{"id":304506,"date":"2017-05-16T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-05-16T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/being-an-influencer-of-your-husband\/"},"modified":"2017-05-16T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-05-16T15:00:00","slug":"being-an-influencer-of-your-husband","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/being-an-influencer-of-your-husband\/","title":{"rendered":"Being an Influencer of Your Husband"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Who&#8217;s at the helm of your marriage? Sara Horn challenged herself to practice biblical submission for a year. What she experienced during those 12 months changed her and transformed her marriage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-05-16.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:57","filesize":"25.59M","filesize_raw":"26830668","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2895,2831],"tags":[6250,4730],"podcast_series":[8030],"cwp_profile":[9350],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304506","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-military-marriage","category-wives","tag-proverbs-31","tag-submission","podcast_series-my-life-as-a-so-called-submissive-wife","cwp_profile-sara-horn","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304506\/being-an-influencer-of-your-husband","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304506\/being-an-influencer-of-your-husband","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"QhiZwk9i4F\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/being-an-influencer-of-your-husband\/\">Being an Influencer of Your Husband<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/being-an-influencer-of-your-husband\/embed\/#?secret=QhiZwk9i4F\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Being an Influencer of Your Husband&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"QhiZwk9i4F\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-05-16.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-05-16.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sara Horn says she spent a year trying to embrace a better understanding of what biblical submission is all about for women. She said, along the way, she realized there were a <em>lot<\/em> of misconceptions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>I just got an email from a wife, last week, writing me and telling me that her husband had bought my book, <em>My So-Called Life as a Submissive Wife<\/em> book. He was reading it, but the reason he was reading it was because he was always telling her how she needed to be more submissive; and yet he had some very major sin in his own life happening. She was, literally, just kind of waiting for him to come home, and the hammer to fall, and him say, \u201cHere\u2019s all these points that you need to be doing.\u201d It broke my heart, because that is not biblical submission.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, May 16<sup>th<\/sup>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. So, what exactly is biblical submission? Sara Horn joins us today to help explore that subject. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I was watching a movie recently. The mom in this movie\u2014you walked into the front hallway of the mom\u2019s house\u2014and on the doorframe was a picture of a fish riding a bicycle. I thought, \u201cI know what that picture\u2019s all about.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You talking about the quote that was repeated by Gloria Steinem?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes: \u201cA woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.\u201d [Laughter] That\u2019s what she said; right? That was the statement that was being made in this movie\u2014the woman in the movie was a very liberated, autonomous\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014she didn\u2019t have any need for a man whatsoever. She wound up finding one and marrying him in the end; but at least, that\u2019s what she was thinking when she started.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. If you knew the story behind Gloria Steinem\u2019s upbringing, and what she endured, you\u2019d understand why she had an opinion of men as she did. That doesn\u2019t make it right; but it was a terrible background that she experienced, as a young lady, growing up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re going to talk today about a relevant subject that I think all single women \/ married women\u2014whether you\u2019ve been married a week or 50 years\u2014can benefit from. We\u2019d just invite the men just to kind of eavesdrop, because this does have to do with you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And with fishes and bicycles\u2014it has to do with the whole thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It really does. Sara Horn is going to teach women how to ride a bicycle. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>I\u2019ll do my best! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Sara has been married to Cliff for 16 years. She\u2019s a mom and author of a book. I\u2019ll let you give them the title of the book\u2014the subtitle is <em>A One-Year Experiment and Its Liberating Results.<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s not an overstatement; is it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>It\u2019s not. It really isn\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, what\u2019s the name of the book?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong><em>My So-Called Life as a Submissive Wife.<\/em> That\u2019s right\u2014we go there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And when you and Cliff got married, did you make a vow to love, honor, and obey?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes. But \u201cbe submissive\u201d\u2014probably not\u2014not in my mind, at the time. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What did you think \u201cobey\u201d was? What part of \u201cobey\u201d did you not understand at the time? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>That\u2019s a very good question! We kind of, you know, blurred that out with\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, what you said\u2014when you started your marriage\u2014that you had a role-less marriage, where both of you equally shared the responsibilities in your marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>I would say so. We took turns with chores \/ we took turns with pretty much everything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were kind of in that newly-wed phase where, yes, I wanted to show love to my husband \/ I wanted to do sweet things for him; but I don\u2019t think I necessarily viewed it as being a helpmate. In fact, I would say that that term, to me, was very old-fashioned and something I probably chafed a little bit against.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Was that demeaning, as a term?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Probably at the time\u2014probably at the time. I was very driven and very focused on career and in my ambitions. I always wanted to be married, but I saw it as just part of kind of my life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You said in the book\u2014that in the first years of the marriage, when you were in your 20s and on a career track, you did have the thought, \u201cDo I really need him anyway?