{"id":304654,"date":"2017-08-25T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-08-25T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/forensic-faith\/"},"modified":"2017-08-25T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-08-25T15:00:00","slug":"forensic-faith","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/forensic-faith\/","title":{"rendered":"Forensic Faith"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Why believe in Christ? J. Warner Wallace, along with his wife, Susie, explain that forensic faith is having good evidence that something is true and believing it.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-08-25.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:09","filesize":"27.61M","filesize_raw":"28950077","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2906,2867,2822],"tags":[4133,4299,4159],"podcast_series":[8229],"cwp_profile":[9468],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304654","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-becoming-a-christian","category-church-involvement","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-coming-to-christ","tag-faith","tag-gospel","podcast_series-cold-case-christianity","cwp_profile-j-warner-and-susie-wallace","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304654\/forensic-faith","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304654\/forensic-faith","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"I11geUuntv\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/forensic-faith\/\">Forensic Faith<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/forensic-faith\/embed\/#?secret=I11geUuntv\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Forensic Faith&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"I11geUuntv\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Why believe in Christ? J. Warner Wallace, along with his wife, Susie, explain that forensic faith is having good evidence that something is true and believing it.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-08-25.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do your children have a rock-solid confidence that what the Bible teaches is really true? Can they support that? Do they have the evidence to back up that belief? Here\u2019s Detective J. Warner Wallace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. Warner:<\/strong> Ask somebody who is a freshman in college, \u201cWhy you walked away from the church?\u201d They will almost always point to about 12-13 years of age as that point in which they first started to have unanswered questions. If most of your students are telling you the reason why they\u2019re no longer in is because they\u2019ve got skepticism which is grounded in intellectual questions, well then maybe it is time for us to start answering their questions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, August 25<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 What can we do as parents to help our children have a confidence that what the Bible says is really true? How can we cultivate that same confidence in our own heart? Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00 <\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. It occurs to me that what we\u2019ve been doing this week as we\u2019ve been talking about the evidence to support our faith\u2014in the last decade or so, that\u2019s kind of fallen out of favor. I\u2019m aware of the fact that people said, \u201cYou know you never talk anybody into Christianity.\u201d You don\u2019t just present the facts and then they go, \u201cOkay I\u2019m now convinced.\u201d There\u2019s been kind of a movement away from defending the reality of the faith to the point where I\u2019m wondering if people actually have a basis for what they believe anymore\u2014or if they\u2019re just accepting it because they\u2019ve heard it repeated over and over again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Bob, I think one of the reasons why we\u2019re watching a generation of young people leave the church on graduation from high school or from college\u2014and leaving not coming back to their faith is this very reason. I don\u2019t think they are grounded. They don\u2019t have the evidence, as Josh McDowell said, that demanded a verdict. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014Or as our guest puts it. He\u2019s written a book called <em>Cold-Case Christianity<\/em> and it\u2019s subtitle\u2014I haven\u2019t used this subtitle here this week as I\u2019ve talked about it\u2014<em>A Homicide Detective Investigates the Claims of the Gospels<\/em>. J. Warner Wallace and his wife, Susie, join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Susie, Jim welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong> Thank you so much for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong> We are honored.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I want you to comment on what Bob mentioned at the beginning of the broadcast here\u2014about the lack of interest in apologetics. Do you see a return to that with the writing of your book and some others that are out there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. Warner:<\/strong> Oh, I think that there\u2019s been a renaissance in Christian apologetics that I can\u2019t claim any brilliant contribution to me. You see people like William Lane Craig, Josh McDowell\u2014<em>Evidence Demands a Verdict<\/em>. It\u2019s old, right? He\u2019s releasing a new one this year as a matter of fact because there is basically a renewal of interest\u2014and why so you think that\u2019s happening? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhy would you think now\u2014that we\u2019re seeing movies like God\u2019s Not Dead\u2014the first movie\u2014which really surpassed what the expectations were of the movie producers there. They think they\u2019ve touched a nerve\u2014that a lot of us in the church feel\u2014which is that we see an exodus from the church of young people that\u2019s occurring usually in those years between 17\u2014and say 25\u2014in university\u2014but to be honest everyone is polled and I collect these polls. I\u2019ve been collecting them for years as a youth pastor and also as a writer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ll see that when they\u2019ve asked somebody who is a freshman in college \u201cWhy you walked away from the church?\u201d They will almost always point to about 12-13 years of age as that point in which they first started to have unanswered questions that they felt really were not satisfactorily answered. The culture around them has got answers\u2014they\u2019re not the Christian answer\u2014but they seem to be better supported at times and certainly are more influential from a cultural perspective. That\u2019s why I think we see this problem. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the way to respond? If most of your students are telling you the reason why they\u2019re no longer in is because they\u2019ve got skepticism\u2014which is grounded in intellectual questions\u2014well then\u2014maybe it\u2019s time for us to start answering their questions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Susie, you and Jim had four children. You came to faith after you\u2019d had and started your family. Do you remember when you started teaching your kids that their faith had a basis and that your new-found commitment to Jesus Christ had an application to their lives?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong> Yes\u2014well actually I think I was learning right along with them. Our oldest was probably around first to third grade\u2014was when we really started reading the Bible\u2014investigating and learning right along with him. We started teaching Sunday school\u2014volunteering at church\u2014we just jumped in with both feet. So we were just learning with them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I want to say there is nothing wrong with that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. Warner:<\/strong> Oh, absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong> No\u2014and I would encourage all parents. I think I had a lot of questions as a child. There really wasn\u2019t anybody to answer those questions\u2014you just start to accept whatever you\u2019re learning\u2014usually at a secular school.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut even in Christian schools sometimes there isn\u2019t a strong enough evidence and basis that this is true\u2014and it\u2019s okay to ask questions. Jesus liked people to ask questions. He didn\u2019t belittle them or make them feel like they were silly to ask questions\u2014He gave them evidence\u2014He was very kind and compassionate about that. That was okay\u2014that\u2019s how we\u2019re made\u2014we are questioning\u2014we\u2019re curious\u2014we don\u2019t have all the answers. He does have them for us. We just need to go to Him\u2014go to the Scripture\u2014investigate it and find it out for ourselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It\u2019s okay to have a doubt.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong> Oh\u2014absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It\u2019s okay for your kids to express those doubts to you. As a parent\u2014it\u2019s okay for you to have some of those doubts as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. Warner:<\/strong> I think that part of the problem here is this, \u201cWhy would I want to trust that the answers could be found in Scripture.\u201d I was such a doubter to begin with; right? I still carry that. I recognize that most of the students I\u2019m working with today\u2014I have to do more than say, \u201cWell the answer is in Scripture.\u201d I need to offer why that answer in Scripture is authoritative. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhy do I think that <em>really is<\/em> the Word of God? On the basis of <em>what<\/em> do I trust the Scripture to begin with? That\u2019s where their real doubts are. The real doubts are going to come out of issues about why we can trust that the Bible is true\u2014why we can trust that it\u2019s been handed down to us accurately over time. We don\u2019t even have manuscripts that agree with one another. Yet you think you know what the original contained. This is an argument that has been leveled against Christianity for years now\u2014made popular by Bart Ehrman\u2014that I think is very powerful in the culture and very powerful with the young people. We have to be able to answer that kind of objection. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember leading a group to the University of California at Berkeley with Susie. We had probably about 30 high schoolers in that particular group. The first day we sat down we invited atheists to come in to talk to our kids to tell us why they believed atheism was true. Now we had trained for eight weeks before we went so our kids were well prepared to ask good questions and they were grounded in what they believed as Christians. But the first guy got up and he said this\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said, \u201cStudents, let me run this deity by you\u2014you tell me who you think it is. Born of a virgin, in a manger\u2014attended by angels\u2014announced by a star\u2014visited by a wise man\u2014had 12 disciples\u2014called the way the truth the life\u2014died to save the world\u2014rose again in three days. His followers for years afterwards celebrated a Lord\u2019s supper every Sunday in which they drank his blood and ate his body\u2014they called it the Lord\u2019s Supper. Who am I describing here?