{"id":304692,"date":"2017-09-21T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-09-21T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/is-feminism-the-answer\/"},"modified":"2017-09-21T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-09-21T15:00:00","slug":"is-feminism-the-answer","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/is-feminism-the-answer\/","title":{"rendered":"Is Feminism the Answer?"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>God created us in His image. Barbara Rainey, Mary Kassian, Carolyn McCulley, Courtney Reissig, and Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth expound on the foundation for biblical femininity.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-09-21.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:25","filesize":"25.11M","filesize_raw":"26330292","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2093],"tags":[6314,6313,6240,4001],"podcast_series":[8236],"cwp_profile":[8930,3160,3196],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304692","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-women","tag-biblical-femininity","tag-feminism","tag-genesis","tag-women","podcast_series-25-years-of-radio-the-essence-of-womanhood","cwp_profile-carolyn-mcculley","cwp_profile-mary-kassian","cwp_profile-nancy-demoss-wolgemuth","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304692\/is-feminism-the-answer","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304692\/is-feminism-the-answer","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"0i19D6uHOw\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/is-feminism-the-answer\/\">Is Feminism the Answer?<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/is-feminism-the-answer\/embed\/#?secret=0i19D6uHOw\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Is Feminism the Answer?&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"0i19D6uHOw\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-09-21.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-09-21.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There is a lot of talk about feminism in our day. Carolyn McCulley says there are roots of feminism that we need to be aware of\u2014roots that have a diabolical origin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>At its core, the seeds of feminism lie in all of our hearts; because the temptation is to say that what God has created and the boundaries that God has given to us for our lives are not good, and He is not wise, and any system that we can create is better. The same temptation exists for me today that did for Eve\u2014to look at something with my own eyes and say: \u201cHey, that\u2019s pretty good,\u201d \u201cThat looks good,\u201d \u201cThat must make me wise,\u201d \u201cThat would really help my life. So, I\u2019ll <em>reject<\/em> what I\u2019ve been taught.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, September 21<sup>st<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey; and I'm Bob Lepine. We\u2019re going to talk today about the good and the not so good that are a part of modern-day feminism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I knew, when I looked at what we were talking about today\u2014I knew exactly where you were going to turn your Bible, and you turned right to where I knew you were going to turn. [Laughter]\u00a0 It\u2019s easy to see where you are. You\u2019re on Page 1; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019ve just got to tell you\u2014first of all, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Sweetheart. Barbara joins us again\u2014my wife of 45 years\u2014think about that\u201445. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>I know. How did that happen?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Several years\u2014it just took\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>I guess, but it feels like a blink. Anyway, I\u2019m glad to be back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It was a blink, but it\u2019s been a blast!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>It has been fun!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We\u2019ve had a great journey\u2014not without our own valleys and mountaintops. Here\u2019s the thing, Bob. Marriage and family today is not taking place on a romantic balcony. It\u2019s taking place on a spiritual battlefield. Where we are seeing this played out is around the sanctity of marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt goes all the way back, upstream, to where I turned in my Bible\u2014to \u201cmale and female.\u201d In fact, let me just read to you what I turned to here\u2014Genesis, Chapter 1, verse 26: \u201cThen God said, \u2018Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness\u2019\u201d\u2014verse 27\u2014\u201cGod created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. And God blessed them. And God said to them, \u2018Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky\u2026\u2019\u201d\u2014and so forth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob, if this is where God started, it\u2019s not long after, in Genesis 3, until we see the enemy attacking. He attacked the first husband and wife, who were male and female; and he ultimately deceived them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey ended up being cast out of the garden. We\u2019ve been dealing with the consequences of their wrong choices, and their selfishness, and their decision to be god ever since. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, today, we come to the subject of genders and of maleness and femaleness\u2014and today, specifically, what it means to be a woman and what it looks like to be God\u2019s woman. This is a subject I\u2019ve got to plead with every man and woman\u2014husband, wife, mom, dad, grandparent\u2014who is listening: \u201cWe\u2019re not in a time where we need to be keeping our mouths shut. We need to be opening the Book and talking about what is unique about being a woman: \u201cWhat does God say about that?\u201d and \u201cHow should we equip the next generation of both girls and boys to think about how God made them?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>During this year, we have been spending time revisiting some of the subjects we\u2019ve addressed over the last 25 years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur 25<sup>th<\/sup> birthday for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> comes up, here, in a few months. One of the themes we have talked about over the years is the maleness and femaleness of humanity; because to understand marriage and understand family, you have to understand these core ideas of maleness and femaleness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Barbara, the idea of what it means to be a woman is something that\u2014it\u2019s gotten a lot of attention; but it feels, to me, like it\u2019s gotten more confusing over the years, not more clarified over the years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Well, I think it\u2019s confusing; because there are so many voices now trying to address what it means. We don\u2019t have a single source anymore. I think, for centuries, there was a single source; and that was the Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A number of years ago, we invited Mary Kassian, who is a writer and a speaker, to join us. She had done historical research on the feminist movement. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe stepped in and talked about how this movement emerged and kind of defined for us what\u2019s at the core of modern-day feminism. Listen to how she explained feminism for us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Incredibly relevant for today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary: <\/strong>Betty Friedan, who was an American journalist in 1963, wrote a book called <em>The Feminine Mystique<\/em>. In it, she said that women were secondary \/ that women were secondary to men in <em>everything<\/em>. Her whole question was: \u201c<em>How<\/em> do we give women significance?