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes; there were times that came up. I know that sounds so harsh; but there were times that came up, I think, in our marriage where I was doing everything\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014at least, I felt like I was doing everything. I don\u2019t think that was necessarily my husband\u2019s fault. I think it was <em>my<\/em> just over-zealousness to want to control everything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you\u2019re in that place \/ when you\u2019re doing that\u2014and I\u2019ve heard from a lot of other women who, I think, they catch themselves with that\u2014they start thinking: \u201cWell, why do I need my husband if I\u2019m taking care of the kids, and I\u2019m taking care of the house, and I\u2019m also working, and I\u2019m doing all of these things? Why do I need him?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that is a <em>huge<\/em> red flag, obviously, that can open the door and do some damage to your relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Your husband is in the military.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>He is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Now, you\u2019re not a real tall woman; okay?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>No. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m picturing he\u2019s a little taller than you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>He is! He is\u2014about six foot\u2014 six \/ one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re talking about\u2014who has been in the military, coming up on a couple of decades now. He\u2019s served a number of times\u2014been deployed in Afghanistan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes; yes. Correct\u2014and Iraq.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And you\u2019re saying you got married so you could ultimately control him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Probably <em>not<\/em> with those words in mind when I got married, but I did not see myself as wanting to be this helper.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You had to wrestle with Ephesians, Chapter 5, as you dug into this; because that\u2019s one of the passages that talks about wives submitting\u20141 Peter, Chapter 3. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There\u2019s a passage in Colossians 3 that talks about this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In the Ephesians passage, before it ever talks about what wives or husbands are supposed to do, it says, \u201cSubmit to one another.\u201d Now, a lot of women find that verse and they go, \u201cThere is my get-out-of-jail-free card.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes. Yes; and with that thinking, you think, \u201cOkay; well, I will submit to him if he\u2019ll submit to me.\u201d So, I\u2019m waiting on him to do something before I\u2019m willing to do it. The way I read those particular verses\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014my understanding is: \u201cThat\u2019s talking about within the church \/ that\u2019s talking about within the body of believers.\u201d But then you do get down to the specifics of a wife submitting to her husband and a husband loving his wife as Christ loves the church. I think that\u2019s the distinction\u2014I think that\u2019s the difference. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you look at that and say, \u201cThat\u2019s not teaching that a husband should submit to his wife in certain areas.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>For me, my honest gut feeling is \u201cNo.\u201d I think we both submit to the Lord, as believers\u2014I guess you could say we submit to one another\u2014but when it comes to the role of marriage\u2014when I read that Scripture, I see it as wives submitting to their husbands, as to the Lord, in our relationship to Christ\u2014being selfless, showing that support and understanding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, and I think you\u2019re right. I know I\u2019m kind of putting you on the spot here; but the context for that section of Scripture is really talking about: \u201cWhat does it look like to walk in the Spirit?\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014because being filled with the Spirit is right there in the middle of Ephesians, Chapter 5. Then it\u2019s saying, \u201cHere\u2019s what it looks like to be filled with the Spirit.\u201d When Paul says, \u201cSubmit to one another,\u201d he goes on to talk about three different kinds of relationships\u2014the husband\/wife relationship, the parent\/child relationship, and the employer\/employee relationship. He says: \u201cWhen you\u2019re in a relationship where submission is what\u2019s supposed to happen, submit. So, children, you should be submitting to your parents. Employees, you should be submitting to your employers; and wives, you should be submitting to your husbands.\u201d He would not say, \u201cNow, parents, you need to submit to your children.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cBosses, you need to submit to your employees,\u201d\u2014we\u2019d laugh at that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And yet, people want to look at the husband\/wife relationship and say, \u201cWell, I think it\u2019s talking about mutual submission.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0I think what I want our listeners to hear in this discussion\u2014you still share a lot of the duties around your home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I mean, it\u2019s not that you get a set of scales out\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and it\u2019s 50\/50\u2014that\u2019s an impossibility in a marriage relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>It is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Your spouse is never going to do as much as you do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Right. Well, and I\u2019ve written a blog post about the whole 50\/50 thing before\u2014I think\u201450\/50 doesn\u2019t work. The reason is\u2014I think, at some point\u2014one of you gets tired, one of you gets lazy, one of you wants to just kind of back away and say, \u201cLet the other person pick up the slack,\u201d so to speak. I think 50\/50 doesn\u2019t work. I think you have to really pour yourself into your relationship and pour yourself into the person that God brought you together with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And Cliff\u2014as you went through this one-year experiment\u2014how did you see him change, as a leader?\u2014how your submission to him empowered him to begin to assume more and more responsibility, as a man, who leads his family, spiritually, and your family? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Right; yes. That was probably the biggest surprise for me this whole experiment \/ this whole year. I thought I would change. In some ways, I was concerned of how I would change; but with <em>him<\/em>, I saw so much growth and change in what he did as a leader. It was just by stepping back a little\u2014it was like he had more room and just the opportunity to really start thinking about what it looked like to lead our family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the biggest difference I saw was with our son. He would, instead of saying, \u201cDo what your mom says,\u201d he would do more of an example with him and say: \u201cYour mom needs help in the kitchen. Come on, I\u2019m going to show you how to do the dishes.