{"id":304512,"date":"2017-05-19T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-05-19T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/overcoming-debt\/"},"modified":"2017-05-19T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-05-19T15:00:00","slug":"overcoming-debt","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/overcoming-debt\/","title":{"rendered":"Overcoming Debt"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Russ and Julie Crosson look closely at the problem of debt. The Crossons tell how they paid off their home early. Russ shares some basic principles for living within your means.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-05-19.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:32:39","filesize":"29.89M","filesize_raw":"31345752","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2807,2851,2808],"tags":[5342,4525],"podcast_series":[8012],"cwp_profile":[9337,9336],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304512","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-engagements-and-weddings","category-finances","category-newlyweds","tag-budget","tag-finances","podcast_series-eight-important-money-decisions","cwp_profile-julie-crosson","cwp_profile-russ-crosson","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304512\/overcoming-debt","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304512\/overcoming-debt","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"NcOE09VanZ\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/overcoming-debt\/\">Overcoming Debt<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/overcoming-debt\/embed\/#?secret=NcOE09VanZ\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Overcoming Debt&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"NcOE09VanZ\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-05-19.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-05-19.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Most couples, who are starting married life today, are bringing into their marriage financial debt\u2014things like student loans. Russ Crosson says, \u201cYou need a plan to begin to address that.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>The first principle is: \u201cAlright; build a budget on one income. Save that second income and use that residual, after taxes, to begin to whittle away the debt.\u201d\u00a0 But what happens to young couples is: \u201cHey, we\u2019re both making this. Man, it\u2019s great. We can eat out. We can go on vacation. We can buy these fancy clothes. We can buy a car. Then, we get a tax refund\u2014we spend that on going to the mountains.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd remember, that debt will only compound on you. So, it\u2019s getting started on the right path. The right path is: \u201cLive on one income, even if you are both working. Live frugally, even when you don\u2019t have to.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, May 19<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. What do you do when your income doesn\u2019t match your outflow in marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ll talk about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Friday edition. So, we\u2019re going to talk more about money; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We\u2019re going to talk about debt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Debt? Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let\u2019s cut to the chase. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>That\u2019s non-money. [Laughter] It\u2019s non-money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And that\u2019s Russ Crosson, the President of Ronald Blue &amp; Company. You know a little something about non-money. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019ve run into some folks who had non-money; haven\u2019t you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Yes; a lot of non-money out here. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>His wife Julie joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Julie: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Here\u2019s the question\u2014you\u2019ve written a book called <em>8 Important Money Decisions for Every Couple<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cForeword by Dennis Rainey\u201d\u2014it says so right at the top. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I don\u2019t write many forewords. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No; you don\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I don\u2019t have time to do it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>And we appreciate you writing that one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014but I appreciate this one for really a couple of reasons. One is\u2014it\u2019s biblical in its worldview\u2014you come out of the Scriptures \/ you\u2019re basing it upon that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou give leadership to Ronald Blue &amp; Company\u2014they\u2019ve always done that at that company. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What you said to me when the book came out\u2014you said, \u201cI like this, but my name should have been in bigger, bolder print at the top.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 Don\u2019t you remember saying that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I did not say that!\u00a0 [Laughter] And the other reason\u2014before Bob interrupted\u2014was really the integrity, Russ, that you and Julie bring to the ministry of money and helping people. You have a Kingdom mindset, and you want to see people send it on ahead. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to talk about debt today; but I also want to talk about giving, because I don\u2019t think we\u2019re talking enough about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let\u2019s cut to the chase on debt. Do you have any debt?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>We do not. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>None?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Zero?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>None, like in zero. And that doesn\u2019t mean \u201cexcept for my car and home mortgage.\u201d We used to ask people that question, Dennis: \u201cDo you have any debt?\u201d\u00a0 And they\u2019d go, \u201cNo; except my home.\u201d Now, they\u2019ve added \u201c\u2026except my car.\u201d They\u2019ve\u2014we kind of live in a country where there are just certain things that you don\u2019t consider debt\u2014and the mortgage is one of them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cWell, my school debt,\u201d that\u2019s the third thing that\u2019s going to get thrown in pretty quick. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, now, consumer debt is coming close behind\u2014\u201c\u2026except for my $30,000 in consumer debt.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201c\u2026in credit card debt.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>But let me come back, Dennis. Obviously, I\u2019ve lived for a few decades. But I think it\u2019s important to understand that\u2014when Julie and I bought our house in the mid-80s, and I was working in the financial services industry, and looking at the impact of debt on people\u2019s lives, and marriages, and so forth\u2014we just made a commitment, as a couple, that we were going to aggressively pay off the debt, including our house. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you didn\u2019t pay cash for your house when you bought it in the mid-80s?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>No; no. I want to make sure people know that we had a mortgage; but instead of putting a whole bunch in retirement and going on fancy vacations, we said, \u201cYou know, if we get this house paid off by the time the kids are in their elementary school years or early junior high years, we\u2019ll get a lot more options.\u201d\u00a0 We were looking for options and flexibility. That\u2019s the thing about debt\u2014debt restricts your options. We got the house paid off in the mid-90s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Hang on\u2014time out. The average mortgage for a house\u201430 years; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Right; because that makes you extend it out there and be able to live, maybe, higher than you should because you have a lower payment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And if you do 30 years, you\u2019re going to wind up paying three to four times the value of the house; right?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014over that 30-year period?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, did you have a 15-year mortgage on your house?