{"id":304714,"date":"2017-10-06T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-10-06T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/a-dangerous-calling\/"},"modified":"2017-10-06T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-10-06T15:00:00","slug":"a-dangerous-calling","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-dangerous-calling\/","title":{"rendered":"A Dangerous Calling"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Paul David Tripp talks about the pitfalls unique to pastors and those in vocational ministry.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-10-06.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:39","filesize":"28.06M","filesize_raw":"29427701","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2867,2853,2860],"tags":[6333,6336,6335,6334,4126,5460],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[3097],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304714","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-church-involvement","category-frazzled-family","category-hardship-and-suffering","tag-challenges-in-ministry","tag-church-leadership","tag-clergy","tag-ministers","tag-ministry","tag-pastors","cwp_profile-paul-david-tripp","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304714\/a-dangerous-calling","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304714\/a-dangerous-calling","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"rlbBv3SgHN\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-dangerous-calling\/\">A Dangerous Calling<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-dangerous-calling\/embed\/#?secret=rlbBv3SgHN\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;A Dangerous Calling&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"rlbBv3SgHN\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-10-06.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-10-06.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A pastor of a local church has to be more than a skillful Bible teacher. Paul David Tripp says he ultimately has to be a man of God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> That person going into the ministry needs to understand that their ministry is <em>never<\/em> just shaped by their knowledge and skill\u2014never! It\u2019s always also shaped by the true condition of their heart. That\u2019s why Paul says to Timothy, \u201cGuard your doctrine and your own life as well. If you do that, you\u2019ll save yourself and your hearers.\u201d I was never told that. I was a good student\u2014I did <em>very<\/em> well in seminary\u2014but I had a big theological brain and a diseased heart\u2014and I didn\u2019t know it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, October 6<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019re going to hear from Paul David Tripp today about why pastoring a church is a demanding and <em>dangerous<\/em> calling.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Friday edition. I don\u2019t know how many of our listeners know this; but we have, in past years, invited to our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways, pastors and their wives. We have scholarshiped them to come \/ we\u2019ve invited them to be our guests. But, really, it\u2019s been because of friends of the ministry, who have provided the scholarship funding, in order for the pastors to come. I think one of the reasons why we\u2019ve had donors do that is because they recognize that, in order for a pastor to effectively minister\u2014on an ongoing basis\u2014his marriage and his family needs to be strong and healthy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; we have had close to 100,000 pastors and their wives come to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> and our other events\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014at no cost\u2014so that they could experience a weekend \/ hopefully, an oasis of spiritual refreshment and encouragement. Truthfully, Bob, I\u2019m delighted\u2014I am absolutely delighted\u2014when pastors take us up on this. Of course, October is Pastor Appreciation Month. Maybe this would be a good challenge to you\u2014to think about your pastor and about giving both he and his spouse a gift to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got a former pastor with us\u2014you\u2019re not pastoring today\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014kind of \/ I still think you\u2019re a pastor. Paul Tripp joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Paul, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Hey, it\u2019s great to be with you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Paul was a pastor for more than 20 years\u2014lives in Philly with his wife Luella. They have four grown children, and he\u2019s written a book that I\u2019ve had more than a dozen people recommend to me\u2014it\u2019s called <em>Dangerous Calling<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a book written primarily to pastors\u2014but also to missionaries\u2014men and women, who are in ministry full-time. Why do you think the ministry can be so dangerous, Paul?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> I think there are several elements of this\u2014maybe one of those is the way we train people for ministry. We allow theological students to get comfortable with holding the Bible\u2014quite apart from their own hearts and lives\u2014so it becomes an academic pursuit rather than a personal spiritual pursuit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think churches tend to hire people, in ministry, based on theological agreement, biblical literacy, experience, and success in ministry\u2014not really knowing the person in ministry. I think we tend to put pastors\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I agree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> \u2014on an unrealistic pedestal that no human being should be on. All of that is a culture that is dangerous for a pastor to be in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was in the middle of destroying my life and ministry\u2014and I had <em>no idea<\/em> that that was going on. There was a <em>huge<\/em> separation between my public persona and my private life. My wife, Luella, would come to me\u2014she did it in godly ways. I would wrap my robes of righteousness around me\u2014I would tell her what a great husband she had. I told her that I thought her problem was just discontent, and I would pray for her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You actually say in your book: \u201cNinety-five percent of the women in my church would be pleased to be married to me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> I said that. She informed me she was in the 5 percent. [Laughter] God\u2014by His grace\u2014rescued me. I would like to think that my story is unique but\u2014as around the world I\u2019ve told that story\u2014I\u2019ve had <em>hundreds<\/em> and <em>hundreds<\/em>, literally, pastors come and begin to confess. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOut of my own experience and out of my concern for those pastors, I became concerned about the state of pastoral culture and the shroud of silence that covers pastoral culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s one of the ways I\u2019ve seen this captured. I am <em>so <\/em>weary of having pastors say this to me: \u201cEverybody else in the body of Christ can confess sin. If I confess sin, I\u2019m done.