\u201d It was really interesting, actually; because the way that her book came about was\u2014she gave a handout \/ a questionnaire to her graduating class \/ her college graduating class. It was questions like: \u201cAre you fulfilled in your role as a wife and a mother?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe gave these questionnaires out, and it turned out that there were a lot of women who were feeling really frustrated in being wives and mothers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I personally question whether we gave\u2014if we gave that questionnaire out, <em>now<\/em>, to all the women, whether there would not be just the same level of discontentment. But she said this discontentment was a severe problem and that it needed to be dealt with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And in her view, the problem was that women lived in a culture where their role was <em>always<\/em> secondary in everything to the role of a man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. That was her view of the problem; and therefore, her solution was to bring it together\u2014that women ought to be brought up to pace and to do the same things that men did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, in the first stage of feminism, which lasted from about 1960 to 1970, the whole purpose was to obliterate differences between men and women so that men and women would be, essentially, the same.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0[Studio]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Again, that\u2019s Mary Kassian reflecting back on some of the historical roots of the feminist movement. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we should explain, Barbara, when we\u2019re talking about feminism, there is a difference between feminism and femininity. The Bible is pro-femininity. Whether it is pro-feminist or not really depends on how you define feminist. That\u2019s kind of a tricky thing to put your finger on today; isn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Well, I think what makes that incredibly complex is that, I think, the definition is unclear. I think different people are saying different things and meaning different things when they talk about feminism. I think feminism\u2014just because it\u2019s so closely tied to the word, femininity \/ I mean, they\u2019re spelled differently but very similarly\u2014I think that even adds to the confusion; because we want to know what it means to be feminine; but then, we hear \u201cfeminist.\u201d\u00a0 So, that even blurs it and makes it confusing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And what we\u2019re not saying, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, is that we want to suppress women further\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014absolutely not!\u00a0 If there is anything that we have done, we\u2019ve wanted to call men to honor <em>all<\/em> women\u2014I mean, treat them with dignity as God\u2019s creation and give your life <em>up<\/em> for them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; women are created in the image of God, just as men are created in the image of God. There is equality in terms of worth and value, and we\u2019ve tried to uphold that. I think a lot of people would say, \u201cWell, I\u2019m a feminist,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s all they\u2019re saying\u2014but when you get to some branches of feminism, Barbara, you get to ideas that go beyond equal pay for equal work or dignity for all people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>That\u2019s right, and that\u2019s why I think it\u2019s confusing to us. I think what the answer to this is\u2014is to find out what God says about women in the Bible to find out what He made us to do and how He made us to live on this earth. And I think the solution is found in becoming the woman that God made you to be\u2014not becoming what the culture or other voices say that you need to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I think the equality piece\u2014everyone agrees to\u2014but it\u2019s how we get there. If it\u2019s demanding and it\u2019s self-focused, that\u2019s not what God has called us to do. God has called us to love Him, and to please Him, and to serve Him. I think the key is where you\u2019re coming from: \u201cWhat is your heart?\u00a0 If your heart is to please God and to become the woman He made you to be, that\u2019s the place to start.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The route to becoming God\u2019s woman is found at the foot of the cross in surrender to Jesus Christ. We\u2019ll talk about it next month\u2014but we\u2019re going to talk about how to become God\u2019s man\u2014how to be a true man \/ a real man. It\u2019s not a self-route. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Barbara: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s not a self-promotion and self-exaltation. No! That\u2019s the root of our problem today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; in fact, you mentioned that\u2014listen to what Carolyn McCulley said about this when we were talking with her about the history of feminism and where some of the feminist ideology of our day came from. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is interesting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>At its core, the seeds of feminism lie in all of our hearts; because the temptation is to say that what God has created and the boundaries that God has given to us for our lives are not good, and He is not wise, and any system that we can create is better. The same temptation exists for me today that did for Eve\u2014to look at something with my own eyes and say: \u201cHey, that\u2019s pretty good,\u201d \u201cThat looks good,\u201d \u201cThat must make me wiser,\u201d \u201cThat would really help my life. So, I\u2019ll <em>reject<\/em> what I\u2019ve been taught and pursue something of my own making.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a political movement, feminism could be traced to the 19<sup>th<\/sup> century; but I think it\u2019s really a response of sin\u2014that\u2019s what Jesus came to save us from. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>And that goes to your point; right?\u00a0 We find our resolve in our maleness and femaleness by turning away from sin and self and turning to the cross. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I think, in this case, where you need to push back against feminism is when it starts sounding like the same voice which she just talked about in that little clip there\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014the voice that says: \u201cYou can have it your way!\u201d \u201cYou can be your own god!\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s how Eve was tempted in the garden. I think, today, there are a lot of women being tempted to have it <em>their<\/em> way\u2014they\u2019re wanting to reject the design that God has. I just go back to it: \u201cThere is no true femininity without surrender to Jesus Christ.