{"id":304676,"date":"2017-09-11T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-09-11T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/overcoming-scars-from-the-past\/"},"modified":"2017-09-11T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-09-11T15:00:00","slug":"overcoming-scars-from-the-past","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/overcoming-scars-from-the-past\/","title":{"rendered":"Overcoming Scars From the Past"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dave and Ann Wilson recall their earliest years of marriage and the problems they couldn&#8217;t resolve. Hear how God gave their hearts a makeover and transformed their shaky marriage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-09-11.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:34","filesize":"25.24M","filesize_raw":"26461121","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2883,2863,2862],"tags":[2877,5000],"podcast_series":[8233],"cwp_profile":[3554,3295],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304676","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-resurrected-marriages","category-saving-a-marriage","category-understanding-differences","tag-marriage","tag-sexual-past","podcast_series-marriage-tested-in-the-furnace","cwp_profile-ann-wilson","cwp_profile-dave-wilson","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304676\/overcoming-scars-from-the-past","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304676\/overcoming-scars-from-the-past","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"ZTa1EFjpxp\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/overcoming-scars-from-the-past\/\">Overcoming Scars From the Past<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/overcoming-scars-from-the-past\/embed\/#?secret=ZTa1EFjpxp\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Overcoming Scars From the Past&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"ZTa1EFjpxp\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-09-11.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-09-11.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It wasn\u2019t until after Dave and Ann Wilson had said, \u201cI do,\u201d to one another that they both began to realize there were issues they were going to have to figure out how to deal with in their new marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Some of our baggage, to be truthful, was things that we had done, sexually, with other people. I felt like: \u201cAm I good enough? Do I compare?\u201d I didn\u2019t trust him\u2014not because he had done anything in our marriage that was untrustworthy\u2014but I wondered if his past would catch up with who he was now. I was incredibly insecure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, September 11<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey; and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 When you bring baggage into a marriage relationship and its affecting you marriage today, what do you do about that? We\u2019ll hear from Dave and Ann Wilson today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Monday edition. Our regular listeners are going to recognize our guests today. In fact, folks who have been through <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> video series will recognize our guests. If you\u2019ve been on any of the last two or three <em>Love Like You Mean It Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>cruises, you\u2019ll recognize our guests today. If you\u2019ve been to one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> getaways, you\u2019re going to know our guests; because this couple has been a part of all that we\u2019re doing, here, at FamilyLife for a couple of decades now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dave and Ann Wilson join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Dave\/Ann\u2014welcome back to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We are excited to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So excited to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019ll just mention, for those who don\u2019t know Dave and Ann, Dave is one of the pastors at Kensington Community Church in the Detroit area \/ chaplain for the Detroit Lions. You\u2019ve been in Kensington for a couple of decades now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2: 00 <\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey are parents to three sons and grandparents to two grandchildren as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAny of our listeners, who have gone through <em>The<\/em> <em>Art of Marriage <\/em>video series, have seen you guys\u2014in Session Two\u2014share the story of your tenth wedding anniversary. We\u2019ve got the clips of that story if our listeners would like to see it, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI also want to mention\u2014and just give me a minute here\u2014this is the last week for <em>FamilyLifeToday <\/em>visitors who may want to attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>marriage getaway to register for the event and save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. This week, we\u2019re extending that offer to our listeners. You can go online to find out dates and locations for upcoming events; or you can call if you have any questions at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you register this week, and you use the code: \u201cSAVE50\u201d\u2014that\u2019s SAVE 5-0\u2014you will automatically qualify for a 50 percent reduction in the regular registration amount and you\u2019ll be signed up for a great weekend getaway this fall. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re going to be in dozens of cities. I\u2019m going to be speaking in Parsippany; but again, we\u2019ll be in locations all across the country. We\u2019d love to have you join us for a getaway. Sign up this week to save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. Whether you\u2019ve been married for two month or for four decades, this is a <em>great<\/em> getaway for husbands and wives to refocus on your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was thinking about couples, who are in the early years of their marriage\u2014you guys, I\u2019ve heard you share before. You struggled in those early months of your marriage; didn\u2019t you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Within six months, I did not even like Dave. I really, honestly\u2014I thought, \u201cI\u2019ve made the <em>worst<\/em> decision of my life by marrying him.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Now wait. You\u2019ve never said it <em>that<\/em> blatant before\u2014seriously! [Laughter] \u201c\u2026the <em>worst<\/em>\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You say in <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> that before you married Dave, this was kind of the dream of your life to marry Dave Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He was my dream \/ he was the <em>dream<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t like this \u201cwas\u201d word. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, I should\u2014and he still is. But honestly, we were believers; we loved Jesus. I knew that Dave loved Jesus. We loved each other. We thought: \u201cHow hard can it be to be married? We loved each other \/ we loved Jesus. It\u2019s going to all happen, and it will be great.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, six months from the pinnacle day of your life\u2014marrying the man of your dreams\u2014to going, \u201cI made a huge mistake,\u201d\u2014what happened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think what happened is we weren\u2019t prepared, even though we went to a <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>marriage conference. We really thought, \u201cOh, this is such good material for these <em>other<\/em> needy people.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We actually sat at that conference, two weeks before our wedding, and snickered throughout the conference, like,\u201d How in the world do these people need to write all these notes down?\u201d I mean, it was great conference \/ great content.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014but: \u201cHow do they not know?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We just thought, \u201cIt will not apply to us.