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> He\u2019s a sinner! If that can\u2019t be tolerated, this man won\u2019t be part of the essential sanctifying ministries of the body of Christ; because he thinks it\u2019s his job to live up above or outside of the body of Christ. That\u2019s dangerous for <em>anyone<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> \u2014let alone the person who is under the gun\u2014being the culture-setter for a particular body of believers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It is an <em>exhausting<\/em> calling. People often joke about the pastor who works the one day a week\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you know: \u201cWhat does he do the rest of the week?\u201d But the demands of ministry are both physically and emotionally exhausting; aren\u2019t they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Sure. Where that leads is\u2014and this, I think, needs to be taught more in seminaries. One of the things that has been heartening is\u2014more and more seminaries have begun to use <em>Dangerous Calling<\/em> as a text \/ preparation text for ministry\u2014because that person, going into the ministry, needs to understand that their ministry is <em>never<\/em> just shaped by their knowledge and skill\u2014never! It\u2019s always also shaped by the true condition of their heart. That\u2019s why Paul says to Timothy: \u201cGuard your doctrine and your own life as well. If you do that, you\u2019ll save yourself and your hearers.\u201d I was never told that. I was a good student\u2014I did <em>very<\/em> well in seminary\u2014but I had a big theological brain and a diseased heart, and I didn\u2019t know it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And, Paul\u2014sometimes, it seems to me, in the ministry, that the thing that reveals the diseased heart is the schedule\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014just the relentless demands that a pastor has\u2014week in and week out\u2014where it exposes that his heart isn\u2019t healthy, and he can\u2019t keep running. He, literally, runs out of juice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Yes; and in that way, burn-out isn\u2019t the problem\u2014it\u2019s a <em>symptom<\/em> of deeper problems. In the book, I point to what, I think, are the fundamental dangers. One is the danger of familiarity. We would argue that to be familiar with the gospel is a huge grace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> To stand up close to the gospel of Jesus Christ every day of your life is a wonderful thing. To be chosen by God to be a communicator of the gospel\u2014who wouldn\u2019t say, \u201cThis is the honor of my life!\u201d? But familiarity is also a dangerous thing, because familiarity can wear me down\u2014it can close my eyes \/ it can weaken my attention. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tArtists talk of this dynamic of visual lethargy. What that means is\u2014the more you see an object, the less you actually see it; because you think you\u2019ve seen it, you quit looking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, you\u2019re driving to your office, as a pastor, the first\u2014your first week at this church. To get from your home to your office at church, you have to drive this wooded road. That first day, you just look at those beautiful trees\u2014you think, \u201cWhat a <em>beautiful<\/em> drive this is!\u201d Six weeks later, you\u2019re pounding on your dash, \u201cThis traffic drives me crazy!\u201d\u2014and you haven\u2019t seen a tree in three weeks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe danger of familiarity is that I would lose my awe of God and my awe of His grace. I think there is a tremendous amount of pastors who are just cranking it out. They\u2019ve long since lost their awe. The problem with that is\u2014awe of God is meant to be the principle motivator of every human being\u2019s life. What the worship service is meant to do is <em>rescue<\/em> people\u2014give them back their awe of God again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> I\u2019m in the service\u2014in the sermon, I want to rise out of my chair and say: \u201cYes! I want to serve <em>that<\/em> God! I want to serve Him!\u201d Well, it\u2019s very hard to give that away if you don\u2019t have it yourself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> I am tired of hearing boring, theological, exegetical lectures by preachers who\u2019ve long since lost their awe. They don\u2019t say: \u201cOh, how gorgeous is His love! How wonderful His grace!\u201d I need awe inspired in me every day, and that\u2019s the <em>job<\/em> of the church of Jesus Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to use an illustration of a man, who was not perfect\u2014but what every one of his sermons had\u2014I don\u2019t remember him ever preaching a sermon that didn\u2019t have a <em>phenomenal<\/em> awe of God and also a heart for God\u2014a love for God \/ a worship of God\u2014that was not just embedded \/ it <em>leaked <\/em>out of the message. In fact, he would give some of the sermons 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 50 times; because I heard him preach over a 30-year period. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was Bill Bright.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We sometimes wondered, \u201cDon\u2019t you have another sermon?!\u201d [Laughter] Why did we keep listening to him?\u2014it\u2019s the antithesis of what you just described\u2014because he was in <em>love<\/em> with Jesus Christ. Now, he didn\u2019t follow Him perfectly\u2014but I tell you what\u2014he did a pretty good job of attempting to be a disciple of Jesus Christ and pass the real disease on to others of us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s Psalm 145: \u201cOne generation shall speak of your works to another.\u201d I think you could argue that one of the things that makes a powerful sermon powerful is you\u2019re watching the preacher worship his way through his own sermon\u2014he gets caught up in the glory of God \/ in the beauty of God\u2019s grace again. It\u2019s very hard, in ministry, to give away that which you do not have yourself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the symptoms of a lack of awe in a pastor is mediocrity\u2014when you allow yourself to not be properly prepared\u2014when you\u2019re starting your sermon on a Saturday afternoon. You know, you don\u2019t have enough time for your heart to be gripped\u2014to be able to be ready to speak that in a way that will inspire awe of others. When you\u2019re counseling out of your hip pocket, without ever thinking and praying about it \/ when you\u2019ll wing it in an important leadership meeting\u2014you don\u2019t have a schedule problem; you don\u2019t have an \u201cI don\u2019t know how to run a meeting,\u201d problem; you don\u2019t have an \u201cI don\u2019t know how to construct a sermon,\u201d problem\u2014you\u2019ve got an awe problem. There\u2019s a direct relationship between awe and excellence in ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThink of the calling of Isaiah\u2014Isaiah 6. He\u2019s revealed the glory of God. What does he say? \u201cWow, this is cool!