{"id":304514,"date":"2017-05-22T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-05-22T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/understanding-bipolar-disorder\/"},"modified":"2017-05-22T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-05-22T15:00:00","slug":"understanding-bipolar-disorder","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/understanding-bipolar-disorder\/","title":{"rendered":"Understanding Bipolar Disorder"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What is bipolar disorder? Dr. Charles Hodges explains the signs and symptoms of bipolar disorder. Bob Lepine talks about his own father, who struggled with this diagnosis.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-05-22.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:54","filesize":"25.55M","filesize_raw":"26787414","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2846,2873],"tags":[5353,4434],"podcast_series":[8014],"cwp_profile":[9339],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304514","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-depression","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","tag-bipolar","tag-mental-illness","podcast_series-good-mood-bad-mood","cwp_profile-charles-hodges","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304514\/understanding-bipolar-disorder","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304514\/understanding-bipolar-disorder","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"d34H1F8d8o\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/understanding-bipolar-disorder\/\">Understanding Bipolar Disorder<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/understanding-bipolar-disorder\/embed\/#?secret=d34H1F8d8o\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Understanding Bipolar Disorder&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"d34H1F8d8o\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-05-22.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-05-22.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Is there a difference between sadness and depression?\u00a0 Dr. Charles Hodges says, \u201cMedically, the differentiation has shifted over the years.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>When I was in medical school, if someone was going to have major depression, they would have to be someone who had a depressed mood and then all the symptoms that go along with it; but they shouldn\u2019t be able to tell you why. Those were the people we called depressed in the 1970s; but after 1980, cause was removed. Up until 1980, if you could tell me <em>why<\/em> you were sad, then, I didn\u2019t say you were depressed\u2014I said you were grieving. As a result, right now, we think that\u2014with regard to depression\u2014maybe, the over diagnosis may be as high as 90 percent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, May 22<sup>nd<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019re going to talk today about what it is that causes people to be sad or depressed and different ways of responding to that diagnosis. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I have been looking forward to our conversation today because\u2014well, because of my history\u2014you\u2019re aware of a little of my history here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. Your dad struggled with something that we\u2019ll be talking about today. Let me introduce our guest; and then, let\u2019s come back and explain to our listeners what we\u2019re talking about. Dr. Charlie Hodges joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Charlie, welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>It\u2019s good to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Charlie\u2014and he said it\u2019s okay to call him Charlie. He is Dr. Hodges because he is a family physician; but Charlie\u2019s a licensed marital and family therapist. He\u2019s been married to Helen since 1971. They have four children. He is both a golfer, and he is a runner who gets attacked by geese. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe found that out before we came into the studio here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut he has written a book called <em>Good Mood, Bad Mood: Help and Hope for Depression and Bipolar Disorder<\/em>. That leads us back to you, Bob\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and the story about your dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; that\u2019s what piqued my interest, because my dad was a World War II veteran. In fact, he was on a landing carrier called the Susan B. Anthony that went into the beaches of Normandy the second day of the invasion. The landing craft hit a mine and sank. Dad wound up on the beach. Everybody survived the sinking\u2014but Dad wound up on the beach and, actually, passed out on the beaches of Normandy\u2014was taken back to England and recouped. He had a knee injury as a result of the landing craft sinking. Of course, I didn\u2019t know much about any of this when I was growing up; because Dad didn\u2019t talk much about World War II. A lot of veterans\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014one of the ways they protected their families was by not talking about their battle memories. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But I was aware of the fact\u2014especially during my teen years\u2014I was aware of the fact that my dad drank and often drank to excess. I would see that lived out in kind of silly behavior on his part, sometimes, when he had too much to drink and he was trying to be funny\u2014it was just awkward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Sohe wasn\u2019t violent?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>He wasn\u2019t violent. It was just\u2014it was obvious that he wasn\u2019t thinking straight, and it was a little embarrassing. I remember, one night, when a friend of mine was over at the house. We were just spending the evening. Dad came home from a party, and he\u2019d had too much to drink. I was just kind of embarrassed that\u2014here was my dad, acting silly in front of my friend\u2014but didn\u2019t really think much about it\u2014was just kind of <em>there<\/em>. I knew that when Dad would come home from work, he\u2019d fix a drink first thing when he got home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I began to see, in my high school years, that this was creating tension in his relationship with my mom\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that Mom and Dad were arguing and fighting. I also began to see behavior that was different than I had seen before. I don\u2019t know if this was just because I hadn\u2019t seen it before or if it started to appear more regularly when my dad was in his early 50s. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And you were how old, again?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m 17 years old\u2014I\u2019m a senior in high school. The behavior that I was seeing was Dad being erratic. He was being\u2014and I wouldn\u2019t have used this term, at the time\u2014but people talked about him being grandiose. He was doing things that were larger than made sense. For example, he went on a business trip one time with about ten friends. He came back and told my mom that he decided to buy dress shirts for all of them while he was on the trip\u2014just went out and bought a new dress shirt for everybody. I don\u2019t know what that cost\u2014three or four hundred dollars in those days. Mom was appalled: \u201cWhy would you buy dress shirts for all your coworkers?