{"id":304446,"date":"2017-04-03T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-04-03T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/what-every-woman-needs-to-know\/"},"modified":"2017-04-03T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-04-03T15:00:00","slug":"what-every-woman-needs-to-know","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-every-woman-needs-to-know\/","title":{"rendered":"What Every Woman Needs to Know"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Ron and Jan Welch | Series: The Controlling Husband | Sometimes life gives you a wake up call. Ron and Jan Welch recall their first anniversary when Jan told him that his controlling behavior was making her feel like a bird in a cage. Even though she passionately loved him, Jan got tired of having to &#8220;clock in&#8221; with him each time she left the house, and Ron&#8217;s insecurities made him constantly fear that Jan would leave him. Find out how God finally got Ron&#8217;s attention through the behavior of his sons.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Ron and Jan Welch recall their first anniversary when Jan told him that his controlling behavior was making her feel like a bird in a cage. Find out how God finally got Ron&#8217;s attention.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-04-03.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"27.54M","filesize_raw":"28879935","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2082,2902],"tags":[5295,4584,5585,5588,4051,5586,2212,5587],"podcast_series":[8058],"cwp_profile":[9375],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304446","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-communication","category-resolving-conflict","tag-controlling","tag-fear","tag-insecure","tag-low-self-esteem","tag-resolving-conflict","tag-safety","tag-setting-boundaries","tag-threats","podcast_series-the-controlling-husband","cwp_profile-ron-and-jan-welch","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304446\/what-every-woman-needs-to-know","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304446\/what-every-woman-needs-to-know","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"8ZsgIMOjwy\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-every-woman-needs-to-know\/\">What Every Woman Needs to Know<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-every-woman-needs-to-know\/embed\/#?secret=8ZsgIMOjwy\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;What Every Woman Needs to Know&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"8ZsgIMOjwy\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-04-03.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-04-03.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ron Welch has described himself as a controlling husband. He met the woman who would become his wife while both were in seminary. He says he knew how a husband ought to be treating his wife\u2014he just didn\u2019t live it out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I had the opportunity to offer her a picture of a loving Christian husband \/ I had the opportunity to show her Christ <em>through<\/em> me. I had been taught principles, growing up, that I could have learned and integrated. What I taught her was: \u201cOkay, Christianity and a Christian husband is a guy who is going to get his way. If he doesn\u2019t, he is going to pout about it or control you and try to make his way happen.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, April 3<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey. I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019re going to get into the mind of a controller today to learn what happens in marriage when one person has to have things his or her way. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You and I were talking earlier about today\u2019s subject. This may be something that\u2019s going on in more homes than anybody realizes. Don\u2019t you think? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think you\u2019re right. And I think our listeners are really going to benefit, personally, from these broadcasts or they know someone who can benefit from our time together. We have the author of <em>The Controlling Husband<\/em>, Dr. Ron Welch with us, along with his wife, Jan. Welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Thank you for having us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Thank you for having us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dr. Welch serves on the faculty at Denver Seminary, and Jan\u2019s a school teacher by trade as well. <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just have to get right after the issue here. A lot of books get written because we have personal needs\u2014that\u2019s true of you guys; isn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>It is. This is a story that is close to our heart, and it\u2019s a story that we wanted to tell because we have a feeling that there are other people out there who are living the same story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When did you first become aware that you were a controlling husband?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>When you say \u201caware,\u201d you mean when I was first <em>notified<\/em> or when I accepted the reality?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, let\u2019s start with notification. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Okay. The notification was, I would say, our first anniversary, probably. She was fairly clear in terms of telling me, \u201cThis isn\u2019t okay.\u201d\u00a0 I can\u2019t recall exactly how you phrased it, but\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>It was wonderful. He surprised me with going to the same place we celebrated our honeymoon. So, we had a wonderful time. Toward the end of our honeymoon\u2014our first anniversary\u2014I just was honest with him. I said: \u201cSweetheart, I love you; but I feel like I am a bird in a golden cage. You don\u2019t give me freedom\u2014you kind of set down: \u2018You can\u2019t go there. You can\u2019t do this. You can\u2019t go...\u2019\u201d\u00a0 Within that year, I just would sit in the apartment, and it was very difficult. I would bring him food at night\u2014he worked a different shift. That was really the only time I got out\u2014was to bring him food. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, Ron, what did you hear her saying\u2014that first notification on your anniversary?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I heard her saying that she was not happy and that things might not be the way she wanted; but I immediately went to trying to figure out why she might think that. I came up with 15 or 20 different reasons. It had nothing to do with me because, of course, I wasn\u2019t the problem. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Is that endemic of a controlling husband?\u2014he would have difficulty hearing what his wife is saying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>In fact, I think it\u2019s so endemic that it\u2019s part of the reason women are scared to bring the topic up\u2014because I would usually respond with either anger, or defensiveness, or\u2014I\u2019m pretty good at talking people out of things. I can come up with all sorts of reasons. She will tell me at times\u2014we can be talking about a topic\u2014by the time we are done, she thinks something different because of listening to me. There wasn\u2019t a lot of reason for her to keep bringing it up when it didn\u2019t seem like it was getting through to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me jump back, because you guys had a whirlwind\u2014I mean, a whirlwind marriage romance. [Laughter] This beats Dennis and Barbara. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tReally, Dennis\u2014you and Barbara\u2014you got engaged and were married how many days later?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, we dated six weeks, got engaged, and got married six weeks later. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Alright; now, let\u2019s put them up against you guys. How long did you date before he proposed?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Actually, what\u2019s kind of funny is\u2014we were at DU [University of Denver]. There is a class that we took\u2014I had noticed him in other classes. He\u2019s a very bright and very personable young man: \u201cI really like this guy!