{"id":304720,"date":"2017-10-11T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-10-11T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/loving-my-prodigal\/"},"modified":"2017-10-11T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-10-11T15:00:00","slug":"loving-my-prodigal","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/loving-my-prodigal\/","title":{"rendered":"Loving My Prodigal"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dave Harvey and Paul Gilbert describe what it&#8217;s like for the person living with a prodigal. They explain the indicators that tell\u00a0the person when it&#8217;s time to release the prodigal and let them go.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-10-11.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:18","filesize":"25M","filesize_raw":"26214417","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2840,2841,2873],"tags":[5330,2699,4296,6337],"podcast_series":[8239],"cwp_profile":[3284,9470],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304720","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-addiction","category-anger-and-rebellion","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","tag-forgive","tag-forgiveness","tag-prodigals","tag-wayward","podcast_series-letting-go","cwp_profile-dave-harvey","cwp_profile-paul-gilbert","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304720\/loving-my-prodigal","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304720\/loving-my-prodigal","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"B4kGeb9L91\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/loving-my-prodigal\/\">Loving My Prodigal<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/loving-my-prodigal\/embed\/#?secret=B4kGeb9L91\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Loving My Prodigal&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"B4kGeb9L91\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-10-11.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-10-11.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Every child makes bad choices, some more than others. The question for us, as parents is: \u201cDo we let our children experience the pain that comes with those bad choices or not?\u201d Here\u2019s Paul Gilbert.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>If my child is lying, repeatedly, to me, then it\u2019s obvious that paying for their Wi-Fi, their cable television, and their cell phone is probably not going to deliver us to the place that we want to be. We have to begin to think about: \u201cWhat does it look like to rearrange our relationship in a way where the child has to <em>bear<\/em> the consequences for that distrust?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday October 11<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. If you\u2019re the parent of a wayward child, you\u2019ve got to learn how to be as wise as a serpent and as innocent as a dove in applying rugged love. We\u2019ll talk more about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know what today is, Bob?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What today is? It\u2019s Wednesday; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>This is a special day!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It is Tonda Nations\u2019 birthday.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Oh, of course!\u2014our Tonda, who is our researcher for more than two decades\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014she is the one who makes sure\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014very ably preparing for the host and co-host of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. I thought: \u201cYou know, we have been doing this broadcast for a quarter century. Have we ever sung <em>Happy Birthday<\/em>?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No; and there\u2019s a reason we why we\u2019ve never sung <em>Happy Birthday<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You can turn my mic off\u2014that\u2019s fine\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but I want Keith to join in\u2014Keith?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Keith:<\/strong> Okay!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and everybody who\u2019s out in the \/ the engineer room\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Out in the control room.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Keith:<\/strong> And everybody that\u2019s listening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes! That\u2019s right!\u2014to sing <em>Happy Birthday<\/em> to Tonda. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Here we go!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Lead us. [All sing <em>Happy Birthday<\/em>. During the singing]: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe loves it!!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Add a little harmony, there at the end. [Singing]: And many more!! [Laughter] Happy birthday, Tonda!!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Do you feel special, Tonda?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tonda:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You are turning red as a beet, though. I love it; I absolutely love it! You\u2019re the best! And I wish our listeners knew what a high-quality team we have, here, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. And among them is Tonda who has served ably. Thank you so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, we can just say: \u201cIf you listen to this program and you say, \u2018You know, I really get something out of that program\u2019, it\u2019s only partially because of anything that Dennis and I do\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly right! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Tonda gets the credit\u2014no doubt about it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a couple of guests today, and we\u2019re talking about a very important subject\u2014the idea of: \u201cHow do you live with a prodigal?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHow do you put up with the nightmare that a prodigal can drag you into and keep you into?\u201d Most of us are thinking, at this point, of a prodigal child.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; but there can be other kinds of prodigals. There can be a prodigal spouse; there can be a prodigal brother or sister \/ an extended family relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Or a prodigal friend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You can have somebody that you\u2019ve been in close fellowship with, who says: \u201cYou know what? No more.\u201d There\u2019s an ache that goes along with that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dave Harvey and Paul Gilbert join us, here, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks, guys, for writing this book, <em>Letting Go<\/em>, and equipping folks to know how to handle tough assignments in life. Welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s great to be here, Dennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Thank you so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dave Harvey is a teaching pastor at Summit Church in Naples, Florida. He\u2019s married to Kim. Paul Gilbert is lead pastor at Four Oaks Community Church in Tallahassee, Florida\u2014home of the Seminoles. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He and his wife Susan and their four children live there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I have mentioned, they have written a book called, <em>Letting Go<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow would you describe what is taking place in a person\u2019s life who <em>loves<\/em> a prodigal?\u2014maybe it\u2019s a child, maybe it\u2019s a friend, a family member. Explain the nightmare\u2014what it looks like \/ where people find themselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, the person that loves a prodigal finds themselves living in a tension \/ living in a very difficult\u2014what some might feel is a nightmare\u2014in that they have these desires to see them moving forward. Much of their time, much of their energy, much of their prayers are occupied with ideas and \u201cHow to do it differently,\u201d \u201cHow to think about it differently,\u201d \u201cHow to approach it differently.\u201d\u00a0 They are seizing every opportunity they can to <em>talk<\/em> to their prodigal with the unfortunate assumption that, somehow, more conversation is going to produce fruit. That is, oftentimes, the expression of their <em>fear<\/em>; because they live, day and night, with this fear. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then kind of over all of that is this shame that they carry\u2014that is imbedded in a question that plagues their soul\u2014and the question is: \u201cIs this somehow my fault? Is their behavior a direct reflection on ways I didn\u2019t love them or ways that I didn\u2019t lead them?\u201d It\u2019s a question, sometimes, that they\u2019ll talk openly about\u2014I hope they do\u2014but, oftentimes, it\u2019s a question they will not give voice to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It can cause them to go underground and not share it with anyone, because they are so ashamed that they\u2019ll get tagged by what is happening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No experience drives people underground quicker then shame. It\u2019s the thing that we are most reluctant to talk about\u2014we feel so <em>exposed<\/em> as we begin to bring out exactly what we are feeling.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let\u2019s be honest, though. If it\u2019s a prodigal spouse or a prodigal child, there may be things that we\u2019ve done, as the other spouse or as the parent, that have influenced a child or a spouse to want out. If we do an honest evaluation, should we not bear some responsibility for this other person leaving and becoming wayward?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And this is, Bob, where it\u2019s so important that we are involved in local churches\u2014that we have pastors \/ that we have trusted friends\u2014because we want to get the community involved in such important questions so that we never find ourselves just analyzing ourselves for how effective we\u2019ve been in a certain role God has given us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, for me, I want to know whether I\u2019m doing a good job, as a parent\u2014not simply because I <em>feel<\/em> that way and not simply because Kim might be giving me a good report\u2014but because the people around me have a general sense that they know the rhythm of my life; and I\u2019m, in general, trying to be obedient and trying to please God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf that\u2019s in place, then I think that gives me something to wage war against the shame with and something to be able to stand on that isn\u2019t simply my subjective feeling.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Paul, a part of the chaos and the nightmare of being in a situation in a relationship with a prodigal\u2014especially one that is up-close and personal, like a spouse\/ like a child\u2014is that, usually, they are doing things that undermine trust. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And there\u2019s a <em>lot<\/em> of suspicion taking place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Absolutely! I think one of the things that we talk about in helping the offended spouse or the parents\u2014or whoever it happens to be\u2014the pastor: \u201cWhen is it time to release this person? When is the time to let them go?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you just mentioned, Dennis, is exactly true. One of those indicators is going to be: \u201cCan this person, on a most basic level, keep any sort of commitment? Can they indicate, at all, in a truthful way that they are going to follow through with what they say they are going to do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Or \u201cIs their life just one layer of lie on top of another?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>And it\u2019s kind of like an onion\u2014you keep peeling it back\u2014and it\u2019s just one more lie after another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave and I were talking earlier\u2014there was a couple that we were ministry to. The wife had uncovered a number of things going on with the husband. I remember the day, distinctly, in the counseling office at the church, where I implored him to go ahead and get it all out\u2014whatever the lies were\u2014to do it all at once. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOtherwise, every time he says, \u201cThat\u2019s all there is,\u201d and she discovers more, it\u2019s like trauma reintroduced all over again\u2014this sort of progressive disclosure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI told them there\u2019s a risk in doing that: \u201cYou may lose your marriage. It may be so horrific\u2014what\u2019s been going on\u2014that she just can\u2019t remain any longer.\u201d I said: \u201cBut I do know that\u2014if you come forward and peel back all those onions \/ the layers of the onion\u2014this is the only way that you have a pathway moving forward, where she knows: \u201cI\u2019m not going to hear anymore at a later date.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As a side note to that, that\u2019s one of the reasons why\u2014when we talk to couples, who are considering marriage \/ engaged couples\u2014they say: \u201cWell, do I have to tell about everything in my past?\u201d I don\u2019t know if you have to tell every detail of everything in your past; but you certainly don\u2019t want to get into marriage and have something come up that your spouse looks at and goes: \u201cWhy didn\u2019t I know about that? Why didn\u2019t you tell me? How did you keep that from me?\u201d When those seeds of mistrust are sown in a relationship, those are stubborn seeds\u2014the roots go down deep and that kind does not come out easily.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>No; I think one of the things you can look for\u2014and this is in terms of pastoring those who are trying to love their prodigals\u2014is simply this: \u201cDo you think you are the one discovering all the information\u2014all the lies \/ the deceptions? And as you do, the offender \/ the prodigal has a convenient story to sort of match the evidence that you\u2019ve discovered. Is that the dynamic?