\u201d It was very much an example-setting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I was talking to him\u2014maybe sharing concerns \/ things that were going on\u2014he listened, and he would give more advice if I asked for it. But we were on the same page more often <em>when<\/em> I let him make the decision. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was because he would listen to what I had to say, and my thoughts, and my input and then make the decision from there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I have to bring this subject up\u2014and I\u2019d really like both of you to comment on this\u2014because, any time we talk about the subject of submission, the question of the controlling abusive husband factors in here\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014the guy who is not sensitive, who is not listening to what his wife wants, and who\u2019s been telling her for years that she needs to submit and to be quiet\u2014and a woman has gone to the pastor of the church and he said, \u201cThat\u2019s what you\u2019re supposed to do, honey.\u201d That\u2019s not biblical submission.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>No, it\u2019s not. It breaks my heart when I hear stories of that. I just got an email from a wife, last week, writing me and telling me that her husband had bought my book\u2014my <em>So-Called Life as a Submissive Wife<\/em> book\u2014and he was reading it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh! He hadn\u2019t given it to her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>No. He was reading it, but the reason he was reading it was because he was always telling her how she needed to be more submissive; and yet, he had some very major sin in his own life happening. She was, literally, just kind of waiting for him to come home, and the hammer to fall, and him say, \u201cHere\u2019s all these points that you need to be doing.\u201d It broke my heart, because that is not biblical submission. For a man, he is to love his wife\u2014he is to <em>cherish<\/em> his wife. He is to love her as Christ loves the church. That is a big undertaking; because, you know, fellows\u2014Christ died for the church! He died for us\u2014He loved us so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, that is not biblical submission. I think about\u2014that is probably the biggest question I get from wives\u2014is: \u201cWhat if my husband\u2019s a jerk? What if he is, not even physically or emotionally abusive, but just not nice?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, let\u2019s ask Dennis Rainey what a wife should do if her husband\u2019s a jerk.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I think she has to speak the truth in love. If he doesn\u2019t heed those words \/ doesn\u2019t respond to those words\u2014and if you are a member of a church and he\u2019s a believer, then I think you have a local church to appeal to\u2014to go to and say: \u201cI need your help\u2014not to whack my husband\u2014but to hopefully call him away from selfishness and from abusive\u201d\u2014in some cases\u2014\u201cabusive behavior and calling to accountability.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And if the pastor of the church says, \u201cYou just need to go home and submit\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It may be time to change churches, you know, truthfully. There are\u2014and Bob,\u00a0\u00a0 you know we\u2019ve interviewed a number of folks over the years\u2014the place that breeds the most abuse of women are ultra-fundamentalist churches where there is a total non-biblical view of submission. They empower men to be beasts, not to deny themselves on behalf of their wives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow that\u2019s really hard to say, here on the air, because some of those churches bear the name of Christ. But there have been those points of abuse. We wouldn\u2019t encourage any woman to subject herself to any man who is physically \/ emotionally abusing her and is not willing to be accountable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, if her husband\u2019s not a believer\u2014here\u2019s where I think, not only do we have the church, but you also have legal authorities.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You have the police to call. I would encourage a wife, at those points, where a man has threatened your life or has been physically abusive\u2014I wouldn\u2019t hesitate to encourage her to call the police and to use the powers that have been set in place, really by Scripture, to protect women.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; the point is that submission does not uncouple itself from wisdom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you do have to prayerfully, wisely, with godly counsel, look at how you can show respect to your husband \/ how you can honor your husband; but if your husband is asking you to do something that the Scriptures forbid you to do, you don\u2019t submit in those situations; do you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>No; no, I don\u2019t think you do. I think you, like you said, you have to use wisdom. Choosing to be biblically submissive to your husband is not choosing to be a doormat or to be physically abused or emotionally abused. There are proper resources that you can go to. I would say: \u201cIf you sit down with a pastor, and you explain the situation, and you don\u2019t get help, go find someone else who will help.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m going to flip the tables on you right now. What would you say to the husband, who\u2019s married to the wife, who really is a controlling woman and frankly is, at points, maybe abusive of him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes; that\u2019s a hard one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I have found\u2014and I\u2019ve gotten some feedback, I think, from readers who say, \u201cWell, your husband is just really nice.\u201d You know, \u201cHe\u2019s a good guy.\u201d He is a good guy\u2014he\u2019s not perfect, but he is a good guy. I would say that we cannot change our spouses. We cannot change them the way we want them to be, but I would say that we can influence our spouses. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, to that husband, who has a wife, who is unbearable at times or who is maybe even border-line abusive\u2014I would say you need to sit down and talk with her. You need to\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014would you suggest that they go to their church? I mean, that\u2019s kind of a difficult situation\u2014if your wife is being abusive to yourself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I\u2019ve known some situations like this. In those cases, those husbands have offered to go sit under the counsel of a godly counselor\u2014someone to go share their stories with because the husband realizes he\u2019s not perfect either\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but at that point, is looking for a third party to really speak truth into the relationship and, hopefully, paint a picture that gives them a better outcome if they\u2019ll surrender to it. The problem is\u2014as we all know\u2014in marriage, it takes two.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes; it does. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It takes two to dance.