\u201d No; he doesn\u2019t\u2014he says: \u201cWoe is me, for I am undone. I am a man of unclean lips. I dwell among a people of unclean lips. My eyes have seen Jehovah, the Lord of hosts.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt undoes him. That\u2019s the kind of pastor I want\u2014who\u2019s not undone by guilt\u2014he\u2019s undone by the glory of God, and he wants to <em>give<\/em> that to the people that he ministers to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Paul, I was on a flight with a friend of mine, who is a small-town pastor\u2014faithful guy. I was flying through Chicago to somewhere else, and he was stopping in Chicago. I said, \u201cWhat are you going to Chicago for?\u201d He said: \u201cI do this once a year.\u201d He said: \u201cThere are about ten of us. We\u2019re all pastors. We get together, once a year, at a location and spend time\u2014several days\u2014with one another, talking about the issues that are going on in our church \/ in our lives. We just\u2014it\u2019s kind of an accountability group for us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said: \u201cThere\u2019s not really anybody in the town where I live where I can have that kind of transparent relationship. It\u2019s a small enough town that\u201d\u2014like you said\u2014\u201cwhat can the pastor\u2026\u201d\u2014if the pastor shares his real-life issues, he may get run out of town for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought it was wise of my friend to cordon off this time\u2014spend the money on the plane ticket and the hotel\u2014and go do this with other guys. Too many pastors are living in isolation; aren\u2019t they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Yes. That\u2019s why it\u2019s not enough to say that the pastor needs to examine his own heart and say, \u201cHas familiarity changed me?\u201d There needs to be a culture change to take place in the local church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me just speak to that for the second temptation \/ danger\u2014it\u2019s the danger of arrival. It\u2019s very easy\u2014with a high level of theological understanding and biblical literacy of the average pastor, with the <em>huge<\/em> amount of resources that are available to me\u2014to think of myself as spiritually mature. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> You can be theologically knowledgeable \/ biblically literate and have marked areas of immaturity in your life. It\u2019s easy to begin to think of myself as a grace graduate: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cI\u2019ve arrived\u2014I know it all.\u201d That\u2019s an <em>invalid<\/em> place to look for your definition of maturity. What that does is\u2014you have the combination of my own assessments of arrival and the body of Christ putting me on a pedestal. No wonder, then, I\u2019m comfortable living in isolation from the essential sanctifying ministry of the body of Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> If Christ is the head of His body\u2014and He is\u2014here\u2019s what this means\u2014it is real practical: \u201cEverything else is just body.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Including the pastor. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Right! <em>The most<\/em> influential name that we could generate, right now in the evangelical church, is but a God-gifted\u2014we would want to mention that\u2014a God-appointed <em>member<\/em> of the body of Christ. Part of the reason for remembering that is the deceitfulness of sin\u2014sin blinds. Guess who it blinds first? I\u2019ve never had any trouble seeing the sin in my wife and children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs long as there\u2019s sin in me, there will be pockets of spiritual blindness. I would like to think that no one has a more accurate view of me than I do, but it\u2019s just not true! So, I need the intervention of the body of Christ, as a pastor. I need help seeing myself with accuracy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And you\u2019re never going to get that perspective of yourself in isolation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Nope.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got to have people, who are holding up the mirror of the Scriptures to you and saying, \u201cIt\u2019s time to have a throne check here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> That\u2019s Hebrews 3:12 and 13: \u201cExhort one another daily lest you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.\u201d My way of capturing that is: \u201cPersonal spiritual insight is the result of community. It\u2019s very hard to get it by yourself.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve heard somebody say your walk with God is a community project; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Yes; I\u2019m familiar with that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; you are! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> But so much of my <em>move <\/em>into ministry\u2014so much of the way that I\u2019m <em>hired <\/em>in ministry\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014so much of the expectations of me in ministry don\u2019t preach that truth to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> They preach the opposite.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We started off talking about the pastor and his marriage. I just think it would be good, before we\u2019re done, for you to coach a young pastor on marriage maintenance and coach him on what he does if the church doesn\u2019t share the priority that he thinks there ought to be for marriage maintenance. They\u2019re saying: \u201cWhy are you taking time off to go be with your wife? We don\u2019t get to do that!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> If you examine the Pastoral Epistles\u2014there is no obvious or lengthy discussion between the undoable tensions between family and ministry\u2014none. Now, that tension is <em>assumed<\/em> by us. Now, here\u2019s what I need to say about this: \u201cGod will <em>never<\/em> call you to do one command that will necessitate you breaking another.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Perhaps<\/em> that tension between family and ministry is set up because I want things out of ministry that I\u2019m not supposed to get\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014my identity and success, size of the church, power and prominence. What that will create is driven-ness: \u201cI\u2019ve got to get more,\u201d \u201cI\u2019ve got to get more,\u201d \u201cI\u2019ve got to do more,\u201d\u2014never enough accomplishment\u2014because those are fleeting identities. It\u2019s not that God has called me to two things that I can\u2019t do at the same time. It\u2019s that I\u2019m wanting something out of one\u2014that makes me neglectful of the other.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> It makes me make bad choices. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn one of my final classes in my doctoral program, I was sitting next to a South African brother\u2014he said, \u201cWhat are you doing this weekend?