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You paid it off quicker than that; did you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Yes; I paid it off quicker. Yes; I would encourage people to pay the price and sacrifice to do a 15-year mortgage\u2014then, aggressively pay it\u2014but it\u2019s a mindset. It\u2019s okay to be out of debt. It\u2019s like we live in a country where it\u2019s like, \u201cNo; you\u2019ve got to have debt.\u201d\u00a0 I would say, \u201cNo; you might have to have debt to get started\u2014started with the home or whatever\u2014but then, the idea of paying it off is okay.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd there are a couple reasons. One is it\u2019s not a bad investment. When you pay it off, you get rid of that interest\u2014that\u2019s a guaranteed return. Some people forget that. They\u2019ll give us money to invest in bonds\u2014they\u2019ll say, \u201cHey, Russ; here, I want you to manage this money and put it in bonds.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019ll say, \u201cWell, do you have a mortgage?\u201d \u201cYes.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWell, what are you paying on that?\u201d \u201cWell, three or four percent...\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWell, I can\u2019t earn you three or four percent. Why don\u2019t you pay that off and earn the three or four?\u201d\u00a0 Their head starts doing this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are two good reasons to pay off debt. One is\u2014it\u2019s not a bad investment alternative. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber two, the peace of mind and freedom that comes\u2014and I would say this\u2014number two reason is bigger than the first one. You just can\u2019t understand the positive impact. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I think, if we go back to \u201908\/\u201909, there were a lot of people that wished they had followed that advice when they could have. People could have paid their homes off\u2014you know, the market is up \/ their cash balances are up\u2014but they bought the lie that everything is going to continue linearly. They forgot that things cycle; and then, a lot of people\u2014as you read about in the paper\u2014are underwater on their homes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me ask you a very practical question, because I had a friend who asked me this question\u2014a young man, who had been married for two or three years. He and his wife had their first baby, and they were renting a house. He had about $10,000 in student loans still to pay off. It just so happened that a relative decided to give them a gift of $10,000. So, he calls me and he says: \u201cShould I pay off the college loan, or should I make a down payment and get us into a house?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd he said: \u201cNow, the college loan\u2014the rates are like super low. I don\u2019t have to pay any\u2014maybe, it\u2019s better to go ahead and put the money into the house <em>now<\/em> and just pay that off. I\u2019m paying one or the other off over time. Which is the best thing to do?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know how I answered him. How would you have answered that question?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Well, there are other questions I would have asked. Was the $10,000 going to be 20 percent down on the house?\u00a0 Or are you going to have mortgage insurance and other things involved there?\u00a0 Can your budget handle the increased cost of owning a house?\u2014 which people sometimes underestimate\u2014you know, upkeep, repairs, taxes, insurance\u2014all those kinds of things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, it\u2019s not just a binary question: \u201cDo I pay off the student loan, or do I put [$]10,000 on the house?\u201d\u00a0 The issue is: \u201cCan I really afford a house?\u201d\u00a0 Then, if so, that means you have [$]10,000 less debt on your house; and you just need to begin to approach paying off the student loans. Bob, there is no simple question with a simple answer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the big idea here is\u2014before you buy a house, which is one of the biggest decisions a young couple will make\u2014the world would tell you: \u201cStretch. You\u2019re always going to\u2014income is always going to go up.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cDon\u2019t buy it on two incomes,\u201d\u2014that would be the first thing I would tell you. Try to make a decision to put 20 percent down. Build some disciplines to help you kind of get the amount of house you buy surrounded with some parameters. Then, realize that you want to\u2014as you save money, some of that ought to be earmarked to pay off debt \/ student loan. Usually, then, you pay off the highest-interest debt first\u2014you guys know the waterfall illustration. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think the biggest thing we would say to people is: \u201cYou\u2019re probably going to have debt to start a house; just don\u2019t buy too much house.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Then: \u201cWhen you have savings, it is okay to begin to whittle away at the debt; and that means all the debt.\u201d You know, Julie and I\u2014early on, we didn\u2019t have student loans\u2014but we would have paid those off first. Then, we would have started attacking the mortgage. So, the idea is you can move toward being debt-free by\u2014in your 40s\u2014if you just build the discipline to get started.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The average\u2014and by the way, I said to him\u2014without all the financial analysis that you did\u2014I said: \u201cAll I can tell you is, if it were me, it would sure feel really good to have that student loan all paid off and be done with it. And if that means you\u2019ve got to wait a couple of years to get into a house\u2014you\u2019re in a rental house now that\u2019s serving you just fine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cWhy don\u2019t you just stay with that and start saving the money you would have paid off on the debt toward that down payment on the house?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Russ: <\/strong>You maybe ought to get a job as a financial advisor there, Bob. That\u2019s pretty good. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Be careful\u2014be careful here\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ten thousand dollars on student\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014talk to Mary Ann first. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014yes\u2014but $10,000 on a student loan is <em>nothing<\/em> today. The average kid, coming out of college, has got somewhere between $25 and $30,000 in student loans. They are getting married and buying a house on two incomes. I mean, a lot of people are starting off life <em>way<\/em> behind the eight ball, financially. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Well, they really are. And let me just\u2014that\u2019s why you\u2019ve got to come back and say, \u201cWhat are some principles here?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey may get out with a student loan, and it is what it is. Then, you get married. Instead of both of you making [$]30,000\u2014you\u2019ve got [$]60,000\u2014it\u2019s like: \u201cOkay; let\u2019s go on a ski vacation. Let\u2019s have a great time and live it up.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first principle is: \u201cAlright; build a budget on one income. Save that second income; and use that residual, after taxes, to begin to whittle away the debt. Hopefully, you may have a year or two before you have kids\u2014you can get rid of that debt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what happens to young couples is: \u201cHey, we\u2019re both making this. Man, it is great! We can eat out. We can go on vacation. We can buy these fancy clothes. We can buy a car. Then, we get a tax refund\u2014we spend that on going to the mountains.\u201d\u00a0 So, Bob, you are exactly right. You\u2019ve heard the principle: \u201cThe path\u2014is getting started on the right path. And the right path is live on one income, even if you are both working, and live frugally\u2014even when you don\u2019t have to.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>And remember that debt will only compound on you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can get it turned around, sooner than later, you\u2019re going to be better off, long term. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I have to ask your wife this question, because you grew up in an affluent home. You married a school teacher. He starting you on this path: \u201cLive frugally \/ one income\u201d kind of thing. Was that hard for you?