{"id":304756,"date":"2017-11-09T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-11-09T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/fresh-voices-timeless-truth\/"},"modified":"2017-11-09T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-11-09T17:00:00","slug":"fresh-voices-timeless-truth","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/fresh-voices-timeless-truth\/","title":{"rendered":"Fresh Voices, Timeless Truth"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: David Platt, Francis Chan, JD Greear, Jen Wilkin | Series: 25 Years of Radio: Influential Voices | Every generation needs fresh new leaders and thinkers to point people to God&#8217;s Word. Find out more from prominent leaders Francis Chan, J.D. Greear, Jen Wilkin, and David Platt.Show Notes &#038; ResourcesPastor David Platt wonders why believers are rising up against popular social injustices like poverty and slavery, but remain silent on other issues like abortion.Pastor Francis Chan reminds believers about their need for the Holy Spirit and calls on the church to be conduits of the Holy Spirit&#8217;s power and love.J.D. Greear talks about the ministry of the Holy Spirit in a believer&#8217;s life.Jen Wilkins talks about the attributes of God. Wilkins reminds listeners that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Every generation needs fresh new leaders and thinkers to point people to God&#8217;s Word. Find out more from prominent leaders Francis Chan, J.D. Greear, Jen Wilkin, and David Platt.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-11-09.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:38","filesize":"24.38M","filesize_raw":"25565287","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822],"tags":[4299,4699],"podcast_series":[8246],"cwp_profile":[3275,8813,9391,3337],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304756","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-faith","tag-leadership","podcast_series-25-years-of-radio-influential-voices","cwp_profile-david-platt","cwp_profile-francis-chan","cwp_profile-jd-greear","cwp_profile-jen-wilkin","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304756\/fresh-voices-timeless-truth","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304756\/fresh-voices-timeless-truth","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"mDumlIt9vl\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/fresh-voices-timeless-truth\/\">Fresh Voices, Timeless Truth<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/fresh-voices-timeless-truth\/embed\/#?secret=mDumlIt9vl\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Fresh Voices, Timeless Truth&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"mDumlIt9vl\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-11-09.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-11-09.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As parents, our assignment is\u2014not simply to raise children who wind up being healthy, wealthy, and wise\u2014our assignment is to raise up children who have a kingdom mindset. Here\u2019s David Platt.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> \u201cHey, guys, it\u2019s really costly for some people around the world to share the gospel. Thankfully, we\u2019re able to share the gospel where we live. As we talk about the persecuted church, I think one of the ways we can best serve and support the persecuted church is by taking advantage of the freedom that we do have to share the gospel. If <em>we<\/em> are not sharing the gospel here, and they\u2019re dying to share the gospel over there, then there\u2019s a major disconnect.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, November 9<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. One thing we\u2019ve always believed, here, at FamilyLife is that our marriage and our parenting needs to be lived out with the kingdom worldview. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ll talk more about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on birthday day\u2014the 25<sup>th<\/sup> birthday of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014the Thursday edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. It was 25 years ago. Do you remember?\u2014do you remember our first program? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; I mean, you sat down, and interviewed me, and asked me about something. I told the story about Barbara and I having an argument the night before. You said: \u201cDennis, time out! This is national radio. You\u2019re the host of this program. You\u2019re supposed to be this ideal perfect host who lives the Bible perfectly.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think I said it exactly that way! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No; it was\u2014that was kind of the philosophical underpinnings. I said\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I said, \u201cDo you want to air your dirty laundry on national radio?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t that dirty, but we had had an argument\u2014I didn\u2019t win. So, you know\u2014\u2014anyway, I told you: \u201cYou know what? If I can\u2019t do what the New Testament is about\u2014why is the New Testament about 12 guys who betrayed Christ, disobeyed Christ, left Him, [and] deserted Him?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, we all are made out of the same human fiber; and we fail. That\u2019s where Jesus Christ shows up with His grace, and mercy, and forgiveness. He can pick us up and He can still use us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I remember us sitting down before we recorded that first program and saying, \u201cIf we\u2019re going to do this, we need to make sure that our program is practical, and that it\u2019s biblical, and that we stay aimed at the target and talk about marriage and family.\u201d We haven\u2019t done that perfectly; but that\u2019s been our goal, for the last quarter of a century, to continue to provide practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Did you say that first or did I?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think that was me. I\u2019m going to take credit for it. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I\u2019m not so sure. This is one of the advantages of being around 25 years. You can hold one another accountable to the historical record.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m sure it was me\u2014the more we talk about it. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, today, to celebrate, we are going to hear from some of the folks who have joined us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> in recent years. In fact, these are some of the folks who, in recent years, have emerged as godly young men and women who are calling their peers to walk with Christ. It has been a privilege to have these guests be a part of the program.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. The first one is Francis Chan\u2014wrote a book about the forgotten God, which is about the Holy Spirit. He and I had quite a battle over the microphone, talking about the Holy Spirit\u2019s work in our lives on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>And He tells his disciples: \u201cWait here. Don\u2019t go out there and try to change the world on your own. It\u2019s just not going to happen. Stay in this room and wait, because this power is going to come upon you.\u201d So they wait; they wait; they wait. And when that power comes, sure enough, everyone says they felt a sense of awe. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, don\u2019t you want to feel that? Don\u2019t we <em>all<\/em> want that? Isn\u2019t that what this is about?\u2014for me to know that that wasn\u2019t just a clever speaker up there, or a great soloist, or a great man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014or a great doctrine.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis:<\/strong> Exactly; exactly! But to know: \u201cI experienced God. It\u2019s undeniable.\u201d I want to feel that sense of awe. I want to <em>know<\/em> that it\u2019s God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, I want to ask you a question that I ask some of my friends on Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. This morning, I went online and I said, \u201cGive me one word that describes the Holy Spirit to you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis:<\/strong> I would go with \u201cpowerful,\u201d\u2014I would. I wish I could say \u201cpowerful leader,\u201d\u2014is that powerful\/leader?