\u201d In an arrogant sort of way, we thought: \u201cWe are better than all these people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIt will be easy.\u201d I\u2019m not kidding\u2014we\u2019re in full time ministry as well \/ we go into full time ministry. We\u2019re ministering to athletes at the University of Nebraska\u2014first year of marriage. I bet we fought every night\u2014almost every night. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Over what? What\u2019d you fight about?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You know\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We didn\u2019t like each other. That was a big part of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to be honest \/ to be truly honest, we both had baggage that we brought into the marriage that we weren\u2019t aware of. Some of our baggage, to be truthful, was things we had done, sexually, with other people. I felt this incredible insecurity\u2014I felt like: \u201cAm I good enough? Do I compare?\u201d I worried about him \/ I didn\u2019t trust him\u2014not because he had done anything in our marriage that was untrustworthy\u2014but because of his past, I wondered if his past would catch up with who he was now; and I was incredibly insecure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, I look at this culture today\u2014the hook-up culture\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014I hear the lies that they are being fed by the culture. You know there\u2019s going to be a pay day \/ you know there\u2019s going to be consequences in these lives, because of the choices people make. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYet, there\u2019s some baggage, Dave\u2014that you bring into a marriage that has nothing to do with wrong choices \/ it\u2019s just what life brings you every day. When you were six-years-old, you had a couple of tragedies in your life that dramatically impacted you as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I should have known better that this is going to impact my marriage. I never even thought\u2014how na\u00efve can you be?\u2014to think my dad walks out when I\u2019m seven years old \/ six-and-a-half years old\u2014so I grow up in a single-parent home, which was <em>awesome<\/em>. I mean, my mom was a saint \/ she was <em>unbelievable<\/em>\u2014but I didn\u2019t know my dad\u2014never knew what, really, a husband or a dad look like \/ had no model for that. My little brother dies six months after the divorce\u2014so it\u2019s just my mom and [me] my whole life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, you think: \u201cYou start dating and fall in love, and you\u2019re going to get married.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, that\u2019s sort of going to come into your marriage\u2014<em>never<\/em> even had the thought\u2014how na\u00efve could we be?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And the other thing that happened\u2014we were very different in our styles of conflict. Dave <em>hated<\/em> conflict. So when we would get in a fight, and I would be voicing some of my insecurities or lack of trust, I would voice it and he would walk out of the room. Well, that would just get me <em>hot<\/em>. This one time, he walked out of the room and he said, \u201cI don\u2019t need this!\u201d I yelled back at him, \u201cYou come back here and fight like a man, you chicken!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you walked back in and did what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No; he didn\u2019t walk back in!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; I stepped back in, and I cursed at her and walked out again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And in a sense, I never connected these dots until years later. I did exactly what I thought a man does, and I had seen my dad do. Obviously, I was a withdrawer. When I saw conflict, it was bad\u2014it ended in divorce\u2014so you run from it. So, I married a woman, who is like, \u201cLet\u2019s talk.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, Ann, here\u2019s his background. What kind of a home had you grown up in? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I had a home where we talked about everything. Sometimes, it would get loud; but there was also an understanding that whatever you say matters and: \u201cLet\u2019s talk this out until we resolve it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen Dave left the room, I couldn\u2019t even imagine what was going on\u2014like: \u201cI don\u2019t understand this. Why would you leave?\u201d It felt like: \u201cYou don\u2019t love me. You don\u2019t care about me,\u201d and \u201cYou don\u2019t care about our relationship.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You knew about each other\u2019s family backgrounds before you got married\u2014maybe not at a level of depth that you came to understand\u2014but you knew he was raised by a single mom. There were issues, you said, about your sexual past that you didn\u2019t share with one another, prior to marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We <em>did<\/em> share.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You shared and thought: \u201cOkay; but that was no big deal\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We thought\u2014I said, \u201cI forgive you,\u201d and he forgave me; but we had no idea that that doesn\u2019t get rid of the baggage, necessarily.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; we thought what so many couples think: \u201cIt\u2019s in the past.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIt doesn\u2019t have consequences that live on.\u201d The <em>lie<\/em> that so many believe is: \u201cChoices don\u2019t have consequences, even after a year or five years ago.\u201d They <em>all<\/em> have consequences. \u201cWhat you sow you will, therefore, reap.\u201d And so, yes; I mean, you know, what we tell couples now is: \u201cEvery choice you make is going to come into your marriage. So, you better be <em>vigilant<\/em> about what you are doing,\u201d since we experienced it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If you were sitting down with a couple today\u2014Dave and Ann Wilson about to get married\u2014and in the premarital counseling they share with one another: \u201cHere\u2019s our past,\u201d and they forgive each other and go, \u201cYou know, we understand and we\u2019re sad; but we forgive each other.\u201d They are naively thinking, \u201cWe don\u2019t have any issues.\u201d What would you say to them before they get married to help prepare them for what\u2019s coming?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, I would first say this: \u201cYou know, one of the amazing things that happened for us, when we did go to the <em>FamilyLife Weekend to Remember<\/em>, as an engaged couple, we <em>heard<\/em> God\u2019s blueprint for marriage,\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014we really did. We <em>really<\/em> didn\u2019t understand the depth of how that would end up applying to our marriage; but we heard it, and we had the manual. One of the things that changed our life, because we had this baggage\u2014again, we didn\u2019t understand the depth of that and what it would mean. Now, we\u2019re in the middle of it, sort of opening those bags and going: \u201cOh my gosh! You got to be kidding me. That\u2019s what you brought in?\u201d and \u201cThat\u2019s what you brought in? How do you deal with this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the pillars of that weekend is forgiveness. It really became an issue for us\u2014I mean, obviously, 36 years later, we\u2019re looking back on it\u2014we took that baggage together\u2014talked about it \/ sort of pulled out each piece and said, \u201cThis is what I\u2019ve done, and this is who I am.\u201d We laid it at the foot of the cross and Jesus\u2014and took our marriage as well. In a lot of ways, the greatest thing that ever happened to us\u2014like we realized: \u201cWe will never make it in this marriage as two humans trying to do this on our own.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe had to take it to the <em>cross<\/em> and say, \u201cJesus,\u201d\u2014we knew <em>now<\/em>\u2014\u201cwe need You <em>desperately<\/em>.