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow most of our kids stayed silent but one\u2014who was not as well prepared as the others, unfortunately, raised her hand and said it was Jesus. Doesn\u2019t that sound like Jesus? He said, \u201cNo; no. That\u2019s not Jesus, that\u2019s Mithras.\u201d That\u2019s a Persian deity about 400 years prior to Jesus. In fact, it\u2019s that deity that the Jesus story was borrowed from. And for that girl who had never heard that objection before\u2014she was shaken that night. We\u2019re on a four or five-day trip to Berkley. She came to us that night, \u201cI\u2019m not even sure I can pray tonight. I\u2019m not even sure there is a god to pray to.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe had to kind of help walk through that objection. I\u2019ll just tell you up front that those claims I just offered are not actually even true about Mithras\u2014the Persian deity of Mithras that occurred 400 years before Jesus\u2014but unless you had done your homework, you wouldn\u2019t know that. And trust me\u2014what has happened with Gen Z\u2014this young generation of kids that now about the oldest is about 18 or 19 years old\u2014they have accepted what they find on the internet without much distinction about authority. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor example\u2014if someone\u2019s got a nice-looking website that seems authoritative\u2014that is given as much weight in the mind of some of these kids who read it as the sight that actually has an authoritative background\u2014that actually has footnotes\u2014that\u2019s actually grounded in something evidential. In other words\u2014they\u2019ve got access to all kinds of information\u2014and that claim about Mithras is all over the internet. The question is, \u201cAre you discerning enough to know if that is actually true?\u201d A generation has been raised with the internet. They\u2019ve got access to all of it\u2014but they\u2019ve got no way to discern which sites are accurately telling them the truth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLook, I don\u2019t know if you guys have noticed this\u2014I\u2019m sure you have. We are in a collision right now between two values: religious liberty\u2014on the one hand\u2014but the rights of individuals to be allegedly treated fairly\u2014on the other. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey made a case on the other side that these rights are established in a way we can demonstrate evidentially\u2014your faith is just a matter of opinion. So, when every time a matter of opinion collides with something we can demonstrate evidentially\u2014your opinions are usually going to fold. If Christianity is simply an opinion and it cannot be demonstrated evidentially, be prepared to surrender to it\u2014to surrender to Christianity rather\u2014at every turn when it comes head to head with something the culture says can be demonstrated evidentially.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I want to ask you about that whole area because one of the things that has become almost second nature to us in this culture is that you have the church\u2014and you have the school. The school is where you get facts and evidence and truth. Church is where you get religion and faith and belief. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose two should kind of be separated. If you want to believe what you want to believe over here on the church side, that\u2019s all fine. But the stuff that we really <em>know<\/em> is true is what we learn in the school side. Don\u2019t we need to understand that there are levels of faith involved in all kinds of thinking\u2014even secular thinking?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. Warner:<\/strong> Yes. I think you cut it down to what we\u2019ve accepted as a church for a definition for faith. I kind of pitch it this way: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first step is what I would call an <em>unreasonable faith<\/em>. An unreasonable belief\u2014for example\u2014is some belief that you hold even though there\u2019s evidence to the contrary. You might think you get warts from frogs. We have good evidence that suggests\u2014that tells us\u2014you don\u2019t get warts from frogs. We know where warts come from\u2014but you might still hold onto that belief\u2014but if you did it\u2019s an unreasonable belief. That is not the Christian view of faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow the second step is <em>blind faith<\/em>. A faith that you hold which might be true\u2014but you cannot demonstrate why it\u2019s true evidentially\u2014you aren\u2019t even aware of the evidence. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2014for example\u2014believe my dad, James Wallace, is my father but I\u2019ve never had a paternity test to prove he\u2019s my father. I could be right. I could be wrong. But if I hold to a truth it\u2019s\u2014I\u2019m holding it really blindly\u2014I don\u2019t have any evidence to demonstrate that it is true\u2014that he\u2019s my biological father. I would call that a blind faith. It might be a fact that Christianity is true, but if I don\u2019t understand what the evidence is that points to it,I\u2019m holding that belief without evidence. I might be in the right place\u2014I might be in the wrong place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe third kind is what I call a <em>forensic faith<\/em>. It\u2019s that you hold to a truth claim for which there is good evidence although\u2014like every case\u2014there isn\u2019t all the evidence you might hope for. In every murder I\u2019ve ever worked, we\u2019ve had a good case but I can\u2019t answer every question for the juror. As a matter of fact, I ask the juror up front before we impanel them, \u201cDo you have to have every question answered?