\u00a0 I mean, you were used to being able to go down to Nordstrom\u2019s if you want to go to Nordstrom\u2019s and buy something really nice; right? [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Julie: <\/strong>Except for my parents were very frugal. So, the role model I had was\u2014my mother was extremely frugal. Even though my dad made a good bit, she always felt that to spend as little as possible was the best thing to help him. So, I never saw that really as an option. I kind of went more that way myself; but what I saw modeled was that she was <em>always <\/em>making sure that whatever they spent\u2014it was something that was needed\u2014he agreed with it. So, I didn\u2019t really have that coming into the marriage. That didn\u2019t really seem to be a problem. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You guys have been mentoring younger couples, now, for the past half a dozen years; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Julie: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What do you think is the biggest mistake or the biggest mistakes couples are making around this subject of debt?\u00a0 Is it they just buy into the lie that the culture has\u2014that debt is like gravity\u2014you have to have to have it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>I think, Dennis, that\u2019s the underlying premise\u2014is: \u201cHey, it just is. We\u2019re going to have it.\u201d\u00a0 I think, for the most part, they\u2019ve never even entertained the idea: \u201cThat\u2019s really debt on my house, and that I, at some point, should build in a plan\u2014not 30 years\u2014but a plan to begin to get rid of that so I have some peace of mind and freedom, here, in the next 10 or 15 years.\u201d I think that\u2019s probably the biggest thing\u2014is they just don\u2019t consider\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd here is the other thing\u2014there are no unattractive temptations; you know?\u00a0 Their 401k is matching them. So, what we see\u2014here is what we see a lot of\u2014[$]100,000 in the 401k \/ [$]80,000 in credit card debt. So, the other problem we see with couples is\u2014since they don\u2019t have an overall plan, they\u2019re really over-spending; but they\u2019re funding retirement\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014which you can\u2019t buy kids\u2019 clothes and do braces out of retirement funds. They\u2019re accumulating debt. That\u2019s really a bad direction. We see that a lot\u2014no money in the bank, a lot of money in retirement\u2014and that really puts stress on the marriage. So, I\u2019m kind of\u2014I know I\u2019m a financial guy and understand compounding and all of that, but let me tell you\u2014retirement has exacerbated the pace of life for couples. It\u2019s really compounded the problem of getting a financial house in order. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, a guy, who\u2019s 26 years old, married for a couple of years, should he be putting $20 a month into some kind of a Roth, IRA, or something?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Well, if he has got plenty of margin\u2014he\u2019s able to save for the house down payment\u2014then, I\u2019m not against putting money in retirement\u2014but what\u2019s happened is\u2014most of them are putting into retirement, and aren\u2019t saving for the down payment, and they are buying a house with no money down\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And then, they are living\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>\u2014and then they are paying mortgage insurance and all that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014beyond their means with the credit card\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and running those numbers up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Russ: <\/strong>I think, if I had to say it\u2014is buying too much house is the biggest problem for young couples, and it\u2019s the pressure of that retirement funding; because you read all the advertisements and it is like, \u201cHey, everybody does this.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would say, \u201cWell, you need to think about that.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>And I\u2019m not against retirement\u2014Julie and I\u2014there were years, early on, that we said: \u201cOkay; I\u2019m not funding retirement. I\u2019m going to pay down the house.\u201d\u00a0 And I don\u2019t have any regrets that we paid off the house early. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And the truth is\u2014a part of your retirement is wrapped up in the value of your home; isn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>It is, and we enjoyed the trip. I had flexibility. You know, once that house was paid off, then, if my income went down one year, I didn\u2019t get all stressed out. I think that\u2019s the other thing about debt, Dennis\u2014is that debt restricts your options. The reason you get out of debt is to have flexibility and to have options\u2014whether it\u2019s to coach your kid\u2019s soccer team or do whatever. That\u2019s why it\u2019s so important to really relook at that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I mentioned I wanted to get to the giving question you\u2019ve got in your book. I\u2019ll set it up this way\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u20142013 was a milestone year for Barbara and me. We got out of all debt as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Well, congratulations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It took us a lot longer than it did you from what you just shared earlier, but we got out of all debt. As a result, in 2013, we were able to give more than we have ever given in our 41 years of marriage together. When we do get out of debt, that does increase our options; but if we don\u2019t have a biblical view of giving, we\u2019re going to go spend the money on ourselves and increase our own standard of living. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And a believer \/ a follower of Christ, if he reads the Bible, needs to be thinking about sending it on ahead. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019re saying with all the extra money you had, you didn\u2019t lay it up on earth where moth and rust can destroy it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, there was the temptation to do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There really was. In fact, I kept kind of going through that verse and that passage: \u201cAm I going to send it ahead, or am I going to spend it on us \/ on me?\u201d\u00a0 And you speak of all the retirement\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Oh!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014advertisements on TV. There are a lot of advertisements, as well, for \u201cYou can have it your way.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201cAnd you can enjoy it right now. Go out and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Or \u201cYou deserve it.\u201d\u00a0 So worldly \/ so welcome\u2014the credit card advertisements. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>And I want to affirm you, Dennis. That was great that you guys got out of debt and increased your giving. And giving is an integral part of any plan. We would encourage people that they build that into their plan to make sure they are spending less than they make. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGiving, paying their living expenses, paying off debt, and paying their taxes\u2014those are the four uses of money. When you get out of debt and you have cash, you\u2019ll always be more generous. When you don\u2019t have the debt, and you actually have some cash and it\u2019s not all in retirement, then, you can meet needs\u2014you come across people who have needs. Giving is a very interesting discussion when it comes to couples. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have to tell you a story. I didn\u2019t grow up giving; you know?\u00a0 I grew up and maybe see a dollar put in the plate as it when by on Sunday. Then, I met Julie. She\u2019d grown up understanding giving and\u2014like you said\u2014understanding the fact we need to send it on ahead. I had not seen that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, that was a source of a little conflict, early on, in our marriage. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Well, I said: \u201cOkay; I don\u2019t think we\u2019re going to support this guy in Phoenix. I don\u2019t even know the guy!\u201d\u00a0 So, that\u2019s why it is one of the questions in the book, because something as good as giving can cause conflict in marriage. I mean, I\u2019m sure you and Barbara were agreed on your giving\u2014many couples\u2014that\u2019s a source of conflict. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I remember a story, where I was sitting down with a husband and wife. She was very frustrated, because they had [$]25,000 in consumer debt. Two weeks before, the missionaries had come to church and had shared their story. She had watched her husband put $100 in the offering plate for the missionaries. She is thinking to herself, \u201cWe\u2019ve got $25,000 in debt.\u201d He\u2019s thinking to himself, \u201cThe missionaries are sleeping on dirt floors in Africa to tell people about Jesus.