\u2014[Laughter]\u2014because I think a lot of times when we think of the Holy Spirit, I don\u2019t want people to think just a power that I harness\u2014you know, like Spiderman or something\u2014it\u2019s this idea of a Person that we follow that <em>leads<\/em> us and gives us this power. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, sometimes, we neglect that thought. We think: \u201cWell, the Holy Spirit will come. He gives me this power that I can use at any time.\u201d But no; he\u2019s a Person that leads us and empowers us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Take it down to your wife, Lisa; okay?\u2014because she\u2019s not up on a podium, giving a message to thousands of people like you do. She\u2019s caring for your three daughters and your son. How does this apply to her life about expecting God to show up where she\u2019s living her life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014as a mom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis:<\/strong> Oh, yes. It\u2019s huge as the mom\u2014HUGE as the mom because\u2014here\u2019s the thing. We got to a point with our oldest daughter\u2014we were really struggling about a year-and-a-half ago\u2014just wondering: \u201cIs this faith even her own?\u201d and at one point, just looking at her and going: \u201cI\u2019ve never seen the fruit of the Holy Spirit in your life. You\u2019ve been pretty obedient and that, but I\u2019m just wondering\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Did you say this to her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis:<\/strong> Yes; I did, and with tears.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> She\u2019s how old?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis:<\/strong> Now, she\u2019s 14. At the time, she was 13. I mean, I\u2019m crying \/ I\u2019m sobbing; because I can\u2019t make her fall in love with Jesus. That\u2019s not anything\u2014and everything I see in the Scriptures, according to my theology\u2014that\u2019s something the Holy Spirit has to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I\u2019m crying, night after night, going: \u201cGod, I can\u2019t do this. Either your Holy Spirit comes into her and she will follow, she\u2019ll be convicted, she\u2019ll fall in love with You; or Your Holy Spirit does not go into her, and I can\u2019t do anything about it. I can curb her behavior \/ I can, You know, just put tighter restrictions on her so she can\u2019t get into too much trouble; but I can\u2019t make her fall in love with God.\u201d I just remember agonizing and saying: \u201cGod, You\u2019ve got to do it; You\u2019ve got to do it.\u201d Here I am, traveling the world\u2014telling people about Jesus, seeing people come and fall in love with Jesus, and I can\u2019t make it happen in my own home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, after those times of prayer, there was a day when my daughter came in and said: \u201cDad, you were right. I wasn\u2019t a believer. I did not have the Holy Spirit in me,\u201d\u2014and she goes\u2014\u201cand I know it; and I\u2019m sure of it, because he\u2019s in me <em>now<\/em>. So, I <em>know<\/em> the difference.\u201d And she goes, \u201cDad, I talk to Him like I talk to you now\u2014God is that <em>real<\/em> to me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOver the last year-and-a-half, we\u2019ve seen it\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cWho is this girl?\u201d And the battle is real\u2014it\u2019s hers\u2014there\u2019s a real relationship with God. So, with parenting, her understanding that and realizing we don\u2019t have to take ourselves too seriously. We work hard \/ work hard at parenting; at the same time, there\u2019s this supernatural element that you and I don\u2019t have control over. My wife Lisa sees that <em>completely<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s Francis Chan, talking about the ministry of the Holy Spirit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs he talked about it, Dennis, I couldn\u2019t help but smile and think, \u201cIf Bill Bright was in the room, he would have been smiling too.\u201d One of Bill Bright\u2019s core messages, throughout his ministry, was the need for people to walk in the power of the Holy Spirit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. I look back over my Christian walk and there\u2019s really only been a handful of Bible teachers that I\u2019ve ever heard really teach about who the Holy Spirit is, why He came, what He\u2019s all about, and how you can be filled with the Holy Spirit and walk in the power of the Spirit. Francis Chan was one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnother one was J.D. Greear. I was at a conference with him\u2014sat on the stage with him as we formed a panel\u2014I really like J. D. He is a good man, making a church highly effective around building marriages and families for the next generation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Pastor of the Summit Church in North Carolina with a number of campuses. He joined us to talk about our need to rely on the Holy Spirit to guide our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. D.:<\/strong> You know, it seems like, when it comes to the Holy Spirit, Christians\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014orthodox Christians\u2014fall into one or two categories. On the one side, you have some that are, shall we say, obsessed with the Holy Spirit. It seems like the Holy Spirit always appears in some random confluence of events, you know?\u2014\u201cThe billboard was the same background color as the color of her eyes, and the last two digits of the phone number were the same as her age. I just knew the Holy Spirit was telling me to ask her out.\u201d [Laughter] You know, sounds like the preamble to a restraining order to me\u2014I wouldn\u2019t go with that. [Laughter]\u00a0 Or, you know, they have these kind of like manifestations, where the Holy Spirit makes them do just really bizarre things. That would be one side.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other side\u2014and this is probably more where I was coming from \/ is, maybe, in reaction to that\u2014they ignore or neglect the ministry of the Holy Spirit altogether. I believed in the Holy Spirit, but I related to Him in the same way that I relate to my pituitary gland\u2014I know that it\u2019s in there; I know that it\u2019s essential for something; I certainly would not want to be without it\u2014but I didn\u2019t have an interaction or relationship with the Holy Spirit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cI worship the Holy Duet,\u201d\u2014is how I would say it\u2014\u201cGod the Father and God the Son\u201d\u2014or my functional trinity was \u201cGod the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Bible.\u201d But there was <em>something<\/em> that Jesus indicated was so important about the Holy Spirit that He told His disciples that they would see this to their advantage that He go away if they received the Holy Spirit. I didn\u2019t know the Holy Spirit that way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s actually an astounding statement that Christ makes\u2014He said: \u201cIt is to your advantage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.D.:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cto your advantage\u201d\u2014I mean, think about how\u2014\u201cthat I leave and that I go back to the Father.\u201d Now, that sounds contradictory; doesn\u2019t it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.D.:<\/strong> Think about how absurd that must have sounded to those first disciples when they heard it. How awesome would it have been to have had Jesus as a constant companion for three years? Every night, you go back\u2014you sit around the campfire \/ you\u2019ve got a theological question\u2014bam!\u2014Jesus answers it. You\u2019re at a party\u2014you run out of Chex<sup>\u2122<\/sup> Mix\u2014bam!\u2014Jesus multiplies the Chex Mix. [Laughter] Your dog dies\u2014bam!\u2014Jesus raises the dog back from the dead. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour cat dies\u2014Jesus digs a hole to help you bury the cat; because, you know, that\u2019s how He feels about cats. [Laughter] That\u2019s probably not <em>exactly<\/em> what it was like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We have a <em>large<\/em>, large degree of listeners who love cats. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019re talking about our cat-loving listeners.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. D.:<\/strong> I\u2019m sure that will be edited out. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We apologize for our guest, right now\u2014continue on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.D.:<\/strong> Alright; so, I mean, it would have been just <em>amazing<\/em> to have Jesus as a companion. Yet, Jesus said: \u201cIf you really understood who the Holy Spirit was and what was being offered to you in Him \/ if you had to choose Jesus beside you or the Spirit inside of you, you would choose the Spirit inside of you.\u201d I think it\u2019s a very sobering question. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you ask the average Christian: \u201cChoose, right now\u2014you could have Jesus beside you this evening or the Holy Spirit inside of you,\u201d most of them, if they were honest, would say, \u201cI\u2019d choose Jesus beside.\u201d If you told them that Jesus was going to come and be the new pastor of their church, they would be <em>ecstatic<\/em>: \u201cJesus of Nazareth preaching every week!\u201d Yet, they\u2019re not nearly as excited about the Spirit of God inside of them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat shows us just how far removed we are from the <em>reality<\/em> of the promise that He was giving us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; that\u2019s J.D. Greear, who by the way, is starting a radio program\u2014he\u2019s going to be heard on the Moody Radio Network. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Are you going to be the voice of that broadcast too? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They haven\u2019t called me; I don\u2019t think so. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I mean, I don\u2019t know where this ends. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know how great it is to have these emerging young leaders, who are holding firm to what the Scriptures teach, and calling a new generation to walk in obedience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And another leader that we had on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014Jen Wilkin, a young lady from Dallas, Texas\u2014actually, what\u2019s the name of the exact town there, Bob?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think she\u2019s in Flower Mound. That\u2019s where\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Flower Mound, Texas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She attends church at the Village Church in Flower Mound, Texas\u2014has a Bible study for women in the Dallas area, and she\u2019s written a couple of books. She speaks nationally. You had lunch with her a few months ago; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Barbara and I did\u2014we just enjoyed her and Sally Lloyd-Jones. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did she join you for lunch as well?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. And Crawford Loritts\u2014so, it was quite a\u2014it was quite a table we were sitting at.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s a pretty good table, right there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, Jen came in, not long ago, to talk with us about the attributes of God, and how important it is for us to understand the attributes of God, and how knowing God helps you better know yourself and vice versa.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jen:<\/strong> You know, it\u2019s been said that the knowledge of God and the knowledge of self always go hand in hand. There is no true knowledge of self <em>apart<\/em> from the knowledge of God. It <em>follows<\/em> that, if we\u2019re going to have true self-knowledge, we need to understand what the Bible says is true about God and have a pretty good grip on that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that I encourage women to do, when they\u2019re studying the Bible, is to read, looking first for what it says about God Himself. I\u2019ve just learned, over the years, that that\u2019s a more difficult request than we might think\u2014that many of us have an underdeveloped vocabulary when it comes to discussing the nature and character of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I wanted to write a book that helped us to form our thinking around what the Bible has to say about who God is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I had a friend ask me, a number of months ago: \u201cWhat were the most influential books in my life?\u201d I don\u2019t know that I had stopped to think about that in awhile. I thought he wanted a top-ten list. I put it together; and the number one book on my list\u2014probably the most influential book\u2014was J.I. Packer\u2019s book, <em>Knowing God<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The reason is because\u2014just what you\u2019re saying\u2014it gave me a picture of God and understanding of God that was more exalted than the smaller picture I had in my own mind. There is something about understanding just how amazing \/ just how spectacular God is that changes everything.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Right; I think that we have a tendency to diminish who God is naturally. We tend to form him after our own likeness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause God is so other than we are, and because it is difficult to wrap our human brains around that, we default to thinking about ways to sort of frame him up\u2014within our human understanding\u2014that diminishes who He is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So it\u2019s\u2014our thought naturally gravitates to: \u201cGod is like us only better.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And that\u2019s kind of our\u2014\u201cIt\u2019s the best us you could be,\u201d is kind of \u201cThat\u2019s who God is.\u201d [Laughter] But that\u2019s not who the Bible\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No; and that\u2019s pretty sad, too, when you think about it\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s who you think God is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014kind of adding up all of humanity and trying to make that into God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re going to have good self-knowledge\u2014appropriate, accurate self-knowledge\u2014you have to begin with God and think backward from Him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes; exactly. But what we have a tendency to do\u2014is to turn and measure ourselves against the person sitting next to us or the person that we know from work\u2014someone who, usually, we\u2019re going to hand-pick so that we measure up favorably when we place ourselves next to them. But when you measure yourself next to an immeasurable, transcendent God, it teaches you to place yourself rightly in the scheme of things; and it creates worship in us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWorship is something that we <em>need<\/em> to be able to flourish as creatures. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We talked about influential books. I know Psalm 111, verse 10, was an influential verse for you. Was this early in your life that you came across this verse and it kind of grabbed you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes; fairly early, I hit young adulthood and started to become increasingly aware of my own limits\u2014I think it\u2019s a pretty common thing that happens. I came across that verse that said, \u201cThe fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom\u2026\u201d It really stopped me in my tracks; because I just did not expect that the word, \u201cfear,\u201d would be where it was in that verse. I wanted it to say: \u201cThe love of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,\u201d or \u201cThe worship of the Lord\u2026\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, then, it became really important to develop a biblical understanding of what fear is being talked about there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou find that in Hebrews, Chapter 12\u2014that it\u2019s the right reverence and awe that you should feel towards someone who is worthy of it. That made more sense, you know, that we begin to become wise when we rightly acknowledge God for who He is and we place him where He belongs in our estimation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, again, that\u2019s Jen Wilkin, talking about the attributes of God. Again, I have to smile. We mentioned that one of Bill Bright\u2019s core messages was his message on the Holy Spirit. Another of his core messages was on the attributes of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He loved to teach about who God is and just continually exhorted us to remember the truth of who God is and who you are, because you are not going to rightly understand who you are unless you remember and recall who God is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think you always told me that that message on the attributes of God had about 27 points and, often, went on for more than\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014a long time. [Laughter] You know what?\u2014when you\u2019re Bill Bright, you can get away with anything\u2014you really can.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, we also have had the opportunity to have, as a studio guest, a young man, who gives leadership to the International Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention, and has just recently been named as the pastor at McLean Bible Church in McLean, Virginia\u2014that\u2019s David Platt. David is an author and a speaker. He is best known for calling Christians to live radically. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI so appreciate the fact that he understands that truth, and grace, and mercy, and compassion all have to come together. We don\u2019t devalue truth; but if our lives are not marked by grace, and mercy, and compassion, then we\u2019ve gotten something wrong with the truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> David is one of these men that I believe God is already used mightily, but his best years are yet ahead.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> First Corinthians 12 talks about, when one part of the body suffers, the whole body suffers. We do have brothers and sisters in Christ, around the world, who are suffering and dying for the gospel. One way we\u2019ve got to come alongside them and suffer with them is just by praying for them. I would encourage a mom or a dad\u2014something we do with our kids\u2014is to, in an age-appropriate way, share stories of suffering and persecution in the world so they know it\u2019s not easy to be a follower of Christ in this world: \u201cWe have brothers and sisters in Christ who we ought to be praying for; so we\u2019re praying for them.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are ways through different ministries to actually be a part of giving to them and writing to them. I mean, there\u2019s kids whose parents have been put in prison for the gospel. So, for our children to have opportunities to write to other children and encourage them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, there are some real practical things like that; but then, also, to realize\u2014this is something we try to do with our kids: \u201cHey guys, it\u2019s really costly for some people around the world to share the gospel. Thankfully, we\u2019re able to share the gospel where we live. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cAs we talk about the persecuted church, I think one of the ways we can best serve and support the persecuted church is by taking advantage of the freedom we do have to share the gospel. If <em>we<\/em> are not sharing the gospel here, and they\u2019re dying to share the gospel over there, then there\u2019s a major disconnect.\u201d I want to encourage my kids to <em>maximize<\/em> the opportunities we have to share, right here, as they hear news about this happening to Christians in this part of West Africa or the Middle East. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> This is about the Great Commission\u2014this is about Jesus commanding us to go. The nature of the family in America tends to be, I think\u2014even within the Christian community\u2014a little self-absorbed \/ maybe not just \u201ca little\u201d either, by the way. We need to be <em>thinking<\/em> about other people in other countries. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe didn\u2019t do this, you know, <em>great<\/em> as we were raising our kids; but we actually spent the better part of two years reading through a devotional before school that was a quick\u2014I don\u2019t know; maybe a three- to five-minute story of people, who were missionaries in other eras to other countries\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0\u2014helping our kids get pictures and images of what it looked like to be heroic for the gospel. Sharing those stories, we heard about persecution. We read about people giving their lives. That\u2019s not happening in America; but it is happening, right now, overseas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; it is. We do a very similar thing, just by exposing them to biographies and that sort of thing. Part of the reason we do that is because we want to show them good models of what it means to suffer for Christ. I know this is a point where some people may start to tune me out; but if you just hang with me for a second, we want to raise our kids up so that they\u2019re willing to go to West Africa or the Middle East with the gospel, at great cost. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is, as a pastor, what I was intentional about doing\u2014was trying to encourage our families to raise their kids up to spend their lives for the spread of the gospel around the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat may seem extreme to people. That may seem like: \u201cNow, you\u2019re really talking radical Christianity.\u201d This is not radical Christianity \/ this is basic Christianity. Jesus said: \u201cYou follow Me. You\u2019re going to be like a sheep among wolves. You\u2019re going to go and find yourself in difficult, dangerous places by My design. But you\u2019re going to be there for the spread of the gospel and for My glory. It\u2019s worth it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want my kids to <em>believe<\/em> that there\u2019s no better way to spend their lives than making the gospel known\u2014right where they live, around the world, even in hard places. So, we\u2019ll talk\u2014we\u2019ll just kind of dream every once in a while: \u201cHey, what if God leads you to this country?!\u201d \u201cWhat if God leads you to that country, where there\u2019s suffering right now?\u201d\u2014and to realize: \u201cJust because we\u2019re born in the United States, doesn\u2019t mean we\u2019ve got a pass on suffering for the spread of the gospel. One of the ways we serve our persecuted brothers and sisters is by actually going alongside them.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Again, that\u2019s David Platt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s interesting to think, Dennis\u2014that back when <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> started, 25 years ago today,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014David Platt wasn\u2019t born\u2014barely. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014nobody knew his name; nobody knew Jen Wilkins\u2019 name, or Francis Chan, or J. D. Greear. You have to wonder: \u201cWho is it that God is going to raise up in the next decade or the next 20 years?\u201d I don\u2019t know what their names will be, but my prayer is that they will be faithful to God\u2019s Word in the same way that these folks have been. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It could be, right now, we\u2019re speaking to a young man \/ a young lady\u2014who may even be being raised, right now, by their mom and dad, who they\u2019re being forced to listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. My exhortation to you, as a young lady \/ a young man: \u201cIf God gives you the call, answer it. Dream great dreams for God. Expect God to do big things and to use you, maybe, to do some of them.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; well, happy birthday!