\u201d or \u201cIs the prodigal actually coming forward with information on their own \/ self-disclosure confessions?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause if they are <em>not<\/em>, undoubtedly, almost al\u2014I don\u2019t want to say every time\u2014but almost always, there\u2019s more to know. That\u2019s always a good indicator of a repentant heart: \u201cAm I seeking to bring my sin to light, to confess it, and then to trust the Lord to handle the results of what will happen?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Paul, you mentioned, earlier, that there is a time to let go. Maybe it\u2019s after the onion has been peeled\u2014not by the perpetrator \/ not by the prodigal\u2014but it\u2019s by the spouse\u2014and you\u2019re feeling like you\u2019re the one uncovering the deceit. Repentance is not clear: \u201cHow do you know when you\u2019re supposed to let go?\u201d and \u201cWhat does letting go look like?\u201d\u2014because it\u2019s not necessarily divorce.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Right; right.Part of it is something Dave mentioned earlier: \u201cDo you feel like you are having perpetual conversation that continually brings you back to the same point?\u201d There\u2019s simply no move forward \/ there\u2019s no change\u2014you\u2019re sort of talking things to death. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Your words have no impact. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Past behavior, oftentimes, is an accurate predictor of future behavior. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIs there a sense in which you feel like your words no longer have <em>influence<\/em> with that person?\u201d\u2014the other person has sort of <em>stopped<\/em> listening to you. I think that\u2014in order to think about: \u201cWhat it means to begin to let go\u201d: \u201cHow do I arrange my life \/ arrange the life of the prodigal?\u201d in a way that is commiserate with what they are entrusting to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf my child is lying, repeatedly, to me, then it\u2019s obvious that paying for their Wi-Fi, their cable television, and their cell phone is probably not going to deliver us to the place that we want to be. We have to begin to think about: \u201cWhat does it look like to rearrange our relationship in a way where the child has to <em>bear<\/em> the consequences for that distrust?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And let me just add something that I think can be really important; because, sometimes, when we come upon these situations, it\u2019s really easy to kind of bifurcate the world into sin and righteousness and: \u201cThey\u2019re just moving towards sin; and therefore, we have to relate to them in that way.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think getting some kind of physiological evaluation done\u2014encouraging them to see a doctor and to find out whether there are any physiological components that are at work that could be causing or, at least, exacerbating the behavior that you\u2019re encountering\u2014could be a really important piece in diagnosing exactly what\u2019s happening\u00a0 and knowing whether we need to be letting them go, or we need to be trying a round of medication, or we need to be getting our pastors involved in a more deliberate way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I just wanted folks to hear\u2014in letting them go\u2014especially parents, you may need to let your child suffer the consequences, which is what you were talking about a little bit earlier\u2014let them hit the wall and deal with the consequences. That means stopping paying for the Wi-Fi \/ the insurance\u2014all of that may put them on their own two feet and out of a car; but it may end up, ultimately, causing them to realize: \u201cI don\u2019t want to live this way for the rest of my life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; so let me\u2014in the middle of this, just, again\u2014throw out the kind of scenario that will happen: \u201cA child has left home; become wayward; cut off things with mom and dad. Mom and dad are praying for that child\u2014they have prayed; they\u2019ve reached out; they\u2019ve pursued; they\u2019ve been rebuffed\u2014now, it\u2019s just prayer. They get a call one night; and the child says: \u2018I\u2019m in trouble, and I need help.\u2019 And maybe it\u2019s: \u2018Can I come home?\u2019 Or\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It may be: \u201cI\u2019m in jail.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: \u201c\u2019<\/strong>I\u2019m in jail. Would you come and bail me out?\u2019 This is the third time in four years that they\u2019ve gotten a call like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThe wife says to the husband: \u2018We have to help; we\u2019ve got to open the home; we\u2019ve got to go bail them out.\u2019 The husband says, \u2018I think we leave them in jail.\u2019 How do you make that decision in that moment?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, I know there\u2019s a context and there\u2019s no one-size-fits-all here. I\u2019m not looking for: \u201cWhat\u2019s the right answer?\u201d \/ I\u2019m looking for: \u201cHow do you gain wisdom on what\u2019s the right answer in your moment?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Prayer is never obligatory when it comes to these kinds of these things. So, we are praying\u2014I don\u2019t want to just jump over that. Not making that decision <em>alone<\/em> can be really helpful\u2014so soliciting counsel from trusted people, if they are available in that emergency situation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut again, part of letting them go is to, ultimately, allow them to experience the very thing you are encountering. To respond in a fearful, reactive way is to miss the point\u2014I mean, you\u2019ve really come to this time. It may be that there is some help \/ some way to express love to them in that situation that alleviates some of the problem but, then, allows them to bear the consequence for it. It may be that\u2014with where they are\u2014it\u2019s better to just say: \u201cYou\u2019ve made certain choices. We\u2019ve made our appeals. We love you; we\u2019re praying for you. Call us as soon as you get through this,\u201d or it may be to rush down and to begin to interact and ease their pain in some way, <em>emotionally<\/em>, without necessarily resolving things, financially. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>There was a family in our church, who had an adult son who was wayward. He found himself homeless. The parents were aware of this and had stayed in touch with him. One night, he either called or showed up on the doorstep and said, \u201cI need a place to stay.\u201d One of the things that they did was\u2014they said: \u201cYou can stay here tonight; but in the morning, we\u2019re going to talk about what it means for you to learn to care for and provide for yourself.\u201d In other words, even as he was coming in\u2014even as they were helping him \/ doing him good\u2014at the same time, they were communicating: \u201cThis is grace. We are not starting this pattern back over again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWe\u2019re going to have a substantive conversation about this.