, is in the midst of your own brokenness.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s where you completely sideswiped me. I picked up your book, and I began reading it. Barbara had started it\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014a couple of weeks ago. I started reading it; and I\u2019m going, \u201cWhat is this about?\u2014a little girl picking up a piece of broken glass?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; yes. So, <em>One Thousand Gifts<\/em> opens with my first memory\u2014is being four years old and my sister Amy being crushed and killed in a farm accident in our farmyard in front of my mother and me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>10:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>As a young child, it was a <em>horrifying<\/em> experience, where you just realized, \u201cAt any point, someone could die in a very violent, horrific way in front of you.\u201d The world wasn\u2019t a safe place for me, as a child. I was diagnosed with ulcers by the time I was seven. I started cutting in my teenage years, which is where <em>The Broken Way<\/em> opens. By the time I was 17, 18, 19\u2014and university diagnosed an anxiety disorder.<\/p>\n<p>What do you do when the world feels very broken, feels very unsafe, when bad things happen, when loss can pop up around any corner? I think both <em>One Thousand Gifts<\/em> and <em>The Broken Way<\/em> is wrestling out: \u201cOkay; how do I give thanks in the midst of hard places? How do I live life of meaningfulness and purposefulness in the midst of suffering? What is the answer to pain and suffering?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I think \/ we think the answer to pain and suffering is out <em>there<\/em> somewhere. We think, too often, that, as the broken people, \u201cI\u2019m not qualified to come to the table and offer anything,\u201d as opposed to understanding the broken people are the <em>most<\/em> qualified to be the world changes, because they have deep empathy and <em>compassion<\/em> for those other people out in a broken-hearted world.<\/p>\n<p><strong>11:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Look at the word, compassion\u2014actually, means <em>co-suffering<\/em>. Passion actually means suffering. So the answer to suffering in the world is: \u201cHow can I <em>co-suffer<\/em> with other people who are broken?\u201d The people who do that best are the people that understand their own brokenness.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There was moment in your life, as an 18-year-old girl\u2014you were in church\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and the pastor said something that\u2014he wasn\u2019t an evil person, at that point\u2014he just said something\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> No; no.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014but he had no idea of the context of your life.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; he looked\u2014kind man. He said something very inadvertently\u2014he said \/ he laughed and said: \u201cAt one point in their lives, they had lived next to the loony bin, which was the psychiatric hospital. People got locked up in there.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>12:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>As an 18-year-old young girl, who was the only believer in her family, I just crouched down real low in the pew. He didn\u2019t know my mama had been in locked psychiatric wards for stints of time <em>all the way through<\/em> my growing up years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That was because of the death\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because of witnessing my sister\u2019s death in front of her and how to process that grief. She didn\u2019t know how to do that at all. It was such a\u2014it wasn\u2019t your child dying in a hospital; it was your child being crushed in front of you. Mama has come to a saving knowledge of Jesus and is\u2014actually, since she\u2019s given her life to Jesus that is all in the past. Jesus has been a wound-healer, completely healing her.<\/p>\n<p>There was a stretch of time that was so painful. In reaching out to that pastor and letting him know that, if the church isn\u2019t a safe place for the suffering, the church isn\u2019t for Christ. The church has to be a place where the wounded, and the broken, and the limping can come in and sit in a pew and be <em>embraced<\/em> by other people who understand brokenness.<\/p>\n<p><strong>13:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>That pastor received that so well. He humbly apologized and said he was\u2014actually, not only did he apologize to me personally\u2014he apologized the next Sunday from the pulpit.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> That\u2019s wonderful.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> It was; it was a really beautiful testimony. And just to create a safe place in our church that we need to be really sensitive with the language we use; because everybody\u2019s fighting hard battles around us that we\u2019re not even aware that they\u2019re fighting; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; and what you said in your book\u2014I\u2014really touched me. You said: \u201cAs a teenage young lady, I wanted someone in that church pew next to me to reach over and touch my shoulder and say, \u2018Shame is a bully\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014\u201c\u2019grace is a shield.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014\u201c\u2019grace is a shield.\u2019\u201d But I love this last\u2014\u201cYou are in a safe place here.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> I have often requoted Matt Chandler, who says, \u201cIt\u2019s okay not be okay.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cIt\u2019s okay not to be okay.\u201d I think <em>The Broken Way<\/em> is so much about\u2014sometimes, in the church, we think we can be broken until we come to Jesus.<\/p>\n<p><strong>14:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Once we come to Jesus: \u201cI better find a mask really quick\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand stick it on; and show up at church that \u2018I\u2019ve got it all together.\u2019\u201d I think, if we can go ahead and give each other the gift of going first: \u201cI will share my brokenness,\u201d and say that \u201cThis is a safe place for broken people,\u201d all around us. You can\u2019t get to intimacy without vulnerability.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So true.