{"id":304368,"date":"2017-02-03T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-02-03T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/gods-design-for-masculinity-and-femininity\/"},"modified":"2017-02-03T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-02-03T17:00:00","slug":"gods-design-for-masculinity-and-femininity","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/gods-design-for-masculinity-and-femininity\/","title":{"rendered":"God&#8217;s Design for Masculinity and Femininity"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Pastor Sam Allberry, who struggles with same-sex attraction, reminds believers that since the fall, all of us have grappled with disordered desires.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-02-03.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"25.66M","filesize_raw":"26910438","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2856,2896,2821,2855],"tags":[6193,5671,6192,2684],"podcast_series":[8190],"cwp_profile":[3448],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304368","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-adult-children","category-lgbt","category-reaching-out","category-teens","tag-gay-and-christian","tag-gay-christian","tag-gay-pastor","tag-same-sex-attraction","podcast_series-is-god-anti-gay","cwp_profile-sam-allberry","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304368\/gods-design-for-masculinity-and-femininity","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304368\/gods-design-for-masculinity-and-femininity","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"bGzOF4v5c9\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/gods-design-for-masculinity-and-femininity\/\">God&#8217;s Design for Masculinity and Femininity<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/gods-design-for-masculinity-and-femininity\/embed\/#?secret=bGzOF4v5c9\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;God&#8217;s Design for Masculinity and Femininity&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"bGzOF4v5c9\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-02-03.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-02-03.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How should a parent respond if a son or daughter comes and confesses that he or she is attracted to the same sex? What do you do? Here\u2019s pastoral counsel from Sam Allberry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>My experience is the more listening we do, early on, the more likely, later on, someone is going to want to listen to what we think. My advice to parents in that kind of scenario\u2014and it\u2019s a very painful scenario\u2014is obviously be persistent in prayer for your child, but make sure you are, of all the people they know, that you are one of the folks they <em>most<\/em> feel able to share with\u2014be one of the <em>best<\/em> listeners in their life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, February 3<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow can Christian parents respond appropriately to a confession from a son or a daughter about same-sex attraction? We\u2019re going to explore that today with Pastor Sam Allberry. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, it occurs to me that there is a question that I never asked myself when I was growing up that probably a lot of young people today are asking themselves. I never stopped to ask myself, in junior high or high school, \u201cI wonder if I\u2019m gay?\u201d And yet, there are a lot of 12- and 13-year-olds, because of what\u2019s being presented in the culture today, who are asking that because they have a friendship with somebody\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and they find themselves drawn to that person\u2014and they\u2019re wondering if that ought to be sexualized in some way. It\u2019s a curious day we\u2019re living in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It really is. We have a ton of our listeners, who are raising children\u2014that this is one of their fears. Some have already realized some of their fears, and they\u2019ve had a son or a daughter come to them and tell them that they\u2019re struggling with this or they feel like they are gay. They [parents] are wondering how to handle this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have the author of a book that\u2019s been out for a couple of years that is called <em>Is God Anti-Gay?<\/em> Sam Allberry joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Sam, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Thank you for having me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>If you didn\u2019t notice that little accent, he is from the UK\u2014he\u2019s a pastor there. I just want to ask you, off the bat: \u201cIs God anti-gay?\u201d How do you answer that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>You have to read the book to find out! [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe trouble is\u2014it\u2019s not a yes\/no answer, because we know that homosexual behavior is against God\u2019s will\u2014the Bible is very, very clear about that. But we also know that all of us are fallen \/ all of us have disordered desires, and that\u2019s as true of our sexual desires as anything else. And yet God is offering us life in His Son. He is actually extending love to us\u2014He\u2019s extending life to us. All of us have fallen short of the glory of God; and yet, all of us can come to Jesus and have fullness of life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, in essence, you\u2019re answering the question for how a parent should respond to a son or a daughter who comes out and says, \u201cYou know, I have this attraction\u2014I have to tell you.\u201d Inside, the parent may be <em>rocked<\/em> to the very core of their being because of the surprise of this; but what you\u2019re saying is we have to respond as God would respond.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think part of that is not making this a sin in a category all of its own, the way you expressed it earlier\u2014for some parents, this is their worst fear. We want to be very clear, for Christian parents, your child being same-sex attracted is not the worst thing that can happen to them. I think one of the ways parents can unwittingly make that struggle worse is by treating it as if it <em>is<\/em> the worst thing that could happen to their son or to their daughter. It is just one type of what is wrong with all of us\u2014all of us have disordered desires\u2014this is one way of having those desires.