\u201d He knew that, even as he was being allowed back in the home, it was temporary and that there was a larger conversation going to happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I don\u2019t want to sound judgmental here; but I think the Christian community, sometimes, can almost falsify love in rescuing people, who continually find themselves in desperate financial condition. They ask for the Christian community to bail them out, repeatedly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Yes; I think one of the things, Dennis, that you are alluding to there\u2014this is important, I think, for pastors \/ counselors\u2014others who are working with those who are dealing with prodigals\u2014is to prepare them for the fact that their actions \/ oftentimes, rugged love will seem unloving\u2014will be judged, by other people, as being unloving; because there\u2019s a misunderstanding about what they are attempting to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They may not know the whole context of what\u2019s taking place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. Again, this is why this stuff works in the local church, where there\u2019s unity in the leadership \/ where there\u2019s a biblical framework for things like church discipline, resolving conflict according to Mathew 18. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a great example of this in 1 Corinthians 5, where Paul explicitly tells the church in Corinth to let this man go \/ to set him outside the fellowship; because he is having this illicit relationship with his father\u2019s wife. But the goal is <em>always<\/em> redemptive\u2014the goal is that he will return. The goal is not to <em>hurt<\/em>, the goal is to love; and by loving them, to see them reconcile and brought back to God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Here\u2019s where I\u2019d recommend that listeners get a copy of your book; because what you outline in here is really how you can spot a prodigal, who is faking phony repentance. You talk about, in here, the person who is a prodigal\u2014does not want to assume responsibility. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe cries out as though \u201cI\u2019m the victim.\u201d If the Christian community can become, I think, conversant and understanding what you guys are talking about in your book, <em>Letting Go<\/em>, they can begin to, I think, do a better job of church discipline, and of really offering restoration and healing to people, who need the kind of love with boundaries that they need to, ultimately, come clean.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think just the idea of rugged love is something that all of us need to be reminded of. There are times when love needs teeth, and that\u2019s not second nature for us. Most of us are swayed by sentiment, and we get soft in the moment, and we want to do the thing that may be the easier thing to do\u2014maybe the seemingly loving thing to do \/ the thing that will get the approval of our friends. What we need to do is have some love with teeth in it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The love with teeth, I think, is based really upon a heart of courage that says: \u201cYou know what? I want to seek the best of the one loved.\u201d It may not be the easy thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want one of you\u2014you guys are both pastors. We\u2019ve been talking, this week, about prodigals. You can look at each other and decide who prays for our listening audience. But we\u2019ve got some listeners, who are facing some very difficult circumstances with a spouse \/ with a child. Maybe the child\u2019s an in-house prodigal\u2014talked to a friend, who\u2019s experiencing that right now. Maybe the child\u2019s an adult child and has just repeated this situation over and over and over again. Would you pray that God would give them courage to know how to provide rugged love \/ rugged grace in the midst a rugged life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; while you figure out which one in going to pray, let me let our listeners know about how to get a copy of the book, <em>Letting Go<\/em>: <em>Rugged Love for Wayward Souls<\/em>. You can order it from us on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order as well\u20141-800-FL-TODAY. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s also a 15-day Bible study that\u2019s been put together that includes video resources and a discussion guide so that parents or an individual\u2014a husband or a wife\u2014can simply go through this material on their own to help steer your thinking if you\u2019re in the midst of a situation with a wayward individual in your family. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about the 15-day Bible study and about the book, <em>Letting Go: Rugged Love for Wayward Souls<\/em>. Again the website: FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order the book from us by phone at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, L\u201d as in life, and then the word, TODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think <em>Letting Go<\/em>, Bob, ought to be on everybody\u2019s bookshelf\u2014not necessarily for the prodigal in <em>your<\/em> life\u2014but maybe a friend \/ maybe a friend.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTwo pastors have been doing arm wrestling, here, in the studio to see who gets to pray for the listening audience. Who won the arm wrestling?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would love to get us started and Paul can finish us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLord, we are fallen, wayward people; and we love to do things our own way. We feel these wayward impulses, and we realize that You have broken in\u2014in a way that\u2019s amazing, in a way that\u2019s powerful and transformational. You have saved us and shown us a love and a mercy that we do not deserve. Yet, You have also placed us in a fallen world, where all around us are people that we love and people that love others, where they are making decisions, even though they profess Your name, to run toward the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe pray, first, that You would bring them comfort, Lord\u2014that the words that we\u2019ve spoken might be an encouragement to them; might inspire their hope and their faith; Lord, might turn them toward You; might send them to their local church and to their pastors. But Lord, we also pray that you would break loose in the lives of people that are locked up in fear and in shame and that You would grant them the courage, and the faith, and the trust, and the confidence to be able to exercise a love that is rugged\u2014a love that sees beyond the present to the future; a love that sees beyond the present to repentance and is willing to walk the hard road, because they believe that, ultimately, You will be glorified.