\u201d\u00a0 I think the coworkers were probably a little stunned\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it was kind of confusing behavior to them as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, this all culminated with an event\u2014this was the fall of my senior year in high school. We got a call one night. Dad had been in to see the company psychologist at the company where he worked. The psychologist had said: \u201cYou have two options. You can either go and check yourself into the hospital\u2014into the psych ward to get treatment for what\u2019s going on\u201d\u2014this had become apparently an issue at work\u2014\u201cor we\u2019ll let you go. You\u2019ll be dismissed from the job.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe called home. He got Mom and me on the phone\u2014he said, \u201cThey want me to go into this psych ward. They think that I need help. Is that what you think I ought to do?\u201d\u00a0 And Mom and I both kind of looked at each other and said, \u201cWell, yes, seeing what we\u2019ve seen around the house, we think you need to do that.\u201d\u00a0 I found out, later, that the psychiatrist had called home and talked to my mom and had said, \u201cWe\u2019re going to have this meeting with him.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, they were on the same page before all of this happened. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, my dad came home. He packed his suitcase\u2014I remember he got out a small suitcase and put it on the bed. Mom said, \u201cI think you\u2019re going to need a bigger suitcase.\u201d He said, \u201cNo, watch this\u2014watch.\u201d\u00a0 He started to stuff more than would fit into this small suitcase. It became obvious to both of us that what he was trying to pack was not going to fit in that small suitcase; but rather than saying: \u201cOkay, you\u2019re right. I should have gotten a bigger suitcase,\u201d he kept stuffing and, finally, got a paper sack and put what wouldn\u2019t fit in the small suitcase in the paper sack. So, he headed off to the psych ward with a suitcase and a paper sack. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne final story and then we\u2019ll talk to our guest; and we\u2019ll get your perspective on what I experienced, as a teenager. My dad was an outpatient in the psych ward. He had a business associate who would come and pick him up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey\u2019d go out and play a round of golf\u2014this was part of the outpatient treatment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, they were driving back from the golf course. There was a farmer selling eggs on the side of the road. Dad said: \u201cPull over. I think I need to buy some eggs.\u201d\u00a0 And they went up to the farmer. Dad was asking, \u201cHow much are the eggs?\u201d and he said, \u201cI think I need a dozen gross of eggs.\u201d\u00a0 Now, a gross of eggs is 144 eggs. The friend, who was with him, was able to talk him out of\u2014\u201cThat\u2019s probably \/ you\u2019re heading back to the hospital, and\u2026\u201d\u2014but this was just another indication that this behavior \/ this way of thinking\u2014something had gotten messed up in his head. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I\u2019ll just draw the story to a conclusion. He was in the psych ward for three weeks. He was medicated and eventually came home. He, for the rest of his life, stayed on medication. He also did eventually quit drinking. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was about five years later that he quit drinking through another series of events; but that\u2019s the first time I had ever heard expressions like \u201cmanic depression\u201d or \u201cbipolar disorder.\u201d\u00a0 And I got a chance to see, firsthand, the impact that can have on a marriage and a family\u2014how a wife can be confused, and alone, and not know what to do, and looking for help. She\u2019s trying to figure out, \u201cWhat do I do with my son in this situation?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, I just had a chance to experience that, growing up, in my family of origin. So, I thought, \u201cThis would be good for us to talk about\u201d; because I\u2019m sure there are a lot of families where this kind of a diagnosis has been given, and this kind of behavior is going on, and families aren\u2019t sure what to do about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I\u2019m sure, Charlie, when you came down here to be interviewed on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, that you never dreamed we would start the broadcast with\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014with a case study. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014with a case study for you to begin. Tell us what your thoughts are about what was taking place in Bob\u2019s dad\u2019s life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Well, Bob\u2019s dad sounds very much like the first manic depressive patient that I ever saw when I was in medical school. We had to do a rotation on psychiatry, and they brought a salesman in to talk to us. He was telling us about all these big business deals that he had to get done. His main concern was that we get him out of the hospital before the day was over because, if we didn\u2019t, he was going to lose a lot of money. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we were all a little amused by it. He was a pleasant person\u2014he was kind of funny \/ he was engaging. Most of us, at that level of training, didn\u2019t really think he was sick\u2014which is probably why people like this can get in fairly deep into difficulty because a lot of their behaviors are just viewed by other people as being amusing or whatever. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, you didn\u2019t think he was suffering from an illness, at that point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>No; actually, we thought the cure was worse than the disease, you know, because we saw him a couple weeks later, after they\u2019d treated him for a couple weeks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was sort of like they\u2019d taken all the fire out his engine. He was taking, I think, lithium at the time. He didn\u2019t talk about business anymore. He wasn\u2019t cracking jokes, and he wasn\u2019t particularly funny. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen the interview was over, and we were talking to the psychiatrist later, we sort of allowed that we thought \/ we wondered whether he was better off now than he was before. What the psychiatrist explained was that he understood our thinking; but he said, \u201cWhat you have to understand, for the person who is in the middle of it, it\u2019s a lot like driving a car down the street. You\u2019re going a hundred miles an hour, and it\u2019s a crowded street; and you don\u2019t have a steering wheel or brakes. That\u2019s how they <em>feel<\/em>.\u201d\u00a0 And he said that once they\u2019re on their medicine, they generally do feel better. So, Bob\u2019s father sounds very much like he had manic depression. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And as you described the treatment\u2014I went to see my dad in the hospital about two days before he was released. I remember that night, as we sat and visited, I thought: \u201cHe\u2019s not better. He\u2019s been here three weeks, and he is not better.