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You began with the premise that the Bible is clear on this subject. You know that in recent years others have written books arguing differently. A lot of teenagers have bought those books, and it has given them cover. They\u2019ve come up and they\u2019ve said: \u201cOkay; we\u2019ve just misunderstood the Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIt\u2019s not same-sex attraction that\u2019s a problem. It is violence or it\u2019s lustful, non-monogamous same-sex relationships.\u201d You\u2019re not persuaded by those arguments.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Not at all. Now, I can see why, emotionally, why you might want to believe them; but it\u2019s not compelling. The reason is\u2014is what Jesus teaches us about marriage. That is what is key here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus, in Matthew 19, is asked a question about divorce. In His answer, He says in effect, you can\u2019t understand divorce unless you understand marriage. But He then shows us you can\u2019t understand marriage unless you understand gender. As Jesus begins to unpack and expound what marriage is, He begins, not in Genesis 2, but in Genesis 1\u2014not with a man leaving his father or mother\u2014but with God creating us male and female. Jesus shows us the relationship between those two chapters. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn Genesis 1, from the beginning, the Creator made them male and female, \u201c<em>Therefore<\/em> a man will leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn other words, Jesus teaches us that marriage is predicated on gender. It is because we are male and female that we have this thing called marriage. So marriage is intrinsically and definition-ally heterosexual. The rest of the Bible shows us why that is\u2014in the great story of the Bible, the union of the man and the woman is a picture of the coming together of heaven and earth in Jesus. It is a picture of how God is going to draw and unite a people to Himself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod has given us marriage as this <em>amazing<\/em> way of visualizing the gospel\u2014that that union between the man and the woman is the picture, then, of Christ being united to His bride, the church. That is why marriage is male and female\u2014it is like and unlike.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is the key point here. We don\u2019t have a theology of homosexuality in the Bible\u2014we have a theology of marriage. Everything else we believe about sexual ethics flows from what the Bible says about marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; Sam, you know\u2014in just saying that\u2014you\u2019ve just thrown a stone at a hornet\u2019s nest by reducing all the gender options that our culture is throwing at kids today. You\u2019ve reduced it to two\u2014two ordained people, both made in God\u2019s image, but distinctly different\u2014male and female. What are you going to say to the person who goes, \u201cWhat about all the others?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Yes; I think we need to say a couple of things. The fact that Jesus quotes Genesis 1 in Matthew 19 shows us that it is still the case. From the beginning, He has made them male and female. The fall in Genesis 3 distorts our experience of being male and female. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt distorts how we <em>receive<\/em> the God-given gender that we have\u2014it doesn\u2019t obliterate that gender binary. Jesus reaffirms that gender binary in Matthew 19, but notice the other thing He does. In the very same passages, He talks about eunuchs; and He says, \u201cSome are eunuchs because they were born that way.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn other words, Jesus recognizes that, alongside the male\/female binary, you do have some people who have been born with some kind of physical defect or for some reason are not going to be able to express their maleness or femaleness in the conventional way. So, our experience of being male and female is not often straightforward; because we live in a fallen world. But we see that that male\/female binary is still in force\u2014it is still true today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And how would you describe the essence of what masculinity is and femininity?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I actually think that\u2019s a hard question to answer. We know that it\u2019s more than just our biology. We know it certainly includes our biology; but it has to be more than that, because most of what God has to say to humanity in the Bible He says to us, as men and women without distinction \/ as men and women in common. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut because there are some things God says to men and some things God says to women, that shows us that there\u2019s a difference between male and female that is not just biological. I think true masculinity is being a male person who is godly, and true femininity is being a female person who is godly. Those two things all end up looking slightly different, but I\u2019m not sure I can quite pin down <em>exactly<\/em> what that difference consists of.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I do think that we have to acknowledge that there are places where Bible writers will speak specifically to men or specifically to women. When they do, we ought to pay attention to what those specifics are; because it gives us some hint into the masculine bent or the feminine bent that was built into us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We can\u2019t be rigid \/ we can\u2019t be categorical about it; but we can say, \u201cThere seems to be a shade in this direction\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Yes; I think that\u2019s a very good way of putting it. Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I was thinking, as you were talking, about 1 Peter, Chapter 3, where the Apostle Peter addresses women to dress modestly and let their adornment be that of the heart rather than the emphasis of the exterior.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Correct; and in 1 Timothy 2, Paul talks about men lifting holy hands in prayer without brawling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, that may reflect that\u2014actually, there\u2019s something in us, men, that likes to brawl\u2014and so the focus seems to be: \u201cRather than wrestling with each other, why don\u2019t you wrestle with God in prayer; and turn that tendency into actually something that is spiritually-productive and godly?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to turn us in another direction right now\u2014and that\u2019s back to the parents, who are raising young people today. Boy, I hope I can ask this in the right way: \u201cHow can parents today help their sons and their daughters grow through adolescence and have convictions, based upon the Scripture, of what it clearly states around issues like homosexuality?\u201d\u2014because the culture is pressing in on these young people, and they have a face to it\u2014they have friends who are professing to be gay. For them to have a stand is going to be costly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCoach parents in how they ought to equip their sons and daughters to do this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I think we want to\u2014I\u2019m not a parent, so I\u2019m not speaking from experience\u2014but I think we want to model to our kids\u2014if the Lord has given us children\u2014what it means to live by grace. The danger is that we can train our children to be little Pharisees\u2014we can say, \u201cThere\u2019s a big, bad world out there, but we\u2019re not like that <em>here<\/em>.\u201d That is very dangerous; because there\u2019ll then be some non-Christians, who are absolutely delightful and wonderful and just lovely people to be around. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think one of the ways is for the parents to find appropriate ways of showing to their children how they\u2019ve dealt with their own brokenness. That then gives the child permission to verbalize his or her own ways of being broken\u2014but I hope gives them a kind of a gospel-disposition to people in the world around them that: \u201cActually, we\u2019re all broken people here; but the Lord has shown us grace.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cGod is a fixer-upper. This is what He does\u2014He shows grace to those who are not worthy,\u201d rather than a posture of kind of superiority, which is the danger.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And Sam, I know you\u2019re not a dad; okay?\u2014at least, physically\u2014you are, spiritually, to a lot of people. I love your answer, because you put it squarely back on the parents to <em>model<\/em> the kind of grace in their brokenness and how they view themselves but also other people. So the dinner table isn\u2019t filled with mom and dad judging other people, who are broken\u2014it\u2019s more of a compassionate dinner table, talking about how we can take the message of Christ to all people. I like the way you stated that. That\u2019s a beautiful picture of what the gospel has done in our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and Sam, you\u2019re aware that we\u2019ve created tools for parents\u2014one called <em>Passport2Purity<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> and another called <em>Passport2Identity<\/em>\u2122\u2014that you\u2019re a part of. These tools are designed to prompt moms and dads to have the kinds of dialogue with their kids, where they can say, \u201cYou know, we\u2019ve not always done it right, but God\u2019s shown grace to us,\u201d where they can be disclosing and transparent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think you\u2019re right. I think a lot of us, as parents, are afraid to acknowledge to our children that we\u2019ve ever fallen or that we\u2019ve ever struggled\u2014as if somehow we\u2019re going to give them permission now to go out and fall themselves. I like what a guest said here on FamilyLife a number of years ago\u2014he said: \u201cA lot of parents are teaching their kids how to be sin-avoiders and sin-concealers instead of teaching them how to be sin-confessors and sin-repenters.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the pattern we\u2019re going to have to follow throughout our lives; isn\u2019t it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Absolutely. I think another principle I would encourage parents, as they\u2019re trying to teach their children in this kind of context, is\u2014whenever the Bible gives us a negative\/ whenever the Bible gives us a prohibition\u2014is to think, \u201cWhat is the positive behind the negative?\u201d Every biblical prohibition is trying to protect something that is good\u2014if we can present the positive vision of marriage and sexuality that the Bible gives us in a way that shows God\u2019s goodness and makes sense of the prohibitions that flow from it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We have a number of listeners, right now, whose children have come to them and, as adult children\u2014maybe they\u2019re in college \/ maybe they\u2019re beyond college\u2014but they\u2019re now beyond experimentation, and they have adopted the lifestyle of being gay: \u201cWe\u2019ve watched this happen in our child\u2019s life. We look back and we go, \u2018They professed Christ as a teenager, and now they\u2019ve grown up to adulthood. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201c\u2019Does it mean they don\u2019t know Jesus Christ?\u2019\u201d Help a parent know how to relate to that son or daughter in a way that invites them to come back to the gospel and to the God of grace and compassion.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>My advice is\u2014you\u2019re playing the long game here. Your priority isn\u2019t to get them on the same page with you by the end of next week. The priority, I think, is\u2014in ten years\u2019 time, you still want to be the person that they <em>most<\/em> feel able to talk about anything with. To borrow a phrase from a lovely old man at our church, who does a lot of informal pastoral ministry\u2014he was telling me once he was about to meet with a young man who was fairly troubled about something\u2014and he said, \u201cI\u2019m going to give him a thoroughly good listening-to.