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLord, Your Word tells us that, if any lacks wisdom, to boldly approach You to ask\u2014that You are anxious to give us Your truth \/ to give us Your wisdom from Your Word. Lord, that\u2019s what I pray, right now, for everyone who is listening\u2014Father, that You give them a heart of faith \/ a heart of wisdom\u2014that they would be able to seek You \/ that You would draw close to them as they draw close to You. Lord, that You would bring the necessary resources, and people, and counsel into their lives to be able to move them forward on a path that honors You \/ on a path that is most loving for their prodigal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThank You for this time. We <em>commit<\/em> our prodigals to You, Lord. May all the prodigals, one day, run home. In Your name we pray. Amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:18"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25M"],"filesize_raw":["26214417"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304720.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304720.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Harvey and Paul Gilbert describe what it's like for the person living with a prodigal. They explain the indicators that tell\u00a0the person when it's time to release the prodigal and let them go.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-10-11.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Every child makes bad choices, some more than others. The question for us, as parents is: \u201cDo we let our children experience the pain that comes with those bad choices or not?\u201d Here\u2019s Paul Gilbert.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>If my child is lying, repeatedly, to me, then it\u2019s obvious that paying for their Wi-Fi, their cable television, and their cell phone is probably not going to deliver us to the place that we want to be. We have to begin to think about: \u201cWhat does it look like to rearrange our relationship in a way where the child has to <em>bear<\/em> the consequences for that distrust?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday October 11<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. If you\u2019re the parent of a wayward child, you\u2019ve got to learn how to be as wise as a serpent and as innocent as a dove in applying rugged love. We\u2019ll talk more about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know what today is, Bob?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What today is? It\u2019s Wednesday; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>This is a special day!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It is Tonda Nations\u2019 birthday.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Oh, of course!\u2014our Tonda, who is our researcher for more than two decades\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014she is the one who makes sure\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014very ably preparing for the host and co-host of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. I thought: \u201cYou know, we have been doing this broadcast for a quarter century. Have we ever sung <em>Happy Birthday<\/em>?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No; and there\u2019s a reason we why we\u2019ve never sung <em>Happy Birthday<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You can turn my mic off\u2014that\u2019s fine\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but I want Keith to join in\u2014Keith?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Keith:<\/strong> Okay!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and everybody who\u2019s out in the \/ the engineer room\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Out in the control room.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Keith:<\/strong> And everybody that\u2019s listening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes! That\u2019s right!\u2014to sing <em>Happy Birthday<\/em> to Tonda. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Here we go!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Lead us. [All sing <em>Happy Birthday<\/em>. During the singing]: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe loves it!!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Add a little harmony, there at the end. [Singing]: And many more!! [Laughter] Happy birthday, Tonda!!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Do you feel special, Tonda?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tonda:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You are turning red as a beet, though. I love it; I absolutely love it! You\u2019re the best! And I wish our listeners knew what a high-quality team we have, here, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. And among them is Tonda who has served ably. Thank you so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, we can just say: \u201cIf you listen to this program and you say, \u2018You know, I really get something out of that program\u2019, it\u2019s only partially because of anything that Dennis and I do\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s exactly right! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Tonda gets the credit\u2014no doubt about it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a couple of guests today, and we\u2019re talking about a very important subject\u2014the idea of: \u201cHow do you live with a prodigal?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHow do you put up with the nightmare that a prodigal can drag you into and keep you into?\u201d Most of us are thinking, at this point, of a prodigal child.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; but there can be other kinds of prodigals. There can be a prodigal spouse; there can be a prodigal brother or sister \/ an extended family relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Or a prodigal friend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You can have somebody that you\u2019ve been in close fellowship with, who says: \u201cYou know what? No more.\u201d There\u2019s an ache that goes along with that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dave Harvey and Paul Gilbert join us, here, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks, guys, for writing this book, <em>Letting Go<\/em>, and equipping folks to know how to handle tough assignments in life. Welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s great to be here, Dennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Thank you so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dave Harvey is a teaching pastor at Summit Church in Naples, Florida. He\u2019s married to Kim. Paul Gilbert is lead pastor at Four Oaks Community Church in Tallahassee, Florida\u2014home of the Seminoles. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He and his wife Susan and their four children live there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I have mentioned, they have written a book called, <em>Letting Go<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow would you describe what is taking place in a person\u2019s life who <em>loves<\/em> a prodigal?