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I later learned that how they were dealing with this\u2014and this was back in the \u201870s. They had him in the hospital\u2014every day, they were giving him a dosage of lithium. Every day, they were giving him a little bit more. When they got to the point that the dosage was toxic and he started to vomit, they went back to the previous day\u2019s dosage and said, \u201cThat\u2019s your dosage.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Well, now, they do it a lot better than that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, that was how they did it with him. And they told us\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014first of all, they\u2019d never given a patient as much lithium as they\u2019d given him. They also\u2014when he came home, there was about a month where he was pretty flat\u2014not catatonic but almost like he wasn\u2019t fully there. And I remember thinking like you\u2014I\u2019m wondering: \u201cWhich is better?\u2014how he was before, which was kind of crazy, and how he is today, which is kind of gone.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Which is, I think, the observation that a lot of people might make who aren\u2019t very familiar with people who have what we now call Bipolar Disorder I. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I went to medical school\u2014in between 1971 and 1975\u2014it was called manic depression. It was changed to bipolar disorder in 1980. The American Psychiatric Association revised, under the direction of Robert Spitzer, the DSM-III. At that point, it became bipolar disorder. Manic depression was known as Bipolar Disorder I. But back then, the treatment that your dad received was a good treatment. Today, they would do blood levels and things like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can remember, when I was in psychiatry\u2014and it was a very imprecise science, at the time\u2014and I was at the psych ward at Marion County General Hospital at the time. I was the staff physician. I was a junior medical student\u2014I was a staff physician for 15 people who were on the ward. I would ask the psychiatrist, who would come around a couple times a week and ask us how things were going and tell us what to do: \u201cHow much of this medicine should I give this patient?\u201d\u00a0 The response was: \u201cWell, you just keep giving it to them until they don\u2019t hear voices anymore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThen, that\u2019s the dose,\u201d which is very much like what you were talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Things are <em>far<\/em> more precise now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How many Americans suffer from this disease \/ this illness?\u00a0 And second part of the question is: \u201cWhat causes it?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Well, first part of the question: \u201cHow many people suffer from it?\u201d\u00a0 People, such as Bob\u2019s father, probably, make up one-tenth of one percent of the U.S. population\u2014that is a very small number. That would be logical; because you don\u2019t run into people who are so affected, as his dad was, very often. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, it gets a little complicated now because, in 1980, they changed the name to bipolar disorder. They said that Bipolar Disorder I would be the old manic depression; but then, they added another layer of categories, which were meant for people who might look a little bit like they had bipolar disorder \/ manic depression but were not considered to have it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, if you ask how many people in the U.S. have bipolar disorder today, you might hear a number anywhere from six to eight percent. That was part of the reason why I wrote the book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As a doctor, you\u2019re looking at current practice and saying: \u201cThere is an over diagnosis of this disorder. Some people, who are dealing with significant mood swings, are being labeled bipolar when that\u2019s not really what\u2019s going on with them.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>I would say that bipolar disorder in the United States today is being over diagnosed, for certain. When I wrote <em>Good Mood, Bad Mood<\/em>, I set out to write a book about bipolar disorder; but the problem was\u2014I couldn\u2019t find a publisher who thought it would be good for 15 chapters. They just didn\u2019t think there would be enough information for a whole book\u2014which was a very good thing because, then, I had to agree to write about mood disorders \/ I had to write about depression. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I found out, as I researched, was that not only did they change the criteria for bipolar disorder \/ manic depression in 1980\u2014they also changed the way they make the diagnosis of depression. I think that is the <em>key <\/em>to understanding why we\u2019re seeing so much more diagnosis today of bipolar disorder. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Did they lower the bar, so to speak?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Yes; well, it was one important thing that they did. They took away the requirement for cause. When I was in medical school, if someone was going to have major depression, they would have to be someone who had a depressed mood and then all the symptoms that go along with it; but they shouldn\u2019t be able to tell you <em>why<\/em>\u2014it was sadness without cause. Up until 1980, if you could tell me <em>why<\/em> you were sad, then, I didn\u2019t say you were depressed\u2014I said you were grieving\u2014grieving over a loss \/ a <em>significant<\/em> loss. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a result, right now, we think that, with regard to depression, maybe the over diagnosis may be as high as 90 percent\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that in 90 percent of the people who, today, are labeled depressed\u2014you can sit down and talk with them, and you can find out the day they started to be depressed, and you can find out what it was they <em>lost<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, the percentage of people today in our country that suffer from depression\u2014and again, I guess you\u2019re going to have to clarify which definition you are going to use here\u2014what\u2019s the percentage though?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Charles: <\/strong>Numbers vary, but it can range everywhere from 10 percent to 20. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s the number who are being treated for what\u2019s labeled as depression; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>But how many people would you say have real, legitimate depression versus a grieving or sadness?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Probably, I would say somewhere around two percent\u2014you know, a much lower number\u2014people who can\u2019t tell you why they\u2019re sad. That\u2019s the big difference. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, you\u2019re going back to the old definition?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Yes; I am. Part of the reason for that is that people, who are currently being treated for depression with antidepressants\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014we found they don\u2019t respond nearly as well as we had hoped\u2014that the medical treatment of depression is less effective for individuals. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was a study that came out in the <em>Journal of the American Medical Association<\/em> in 2010. The authors of it noted that people\u2014who were mildly depressed, moderately depressed, and even severely depressed\u2014of those people, if you looked at them\u2014and they make up probably 87 percent of the people who are labeled with depression\u2014that most of the benefit of taking medication for those people can be attributed to the placebo effect of just taking a medicine. Now, placebo, of course, is a pill that looks like\u2014does not contain the actual medicine. What they found was that people in that first 90 percent\u2014let\u2019s say 87-90 percent\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014people in <em>that<\/em> group would respond just as well to a pill that didn\u2019t have the medicine in it as they would to the pill that did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Charlie, we\u2019ve got people listening to us today, hearing this discussion\u2014they\u2019re going to their email, right now, to write to us. They\u2019re saying: \u201cThis is so typical of Christians that I\u2019ve heard, who want to tell me, \u2018You\u2019re not really depressed.\u2019 They don\u2019t know what I\u2019m battling through. They want to tell me it\u2019s all in my head; and if I\u2019d just pray more, I\u2019d feel better.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Charles: <\/strong>That\u2019s <em>not<\/em> <em>true<\/em>. I really liked what Irving Kirsch said\u2014who did a lot of the studies at Harvard University Med School in placebo research, actually. His response to it was: \u201cIt isn\u2019t an answer for folks, like that, to do nothing.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI do <em>not<\/em> look at people, who come to me and tell me that they are sad, and tell them that: \u201cIf they just went to church three times a week, and read their Bibles\u2014three chapters a day and four on Sunday\u2014and memorize a verse every week that their sad mood would go away.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tQuite on the other hand\u2014you could come back at this from the other side and say, \u201cWell, we\u2019ve been treating people with antidepressants now since 1988 at an ever-increasing level.\u201d\u00a0 The number of people who are taking antidepressants has skyrocketed and the amount that we sell every year has, I think, doubled in the\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s the number-one drug prescribed in America; isn\u2019t it\u2014is antidepressant drug?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Yes; I would say it is. We have written and given this to everybody and anybody who even remotely looks like they might have depression. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I would say something about taking medicine. From 1986 until present, there has been this <em>constant<\/em> argument about whether it is right or wrong to take medicine for things like depression, anxiety, and stuff like that. My response is that we\u2019ve been asking the wrong question all this time. We shouldn\u2019t have been asking whether it was right or wrong to take it. I think the question we should have been asking is: \u201cDoes medicine actually work?\u00a0 Does it really help the people who take it, or is it just a medicine that actually changes their personality but doesn\u2019t really help them with their issue?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I want to be clear here, too, because\u2014just like the person who was getting ready to write us and say, \u201cYou guys are just saying I should pray more,\u201d\u2014now, there are some people who are listening, going: \u201cWell, I\u2019m taking Prozac<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. I heard the guy on the radio say it\u2019s probably not helping me. Should I just quit taking it?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Oh, never!\u00a0 In my book, and whenever I speak to people, I always tell them, \u201cYou should never change the dose of medicine that you are taking \/ you should never stop any medicine you\u2019re taking without talking to your doctor.\u201d\u00a0 I don\u2019t advise people to change their medicines or stop taking them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I just wanted to make sure that we were clear and no listener was going: \u201cHe said, \u2018Throw the Prozac away. It\u2019s not doing you any good.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>I write prescriptions for antidepressants\u2014I give them to people. I try to explain to them that I don\u2019t think it\u2019s going to change their life but that it probably will affect their personality\u2014and they may not like the way that it affects their personality\u2014but if they come to me and ask me for it, and if I think they meet the criteria for depression,\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will write the prescription for them, and follow along, and take care of them as a physician. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t know that you can do this or would do this, but I would sure think that if you had somebody who you were writing a prescription for, that you also would encourage them to get a copy of your book. I mean, <em>I would<\/em>. I think your book does a <em>great <\/em>job of helping people understand what they are going through and whether there is something medical at play or whether it is just a profound emotional sadness that they are experiencing, and \u201cHow can you tell which is which?\u201d and \u201cHow do you respond to what you find out?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got copies of Dr. Hodges\u2019 book in our <em>FamilyLifeToday<\/em> Resource Center. The book is called <em>Good Mood, Bad Mood: Help and Hope for Depression and Bipolar Disorder<\/em>. You can order a copy of the book from us when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com or call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Or you can call to get a copy of the book, <em>Good Mood, Bad Mood<\/em>,by Dr. Charles Hodges. Our number is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d real quickly to those of you who are regular listeners\u2014who, in the last few weeks, have been getting in touch with us and helping us reach the goal we\u2019re trying to reach this month. We\u2019re trying to raise $1.1 million during the month of May\u2014a significant milestone number for us\u2014but it\u2019s a number that will enable us to continue work on a variety of projects that are under way, here, at <em>FamilyLife. <\/em>This will help us be able to continue working on these through the summer\u2014that\u2019s why we established this goal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve had friends of the ministry, who have come along and said, \u201cWe want to help encourage listeners to be generous during May.\u201d These folks have offered matching funds. In fact, you can go to our website for an update on how we\u2019re doing in attempting to take advantage of the matching-gift funds. I haven\u2019t seen the latest numbers; but they are available, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCan we ask you to help us finish out the month of May with a strong push to reach our goal of $1.1 million raised this month? If you can make a donation of any amount, please do so. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014donate online; or call 1-800- FL-TODAY to donate. Or you can mail your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about why God might take us into a season where we experience profound depression\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it happened to David \/ it\u2019s happened to many followers of Christ throughout the years, including people like Charles Spurgeon. What is God up to when he takes us into those seasons? We\u2019ll explore that tomorrow with Dr. Charles Hodges. I hope you can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:54"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.55M"],"filesize_raw":["26787414"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304514.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304514.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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is bipolar disorder? Dr. Charles Hodges explains the signs and symptoms of bipolar disorder. Bob Lepine talks about his own father, who struggled with this diagnosis.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-05-22.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Is there a difference between sadness and depression?\u00a0 Dr. Charles Hodges says, \u201cMedically, the differentiation has shifted over the years.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>When I was in medical school, if someone was going to have major depression, they would have to be someone who had a depressed mood and then all the symptoms that go along with it; but they shouldn\u2019t be able to tell you why. Those were the people we called depressed in the 1970s; but after 1980, cause was removed. Up until 1980, if you could tell me <em>why<\/em> you were sad, then, I didn\u2019t say you were depressed\u2014I said you were grieving. As a result, right now, we think that\u2014with regard to depression\u2014maybe, the over diagnosis may be as high as 90 percent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, May 22<sup>nd<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019re going to talk today about what it is that causes people to be sad or depressed and different ways of responding to that diagnosis. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I have been looking forward to our conversation today because\u2014well, because of my history\u2014you\u2019re aware of a little of my history here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. Your dad struggled with something that we\u2019ll be talking about today. Let me introduce our guest; and then, let\u2019s come back and explain to our listeners what we\u2019re talking about. Dr. Charlie Hodges joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Charlie, welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>It\u2019s good to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Charlie\u2014and he said it\u2019s okay to call him Charlie. He is Dr. Hodges because he is a family physician; but Charlie\u2019s a licensed marital and family therapist. He\u2019s been married to Helen since 1971. They have four children. He is both a golfer, and he is a runner who gets attacked by geese. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe found that out before we came into the studio here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut he has written a book called <em>Good Mood, Bad Mood: Help and Hope for Depression and Bipolar Disorder<\/em>. That leads us back to you, Bob\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and the story about your dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; that\u2019s what piqued my interest, because my dad was a World War II veteran. In fact, he was on a landing carrier called the Susan B. Anthony that went into the beaches of Normandy the second day of the invasion. The landing craft hit a mine and sank. Dad wound up on the beach. Everybody survived the sinking\u2014but Dad wound up on the beach and, actually, passed out on the beaches of Normandy\u2014was taken back to England and recouped. He had a knee injury as a result of the landing craft sinking. Of course, I didn\u2019t know much about any of this when I was growing up; because Dad didn\u2019t talk much about World War II. A lot of veterans\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014one of the ways they protected their families was by not talking about their battle memories. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But I was aware of the fact\u2014especially during my teen years\u2014I was aware of the fact that my dad drank and often drank to excess. I would see that lived out in kind of silly behavior on his part, sometimes, when he had too much to drink and he was trying to be funny\u2014it was just awkward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Sohe wasn\u2019t violent?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>He wasn\u2019t violent. It was just\u2014it was obvious that he wasn\u2019t thinking straight, and it was a little embarrassing. I remember, one night, when a friend of mine was over at the house. We were just spending the evening. Dad came home from a party, and he\u2019d had too much to drink. I was just kind of embarrassed that\u2014here was my dad, acting silly in front of my friend\u2014but didn\u2019t really think much about it\u2014was just kind of <em>there<\/em>. I knew that when Dad would come home from work, he\u2019d fix a drink first thing when he got home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I began to see, in my high school years, that this was creating tension in his relationship with my mom\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that Mom and Dad were arguing and fighting. I also began to see behavior that was different than I had seen before. I don\u2019t know if this was just because I hadn\u2019t seen it before or if it started to appear more regularly when my dad was in his early 50s. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And you were how old, again?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m 17 years old\u2014I\u2019m a senior in high school. The behavior that I was seeing was Dad being erratic. He was being\u2014and I wouldn\u2019t have used this term, at the time\u2014but people talked about him being grandiose. He was doing things that were larger than made sense. For example, he went on a business trip one time with about ten friends. He came back and told my mom that he decided to buy dress shirts for all of them while he was on the trip\u2014just went out and bought a new dress shirt for everybody. I don\u2019t know what that cost\u2014three or four hundred dollars in those days. Mom was appalled: \u201cWhy would you buy dress shirts for all your coworkers?\u201d\u00a0 I think the coworkers were probably a little stunned\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it was kind of confusing behavior to them as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, this all culminated with an event\u2014this was the fall of my senior year in high school. We got a call one night. Dad had been in to see the company psychologist at the company where he worked. The psychologist had said: \u201cYou have two options. You can either go and check yourself into the hospital\u2014into the psych ward to get treatment for what\u2019s going on\u201d\u2014this had become apparently an issue at work\u2014\u201cor we\u2019ll let you go. You\u2019ll be dismissed from the job.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe called home. He got Mom and me on the phone\u2014he said, \u201cThey want me to go into this psych ward. They think that I need help. Is that what you think I ought to do?