\u201d\u00a0 Who is right?\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Don\u2019t you love Bob?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Yes, okay; I\u2019m going to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Binary choice\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>\u2014let Julie\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014a right and wrong choice. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>\u2014answer that question\u2014[Laughter]\u2014no! What you really illustrated there, Bob, was the very issue of why money is so volatile and why you have to go back to what we talked about earlier\u2014and that\u2019s be able to talk about it; because he\u2019s thinking, \u201cI see a need,\u201d \/ she\u2019s thinking: \u201cMy security\u2014how dare you give that money when my security is being violated?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cthreatened?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>\u2014yes: \u201c\u2026threatened, over here with this debt?\u201d\u00a0 You understand how both of them are thinking; but the issue is: \u201cHow are they going to come together so she\u2019s not frustrated about the $100 that he\u2019s given?\u201d She can maybe appreciate his heart\u2014that\u2019s a good thing and affirm that\u2014but he needs to also affirm her need to have security and apologize and say, \u201cWe\u2019ve got to attack this, because I know that\u2019s a stress point for you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, the couple that\u2019s putting together a spending plan\u2014and they\u2019ve got $20,000 in consumer debt\u2014do they put giving in their spending plan before they pay off their consumer debt?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Well, I think you always need to give to acknowledge God\u2019s ownership. How much that is\u2014it\u2019s interesting, in the New Testament, we don\u2019t see a tithe\u2014we see: \u201cGive as you\u2019ve been prospered.\u201d I tell people that 10 percent is a good place to start, because it\u2019s easy to just take it from there and not reduce my lifestyle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>This is where you need a third party to kind of look over your shoulder. Before you cut your giving back to fund that consumer debt, you need to really look at the lifestyle, because there are probably some places you can sacrifice\u2014you know, eating out\u2014whatever it is\u2014to pay that down. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe issue is\u2014you\u2019ve got to put something in all the buckets. I need to give to acknowledge ownership. I need to pay my living expenses. I need to begin to whittle down the debt, and I need to pay taxes. But that\u2019s why you have to look at it comprehensively. We see couples, all the time\u2014that they may get a big tax refund. Well, that\u2019s money that could have gone into the budget and other things. So, they really were saving\u2014it\u2019s they left the money with the government. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Then, they get it in April; and they spend it. So, it\u2019s a very complex thing\u2014working all those together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I would never encourage anybody to quit giving totally. I would discourage them from coming off the tithe until they\u2019ve really had somebody look at their living expenses. I think, in 30 some years of counseling, I\u2019ve only had one time where I told a couple, \u201cYes; you need to come off the tithe,\u201d because I saw their budget was as tight as it could be. They had this debt. They could only afford to give, maybe, 5 percent because\u2014let\u2019s flip that around\u2014some people are borrowing to give and don\u2019t even know it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>That\u2019s why it\u2019s all integrated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBack to your illustration, let\u2019s say the guy decides to give [$]20,000 to the missionary; but if he had to borrow the [$]20,000\u2014you know, there has got to be a balance there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to come back to an earlier illustration that we kind of moved past very quickly. It\u2019s to you, Julie\u2014in the family that you grew up in\u2014your mom and dad had a giving spirit. What would you say is the number one thing you learned from them\u2014what they passed on to you about giving?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Julie: <\/strong>I\u2019d have to say it\u2019s the joy of giving; because what I saw was they <em>wanted<\/em> to give, at least, 50 percent of their income. So, that was their\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Now, wait, wait; wait. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You said, \u201c5-0\u201d\u201450 percent?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>50?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Julie: <\/strong>50 percent. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They wanted to do it, or they did do it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Julie: <\/strong>No\u2014well, yes; they did do it\u2014that was their goal \/ that was their desire. Giving breaks the power of money. What I saw in their lives\u2014as they wanted to give more and more to the Lord\u2019s work\u2014the joy that came between the two of them\u2014just on the same page. They loved giving\u2014they loved seeing what God was doing. I had a very positive role model, there, that giving was a <em>wonderful<\/em> thing. It was something I wanted to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Giving is a great way to walk by faith. And I just want to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d to you, Russ and Julie\u2014both of you\u2014for the great ministry you\u2019re having through Ronald Blue &amp; Company, down in Atlanta, and across the nation. Really\u2014how you\u2019ve directed a lot of folks to be better stewards of their finances and a lot of money toward Kingdom work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and you\u2019re helping a lot of couples, too, with this book. I really think this is one of those books that ought to be a part of premarital preparation or\u2014at the very least, in the first year of marriage\u2014couples ought to be sitting down and having these conversations. It\u2019s better if you have the conversations before you get married; but after you\u2019re married, you\u2019re still going to have to figure some of these things out and make sure you\u2019re on the same page when it comes to issues like we\u2019ve talked about today\u2014issues like debt, or about giving, or about savings, or about what standard of living you\u2019re aiming for in your marriage. These are all important conversations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou help couples have them when they get a copy of your book, <em>8 Important Money Decisions for Every Couple<\/em>. You can order the book by going to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329 to order the book. Again, that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, our commitment, here, at FamilyLife is that in all we do we want to be both practical and biblical with the content that we provide\u2014everything that\u2019s available online at FamilyLifeToday.com \/ the articles, the videos, the audio content; our events; our resources; and of course, this daily program. Our goal is to effectively develop godly marriages and families by pointing you to what the Scriptures say and, then, helping you with examples of how that can be fleshed out in your marriage and in your family. Our desire is to reach more people every year with this message. That\u2019s your desire, as well\u2014I know, for many of you\u2014because those of you who help support this ministry, that\u2019s what you\u2019re making possible every time you make a donation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou are helping equip more people with God\u2019s design for marriage every time you make a donation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDuring the month of May, our goal is to raise $1.1 million so that we can continue with a number of projects that are ongoing, here, at FamilyLife. During the summer months, we want to make sure there\u2019s no slowdown on those projects; and if we\u2019re able to raise the funds necessary here in May, we think we can make that happen. So we\u2019re asking you to go to FamilyLifeToday.com and make as generous a contribution as you possibly can this month. Or you can call to donate\u2014our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. And if you\u2019d prefer, you can mail your donation to us\u2014our address is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd with that, we\u2019re wrapped up for this week. Hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend. And I hope you can join us back on Monday. We\u2019re going to have a very interesting conversation about depression and bipolar disorder and the impact that can have on a family when somebody is experiencing either of those two conditions. We\u2019ll talk with Dr. Charles Hodges about that Monday. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\"><u>donating today<\/u><\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:32:39"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["29.89M"],"filesize_raw":["31345752"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304512.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304512.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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and Julie Crosson look closely at the problem of debt. The Crossons tell how they paid off their home early. Russ shares some basic principles for living within your means.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-05-19.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Most couples, who are starting married life today, are bringing into their marriage financial debt\u2014things like student loans. Russ Crosson says, \u201cYou need a plan to begin to address that.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>The first principle is: \u201cAlright; build a budget on one income. Save that second income and use that residual, after taxes, to begin to whittle away the debt.\u201d\u00a0 But what happens to young couples is: \u201cHey, we\u2019re both making this. Man, it\u2019s great. We can eat out. We can go on vacation. We can buy these fancy clothes. We can buy a car. Then, we get a tax refund\u2014we spend that on going to the mountains.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd remember, that debt will only compound on you. So, it\u2019s getting started on the right path. The right path is: \u201cLive on one income, even if you are both working. Live frugally, even when you don\u2019t have to.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, May 19<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. What do you do when your income doesn\u2019t match your outflow in marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ll talk about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Friday edition. So, we\u2019re going to talk more about money; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We\u2019re going to talk about debt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Debt? Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let\u2019s cut to the chase. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>That\u2019s non-money. [Laughter] It\u2019s non-money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And that\u2019s Russ Crosson, the President of Ronald Blue &amp; Company. You know a little something about non-money. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019ve run into some folks who had non-money; haven\u2019t you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Yes; a lot of non-money out here. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>His wife Julie joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Julie: <\/strong>Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Here\u2019s the question\u2014you\u2019ve written a book called <em>8 Important Money Decisions for Every Couple<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cForeword by Dennis Rainey\u201d\u2014it says so right at the top. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I don\u2019t write many forewords. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No; you don\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I don\u2019t have time to do it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>And we appreciate you writing that one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014but I appreciate this one for really a couple of reasons. One is\u2014it\u2019s biblical in its worldview\u2014you come out of the Scriptures \/ you\u2019re basing it upon that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou give leadership to Ronald Blue &amp; Company\u2014they\u2019ve always done that at that company. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What you said to me when the book came out\u2014you said, \u201cI like this, but my name should have been in bigger, bolder print at the top.\u201d\u00a0 [Laughter]\u00a0 Don\u2019t you remember saying that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I did not say that!\u00a0 [Laughter] And the other reason\u2014before Bob interrupted\u2014was really the integrity, Russ, that you and Julie bring to the ministry of money and helping people. You have a Kingdom mindset, and you want to see people send it on ahead. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to talk about debt today; but I also want to talk about giving, because I don\u2019t think we\u2019re talking enough about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let\u2019s cut to the chase on debt. Do you have any debt?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>We do not. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>None?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Zero?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>None, like in zero. And that doesn\u2019t mean \u201cexcept for my car and home mortgage.\u201d We used to ask people that question, Dennis: \u201cDo you have any debt?\u201d\u00a0 And they\u2019d go, \u201cNo; except my home.\u201d Now, they\u2019ve added \u201c\u2026except my car.\u201d They\u2019ve\u2014we kind of live in a country where there are just certain things that you don\u2019t consider debt\u2014and the mortgage is one of them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cWell, my school debt,\u201d that\u2019s the third thing that\u2019s going to get thrown in pretty quick. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, now, consumer debt is coming close behind\u2014\u201c\u2026except for my $30,000 in consumer debt.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201c\u2026in credit card debt.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>But let me come back, Dennis. Obviously, I\u2019ve lived for a few decades. But I think it\u2019s important to understand that\u2014when Julie and I bought our house in the mid-80s, and I was working in the financial services industry, and looking at the impact of debt on people\u2019s lives, and marriages, and so forth\u2014we just made a commitment, as a couple, that we were going to aggressively pay off the debt, including our house. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you didn\u2019t pay cash for your house when you bought it in the mid-80s?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>No; no. I want to make sure people know that we had a mortgage; but instead of putting a whole bunch in retirement and going on fancy vacations, we said, \u201cYou know, if we get this house paid off by the time the kids are in their elementary school years or early junior high years, we\u2019ll get a lot more options.\u201d\u00a0 We were looking for options and flexibility. That\u2019s the thing about debt\u2014debt restricts your options. We got the house paid off in the mid-90s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Hang on\u2014time out. The average mortgage for a house\u201430 years; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Right; because that makes you extend it out there and be able to live, maybe, higher than you should because you have a lower payment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And if you do 30 years, you\u2019re going to wind up paying three to four times the value of the house; right?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014over that 30-year period?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, did you have a 15-year mortgage on your house?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You paid it off quicker than that; did you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Yes; I paid it off quicker. Yes; I would encourage people to pay the price and sacrifice to do a 15-year mortgage\u2014then, aggressively pay it\u2014but it\u2019s a mindset. It\u2019s okay to be out of debt. It\u2019s like we live in a country where it\u2019s like, \u201cNo; you\u2019ve got to have debt.\u201d\u00a0 I would say, \u201cNo; you might have to have debt to get started\u2014started with the home or whatever\u2014but then, the idea of paying it off is okay.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd there are a couple reasons. One is it\u2019s not a bad investment. When you pay it off, you get rid of that interest\u2014that\u2019s a guaranteed return. Some people forget that. They\u2019ll give us money to invest in bonds\u2014they\u2019ll say, \u201cHey, Russ; here, I want you to manage this money and put it in bonds.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019ll say, \u201cWell, do you have a mortgage?\u201d \u201cYes.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWell, what are you paying on that?