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy experience is\u2014the more listening we do, early on, the more likely, later on, someone is going to want to listen to what we think. My advice to parents in that kind of scenario\u2014and it\u2019s a very painful scenario\u2014is, obviously, be persistent in prayer for your child; but make sure you are, of all the people they know, that you are one of the folks they <em>most<\/em> feel able to share with. Be one of the <em>best<\/em> listeners in their life. Ultimately, if things go wrong in that child\u2019s relationship and the wheels come off, be the kind of person who\u2019s the natural shoulder for them to cry on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy experience has been\u2014the more you take an interest in that person, and listen to them, and offer hospitality \/ you know, don\u2019t push them away but invite them in\u2014and try to build a relationship with that person\u2019s partner as well\u2014what then begins to happen is the child is the one who then starts saying, \u201cSo what do you think about this?\u201d The child then actually does want to know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And when the child says, \u201cWe\u2019ve decided we want to get married,\u201d do you pay for the wedding? Do you do what is customary?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Well, that is a very, very tricky situation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; it is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>And it\u2019s, again, where we want to be people of grace and truth. We don\u2019t ever choose between grace and truth\u2014the two are joined together in Jesus, and what God has joined together let man not separate. So it\u2019s not, \u201cPick whichever one you feel most temperamentally aligned to.\u201d If you think you have grace without truth, you don\u2019t have either\u2014the two go together in the Christian lifestyle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe need to think of, \u201cWhat is the way of expressing friendship \/ of expressing affection and love that is faithful to what we know we believe?\u201d Whatever we decide to do, we want it to be <em>heard<\/em> by the child as, \u201cWell, I know where my parents stand on this; and I know how much they love me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The bottom line is\u2014we want a formula. We want a formula that guarantees an outcome. It is human beings we\u2019re loving here\u2014it\u2019s a broken, flawed human being loving another broken and flawed human being. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs you were talking, I\u2019ve never applied this verse\u2014in all the years I\u2019ve read it, I\u2019ve never thought of it in light of this\u2014but this would be a great verse for a parent of a child who\u2019s struggling with his or her sexuality, whether it be heterosexual or homosexual\u2014it\u2019s Romans, Chapter 12, verse 18: \u201cIf possible, so far it depends on you, live peaceably with all.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe long view means you have to give up your soapboxes, and your sermons, and leaving books on the nightstand, or having their car radio tuned into our broadcast because you know I\u2019m going to be talking about that subject.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and that also means that, if you\u2019re going to have some of the conversations, where you\u2019re going to do listening, like Sam talked about, you better go into those conversations, prayed up and ready to hear things without your face showing your shock.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, and Sam didn\u2019t say it in his answer; but he has a lot to say in terms of additional answers to that question in his book, <em>Is God Anti-Gay?<\/em> This would be a great tool for any parent to have, in advance of a conversation, because it just gives insight where it matters in interpersonal relationships with the people we love the most. Shouldn\u2019t we be better prepared to know how to love them? I think we should.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>That verse in Romans\u2014I\u2019ve never sort of connected it to this context, but I think that is a fantastic verse to use.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the mistakes I\u2019ve seen Christian parents make in this scenario is where their child is involved in a same-sex relationship\u2014is they\u2019ve blamed the child\u2019s partner, either explicitly or implicitly; and they\u2019ve ended up saying, \u201c<em>You<\/em> are not welcome in our house.\u201d The net effect of that, almost always, is you end up pushing both of them away\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You repel them; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>\u2014which is why I said, earlier, I think Romans 12 is a great verse for that\u2014build a relationship with that person. Disapproving of the relationship doesn\u2019t mean disapproving of the person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; how do you have peace with people you don\u2019t agree with?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Yes; I think the way God does it is\u2014you invite them in, and you sit down at the table with them, and eat with them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, my experience has been with friends in this scenario, when they\u2019ve really actually said: \u201cWell, listen, if you\u2019re a friend of my son, you\u2019re a friend of ours. We would love to get to know you better.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That would take a measure of grace\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>It\u2019s hard! It\u2019s hard!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014to make that statement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I can think of one family, where that\u2019s actually been their approach\u2014it hadn\u2019t been their approach\u2014and they thought, \u201cActually, no; we must actually reach out in friendship and love to this partner.