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>That is the core issue \/ that is the core problem\u2014I think, sometimes, is that it takes two\u2014but you can only be responsible for yourself and for what you bring to the relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen wives come to me and they say\u2014and their husbands maybe aren\u2019t abusive but they\u2019re not very nice or maybe, \u201cI love him, but I just don\u2019t like him,\u201d\u2014that type of relationship\u2014I say to the wife, \u201cWhat can you do to fulfill your role, as a wife, and what can you do to influence your husband for the better?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I have found \/ what I\u2019ve heard from other women, who have applied some of these things that I learned during my year, is that influence can really change their husbands for the better when you are more patient \/ when you are kind. I mean, how often are we kind to our spouse? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re kind to strangers\u2014how often do we actually treat our spouse with kindness? So often, we get that argument back, \u201cWell, when he\u2019s nice to me, I\u2019ll be nice to him.\u201d But <em>somebody<\/em> has to go first.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sara, you said that your marriage, before this year, was a 7 or an 8. You\u2019d give it a 9 today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>I would.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How would Cliff say you are a different wife as a result of your one-year submission experiment?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>I actually asked him this the other day. He texted me\u2014he\u2019s deployed right now. I said, \u201cWhat was the difference that you saw after we went through this year?\u201d He said: \u201cYou are more willing to let me lead. You are more willing to step back and let me make the decisions for our family.\u201d That boosts him\u2014that gives him confidence. That also puts some, I would say, good pressure on him to be more intentional about leading.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It does.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Is it scary for you to do that because, now, you\u2019re not calling the shots like you used to?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>The longer that we\u2019re doing it, it\u2019s less scary. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019ve learned to trust him\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>I have!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014that he will hear you, listen to you, and seek your advice \/ your counsel before making a major decision\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014because that\u2019s how he\u2019s wired. You described your husband, earlier, as being a processor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And you\u2019re a fast decision-maker. That\u2019s kind of where you two rub each other the wrong way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes. Well, and more importantly, I\u2019ve learned to trust God. So, if my husband does make a decision I don\u2019t necessarily agree with or I think, \u201cMm, I don\u2019t know about this!\u201d I\u2019m trusting God to take care of the details, and to watch over our family and our marriage and those decisions, and that He will bless it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I have two points to make, here, at the end of the broadcast. First of all\u2014and this is going to sound <em>terribly<\/em> self-serving\u2014but I really like your question that a wife ought to ask herself at the beginning of a day: \u201cHow can I help my husband?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> question\u2014that if a wife would ask that and then, in the power of the Holy Spirit, ask God to strengthen her to fulfill that\u2014there\u2019d be a lot of energized husbands in the process, and a lot of marriages that would move out of the ditch and maybe where the man might really indeed take responsibility and lead in the relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd secondly, I just want to affirm you for writing this book. I just applaud you embracing God\u2019s design and even being honest about sharing what you came out of before. I would encourage anyone, who\u2019s listening to this broadcast: \u201cIf you\u2019re looking for a great wedding gift for a couple that are starting out, this would be good because most of them don\u2019t have the right blueprints there\u201d; you know? They don\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Thank you; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Give them this and tuck a certificate for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway in the middle of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>There you go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I agree. We\u2019re going to send Sara and Cliff to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> and say: \u201cThank you,\u201d for his military service on behalf of our country.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Thank you. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Thanks for being on the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Thanks for having me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We do have copies of Sara\u2019s book, <em>My So-Called Life as a Submissive Wife: A One-Year Experiment and Its Liberating Results<\/em>. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order a copy. Order online at FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order your copy. That\u2019s 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d By the way, you can also order your <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>marriage getaway gift certificate when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order the gift certificate as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, speaking of the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, we have hosted three or four dozen of these events already this spring and still have another dozen or more happening, here in May and on into June. One of the things that many of our listeners may not be aware of is the number of people who make a first-time profession of faith in Christ at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway. I was speaking at our getaway in Branson, Missouri, earlier this year\u2014that weekend, we had about 1,100 people who were in attendance for the getaway, and we had 52 who made a first-time profession of faith in Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s one of the great things about the getaway\u2014it\u2019s a safe place for people to come and hear about marriage and, in the process, hear about the importance of the gospel as a foundation for your marriage. A lot of people, over the years, have responded to that message. I mention that only because, when you support the ministry of FamilyLife, this is what you\u2019re supporting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur goal is to provide practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families\u2014not only in this country\u2014but all around the world. We want to effectively develop godly marriages and families. You help us do that. In fact, you partner with us and extend the reach of this ministry every time you make a donation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDuring the month of May, we have a goal of trying to raise $1.1 million. We need these funds to put us in a good place, moving into the summer months, as there are a number of projects we\u2019re trying to keep on track; and the funds are necessary to make that happen. We have some friends of the ministry who have provided matching funds to help your donation go farther during the month of May. Details about the matching fund are available online. You can donate, online, at FamilyLIfeToday.com. You can also call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY; or you can mail your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBox 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about your money. In fact, there are eight important money conversations \/ money decisions that couples need to spend some time interacting on. We\u2019re going to look at those eight conversations tomorrow with our guests, Russ and Julie Crosson. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:57"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.59M"],"filesize_raw":["26830668"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304506.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304506.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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at the helm of your marriage? Sara Horn challenged herself to practice biblical submission for a year. What she experienced during those 12 months changed her and transformed her marriage.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-05-16.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sara Horn says she spent a year trying to embrace a better understanding of what biblical submission is all about for women. She said, along the way, she realized there were a <em>lot<\/em> of misconceptions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>I just got an email from a wife, last week, writing me and telling me that her husband had bought my book, <em>My So-Called Life as a Submissive Wife<\/em> book. He was reading it, but the reason he was reading it was because he was always telling her how she needed to be more submissive; and yet he had some very major sin in his own life happening. She was, literally, just kind of waiting for him to come home, and the hammer to fall, and him say, \u201cHere\u2019s all these points that you need to be doing.\u201d It broke my heart, because that is not biblical submission.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, May 16<sup>th<\/sup>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. So, what exactly is biblical submission? Sara Horn joins us today to help explore that subject. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I was watching a movie recently. The mom in this movie\u2014you walked into the front hallway of the mom\u2019s house\u2014and on the doorframe was a picture of a fish riding a bicycle. I thought, \u201cI know what that picture\u2019s all about.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You talking about the quote that was repeated by Gloria Steinem?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes: \u201cA woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.\u201d [Laughter] That\u2019s what she said; right? That was the statement that was being made in this movie\u2014the woman in the movie was a very liberated, autonomous\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014she didn\u2019t have any need for a man whatsoever. She wound up finding one and marrying him in the end; but at least, that\u2019s what she was thinking when she started.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes. If you knew the story behind Gloria Steinem\u2019s upbringing, and what she endured, you\u2019d understand why she had an opinion of men as she did. That doesn\u2019t make it right; but it was a terrible background that she experienced, as a young lady, growing up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re going to talk today about a relevant subject that I think all single women \/ married women\u2014whether you\u2019ve been married a week or 50 years\u2014can benefit from. We\u2019d just invite the men just to kind of eavesdrop, because this does have to do with you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And with fishes and bicycles\u2014it has to do with the whole thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It really does. Sara Horn is going to teach women how to ride a bicycle. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>I\u2019ll do my best! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Sara has been married to Cliff for 16 years. She\u2019s a mom and author of a book. I\u2019ll let you give them the title of the book\u2014the subtitle is <em>A One-Year Experiment and Its Liberating Results.<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s not an overstatement; is it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>It\u2019s not. It really isn\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, what\u2019s the name of the book?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong><em>My So-Called Life as a Submissive Wife.<\/em> That\u2019s right\u2014we go there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And when you and Cliff got married, did you make a vow to love, honor, and obey?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes. But \u201cbe submissive\u201d\u2014probably not\u2014not in my mind, at the time. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What did you think \u201cobey\u201d was? What part of \u201cobey\u201d did you not understand at the time? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>That\u2019s a very good question! We kind of, you know, blurred that out with\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, what you said\u2014when you started your marriage\u2014that you had a role-less marriage, where both of you equally shared the responsibilities in your marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>I would say so. We took turns with chores \/ we took turns with pretty much everything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were kind of in that newly-wed phase where, yes, I wanted to show love to my husband \/ I wanted to do sweet things for him; but I don\u2019t think I necessarily viewed it as being a helpmate. In fact, I would say that that term, to me, was very old-fashioned and something I probably chafed a little bit against.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Was that demeaning, as a term?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Probably at the time\u2014probably at the time. I was very driven and very focused on career and in my ambitions. I always wanted to be married, but I saw it as just part of kind of my life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You said in the book\u2014that in the first years of the marriage, when you were in your 20s and on a career track, you did have the thought, \u201cDo I really need him anyway?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes; there were times that came up. I know that sounds so harsh; but there were times that came up, I think, in our marriage where I was doing everything\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014at least, I felt like I was doing everything. I don\u2019t think that was necessarily my husband\u2019s fault. I think it was <em>my<\/em> just over-zealousness to want to control everything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you\u2019re in that place \/ when you\u2019re doing that\u2014and I\u2019ve heard from a lot of other women who, I think, they catch themselves with that\u2014they start thinking: \u201cWell, why do I need my husband if I\u2019m taking care of the kids, and I\u2019m taking care of the house, and I\u2019m also working, and I\u2019m doing all of these things? Why do I need him?