\u201d \u201cWell, three or four percent...\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWell, I can\u2019t earn you three or four percent. Why don\u2019t you pay that off and earn the three or four?\u201d\u00a0 Their head starts doing this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are two good reasons to pay off debt. One is\u2014it\u2019s not a bad investment alternative. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber two, the peace of mind and freedom that comes\u2014and I would say this\u2014number two reason is bigger than the first one. You just can\u2019t understand the positive impact. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I think, if we go back to \u201908\/\u201909, there were a lot of people that wished they had followed that advice when they could have. People could have paid their homes off\u2014you know, the market is up \/ their cash balances are up\u2014but they bought the lie that everything is going to continue linearly. They forgot that things cycle; and then, a lot of people\u2014as you read about in the paper\u2014are underwater on their homes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me ask you a very practical question, because I had a friend who asked me this question\u2014a young man, who had been married for two or three years. He and his wife had their first baby, and they were renting a house. He had about $10,000 in student loans still to pay off. It just so happened that a relative decided to give them a gift of $10,000. So, he calls me and he says: \u201cShould I pay off the college loan, or should I make a down payment and get us into a house?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd he said: \u201cNow, the college loan\u2014the rates are like super low. I don\u2019t have to pay any\u2014maybe, it\u2019s better to go ahead and put the money into the house <em>now<\/em> and just pay that off. I\u2019m paying one or the other off over time. Which is the best thing to do?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know how I answered him. How would you have answered that question?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Well, there are other questions I would have asked. Was the $10,000 going to be 20 percent down on the house?\u00a0 Or are you going to have mortgage insurance and other things involved there?\u00a0 Can your budget handle the increased cost of owning a house?\u2014 which people sometimes underestimate\u2014you know, upkeep, repairs, taxes, insurance\u2014all those kinds of things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, it\u2019s not just a binary question: \u201cDo I pay off the student loan, or do I put [$]10,000 on the house?\u201d\u00a0 The issue is: \u201cCan I really afford a house?\u201d\u00a0 Then, if so, that means you have [$]10,000 less debt on your house; and you just need to begin to approach paying off the student loans. Bob, there is no simple question with a simple answer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the big idea here is\u2014before you buy a house, which is one of the biggest decisions a young couple will make\u2014the world would tell you: \u201cStretch. You\u2019re always going to\u2014income is always going to go up.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cDon\u2019t buy it on two incomes,\u201d\u2014that would be the first thing I would tell you. Try to make a decision to put 20 percent down. Build some disciplines to help you kind of get the amount of house you buy surrounded with some parameters. Then, realize that you want to\u2014as you save money, some of that ought to be earmarked to pay off debt \/ student loan. Usually, then, you pay off the highest-interest debt first\u2014you guys know the waterfall illustration. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think the biggest thing we would say to people is: \u201cYou\u2019re probably going to have debt to start a house; just don\u2019t buy too much house.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Then: \u201cWhen you have savings, it is okay to begin to whittle away at the debt; and that means all the debt.\u201d You know, Julie and I\u2014early on, we didn\u2019t have student loans\u2014but we would have paid those off first. Then, we would have started attacking the mortgage. So, the idea is you can move toward being debt-free by\u2014in your 40s\u2014if you just build the discipline to get started.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The average\u2014and by the way, I said to him\u2014without all the financial analysis that you did\u2014I said: \u201cAll I can tell you is, if it were me, it would sure feel really good to have that student loan all paid off and be done with it. And if that means you\u2019ve got to wait a couple of years to get into a house\u2014you\u2019re in a rental house now that\u2019s serving you just fine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cWhy don\u2019t you just stay with that and start saving the money you would have paid off on the debt toward that down payment on the house?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Russ: <\/strong>You maybe ought to get a job as a financial advisor there, Bob. That\u2019s pretty good. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Be careful\u2014be careful here\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ten thousand dollars on student\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014talk to Mary Ann first. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014yes\u2014but $10,000 on a student loan is <em>nothing<\/em> today. The average kid, coming out of college, has got somewhere between $25 and $30,000 in student loans. They are getting married and buying a house on two incomes. I mean, a lot of people are starting off life <em>way<\/em> behind the eight ball, financially. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Well, they really are. And let me just\u2014that\u2019s why you\u2019ve got to come back and say, \u201cWhat are some principles here?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey may get out with a student loan, and it is what it is. Then, you get married. Instead of both of you making [$]30,000\u2014you\u2019ve got [$]60,000\u2014it\u2019s like: \u201cOkay; let\u2019s go on a ski vacation. Let\u2019s have a great time and live it up.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first principle is: \u201cAlright; build a budget on one income. Save that second income; and use that residual, after taxes, to begin to whittle away the debt. Hopefully, you may have a year or two before you have kids\u2014you can get rid of that debt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what happens to young couples is: \u201cHey, we\u2019re both making this. Man, it is great! We can eat out. We can go on vacation. We can buy these fancy clothes. We can buy a car. Then, we get a tax refund\u2014we spend that on going to the mountains.\u201d\u00a0 So, Bob, you are exactly right. You\u2019ve heard the principle: \u201cThe path\u2014is getting started on the right path. And the right path is live on one income, even if you are both working, and live frugally\u2014even when you don\u2019t have to.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>And remember that debt will only compound on you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can get it turned around, sooner than later, you\u2019re going to be better off, long term. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I have to ask your wife this question, because you grew up in an affluent home. You married a school teacher. He starting you on this path: \u201cLive frugally \/ one income\u201d kind of thing. Was that hard for you?\u00a0 I mean, you were used to being able to go down to Nordstrom\u2019s if you want to go to Nordstrom\u2019s and buy something really nice; right? [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Julie: <\/strong>Except for my parents were very frugal. So, the role model I had was\u2014my mother was extremely frugal. Even though my dad made a good bit, she always felt that to spend as little as possible was the best thing to help him. So, I never saw that really as an option. I kind of went more that way myself; but what I saw modeled was that she was <em>always <\/em>making sure that whatever they spent\u2014it was something that was needed\u2014he agreed with it. So, I didn\u2019t really have that coming into the marriage. That didn\u2019t really seem to be a problem. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You guys have been mentoring younger couples, now, for the past half a dozen years; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Julie: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>What do you think is the biggest mistake or the biggest mistakes couples are making around this subject of debt?\u00a0 Is it they just buy into the lie that the culture has\u2014that debt is like gravity\u2014you have to have to have it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>I think, Dennis, that\u2019s the underlying premise\u2014is: \u201cHey, it just is. We\u2019re going to have it.