\u201d\u00a0 And Mom and I both kind of looked at each other and said, \u201cWell, yes, seeing what we\u2019ve seen around the house, we think you need to do that.\u201d\u00a0 I found out, later, that the psychiatrist had called home and talked to my mom and had said, \u201cWe\u2019re going to have this meeting with him.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, they were on the same page before all of this happened. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, my dad came home. He packed his suitcase\u2014I remember he got out a small suitcase and put it on the bed. Mom said, \u201cI think you\u2019re going to need a bigger suitcase.\u201d He said, \u201cNo, watch this\u2014watch.\u201d\u00a0 He started to stuff more than would fit into this small suitcase. It became obvious to both of us that what he was trying to pack was not going to fit in that small suitcase; but rather than saying: \u201cOkay, you\u2019re right. I should have gotten a bigger suitcase,\u201d he kept stuffing and, finally, got a paper sack and put what wouldn\u2019t fit in the small suitcase in the paper sack. So, he headed off to the psych ward with a suitcase and a paper sack. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne final story and then we\u2019ll talk to our guest; and we\u2019ll get your perspective on what I experienced, as a teenager. My dad was an outpatient in the psych ward. He had a business associate who would come and pick him up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey\u2019d go out and play a round of golf\u2014this was part of the outpatient treatment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, they were driving back from the golf course. There was a farmer selling eggs on the side of the road. Dad said: \u201cPull over. I think I need to buy some eggs.\u201d\u00a0 And they went up to the farmer. Dad was asking, \u201cHow much are the eggs?\u201d and he said, \u201cI think I need a dozen gross of eggs.\u201d\u00a0 Now, a gross of eggs is 144 eggs. The friend, who was with him, was able to talk him out of\u2014\u201cThat\u2019s probably \/ you\u2019re heading back to the hospital, and\u2026\u201d\u2014but this was just another indication that this behavior \/ this way of thinking\u2014something had gotten messed up in his head. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I\u2019ll just draw the story to a conclusion. He was in the psych ward for three weeks. He was medicated and eventually came home. He, for the rest of his life, stayed on medication. He also did eventually quit drinking. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was about five years later that he quit drinking through another series of events; but that\u2019s the first time I had ever heard expressions like \u201cmanic depression\u201d or \u201cbipolar disorder.\u201d\u00a0 And I got a chance to see, firsthand, the impact that can have on a marriage and a family\u2014how a wife can be confused, and alone, and not know what to do, and looking for help. She\u2019s trying to figure out, \u201cWhat do I do with my son in this situation?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, I just had a chance to experience that, growing up, in my family of origin. So, I thought, \u201cThis would be good for us to talk about\u201d; because I\u2019m sure there are a lot of families where this kind of a diagnosis has been given, and this kind of behavior is going on, and families aren\u2019t sure what to do about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I\u2019m sure, Charlie, when you came down here to be interviewed on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, that you never dreamed we would start the broadcast with\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014with a case study. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014with a case study for you to begin. Tell us what your thoughts are about what was taking place in Bob\u2019s dad\u2019s life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Well, Bob\u2019s dad sounds very much like the first manic depressive patient that I ever saw when I was in medical school. We had to do a rotation on psychiatry, and they brought a salesman in to talk to us. He was telling us about all these big business deals that he had to get done. His main concern was that we get him out of the hospital before the day was over because, if we didn\u2019t, he was going to lose a lot of money. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we were all a little amused by it. He was a pleasant person\u2014he was kind of funny \/ he was engaging. Most of us, at that level of training, didn\u2019t really think he was sick\u2014which is probably why people like this can get in fairly deep into difficulty because a lot of their behaviors are just viewed by other people as being amusing or whatever. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, you didn\u2019t think he was suffering from an illness, at that point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>No; actually, we thought the cure was worse than the disease, you know, because we saw him a couple weeks later, after they\u2019d treated him for a couple weeks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was sort of like they\u2019d taken all the fire out his engine. He was taking, I think, lithium at the time. He didn\u2019t talk about business anymore. He wasn\u2019t cracking jokes, and he wasn\u2019t particularly funny. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen the interview was over, and we were talking to the psychiatrist later, we sort of allowed that we thought \/ we wondered whether he was better off now than he was before. What the psychiatrist explained was that he understood our thinking; but he said, \u201cWhat you have to understand, for the person who is in the middle of it, it\u2019s a lot like driving a car down the street. You\u2019re going a hundred miles an hour, and it\u2019s a crowded street; and you don\u2019t have a steering wheel or brakes. That\u2019s how they <em>feel<\/em>.\u201d\u00a0 And he said that once they\u2019re on their medicine, they generally do feel better. So, Bob\u2019s father sounds very much like he had manic depression. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And as you described the treatment\u2014I went to see my dad in the hospital about two days before he was released. I remember that night, as we sat and visited, I thought: \u201cHe\u2019s not better. He\u2019s been here three weeks, and he is not better.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I later learned that how they were dealing with this\u2014and this was back in the \u201870s. They had him in the hospital\u2014every day, they were giving him a dosage of lithium. Every day, they were giving him a little bit more. When they got to the point that the dosage was toxic and he started to vomit, they went back to the previous day\u2019s dosage and said, \u201cThat\u2019s your dosage.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Well, now, they do it a lot better than that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, that was how they did it with him. And they told us\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014first of all, they\u2019d never given a patient as much lithium as they\u2019d given him. They also\u2014when he came home, there was about a month where he was pretty flat\u2014not catatonic but almost like he wasn\u2019t fully there. And I remember thinking like you\u2014I\u2019m wondering: \u201cWhich is better?