\u201d And then, with Christ, now, at the center, Christ can do a miracle. Part of it was forgiving one another and taking even our sexual past to the cross, together, and asking His forgiveness\u2014which we are forgiven for and then applying that to one another. That wasn\u2019t easy, but that\u2019s what we did over time. God really has used it to do a miracle in us and, now, through us to others who make the same mistakes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting\u2014even though that time was super hard, it was also a time that made us go to the cross and get on our knees; because I really feel like\u2014in my marriage, on and off, I\u2019ve tried to find my fulfillment and joy through Dave at times, where he had become my idol. I see that in a lot of women and young women, especially, who try to find their identity from a man or from a husband. Jesus is saying: \u201cI\u2019ve made you, and you can find your identity through Me. You\u2019ll find your life purpose through Me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Going to the cross, I had to say: \u201cGod, You loved me. You brought us together in covenant; so You have a plan for us. Help me to see Dave as You see him.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What you\u2019re saying reminds me of Proverbs, Chapter 24, verses 3 and 4\u2014it says, \u201cBy wisdom a house is built.\u201d Wisdom is skill \/ godly skill in everyday living. How do you get that? You don\u2019t get it from the world. You get it from the book that contains God\u2019s wisdom\u2014that\u2019s the Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou keep talking about going to the cross. You mentioned some key words I want to make sure our listeners hear. One was surrender \/one was a prayer that cries out: \u201cGod, would You meet us in our brokenness and help us bring healing to our lives, and our marriage, and one another?\u201d\u00a0 As you do that over a lifetime, it doesn\u2019t mean that you end up with a perfect marriage; but it does mean that the rest of this passage in Proverbs 24 is fulfilled\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it says: \u201cBy wisdom a house is built and by understanding it is established. By knowledge the rooms are filled with all precious and pleasant riches.\u201d Those pleasant riches are peace; I mean, there really can be peace that occurs after you\u2019ve had conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Conflict is normal\u2014you\u2019re not abnormal if you fight. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re being <em>abnormal<\/em> if you don\u2019t resolve it, because God calls us to forgive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In the observation I\u2019m making, as I hear you tell your story, is\u2014you pray a prayer: \u201cLord, we want a marriage that will point others to You. We want it not to be just good but great.\u201d And God says, \u201cThis will involve a furnace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s good, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cThis will involve heating things up and skimming the impurity off the top of it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Now, He didn\u2019t tell you that when you prayed that prayer; but six months later, you\u2019re in the furnace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How many couples, in the furnace, go, \u201cThis is not what I signed up for\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, here\u2019s what I thought: \u201cI married the wrong person; because if he was the right person, I wouldn\u2019t be in the furnace.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She thought it\u2014I <em>knew<\/em> it: [Laughter] \u201cI married\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that she married\u2014oh, you knew that <em>you<\/em> had married the wrong\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: \u201c<\/strong>I married the wrong person.\u201d I mean, not kidding\u2014we didn\u2019t share this part of the story\u2014but this is the furnace, and it got so hot I wanted out\u2014not just the marriage \/ out of life. I literally\u2014at three in the morning, six months in\u2014I find myself in \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPhilippians 1, where Paul says: \u201cTo live is Christ, to die is gain.\u201d For some weird reason, those words jump off the page and I\u2019m like: \u201cI agree with him\u2014I\u2019d rather die.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So, I come down at three in the morning. I can\u2019t find Dave\u2014he\u2019s not in bed\u2014and I find him on the couch, with the Bible on his lap. I think: \u201cOh, that\u2019s good! He <em>needs<\/em> that.\u201d [Chuckle] I said, \u201cWhat are you doing?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said, \u201cI\u2019m reading the Word, and this is\u2014what I\u2019m reading is <em>exactly<\/em> what I\u2019m feeling.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, what is it?\u201d\u00a0 He said: \u201cI\u2019m reading what Paul said; and he said: \u201c\u2019To live is Christ, to die is gain,\u2019\u201d and \u201cI would rather be <em>dead<\/em> than to be married to you right now.\u201d He said it out loud!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I probably shouldn\u2019t have said it exactly like that. I said exactly what I was feeling. We now know\u2014but in that moment we didn\u2019t\u2014but we were trying to find life from one another. We said we were going to find it from Christ, but we really weren\u2019t finding it from Christ. We had to re-surrender our marriage \/ our lives. I didn\u2019t want to <em>die<\/em>. I wanted to be married for a long time and have a legacy\u2014that was my dream\u2014to change the legacy of what I was handed; and yet, I\u2019m at this moment, where I\u2019m giving up hope. God brought hope back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I have to wonder how many marriages get to exactly where you are, and what\u2019s on the other side is a <em>great<\/em> marriage that will impact others.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave<\/strong>: Right; they give up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But they give up at the moment that God is working to create a masterpiece. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If you could meet with those couples and say: \u201cIf you only knew what a year from now is going to look like,\u201d \u201c\u2026what five years from now is going to look like,\u201d \u201c\u2026what this hard spot\u2014what these ashes that you\u2019re living in\u2014the beauty that\u2019s going to come from that\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong>: Well, it\u2019s crazy, too; because <em>right<\/em> after that point is when we\u2014this sounds like such a blatant plug for FamilyLife<em> Weekend to Reme<\/em>mber\u2014but we pulled out our manual and said, \u201cWe need to look at what was said at the FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>conference.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: \u201c<\/strong>That stuff we were sneering at, six months ago\u2014we need to look at that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We pulled it out, and we started leading a Bible study\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014with it\u2014with that manual\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> As poor as we\u2019re doing, we\u2019re like, \u201cWe need this <em>so<\/em> desperately.\u201d There were a lot of college students that were married at that time. So, we started teaching the material\u2014that helped, with Jesus, to transform our marriage and to give us tools on how to even resolve conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There are a ton of couples who come to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>\u2014and we see then out there \/ their arms are folded at the beginning of the conference\u2014they meet Jesus Christ \/ they are transformed. He gives them hope and life. Many of them leave the conference exactly like you did\u2014they want to make an impact on somebody else. Instead of wallowing in their hurt, in the ditch, they get out of the ditch together and decide to impact other people, who are struggling in their own marriages; because nobody does this thing perfectly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you invited other people into your home and started teaching it. In the process, what happened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> God transformed <em>us<\/em>. I don\u2019t even know what happened with the other couples. [Laughter] I mean, actually, I do. It\u2019s really interesting\u2014there\u2019s a couple in our church in Detroit that was in that Bible study \/ our small group with marriage material, 26 years ago.