\u201d I said: \u201cI\u2019m going home. I\u2019m locking myself in a room. I\u2019m going to do <em>nothing<\/em> but study so I can master this exam.\u201d He said, \u201cHow many kids do you have?\u201d I said, \u201cI have four.\u201d He said, \u201cI assume you have a wife too.\u201d I said, \u201cYes.\u201d He said, \u201cYou know, ten years from now, no one will know whether you got an \u2018A,\u2019 \u2018B,\u2019 or \u2018C\u2019 in that class. But your willingness to make this bad choice could set you on a trajectory that could destroy precious things in your life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean\u2014he had me. I needed to hear those words, because I was obsessed. It had <em>nothing<\/em> to do with the honor of God\u2014it was my pride!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So what did you do that weekend?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> I went home. I studied for a couple of hours for the test; I put the stuff away; and I enjoyed my family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Do you remember what you made on the test?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> No. [Laughter] Maybe that\u2019s the point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> I don\u2019t remember, because I was so <em>relieved<\/em> of the burden. I knew I wasn\u2019t going to fail this program\u2014it didn\u2019t have anything to do with that. It was <em>pride<\/em> in ministry\u2014it was <em>identity <\/em>in ministry that was going to set up that tension\u2014make my wife and children feel like they were the sacrifices of ministry\u2014they were the abandoned ones.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Paul, I have to add my own personal illustration to your point. I had a mentor, early on in my life, who made the statement to me\u2014he said, \u201cBarbara is <em>not<\/em> a limitation to God accomplishing what He wants to do through you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEarly in the formation of FamilyLife, we were doing these <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways; and I was wanting Barbara to go with me and do more.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> By that point\u2014I don\u2019t remember if we had all six of our kids\u2014but she basically threw an anchor out that hit me on the head, multiple times, before God got my attention\u2014and said: \u201cI can\u2019t be out there, speaking with <em>you<\/em> on the road, and be here, at home\u2014your wife and the mother of our children. I can\u2019t do it all!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt that moment, I was faced with whether I would embrace the advice of my mentor or ignore the voice of my wife and just keep going and outrun the troops. I\u2019m convinced this was a key turning point\u2014probably, in our marriage and our ministry\u2014because we decided, at that point, I wouldn\u2019t try to drag her all over. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe would put a limit on the number of times we spoke, and we would build a speaker team.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It came out of realizing that my wife is a gift from God and designed for me to accomplish <em>everything<\/em> that God desires for me to do in life and in the ministry He\u2019s given us\u2014and not railing against that and not pushing back against that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> And I would just ask pastors to ask this simple question: \u201cMy ministry is functionally building monuments to whom?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cIs it for the glory of God or is it for the applause of men?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Because God is not glorified if my children are questioning the faith because the faith is taking their daddy from them. Who would ever argue that glorifies God?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No doubt about it. I\u2019m grateful for you writing this book, <em>Dangerous Calling. <\/em>It really is a dangerous calling, whether you\u2019re a pastor or in ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just appreciate your advice and your exhortations to all of us here. No one has done it perfectly, and we sure don\u2019t want to do life isolated. It is very dangerous. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> I write and speak out of my own need. I feel rescued by the message that I am writing. Praise God for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019ll tell you what\u2014I think your transparency is going to help a lot of people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think this book is a gift for every pastor. Some of our listeners may want to get a copy of the book and pass it on to their pastor\u2014especially, here, during Pastor Appreciation Month. Dennis, I think some of our listeners may want to scholarship their pastor to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can find out more about Paul David Tripp\u2019s book, <em>Dangerous Calling, <\/em>or about how you can scholarship a pastor to an upcoming getaway. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information; or call us\u20141-800-FL-TODAY is our number. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, we\u2019re convinced that the work of a local church pastor\u2014and the work of the local church\u2014this is the frontline in what God is doing in our country today. It\u2019s the church that the gates of hell will not prevail against. As a ministry, we want to do all we can to help support the work of the local church. In fact, as we talk with you about our financial needs, here, at <em>FamilyLife<\/em>, we want to make sure that you are never diverting funds from your local church to our ministry. We believe that your local church should be your first and primary place where you are supporting the work of the Kingdom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBeyond that\u2014as you\u2019re able to help ministries, like <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, you enable us to reach more people more regularly with the kind of practical biblical help and hope that you hear on this radio program. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re grateful for those of you who do help fund this ministry. If you\u2019re able to make a donation today, we\u2019d love to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you Dennis Rainey\u2019s new book, which is called <em>Choosing a Life That Matters<\/em>. You can request the book when you donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY. You can also mail your donation to us at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBefore we\u2019re done today, please remember to pray for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway that is taking place this weekend in Augusta, Georgia. Next weekend, we\u2019ve got getaways happening in Sacramento, California, and Fort Myers, Florida. Pray for the couples who will be attending these getaways. If it\u2019s been a while since you\u2019ve been to a getaway, be sure to check it out at FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014we\u2019d love to have you join us, this fall, at one of our upcoming getaways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend this weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church. And I hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk about letting go. I\u2019m not talking about a song from <em>Frozen<\/em>; I\u2019m talking about letting go of bitterness, or resentment, or unforgiveness. Dave Harvey and Paul Gilbert are going to be with us\u2014hope you can be with us as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll see you back Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:30:39"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["28.06M"],"filesize_raw":["29427701"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304714.