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Barbara, you were on the college campus at the time when what\u2019s referred to today as second-wave feminism\u2014that Betty Friedan-inspired movement\u2014was really coming to full flower. Did you find yourself, as a young woman, thinking: \u201cWell, maybe, this is what I need to be. This is what I need to embrace\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>I actually didn\u2019t. The reason that I didn\u2019t is because I had just met Jesus Christ\u2014I had just become a Christian a year before that. So, I was viewing all of life through the Bible for the first time in my life; and that was such a change for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was really no temptation to look anywhere else, at that season in my life; because I had just discovered that my meaning, and my worth, and my value as a woman and as a human being came from Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHowever, I was watching other girls do it. I saw a lot of young women that I knew\u2014who were my friends \/ who I had been in college with for two or three years\u2014starting to adopt these patterns of thinking. Primarily, it showed up in the way they dressed, and they just began to dress much more frumpily. It was just an interesting thing to watch as these girls experimented with some of these ideas they were hearing. That was the way it expressed itself, outwardly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Courtney Reissig, who, as a young woman \/ a young mom\u2014she remembers embracing the thinking of her day, as a young woman. This was before she came to know Christ; but she was out in pursuit of kind of a triumphalistic feminine empowerment that ultimately had, at its core, sin and self. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This was not that long ago. Listen to how she talked about her own experience when we interviewed her a few years ago. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Courtney: <\/strong>People think feminism is the answer for women, and I actually think it\u2019s not. I think Genesis is the answer for women. God created us in His image\u2014so we\u2019re telling a story about God in our humanity; but then it also goes on to say, in Genesis 1:26 and 27, that He created male and female in His image. So, there has got to be something there about being female that images God that\u2019s not just mere humanity or biology. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that feminism was trying to answer a problem of the battle of the sexes, which is a problem that we see coming out of Genesis 3, where the sin entered the world; and now, we have strife. So, feminism isn\u2019t the answer. If we had just gone back to the Word of God, we could see that the answer is found in\u2014we were created to image God in very unique ways that tell a <em>story<\/em> about who God is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and a much better story than what feminism could ever tell us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You don\u2019t have any problems with equal pay for equal work, for women; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Courtney: <\/strong>No; no; I don\u2019t. A Christian women\u2019s author calls it: \u201cThe radical notion that Jesus believes that women are people too,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014which is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You would agree with that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Courtney: <\/strong>Absolutely!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; so, what\u2019s the difference between \u201cThe radical notion that Jesus believes that women are people too,\u201d and the kind of feminism that you would say is problematic in the church culture today?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Courtney: <\/strong>Because feminism is very fluid\u2014so, people\u2014you can\u2019t really pin it down. Some women will say\u2014like the other author would say: \u201cIt\u2019s the radical notion that women are people too,\u201d \/ some would say it\u2019s equality: \u201cEqual pay for equal work.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI define it as: \u201cEquality equals sameness.\u201d I believe I first heard Mary Kassian say that before\u2014is that: \u201cWe are equal; therefore, we are the <em>same<\/em>. So, we can do the same things. So, if a woman wants to preach, she can preach. Submission in marriage is mutual\u2014so it doesn\u2019t matter if the husband submits or the wife submits. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWe\u2019re both called to submit to one another. It doesn\u2019t matter who stays home with the children.\u201d\u00a0 So, it\u2019s the interchangeability of that: \u201cBesides biology, we\u2019re really not all that different.\u201d\u00a0 I think that <em>that\u2019s<\/em> the more problematic notion of feminism; and that\u2019s kind of what we all believe if we\u2019re not consciously looking beyond that for answers in Scripture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s Courtney Reissig\u2014an interesting observation, Dennis\u2014the whole idea that equality means sameness. We can be of equal value and equal worth without being the same; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We can. In fact, I didn\u2019t marry Barbara to make her the same as <em>me<\/em>. I want to afford her total equal value and worth in life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>We are very much not the same. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, we are <em>very<\/em> much not the same. [Laughter]\u00a0 I celebrate that, Sweetie. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Yes; I know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you\u2019re not trying to pursue sameness; are you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>No; I don\u2019t want to be like him, and he doesn\u2019t want to be like me because we are different; and we need those differences. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, we are <em>so<\/em> different; and because of that, we balance each other. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>But what if one of your daughters had wanted to be the kicker on the football team?\u00a0 What if one of your daughters had wanted to be in combat?\u2014she wanted to join the Army and be in combat?\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Wow; wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Yes?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What would you have done?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Well, I think it\u2019s really tricky; but I know my first instinct would be to discourage that. I don\u2019t really know what I would have done, because that would take a lot of thought. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I can answer that by saying: \u201cI\u2019d pray a lot. I\u2019d think a lot. I\u2019d seek some wise counsel,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019d be careful because I would want my daughter to be all of who God created her to be.\u201d\u00a0 I can\u2019t actually say what I would decide here. I think I would probably have gone along with what Barbara said, but you\u2019re asking me on the spur of the moment. I\u2019ve never experienced that, but I would pray about it a lot. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I think the point is: \u201cThe goal should be: \u2018Who has God created my daughter to be?\u2019\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Yes; that\u2019s the goal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cWhat are the good works that He prepared beforehand that she should walk in them?\u201d and \u201cHow do I help that happen?