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Vulnerability means you need to break the masks off and come with your brokenness. Because what we really want, more than anything, is that intimacy \/ is that that communion\u2014not only with Christ\u2014but with each other. The only way to get to the communion, paradoxically, is to come with your brokenness.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> I have to tell you that in the very first recording session we ever did on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, back in 1992\u2014we\u2019ve shared this story before\u2014in the middle of the interview, Dennis says, \u201cWell, last week, Barbara and I got into an argument.\u201d He starts talking about the argument. I\u2019m sitting here, thinking: \u201cDo you really want to talk about your argument with your wife on national radio? I mean, you\u2019re the head of a marriage and family ministry.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>15:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>So, I let it go; and at the end, I said, \u201cWe can edit that out if you want us to.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dennis said, \u201cWell, first of all, it really happened.\u201d And then he said, \u201cSecondly, I\u2019ve learned, over the years, that when I share my victories, it becomes unattainable; but when I share my struggles, people go, \u2018Tell me more.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I think that\u2019s part of when we can be vulnerable and transparent with one another and say: \u201cThis is my stuff. This is my junk.\u201d It really opens up and allows <em>healing<\/em> to start. In fact, it\u2019s when we keep things in darkness that there\u2019s kind of like a power that resides there. When you turn on the light, the power is drained\u2014it starts to go away; right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; exactly. I think secrecy is the enemy to intimacy. If we want to go ahead and have authentic genuine intimate relationships with people, we need to go ahead and be vulnerable and destroy the secrecy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>16:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Exactly. It reminds me of a story that I <em>loved<\/em> in your book, which was about a time when your husband, the Farmer\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I know where we\u2019re going. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> \u2014came in at 11:00 at night, which I\u2019m assuming must be in the middle of the summer\u2014for him to be working until 11:00 at night\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> \u2014because you have so much more daylight than we do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> We do; we do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> But he came in\u2014and he was dirty, and he\u2019d worked hard, and he was weary\u2014he came over to <em>you<\/em>, and you were sitting in a chair. He began to rub your feet. I just <em>loved<\/em> that picture, because it\u2019s so like Jesus.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Part of living <em>The Broken Way<\/em> is not only you live broken, given out to the world, but you also accept \u201cI am broken, and I can receive love too.\u201d To let him go ahead and kneel down at my feet and rub my feet\u2014I knew all the things I\u2019d gotten wrong that day and all the things that I had fallen so far short of; and that he was being so Christ-like and being like Jesus, who loves us in the midst of our own brokenness. Can we receive that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> That memory is still\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>17:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, I just\u2014I think, \u201cI\u2019m just humbled by his love, and his grace, and his kindness.\u201d There\u2019s a story that I tell in <em>The Broken Way<\/em>\u2014I came out of the back of the house, and he has a ladder up against the house\u2014he\u2019s up there working on the eaves. I said to him, \u201cHon, what are you doing up there?\u201d\u00a0 He turned to me and said, \u201cI\u2019m loving you.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>I think, so often, we think love is something big that we do\u2014love is all of these little things that we do. We don\u2019t have to-do lists; we have to-love lists\u2014it\u2019s all these little moments. Sometimes, we think romance is something Hollywood-like that we do for each other. Really, it\u2019s all of those everyday single moments, where we live broken and given\u2014like bread to each other\u2014that sustains relationships in marriages and families.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> To me, that\u2019s a part of what was so beautiful about that story\u2014is it reminded me of all that Dennis and I have learned in our marriage\u2014that I feel safe with him, even though there are times I want to withdraw.<\/p>\n<p><strong>18:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>But I\u2019ve learned that there\u2019s safety in our marriage \/ there\u2019s safety in our relationship. If I can\u2019t be safe there, that\u2019s the starting place for us is to have that intimacy\u2014that communion, that comfort, that safety with one another. From there, then, we can practice that. It starts, of course, with Christ; but that first relationship in marriage is the place where we can experience that and learn that; and then, take it out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Don\u2019t you wonder how many couples are wearing masks with one another?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Oh, too many.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> They\u2019ve been married 10\/15 years, and there are places that\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> \u2014they\u2019ve never gone.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s what I wanted to ask Ann: \u201cYou\u2019ve grown up in the same township, but did the Farmer know who he was getting and what he was getting?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> [Laughter] Oh, no; he found somebody from the wrong side of the tracks. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> What did your dad say when he asked?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cAre you sure you want to do that?\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> He asked for permission to marry you. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; my dad wasn\u2019t sure that was a good idea. I come with a lot heart to the table.