\u2014maybe it\u2019s a child, maybe it\u2019s a friend, a family member. Explain the nightmare\u2014what it looks like \/ where people find themselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, the person that loves a prodigal finds themselves living in a tension \/ living in a very difficult\u2014what some might feel is a nightmare\u2014in that they have these desires to see them moving forward. Much of their time, much of their energy, much of their prayers are occupied with ideas and \u201cHow to do it differently,\u201d \u201cHow to think about it differently,\u201d \u201cHow to approach it differently.\u201d\u00a0 They are seizing every opportunity they can to <em>talk<\/em> to their prodigal with the unfortunate assumption that, somehow, more conversation is going to produce fruit. That is, oftentimes, the expression of their <em>fear<\/em>; because they live, day and night, with this fear. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then kind of over all of that is this shame that they carry\u2014that is imbedded in a question that plagues their soul\u2014and the question is: \u201cIs this somehow my fault? Is their behavior a direct reflection on ways I didn\u2019t love them or ways that I didn\u2019t lead them?\u201d It\u2019s a question, sometimes, that they\u2019ll talk openly about\u2014I hope they do\u2014but, oftentimes, it\u2019s a question they will not give voice to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It can cause them to go underground and not share it with anyone, because they are so ashamed that they\u2019ll get tagged by what is happening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No experience drives people underground quicker then shame. It\u2019s the thing that we are most reluctant to talk about\u2014we feel so <em>exposed<\/em> as we begin to bring out exactly what we are feeling.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let\u2019s be honest, though. If it\u2019s a prodigal spouse or a prodigal child, there may be things that we\u2019ve done, as the other spouse or as the parent, that have influenced a child or a spouse to want out. If we do an honest evaluation, should we not bear some responsibility for this other person leaving and becoming wayward?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And this is, Bob, where it\u2019s so important that we are involved in local churches\u2014that we have pastors \/ that we have trusted friends\u2014because we want to get the community involved in such important questions so that we never find ourselves just analyzing ourselves for how effective we\u2019ve been in a certain role God has given us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, for me, I want to know whether I\u2019m doing a good job, as a parent\u2014not simply because I <em>feel<\/em> that way and not simply because Kim might be giving me a good report\u2014but because the people around me have a general sense that they know the rhythm of my life; and I\u2019m, in general, trying to be obedient and trying to please God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf that\u2019s in place, then I think that gives me something to wage war against the shame with and something to be able to stand on that isn\u2019t simply my subjective feeling.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Paul, a part of the chaos and the nightmare of being in a situation in a relationship with a prodigal\u2014especially one that is up-close and personal, like a spouse\/ like a child\u2014is that, usually, they are doing things that undermine trust. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And there\u2019s a <em>lot<\/em> of suspicion taking place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Absolutely! I think one of the things that we talk about in helping the offended spouse or the parents\u2014or whoever it happens to be\u2014the pastor: \u201cWhen is it time to release this person? When is the time to let them go?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you just mentioned, Dennis, is exactly true. One of those indicators is going to be: \u201cCan this person, on a most basic level, keep any sort of commitment? Can they indicate, at all, in a truthful way that they are going to follow through with what they say they are going to do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Or \u201cIs their life just one layer of lie on top of another?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>And it\u2019s kind of like an onion\u2014you keep peeling it back\u2014and it\u2019s just one more lie after another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave and I were talking earlier\u2014there was a couple that we were ministry to. The wife had uncovered a number of things going on with the husband. I remember the day, distinctly, in the counseling office at the church, where I implored him to go ahead and get it all out\u2014whatever the lies were\u2014to do it all at once. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOtherwise, every time he says, \u201cThat\u2019s all there is,\u201d and she discovers more, it\u2019s like trauma reintroduced all over again\u2014this sort of progressive disclosure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI told them there\u2019s a risk in doing that: \u201cYou may lose your marriage. It may be so horrific\u2014what\u2019s been going on\u2014that she just can\u2019t remain any longer.\u201d I said: \u201cBut I do know that\u2014if you come forward and peel back all those onions \/ the layers of the onion\u2014this is the only way that you have a pathway moving forward, where she knows: \u201cI\u2019m not going to hear anymore at a later date.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As a side note to that, that\u2019s one of the reasons why\u2014when we talk to couples, who are considering marriage \/ engaged couples\u2014they say: \u201cWell, do I have to tell about everything in my past?\u201d I don\u2019t know if you have to tell every detail of everything in your past; but you certainly don\u2019t want to get into marriage and have something come up that your spouse looks at and goes: \u201cWhy didn\u2019t I know about that? Why didn\u2019t you tell me? How did you keep that from me?\u201d When those seeds of mistrust are sown in a relationship, those are stubborn seeds\u2014the roots go down deep and that kind does not come out easily.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>No; I think one of the things you can look for\u2014and this is in terms of pastoring those who are trying to love their prodigals\u2014is simply this: \u201cDo you think you are the one discovering all the information\u2014all the lies \/ the deceptions? And as you do, the offender \/ the prodigal has a convenient story to sort of match the evidence that you\u2019ve discovered. Is that the dynamic?\u201d or \u201cIs the prodigal actually coming forward with information on their own \/ self-disclosure confessions?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause if they are <em>not<\/em>, undoubtedly, almost al\u2014I don\u2019t want to say every time\u2014but almost always, there\u2019s more to know. That\u2019s always a good indicator of a repentant heart: \u201cAm I seeking to bring my sin to light, to confess it, and then to trust the Lord to handle the results of what will happen?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Paul, you mentioned, earlier, that there is a time to let go. Maybe it\u2019s after the onion has been peeled\u2014not by the perpetrator \/ not by the prodigal\u2014but it\u2019s by the spouse\u2014and you\u2019re feeling like you\u2019re the one uncovering the deceit. Repentance is not clear: \u201cHow do you know when you\u2019re supposed to let go?