\u201d It\u2019s now been a year or so later. The partner is now coming to them, saying, \u201cSo what do you believe as Christians?\u201d and now he is feeling <em>safe<\/em> with these parents to actually have quite serious conversations with them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Romans 12:18: \u201cIf possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m just going to tie that verse to Jesus\u2019 statement that we\u2019re to be as wise as serpents in that process and be as innocent as doves. Part of the way you do that, I think, is you get a copy of Sam\u2019s book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt provides you with good, solid, biblical thinking on this question so that you can know how to live at peace with all men. It\u2019s called <em>Is God Anti-Gay?<\/em> You can request a copy when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY, or go online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Again, order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Sam, I think you may have heard us talk about this prior to coming into the studio, but I do have a favorite question. Out of everything you\u2019ve done in all your life, what is the most courageous thing you\u2019ve ever done?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>In one sense it doesn\u2019t <em>feel<\/em> courageous to have done this, but I think it probably is being open on this issue. I\u2019m willing to try to stand for Christ on this issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, it\u2019s been a great privilege too. I don\u2019t particularly enjoy talking about homosexuality, but I <em>love<\/em> talking about Jesus. For me, talking about homosexuality is a wonderful means of talking about the goodness and sufficiency of Jesus. I\u2019m aware that it\u2019s flying in the face of very, very strong cultural currents; and it hasn\u2019t made life easier in lots of respects. A lot of people don\u2019t <em>like<\/em> someone in my situation speaking the message I have, but it\u2019s been a great privilege.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I want you to know you really are a hero of the faith\u2014period! Thanks for standing strong.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Well, thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t______________________________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\"><u>donating today<\/u><\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.66M"],"filesize_raw":["26910438"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304368.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304368.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Sam Allberry, who struggles with same-sex attraction, reminds believers that since the fall, all of us have grappled with disordered desires.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-02-03.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How should a parent respond if a son or daughter comes and confesses that he or she is attracted to the same sex? What do you do? Here\u2019s pastoral counsel from Sam Allberry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>My experience is the more listening we do, early on, the more likely, later on, someone is going to want to listen to what we think. My advice to parents in that kind of scenario\u2014and it\u2019s a very painful scenario\u2014is obviously be persistent in prayer for your child, but make sure you are, of all the people they know, that you are one of the folks they <em>most<\/em> feel able to share with\u2014be one of the <em>best<\/em> listeners in their life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, February 3<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow can Christian parents respond appropriately to a confession from a son or a daughter about same-sex attraction? We\u2019re going to explore that today with Pastor Sam Allberry. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, it occurs to me that there is a question that I never asked myself when I was growing up that probably a lot of young people today are asking themselves. I never stopped to ask myself, in junior high or high school, \u201cI wonder if I\u2019m gay?\u201d And yet, there are a lot of 12- and 13-year-olds, because of what\u2019s being presented in the culture today, who are asking that because they have a friendship with somebody\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and they find themselves drawn to that person\u2014and they\u2019re wondering if that ought to be sexualized in some way. It\u2019s a curious day we\u2019re living in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It really is. We have a ton of our listeners, who are raising children\u2014that this is one of their fears. Some have already realized some of their fears, and they\u2019ve had a son or a daughter come to them and tell them that they\u2019re struggling with this or they feel like they are gay. They [parents] are wondering how to handle this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have the author of a book that\u2019s been out for a couple of years that is called <em>Is God Anti-Gay?<\/em> Sam Allberry joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Sam, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Thank you for having me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>If you didn\u2019t notice that little accent, he is from the UK\u2014he\u2019s a pastor there. I just want to ask you, off the bat: \u201cIs God anti-gay?\u201d How do you answer that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>You have to read the book to find out! [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe trouble is\u2014it\u2019s not a yes\/no answer, because we know that homosexual behavior is against God\u2019s will\u2014the Bible is very, very clear about that. But we also know that all of us are fallen \/ all of us have disordered desires, and that\u2019s as true of our sexual desires as anything else. And yet God is offering us life in His Son. He is actually extending love to us\u2014He\u2019s extending life to us. All of us have fallen short of the glory of God; and yet, all of us can come to Jesus and have fullness of life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, in essence, you\u2019re answering the question for how a parent should respond to a son or a daughter who comes out and says, \u201cYou know, I have this attraction\u2014I have to tell you.