\u201d \u201cYes, I think so.\u201d \u201cWell then you\u2019re excused\u201d because there is no way you\u2019re going to get every question answered in a jury trial\u2014we can\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNo worldview can answer <em>every single question<\/em> definitively\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but we have good evidence that suggests that this is the most reasonable inference about reality, period. We hold our faith even though we can\u2019t answer these questions forensically on the basis of evidence. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you think about the Christian worldview\u2014that\u2019s exactly how Jesus positions it; right? He says in John, \u201cIf you don\u2019t believe the words I\u2019m telling you at least believe in the evidence of these miracles I\u2019ve worked in front of you.\u201d When John the Baptist has doubts, he sends his believers\u2014his disciples rather\u2014to Jesus. John\u2019s in prison. He wants to know, \u201cAre you the one?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus could have said a lot of things. He could have said, \u201cWell wait a minute\u2014you should just have faith. You used to trust.\u201d He says, \u201cHang on a second.\u201d He works three miracles in front of John\u2019s disciples. He says, \u201cGo back and tell John what you just saw.\u201d That\u2019s a <em>very<\/em> evidential approach to faith. He\u2019s not saying, \u201cBelieve this blindly.\u201d He\u2019s not saying, \u201cBelieve this with\u2014although there is evidence to the contrary.\u201d He\u2019s saying, \u201cBelieve this because I\u2019ve already demonstrated to you that it\u2019s true.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe spends 40 days in Acts 1 with the disciples after the resurrection. Really? The resurrection\u2019s not enough? Apparently! He needs to spend 40 more days showing many convincing proofs\u2014it says in the text. <em>That\u2019s<\/em> a commitment to evidence. So, our faith is not grounded blindly\u2014or grounded unreasonably\u2014it\u2019s grounded in evidence. Now if we all had <em>that<\/em> approach, we would have to know what the evidence is; wouldn\u2019t we?\u2014before we could ever even say we have faith\u2014because we know from a Christian perspective faith is tied to the evidence. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s where I think we drop the ball with our kids\u2014they do see this dichotomy you are mentioning, Bob. This idea that there\u2019s facts at school and there are hopes in church. If that\u2019s the case, then you\u2019re going to see\u2014we\u2019re going to surrender to what\u2019s being taught in school.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What was the first major area of your life that changed when you went all in after your\u2014well I guess weighing the evidence in your life, being a skeptic of sorts\u2014being a detective\u2014looking for forensic evidence. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat was the biggest change in your life? And Susie I want you to answer that too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. Warner:<\/strong> I think, for me a lot of it was just certain personal behaviors\u2014that my skepticism as a police officer had given me warrant to exercise. You know what I mean? I had seen certain things and I had adopted certain language. It wasn\u2019t like I had to work that hard at it\u2014I just caught myself, \u201cOoh, ooh, ooh. That doesn\u2019t seem to be consistent anymore with my identity in Christ.\u201d So it just kind of\u2014it started to strip away.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember my partners\u2014who I had been a pagan in front of for years, and we had made fun of Christians for years\u2014one of them said, \u201cI know you Jim. You\u2019ve been an excellent extreme atheist. Now I bet you\u2019ll end up as a pastor someday.\u201d I had to laugh because that\u2019s exactly what happened! That extreme nature in me is going to swing one direction or the other\u2014and once I discovered what\u2019s true it\u2019s going to swing in that direction. So, for me, the biggest change\u2014I think\u2014was just in character issues that were not consistent with being a Christ follower.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Susie, what about you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong> I think, for me was kind of more of a personal awareness about everything. You\u2019re just rethinking everything you\u2019re doing. What are your real life goals\u2014being a mom? How am I teaching and where am I leading my children? For me I think it was more of inside\u2014noticing I want to be more this way. I wanted to be a sponge and read everything I could\u2014get involved in Bible studies\u2014teaching Sunday school. Just the doing and the learning was just trying to refine who I was and who God made me to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, I was never quite matching up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it can be a burden for a lot of moms. You want to be this perfect mom. You want to have the eloquent words each time there is a situation. You want to sound like the people on the radio who are telling you how\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> To sound like Dennis Rainey, right? That\u2019s what you\u2019re thinking. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Barbara Rainey; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong> But that\u2019s just all such a good thing because that\u2019s what we\u2019re trying to do with Christ\u2014we\u2019re trying to follow and emulate Him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well and then you\u2019ve heard about grace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And when you learn about grace you go, \u201cAh.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong> Yes. You\u2019re very thankful for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. Warner:<\/strong> That is one thing I think I overlooked when I talked to you about this\u2014I hadn\u2019t thought about in advance\u2014that\u2019s one thing that struck me right away\u2014I think I became much more gracious. I was struck by that passage where Jesus is visiting Simon; right? The woman comes to his feet\u2014and is adoring Jesus. Simon\u2019s kind of looking, \u201cIf He knew who that woman was, He wouldn\u2019t even let her touch Him.\u201d Jesus says, \u201cSimon, when I came here you didn\u2019t even take off My sandals. This woman understands how much she\u2019s been forgiven for.\u201d It dawned on me that your ability to forgive others is proportionate to your sense of having been forgiven for something. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe people who are the least forgiving are people who don\u2019t think they have anything for which they need to be forgiven. Once I became a Christian, I realized who I really was\u2014and I think I was more forgiving as a result. Much more patient with suspects\u2014much more patient with\u2014just people I had met in custody because I knew\u2014but for the grace of God\u2014that could have been me! That I was that guy. The guy who has just done this horrific thing\u2014that was me too. That\u2019s all of us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRemember, when you\u2019re working cold cases, you aren\u2019t working serial killers\u2014serial killers are different. When you work a serial killer, you take him to jail, knock on a neighbor\u2019s door, say \u201cI\u2019m taking your neighbor to jail. He killed 15 people last five years.\u201d That neighbor\u2019s probably going to say, \u201cI\u2019m so glad you got here. That guy\u2019s freakish. He\u2019s got all kind of noise in the middle of the night\u2014bad smells coming out of his house\u2014and all kinds of things. I\u2019m glad he\u2019s going to jail.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you arrest a cold case killer, you say \u201cI\u2019m taking this guy to jail\u2014your neighbor\u2014for a murder he did 35 years ago.\u201d The neighbor typically says something like \u201cNo way. That guy\u2019s been my neighbor for 35 years.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHe\u2019s a deacon at our church. There\u2019s no way. I know that guy. He\u2019s not capable of that.\u201d What\u2019s the difference is that they don\u2019t recognize this Christian anthropology; right\u2014this idea that we are deeply fallen. That <em>all<\/em> of us are capable\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. Warner:<\/strong> \u2014of doing something like that. I think when I became a Christian, I realized that\u2014I sensed my own fallenness and how gracious God had been with me. It caused me to say, \u201cYou can\u2019t extend that to somebody else? Really?\u201d And it helped me to be\u2014I think\u2014a more forgiving person\u2014even in our conversations. I think our interactions as a couple\u2014would you agree\u2014are different?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong> I would definitely agree. I think before I became a Christian, I thought, \u201cWell I\u2019m right about this and I\u2019m going to stand my ground.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019re telling a detective that? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong> Well I knew him before he was a detective, so\u2014 [Laughter] \u2014that doesn\u2019t work in his favor.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. Warner:<\/strong> Yes. That doesn\u2019t work in my favor. [Laughter] I get no credit for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is the Bible verse that keeps coming to mind as we\u2019ve had this conversation this week, it\u2019s 1 Peter 3:15. I think to myself, \u201cThis describes this couple.\u201d \u201cIn your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.\u201d That\u2019s really defining what God\u2019s called you to at this chapter of your life; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. Warner:<\/strong> Yes. We see this in kids; right? I remember as a youth pastor working, and a pastor who was our lead pastor at the time said, \u201cYou know Jim if you\u2014people can\u2019t help but love the people who love their kids.\u201d It\u2019s so true; right? If you love someone\u2019s kids, you not only gain the child, but you also gain the parents of the child. I think what we\u2019ve seen now, in this stage of life as we\u2019re writing books for kids, because we love kids\u2014and that\u2019s really what\u2019s at risk. By the time you\u2019re my age you\u2019re either in\u2014or out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it\u2019s different approaches. If I\u2019m a Christian at 55, I\u2019ll probably be a Christian till I die. But if you\u2019re a Christian at five\u2014you may not be a Christian at 25. It\u2019s in those years between five and 25 that a lot of action occurs. We want to be able to help that age group\u2014just know that it\u2019s true. I always say it this way: If you know it\u2019s true, but you want to go off in your college years and do stupid\u2014I get that. I was not a Christian till I was 35. I did stupid in college\u2014I get that. That\u2019s on you, if you want to chase your passions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if you\u2019re doing that in college because you don\u2019t believe it\u2019s true anymore\u2014that\u2019s on me as your youth pastor\u2014as your parent. So, if you want to deny the truth to explore a season\u2014I would not suggest you do that\u2014but that\u2019s going to be on you. If you don\u2019t think it\u2019s true anymore that\u2019s because I didn\u2019t prepare you well enough to know that it\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I think there\u2019s a lot of parents listening right now who could benefit from not only getting a copy of <em>Cold Case Christianity<\/em> but also <em>Cold Case Christianity for Kids<\/em>. That\u2019s for eight to 12-year-olds?