<\/p>\n<p><strong>19:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Darryl has made himself, literally, a roof\u2014a safe place for me to come with all my brokenness. I think I\u2019ve realized, over and over, just by the way he\u2019s embodied Christ and truly living a broken way, that\u2014which is really cruciform, which is living with your\u2014if we think of that cross\u2014the vertical of the cross is all of the gifts and the grace come down from God and all of our gratitude goes back up to God. Then those horizontal beams of the cross is: \u201cHow do we live broken and given, arms extended? How do we live cruciform?\u2014shaped like a cross?\u201d I see that over and over again in Darryl\u2019s life\u2014we love as well as we are willing to be inconvenienced.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> And he inconveniences himself over, and over, and over again.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> As I was reading your book, I turned to Barbara\u2014I said, \u201cI think the verse that this book really proclaims is in Paul\u2019s writings in 1 Corinthians 15, verse 10. I think this really covers the issue of brokenness and all the places where we\u2019re not whole.<\/p>\n<p><strong>20:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Paul said this\u2014listen carefully: \u201cBut by the grace of God I am what I am. And His grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I but the grace of God that is with me.\u201d He had experienced healing\u2014he was a murderer; he was not a keeper of the law. None of us are!<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019re listening to our broadcast, and you\u2019re kind of marveling at the story you\u2019re hearing, I just want to tell you: \u201cJesus Christ is the one who accepts you exactly like you are. He comes to bring this grace to you in your life, in your marriage, in your family\u2014and not just merely make you a partaker of grace\u2014but one who can end up giving grace.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> By the way, that\u2019s the rest of the story with Ann Voskamp and this book.<\/p>\n<p><strong>21:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> We want to send listeners to our website, FamilyLife Today.com, where they can get more information about how to get a copy of Ann\u2019s book\u2014it\u2019s called <em>The Broken Way: A Daring Path into the Abundant Life<\/em>. We\u2019ve got copies in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order from us, online, at FamilyLife Today.com; or call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website is FamilyLife Today.com. Or you can call 1-800-358-6329 to order\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Well, as we head toward the end of the year, we want to take just a minute to, first of all, say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who are regular listeners and those of you who have provided the funding so that <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> could be on the air this year in your community. As we look ahead to 2018, there\u2019s a lot going on, here, at <em>FamilyLife. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>22:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p>In fact, one of the big initiatives we\u2019re working on here is a parenting initiative. We\u2019ve got a new video series called <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em> that we are finishing up now. This spring, we\u2019ll be releasing it. It will be available in church small groups and also available online. We\u2019re also hoping to get this material into the hands of a million or more people, who are far from God and far from the church. In fact, we\u2019re working on a project, right now, to try to make that happen.<\/p>\n<p>I mention that because the success of these plans for the coming year is really dependant on what we hear from our friends in the next few weeks. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is listener-supported, and your donations make this ministry possible. What we do for marriages \/ what we hope to do for parenting in the year ahead\u2014your donations are the key to all of that. The good news is we have some friends of the ministry, who have put together a matching-gift fund so that donations we receive between now and the end of the year are going to be matched, dollar for dollar.<\/p>\n<p><strong>23:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>In fact, our friend, Michelle Hill, is here with an update on the matching-gift challenge for the month of December.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Thanks Bob\u2026I do have a quick update on our matching gift opportunity. So we\u2019re four days in and as of today our listeners have already contributed over one hundred thirty five thousand dollars toward the match. That\u2019s a great start, \uf04a so thanks for that response\u2026we REALLY appreciate you\u2026and again Bob every dollar folks contribute during December will be matched dollar for dollar up to a total of two million dollars.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and we\u2019re hoping folks will respond today and help us take advantage of these matching funds. You can donate, online, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Or you can mail your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111. Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223.<\/p>\n<p>Now, tomorrow, most people are familiar with Ann Voskamp\u2019s <em>One Thousand Gifts<\/em>, where she wrote out one thousand things she was thankful for.<\/p>\n<p><strong>24:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>But they\u2019re not as familiar with her most recent exercise, where she started making a list of things she needed to repent of. We\u2019ll hear her tell about that tomorrow. I hope you can tune in for that.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\"><u>donating today<\/u><\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p>1<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/304790","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304790"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304790"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304790"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304790"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=304790"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=304790"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=304790"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}