\u201d Inside, the parent may be <em>rocked<\/em> to the very core of their being because of the surprise of this; but what you\u2019re saying is we have to respond as God would respond.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think part of that is not making this a sin in a category all of its own, the way you expressed it earlier\u2014for some parents, this is their worst fear. We want to be very clear, for Christian parents, your child being same-sex attracted is not the worst thing that can happen to them. I think one of the ways parents can unwittingly make that struggle worse is by treating it as if it <em>is<\/em> the worst thing that could happen to their son or to their daughter. It is just one type of what is wrong with all of us\u2014all of us have disordered desires\u2014this is one way of having those desires.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You began with the premise that the Bible is clear on this subject. You know that in recent years others have written books arguing differently. A lot of teenagers have bought those books, and it has given them cover. They\u2019ve come up and they\u2019ve said: \u201cOkay; we\u2019ve just misunderstood the Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIt\u2019s not same-sex attraction that\u2019s a problem. It is violence or it\u2019s lustful, non-monogamous same-sex relationships.\u201d You\u2019re not persuaded by those arguments.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Not at all. Now, I can see why, emotionally, why you might want to believe them; but it\u2019s not compelling. The reason is\u2014is what Jesus teaches us about marriage. That is what is key here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus, in Matthew 19, is asked a question about divorce. In His answer, He says in effect, you can\u2019t understand divorce unless you understand marriage. But He then shows us you can\u2019t understand marriage unless you understand gender. As Jesus begins to unpack and expound what marriage is, He begins, not in Genesis 2, but in Genesis 1\u2014not with a man leaving his father or mother\u2014but with God creating us male and female. Jesus shows us the relationship between those two chapters. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn Genesis 1, from the beginning, the Creator made them male and female, \u201c<em>Therefore<\/em> a man will leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn other words, Jesus teaches us that marriage is predicated on gender. It is because we are male and female that we have this thing called marriage. So marriage is intrinsically and definition-ally heterosexual. The rest of the Bible shows us why that is\u2014in the great story of the Bible, the union of the man and the woman is a picture of the coming together of heaven and earth in Jesus. It is a picture of how God is going to draw and unite a people to Himself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod has given us marriage as this <em>amazing<\/em> way of visualizing the gospel\u2014that that union between the man and the woman is the picture, then, of Christ being united to His bride, the church. That is why marriage is male and female\u2014it is like and unlike.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is the key point here. We don\u2019t have a theology of homosexuality in the Bible\u2014we have a theology of marriage. Everything else we believe about sexual ethics flows from what the Bible says about marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; Sam, you know\u2014in just saying that\u2014you\u2019ve just thrown a stone at a hornet\u2019s nest by reducing all the gender options that our culture is throwing at kids today. You\u2019ve reduced it to two\u2014two ordained people, both made in God\u2019s image, but distinctly different\u2014male and female. What are you going to say to the person who goes, \u201cWhat about all the others?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Yes; I think we need to say a couple of things. The fact that Jesus quotes Genesis 1 in Matthew 19 shows us that it is still the case. From the beginning, He has made them male and female. The fall in Genesis 3 distorts our experience of being male and female. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt distorts how we <em>receive<\/em> the God-given gender that we have\u2014it doesn\u2019t obliterate that gender binary. Jesus reaffirms that gender binary in Matthew 19, but notice the other thing He does. In the very same passages, He talks about eunuchs; and He says, \u201cSome are eunuchs because they were born that way.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn other words, Jesus recognizes that, alongside the male\/female binary, you do have some people who have been born with some kind of physical defect or for some reason are not going to be able to express their maleness or femaleness in the conventional way. So, our experience of being male and female is not often straightforward; because we live in a fallen world. But we see that that male\/female binary is still in force\u2014it is still true today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And how would you describe the essence of what masculinity is and femininity?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I actually think that\u2019s a hard question to answer. We know that it\u2019s more than just our biology. We know it certainly includes our biology; but it has to be more than that, because most of what God has to say to humanity in the Bible He says to us, as men and women without distinction \/ as men and women in common. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut because there are some things God says to men and some things God says to women, that shows us that there\u2019s a difference between male and female that is not just biological. I think true masculinity is being a male person who is godly, and true femininity is being a female person who is godly. Those two things all end up looking slightly different, but I\u2019m not sure I can quite pin down <em>exactly<\/em> what that difference consists of.