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Happy birthday to you, Bob. It\u2019s just been an outstanding adventure and a privilege to be on the ride with you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A good 25 years; and we\u2019ll see what God has in store\u2014right?\u2014going forward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No doubt about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> In fact, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear from some of the people who have marked this ministry over the last quarter of a century by the way they\u2019ve marked your life. In fact, we\u2019re going to hear from people who have gone on to heaven\u2014Bill Bright, Chuck Colson, Howard Hendricks\u2014and one guy who\u2019s still alive\u2014Josh McDowell. That all comes up tomorrow. Hope our listeners can join us for what will be a memorable program tomorrow.<br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\"><u>donating today<\/u><\/a> to help defray the costs? \u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a> \u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:38"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.38M"],"filesize_raw":["25565287"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304756.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304756.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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generation needs fresh new leaders and thinkers to point people to God's Word. Find out more from prominent leaders Francis Chan, J.D. Greear, Jen Wilkin, and David Platt.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-11-09.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As parents, our assignment is\u2014not simply to raise children who wind up being healthy, wealthy, and wise\u2014our assignment is to raise up children who have a kingdom mindset. Here\u2019s David Platt.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> \u201cHey, guys, it\u2019s really costly for some people around the world to share the gospel. Thankfully, we\u2019re able to share the gospel where we live. As we talk about the persecuted church, I think one of the ways we can best serve and support the persecuted church is by taking advantage of the freedom that we do have to share the gospel. If <em>we<\/em> are not sharing the gospel here, and they\u2019re dying to share the gospel over there, then there\u2019s a major disconnect.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, November 9<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. One thing we\u2019ve always believed, here, at FamilyLife is that our marriage and our parenting needs to be lived out with the kingdom worldview. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ll talk more about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on birthday day\u2014the 25<sup>th<\/sup> birthday of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014the Thursday edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. It was 25 years ago. Do you remember?\u2014do you remember our first program? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; I mean, you sat down, and interviewed me, and asked me about something. I told the story about Barbara and I having an argument the night before. You said: \u201cDennis, time out! This is national radio. You\u2019re the host of this program. You\u2019re supposed to be this ideal perfect host who lives the Bible perfectly.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think I said it exactly that way! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No; it was\u2014that was kind of the philosophical underpinnings. I said\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I said, \u201cDo you want to air your dirty laundry on national radio?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t that dirty, but we had had an argument\u2014I didn\u2019t win. So, you know\u2014\u2014anyway, I told you: \u201cYou know what? If I can\u2019t do what the New Testament is about\u2014why is the New Testament about 12 guys who betrayed Christ, disobeyed Christ, left Him, [and] deserted Him?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, we all are made out of the same human fiber; and we fail. That\u2019s where Jesus Christ shows up with His grace, and mercy, and forgiveness. He can pick us up and He can still use us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I remember us sitting down before we recorded that first program and saying, \u201cIf we\u2019re going to do this, we need to make sure that our program is practical, and that it\u2019s biblical, and that we stay aimed at the target and talk about marriage and family.\u201d We haven\u2019t done that perfectly; but that\u2019s been our goal, for the last quarter of a century, to continue to provide practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Did you say that first or did I?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think that was me. I\u2019m going to take credit for it. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I\u2019m not so sure. This is one of the advantages of being around 25 years. You can hold one another accountable to the historical record.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m sure it was me\u2014the more we talk about it. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, today, to celebrate, we are going to hear from some of the folks who have joined us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> in recent years. In fact, these are some of the folks who, in recent years, have emerged as godly young men and women who are calling their peers to walk with Christ. It has been a privilege to have these guests be a part of the program.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. The first one is Francis Chan\u2014wrote a book about the forgotten God, which is about the Holy Spirit. He and I had quite a battle over the microphone, talking about the Holy Spirit\u2019s work in our lives on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis: <\/strong>And He tells his disciples: \u201cWait here. Don\u2019t go out there and try to change the world on your own. It\u2019s just not going to happen. Stay in this room and wait, because this power is going to come upon you.\u201d So they wait; they wait; they wait. And when that power comes, sure enough, everyone says they felt a sense of awe. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, don\u2019t you want to feel that? Don\u2019t we <em>all<\/em> want that? Isn\u2019t that what this is about?\u2014for me to know that that wasn\u2019t just a clever speaker up there, or a great soloist, or a great man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014or a great doctrine.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis:<\/strong> Exactly; exactly! But to know: \u201cI experienced God. It\u2019s undeniable.\u201d I want to feel that sense of awe. I want to <em>know<\/em> that it\u2019s God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, I want to ask you a question that I ask some of my friends on Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. This morning, I went online and I said, \u201cGive me one word that describes the Holy Spirit to you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis:<\/strong> I would go with \u201cpowerful,\u201d\u2014I would. I wish I could say \u201cpowerful leader,\u201d\u2014is that powerful\/leader?\u2014[Laughter]\u2014because I think a lot of times when we think of the Holy Spirit, I don\u2019t want people to think just a power that I harness\u2014you know, like Spiderman or something\u2014it\u2019s this idea of a Person that we follow that <em>leads<\/em> us and gives us this power. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, sometimes, we neglect that thought. We think: \u201cWell, the Holy Spirit will come. He gives me this power that I can use at any time.\u201d But no; he\u2019s a Person that leads us and empowers us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Take it down to your wife, Lisa; okay?\u2014because she\u2019s not up on a podium, giving a message to thousands of people like you do. She\u2019s caring for your three daughters and your son. How does this apply to her life about expecting God to show up where she\u2019s living her life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014as a mom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis:<\/strong> Oh, yes. It\u2019s huge as the mom\u2014HUGE as the mom because\u2014here\u2019s the thing. We got to a point with our oldest daughter\u2014we were really struggling about a year-and-a-half ago\u2014just wondering: \u201cIs this faith even her own?