\u201d\u00a0 I think, for the most part, they\u2019ve never even entertained the idea: \u201cThat\u2019s really debt on my house, and that I, at some point, should build in a plan\u2014not 30 years\u2014but a plan to begin to get rid of that so I have some peace of mind and freedom, here, in the next 10 or 15 years.\u201d I think that\u2019s probably the biggest thing\u2014is they just don\u2019t consider\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd here is the other thing\u2014there are no unattractive temptations; you know?\u00a0 Their 401k is matching them. So, what we see\u2014here is what we see a lot of\u2014[$]100,000 in the 401k \/ [$]80,000 in credit card debt. So, the other problem we see with couples is\u2014since they don\u2019t have an overall plan, they\u2019re really over-spending; but they\u2019re funding retirement\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014which you can\u2019t buy kids\u2019 clothes and do braces out of retirement funds. They\u2019re accumulating debt. That\u2019s really a bad direction. We see that a lot\u2014no money in the bank, a lot of money in retirement\u2014and that really puts stress on the marriage. So, I\u2019m kind of\u2014I know I\u2019m a financial guy and understand compounding and all of that, but let me tell you\u2014retirement has exacerbated the pace of life for couples. It\u2019s really compounded the problem of getting a financial house in order. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, a guy, who\u2019s 26 years old, married for a couple of years, should he be putting $20 a month into some kind of a Roth, IRA, or something?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Well, if he has got plenty of margin\u2014he\u2019s able to save for the house down payment\u2014then, I\u2019m not against putting money in retirement\u2014but what\u2019s happened is\u2014most of them are putting into retirement, and aren\u2019t saving for the down payment, and they are buying a house with no money down\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And then, they are living\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>\u2014and then they are paying mortgage insurance and all that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014beyond their means with the credit card\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and running those numbers up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Russ: <\/strong>I think, if I had to say it\u2014is buying too much house is the biggest problem for young couples, and it\u2019s the pressure of that retirement funding; because you read all the advertisements and it is like, \u201cHey, everybody does this.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would say, \u201cWell, you need to think about that.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>And I\u2019m not against retirement\u2014Julie and I\u2014there were years, early on, that we said: \u201cOkay; I\u2019m not funding retirement. I\u2019m going to pay down the house.\u201d\u00a0 And I don\u2019t have any regrets that we paid off the house early. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And the truth is\u2014a part of your retirement is wrapped up in the value of your home; isn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>It is, and we enjoyed the trip. I had flexibility. You know, once that house was paid off, then, if my income went down one year, I didn\u2019t get all stressed out. I think that\u2019s the other thing about debt, Dennis\u2014is that debt restricts your options. The reason you get out of debt is to have flexibility and to have options\u2014whether it\u2019s to coach your kid\u2019s soccer team or do whatever. That\u2019s why it\u2019s so important to really relook at that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I mentioned I wanted to get to the giving question you\u2019ve got in your book. I\u2019ll set it up this way\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u20142013 was a milestone year for Barbara and me. We got out of all debt as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Well, congratulations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It took us a lot longer than it did you from what you just shared earlier, but we got out of all debt. As a result, in 2013, we were able to give more than we have ever given in our 41 years of marriage together. When we do get out of debt, that does increase our options; but if we don\u2019t have a biblical view of giving, we\u2019re going to go spend the money on ourselves and increase our own standard of living. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And a believer \/ a follower of Christ, if he reads the Bible, needs to be thinking about sending it on ahead. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019re saying with all the extra money you had, you didn\u2019t lay it up on earth where moth and rust can destroy it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, there was the temptation to do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There really was. In fact, I kept kind of going through that verse and that passage: \u201cAm I going to send it ahead, or am I going to spend it on us \/ on me?\u201d\u00a0 And you speak of all the retirement\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Oh!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014advertisements on TV. There are a lot of advertisements, as well, for \u201cYou can have it your way.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u201cAnd you can enjoy it right now. Go out and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Or \u201cYou deserve it.\u201d\u00a0 So worldly \/ so welcome\u2014the credit card advertisements. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>And I want to affirm you, Dennis. That was great that you guys got out of debt and increased your giving. And giving is an integral part of any plan. We would encourage people that they build that into their plan to make sure they are spending less than they make. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGiving, paying their living expenses, paying off debt, and paying their taxes\u2014those are the four uses of money. When you get out of debt and you have cash, you\u2019ll always be more generous. When you don\u2019t have the debt, and you actually have some cash and it\u2019s not all in retirement, then, you can meet needs\u2014you come across people who have needs. Giving is a very interesting discussion when it comes to couples. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have to tell you a story. I didn\u2019t grow up giving; you know?\u00a0 I grew up and maybe see a dollar put in the plate as it when by on Sunday. Then, I met Julie. She\u2019d grown up understanding giving and\u2014like you said\u2014understanding the fact we need to send it on ahead. I had not seen that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, that was a source of a little conflict, early on, in our marriage. [Laughter]\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Well, I said: \u201cOkay; I don\u2019t think we\u2019re going to support this guy in Phoenix. I don\u2019t even know the guy!\u201d\u00a0 So, that\u2019s why it is one of the questions in the book, because something as good as giving can cause conflict in marriage. I mean, I\u2019m sure you and Barbara were agreed on your giving\u2014many couples\u2014that\u2019s a source of conflict. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I remember a story, where I was sitting down with a husband and wife. She was very frustrated, because they had [$]25,000 in consumer debt. Two weeks before, the missionaries had come to church and had shared their story. She had watched her husband put $100 in the offering plate for the missionaries. She is thinking to herself, \u201cWe\u2019ve got $25,000 in debt.\u201d He\u2019s thinking to himself, \u201cThe missionaries are sleeping on dirt floors in Africa to tell people about Jesus.\u201d\u00a0 Who is right?\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Don\u2019t you love Bob?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Yes, okay; I\u2019m going to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Binary choice\u2014\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>\u2014let Julie\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014a right and wrong choice. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>\u2014answer that question\u2014[Laughter]\u2014no! What you really illustrated there, Bob, was the very issue of why money is so volatile and why you have to go back to what we talked about earlier\u2014and that\u2019s be able to talk about it; because he\u2019s thinking, \u201cI see a need,\u201d \/ she\u2019s thinking: \u201cMy security\u2014how dare you give that money when my security is being violated?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cthreatened?