\u201d\u00a0 We finally did a project together. I started flirting with him\u2014kind of giving him the eyes. He said, \u201cIf we go out to dinner or do something next week\u2014that would be nice.\u201d\u00a0 I was like: \u201cYes!\u00a0 Yes!\u201d and that was our first date. Saturday, actually, is when I said, \u201cYou know, after church, what do we want to do?\u201d\u00a0 Ron said, \u201cI think we need to go look at wedding rings.\u201d\u00a0 I was like, \u201cOkay!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>So, we got engaged five days after I met her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m just wondering, \u201cDid you notice anything that caused you to say,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cMaybe there are some things going on here\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>One of the first things\u2014we were somewhere, and we were meeting. He was\u2014we were going in different cars. I\u2019m like an hour ahead of him. I\u2019m just like, \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cI won this thing!\u201d\u00a0 He gets out, and he\u2019s very upset and angry. He was worried that I was taking risks, and that was really the first time I ever heard him kind of get upset about something. It\u2019s kind of what happens when you really worry about something or someone. He just wants us all to be safe, and he\u2019ll think of everything he can do to keep us safe\u2014which kind of sometimes limits what you can do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>This is one of the things you can point out in your book, Ron, is that a controlling husband can be very proficient in getting things done. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He can be highly protective\u2014in fact, to the point of being jealous. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When was the next time you noticed, Jan, your husband\u2019s controlling nature?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>I would say throughout the\u2014before we were getting married and even afterwards\u2014he was very uncomfortable if I hung out with friends that I knew before him. Whenever that\u2019s kind of a conflict in your relationship\u2014your relationship is a little bit more important, right at that point, than your friendships\u00ad\u00ad\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014because you\u2019re still in that rosy part of \u201cI\u2019m in love, and this is wonderful.\u201d\u00a0 I was willing to let go of those friendships \/ I was willing to not see those people and be around those people. As you said\u2014just kind of leave that\u2014now, everything revolved around just <em>us<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ron, what was going on with you that you were trying to get her away from her friends and get her exclusively with you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>What was happening, largely, was insecurity. I think this is one of the biggest things that I want to contribute to the understanding of what a controlling husband experiences; because the idea is: \u201cThese must be really bad guys who love to control women. They must be guys who are pretty much jerks.\u201d People will ask Jan: \u201cWhy did you stay with him? He was such a jerk!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe has some interesting responses, in terms of why she stayed; but <em>my<\/em> experience was, \u201cIf I don\u2019t control it, bad things are going to happen.\u201d I think this is one of the keys, looking inside the mind of someone like myself is\u2014it\u2019s not just because we enjoy controlling other people\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it\u2019s because \u201cIf we <em>don\u2019t<\/em>, we don\u2019t think that things will be okay.\u201d\u00a0 You can guess what that means about my limited ability to trust God because\u2014if I can\u2019t trust my wife, if I can\u2019t trust you guys for this interview to work out okay, if I\u2026\u2014I have all sorts of reasons why I can tell myself, \u201cI better do something to fix this because, if I don\u2019t, then, worry, anxiety, insecurity kicks in.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy mom was a wonderful lady; but for her, the glass wasn\u2019t just half empty \/ it was draining rapidly\u2014if that makes sense. She taught me to look for <em>all<\/em> the possible things that could go wrong in the future\u2014I do everything I can to keep busy and stop those bad things from happening. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> In college, you had some interactions with young ladies that exacerbated your insecurity\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and how you didn\u2019t feel confident around the opposite sex. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; I started feeling like, \u201cIf they had the opportunity, they probably would choose someone else.\u201d\u00a0 Believe it or not, there was a part of me\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014even in asking her to marry me as quickly as I did\u2014that thought, \u201cI better do this pretty quickly; because if she gets to know me, I\u2019m not sure she\u2019s going to like me and she probably won\u2019t love me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So even the proposal was driven by insecurity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I\u2019d have to admit that now. Looking back, 28 years ago, I think there\u2019s a lot of truth in that. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever had anybody phrase that to me before, but I think that\u2019s <em>exactly<\/em> what happened.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You said insecurity is a big factor here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You also talk about anxiety and anger being contributing factors. Unpack the anxiety issues and the anger issues; can you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>For a lot of controlling men, the anxiety starts by suggesting things that can go wrong. Then, you start taking action to <em>prevent<\/em> anything that might go wrong. I already know that, if I can see it coming early enough, I can try to fix it; because a lot of us men are fixers. We like to try to prevent the bad things from happening. For insecure men, they have a choice between fixing it or waiting until the bad thing happens. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, guess what happens when the bad thing happens?\u2014they get angry. They yell, or they scream, or they try it, or they get overwhelmed and scared. That\u2019s part of the thing we want most to avoid\u2014is that experience. We are afraid bad things are going to happen to people around us. We may have had loss or times in our life when we\u2019ve really not been able to trust God. This idea of saying: \u201cWell, just trust God. He\u2019s got your back,\u201d\u2014when, so many times, I had taught myself, \u201cI had better do this myself, because I\u2019m the only one I can rely on.\u201d It creates a problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you a Christian at this time? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; I grew up in a very Christian home. My parents taught me from an early age. I was part of church from as early as I can remember. My dad was a pretty strong guy, who was definitely in charge of the household\u2014but he honored Mom \/ he respected her\u2014but he made the decisions. There wasn\u2019t really a lot of give and take oftentimes. My mom would always tell me, \u201cI have a lot of input in the decision\u201d; but I always felt what I saw was Dad kind of made the decisions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You talked about your mom, watching the glass drain. Your dad had a way of kind of punching holes in the glass\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014because of his anger that you watched all the time from your childhood. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; yes. I certainly <em>knew<\/em> what I could do to provoke that if I wanted to. I tended to be someone who kind of tended to push the envelope at times. I would realize it was coming and think, \u201cOkay; what can I do to prevent this?\u201d\u00a0 Then, I would find ways to prevent it. I saw my mom do the same thing\u2014I learned from her ways that she could avoid the bad thing as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jan, you\u2019d grown up in a Christian home as well?