\u201d and at one point, just looking at her and going: \u201cI\u2019ve never seen the fruit of the Holy Spirit in your life. You\u2019ve been pretty obedient and that, but I\u2019m just wondering\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Did you say this to her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis:<\/strong> Yes; I did, and with tears.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> She\u2019s how old?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Francis:<\/strong> Now, she\u2019s 14. At the time, she was 13. I mean, I\u2019m crying \/ I\u2019m sobbing; because I can\u2019t make her fall in love with Jesus. That\u2019s not anything\u2014and everything I see in the Scriptures, according to my theology\u2014that\u2019s something the Holy Spirit has to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I\u2019m crying, night after night, going: \u201cGod, I can\u2019t do this. Either your Holy Spirit comes into her and she will follow, she\u2019ll be convicted, she\u2019ll fall in love with You; or Your Holy Spirit does not go into her, and I can\u2019t do anything about it. I can curb her behavior \/ I can, You know, just put tighter restrictions on her so she can\u2019t get into too much trouble; but I can\u2019t make her fall in love with God.\u201d I just remember agonizing and saying: \u201cGod, You\u2019ve got to do it; You\u2019ve got to do it.\u201d Here I am, traveling the world\u2014telling people about Jesus, seeing people come and fall in love with Jesus, and I can\u2019t make it happen in my own home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, after those times of prayer, there was a day when my daughter came in and said: \u201cDad, you were right. I wasn\u2019t a believer. I did not have the Holy Spirit in me,\u201d\u2014and she goes\u2014\u201cand I know it; and I\u2019m sure of it, because he\u2019s in me <em>now<\/em>. So, I <em>know<\/em> the difference.\u201d And she goes, \u201cDad, I talk to Him like I talk to you now\u2014God is that <em>real<\/em> to me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOver the last year-and-a-half, we\u2019ve seen it\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cWho is this girl?\u201d And the battle is real\u2014it\u2019s hers\u2014there\u2019s a real relationship with God. So, with parenting, her understanding that and realizing we don\u2019t have to take ourselves too seriously. We work hard \/ work hard at parenting; at the same time, there\u2019s this supernatural element that you and I don\u2019t have control over. My wife Lisa sees that <em>completely<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s Francis Chan, talking about the ministry of the Holy Spirit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs he talked about it, Dennis, I couldn\u2019t help but smile and think, \u201cIf Bill Bright was in the room, he would have been smiling too.\u201d One of Bill Bright\u2019s core messages, throughout his ministry, was the need for people to walk in the power of the Holy Spirit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. I look back over my Christian walk and there\u2019s really only been a handful of Bible teachers that I\u2019ve ever heard really teach about who the Holy Spirit is, why He came, what He\u2019s all about, and how you can be filled with the Holy Spirit and walk in the power of the Spirit. Francis Chan was one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnother one was J.D. Greear. I was at a conference with him\u2014sat on the stage with him as we formed a panel\u2014I really like J. D. He is a good man, making a church highly effective around building marriages and families for the next generation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Pastor of the Summit Church in North Carolina with a number of campuses. He joined us to talk about our need to rely on the Holy Spirit to guide our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. D.:<\/strong> You know, it seems like, when it comes to the Holy Spirit, Christians\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014orthodox Christians\u2014fall into one or two categories. On the one side, you have some that are, shall we say, obsessed with the Holy Spirit. It seems like the Holy Spirit always appears in some random confluence of events, you know?\u2014\u201cThe billboard was the same background color as the color of her eyes, and the last two digits of the phone number were the same as her age. I just knew the Holy Spirit was telling me to ask her out.\u201d [Laughter] You know, sounds like the preamble to a restraining order to me\u2014I wouldn\u2019t go with that. [Laughter]\u00a0 Or, you know, they have these kind of like manifestations, where the Holy Spirit makes them do just really bizarre things. That would be one side.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other side\u2014and this is probably more where I was coming from \/ is, maybe, in reaction to that\u2014they ignore or neglect the ministry of the Holy Spirit altogether. I believed in the Holy Spirit, but I related to Him in the same way that I relate to my pituitary gland\u2014I know that it\u2019s in there; I know that it\u2019s essential for something; I certainly would not want to be without it\u2014but I didn\u2019t have an interaction or relationship with the Holy Spirit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cI worship the Holy Duet,\u201d\u2014is how I would say it\u2014\u201cGod the Father and God the Son\u201d\u2014or my functional trinity was \u201cGod the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Bible.\u201d But there was <em>something<\/em> that Jesus indicated was so important about the Holy Spirit that He told His disciples that they would see this to their advantage that He go away if they received the Holy Spirit. I didn\u2019t know the Holy Spirit that way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s actually an astounding statement that Christ makes\u2014He said: \u201cIt is to your advantage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.D.:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cto your advantage\u201d\u2014I mean, think about how\u2014\u201cthat I leave and that I go back to the Father.\u201d Now, that sounds contradictory; doesn\u2019t it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.D.:<\/strong> Think about how absurd that must have sounded to those first disciples when they heard it. How awesome would it have been to have had Jesus as a constant companion for three years? Every night, you go back\u2014you sit around the campfire \/ you\u2019ve got a theological question\u2014bam!\u2014Jesus answers it. You\u2019re at a party\u2014you run out of Chex<sup>\u2122<\/sup> Mix\u2014bam!\u2014Jesus multiplies the Chex Mix. [Laughter] Your dog dies\u2014bam!\u2014Jesus raises the dog back from the dead. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour cat dies\u2014Jesus digs a hole to help you bury the cat; because, you know, that\u2019s how He feels about cats. [Laughter] That\u2019s probably not <em>exactly<\/em> what it was like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We have a <em>large<\/em>, large degree of listeners who love cats. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019re talking about our cat-loving listeners.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. D.:<\/strong> I\u2019m sure that will be edited out. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We apologize for our guest, right now\u2014continue on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.D.:<\/strong> Alright; so, I mean, it would have been just <em>amazing<\/em> to have Jesus as a companion. Yet, Jesus said: \u201cIf you really understood who the Holy Spirit was and what was being offered to you in Him \/ if you had to choose Jesus beside you or the Spirit inside of you, you would choose the Spirit inside of you.\u201d I think it\u2019s a very sobering question. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you ask the average Christian: \u201cChoose, right now\u2014you could have Jesus beside you this evening or the Holy Spirit inside of you,\u201d most of them, if they were honest, would say, \u201cI\u2019d choose Jesus beside.