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>\u2014yes: \u201c\u2026threatened, over here with this debt?\u201d\u00a0 You understand how both of them are thinking; but the issue is: \u201cHow are they going to come together so she\u2019s not frustrated about the $100 that he\u2019s given?\u201d She can maybe appreciate his heart\u2014that\u2019s a good thing and affirm that\u2014but he needs to also affirm her need to have security and apologize and say, \u201cWe\u2019ve got to attack this, because I know that\u2019s a stress point for you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, the couple that\u2019s putting together a spending plan\u2014and they\u2019ve got $20,000 in consumer debt\u2014do they put giving in their spending plan before they pay off their consumer debt?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Well, I think you always need to give to acknowledge God\u2019s ownership. How much that is\u2014it\u2019s interesting, in the New Testament, we don\u2019t see a tithe\u2014we see: \u201cGive as you\u2019ve been prospered.\u201d I tell people that 10 percent is a good place to start, because it\u2019s easy to just take it from there and not reduce my lifestyle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>This is where you need a third party to kind of look over your shoulder. Before you cut your giving back to fund that consumer debt, you need to really look at the lifestyle, because there are probably some places you can sacrifice\u2014you know, eating out\u2014whatever it is\u2014to pay that down. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe issue is\u2014you\u2019ve got to put something in all the buckets. I need to give to acknowledge ownership. I need to pay my living expenses. I need to begin to whittle down the debt, and I need to pay taxes. But that\u2019s why you have to look at it comprehensively. We see couples, all the time\u2014that they may get a big tax refund. Well, that\u2019s money that could have gone into the budget and other things. So, they really were saving\u2014it\u2019s they left the money with the government. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>Then, they get it in April; and they spend it. So, it\u2019s a very complex thing\u2014working all those together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I would never encourage anybody to quit giving totally. I would discourage them from coming off the tithe until they\u2019ve really had somebody look at their living expenses. I think, in 30 some years of counseling, I\u2019ve only had one time where I told a couple, \u201cYes; you need to come off the tithe,\u201d because I saw their budget was as tight as it could be. They had this debt. They could only afford to give, maybe, 5 percent because\u2014let\u2019s flip that around\u2014some people are borrowing to give and don\u2019t even know it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Russ: <\/strong>That\u2019s why it\u2019s all integrated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBack to your illustration, let\u2019s say the guy decides to give [$]20,000 to the missionary; but if he had to borrow the [$]20,000\u2014you know, there has got to be a balance there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to come back to an earlier illustration that we kind of moved past very quickly. It\u2019s to you, Julie\u2014in the family that you grew up in\u2014your mom and dad had a giving spirit. What would you say is the number one thing you learned from them\u2014what they passed on to you about giving?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Julie: <\/strong>I\u2019d have to say it\u2019s the joy of giving; because what I saw was they <em>wanted<\/em> to give, at least, 50 percent of their income. So, that was their\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Now, wait, wait; wait. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You said, \u201c5-0\u201d\u201450 percent?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>50?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Julie: <\/strong>50 percent. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They wanted to do it, or they did do it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Julie: <\/strong>No\u2014well, yes; they did do it\u2014that was their goal \/ that was their desire. Giving breaks the power of money. What I saw in their lives\u2014as they wanted to give more and more to the Lord\u2019s work\u2014the joy that came between the two of them\u2014just on the same page. They loved giving\u2014they loved seeing what God was doing. I had a very positive role model, there, that giving was a <em>wonderful<\/em> thing. It was something I wanted to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Giving is a great way to walk by faith. And I just want to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d to you, Russ and Julie\u2014both of you\u2014for the great ministry you\u2019re having through Ronald Blue &amp; Company, down in Atlanta, and across the nation. Really\u2014how you\u2019ve directed a lot of folks to be better stewards of their finances and a lot of money toward Kingdom work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and you\u2019re helping a lot of couples, too, with this book. I really think this is one of those books that ought to be a part of premarital preparation or\u2014at the very least, in the first year of marriage\u2014couples ought to be sitting down and having these conversations. It\u2019s better if you have the conversations before you get married; but after you\u2019re married, you\u2019re still going to have to figure some of these things out and make sure you\u2019re on the same page when it comes to issues like we\u2019ve talked about today\u2014issues like debt, or about giving, or about savings, or about what standard of living you\u2019re aiming for in your marriage. These are all important conversations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou help couples have them when they get a copy of your book, <em>8 Important Money Decisions for Every Couple<\/em>. You can order the book by going to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order at 1-800-FL-TODAY. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329 to order the book. Again, that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, our commitment, here, at FamilyLife is that in all we do we want to be both practical and biblical with the content that we provide\u2014everything that\u2019s available online at FamilyLifeToday.com \/ the articles, the videos, the audio content; our events; our resources; and of course, this daily program. Our goal is to effectively develop godly marriages and families by pointing you to what the Scriptures say and, then, helping you with examples of how that can be fleshed out in your marriage and in your family. Our desire is to reach more people every year with this message. That\u2019s your desire, as well\u2014I know, for many of you\u2014because those of you who help support this ministry, that\u2019s what you\u2019re making possible every time you make a donation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou are helping equip more people with God\u2019s design for marriage every time you make a donation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDuring the month of May, our goal is to raise $1.1 million so that we can continue with a number of projects that are ongoing, here, at FamilyLife. During the summer months, we want to make sure there\u2019s no slowdown on those projects; and if we\u2019re able to raise the funds necessary here in May, we think we can make that happen. So we\u2019re asking you to go to FamilyLifeToday.com and make as generous a contribution as you possibly can this month. Or you can call to donate\u2014our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. And if you\u2019d prefer, you can mail your donation to us\u2014our address is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd with that, we\u2019re wrapped up for this week. Hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend. And I hope you can join us back on Monday. We\u2019re going to have a very interesting conversation about depression and bipolar disorder and the impact that can have on a family when somebody is experiencing either of those two conditions. We\u2019ll talk with Dr. Charles Hodges about that Monday. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\"><u>donating today<\/u><\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/304512","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304512"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304512"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304512"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304512"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=304512"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=304512"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=304512"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}