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan:<\/strong> I would say, \u201cYes,\u201d in the early years; but when I was born\u2014or six months after I was born\u2014my older sister died of a brain tumor cancer. That kind of disintegrated the family, pretty much, at that point. My sister\u2014and as I said\u2014recalls us going to church more when we were very, very young; but by the time my parents separated and divorced, it was something you went at Christmas---maybe Easter---and you didn\u2019t have it in the home. God was not talked about \/ the Bible wasn\u2019t read. It wasn\u2019t a part of our lives\u2014a significant part. I did go to Catholic schools. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI <em>learned<\/em> about God in those ways, but it was not something I would bring back home to the family; because it was just not something that was relevant.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, I\u2019m just wondering about the first year of your marriage, where you\u2019re starting to experience a husband who is saying\u2014what was he saying?\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t want you to leave the house. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cYou stay home. You bring me dinner,\u201d and then, \u201cYou go right back home\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Pretty much. I mean, it was like---if I wanted to go out and do something, I felt I needed to call him; but we didn\u2019t have cell phones then. If I was running late, I needed to make sure I would let him know. It was just\u2014you kind of felt that you tried your best not to provoke that anger\u2014if you could just fall within these guidelines of making sure you are there on time \/ if something happened, you needed to call and just be aware of that. It wasn\u2019t like you could go out and have\u2014do stuff. I was still\u2014we were still in our 20s. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, if you just said, \u201cI\u2019m going to go to the store and do some grocery shopping,\u201d\u2014 if you didn\u2019t have his okay to do that\u2014he would have gotten angry with you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Probably not the grocery store\u2014but if I wanted to go meet friends and do something, or if I wanted to go downtown\u2014and it\u2019s not safe, necessarily, downtown. So, any place that could be potentially\u2014harm could come---he would\u2014it\u2019s not like he would forbid it; but he would come up with reasons: \u201cYou know, it\u2019s really just\u2014that time of night, there\u2019s just so many people. Things could easily happen.\u201d He could always use your safety as an issue that you can\u2019t fight. You can\u2019t fight: \u201cIf you go and you do it, and something happens\u2026\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>And you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, yes; you are right, but\u2026\u201d\u2014it was just not worth the risk, I guess, in my mind. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, my question is: \u201cWhere was God in the midst of any of this in that first year of marriage for both of you?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>This is one of the <em>saddest<\/em> parts of this story for me. It\u2019s just really hard to realize that I had the opportunity to offer her a picture of a loving Christian husband \/ I had the opportunity to show her Christ <em>through<\/em> me. I had been taught principles, growing up, that I could have learned and integrated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I taught her was: \u201cOkay, Christianity and a Christian husband is a guy who is going to get his way. If he doesn\u2019t, he is going to pout about it or control you and try to make his way happen.\u201d I know you can\u2019t take the past back; but wow, I have no deeper regret in my life than what they have had to experience because of some of those mistakes I have made. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Okay; so we\u2019re going back to your first anniversary, where you had your first notification that you dismissed and didn\u2019t hear your wife, in terms of what she was saying. When did you get your next real notification that caused you, at least, to pause for a moment?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; yes. For a few years, she had started to make comments or observations at times and say, \u201cHey, this doesn\u2019t seem like this is okay\u201d; but she started thinking, I believe, that: \u201cMy best alternative is just to stay quiet and not rock the boat.\u201d I think that became her m.o.\u2014[modus operandi \/ method of operation]\u2014was just not to really say a whole lot. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe time that I recall most clearly was when I started seeing my sons treat <em>her<\/em> the way I treated her. They would tell her: \u201cGo get this,\u201d or \u201cPick me up now,\u201d or \u201cDo this.\u201d I\u2019d give them the lecture of: \u201cWell, hey, you\u2019re not supposed to talk to your mother that way. This isn\u2019t the right\u2026\u201d I recall, as vividly as if it was yesterday, God just slapped me across the face and said, \u201cWho do you think they are learning it from?!\u201d because I was teaching them <em>not<\/em> to value women \/ <em>not<\/em> to value their mother\u2014to <em>order<\/em> people around. That was the moment, I think, when I started realizing, \u201cSomething has to change,\u201d because there was such inconsistency in what I said I believed and how I was acting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, Jan, you went <em>years<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>\u2014very many years\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014<em>years<\/em> with this: \u201cJust keep quiet. Do what you are told.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>\u2014because, if you rocked the boat, the outcome was worse if he got upset. Because if you tried to\u2014if something bad happened \/ maybe you got a dent in the car or\u2014that explosion would happen. Then, he\u2019s fine after that. We learned to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014if some bad news happened\u2014you\u2019d kind of drop it, and then you\u2019d leave or you\u2019d get away from him for 15\/20 minutes; then, he processes it and then he\u2019s much better\u2014but it was that <em>explosion<\/em>. What comes out in that explosion is very <em>hurtful<\/em>, because it\u2019s their immediate\u2014whatever they are feeling\u2014there is no sensor \/ there is no: \u201cIs this going to hurt you if I yell and tell you these things?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy dad was so much like that\u2014that it was just very nightmarish for me. So, I would tread very carefully. If there was a way to get away with not having to say it or to try and say it\u2014you had to make sure he was calm\u2014that nothing else was going on. You would try and find the <em>right<\/em> time. There\u2019s not always a right time when something immediately needs to happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Why didn\u2019t you either blow the whistle or call a divorce attorney?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Well, pretty much, my support group was gone. I mean, I grew up not really having a mother or people to talk to about things. Whenever I had a problem, I turned to myself and had to solve it for me or try to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I had made a commitment to love\/honor\u2014trust each other. I grew up as a divorced kid, and I did not want that. I would have rather been unhappy\u2014which I <em>was<\/em>\u2014than to be happy and not with him because there were so many other <em>wonderful<\/em> things\u2014I mean, this\u2014sometimes, when we talk about it, it feels like that was our whole marriage\u2014<em>it wasn\u2019t<\/em>. He is bright \/ he takes care of things\u2014but I didn\u2019t recognize it as that\u2014it was just natural. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, Jan, undoubtedly, you guys were going to a church during this time; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And no one at church could detect anything that was taking place here?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, were you involved in any kind of a small group?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Would you have been willing to be in a small group?