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304714.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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David Tripp talks about the pitfalls unique to pastors and those in vocational ministry.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-10-06.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A pastor of a local church has to be more than a skillful Bible teacher. Paul David Tripp says he ultimately has to be a man of God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> That person going into the ministry needs to understand that their ministry is <em>never<\/em> just shaped by their knowledge and skill\u2014never! It\u2019s always also shaped by the true condition of their heart. That\u2019s why Paul says to Timothy, \u201cGuard your doctrine and your own life as well. If you do that, you\u2019ll save yourself and your hearers.\u201d I was never told that. I was a good student\u2014I did <em>very<\/em> well in seminary\u2014but I had a big theological brain and a diseased heart\u2014and I didn\u2019t know it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, October 6<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019re going to hear from Paul David Tripp today about why pastoring a church is a demanding and <em>dangerous<\/em> calling.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Friday edition. I don\u2019t know how many of our listeners know this; but we have, in past years, invited to our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways, pastors and their wives. We have scholarshiped them to come \/ we\u2019ve invited them to be our guests. But, really, it\u2019s been because of friends of the ministry, who have provided the scholarship funding, in order for the pastors to come. I think one of the reasons why we\u2019ve had donors do that is because they recognize that, in order for a pastor to effectively minister\u2014on an ongoing basis\u2014his marriage and his family needs to be strong and healthy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; we have had close to 100,000 pastors and their wives come to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> and our other events\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014at no cost\u2014so that they could experience a weekend \/ hopefully, an oasis of spiritual refreshment and encouragement. Truthfully, Bob, I\u2019m delighted\u2014I am absolutely delighted\u2014when pastors take us up on this. Of course, October is Pastor Appreciation Month. Maybe this would be a good challenge to you\u2014to think about your pastor and about giving both he and his spouse a gift to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got a former pastor with us\u2014you\u2019re not pastoring today\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014kind of \/ I still think you\u2019re a pastor. Paul Tripp joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Paul, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Hey, it\u2019s great to be with you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Paul was a pastor for more than 20 years\u2014lives in Philly with his wife Luella. They have four grown children, and he\u2019s written a book that I\u2019ve had more than a dozen people recommend to me\u2014it\u2019s called <em>Dangerous Calling<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a book written primarily to pastors\u2014but also to missionaries\u2014men and women, who are in ministry full-time. Why do you think the ministry can be so dangerous, Paul?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> I think there are several elements of this\u2014maybe one of those is the way we train people for ministry. We allow theological students to get comfortable with holding the Bible\u2014quite apart from their own hearts and lives\u2014so it becomes an academic pursuit rather than a personal spiritual pursuit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think churches tend to hire people, in ministry, based on theological agreement, biblical literacy, experience, and success in ministry\u2014not really knowing the person in ministry. I think we tend to put pastors\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I agree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> \u2014on an unrealistic pedestal that no human being should be on. All of that is a culture that is dangerous for a pastor to be in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was in the middle of destroying my life and ministry\u2014and I had <em>no idea<\/em> that that was going on. There was a <em>huge<\/em> separation between my public persona and my private life. My wife, Luella, would come to me\u2014she did it in godly ways. I would wrap my robes of righteousness around me\u2014I would tell her what a great husband she had. I told her that I thought her problem was just discontent, and I would pray for her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You actually say in your book: \u201cNinety-five percent of the women in my church would be pleased to be married to me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> I said that. She informed me she was in the 5 percent. [Laughter] God\u2014by His grace\u2014rescued me. I would like to think that my story is unique but\u2014as around the world I\u2019ve told that story\u2014I\u2019ve had <em>hundreds<\/em> and <em>hundreds<\/em>, literally, pastors come and begin to confess. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOut of my own experience and out of my concern for those pastors, I became concerned about the state of pastoral culture and the shroud of silence that covers pastoral culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s one of the ways I\u2019ve seen this captured. I am <em>so <\/em>weary of having pastors say this to me: \u201cEverybody else in the body of Christ can confess sin. If I confess sin, I\u2019m done.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> He\u2019s a sinner! If that can\u2019t be tolerated, this man won\u2019t be part of the essential sanctifying ministries of the body of Christ; because he thinks it\u2019s his job to live up above or outside of the body of Christ. That\u2019s dangerous for <em>anyone<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> \u2014let alone the person who is under the gun\u2014being the culture-setter for a particular body of believers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It is an <em>exhausting<\/em> calling. People often joke about the pastor who works the one day a week\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you know: \u201cWhat does he do the rest of the week?