\u201d If you told them that Jesus was going to come and be the new pastor of their church, they would be <em>ecstatic<\/em>: \u201cJesus of Nazareth preaching every week!\u201d Yet, they\u2019re not nearly as excited about the Spirit of God inside of them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat shows us just how far removed we are from the <em>reality<\/em> of the promise that He was giving us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; that\u2019s J.D. Greear, who by the way, is starting a radio program\u2014he\u2019s going to be heard on the Moody Radio Network. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Are you going to be the voice of that broadcast too? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They haven\u2019t called me; I don\u2019t think so. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I mean, I don\u2019t know where this ends. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know how great it is to have these emerging young leaders, who are holding firm to what the Scriptures teach, and calling a new generation to walk in obedience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And another leader that we had on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014Jen Wilkin, a young lady from Dallas, Texas\u2014actually, what\u2019s the name of the exact town there, Bob?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think she\u2019s in Flower Mound. That\u2019s where\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Flower Mound, Texas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She attends church at the Village Church in Flower Mound, Texas\u2014has a Bible study for women in the Dallas area, and she\u2019s written a couple of books. She speaks nationally. You had lunch with her a few months ago; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Barbara and I did\u2014we just enjoyed her and Sally Lloyd-Jones. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did she join you for lunch as well?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. And Crawford Loritts\u2014so, it was quite a\u2014it was quite a table we were sitting at.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s a pretty good table, right there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, Jen came in, not long ago, to talk with us about the attributes of God, and how important it is for us to understand the attributes of God, and how knowing God helps you better know yourself and vice versa.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jen:<\/strong> You know, it\u2019s been said that the knowledge of God and the knowledge of self always go hand in hand. There is no true knowledge of self <em>apart<\/em> from the knowledge of God. It <em>follows<\/em> that, if we\u2019re going to have true self-knowledge, we need to understand what the Bible says is true about God and have a pretty good grip on that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that I encourage women to do, when they\u2019re studying the Bible, is to read, looking first for what it says about God Himself. I\u2019ve just learned, over the years, that that\u2019s a more difficult request than we might think\u2014that many of us have an underdeveloped vocabulary when it comes to discussing the nature and character of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I wanted to write a book that helped us to form our thinking around what the Bible has to say about who God is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I had a friend ask me, a number of months ago: \u201cWhat were the most influential books in my life?\u201d I don\u2019t know that I had stopped to think about that in awhile. I thought he wanted a top-ten list. I put it together; and the number one book on my list\u2014probably the most influential book\u2014was J.I. Packer\u2019s book, <em>Knowing God<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The reason is because\u2014just what you\u2019re saying\u2014it gave me a picture of God and understanding of God that was more exalted than the smaller picture I had in my own mind. There is something about understanding just how amazing \/ just how spectacular God is that changes everything.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Right; I think that we have a tendency to diminish who God is naturally. We tend to form him after our own likeness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause God is so other than we are, and because it is difficult to wrap our human brains around that, we default to thinking about ways to sort of frame him up\u2014within our human understanding\u2014that diminishes who He is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So it\u2019s\u2014our thought naturally gravitates to: \u201cGod is like us only better.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And that\u2019s kind of our\u2014\u201cIt\u2019s the best us you could be,\u201d is kind of \u201cThat\u2019s who God is.\u201d [Laughter] But that\u2019s not who the Bible\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No; and that\u2019s pretty sad, too, when you think about it\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s who you think God is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014kind of adding up all of humanity and trying to make that into God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re going to have good self-knowledge\u2014appropriate, accurate self-knowledge\u2014you have to begin with God and think backward from Him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes; exactly. But what we have a tendency to do\u2014is to turn and measure ourselves against the person sitting next to us or the person that we know from work\u2014someone who, usually, we\u2019re going to hand-pick so that we measure up favorably when we place ourselves next to them. But when you measure yourself next to an immeasurable, transcendent God, it teaches you to place yourself rightly in the scheme of things; and it creates worship in us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWorship is something that we <em>need<\/em> to be able to flourish as creatures. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We talked about influential books. I know Psalm 111, verse 10, was an influential verse for you. Was this early in your life that you came across this verse and it kind of grabbed you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jen:<\/strong> Yes; fairly early, I hit young adulthood and started to become increasingly aware of my own limits\u2014I think it\u2019s a pretty common thing that happens. I came across that verse that said, \u201cThe fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom\u2026\u201d It really stopped me in my tracks; because I just did not expect that the word, \u201cfear,\u201d would be where it was in that verse. I wanted it to say: \u201cThe love of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,\u201d or \u201cThe worship of the Lord\u2026\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, then, it became really important to develop a biblical understanding of what fear is being talked about there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou find that in Hebrews, Chapter 12\u2014that it\u2019s the right reverence and awe that you should feel towards someone who is worthy of it. That made more sense, you know, that we begin to become wise when we rightly acknowledge God for who He is and we place him where He belongs in our estimation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, again, that\u2019s Jen Wilkin, talking about the attributes of God. Again, I have to smile. We mentioned that one of Bill Bright\u2019s core messages was his message on the Holy Spirit. Another of his core messages was on the attributes of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He loved to teach about who God is and just continually exhorted us to remember the truth of who God is and who you are, because you are not going to rightly understand who you are unless you remember and recall who God is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think you always told me that that message on the attributes of God had about 27 points and, often, went on for more than\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014a long time. [Laughter] You know what?