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I doubt it. I probably would have found a way to see the risk in that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014or been fearful of other people confronting me. It wasn\u2019t like other people, Dennis, didn\u2019t have comments to make to me in other areas of my life about being a controlling person, or trying to take over, or thinking I knew everything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI <em>knew<\/em> this about myself. It wasn\u2019t <em>just<\/em> her that was saying it. I just\u2014to be honest\u2014didn\u2019t <em>care<\/em>. I was much more concerned with trying to get my way, and make things happen, and go comfortably than I was trying to change. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay. So, the woman, who is listening, who is going, \u201cBoy, that sounds like us,\u201d\u2014 what does she do, Ron?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>The first step, in my opinion, is she has to decide: \u201cWhat is actually honoring and acceptable behavior to her?\u201d\u00a0 She has to set some type of boundary because, if she doesn\u2019t draw a line somewhere, saying, \u201cThis is what I believe is acceptable behavior,\u201d then, what ends up happening is\u2014the man can just simply keep justifying it. The wife <em>has<\/em> to be able to say, \u201cThis is not consistent with what God has called you to be.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI understand, if the family doesn\u2019t happen to have a faith and the husband has no other reason to behave differently, then we end up in a difficult situation, where there may not be a rational reason for him to think it matters. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe may just say, \u201cOh, if you don\u2019t like that, I\u2019m going to leave then. Fine!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn a Christian home, we\u2019ve been called to act certain ways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>We state we believe the stuff we read, and there has to be consistency between how we act and how we treat the people we claim to love the most. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And you can see how the Bible gets used almost like a club\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014to keep a woman \u201cin her place,\u201d thinking she doesn\u2019t have\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014a voice. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014the spiritual <em>right<\/em> to be able to say to her husband: \u201cNo. This is it. I\u2019m drawing a line here, and we\u2019re going to go talk to somebody.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, here is where I have to ask you, Ron: \u201cIs this book written for her husband or for her?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>The book was written for <em>both<\/em>. The idea was to be able to say, \u201cIf you don\u2019t have hope in the marriage at all, the person who is probably going to hear it first is the wife.\u201d She\u2019s the one who will probably <em>know<\/em> what\u2019s happening. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy hope was that some of the men would care enough about her experience\u2014then, when she would say: \u201cHere\u2019s what my life is like. You won\u2019t listen to me. So, read this. This is what it is like. This is what I\u2019ve been experiencing, married to you,\u201d\u2014that, maybe, he would be concerned enough to step back and look at what he was doing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWho would you think would\u2014wives tell me\u2014is the person they have the most pressure from, in the church, to follow what their husband says to do?\u00a0 They are much more concerned about what other women say to them; because women say: \u201cWell, if you would just submit more\u2026\u201d \u201cIf you would read the Bible more\u2026\u201d \u201cIf you would participate in this prayer group more, then, you\u2019d understand what submission is like.\u201d\u00a0 I have wives, who call me, saying, \u201cMy pastor and my husband say, \u2018If I could just learn to submit, this marriage would be <em>fine<\/em>.\u2019\u00a0 Can you help me to submit more?\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s a red flag to me. When I come in\u2014and I meet the couple and I talk with them\u2014an awful lot of those times, we\u2019re talking about a husband whose idea of submission is complete control. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, we\u2019re going to talk more about that later.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI guess, if I had to summarize what your book is about\u2014for both the wife and the husband\u2014it\u2019s about true authentic love\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014not love of self\u2014but, first of all, love for God and, then, self-denial on behalf of your spouse to properly love <em>them<\/em>. To that wife, who is in that situation, one of her first steps ought to be to get a copy of this and begin to go through it because it\u2019ll teach her what real tough love looks like. I think there is going to be a lot of listeners who want a copy of <em>The Controlling Husband<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, of course, we\u2019ve got copies in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Listeners can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order, online; or they can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to request a copy. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just got back from being in Branson this weekend, where I spoke at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway there. I talked to a lot of couples who are going through a wide variety of issues. It may not have been this particular issue; but there\u2019s a lot that can cause a couple to get to a place in their marriage, where they go, \u201cI don\u2019t know if we can make it.\u201d We had some of those couples with us this weekend in Branson. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mention that just because we have <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaways happening throughout April and May, into June. If our listeners have never been, or if it\u2019s time for a tune-up, go to FamilyLifeToday.com to get more information about how you can attend an upcoming W<em>eekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway; or call us if you have any questions at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI should mention this is not a weekend getaway just for couples who are struggling in marriage. Most of the couples who were in Branson this weekend have a great marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey came to the weekend just to make sure they were doing the right preventive maintenance on their marriage. Again, if you need more information\u2014you\u2019ve never attended or if it\u2019s time for a refresher\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, you think about the conflict that occurs in any marriage\u2014and those conflicts come up when we lose sight of God\u2019s design for marriage or when we never understand it in the first place. That\u2019s the case with a lot of couples who are getting married today. They\u2019ve just never had anybody explain to them God\u2019s design for marriage, but it\u2019s also easy for any of us to let that priority slip in our life \/ in our marriage. One of the things we hope this daily radio program does for listeners is to keep reminding all of us of what our priorities need to be so that our relationships can stay healthy so that we can continue thriving in our marriages and in our family relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s easy for any relationship to slip; and when damage is done, often the repair work takes a lot of effort and a lot of time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere, at FamilyLife, our goal is to provide practical biblical help and hope for your marriage and your family. We appreciate those of you who share that vision with us\u2014those of you who help support this ministry, either as monthly Legacy Partners or those of you who support us, from time to time. We\u2019re grateful for the fact you make it possible for us to get more resources into more hands more often. That\u2019s what you do when you give to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can make an online donation at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY; or you can mail your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at P.O. Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223. By the way, when you donate; we have some resources we\u2019d love to send you that will help you keep your marriage \/ your family in focus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have an assortment of prayer cards; along with the <em>Dates on a Dime<\/em> mini-book. They\u2019re our gift to you when you support the ministry this month with your donation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear about the wall that Ron Welch was building in his marriage\u2014how he and his wife Jan were moving more and more toward isolation because of his controlling behavior. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of <em>FamilyLife<\/em> of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["27.54M"],"filesize_raw":["28879935"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304446.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304446.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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and Jan Welch recall their first anniversary when Jan told him that his controlling behavior was making her feel like a bird in a cage. Find out how God finally got Ron's attention.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-04-03.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ron Welch has described himself as a controlling husband. He met the woman who would become his wife while both were in seminary. He says he knew how a husband ought to be treating his wife\u2014he just didn\u2019t live it out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I had the opportunity to offer her a picture of a loving Christian husband \/ I had the opportunity to show her Christ <em>through<\/em> me. I had been taught principles, growing up, that I could have learned and integrated. What I taught her was: \u201cOkay, Christianity and a Christian husband is a guy who is going to get his way. If he doesn\u2019t, he is going to pout about it or control you and try to make his way happen.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, April 3<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey. I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019re going to get into the mind of a controller today to learn what happens in marriage when one person has to have things his or her way. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You and I were talking earlier about today\u2019s subject. This may be something that\u2019s going on in more homes than anybody realizes. Don\u2019t you think? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think you\u2019re right. And I think our listeners are really going to benefit, personally, from these broadcasts or they know someone who can benefit from our time together. We have the author of <em>The Controlling Husband<\/em>, Dr. Ron Welch with us, along with his wife, Jan. Welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Thank you for having us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Thank you for having us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Dr. Welch serves on the faculty at Denver Seminary, and Jan\u2019s a school teacher by trade as well. <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just have to get right after the issue here. A lot of books get written because we have personal needs\u2014that\u2019s true of you guys; isn\u2019t it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>It is. This is a story that is close to our heart, and it\u2019s a story that we wanted to tell because we have a feeling that there are other people out there who are living the same story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When did you first become aware that you were a controlling husband?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>When you say \u201caware,\u201d you mean when I was first <em>notified<\/em> or when I accepted the reality?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, let\u2019s start with notification. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Okay. The notification was, I would say, our first anniversary, probably. She was fairly clear in terms of telling me, \u201cThis isn\u2019t okay.\u201d\u00a0 I can\u2019t recall exactly how you phrased it, but\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>It was wonderful. He surprised me with going to the same place we celebrated our honeymoon. So, we had a wonderful time. Toward the end of our honeymoon\u2014our first anniversary\u2014I just was honest with him. I said: \u201cSweetheart, I love you; but I feel like I am a bird in a golden cage. You don\u2019t give me freedom\u2014you kind of set down: \u2018You can\u2019t go there. You can\u2019t do this. You can\u2019t go...\u2019\u201d\u00a0 Within that year, I just would sit in the apartment, and it was very difficult. I would bring him food at night\u2014he worked a different shift. That was really the only time I got out\u2014was to bring him food. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, Ron, what did you hear her saying\u2014that first notification on your anniversary?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I heard her saying that she was not happy and that things might not be the way she wanted; but I immediately went to trying to figure out why she might think that. I came up with 15 or 20 different reasons. It had nothing to do with me because, of course, I wasn\u2019t the problem. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Is that endemic of a controlling husband?\u2014he would have difficulty hearing what his wife is saying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>In fact, I think it\u2019s so endemic that it\u2019s part of the reason women are scared to bring the topic up\u2014because I would usually respond with either anger, or defensiveness, or\u2014I\u2019m pretty good at talking people out of things. I can come up with all sorts of reasons. She will tell me at times\u2014we can be talking about a topic\u2014by the time we are done, she thinks something different because of listening to me. There wasn\u2019t a lot of reason for her to keep bringing it up when it didn\u2019t seem like it was getting through to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let me jump back, because you guys had a whirlwind\u2014I mean, a whirlwind marriage romance. [Laughter] This beats Dennis and Barbara. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tReally, Dennis\u2014you and Barbara\u2014you got engaged and were married how many days later?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, we dated six weeks, got engaged, and got married six weeks later. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Alright; now, let\u2019s put them up against you guys. How long did you date before he proposed?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Actually, what\u2019s kind of funny is\u2014we were at DU [University of Denver]. There is a class that we took\u2014I had noticed him in other classes. He\u2019s a very bright and very personable young man: \u201cI really like this guy!\u201d\u00a0 We finally did a project together. I started flirting with him\u2014kind of giving him the eyes. He said, \u201cIf we go out to dinner or do something next week\u2014that would be nice.\u201d\u00a0 I was like: \u201cYes!\u00a0 Yes!\u201d and that was our first date. Saturday, actually, is when I said, \u201cYou know, after church, what do we want to do?\u201d\u00a0 Ron said, \u201cI think we need to go look at wedding rings.\u201d\u00a0 I was like, \u201cOkay!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>So, we got engaged five days after I met her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m just wondering, \u201cDid you notice anything that caused you to say,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cMaybe there are some things going on here\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>One of the first things\u2014we were somewhere, and we were meeting. He was\u2014we were going in different cars. I\u2019m like an hour ahead of him. I\u2019m just like, \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cI won this thing!\u201d\u00a0 He gets out, and he\u2019s very upset and angry. He was worried that I was taking risks, and that was really the first time I ever heard him kind of get upset about something. It\u2019s kind of what happens when you really worry about something or someone. He just wants us all to be safe, and he\u2019ll think of everything he can do to keep us safe\u2014which kind of sometimes limits what you can do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>This is one of the things you can point out in your book, Ron, is that a controlling husband can be very proficient in getting things done. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He can be highly protective\u2014in fact, to the point of being jealous. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When was the next time you noticed, Jan, your husband\u2019s controlling nature?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>I would say throughout the\u2014before we were getting married and even afterwards\u2014he was very uncomfortable if I hung out with friends that I knew before him. Whenever that\u2019s kind of a conflict in your relationship\u2014your relationship is a little bit more important, right at that point, than your friendships\u00ad\u00ad\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014because you\u2019re still in that rosy part of \u201cI\u2019m in love, and this is wonderful.\u201d\u00a0 I was willing to let go of those friendships \/ I was willing to not see those people and be around those people. As you said\u2014just kind of leave that\u2014now, everything revolved around just <em>us<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ron, what was going on with you that you were trying to get her away from her friends and get her exclusively with you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>What was happening, largely, was insecurity. I think this is one of the biggest things that I want to contribute to the understanding of what a controlling husband experiences; because the idea is: \u201cThese must be really bad guys who love to control women. They must be guys who are pretty much jerks.\u201d People will ask Jan: \u201cWhy did you stay with him? He was such a jerk!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe has some interesting responses, in terms of why she stayed; but <em>my<\/em> experience was, \u201cIf I don\u2019t control it, bad things are going to happen.\u201d I think this is one of the keys, looking inside the mind of someone like myself is\u2014it\u2019s not just because we enjoy controlling other people\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it\u2019s because \u201cIf we <em>don\u2019t<\/em>, we don\u2019t think that things will be okay.\u201d\u00a0 You can guess what that means about my limited ability to trust God because\u2014if I can\u2019t trust my wife, if I can\u2019t trust you guys for this interview to work out okay, if I\u2026\u2014I have all sorts of reasons why I can tell myself, \u201cI better do something to fix this because, if I don\u2019t, then, worry, anxiety, insecurity kicks in.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy mom was a wonderful lady; but for her, the glass wasn\u2019t just half empty \/ it was draining rapidly\u2014if that makes sense. She taught me to look for <em>all<\/em> the possible things that could go wrong in the future\u2014I do everything I can to keep busy and stop those bad things from happening. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> In college, you had some interactions with young ladies that exacerbated your insecurity\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014and how you didn\u2019t feel confident around the opposite sex. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; I started feeling like, \u201cIf they had the opportunity, they probably would choose someone else.\u201d\u00a0 Believe it or not, there was a part of me\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014even in asking her to marry me as quickly as I did\u2014that thought, \u201cI better do this pretty quickly; because if she gets to know me, I\u2019m not sure she\u2019s going to like me and she probably won\u2019t love me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So even the proposal was driven by insecurity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I\u2019d have to admit that now. Looking back, 28 years ago, I think there\u2019s a lot of truth in that. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever had anybody phrase that to me before, but I think that\u2019s <em>exactly<\/em> what happened.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You said insecurity is a big factor here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You also talk about anxiety and anger being contributing factors. Unpack the anxiety issues and the anger issues; can you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>For a lot of controlling men, the anxiety starts by suggesting things that can go wrong. Then, you start taking action to <em>prevent<\/em> anything that might go wrong. I already know that, if I can see it coming early enough, I can try to fix it; because a lot of us men are fixers. We like to try to prevent the bad things from happening. For insecure men, they have a choice between fixing it or waiting until the bad thing happens. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, guess what happens when the bad thing happens?\u2014they get angry. They yell, or they scream, or they try it, or they get overwhelmed and scared. That\u2019s part of the thing we want most to avoid\u2014is that experience. We are afraid bad things are going to happen to people around us. We may have had loss or times in our life when we\u2019ve really not been able to trust God. This idea of saying: \u201cWell, just trust God. He\u2019s got your back,\u201d\u2014when, so many times, I had taught myself, \u201cI had better do this myself, because I\u2019m the only one I can rely on.\u201d It creates a problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you a Christian at this time? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; I grew up in a very Christian home. My parents taught me from an early age. I was part of church from as early as I can remember. My dad was a pretty strong guy, who was definitely in charge of the household\u2014but he honored Mom \/ he respected her\u2014but he made the decisions. There wasn\u2019t really a lot of give and take oftentimes. My mom would always tell me, \u201cI have a lot of input in the decision\u201d; but I always felt what I saw was Dad kind of made the decisions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You talked about your mom, watching the glass drain. Your dad had a way of kind of punching holes in the glass\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014because of his anger that you watched all the time from your childhood. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; yes. I certainly <em>knew<\/em> what I could do to provoke that if I wanted to. I tended to be someone who kind of tended to push the envelope at times. I would realize it was coming and think, \u201cOkay; what can I do to prevent this?\u201d\u00a0 Then, I would find ways to prevent it. I saw my mom do the same thing\u2014I learned from her ways that she could avoid the bad thing as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jan, you\u2019d grown up in a Christian home as well?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan:<\/strong> I would say, \u201cYes,\u201d in the early years; but when I was born\u2014or six months after I was born\u2014my older sister died of a brain tumor cancer. That kind of disintegrated the family, pretty much, at that point. My sister\u2014and as I said\u2014recalls us going to church more when we were very, very young; but by the time my parents separated and divorced, it was something you went at Christmas---maybe Easter---and you didn\u2019t have it in the home. God was not talked about \/ the Bible wasn\u2019t read. It wasn\u2019t a part of our lives\u2014a significant part. I did go to Catholic schools. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI <em>learned<\/em> about God in those ways, but it was not something I would bring back home to the family; because it was just not something that was relevant.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, I\u2019m just wondering about the first year of your marriage, where you\u2019re starting to experience a husband who is saying\u2014what was he saying?\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t want you to leave the house. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cYou stay home. You bring me dinner,\u201d and then, \u201cYou go right back home\u201d?