\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s where you do need to be prayerful; and you need to be seeking His counsel, looking at what the Bible has to say, and then pointing your daughter in that direction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Absolutely. That really was the goal with which we raised our kids\u2014is we wanted all six of our children, the girls and the boys, to do what God made them to do to become the people that God made them to be and to find out what He wanted them to do and to follow it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well said, Sweetheart: \u201cTrain your kids to follow Christ.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In the midst of the confusion, we asked Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, back when she was still Nancy Leigh DeMoss\u2014[Laughter]\u2014we asked her to give us her understanding of what it is that God has called women to do and to be: \u201cWhat\u2019s a biblical understanding of womanhood?\u201d\u00a0 Here\u2019s what she said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>For me, the essence of femininity is to embrace the concept of surrender\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014as a woman, to become a receiver, a responder, and surrendered to the heart and the will of God. I love the example of Mary, the mother of Jesus. To me, she is a portrait of what it means to be a woman of God. When the angel came to Mary and explained to her that she was going to be a mother of the Son of God, Mary\u2019s response was: \u201cI am the Lord\u2019s servant. May it be unto me according as you have said.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor me, the difficulty\u2014and I think it\u2019s true for every human being\u2014is to embrace what God has said\u2014to say, \u201cLet it be to me as you have said.\u201d\u00a0 And that means for <em>all of us<\/em>, male and female, that there are restrictions\u2014that there are certain roles that we are not asked to play \/ that we are not designed to fulfill. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd sure, my flesh has chaffed against embracing those roles and those restrictions at time; but it\u2019s the enemy that causes us to see those as restrictions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s God\u2019s way to see those limitations as loving limitations, as wise limitations, and as a means of protection\u2014even as you protect your children from the oncoming traffic by teaching them not to step off of that curb in front of the house. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Our assignment, as parents, is to embrace God\u2019s design\u2014receive it. A Christian\u2019s definition of success in the roles of men and women is around God and in surrendering to that which God has called him to be and to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I wonder sometimes, Bob, even within the Christian community, how foolish we\u2019ve become in buying into this trap, as we raise our daughters\u2014seemingly, to prop their ladders against the careerism wall and to say that the goal of their education \/ the goal of their lives ought to be a career. \u201cWait a second!\u00a0 Where is that in the Bible?\u00a0 Where\u2019s the home here?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWhere are relationships here?\u00a0 Where is the next generation here?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>I\u2019ve been involved in ministry to women\u2014and women in the church, primarily\u2014and have found that women today, by and large, are frustrated; in many cases angry, hurt, wounded; and hardened in some cases. It\u2019s not difficult to convince women today that the world\u2019s way has not worked. The world has promised freedom, and success, and joy; but it hasn\u2019t delivered. So, what a time for us to hold up the standard of God\u2019s Word and say: \u201cHere\u2019s what God offers!\u00a0 This is the means to true freedom.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, that\u2019s Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth from about 20 years ago, by the way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>My voice has changed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Wow. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s from before she had begun <em>Revive Our Hearts<\/em> and the ministry that she\u2019s involved with today; but listening to that, here is the takeaway: \u201cIf you\u2019re trying to find\u2014as a woman or as a man, for that matter\u2014if you\u2019re trying to find fulfillment, and joy, and flourishing from some ideology that is not anchored in Scripture, you are barking up the wrong tree.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d encourage our listeners\u2014go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019ve got a number of resources available there from some of the guests we\u2019ve heard from today that talk about how our soul can be anchored in what the Scriptures teach and how women, in particular, can find joy, and hope, and meaning, and purpose for their lives by embracing God\u2019s design for them. Our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019ve got articles and books available there that talk about: \u201cWhat is at the essence of biblical womanhood?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if you\u2019re raising a daughter today, and she\u2019s 13 or 14 or 15 years old, let me encourage you to take a couple of days and get away with her and have a <em>Passport2Identity<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> getaway, where the two of you can explore some of these themes and help direct and shape her thinking around how god has created her, as a young woman\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014because, I promise you, the culture is speaking loudly to her. You need to make sure you\u2019re speaking as loud as well. Find out more about the <em>Passport2Identity<\/em> resource that we\u2019ve created for both young men and young women. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com; or call if you have any questions\u20141-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, these subjects that we tackle on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014sometimes, they are uncomfortable. We often find ourselves going against the grain of contemporary culture, but the book of Romans tells us that we are to go against the grain: \u201cDon\u2019t be conformed to the thinking of this culture,\u201d\u2014the Bible says\u2014\u201cbut be transformed by having your mind renewed by what the Bible teaches.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>And that\u2019s our goal, here, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014we want to provide practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you invest in this ministry, what you\u2019re investing in is for this message to be heard by more people, more often, all around the world. Your donations go to extend the reach of this ministry, and we\u2019re grateful for the partnership we have with you as regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. We\u2019d love to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d for your investment this month with a resource that Dennis Rainey has just completed. It\u2019s a new book called <em>Choosing a Life That Matters<\/em>, and we believe this book really matters. In fact, we\u2019d love to get it in as many hands \/ in as many homes as possible. So, it\u2019s available when you make a donation of any amount today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJust go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014donate online\u2014or call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014donate over the phone and ask for your copy of Dennis\u2019s book when you call to make a donation; or you can mail your donation to us, along with a request for the book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur mailing address is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223. Again, the title of the book is <em>Choosing a Life That Matters<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to look at what the Bible says about womanhood. Are there specific things that God\u2019s Word says about the differences between men and women that go beyond the biological?