\u2014when you\u2019re Bill Bright, you can get away with anything\u2014you really can.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, we also have had the opportunity to have, as a studio guest, a young man, who gives leadership to the International Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention, and has just recently been named as the pastor at McLean Bible Church in McLean, Virginia\u2014that\u2019s David Platt. David is an author and a speaker. He is best known for calling Christians to live radically. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI so appreciate the fact that he understands that truth, and grace, and mercy, and compassion all have to come together. We don\u2019t devalue truth; but if our lives are not marked by grace, and mercy, and compassion, then we\u2019ve gotten something wrong with the truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> David is one of these men that I believe God is already used mightily, but his best years are yet ahead.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> First Corinthians 12 talks about, when one part of the body suffers, the whole body suffers. We do have brothers and sisters in Christ, around the world, who are suffering and dying for the gospel. One way we\u2019ve got to come alongside them and suffer with them is just by praying for them. I would encourage a mom or a dad\u2014something we do with our kids\u2014is to, in an age-appropriate way, share stories of suffering and persecution in the world so they know it\u2019s not easy to be a follower of Christ in this world: \u201cWe have brothers and sisters in Christ who we ought to be praying for; so we\u2019re praying for them.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are ways through different ministries to actually be a part of giving to them and writing to them. I mean, there\u2019s kids whose parents have been put in prison for the gospel. So, for our children to have opportunities to write to other children and encourage them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, there are some real practical things like that; but then, also, to realize\u2014this is something we try to do with our kids: \u201cHey guys, it\u2019s really costly for some people around the world to share the gospel. Thankfully, we\u2019re able to share the gospel where we live. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cAs we talk about the persecuted church, I think one of the ways we can best serve and support the persecuted church is by taking advantage of the freedom we do have to share the gospel. If <em>we<\/em> are not sharing the gospel here, and they\u2019re dying to share the gospel over there, then there\u2019s a major disconnect.\u201d I want to encourage my kids to <em>maximize<\/em> the opportunities we have to share, right here, as they hear news about this happening to Christians in this part of West Africa or the Middle East. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> This is about the Great Commission\u2014this is about Jesus commanding us to go. The nature of the family in America tends to be, I think\u2014even within the Christian community\u2014a little self-absorbed \/ maybe not just \u201ca little\u201d either, by the way. We need to be <em>thinking<\/em> about other people in other countries. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe didn\u2019t do this, you know, <em>great<\/em> as we were raising our kids; but we actually spent the better part of two years reading through a devotional before school that was a quick\u2014I don\u2019t know; maybe a three- to five-minute story of people, who were missionaries in other eras to other countries\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0\u2014helping our kids get pictures and images of what it looked like to be heroic for the gospel. Sharing those stories, we heard about persecution. We read about people giving their lives. That\u2019s not happening in America; but it is happening, right now, overseas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; it is. We do a very similar thing, just by exposing them to biographies and that sort of thing. Part of the reason we do that is because we want to show them good models of what it means to suffer for Christ. I know this is a point where some people may start to tune me out; but if you just hang with me for a second, we want to raise our kids up so that they\u2019re willing to go to West Africa or the Middle East with the gospel, at great cost. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is, as a pastor, what I was intentional about doing\u2014was trying to encourage our families to raise their kids up to spend their lives for the spread of the gospel around the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat may seem extreme to people. That may seem like: \u201cNow, you\u2019re really talking radical Christianity.\u201d This is not radical Christianity \/ this is basic Christianity. Jesus said: \u201cYou follow Me. You\u2019re going to be like a sheep among wolves. You\u2019re going to go and find yourself in difficult, dangerous places by My design. But you\u2019re going to be there for the spread of the gospel and for My glory. It\u2019s worth it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want my kids to <em>believe<\/em> that there\u2019s no better way to spend their lives than making the gospel known\u2014right where they live, around the world, even in hard places. So, we\u2019ll talk\u2014we\u2019ll just kind of dream every once in a while: \u201cHey, what if God leads you to this country?!\u201d \u201cWhat if God leads you to that country, where there\u2019s suffering right now?\u201d\u2014and to realize: \u201cJust because we\u2019re born in the United States, doesn\u2019t mean we\u2019ve got a pass on suffering for the spread of the gospel. One of the ways we serve our persecuted brothers and sisters is by actually going alongside them.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Again, that\u2019s David Platt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s interesting to think, Dennis\u2014that back when <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> started, 25 years ago today,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014David Platt wasn\u2019t born\u2014barely. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014nobody knew his name; nobody knew Jen Wilkins\u2019 name, or Francis Chan, or J. D. Greear. You have to wonder: \u201cWho is it that God is going to raise up in the next decade or the next 20 years?\u201d I don\u2019t know what their names will be, but my prayer is that they will be faithful to God\u2019s Word in the same way that these folks have been. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It could be, right now, we\u2019re speaking to a young man \/ a young lady\u2014who may even be being raised, right now, by their mom and dad, who they\u2019re being forced to listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. My exhortation to you, as a young lady \/ a young man: \u201cIf God gives you the call, answer it. Dream great dreams for God. Expect God to do big things and to use you, maybe, to do some of them.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; well, happy birthday!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Happy birthday to you, Bob. It\u2019s just been an outstanding adventure and a privilege to be on the ride with you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A good 25 years; and we\u2019ll see what God has in store\u2014right?\u2014going forward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No doubt about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> In fact, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear from some of the people who have marked this ministry over the last quarter of a century by the way they\u2019ve marked your life. In fact, we\u2019re going to hear from people who have gone on to heaven\u2014Bill Bright, Chuck Colson, Howard Hendricks\u2014and one guy who\u2019s still alive\u2014Josh McDowell. That all comes up tomorrow. Hope our listeners can join us for what will be a memorable program tomorrow.<br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\"><u>donating today<\/u><\/a> to help defray the costs? \u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. 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