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Pretty much. I mean, it was like---if I wanted to go out and do something, I felt I needed to call him; but we didn\u2019t have cell phones then. If I was running late, I needed to make sure I would let him know. It was just\u2014you kind of felt that you tried your best not to provoke that anger\u2014if you could just fall within these guidelines of making sure you are there on time \/ if something happened, you needed to call and just be aware of that. It wasn\u2019t like you could go out and have\u2014do stuff. I was still\u2014we were still in our 20s. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, if you just said, \u201cI\u2019m going to go to the store and do some grocery shopping,\u201d\u2014 if you didn\u2019t have his okay to do that\u2014he would have gotten angry with you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Probably not the grocery store\u2014but if I wanted to go meet friends and do something, or if I wanted to go downtown\u2014and it\u2019s not safe, necessarily, downtown. So, any place that could be potentially\u2014harm could come---he would\u2014it\u2019s not like he would forbid it; but he would come up with reasons: \u201cYou know, it\u2019s really just\u2014that time of night, there\u2019s just so many people. Things could easily happen.\u201d He could always use your safety as an issue that you can\u2019t fight. You can\u2019t fight: \u201cIf you go and you do it, and something happens\u2026\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>And you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, yes; you are right, but\u2026\u201d\u2014it was just not worth the risk, I guess, in my mind. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, my question is: \u201cWhere was God in the midst of any of this in that first year of marriage for both of you?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>This is one of the <em>saddest<\/em> parts of this story for me. It\u2019s just really hard to realize that I had the opportunity to offer her a picture of a loving Christian husband \/ I had the opportunity to show her Christ <em>through<\/em> me. I had been taught principles, growing up, that I could have learned and integrated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I taught her was: \u201cOkay, Christianity and a Christian husband is a guy who is going to get his way. If he doesn\u2019t, he is going to pout about it or control you and try to make his way happen.\u201d I know you can\u2019t take the past back; but wow, I have no deeper regret in my life than what they have had to experience because of some of those mistakes I have made. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Okay; so we\u2019re going back to your first anniversary, where you had your first notification that you dismissed and didn\u2019t hear your wife, in terms of what she was saying. When did you get your next real notification that caused you, at least, to pause for a moment?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; yes. For a few years, she had started to make comments or observations at times and say, \u201cHey, this doesn\u2019t seem like this is okay\u201d; but she started thinking, I believe, that: \u201cMy best alternative is just to stay quiet and not rock the boat.\u201d I think that became her m.o.\u2014[modus operandi \/ method of operation]\u2014was just not to really say a whole lot. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe time that I recall most clearly was when I started seeing my sons treat <em>her<\/em> the way I treated her. They would tell her: \u201cGo get this,\u201d or \u201cPick me up now,\u201d or \u201cDo this.\u201d I\u2019d give them the lecture of: \u201cWell, hey, you\u2019re not supposed to talk to your mother that way. This isn\u2019t the right\u2026\u201d I recall, as vividly as if it was yesterday, God just slapped me across the face and said, \u201cWho do you think they are learning it from?!\u201d because I was teaching them <em>not<\/em> to value women \/ <em>not<\/em> to value their mother\u2014to <em>order<\/em> people around. That was the moment, I think, when I started realizing, \u201cSomething has to change,\u201d because there was such inconsistency in what I said I believed and how I was acting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, Jan, you went <em>years<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>\u2014very many years\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014<em>years<\/em> with this: \u201cJust keep quiet. Do what you are told.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>\u2014because, if you rocked the boat, the outcome was worse if he got upset. Because if you tried to\u2014if something bad happened \/ maybe you got a dent in the car or\u2014that explosion would happen. Then, he\u2019s fine after that. We learned to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014if some bad news happened\u2014you\u2019d kind of drop it, and then you\u2019d leave or you\u2019d get away from him for 15\/20 minutes; then, he processes it and then he\u2019s much better\u2014but it was that <em>explosion<\/em>. What comes out in that explosion is very <em>hurtful<\/em>, because it\u2019s their immediate\u2014whatever they are feeling\u2014there is no sensor \/ there is no: \u201cIs this going to hurt you if I yell and tell you these things?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy dad was so much like that\u2014that it was just very nightmarish for me. So, I would tread very carefully. If there was a way to get away with not having to say it or to try and say it\u2014you had to make sure he was calm\u2014that nothing else was going on. You would try and find the <em>right<\/em> time. There\u2019s not always a right time when something immediately needs to happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Why didn\u2019t you either blow the whistle or call a divorce attorney?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Well, pretty much, my support group was gone. I mean, I grew up not really having a mother or people to talk to about things. Whenever I had a problem, I turned to myself and had to solve it for me or try to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I had made a commitment to love\/honor\u2014trust each other. I grew up as a divorced kid, and I did not want that. I would have rather been unhappy\u2014which I <em>was<\/em>\u2014than to be happy and not with him because there were so many other <em>wonderful<\/em> things\u2014I mean, this\u2014sometimes, when we talk about it, it feels like that was our whole marriage\u2014<em>it wasn\u2019t<\/em>. He is bright \/ he takes care of things\u2014but I didn\u2019t recognize it as that\u2014it was just natural. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, Jan, undoubtedly, you guys were going to a church during this time; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And no one at church could detect anything that was taking place here?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, were you involved in any kind of a small group?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jan: <\/strong>No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Would you have been willing to be in a small group?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>I doubt it. I probably would have found a way to see the risk in that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>\u2014or been fearful of other people confronting me. It wasn\u2019t like other people, Dennis, didn\u2019t have comments to make to me in other areas of my life about being a controlling person, or trying to take over, or thinking I knew everything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI <em>knew<\/em> this about myself. It wasn\u2019t <em>just<\/em> her that was saying it. I just\u2014to be honest\u2014didn\u2019t <em>care<\/em>. I was much more concerned with trying to get my way, and make things happen, and go comfortably than I was trying to change. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay. So, the woman, who is listening, who is going, \u201cBoy, that sounds like us,\u201d\u2014 what does she do, Ron?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>The first step, in my opinion, is she has to decide: \u201cWhat is actually honoring and acceptable behavior to her?\u201d\u00a0 She has to set some type of boundary because, if she doesn\u2019t draw a line somewhere, saying, \u201cThis is what I believe is acceptable behavior,\u201d then, what ends up happening is\u2014the man can just simply keep justifying it. The wife <em>has<\/em> to be able to say, \u201cThis is not consistent with what God has called you to be.