\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk more about that tomorrow. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; A Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:25"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.11M"],"filesize_raw":["26330292"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304692.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304692.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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created us in His image. Barbara Rainey, Mary Kassian, Carolyn McCulley, Courtney Reissig, and Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth expound on the foundation for biblical femininity.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-09-21.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There is a lot of talk about feminism in our day. Carolyn McCulley says there are roots of feminism that we need to be aware of\u2014roots that have a diabolical origin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>At its core, the seeds of feminism lie in all of our hearts; because the temptation is to say that what God has created and the boundaries that God has given to us for our lives are not good, and He is not wise, and any system that we can create is better. The same temptation exists for me today that did for Eve\u2014to look at something with my own eyes and say: \u201cHey, that\u2019s pretty good,\u201d \u201cThat looks good,\u201d \u201cThat must make me wise,\u201d \u201cThat would really help my life. So, I\u2019ll <em>reject<\/em> what I\u2019ve been taught.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, September 21<sup>st<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey; and I'm Bob Lepine. We\u2019re going to talk today about the good and the not so good that are a part of modern-day feminism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I knew, when I looked at what we were talking about today\u2014I knew exactly where you were going to turn your Bible, and you turned right to where I knew you were going to turn. [Laughter]\u00a0 It\u2019s easy to see where you are. You\u2019re on Page 1; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019ve just got to tell you\u2014first of all, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Sweetheart. Barbara joins us again\u2014my wife of 45 years\u2014think about that\u201445. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>I know. How did that happen?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Several years\u2014it just took\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>I guess, but it feels like a blink. Anyway, I\u2019m glad to be back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It was a blink, but it\u2019s been a blast!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>It has been fun!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We\u2019ve had a great journey\u2014not without our own valleys and mountaintops. Here\u2019s the thing, Bob. Marriage and family today is not taking place on a romantic balcony. It\u2019s taking place on a spiritual battlefield. Where we are seeing this played out is around the sanctity of marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt goes all the way back, upstream, to where I turned in my Bible\u2014to \u201cmale and female.\u201d In fact, let me just read to you what I turned to here\u2014Genesis, Chapter 1, verse 26: \u201cThen God said, \u2018Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness\u2019\u201d\u2014verse 27\u2014\u201cGod created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. And God blessed them. And God said to them, \u2018Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky\u2026\u2019\u201d\u2014and so forth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob, if this is where God started, it\u2019s not long after, in Genesis 3, until we see the enemy attacking. He attacked the first husband and wife, who were male and female; and he ultimately deceived them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey ended up being cast out of the garden. We\u2019ve been dealing with the consequences of their wrong choices, and their selfishness, and their decision to be god ever since. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, today, we come to the subject of genders and of maleness and femaleness\u2014and today, specifically, what it means to be a woman and what it looks like to be God\u2019s woman. This is a subject I\u2019ve got to plead with every man and woman\u2014husband, wife, mom, dad, grandparent\u2014who is listening: \u201cWe\u2019re not in a time where we need to be keeping our mouths shut. We need to be opening the Book and talking about what is unique about being a woman: \u201cWhat does God say about that?\u201d and \u201cHow should we equip the next generation of both girls and boys to think about how God made them?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>During this year, we have been spending time revisiting some of the subjects we\u2019ve addressed over the last 25 years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur 25<sup>th<\/sup> birthday for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> comes up, here, in a few months. One of the themes we have talked about over the years is the maleness and femaleness of humanity; because to understand marriage and understand family, you have to understand these core ideas of maleness and femaleness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Barbara, the idea of what it means to be a woman is something that\u2014it\u2019s gotten a lot of attention; but it feels, to me, like it\u2019s gotten more confusing over the years, not more clarified over the years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Well, I think it\u2019s confusing; because there are so many voices now trying to address what it means. We don\u2019t have a single source anymore. I think, for centuries, there was a single source; and that was the Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A number of years ago, we invited Mary Kassian, who is a writer and a speaker, to join us. She had done historical research on the feminist movement. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe stepped in and talked about how this movement emerged and kind of defined for us what\u2019s at the core of modern-day feminism. Listen to how she explained feminism for us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Incredibly relevant for today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary: <\/strong>Betty Friedan, who was an American journalist in 1963, wrote a book called <em>The Feminine Mystique<\/em>. In it, she said that women were secondary \/ that women were secondary to men in <em>everything<\/em>. Her whole question was: \u201c<em>How<\/em> do we give women significance?\u201d It was really interesting, actually; because the way that her book came about was\u2014she gave a handout \/ a questionnaire to her graduating class \/ her college graduating class. It was questions like: \u201cAre you fulfilled in your role as a wife and a mother?