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that is a <em>huge<\/em> red flag, obviously, that can open the door and do some damage to your relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Your husband is in the military.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>He is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Now, you\u2019re not a real tall woman; okay?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>No. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m picturing he\u2019s a little taller than you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>He is! He is\u2014about six foot\u2014 six \/ one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re talking about\u2014who has been in the military, coming up on a couple of decades now. He\u2019s served a number of times\u2014been deployed in Afghanistan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes; yes. Correct\u2014and Iraq.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And you\u2019re saying you got married so you could ultimately control him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Probably <em>not<\/em> with those words in mind when I got married, but I did not see myself as wanting to be this helper.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You had to wrestle with Ephesians, Chapter 5, as you dug into this; because that\u2019s one of the passages that talks about wives submitting\u20141 Peter, Chapter 3. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There\u2019s a passage in Colossians 3 that talks about this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In the Ephesians passage, before it ever talks about what wives or husbands are supposed to do, it says, \u201cSubmit to one another.\u201d Now, a lot of women find that verse and they go, \u201cThere is my get-out-of-jail-free card.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes. Yes; and with that thinking, you think, \u201cOkay; well, I will submit to him if he\u2019ll submit to me.\u201d So, I\u2019m waiting on him to do something before I\u2019m willing to do it. The way I read those particular verses\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014my understanding is: \u201cThat\u2019s talking about within the church \/ that\u2019s talking about within the body of believers.\u201d But then you do get down to the specifics of a wife submitting to her husband and a husband loving his wife as Christ loves the church. I think that\u2019s the distinction\u2014I think that\u2019s the difference. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, you look at that and say, \u201cThat\u2019s not teaching that a husband should submit to his wife in certain areas.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>For me, my honest gut feeling is \u201cNo.\u201d I think we both submit to the Lord, as believers\u2014I guess you could say we submit to one another\u2014but when it comes to the role of marriage\u2014when I read that Scripture, I see it as wives submitting to their husbands, as to the Lord, in our relationship to Christ\u2014being selfless, showing that support and understanding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, and I think you\u2019re right. I know I\u2019m kind of putting you on the spot here; but the context for that section of Scripture is really talking about: \u201cWhat does it look like to walk in the Spirit?\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014because being filled with the Spirit is right there in the middle of Ephesians, Chapter 5. Then it\u2019s saying, \u201cHere\u2019s what it looks like to be filled with the Spirit.\u201d When Paul says, \u201cSubmit to one another,\u201d he goes on to talk about three different kinds of relationships\u2014the husband\/wife relationship, the parent\/child relationship, and the employer\/employee relationship. He says: \u201cWhen you\u2019re in a relationship where submission is what\u2019s supposed to happen, submit. So, children, you should be submitting to your parents. Employees, you should be submitting to your employers; and wives, you should be submitting to your husbands.\u201d He would not say, \u201cNow, parents, you need to submit to your children.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cBosses, you need to submit to your employees,\u201d\u2014we\u2019d laugh at that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And yet, people want to look at the husband\/wife relationship and say, \u201cWell, I think it\u2019s talking about mutual submission.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0I think what I want our listeners to hear in this discussion\u2014you still share a lot of the duties around your home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I mean, it\u2019s not that you get a set of scales out\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and it\u2019s 50\/50\u2014that\u2019s an impossibility in a marriage relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>It is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Your spouse is never going to do as much as you do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Right. Well, and I\u2019ve written a blog post about the whole 50\/50 thing before\u2014I think\u201450\/50 doesn\u2019t work. The reason is\u2014I think, at some point\u2014one of you gets tired, one of you gets lazy, one of you wants to just kind of back away and say, \u201cLet the other person pick up the slack,\u201d so to speak. I think 50\/50 doesn\u2019t work. I think you have to really pour yourself into your relationship and pour yourself into the person that God brought you together with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And Cliff\u2014as you went through this one-year experiment\u2014how did you see him change, as a leader?\u2014how your submission to him empowered him to begin to assume more and more responsibility, as a man, who leads his family, spiritually, and your family? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Right; yes. That was probably the biggest surprise for me this whole experiment \/ this whole year. I thought I would change. In some ways, I was concerned of how I would change; but with <em>him<\/em>, I saw so much growth and change in what he did as a leader. It was just by stepping back a little\u2014it was like he had more room and just the opportunity to really start thinking about what it looked like to lead our family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the biggest difference I saw was with our son. He would, instead of saying, \u201cDo what your mom says,\u201d he would do more of an example with him and say: \u201cYour mom needs help in the kitchen. Come on, I\u2019m going to show you how to do the dishes.\u201d It was very much an example-setting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I was talking to him\u2014maybe sharing concerns \/ things that were going on\u2014he listened, and he would give more advice if I asked for it. But we were on the same page more often <em>when<\/em> I let him make the decision. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was because he would listen to what I had to say, and my thoughts, and my input and then make the decision from there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I have to bring this subject up\u2014and I\u2019d really like both of you to comment on this\u2014because, any time we talk about the subject of submission, the question of the controlling abusive husband factors in here\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014the guy who is not sensitive, who is not listening to what his wife wants, and who\u2019s been telling her for years that she needs to submit and to be quiet\u2014and a woman has gone to the pastor of the church and he said, \u201cThat\u2019s what you\u2019re supposed to do, honey.