\u201d and \u201cWhat does letting go look like?\u201d\u2014because it\u2019s not necessarily divorce.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Right; right.Part of it is something Dave mentioned earlier: \u201cDo you feel like you are having perpetual conversation that continually brings you back to the same point?\u201d There\u2019s simply no move forward \/ there\u2019s no change\u2014you\u2019re sort of talking things to death. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Your words have no impact. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Past behavior, oftentimes, is an accurate predictor of future behavior. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIs there a sense in which you feel like your words no longer have <em>influence<\/em> with that person?\u201d\u2014the other person has sort of <em>stopped<\/em> listening to you. I think that\u2014in order to think about: \u201cWhat it means to begin to let go\u201d: \u201cHow do I arrange my life \/ arrange the life of the prodigal?\u201d in a way that is commiserate with what they are entrusting to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf my child is lying, repeatedly, to me, then it\u2019s obvious that paying for their Wi-Fi, their cable television, and their cell phone is probably not going to deliver us to the place that we want to be. We have to begin to think about: \u201cWhat does it look like to rearrange our relationship in a way where the child has to <em>bear<\/em> the consequences for that distrust?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And let me just add something that I think can be really important; because, sometimes, when we come upon these situations, it\u2019s really easy to kind of bifurcate the world into sin and righteousness and: \u201cThey\u2019re just moving towards sin; and therefore, we have to relate to them in that way.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think getting some kind of physiological evaluation done\u2014encouraging them to see a doctor and to find out whether there are any physiological components that are at work that could be causing or, at least, exacerbating the behavior that you\u2019re encountering\u2014could be a really important piece in diagnosing exactly what\u2019s happening\u00a0 and knowing whether we need to be letting them go, or we need to be trying a round of medication, or we need to be getting our pastors involved in a more deliberate way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I just wanted folks to hear\u2014in letting them go\u2014especially parents, you may need to let your child suffer the consequences, which is what you were talking about a little bit earlier\u2014let them hit the wall and deal with the consequences. That means stopping paying for the Wi-Fi \/ the insurance\u2014all of that may put them on their own two feet and out of a car; but it may end up, ultimately, causing them to realize: \u201cI don\u2019t want to live this way for the rest of my life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; so let me\u2014in the middle of this, just, again\u2014throw out the kind of scenario that will happen: \u201cA child has left home; become wayward; cut off things with mom and dad. Mom and dad are praying for that child\u2014they have prayed; they\u2019ve reached out; they\u2019ve pursued; they\u2019ve been rebuffed\u2014now, it\u2019s just prayer. They get a call one night; and the child says: \u2018I\u2019m in trouble, and I need help.\u2019 And maybe it\u2019s: \u2018Can I come home?\u2019 Or\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It may be: \u201cI\u2019m in jail.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: \u201c\u2019<\/strong>I\u2019m in jail. Would you come and bail me out?\u2019 This is the third time in four years that they\u2019ve gotten a call like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThe wife says to the husband: \u2018We have to help; we\u2019ve got to open the home; we\u2019ve got to go bail them out.\u2019 The husband says, \u2018I think we leave them in jail.\u2019 How do you make that decision in that moment?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, I know there\u2019s a context and there\u2019s no one-size-fits-all here. I\u2019m not looking for: \u201cWhat\u2019s the right answer?\u201d \/ I\u2019m looking for: \u201cHow do you gain wisdom on what\u2019s the right answer in your moment?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Prayer is never obligatory when it comes to these kinds of these things. So, we are praying\u2014I don\u2019t want to just jump over that. Not making that decision <em>alone<\/em> can be really helpful\u2014so soliciting counsel from trusted people, if they are available in that emergency situation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut again, part of letting them go is to, ultimately, allow them to experience the very thing you are encountering. To respond in a fearful, reactive way is to miss the point\u2014I mean, you\u2019ve really come to this time. It may be that there is some help \/ some way to express love to them in that situation that alleviates some of the problem but, then, allows them to bear the consequence for it. It may be that\u2014with where they are\u2014it\u2019s better to just say: \u201cYou\u2019ve made certain choices. We\u2019ve made our appeals. We love you; we\u2019re praying for you. Call us as soon as you get through this,\u201d or it may be to rush down and to begin to interact and ease their pain in some way, <em>emotionally<\/em>, without necessarily resolving things, financially. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>There was a family in our church, who had an adult son who was wayward. He found himself homeless. The parents were aware of this and had stayed in touch with him. One night, he either called or showed up on the doorstep and said, \u201cI need a place to stay.\u201d One of the things that they did was\u2014they said: \u201cYou can stay here tonight; but in the morning, we\u2019re going to talk about what it means for you to learn to care for and provide for yourself.\u201d In other words, even as he was coming in\u2014even as they were helping him \/ doing him good\u2014at the same time, they were communicating: \u201cThis is grace. We are not starting this pattern back over again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWe\u2019re going to have a substantive conversation about this.