\u2014how he was before, which was kind of crazy, and how he is today, which is kind of gone.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Which is, I think, the observation that a lot of people might make who aren\u2019t very familiar with people who have what we now call Bipolar Disorder I. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I went to medical school\u2014in between 1971 and 1975\u2014it was called manic depression. It was changed to bipolar disorder in 1980. The American Psychiatric Association revised, under the direction of Robert Spitzer, the DSM-III. At that point, it became bipolar disorder. Manic depression was known as Bipolar Disorder I. But back then, the treatment that your dad received was a good treatment. Today, they would do blood levels and things like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can remember, when I was in psychiatry\u2014and it was a very imprecise science, at the time\u2014and I was at the psych ward at Marion County General Hospital at the time. I was the staff physician. I was a junior medical student\u2014I was a staff physician for 15 people who were on the ward. I would ask the psychiatrist, who would come around a couple times a week and ask us how things were going and tell us what to do: \u201cHow much of this medicine should I give this patient?\u201d\u00a0 The response was: \u201cWell, you just keep giving it to them until they don\u2019t hear voices anymore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThen, that\u2019s the dose,\u201d which is very much like what you were talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Things are <em>far<\/em> more precise now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>How many Americans suffer from this disease \/ this illness?\u00a0 And second part of the question is: \u201cWhat causes it?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Well, first part of the question: \u201cHow many people suffer from it?\u201d\u00a0 People, such as Bob\u2019s father, probably, make up one-tenth of one percent of the U.S. population\u2014that is a very small number. That would be logical; because you don\u2019t run into people who are so affected, as his dad was, very often. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, it gets a little complicated now because, in 1980, they changed the name to bipolar disorder. They said that Bipolar Disorder I would be the old manic depression; but then, they added another layer of categories, which were meant for people who might look a little bit like they had bipolar disorder \/ manic depression but were not considered to have it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, if you ask how many people in the U.S. have bipolar disorder today, you might hear a number anywhere from six to eight percent. That was part of the reason why I wrote the book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As a doctor, you\u2019re looking at current practice and saying: \u201cThere is an over diagnosis of this disorder. Some people, who are dealing with significant mood swings, are being labeled bipolar when that\u2019s not really what\u2019s going on with them.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>I would say that bipolar disorder in the United States today is being over diagnosed, for certain. When I wrote <em>Good Mood, Bad Mood<\/em>, I set out to write a book about bipolar disorder; but the problem was\u2014I couldn\u2019t find a publisher who thought it would be good for 15 chapters. They just didn\u2019t think there would be enough information for a whole book\u2014which was a very good thing because, then, I had to agree to write about mood disorders \/ I had to write about depression. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I found out, as I researched, was that not only did they change the criteria for bipolar disorder \/ manic depression in 1980\u2014they also changed the way they make the diagnosis of depression. I think that is the <em>key <\/em>to understanding why we\u2019re seeing so much more diagnosis today of bipolar disorder. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Did they lower the bar, so to speak?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Yes; well, it was one important thing that they did. They took away the requirement for cause. When I was in medical school, if someone was going to have major depression, they would have to be someone who had a depressed mood and then all the symptoms that go along with it; but they shouldn\u2019t be able to tell you <em>why<\/em>\u2014it was sadness without cause. Up until 1980, if you could tell me <em>why<\/em> you were sad, then, I didn\u2019t say you were depressed\u2014I said you were grieving\u2014grieving over a loss \/ a <em>significant<\/em> loss. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a result, right now, we think that, with regard to depression, maybe the over diagnosis may be as high as 90 percent\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that in 90 percent of the people who, today, are labeled depressed\u2014you can sit down and talk with them, and you can find out the day they started to be depressed, and you can find out what it was they <em>lost<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, the percentage of people today in our country that suffer from depression\u2014and again, I guess you\u2019re going to have to clarify which definition you are going to use here\u2014what\u2019s the percentage though?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Charles: <\/strong>Numbers vary, but it can range everywhere from 10 percent to 20. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s the number who are being treated for what\u2019s labeled as depression; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>But how many people would you say have real, legitimate depression versus a grieving or sadness?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Probably, I would say somewhere around two percent\u2014you know, a much lower number\u2014people who can\u2019t tell you why they\u2019re sad. That\u2019s the big difference. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, you\u2019re going back to the old definition?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Yes; I am. Part of the reason for that is that people, who are currently being treated for depression with antidepressants\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014we found they don\u2019t respond nearly as well as we had hoped\u2014that the medical treatment of depression is less effective for individuals. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was a study that came out in the <em>Journal of the American Medical Association<\/em> in 2010. The authors of it noted that people\u2014who were mildly depressed, moderately depressed, and even severely depressed\u2014of those people, if you looked at them\u2014and they make up probably 87 percent of the people who are labeled with depression\u2014that most of the benefit of taking medication for those people can be attributed to the placebo effect of just taking a medicine. Now, placebo, of course, is a pill that looks like\u2014does not contain the actual medicine. What they found was that people in that first 90 percent\u2014let\u2019s say 87-90 percent\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014people in <em>that<\/em> group would respond just as well to a pill that didn\u2019t have the medicine in it as they would to the pill that did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Charlie, we\u2019ve got people listening to us today, hearing this discussion\u2014they\u2019re going to their email, right now, to write to us. They\u2019re saying: \u201cThis is so typical of Christians that I\u2019ve heard, who want to tell me, \u2018You\u2019re not really depressed.