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Did you tell them, as you started the Bible study, the ditch that you were in?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; you know us. We can\u2019t hide anything\u2014we\u2019re pretty raw. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we\u2019re like: \u201cWe\u2019re struggling \/ we don\u2019t know how to get out. We just know one thing\u2014Jesus is the answer. This material is God\u2019s game plan for marriage. We went through it, and we\u2019re going to teach it to you. We\u2019re going to learn it with you as we teach it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, yes; these were all college athletes in their first year of marriage\u2014we\u2019re in our first year of marriage. We all grew together. God used His Word and His furnace to purify us\u2014to literally change us. The prayer we prayed on our honeymoon night \/ on our wedding night: \u201cGod give us a great marriage that can bless the world,\u201d\u2014God started doing that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And we already know, because we\u2019ve shared there have been other points\u2014like other re-surrender points\u2014you talk about one in <em>The<\/em> <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> that happened, ten years in. I want to make sure listeners understand that time in God\u2019s Word re-centered and redirected you. Year two was better than year one?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It was awesome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There were still valleys \/ still some furnace ahead.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But there was a turnaround that made a difference\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014so when you hit the next valley or the next furnace, it\u2019s not like: \u201cWe\u2019ve never been here before.\u201d You\u2019re like:\u201dOh, we\u2019re back here. We know where we are, and we know how to get out of here\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I think that\u2019s true. It\u2019s interesting how we\u2019re continually transitioning in our marriages. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Dave and I\u2014we were married six years before we had kids. So, then, we have kids\u2014and oh, gosh\u2014this is another transition, because it puts <em>weight<\/em> on the marriage relationship itself. So we hit another one of those bumps at year ten. It was a <em>big<\/em> <em>bump<\/em>\u2014it might have been a mountain\u2014for us to get over.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019ll just share with our listeners\u2014if you have not seen the year-ten story, as Dave and Ann share it, it\u2019s on our website at <em>FamilyLifeToday.com<\/em>. You can watch the video of them getting to the point where Ann looks Dave in the eye, on their anniversary night\u2014such a master of timing, Ann\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m not really very nice; am I? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014on their tenth anniversary night, after Dave had planned an elaborate date\u2014she says, \u201cI\u2019ve lost my feelings for you,\u201d and how God met them in that moment and brought them to where they are today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, go to our website at FamilyLifeToday.com and you can watch the story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know what I think people are? I think they are really\u2014not only fascinated by\u2014but they <em>yearn<\/em> to hear someone who is <em>real<\/em> and authentic. I think that\u2019s a mark of your lives and your ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve mentioned it several times as we\u2019ve chatted here\u2014you don\u2019t mind telling people you\u2019re still in process. We all are. That\u2019s what a listener needs to understand. It doesn\u2019t matter how deep the ditch is. You need to know that the same God, who raised Jesus Christ from the dead\u2014I mean, that\u2019s pretty hopeless \/ death\u2014He raises human beings and marriages out of the ditch. He will meet you; He is alive; He has defeated death. Because he has defeated death, He can meet you at your point of despair and give you hope, give you peace, [and] give you even a <em>great<\/em> marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWould you guys say today that you have a great marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We have a great marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2014I am, absolutely\u201436 years in\u2014blown away by our marriage. I\u2019m more in love \/ we\u2019re more in love, year 36, than year 1. If you had told me that on our wedding day, \u201cYou\u2019ll be more in love,\u201d I would have said, \u201cI could never love her more than I do this day. This is the epitome of\u2026\u201d And here we are\u2014it\u2019s a richer\/deeper\u2014obviously, more mature love. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would also say\u2014as I say I\u2019m more in love and happier than I ever thought I\u2019d be\u2014it\u2019s all because of Jesus. It <em>really<\/em> is because of Him being the foundation. Part of that, for us, is: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIf you don\u2019t reveal your weakness and your brokenness, you\u2019ll never be able to tell the story or experience the strength, like Paul said, \u2018When I\u2019m weak, then I\u2019m strong.\u2019 He meets you in that brokenness to point to the victory that you just talked about\u2014 the miraculous resurrection power of God is not real until you\u2019re able to honestly admit, \u2018I\u2019m empty and broken.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>If you follow Christ, you\u2019re going to have wounds \/ you\u2019re going to have scars, which is the result of <em>healing<\/em> from a wound. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Marriage, I think, is a place where there are a lot of wounds; and yes, there are a lot of scars, but there is hope at the end. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s the thing folks say to us when they attend a <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>marriage getaway. More often than not, as they walk away from the getaway, they say, \u201cWe\u2019re leaving here today with a fresh sense of hope about our marriage.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That fresh sense of hope is the fuel that can get them through the furnace, and get them on the other side of the furnace, and get them to the place that they wanted to be on their wedding day. That is actually possible, as you guys have said\u2014it\u2019s achievable.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just want to, again, remind our listeners\u2014if you have never been to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway\u2014this fall, you ought to go. We\u2019re going to be in dozens of cities all across the country this fall. It\u2019s a great two-and-a-half getaway for couples, where you can focus on one another\u2014you\u2019ll laugh; you\u2019ll learn; you\u2019ll spend some time, just the two of you, enjoying the weekend together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you register this week, you can save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. Take advantage of the special offer we\u2019re making this week. Use the code: \u201cSAVE50\u201d\u2014SAVE5-0\u2014when you register, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and just mention the code when you call. If you have any questions about the getaway, again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com or call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make sure you get in touch with us before the end of the week so you can take advantage of this special offer we\u2019re making and save 50 percent of the regular registration. Marriage takes \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t100 percent, but the getaway only takes 50 percent right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, get in touch with us and plan to join us at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear more of the details of your tenth wedding anniversary, which did not go as Dave\u2014as you were hoping or as you had planned. But God showed up in the middle of it and something pretty profound happened. We\u2019ll hear the story tomorrow. I Hope our listeners can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; A Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:34"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.24M"],"filesize_raw":["26461121"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304676.