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe gave these questionnaires out, and it turned out that there were a lot of women who were feeling really frustrated in being wives and mothers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I personally question whether we gave\u2014if we gave that questionnaire out, <em>now<\/em>, to all the women, whether there would not be just the same level of discontentment. But she said this discontentment was a severe problem and that it needed to be dealt with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And in her view, the problem was that women lived in a culture where their role was <em>always<\/em> secondary in everything to the role of a man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. That was her view of the problem; and therefore, her solution was to bring it together\u2014that women ought to be brought up to pace and to do the same things that men did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, in the first stage of feminism, which lasted from about 1960 to 1970, the whole purpose was to obliterate differences between men and women so that men and women would be, essentially, the same.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0[Studio]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Again, that\u2019s Mary Kassian reflecting back on some of the historical roots of the feminist movement. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we should explain, Barbara, when we\u2019re talking about feminism, there is a difference between feminism and femininity. The Bible is pro-femininity. Whether it is pro-feminist or not really depends on how you define feminist. That\u2019s kind of a tricky thing to put your finger on today; isn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Well, I think what makes that incredibly complex is that, I think, the definition is unclear. I think different people are saying different things and meaning different things when they talk about feminism. I think feminism\u2014just because it\u2019s so closely tied to the word, femininity \/ I mean, they\u2019re spelled differently but very similarly\u2014I think that even adds to the confusion; because we want to know what it means to be feminine; but then, we hear \u201cfeminist.\u201d\u00a0 So, that even blurs it and makes it confusing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And what we\u2019re not saying, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, is that we want to suppress women further\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014absolutely not!\u00a0 If there is anything that we have done, we\u2019ve wanted to call men to honor <em>all<\/em> women\u2014I mean, treat them with dignity as God\u2019s creation and give your life <em>up<\/em> for them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; women are created in the image of God, just as men are created in the image of God. There is equality in terms of worth and value, and we\u2019ve tried to uphold that. I think a lot of people would say, \u201cWell, I\u2019m a feminist,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s all they\u2019re saying\u2014but when you get to some branches of feminism, Barbara, you get to ideas that go beyond equal pay for equal work or dignity for all people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>That\u2019s right, and that\u2019s why I think it\u2019s confusing to us. I think what the answer to this is\u2014is to find out what God says about women in the Bible to find out what He made us to do and how He made us to live on this earth. And I think the solution is found in becoming the woman that God made you to be\u2014not becoming what the culture or other voices say that you need to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I think the equality piece\u2014everyone agrees to\u2014but it\u2019s how we get there. If it\u2019s demanding and it\u2019s self-focused, that\u2019s not what God has called us to do. God has called us to love Him, and to please Him, and to serve Him. I think the key is where you\u2019re coming from: \u201cWhat is your heart?\u00a0 If your heart is to please God and to become the woman He made you to be, that\u2019s the place to start.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The route to becoming God\u2019s woman is found at the foot of the cross in surrender to Jesus Christ. We\u2019ll talk about it next month\u2014but we\u2019re going to talk about how to become God\u2019s man\u2014how to be a true man \/ a real man. It\u2019s not a self-route. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Barbara: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s not a self-promotion and self-exaltation. No! That\u2019s the root of our problem today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; in fact, you mentioned that\u2014listen to what Carolyn McCulley said about this when we were talking with her about the history of feminism and where some of the feminist ideology of our day came from. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is interesting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carolyn: <\/strong>At its core, the seeds of feminism lie in all of our hearts; because the temptation is to say that what God has created and the boundaries that God has given to us for our lives are not good, and He is not wise, and any system that we can create is better. The same temptation exists for me today that did for Eve\u2014to look at something with my own eyes and say: \u201cHey, that\u2019s pretty good,\u201d \u201cThat looks good,\u201d \u201cThat must make me wiser,\u201d \u201cThat would really help my life. So, I\u2019ll <em>reject<\/em> what I\u2019ve been taught and pursue something of my own making.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a political movement, feminism could be traced to the 19<sup>th<\/sup> century; but I think it\u2019s really a response of sin\u2014that\u2019s what Jesus came to save us from. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>And that goes to your point; right?\u00a0 We find our resolve in our maleness and femaleness by turning away from sin and self and turning to the cross. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I think, in this case, where you need to push back against feminism is when it starts sounding like the same voice which she just talked about in that little clip there\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014the voice that says: \u201cYou can have it your way!\u201d \u201cYou can be your own god!\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s how Eve was tempted in the garden. I think, today, there are a lot of women being tempted to have it <em>their<\/em> way\u2014they\u2019re wanting to reject the design that God has. I just go back to it: \u201cThere is no true femininity without surrender to Jesus Christ.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Barbara, you were on the college campus at the time when what\u2019s referred to today as second-wave feminism\u2014that Betty Friedan-inspired movement\u2014was really coming to full flower. Did you find yourself, as a young woman, thinking: \u201cWell, maybe, this is what I need to be. This is what I need to embrace\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>I actually didn\u2019t. The reason that I didn\u2019t is because I had just met Jesus Christ\u2014I had just become a Christian a year before that. So, I was viewing all of life through the Bible for the first time in my life; and that was such a change for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was really no temptation to look anywhere else, at that season in my life; because I had just discovered that my meaning, and my worth, and my value as a woman and as a human being came from Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHowever, I was watching other girls do it. I saw a lot of young women that I knew\u2014who were my friends \/ who I had been in college with for two or three years\u2014starting to adopt these patterns of thinking. Primarily, it showed up in the way they dressed, and they just began to dress much more frumpily. It was just an interesting thing to watch as these girls experimented with some of these ideas they were hearing. That was the way it expressed itself, outwardly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Courtney Reissig, who, as a young woman \/ a young mom\u2014she remembers embracing the thinking of her day, as a young woman. This was before she came to know Christ; but she was out in pursuit of kind of a triumphalistic feminine empowerment that ultimately had, at its core, sin and self. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This was not that long ago. Listen to how she talked about her own experience when we interviewed her a few years ago. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Courtney: <\/strong>People think feminism is the answer for women, and I actually think it\u2019s not. I think Genesis is the answer for women. God created us in His image\u2014so we\u2019re telling a story about God in our humanity; but then it also goes on to say, in Genesis 1:26 and 27, that He created male and female in His image. So, there has got to be something there about being female that images God that\u2019s not just mere humanity or biology. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that feminism was trying to answer a problem of the battle of the sexes, which is a problem that we see coming out of Genesis 3, where the sin entered the world; and now, we have strife. So, feminism isn\u2019t the answer. If we had just gone back to the Word of God, we could see that the answer is found in\u2014we were created to image God in very unique ways that tell a <em>story<\/em> about who God is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and a much better story than what feminism could ever tell us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You don\u2019t have any problems with equal pay for equal work, for women; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Courtney: <\/strong>No; no; I don\u2019t. A Christian women\u2019s author calls it: \u201cThe radical notion that Jesus believes that women are people too,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014which is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You would agree with that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Courtney: <\/strong>Absolutely!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; so, what\u2019s the difference between \u201cThe radical notion that Jesus believes that women are people too,\u201d and the kind of feminism that you would say is problematic in the church culture today?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Courtney: <\/strong>Because feminism is very fluid\u2014so, people\u2014you can\u2019t really pin it down. Some women will say\u2014like the other author would say: \u201cIt\u2019s the radical notion that women are people too,\u201d \/ some would say it\u2019s equality: \u201cEqual pay for equal work.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI define it as: \u201cEquality equals sameness.\u201d I believe I first heard Mary Kassian say that before\u2014is that: \u201cWe are equal; therefore, we are the <em>same<\/em>. So, we can do the same things. So, if a woman wants to preach, she can preach. Submission in marriage is mutual\u2014so it doesn\u2019t matter if the husband submits or the wife submits. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWe\u2019re both called to submit to one another. It doesn\u2019t matter who stays home with the children.\u201d\u00a0 So, it\u2019s the interchangeability of that: \u201cBesides biology, we\u2019re really not all that different.\u201d\u00a0 I think that <em>that\u2019s<\/em> the more problematic notion of feminism; and that\u2019s kind of what we all believe if we\u2019re not consciously looking beyond that for answers in Scripture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s Courtney Reissig\u2014an interesting observation, Dennis\u2014the whole idea that equality means sameness. We can be of equal value and equal worth without being the same; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We can. In fact, I didn\u2019t marry Barbara to make her the same as <em>me<\/em>. I want to afford her total equal value and worth in life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>We are very much not the same. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh, we are <em>very<\/em> much not the same. [Laughter]\u00a0 I celebrate that, Sweetie. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Yes; I know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you\u2019re not trying to pursue sameness; are you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>No; I don\u2019t want to be like him, and he doesn\u2019t want to be like me because we are different; and we need those differences. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, we are <em>so<\/em> different; and because of that, we balance each other. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>But what if one of your daughters had wanted to be the kicker on the football team?\u00a0 What if one of your daughters had wanted to be in combat?\u2014she wanted to join the Army and be in combat?\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Wow; wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Yes?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What would you have done?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Well, I think it\u2019s really tricky; but I know my first instinct would be to discourage that. I don\u2019t really know what I would have done, because that would take a lot of thought. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I can answer that by saying: \u201cI\u2019d pray a lot. I\u2019d think a lot. I\u2019d seek some wise counsel,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019d be careful because I would want my daughter to be all of who God created her to be.\u201d\u00a0 I can\u2019t actually say what I would decide here. I think I would probably have gone along with what Barbara said, but you\u2019re asking me on the spur of the moment. I\u2019ve never experienced that, but I would pray about it a lot. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I think the point is: \u201cThe goal should be: \u2018Who has God created my daughter to be?\u2019\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Yes; that\u2019s the goal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cWhat are the good works that He prepared beforehand that she should walk in them?\u201d and \u201cHow do I help that happen?\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s where you do need to be prayerful; and you need to be seeking His counsel, looking at what the Bible has to say, and then pointing your daughter in that direction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Absolutely. That really was the goal with which we raised our kids\u2014is we wanted all six of our children, the girls and the boys, to do what God made them to do to become the people that God made them to be and to find out what He wanted them to do and to follow it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well said, Sweetheart: \u201cTrain your kids to follow Christ.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In the midst of the confusion, we asked Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, back when she was still Nancy Leigh DeMoss\u2014[Laughter]\u2014we asked her to give us her understanding of what it is that God has called women to do and to be: \u201cWhat\u2019s a biblical understanding of womanhood?