\u2019 They don\u2019t know what I\u2019m battling through. They want to tell me it\u2019s all in my head; and if I\u2019d just pray more, I\u2019d feel better.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Charles: <\/strong>That\u2019s <em>not<\/em> <em>true<\/em>. I really liked what Irving Kirsch said\u2014who did a lot of the studies at Harvard University Med School in placebo research, actually. His response to it was: \u201cIt isn\u2019t an answer for folks, like that, to do nothing.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI do <em>not<\/em> look at people, who come to me and tell me that they are sad, and tell them that: \u201cIf they just went to church three times a week, and read their Bibles\u2014three chapters a day and four on Sunday\u2014and memorize a verse every week that their sad mood would go away.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tQuite on the other hand\u2014you could come back at this from the other side and say, \u201cWell, we\u2019ve been treating people with antidepressants now since 1988 at an ever-increasing level.\u201d\u00a0 The number of people who are taking antidepressants has skyrocketed and the amount that we sell every year has, I think, doubled in the\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s the number-one drug prescribed in America; isn\u2019t it\u2014is antidepressant drug?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Yes; I would say it is. We have written and given this to everybody and anybody who even remotely looks like they might have depression. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I would say something about taking medicine. From 1986 until present, there has been this <em>constant<\/em> argument about whether it is right or wrong to take medicine for things like depression, anxiety, and stuff like that. My response is that we\u2019ve been asking the wrong question all this time. We shouldn\u2019t have been asking whether it was right or wrong to take it. I think the question we should have been asking is: \u201cDoes medicine actually work?\u00a0 Does it really help the people who take it, or is it just a medicine that actually changes their personality but doesn\u2019t really help them with their issue?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I want to be clear here, too, because\u2014just like the person who was getting ready to write us and say, \u201cYou guys are just saying I should pray more,\u201d\u2014now, there are some people who are listening, going: \u201cWell, I\u2019m taking Prozac<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. I heard the guy on the radio say it\u2019s probably not helping me. Should I just quit taking it?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>Oh, never!\u00a0 In my book, and whenever I speak to people, I always tell them, \u201cYou should never change the dose of medicine that you are taking \/ you should never stop any medicine you\u2019re taking without talking to your doctor.\u201d\u00a0 I don\u2019t advise people to change their medicines or stop taking them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I just wanted to make sure that we were clear and no listener was going: \u201cHe said, \u2018Throw the Prozac away. It\u2019s not doing you any good.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Charles: <\/strong>I write prescriptions for antidepressants\u2014I give them to people. I try to explain to them that I don\u2019t think it\u2019s going to change their life but that it probably will affect their personality\u2014and they may not like the way that it affects their personality\u2014but if they come to me and ask me for it, and if I think they meet the criteria for depression,\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will write the prescription for them, and follow along, and take care of them as a physician. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t know that you can do this or would do this, but I would sure think that if you had somebody who you were writing a prescription for, that you also would encourage them to get a copy of your book. I mean, <em>I would<\/em>. I think your book does a <em>great <\/em>job of helping people understand what they are going through and whether there is something medical at play or whether it is just a profound emotional sadness that they are experiencing, and \u201cHow can you tell which is which?\u201d and \u201cHow do you respond to what you find out?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got copies of Dr. Hodges\u2019 book in our <em>FamilyLifeToday<\/em> Resource Center. The book is called <em>Good Mood, Bad Mood: Help and Hope for Depression and Bipolar Disorder<\/em>. You can order a copy of the book from us when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com or call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Or you can call to get a copy of the book, <em>Good Mood, Bad Mood<\/em>,by Dr. Charles Hodges. Our number is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d real quickly to those of you who are regular listeners\u2014who, in the last few weeks, have been getting in touch with us and helping us reach the goal we\u2019re trying to reach this month. We\u2019re trying to raise $1.1 million during the month of May\u2014a significant milestone number for us\u2014but it\u2019s a number that will enable us to continue work on a variety of projects that are under way, here, at <em>FamilyLife. <\/em>This will help us be able to continue working on these through the summer\u2014that\u2019s why we established this goal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve had friends of the ministry, who have come along and said, \u201cWe want to help encourage listeners to be generous during May.\u201d These folks have offered matching funds. In fact, you can go to our website for an update on how we\u2019re doing in attempting to take advantage of the matching-gift funds. I haven\u2019t seen the latest numbers; but they are available, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCan we ask you to help us finish out the month of May with a strong push to reach our goal of $1.1 million raised this month? If you can make a donation of any amount, please do so. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014donate online; or call 1-800- FL-TODAY to donate. Or you can mail your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about why God might take us into a season where we experience profound depression\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it happened to David \/ it\u2019s happened to many followers of Christ throughout the years, including people like Charles Spurgeon. What is God up to when he takes us into those seasons? We\u2019ll explore that tomorrow with Dr. Charles Hodges. I hope you can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/304514","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304514"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304514"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304514"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304514"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=304514"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=304514"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=304514"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}