\u201d But the demands of ministry are both physically and emotionally exhausting; aren\u2019t they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Sure. Where that leads is\u2014and this, I think, needs to be taught more in seminaries. One of the things that has been heartening is\u2014more and more seminaries have begun to use <em>Dangerous Calling<\/em> as a text \/ preparation text for ministry\u2014because that person, going into the ministry, needs to understand that their ministry is <em>never<\/em> just shaped by their knowledge and skill\u2014never! It\u2019s always also shaped by the true condition of their heart. That\u2019s why Paul says to Timothy: \u201cGuard your doctrine and your own life as well. If you do that, you\u2019ll save yourself and your hearers.\u201d I was never told that. I was a good student\u2014I did <em>very<\/em> well in seminary\u2014but I had a big theological brain and a diseased heart, and I didn\u2019t know it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And, Paul\u2014sometimes, it seems to me, in the ministry, that the thing that reveals the diseased heart is the schedule\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014just the relentless demands that a pastor has\u2014week in and week out\u2014where it exposes that his heart isn\u2019t healthy, and he can\u2019t keep running. He, literally, runs out of juice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Yes; and in that way, burn-out isn\u2019t the problem\u2014it\u2019s a <em>symptom<\/em> of deeper problems. In the book, I point to what, I think, are the fundamental dangers. One is the danger of familiarity. We would argue that to be familiar with the gospel is a huge grace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> To stand up close to the gospel of Jesus Christ every day of your life is a wonderful thing. To be chosen by God to be a communicator of the gospel\u2014who wouldn\u2019t say, \u201cThis is the honor of my life!\u201d? But familiarity is also a dangerous thing, because familiarity can wear me down\u2014it can close my eyes \/ it can weaken my attention. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tArtists talk of this dynamic of visual lethargy. What that means is\u2014the more you see an object, the less you actually see it; because you think you\u2019ve seen it, you quit looking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, you\u2019re driving to your office, as a pastor, the first\u2014your first week at this church. To get from your home to your office at church, you have to drive this wooded road. That first day, you just look at those beautiful trees\u2014you think, \u201cWhat a <em>beautiful<\/em> drive this is!\u201d Six weeks later, you\u2019re pounding on your dash, \u201cThis traffic drives me crazy!\u201d\u2014and you haven\u2019t seen a tree in three weeks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe danger of familiarity is that I would lose my awe of God and my awe of His grace. I think there is a tremendous amount of pastors who are just cranking it out. They\u2019ve long since lost their awe. The problem with that is\u2014awe of God is meant to be the principle motivator of every human being\u2019s life. What the worship service is meant to do is <em>rescue<\/em> people\u2014give them back their awe of God again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> I\u2019m in the service\u2014in the sermon, I want to rise out of my chair and say: \u201cYes! I want to serve <em>that<\/em> God! I want to serve Him!\u201d Well, it\u2019s very hard to give that away if you don\u2019t have it yourself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> I am tired of hearing boring, theological, exegetical lectures by preachers who\u2019ve long since lost their awe. They don\u2019t say: \u201cOh, how gorgeous is His love! How wonderful His grace!\u201d I need awe inspired in me every day, and that\u2019s the <em>job<\/em> of the church of Jesus Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to use an illustration of a man, who was not perfect\u2014but what every one of his sermons had\u2014I don\u2019t remember him ever preaching a sermon that didn\u2019t have a <em>phenomenal<\/em> awe of God and also a heart for God\u2014a love for God \/ a worship of God\u2014that was not just embedded \/ it <em>leaked <\/em>out of the message. In fact, he would give some of the sermons 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 50 times; because I heard him preach over a 30-year period. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was Bill Bright.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We sometimes wondered, \u201cDon\u2019t you have another sermon?!\u201d [Laughter] Why did we keep listening to him?\u2014it\u2019s the antithesis of what you just described\u2014because he was in <em>love<\/em> with Jesus Christ. Now, he didn\u2019t follow Him perfectly\u2014but I tell you what\u2014he did a pretty good job of attempting to be a disciple of Jesus Christ and pass the real disease on to others of us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s Psalm 145: \u201cOne generation shall speak of your works to another.\u201d I think you could argue that one of the things that makes a powerful sermon powerful is you\u2019re watching the preacher worship his way through his own sermon\u2014he gets caught up in the glory of God \/ in the beauty of God\u2019s grace again. It\u2019s very hard, in ministry, to give away that which you do not have yourself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the symptoms of a lack of awe in a pastor is mediocrity\u2014when you allow yourself to not be properly prepared\u2014when you\u2019re starting your sermon on a Saturday afternoon. You know, you don\u2019t have enough time for your heart to be gripped\u2014to be able to be ready to speak that in a way that will inspire awe of others. When you\u2019re counseling out of your hip pocket, without ever thinking and praying about it \/ when you\u2019ll wing it in an important leadership meeting\u2014you don\u2019t have a schedule problem; you don\u2019t have an \u201cI don\u2019t know how to run a meeting,\u201d problem; you don\u2019t have an \u201cI don\u2019t know how to construct a sermon,\u201d problem\u2014you\u2019ve got an awe problem. There\u2019s a direct relationship between awe and excellence in ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThink of the calling of Isaiah\u2014Isaiah 6. He\u2019s revealed the glory of God. What does he say? \u201cWow, this is cool!\u201d No; he doesn\u2019t\u2014he says: \u201cWoe is me, for I am undone. I am a man of unclean lips. I dwell among a people of unclean lips. My eyes have seen Jehovah, the Lord of hosts.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt undoes him. That\u2019s the kind of pastor I want\u2014who\u2019s not undone by guilt\u2014he\u2019s undone by the glory of God, and he wants to <em>give<\/em> that to the people that he ministers to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Paul, I was on a flight with a friend of mine, who is a small-town pastor\u2014faithful guy. I was flying through Chicago to somewhere else, and he was stopping in Chicago. I said, \u201cWhat are you going to Chicago for?\u201d He said: \u201cI do this once a year.