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304676.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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and Ann Wilson recall their earliest years of marriage and the problems they couldn't resolve. Hear how God gave their hearts a makeover and transformed their shaky marriage.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-09-11.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It wasn\u2019t until after Dave and Ann Wilson had said, \u201cI do,\u201d to one another that they both began to realize there were issues they were going to have to figure out how to deal with in their new marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Some of our baggage, to be truthful, was things that we had done, sexually, with other people. I felt like: \u201cAm I good enough? Do I compare?\u201d I didn\u2019t trust him\u2014not because he had done anything in our marriage that was untrustworthy\u2014but I wondered if his past would catch up with who he was now. I was incredibly insecure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, September 11<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey; and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 When you bring baggage into a marriage relationship and its affecting you marriage today, what do you do about that? We\u2019ll hear from Dave and Ann Wilson today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Monday edition. Our regular listeners are going to recognize our guests today. In fact, folks who have been through <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> video series will recognize our guests. If you\u2019ve been on any of the last two or three <em>Love Like You Mean It Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>cruises, you\u2019ll recognize our guests today. If you\u2019ve been to one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> getaways, you\u2019re going to know our guests; because this couple has been a part of all that we\u2019re doing, here, at FamilyLife for a couple of decades now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dave and Ann Wilson join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Dave\/Ann\u2014welcome back to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We are excited to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So excited to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019ll just mention, for those who don\u2019t know Dave and Ann, Dave is one of the pastors at Kensington Community Church in the Detroit area \/ chaplain for the Detroit Lions. You\u2019ve been in Kensington for a couple of decades now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2: 00 <\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey are parents to three sons and grandparents to two grandchildren as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAny of our listeners, who have gone through <em>The<\/em> <em>Art of Marriage <\/em>video series, have seen you guys\u2014in Session Two\u2014share the story of your tenth wedding anniversary. We\u2019ve got the clips of that story if our listeners would like to see it, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI also want to mention\u2014and just give me a minute here\u2014this is the last week for <em>FamilyLifeToday <\/em>visitors who may want to attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>marriage getaway to register for the event and save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. This week, we\u2019re extending that offer to our listeners. You can go online to find out dates and locations for upcoming events; or you can call if you have any questions at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you register this week, and you use the code: \u201cSAVE50\u201d\u2014that\u2019s SAVE 5-0\u2014you will automatically qualify for a 50 percent reduction in the regular registration amount and you\u2019ll be signed up for a great weekend getaway this fall. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re going to be in dozens of cities. I\u2019m going to be speaking in Parsippany; but again, we\u2019ll be in locations all across the country. We\u2019d love to have you join us for a getaway. Sign up this week to save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. Whether you\u2019ve been married for two month or for four decades, this is a <em>great<\/em> getaway for husbands and wives to refocus on your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was thinking about couples, who are in the early years of their marriage\u2014you guys, I\u2019ve heard you share before. You struggled in those early months of your marriage; didn\u2019t you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Within six months, I did not even like Dave. I really, honestly\u2014I thought, \u201cI\u2019ve made the <em>worst<\/em> decision of my life by marrying him.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Now wait. You\u2019ve never said it <em>that<\/em> blatant before\u2014seriously! [Laughter] \u201c\u2026the <em>worst<\/em>\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You say in <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> that before you married Dave, this was kind of the dream of your life to marry Dave Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He was my dream \/ he was the <em>dream<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t like this \u201cwas\u201d word. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, I should\u2014and he still is. But honestly, we were believers; we loved Jesus. I knew that Dave loved Jesus. We loved each other. We thought: \u201cHow hard can it be to be married? We loved each other \/ we loved Jesus. It\u2019s going to all happen, and it will be great.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, six months from the pinnacle day of your life\u2014marrying the man of your dreams\u2014to going, \u201cI made a huge mistake,\u201d\u2014what happened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think what happened is we weren\u2019t prepared, even though we went to a <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>marriage conference. We really thought, \u201cOh, this is such good material for these <em>other<\/em> needy people.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We actually sat at that conference, two weeks before our wedding, and snickered throughout the conference, like,\u201d How in the world do these people need to write all these notes down?\u201d I mean, it was great conference \/ great content.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014but: \u201cHow do they not know?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We just thought, \u201cIt will not apply to us.\u201d In an arrogant sort of way, we thought: \u201cWe are better than all these people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIt will be easy.\u201d I\u2019m not kidding\u2014we\u2019re in full time ministry as well \/ we go into full time ministry. We\u2019re ministering to athletes at the University of Nebraska\u2014first year of marriage. I bet we fought every night\u2014almost every night. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Over what? What\u2019d you fight about?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You know\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We didn\u2019t like each other. That was a big part of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to be honest \/ to be truly honest, we both had baggage that we brought into the marriage that we weren\u2019t aware of. Some of our baggage, to be truthful, was things we had done, sexually, with other people. I felt this incredible insecurity\u2014I felt like: \u201cAm I good enough? Do I compare?