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. Warner:<\/strong> Yes. I think that\u2019s probably the best range.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; written so that a child can digest that\u2014and I think some moms and dads who go through it with them will also find it interesting. I just want to say thanks to both of you for being here on the broadcast and for the work that you\u2019re doing\u2014not only for this generation but for future generations as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. Warner:<\/strong> Well thanks for making this show so easy to do\u2014wouldn\u2019t you say Susie?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong> It\u2019s been a real pleasure to meet both of you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J. Warner:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s been great to have you guys here. I have shared with a lot of people about your book because I\u2019m excited about it. I hope a lot of people will get a copy of <em>Cold Case Christianity<\/em> and go through it for themselves, with their high school age kids. If you\u2019ve got younger kids get a copy of the book that\u2019s written for them. We\u2019ve got both books in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order online if you\u2019d like at FamilyLifeToday.com or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain the website, FamilyLifeToday.com. The number is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor a lot of families this is a busy time of year. Summer is wrapping up and the routine is settling back in. We\u2019re paying special attention here at <em>FamilyLife<\/em> to these last few days of August because this month we\u2019ve had an opportunity to expand the reach of this ministry in a significant way. We\u2019re trying to take full advantage of that opportunity. We had a friend of the ministry come along and say, \u201cWe would like to see you reach more people.\u201d And here\u2019s what they wanted to do. They wanted to match every donation we receive during the month of August on a dollar-for-dollar basis. They agreed to go as high as $800,000. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow the reason they did it as a matching gift is because they didn\u2019t just want to give\u2014they wanted to encourage you to give as well. They\u2019re hoping that regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners\u2014those of you who have given in the past or maybe those of you who have never made a donation\u2014they\u2019re hoping that you will be encouraged to make a donation knowing that whatever you donate is going to be matched dollar for dollar.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWith these extra funds, we\u2019re able to expand the outreach of this ministry. We\u2019re able to reach more people\u2014day in and day out\u2014thanks to your investment. So, we\u2019re asking everybody who\u2019s listening to go to FamilyLifeToday.com and make whatever donation you can make. It\u2019s easy to donate online. Again the website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Call to donate 1-800-FL-TODAY or mail your donation to us at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at P.O. Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. Our zip code is 72223. Again only a few days left for us to take advantage of this matching gift, so we hope you\u2019ll donate today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend. We hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend. I hope you can join us back on Monday. We\u2019re going to talk to a couple we\u2019ve talked to before, Chris and Cindy Beall. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTheir marriage was characterized by betrayal\u2014by lies\u2014adultery\u2014was a child born out of wedlock. It\u2019s one of those marriages where you\u2019d look at what happened and you\u2019d go, \u201cI don\u2019t know if this marriage can survive\u2014in fact\u2014I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s healthy for this couple to stay together.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, it\u2019s been more than 10 years and Chris and Cindy Beall will be back with us on Monday to talk about how their marriage has survived and what God\u2019s been doing in their lives. Hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. A Cru\u00ae Ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/304654","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304654"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304654"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304654"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304654"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=304654"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=304654"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=304654"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}