\u201d He knew that, even as he was being allowed back in the home, it was temporary and that there was a larger conversation going to happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I don\u2019t want to sound judgmental here; but I think the Christian community, sometimes, can almost falsify love in rescuing people, who continually find themselves in desperate financial condition. They ask for the Christian community to bail them out, repeatedly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>Yes; I think one of the things, Dennis, that you are alluding to there\u2014this is important, I think, for pastors \/ counselors\u2014others who are working with those who are dealing with prodigals\u2014is to prepare them for the fact that their actions \/ oftentimes, rugged love will seem unloving\u2014will be judged, by other people, as being unloving; because there\u2019s a misunderstanding about what they are attempting to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They may not know the whole context of what\u2019s taking place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. Again, this is why this stuff works in the local church, where there\u2019s unity in the leadership \/ where there\u2019s a biblical framework for things like church discipline, resolving conflict according to Mathew 18. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a great example of this in 1 Corinthians 5, where Paul explicitly tells the church in Corinth to let this man go \/ to set him outside the fellowship; because he is having this illicit relationship with his father\u2019s wife. But the goal is <em>always<\/em> redemptive\u2014the goal is that he will return. The goal is not to <em>hurt<\/em>, the goal is to love; and by loving them, to see them reconcile and brought back to God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Here\u2019s where I\u2019d recommend that listeners get a copy of your book; because what you outline in here is really how you can spot a prodigal, who is faking phony repentance. You talk about, in here, the person who is a prodigal\u2014does not want to assume responsibility. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe cries out as though \u201cI\u2019m the victim.\u201d If the Christian community can become, I think, conversant and understanding what you guys are talking about in your book, <em>Letting Go<\/em>, they can begin to, I think, do a better job of church discipline, and of really offering restoration and healing to people, who need the kind of love with boundaries that they need to, ultimately, come clean.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think just the idea of rugged love is something that all of us need to be reminded of. There are times when love needs teeth, and that\u2019s not second nature for us. Most of us are swayed by sentiment, and we get soft in the moment, and we want to do the thing that may be the easier thing to do\u2014maybe the seemingly loving thing to do \/ the thing that will get the approval of our friends. What we need to do is have some love with teeth in it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The love with teeth, I think, is based really upon a heart of courage that says: \u201cYou know what? I want to seek the best of the one loved.\u201d It may not be the easy thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want one of you\u2014you guys are both pastors. We\u2019ve been talking, this week, about prodigals. You can look at each other and decide who prays for our listening audience. But we\u2019ve got some listeners, who are facing some very difficult circumstances with a spouse \/ with a child. Maybe the child\u2019s an in-house prodigal\u2014talked to a friend, who\u2019s experiencing that right now. Maybe the child\u2019s an adult child and has just repeated this situation over and over and over again. Would you pray that God would give them courage to know how to provide rugged love \/ rugged grace in the midst a rugged life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; while you figure out which one in going to pray, let me let our listeners know about how to get a copy of the book, <em>Letting Go<\/em>: <em>Rugged Love for Wayward Souls<\/em>. You can order it from us on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order as well\u20141-800-FL-TODAY. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s also a 15-day Bible study that\u2019s been put together that includes video resources and a discussion guide so that parents or an individual\u2014a husband or a wife\u2014can simply go through this material on their own to help steer your thinking if you\u2019re in the midst of a situation with a wayward individual in your family. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about the 15-day Bible study and about the book, <em>Letting Go: Rugged Love for Wayward Souls<\/em>. Again the website: FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order the book from us by phone at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, L\u201d as in life, and then the word, TODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think <em>Letting Go<\/em>, Bob, ought to be on everybody\u2019s bookshelf\u2014not necessarily for the prodigal in <em>your<\/em> life\u2014but maybe a friend \/ maybe a friend.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTwo pastors have been doing arm wrestling, here, in the studio to see who gets to pray for the listening audience. Who won the arm wrestling?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would love to get us started and Paul can finish us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLord, we are fallen, wayward people; and we love to do things our own way. We feel these wayward impulses, and we realize that You have broken in\u2014in a way that\u2019s amazing, in a way that\u2019s powerful and transformational. You have saved us and shown us a love and a mercy that we do not deserve. Yet, You have also placed us in a fallen world, where all around us are people that we love and people that love others, where they are making decisions, even though they profess Your name, to run toward the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe pray, first, that You would bring them comfort, Lord\u2014that the words that we\u2019ve spoken might be an encouragement to them; might inspire their hope and their faith; Lord, might turn them toward You; might send them to their local church and to their pastors. But Lord, we also pray that you would break loose in the lives of people that are locked up in fear and in shame and that You would grant them the courage, and the faith, and the trust, and the confidence to be able to exercise a love that is rugged\u2014a love that sees beyond the present to the future; a love that sees beyond the present to repentance and is willing to walk the hard road, because they believe that, ultimately, You will be glorified.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul: <\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLord, Your Word tells us that, if any lacks wisdom, to boldly approach You to ask\u2014that You are anxious to give us Your truth \/ to give us Your wisdom from Your Word. Lord, that\u2019s what I pray, right now, for everyone who is listening\u2014Father, that You give them a heart of faith \/ a heart of wisdom\u2014that they would be able to seek You \/ that You would draw close to them as they draw close to You. Lord, that You would bring the necessary resources, and people, and counsel into their lives to be able to move them forward on a path that honors You \/ on a path that is most loving for their prodigal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThank You for this time. We <em>commit<\/em> our prodigals to You, Lord. May all the prodigals, one day, run home. In Your name we pray. Amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. 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