\u201d I worried about him \/ I didn\u2019t trust him\u2014not because he had done anything in our marriage that was untrustworthy\u2014but because of his past, I wondered if his past would catch up with who he was now; and I was incredibly insecure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, I look at this culture today\u2014the hook-up culture\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014I hear the lies that they are being fed by the culture. You know there\u2019s going to be a pay day \/ you know there\u2019s going to be consequences in these lives, because of the choices people make. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYet, there\u2019s some baggage, Dave\u2014that you bring into a marriage that has nothing to do with wrong choices \/ it\u2019s just what life brings you every day. When you were six-years-old, you had a couple of tragedies in your life that dramatically impacted you as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I should have known better that this is going to impact my marriage. I never even thought\u2014how na\u00efve can you be?\u2014to think my dad walks out when I\u2019m seven years old \/ six-and-a-half years old\u2014so I grow up in a single-parent home, which was <em>awesome<\/em>. I mean, my mom was a saint \/ she was <em>unbelievable<\/em>\u2014but I didn\u2019t know my dad\u2014never knew what, really, a husband or a dad look like \/ had no model for that. My little brother dies six months after the divorce\u2014so it\u2019s just my mom and [me] my whole life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, you think: \u201cYou start dating and fall in love, and you\u2019re going to get married.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, that\u2019s sort of going to come into your marriage\u2014<em>never<\/em> even had the thought\u2014how na\u00efve could we be?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And the other thing that happened\u2014we were very different in our styles of conflict. Dave <em>hated<\/em> conflict. So when we would get in a fight, and I would be voicing some of my insecurities or lack of trust, I would voice it and he would walk out of the room. Well, that would just get me <em>hot<\/em>. This one time, he walked out of the room and he said, \u201cI don\u2019t need this!\u201d I yelled back at him, \u201cYou come back here and fight like a man, you chicken!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you walked back in and did what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No; he didn\u2019t walk back in!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; I stepped back in, and I cursed at her and walked out again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And in a sense, I never connected these dots until years later. I did exactly what I thought a man does, and I had seen my dad do. Obviously, I was a withdrawer. When I saw conflict, it was bad\u2014it ended in divorce\u2014so you run from it. So, I married a woman, who is like, \u201cLet\u2019s talk.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, Ann, here\u2019s his background. What kind of a home had you grown up in? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I had a home where we talked about everything. Sometimes, it would get loud; but there was also an understanding that whatever you say matters and: \u201cLet\u2019s talk this out until we resolve it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen Dave left the room, I couldn\u2019t even imagine what was going on\u2014like: \u201cI don\u2019t understand this. Why would you leave?\u201d It felt like: \u201cYou don\u2019t love me. You don\u2019t care about me,\u201d and \u201cYou don\u2019t care about our relationship.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You knew about each other\u2019s family backgrounds before you got married\u2014maybe not at a level of depth that you came to understand\u2014but you knew he was raised by a single mom. There were issues, you said, about your sexual past that you didn\u2019t share with one another, prior to marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We <em>did<\/em> share.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You shared and thought: \u201cOkay; but that was no big deal\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We thought\u2014I said, \u201cI forgive you,\u201d and he forgave me; but we had no idea that that doesn\u2019t get rid of the baggage, necessarily.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; we thought what so many couples think: \u201cIt\u2019s in the past.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIt doesn\u2019t have consequences that live on.\u201d The <em>lie<\/em> that so many believe is: \u201cChoices don\u2019t have consequences, even after a year or five years ago.\u201d They <em>all<\/em> have consequences. \u201cWhat you sow you will, therefore, reap.\u201d And so, yes; I mean, you know, what we tell couples now is: \u201cEvery choice you make is going to come into your marriage. So, you better be <em>vigilant<\/em> about what you are doing,\u201d since we experienced it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If you were sitting down with a couple today\u2014Dave and Ann Wilson about to get married\u2014and in the premarital counseling they share with one another: \u201cHere\u2019s our past,\u201d and they forgive each other and go, \u201cYou know, we understand and we\u2019re sad; but we forgive each other.\u201d They are naively thinking, \u201cWe don\u2019t have any issues.\u201d What would you say to them before they get married to help prepare them for what\u2019s coming?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, I would first say this: \u201cYou know, one of the amazing things that happened for us, when we did go to the <em>FamilyLife Weekend to Remember<\/em>, as an engaged couple, we <em>heard<\/em> God\u2019s blueprint for marriage,\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014we really did. We <em>really<\/em> didn\u2019t understand the depth of how that would end up applying to our marriage; but we heard it, and we had the manual. One of the things that changed our life, because we had this baggage\u2014again, we didn\u2019t understand the depth of that and what it would mean. Now, we\u2019re in the middle of it, sort of opening those bags and going: \u201cOh my gosh! You got to be kidding me. That\u2019s what you brought in?\u201d and \u201cThat\u2019s what you brought in? How do you deal with this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the pillars of that weekend is forgiveness. It really became an issue for us\u2014I mean, obviously, 36 years later, we\u2019re looking back on it\u2014we took that baggage together\u2014talked about it \/ sort of pulled out each piece and said, \u201cThis is what I\u2019ve done, and this is who I am.\u201d We laid it at the foot of the cross and Jesus\u2014and took our marriage as well. In a lot of ways, the greatest thing that ever happened to us\u2014like we realized: \u201cWe will never make it in this marriage as two humans trying to do this on our own.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe had to take it to the <em>cross<\/em> and say, \u201cJesus,\u201d\u2014we knew <em>now<\/em>\u2014\u201cwe need You <em>desperately<\/em>.\u201d And then, with Christ, now, at the center, Christ can do a miracle. Part of it was forgiving one another and taking even our sexual past to the cross, together, and asking His forgiveness\u2014which we are forgiven for and then applying that to one another. That wasn\u2019t easy, but that\u2019s what we did over time. God really has used it to do a miracle in us and, now, through us to others who make the same mistakes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting\u2014even though that time was super hard, it was also a time that made us go to the cross and get on our knees; because I really feel like\u2014in my marriage, on and off, I\u2019ve tried to find my fulfillment and joy through Dave at times, where he had become my idol. I see that in a lot of women and young women, especially, who try to find their identity from a man or from a husband. Jesus is saying: \u201cI\u2019ve made you, and you can find your identity through Me. You\u2019ll find your life purpose through Me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Going to the cross, I had to say: \u201cGod, You loved me. You brought us together in covenant; so You have a plan for us. Help me to see Dave as You see him.