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI understand, if the family doesn\u2019t happen to have a faith and the husband has no other reason to behave differently, then we end up in a difficult situation, where there may not be a rational reason for him to think it matters. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe may just say, \u201cOh, if you don\u2019t like that, I\u2019m going to leave then. Fine!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn a Christian home, we\u2019ve been called to act certain ways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>We state we believe the stuff we read, and there has to be consistency between how we act and how we treat the people we claim to love the most. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And you can see how the Bible gets used almost like a club\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014to keep a woman \u201cin her place,\u201d thinking she doesn\u2019t have\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014a voice. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014the spiritual <em>right<\/em> to be able to say to her husband: \u201cNo. This is it. I\u2019m drawing a line here, and we\u2019re going to go talk to somebody.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, here is where I have to ask you, Ron: \u201cIs this book written for her husband or for her?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>The book was written for <em>both<\/em>. The idea was to be able to say, \u201cIf you don\u2019t have hope in the marriage at all, the person who is probably going to hear it first is the wife.\u201d She\u2019s the one who will probably <em>know<\/em> what\u2019s happening. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy hope was that some of the men would care enough about her experience\u2014then, when she would say: \u201cHere\u2019s what my life is like. You won\u2019t listen to me. So, read this. This is what it is like. This is what I\u2019ve been experiencing, married to you,\u201d\u2014that, maybe, he would be concerned enough to step back and look at what he was doing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWho would you think would\u2014wives tell me\u2014is the person they have the most pressure from, in the church, to follow what their husband says to do?\u00a0 They are much more concerned about what other women say to them; because women say: \u201cWell, if you would just submit more\u2026\u201d \u201cIf you would read the Bible more\u2026\u201d \u201cIf you would participate in this prayer group more, then, you\u2019d understand what submission is like.\u201d\u00a0 I have wives, who call me, saying, \u201cMy pastor and my husband say, \u2018If I could just learn to submit, this marriage would be <em>fine<\/em>.\u2019\u00a0 Can you help me to submit more?\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s a red flag to me. When I come in\u2014and I meet the couple and I talk with them\u2014an awful lot of those times, we\u2019re talking about a husband whose idea of submission is complete control. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, we\u2019re going to talk more about that later.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI guess, if I had to summarize what your book is about\u2014for both the wife and the husband\u2014it\u2019s about true authentic love\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ron: <\/strong>Yes; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014not love of self\u2014but, first of all, love for God and, then, self-denial on behalf of your spouse to properly love <em>them<\/em>. To that wife, who is in that situation, one of her first steps ought to be to get a copy of this and begin to go through it because it\u2019ll teach her what real tough love looks like. I think there is going to be a lot of listeners who want a copy of <em>The Controlling Husband<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, of course, we\u2019ve got copies in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Listeners can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order, online; or they can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to request a copy. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just got back from being in Branson this weekend, where I spoke at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway there. I talked to a lot of couples who are going through a wide variety of issues. It may not have been this particular issue; but there\u2019s a lot that can cause a couple to get to a place in their marriage, where they go, \u201cI don\u2019t know if we can make it.\u201d We had some of those couples with us this weekend in Branson. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mention that just because we have <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaways happening throughout April and May, into June. If our listeners have never been, or if it\u2019s time for a tune-up, go to FamilyLifeToday.com to get more information about how you can attend an upcoming W<em>eekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway; or call us if you have any questions at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI should mention this is not a weekend getaway just for couples who are struggling in marriage. Most of the couples who were in Branson this weekend have a great marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey came to the weekend just to make sure they were doing the right preventive maintenance on their marriage. Again, if you need more information\u2014you\u2019ve never attended or if it\u2019s time for a refresher\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, you think about the conflict that occurs in any marriage\u2014and those conflicts come up when we lose sight of God\u2019s design for marriage or when we never understand it in the first place. That\u2019s the case with a lot of couples who are getting married today. They\u2019ve just never had anybody explain to them God\u2019s design for marriage, but it\u2019s also easy for any of us to let that priority slip in our life \/ in our marriage. One of the things we hope this daily radio program does for listeners is to keep reminding all of us of what our priorities need to be so that our relationships can stay healthy so that we can continue thriving in our marriages and in our family relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s easy for any relationship to slip; and when damage is done, often the repair work takes a lot of effort and a lot of time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere, at FamilyLife, our goal is to provide practical biblical help and hope for your marriage and your family. We appreciate those of you who share that vision with us\u2014those of you who help support this ministry, either as monthly Legacy Partners or those of you who support us, from time to time. We\u2019re grateful for the fact you make it possible for us to get more resources into more hands more often. That\u2019s what you do when you give to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can make an online donation at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY; or you can mail your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at P.O. Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223. By the way, when you donate; we have some resources we\u2019d love to send you that will help you keep your marriage \/ your family in focus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have an assortment of prayer cards; along with the <em>Dates on a Dime<\/em> mini-book. They\u2019re our gift to you when you support the ministry this month with your donation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear about the wall that Ron Welch was building in his marriage\u2014how he and his wife Jan were moving more and more toward isolation because of his controlling behavior. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of <em>FamilyLife<\/em> of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/304446","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304446"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304446"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304446"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304446"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=304446"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=304446"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=304446"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}