\u201d\u00a0 Here\u2019s what she said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>For me, the essence of femininity is to embrace the concept of surrender\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014as a woman, to become a receiver, a responder, and surrendered to the heart and the will of God. I love the example of Mary, the mother of Jesus. To me, she is a portrait of what it means to be a woman of God. When the angel came to Mary and explained to her that she was going to be a mother of the Son of God, Mary\u2019s response was: \u201cI am the Lord\u2019s servant. May it be unto me according as you have said.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor me, the difficulty\u2014and I think it\u2019s true for every human being\u2014is to embrace what God has said\u2014to say, \u201cLet it be to me as you have said.\u201d\u00a0 And that means for <em>all of us<\/em>, male and female, that there are restrictions\u2014that there are certain roles that we are not asked to play \/ that we are not designed to fulfill. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd sure, my flesh has chaffed against embracing those roles and those restrictions at time; but it\u2019s the enemy that causes us to see those as restrictions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s God\u2019s way to see those limitations as loving limitations, as wise limitations, and as a means of protection\u2014even as you protect your children from the oncoming traffic by teaching them not to step off of that curb in front of the house. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Our assignment, as parents, is to embrace God\u2019s design\u2014receive it. A Christian\u2019s definition of success in the roles of men and women is around God and in surrendering to that which God has called him to be and to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I wonder sometimes, Bob, even within the Christian community, how foolish we\u2019ve become in buying into this trap, as we raise our daughters\u2014seemingly, to prop their ladders against the careerism wall and to say that the goal of their education \/ the goal of their lives ought to be a career. \u201cWait a second!\u00a0 Where is that in the Bible?\u00a0 Where\u2019s the home here?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWhere are relationships here?\u00a0 Where is the next generation here?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>I\u2019ve been involved in ministry to women\u2014and women in the church, primarily\u2014and have found that women today, by and large, are frustrated; in many cases angry, hurt, wounded; and hardened in some cases. It\u2019s not difficult to convince women today that the world\u2019s way has not worked. The world has promised freedom, and success, and joy; but it hasn\u2019t delivered. So, what a time for us to hold up the standard of God\u2019s Word and say: \u201cHere\u2019s what God offers!\u00a0 This is the means to true freedom.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, that\u2019s Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth from about 20 years ago, by the way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>My voice has changed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Wow. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s from before she had begun <em>Revive Our Hearts<\/em> and the ministry that she\u2019s involved with today; but listening to that, here is the takeaway: \u201cIf you\u2019re trying to find\u2014as a woman or as a man, for that matter\u2014if you\u2019re trying to find fulfillment, and joy, and flourishing from some ideology that is not anchored in Scripture, you are barking up the wrong tree.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d encourage our listeners\u2014go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019ve got a number of resources available there from some of the guests we\u2019ve heard from today that talk about how our soul can be anchored in what the Scriptures teach and how women, in particular, can find joy, and hope, and meaning, and purpose for their lives by embracing God\u2019s design for them. Our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019ve got articles and books available there that talk about: \u201cWhat is at the essence of biblical womanhood?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if you\u2019re raising a daughter today, and she\u2019s 13 or 14 or 15 years old, let me encourage you to take a couple of days and get away with her and have a <em>Passport2Identity<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> getaway, where the two of you can explore some of these themes and help direct and shape her thinking around how god has created her, as a young woman\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014because, I promise you, the culture is speaking loudly to her. You need to make sure you\u2019re speaking as loud as well. Find out more about the <em>Passport2Identity<\/em> resource that we\u2019ve created for both young men and young women. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com; or call if you have any questions\u20141-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, these subjects that we tackle on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014sometimes, they are uncomfortable. We often find ourselves going against the grain of contemporary culture, but the book of Romans tells us that we are to go against the grain: \u201cDon\u2019t be conformed to the thinking of this culture,\u201d\u2014the Bible says\u2014\u201cbut be transformed by having your mind renewed by what the Bible teaches.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>And that\u2019s our goal, here, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014we want to provide practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you invest in this ministry, what you\u2019re investing in is for this message to be heard by more people, more often, all around the world. Your donations go to extend the reach of this ministry, and we\u2019re grateful for the partnership we have with you as regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. We\u2019d love to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d for your investment this month with a resource that Dennis Rainey has just completed. It\u2019s a new book called <em>Choosing a Life That Matters<\/em>, and we believe this book really matters. In fact, we\u2019d love to get it in as many hands \/ in as many homes as possible. So, it\u2019s available when you make a donation of any amount today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJust go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014donate online\u2014or call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014donate over the phone and ask for your copy of Dennis\u2019s book when you call to make a donation; or you can mail your donation to us, along with a request for the book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur mailing address is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223. Again, the title of the book is <em>Choosing a Life That Matters<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to look at what the Bible says about womanhood. Are there specific things that God\u2019s Word says about the differences between men and women that go beyond the biological?\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk more about that tomorrow. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; A Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/304692","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304692"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304692"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304692"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304692"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=304692"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=304692"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=304692"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}