\u201d He said: \u201cThere are about ten of us. We\u2019re all pastors. We get together, once a year, at a location and spend time\u2014several days\u2014with one another, talking about the issues that are going on in our church \/ in our lives. We just\u2014it\u2019s kind of an accountability group for us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said: \u201cThere\u2019s not really anybody in the town where I live where I can have that kind of transparent relationship. It\u2019s a small enough town that\u201d\u2014like you said\u2014\u201cwhat can the pastor\u2026\u201d\u2014if the pastor shares his real-life issues, he may get run out of town for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought it was wise of my friend to cordon off this time\u2014spend the money on the plane ticket and the hotel\u2014and go do this with other guys. Too many pastors are living in isolation; aren\u2019t they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Yes. That\u2019s why it\u2019s not enough to say that the pastor needs to examine his own heart and say, \u201cHas familiarity changed me?\u201d There needs to be a culture change to take place in the local church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me just speak to that for the second temptation \/ danger\u2014it\u2019s the danger of arrival. It\u2019s very easy\u2014with a high level of theological understanding and biblical literacy of the average pastor, with the <em>huge<\/em> amount of resources that are available to me\u2014to think of myself as spiritually mature. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> You can be theologically knowledgeable \/ biblically literate and have marked areas of immaturity in your life. It\u2019s easy to begin to think of myself as a grace graduate: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cI\u2019ve arrived\u2014I know it all.\u201d That\u2019s an <em>invalid<\/em> place to look for your definition of maturity. What that does is\u2014you have the combination of my own assessments of arrival and the body of Christ putting me on a pedestal. No wonder, then, I\u2019m comfortable living in isolation from the essential sanctifying ministry of the body of Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> If Christ is the head of His body\u2014and He is\u2014here\u2019s what this means\u2014it is real practical: \u201cEverything else is just body.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Including the pastor. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Right! <em>The most<\/em> influential name that we could generate, right now in the evangelical church, is but a God-gifted\u2014we would want to mention that\u2014a God-appointed <em>member<\/em> of the body of Christ. Part of the reason for remembering that is the deceitfulness of sin\u2014sin blinds. Guess who it blinds first? I\u2019ve never had any trouble seeing the sin in my wife and children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs long as there\u2019s sin in me, there will be pockets of spiritual blindness. I would like to think that no one has a more accurate view of me than I do, but it\u2019s just not true! So, I need the intervention of the body of Christ, as a pastor. I need help seeing myself with accuracy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And you\u2019re never going to get that perspective of yourself in isolation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Nope.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got to have people, who are holding up the mirror of the Scriptures to you and saying, \u201cIt\u2019s time to have a throne check here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> That\u2019s Hebrews 3:12 and 13: \u201cExhort one another daily lest you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.\u201d My way of capturing that is: \u201cPersonal spiritual insight is the result of community. It\u2019s very hard to get it by yourself.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve heard somebody say your walk with God is a community project; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Yes; I\u2019m familiar with that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; you are! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> But so much of my <em>move <\/em>into ministry\u2014so much of the way that I\u2019m <em>hired <\/em>in ministry\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014so much of the expectations of me in ministry don\u2019t preach that truth to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> They preach the opposite.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We started off talking about the pastor and his marriage. I just think it would be good, before we\u2019re done, for you to coach a young pastor on marriage maintenance and coach him on what he does if the church doesn\u2019t share the priority that he thinks there ought to be for marriage maintenance. They\u2019re saying: \u201cWhy are you taking time off to go be with your wife? We don\u2019t get to do that!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> If you examine the Pastoral Epistles\u2014there is no obvious or lengthy discussion between the undoable tensions between family and ministry\u2014none. Now, that tension is <em>assumed<\/em> by us. Now, here\u2019s what I need to say about this: \u201cGod will <em>never<\/em> call you to do one command that will necessitate you breaking another.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Perhaps<\/em> that tension between family and ministry is set up because I want things out of ministry that I\u2019m not supposed to get\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014my identity and success, size of the church, power and prominence. What that will create is driven-ness: \u201cI\u2019ve got to get more,\u201d \u201cI\u2019ve got to get more,\u201d \u201cI\u2019ve got to do more,\u201d\u2014never enough accomplishment\u2014because those are fleeting identities. It\u2019s not that God has called me to two things that I can\u2019t do at the same time. It\u2019s that I\u2019m wanting something out of one\u2014that makes me neglectful of the other.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> It makes me make bad choices. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn one of my final classes in my doctoral program, I was sitting next to a South African brother\u2014he said, \u201cWhat are you doing this weekend?\u201d I said: \u201cI\u2019m going home. I\u2019m locking myself in a room. I\u2019m going to do <em>nothing<\/em> but study so I can master this exam.\u201d He said, \u201cHow many kids do you have?\u201d I said, \u201cI have four.\u201d He said, \u201cI assume you have a wife too.\u201d I said, \u201cYes.\u201d He said, \u201cYou know, ten years from now, no one will know whether you got an \u2018A,\u2019 \u2018B,\u2019 or \u2018C\u2019 in that class. But your willingness to make this bad choice could set you on a trajectory that could destroy precious things in your life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean\u2014he had me. I needed to hear those words, because I was obsessed. It had <em>nothing<\/em> to do with the honor of God\u2014it was my pride!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So what did you do that weekend?