\u201d That\u2019s not biblical submission.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>No, it\u2019s not. It breaks my heart when I hear stories of that. I just got an email from a wife, last week, writing me and telling me that her husband had bought my book\u2014my <em>So-Called Life as a Submissive Wife<\/em> book\u2014and he was reading it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Oh! He hadn\u2019t given it to her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>No. He was reading it, but the reason he was reading it was because he was always telling her how she needed to be more submissive; and yet, he had some very major sin in his own life happening. She was, literally, just kind of waiting for him to come home, and the hammer to fall, and him say, \u201cHere\u2019s all these points that you need to be doing.\u201d It broke my heart, because that is not biblical submission. For a man, he is to love his wife\u2014he is to <em>cherish<\/em> his wife. He is to love her as Christ loves the church. That is a big undertaking; because, you know, fellows\u2014Christ died for the church! He died for us\u2014He loved us so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, that is not biblical submission. I think about\u2014that is probably the biggest question I get from wives\u2014is: \u201cWhat if my husband\u2019s a jerk? What if he is, not even physically or emotionally abusive, but just not nice?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, let\u2019s ask Dennis Rainey what a wife should do if her husband\u2019s a jerk.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I think she has to speak the truth in love. If he doesn\u2019t heed those words \/ doesn\u2019t respond to those words\u2014and if you are a member of a church and he\u2019s a believer, then I think you have a local church to appeal to\u2014to go to and say: \u201cI need your help\u2014not to whack my husband\u2014but to hopefully call him away from selfishness and from abusive\u201d\u2014in some cases\u2014\u201cabusive behavior and calling to accountability.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And if the pastor of the church says, \u201cYou just need to go home and submit\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It may be time to change churches, you know, truthfully. There are\u2014and Bob,\u00a0\u00a0 you know we\u2019ve interviewed a number of folks over the years\u2014the place that breeds the most abuse of women are ultra-fundamentalist churches where there is a total non-biblical view of submission. They empower men to be beasts, not to deny themselves on behalf of their wives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow that\u2019s really hard to say, here on the air, because some of those churches bear the name of Christ. But there have been those points of abuse. We wouldn\u2019t encourage any woman to subject herself to any man who is physically \/ emotionally abusing her and is not willing to be accountable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, if her husband\u2019s not a believer\u2014here\u2019s where I think, not only do we have the church, but you also have legal authorities.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You have the police to call. I would encourage a wife, at those points, where a man has threatened your life or has been physically abusive\u2014I wouldn\u2019t hesitate to encourage her to call the police and to use the powers that have been set in place, really by Scripture, to protect women.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; the point is that submission does not uncouple itself from wisdom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you do have to prayerfully, wisely, with godly counsel, look at how you can show respect to your husband \/ how you can honor your husband; but if your husband is asking you to do something that the Scriptures forbid you to do, you don\u2019t submit in those situations; do you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>No; no, I don\u2019t think you do. I think you, like you said, you have to use wisdom. Choosing to be biblically submissive to your husband is not choosing to be a doormat or to be physically abused or emotionally abused. There are proper resources that you can go to. I would say: \u201cIf you sit down with a pastor, and you explain the situation, and you don\u2019t get help, go find someone else who will help.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I\u2019m going to flip the tables on you right now. What would you say to the husband, who\u2019s married to the wife, who really is a controlling woman and frankly is, at points, maybe abusive of him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes; that\u2019s a hard one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I have found\u2014and I\u2019ve gotten some feedback, I think, from readers who say, \u201cWell, your husband is just really nice.\u201d You know, \u201cHe\u2019s a good guy.\u201d He is a good guy\u2014he\u2019s not perfect, but he is a good guy. I would say that we cannot change our spouses. We cannot change them the way we want them to be, but I would say that we can influence our spouses. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, to that husband, who has a wife, who is unbearable at times or who is maybe even border-line abusive\u2014I would say you need to sit down and talk with her. You need to\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014would you suggest that they go to their church? I mean, that\u2019s kind of a difficult situation\u2014if your wife is being abusive to yourself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I\u2019ve known some situations like this. In those cases, those husbands have offered to go sit under the counsel of a godly counselor\u2014someone to go share their stories with because the husband realizes he\u2019s not perfect either\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but at that point, is looking for a third party to really speak truth into the relationship and, hopefully, paint a picture that gives them a better outcome if they\u2019ll surrender to it. The problem is\u2014as we all know\u2014in marriage, it takes two.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes; it does. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It takes two to dance.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>That is the core issue \/ that is the core problem\u2014I think, sometimes, is that it takes two\u2014but you can only be responsible for yourself and for what you bring to the relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen wives come to me and they say\u2014and their husbands maybe aren\u2019t abusive but they\u2019re not very nice or maybe, \u201cI love him, but I just don\u2019t like him,\u201d\u2014that type of relationship\u2014I say to the wife, \u201cWhat can you do to fulfill your role, as a wife, and what can you do to influence your husband for the better?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I have found \/ what I\u2019ve heard from other women, who have applied some of these things that I learned during my year, is that influence can really change their husbands for the better when you are more patient \/ when you are kind. I mean, how often are we kind to our spouse? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re kind to strangers\u2014how often do we actually treat our spouse with kindness? So often, we get that argument back, \u201cWell, when he\u2019s nice to me, I\u2019ll be nice to him.\u201d But <em>somebody<\/em> has to go first.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sara, you said that your marriage, before this year, was a 7 or an 8. You\u2019d give it a 9 today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>I would.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How would Cliff say you are a different wife as a result of your one-year submission experiment?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>I actually asked him this the other day. He texted me\u2014he\u2019s deployed right now. I said, \u201cWhat was the difference that you saw after we went through this year?\u201d He said: \u201cYou are more willing to let me lead. You are more willing to step back and let me make the decisions for our family.\u201d That boosts him\u2014that gives him confidence. That also puts some, I would say, good pressure on him to be more intentional about leading.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It does.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Is it scary for you to do that because, now, you\u2019re not calling the shots like you used to?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>The longer that we\u2019re doing it, it\u2019s less scary. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019ve learned to trust him\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>I have!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014that he will hear you, listen to you, and seek your advice \/ your counsel before making a major decision\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014because that\u2019s how he\u2019s wired. You described your husband, earlier, as being a processor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And you\u2019re a fast decision-maker. That\u2019s kind of where you two rub each other the wrong way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Yes. Well, and more importantly, I\u2019ve learned to trust God. So, if my husband does make a decision I don\u2019t necessarily agree with or I think, \u201cMm, I don\u2019t know about this!\u201d I\u2019m trusting God to take care of the details, and to watch over our family and our marriage and those decisions, and that He will bless it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I have two points to make, here, at the end of the broadcast. First of all\u2014and this is going to sound <em>terribly<\/em> self-serving\u2014but I really like your question that a wife ought to ask herself at the beginning of a day: \u201cHow can I help my husband?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> question\u2014that if a wife would ask that and then, in the power of the Holy Spirit, ask God to strengthen her to fulfill that\u2014there\u2019d be a lot of energized husbands in the process, and a lot of marriages that would move out of the ditch and maybe where the man might really indeed take responsibility and lead in the relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd secondly, I just want to affirm you for writing this book. I just applaud you embracing God\u2019s design and even being honest about sharing what you came out of before. I would encourage anyone, who\u2019s listening to this broadcast: \u201cIf you\u2019re looking for a great wedding gift for a couple that are starting out, this would be good because most of them don\u2019t have the right blueprints there\u201d; you know? They don\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Thank you; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Give them this and tuck a certificate for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway in the middle of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>There you go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I agree. We\u2019re going to send Sara and Cliff to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> and say: \u201cThank you,\u201d for his military service on behalf of our country.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Thank you. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Thanks for being on the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sara: <\/strong>Thanks for having me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We do have copies of Sara\u2019s book, <em>My So-Called Life as a Submissive Wife: A One-Year Experiment and Its Liberating Results<\/em>. You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order a copy. Order online at FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order your copy. That\u2019s 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d By the way, you can also order your <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>marriage getaway gift certificate when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order the gift certificate as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, speaking of the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, we have hosted three or four dozen of these events already this spring and still have another dozen or more happening, here in May and on into June. One of the things that many of our listeners may not be aware of is the number of people who make a first-time profession of faith in Christ at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway. I was speaking at our getaway in Branson, Missouri, earlier this year\u2014that weekend, we had about 1,100 people who were in attendance for the getaway, and we had 52 who made a first-time profession of faith in Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s one of the great things about the getaway\u2014it\u2019s a safe place for people to come and hear about marriage and, in the process, hear about the importance of the gospel as a foundation for your marriage. A lot of people, over the years, have responded to that message. I mention that only because, when you support the ministry of FamilyLife, this is what you\u2019re supporting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur goal is to provide practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families\u2014not only in this country\u2014but all around the world. We want to effectively develop godly marriages and families. You help us do that. In fact, you partner with us and extend the reach of this ministry every time you make a donation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDuring the month of May, we have a goal of trying to raise $1.1 million. We need these funds to put us in a good place, moving into the summer months, as there are a number of projects we\u2019re trying to keep on track; and the funds are necessary to make that happen. We have some friends of the ministry who have provided matching funds to help your donation go farther during the month of May. Details about the matching fund are available online. You can donate, online, at FamilyLIfeToday.com. You can also call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY; or you can mail your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBox 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about your money. In fact, there are eight important money conversations \/ money decisions that couples need to spend some time interacting on. We\u2019re going to look at those eight conversations tomorrow with our guests, Russ and Julie Crosson. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. 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