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What you\u2019re saying reminds me of Proverbs, Chapter 24, verses 3 and 4\u2014it says, \u201cBy wisdom a house is built.\u201d Wisdom is skill \/ godly skill in everyday living. How do you get that? You don\u2019t get it from the world. You get it from the book that contains God\u2019s wisdom\u2014that\u2019s the Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou keep talking about going to the cross. You mentioned some key words I want to make sure our listeners hear. One was surrender \/one was a prayer that cries out: \u201cGod, would You meet us in our brokenness and help us bring healing to our lives, and our marriage, and one another?\u201d\u00a0 As you do that over a lifetime, it doesn\u2019t mean that you end up with a perfect marriage; but it does mean that the rest of this passage in Proverbs 24 is fulfilled\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it says: \u201cBy wisdom a house is built and by understanding it is established. By knowledge the rooms are filled with all precious and pleasant riches.\u201d Those pleasant riches are peace; I mean, there really can be peace that occurs after you\u2019ve had conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Conflict is normal\u2014you\u2019re not abnormal if you fight. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re being <em>abnormal<\/em> if you don\u2019t resolve it, because God calls us to forgive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In the observation I\u2019m making, as I hear you tell your story, is\u2014you pray a prayer: \u201cLord, we want a marriage that will point others to You. We want it not to be just good but great.\u201d And God says, \u201cThis will involve a furnace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s good, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cThis will involve heating things up and skimming the impurity off the top of it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Now, He didn\u2019t tell you that when you prayed that prayer; but six months later, you\u2019re in the furnace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How many couples, in the furnace, go, \u201cThis is not what I signed up for\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, here\u2019s what I thought: \u201cI married the wrong person; because if he was the right person, I wouldn\u2019t be in the furnace.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She thought it\u2014I <em>knew<\/em> it: [Laughter] \u201cI married\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that she married\u2014oh, you knew that <em>you<\/em> had married the wrong\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: \u201c<\/strong>I married the wrong person.\u201d I mean, not kidding\u2014we didn\u2019t share this part of the story\u2014but this is the furnace, and it got so hot I wanted out\u2014not just the marriage \/ out of life. I literally\u2014at three in the morning, six months in\u2014I find myself in \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPhilippians 1, where Paul says: \u201cTo live is Christ, to die is gain.\u201d For some weird reason, those words jump off the page and I\u2019m like: \u201cI agree with him\u2014I\u2019d rather die.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So, I come down at three in the morning. I can\u2019t find Dave\u2014he\u2019s not in bed\u2014and I find him on the couch, with the Bible on his lap. I think: \u201cOh, that\u2019s good! He <em>needs<\/em> that.\u201d [Chuckle] I said, \u201cWhat are you doing?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said, \u201cI\u2019m reading the Word, and this is\u2014what I\u2019m reading is <em>exactly<\/em> what I\u2019m feeling.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, what is it?\u201d\u00a0 He said: \u201cI\u2019m reading what Paul said; and he said: \u201c\u2019To live is Christ, to die is gain,\u2019\u201d and \u201cI would rather be <em>dead<\/em> than to be married to you right now.\u201d He said it out loud!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I probably shouldn\u2019t have said it exactly like that. I said exactly what I was feeling. We now know\u2014but in that moment we didn\u2019t\u2014but we were trying to find life from one another. We said we were going to find it from Christ, but we really weren\u2019t finding it from Christ. We had to re-surrender our marriage \/ our lives. I didn\u2019t want to <em>die<\/em>. I wanted to be married for a long time and have a legacy\u2014that was my dream\u2014to change the legacy of what I was handed; and yet, I\u2019m at this moment, where I\u2019m giving up hope. God brought hope back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I have to wonder how many marriages get to exactly where you are, and what\u2019s on the other side is a <em>great<\/em> marriage that will impact others.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave<\/strong>: Right; they give up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But they give up at the moment that God is working to create a masterpiece. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If you could meet with those couples and say: \u201cIf you only knew what a year from now is going to look like,\u201d \u201c\u2026what five years from now is going to look like,\u201d \u201c\u2026what this hard spot\u2014what these ashes that you\u2019re living in\u2014the beauty that\u2019s going to come from that\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong>: Well, it\u2019s crazy, too; because <em>right<\/em> after that point is when we\u2014this sounds like such a blatant plug for FamilyLife<em> Weekend to Reme<\/em>mber\u2014but we pulled out our manual and said, \u201cWe need to look at what was said at the FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>conference.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: \u201c<\/strong>That stuff we were sneering at, six months ago\u2014we need to look at that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We pulled it out, and we started leading a Bible study\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014with it\u2014with that manual\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> As poor as we\u2019re doing, we\u2019re like, \u201cWe need this <em>so<\/em> desperately.\u201d There were a lot of college students that were married at that time. So, we started teaching the material\u2014that helped, with Jesus, to transform our marriage and to give us tools on how to even resolve conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There are a ton of couples who come to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>\u2014and we see then out there \/ their arms are folded at the beginning of the conference\u2014they meet Jesus Christ \/ they are transformed. He gives them hope and life. Many of them leave the conference exactly like you did\u2014they want to make an impact on somebody else. Instead of wallowing in their hurt, in the ditch, they get out of the ditch together and decide to impact other people, who are struggling in their own marriages; because nobody does this thing perfectly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you invited other people into your home and started teaching it. In the process, what happened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> God transformed <em>us<\/em>. I don\u2019t even know what happened with the other couples. [Laughter] I mean, actually, I do. It\u2019s really interesting\u2014there\u2019s a couple in our church in Detroit that was in that Bible study \/ our small group with marriage material, 26 years ago.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Did you tell them, as you started the Bible study, the ditch that you were in?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; you know us. We can\u2019t hide anything\u2014we\u2019re pretty raw. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we\u2019re like: \u201cWe\u2019re struggling \/ we don\u2019t know how to get out. We just know one thing\u2014Jesus is the answer. This material is God\u2019s game plan for marriage. We went through it, and we\u2019re going to teach it to you. We\u2019re going to learn it with you as we teach it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, yes; these were all college athletes in their first year of marriage\u2014we\u2019re in our first year of marriage. We all grew together. God used His Word and His furnace to purify us\u2014to literally change us. The prayer we prayed on our honeymoon night \/ on our wedding night: \u201cGod give us a great marriage that can bless the world,\u201d\u2014God started doing that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And we already know, because we\u2019ve shared there have been other points\u2014like other re-surrender points\u2014you talk about one in <em>The<\/em> <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> that happened, ten years in. I want to make sure listeners understand that time in God\u2019s Word re-centered and redirected you. Year two was better than year one?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It was awesome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There were still valleys \/ still some furnace ahead.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But there was a turnaround that made a difference\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014so when you hit the next valley or the next furnace, it\u2019s not like: \u201cWe\u2019ve never been here before.\u201d You\u2019re like:\u201dOh, we\u2019re back here. We know where we are, and we know how to get out of here\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I think that\u2019s true. It\u2019s interesting how we\u2019re continually transitioning in our marriages. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Dave and I\u2014we were married six years before we had kids. So, then, we have kids\u2014and oh, gosh\u2014this is another transition, because it puts <em>weight<\/em> on the marriage relationship itself. So we hit another one of those bumps at year ten. It was a <em>big<\/em> <em>bump<\/em>\u2014it might have been a mountain\u2014for us to get over.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019ll just share with our listeners\u2014if you have not seen the year-ten story, as Dave and Ann share it, it\u2019s on our website at <em>FamilyLifeToday.com<\/em>. You can watch the video of them getting to the point where Ann looks Dave in the eye, on their anniversary night\u2014such a master of timing, Ann\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m not really very nice; am I? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014on their tenth anniversary night, after Dave had planned an elaborate date\u2014she says, \u201cI\u2019ve lost my feelings for you,\u201d and how God met them in that moment and brought them to where they are today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, go to our website at FamilyLifeToday.com and you can watch the story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know what I think people are? I think they are really\u2014not only fascinated by\u2014but they <em>yearn<\/em> to hear someone who is <em>real<\/em> and authentic. I think that\u2019s a mark of your lives and your ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve mentioned it several times as we\u2019ve chatted here\u2014you don\u2019t mind telling people you\u2019re still in process. We all are. That\u2019s what a listener needs to understand. It doesn\u2019t matter how deep the ditch is. You need to know that the same God, who raised Jesus Christ from the dead\u2014I mean, that\u2019s pretty hopeless \/ death\u2014He raises human beings and marriages out of the ditch. He will meet you; He is alive; He has defeated death. Because he has defeated death, He can meet you at your point of despair and give you hope, give you peace, [and] give you even a <em>great<\/em> marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWould you guys say today that you have a great marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We have a great marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2014I am, absolutely\u201436 years in\u2014blown away by our marriage. I\u2019m more in love \/ we\u2019re more in love, year 36, than year 1. If you had told me that on our wedding day, \u201cYou\u2019ll be more in love,\u201d I would have said, \u201cI could never love her more than I do this day. This is the epitome of\u2026\u201d And here we are\u2014it\u2019s a richer\/deeper\u2014obviously, more mature love. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would also say\u2014as I say I\u2019m more in love and happier than I ever thought I\u2019d be\u2014it\u2019s all because of Jesus. It <em>really<\/em> is because of Him being the foundation. Part of that, for us, is: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIf you don\u2019t reveal your weakness and your brokenness, you\u2019ll never be able to tell the story or experience the strength, like Paul said, \u2018When I\u2019m weak, then I\u2019m strong.\u2019 He meets you in that brokenness to point to the victory that you just talked about\u2014 the miraculous resurrection power of God is not real until you\u2019re able to honestly admit, \u2018I\u2019m empty and broken.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>If you follow Christ, you\u2019re going to have wounds \/ you\u2019re going to have scars, which is the result of <em>healing<\/em> from a wound. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Marriage, I think, is a place where there are a lot of wounds; and yes, there are a lot of scars, but there is hope at the end. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s the thing folks say to us when they attend a <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>marriage getaway. More often than not, as they walk away from the getaway, they say, \u201cWe\u2019re leaving here today with a fresh sense of hope about our marriage.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That fresh sense of hope is the fuel that can get them through the furnace, and get them on the other side of the furnace, and get them to the place that they wanted to be on their wedding day. That is actually possible, as you guys have said\u2014it\u2019s achievable.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just want to, again, remind our listeners\u2014if you have never been to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway\u2014this fall, you ought to go. We\u2019re going to be in dozens of cities all across the country this fall. It\u2019s a great two-and-a-half getaway for couples, where you can focus on one another\u2014you\u2019ll laugh; you\u2019ll learn; you\u2019ll spend some time, just the two of you, enjoying the weekend together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you register this week, you can save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. Take advantage of the special offer we\u2019re making this week. Use the code: \u201cSAVE50\u201d\u2014SAVE5-0\u2014when you register, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and just mention the code when you call. If you have any questions about the getaway, again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com or call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make sure you get in touch with us before the end of the week so you can take advantage of this special offer we\u2019re making and save 50 percent of the regular registration. Marriage takes \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t100 percent, but the getaway only takes 50 percent right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, get in touch with us and plan to join us at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear more of the details of your tenth wedding anniversary, which did not go as Dave\u2014as you were hoping or as you had planned. But God showed up in the middle of it and something pretty profound happened. We\u2019ll hear the story tomorrow. I Hope our listeners can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; A Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/304676","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304676"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304676"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304676"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304676"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=304676"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=304676"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=304676"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}