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> I went home. I studied for a couple of hours for the test; I put the stuff away; and I enjoyed my family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Do you remember what you made on the test?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> No. [Laughter] Maybe that\u2019s the point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> I don\u2019t remember, because I was so <em>relieved<\/em> of the burden. I knew I wasn\u2019t going to fail this program\u2014it didn\u2019t have anything to do with that. It was <em>pride<\/em> in ministry\u2014it was <em>identity <\/em>in ministry that was going to set up that tension\u2014make my wife and children feel like they were the sacrifices of ministry\u2014they were the abandoned ones.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Paul, I have to add my own personal illustration to your point. I had a mentor, early on in my life, who made the statement to me\u2014he said, \u201cBarbara is <em>not<\/em> a limitation to God accomplishing what He wants to do through you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEarly in the formation of FamilyLife, we were doing these <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways; and I was wanting Barbara to go with me and do more.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> By that point\u2014I don\u2019t remember if we had all six of our kids\u2014but she basically threw an anchor out that hit me on the head, multiple times, before God got my attention\u2014and said: \u201cI can\u2019t be out there, speaking with <em>you<\/em> on the road, and be here, at home\u2014your wife and the mother of our children. I can\u2019t do it all!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt that moment, I was faced with whether I would embrace the advice of my mentor or ignore the voice of my wife and just keep going and outrun the troops. I\u2019m convinced this was a key turning point\u2014probably, in our marriage and our ministry\u2014because we decided, at that point, I wouldn\u2019t try to drag her all over. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe would put a limit on the number of times we spoke, and we would build a speaker team.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It came out of realizing that my wife is a gift from God and designed for me to accomplish <em>everything<\/em> that God desires for me to do in life and in the ministry He\u2019s given us\u2014and not railing against that and not pushing back against that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> And I would just ask pastors to ask this simple question: \u201cMy ministry is functionally building monuments to whom?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cIs it for the glory of God or is it for the applause of men?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> Because God is not glorified if my children are questioning the faith because the faith is taking their daddy from them. Who would ever argue that glorifies God?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> No doubt about it. I\u2019m grateful for you writing this book, <em>Dangerous Calling. <\/em>It really is a dangerous calling, whether you\u2019re a pastor or in ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just appreciate your advice and your exhortations to all of us here. No one has done it perfectly, and we sure don\u2019t want to do life isolated. It is very dangerous. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong> I write and speak out of my own need. I feel rescued by the message that I am writing. Praise God for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019ll tell you what\u2014I think your transparency is going to help a lot of people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think this book is a gift for every pastor. Some of our listeners may want to get a copy of the book and pass it on to their pastor\u2014especially, here, during Pastor Appreciation Month. Dennis, I think some of our listeners may want to scholarship their pastor to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can find out more about Paul David Tripp\u2019s book, <em>Dangerous Calling, <\/em>or about how you can scholarship a pastor to an upcoming getaway. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information; or call us\u20141-800-FL-TODAY is our number. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, we\u2019re convinced that the work of a local church pastor\u2014and the work of the local church\u2014this is the frontline in what God is doing in our country today. It\u2019s the church that the gates of hell will not prevail against. As a ministry, we want to do all we can to help support the work of the local church. In fact, as we talk with you about our financial needs, here, at <em>FamilyLife<\/em>, we want to make sure that you are never diverting funds from your local church to our ministry. We believe that your local church should be your first and primary place where you are supporting the work of the Kingdom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBeyond that\u2014as you\u2019re able to help ministries, like <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, you enable us to reach more people more regularly with the kind of practical biblical help and hope that you hear on this radio program. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re grateful for those of you who do help fund this ministry. If you\u2019re able to make a donation today, we\u2019d love to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you Dennis Rainey\u2019s new book, which is called <em>Choosing a Life That Matters<\/em>. You can request the book when you donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY. You can also mail your donation to us at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBefore we\u2019re done today, please remember to pray for the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway that is taking place this weekend in Augusta, Georgia. Next weekend, we\u2019ve got getaways happening in Sacramento, California, and Fort Myers, Florida. Pray for the couples who will be attending these getaways. If it\u2019s been a while since you\u2019ve been to a getaway, be sure to check it out at FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014we\u2019d love to have you join us, this fall, at one of our upcoming getaways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend this weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church. And I hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk about letting go. I\u2019m not talking about a song from <em>Frozen<\/em>; I\u2019m talking about letting go of bitterness, or resentment, or unforgiveness. Dave Harvey and Paul Gilbert are going to be with us\u2014hope you can be with us as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll see you back Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/304714","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304714"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304714"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304714"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304714"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=304714"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=304714"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=304714"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}