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I do think that we have to acknowledge that there are places where Bible writers will speak specifically to men or specifically to women. When they do, we ought to pay attention to what those specifics are; because it gives us some hint into the masculine bent or the feminine bent that was built into us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We can\u2019t be rigid \/ we can\u2019t be categorical about it; but we can say, \u201cThere seems to be a shade in this direction\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Yes; I think that\u2019s a very good way of putting it. Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I was thinking, as you were talking, about 1 Peter, Chapter 3, where the Apostle Peter addresses women to dress modestly and let their adornment be that of the heart rather than the emphasis of the exterior.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Correct; and in 1 Timothy 2, Paul talks about men lifting holy hands in prayer without brawling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, that may reflect that\u2014actually, there\u2019s something in us, men, that likes to brawl\u2014and so the focus seems to be: \u201cRather than wrestling with each other, why don\u2019t you wrestle with God in prayer; and turn that tendency into actually something that is spiritually-productive and godly?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to turn us in another direction right now\u2014and that\u2019s back to the parents, who are raising young people today. Boy, I hope I can ask this in the right way: \u201cHow can parents today help their sons and their daughters grow through adolescence and have convictions, based upon the Scripture, of what it clearly states around issues like homosexuality?\u201d\u2014because the culture is pressing in on these young people, and they have a face to it\u2014they have friends who are professing to be gay. For them to have a stand is going to be costly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCoach parents in how they ought to equip their sons and daughters to do this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I think we want to\u2014I\u2019m not a parent, so I\u2019m not speaking from experience\u2014but I think we want to model to our kids\u2014if the Lord has given us children\u2014what it means to live by grace. The danger is that we can train our children to be little Pharisees\u2014we can say, \u201cThere\u2019s a big, bad world out there, but we\u2019re not like that <em>here<\/em>.\u201d That is very dangerous; because there\u2019ll then be some non-Christians, who are absolutely delightful and wonderful and just lovely people to be around. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think one of the ways is for the parents to find appropriate ways of showing to their children how they\u2019ve dealt with their own brokenness. That then gives the child permission to verbalize his or her own ways of being broken\u2014but I hope gives them a kind of a gospel-disposition to people in the world around them that: \u201cActually, we\u2019re all broken people here; but the Lord has shown us grace.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cGod is a fixer-upper. This is what He does\u2014He shows grace to those who are not worthy,\u201d rather than a posture of kind of superiority, which is the danger.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And Sam, I know you\u2019re not a dad; okay?\u2014at least, physically\u2014you are, spiritually, to a lot of people. I love your answer, because you put it squarely back on the parents to <em>model<\/em> the kind of grace in their brokenness and how they view themselves but also other people. So the dinner table isn\u2019t filled with mom and dad judging other people, who are broken\u2014it\u2019s more of a compassionate dinner table, talking about how we can take the message of Christ to all people. I like the way you stated that. That\u2019s a beautiful picture of what the gospel has done in our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and Sam, you\u2019re aware that we\u2019ve created tools for parents\u2014one called <em>Passport2Purity<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> and another called <em>Passport2Identity<\/em>\u2122\u2014that you\u2019re a part of. These tools are designed to prompt moms and dads to have the kinds of dialogue with their kids, where they can say, \u201cYou know, we\u2019ve not always done it right, but God\u2019s shown grace to us,\u201d where they can be disclosing and transparent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think you\u2019re right. I think a lot of us, as parents, are afraid to acknowledge to our children that we\u2019ve ever fallen or that we\u2019ve ever struggled\u2014as if somehow we\u2019re going to give them permission now to go out and fall themselves. I like what a guest said here on FamilyLife a number of years ago\u2014he said: \u201cA lot of parents are teaching their kids how to be sin-avoiders and sin-concealers instead of teaching them how to be sin-confessors and sin-repenters.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the pattern we\u2019re going to have to follow throughout our lives; isn\u2019t it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Absolutely. I think another principle I would encourage parents, as they\u2019re trying to teach their children in this kind of context, is\u2014whenever the Bible gives us a negative\/ whenever the Bible gives us a prohibition\u2014is to think, \u201cWhat is the positive behind the negative?\u201d Every biblical prohibition is trying to protect something that is good\u2014if we can present the positive vision of marriage and sexuality that the Bible gives us in a way that shows God\u2019s goodness and makes sense of the prohibitions that flow from it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We have a number of listeners, right now, whose children have come to them and, as adult children\u2014maybe they\u2019re in college \/ maybe they\u2019re beyond college\u2014but they\u2019re now beyond experimentation, and they have adopted the lifestyle of being gay: \u201cWe\u2019ve watched this happen in our child\u2019s life. We look back and we go, \u2018They professed Christ as a teenager, and now they\u2019ve grown up to adulthood. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201c\u2019Does it mean they don\u2019t know Jesus Christ?\u2019\u201d Help a parent know how to relate to that son or daughter in a way that invites them to come back to the gospel and to the God of grace and compassion.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>My advice is\u2014you\u2019re playing the long game here. Your priority isn\u2019t to get them on the same page with you by the end of next week. The priority, I think, is\u2014in ten years\u2019 time, you still want to be the person that they <em>most<\/em> feel able to talk about anything with. To borrow a phrase from a lovely old man at our church, who does a lot of informal pastoral ministry\u2014he was telling me once he was about to meet with a young man who was fairly troubled about something\u2014and he said, \u201cI\u2019m going to give him a thoroughly good listening-to.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy experience is\u2014the more listening we do, early on, the more likely, later on, someone is going to want to listen to what we think. My advice to parents in that kind of scenario\u2014and it\u2019s a very painful scenario\u2014is, obviously, be persistent in prayer for your child; but make sure you are, of all the people they know, that you are one of the folks they <em>most<\/em> feel able to share with. Be one of the <em>best<\/em> listeners in their life. Ultimately, if things go wrong in that child\u2019s relationship and the wheels come off, be the kind of person who\u2019s the natural shoulder for them to cry on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy experience has been\u2014the more you take an interest in that person, and listen to them, and offer hospitality \/ you know, don\u2019t push them away but invite them in\u2014and try to build a relationship with that person\u2019s partner as well\u2014what then begins to happen is the child is the one who then starts saying, \u201cSo what do you think about this?\u201d The child then actually does want to know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And when the child says, \u201cWe\u2019ve decided we want to get married,\u201d do you pay for the wedding? Do you do what is customary?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Well, that is a very, very tricky situation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; it is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>And it\u2019s, again, where we want to be people of grace and truth. We don\u2019t ever choose between grace and truth\u2014the two are joined together in Jesus, and what God has joined together let man not separate. So it\u2019s not, \u201cPick whichever one you feel most temperamentally aligned to.\u201d If you think you have grace without truth, you don\u2019t have either\u2014the two go together in the Christian lifestyle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe need to think of, \u201cWhat is the way of expressing friendship \/ of expressing affection and love that is faithful to what we know we believe?\u201d Whatever we decide to do, we want it to be <em>heard<\/em> by the child as, \u201cWell, I know where my parents stand on this; and I know how much they love me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The bottom line is\u2014we want a formula. We want a formula that guarantees an outcome. It is human beings we\u2019re loving here\u2014it\u2019s a broken, flawed human being loving another broken and flawed human being. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs you were talking, I\u2019ve never applied this verse\u2014in all the years I\u2019ve read it, I\u2019ve never thought of it in light of this\u2014but this would be a great verse for a parent of a child who\u2019s struggling with his or her sexuality, whether it be heterosexual or homosexual\u2014it\u2019s Romans, Chapter 12, verse 18: \u201cIf possible, so far it depends on you, live peaceably with all.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe long view means you have to give up your soapboxes, and your sermons, and leaving books on the nightstand, or having their car radio tuned into our broadcast because you know I\u2019m going to be talking about that subject.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and that also means that, if you\u2019re going to have some of the conversations, where you\u2019re going to do listening, like Sam talked about, you better go into those conversations, prayed up and ready to hear things without your face showing your shock.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, and Sam didn\u2019t say it in his answer; but he has a lot to say in terms of additional answers to that question in his book, <em>Is God Anti-Gay?<\/em> This would be a great tool for any parent to have, in advance of a conversation, because it just gives insight where it matters in interpersonal relationships with the people we love the most. Shouldn\u2019t we be better prepared to know how to love them? I think we should.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>That verse in Romans\u2014I\u2019ve never sort of connected it to this context, but I think that is a fantastic verse to use.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the mistakes I\u2019ve seen Christian parents make in this scenario is where their child is involved in a same-sex relationship\u2014is they\u2019ve blamed the child\u2019s partner, either explicitly or implicitly; and they\u2019ve ended up saying, \u201c<em>You<\/em> are not welcome in our house.\u201d The net effect of that, almost always, is you end up pushing both of them away\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You repel them; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>\u2014which is why I said, earlier, I think Romans 12 is a great verse for that\u2014build a relationship with that person. Disapproving of the relationship doesn\u2019t mean disapproving of the person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; how do you have peace with people you don\u2019t agree with?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Yes; I think the way God does it is\u2014you invite them in, and you sit down at the table with them, and eat with them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, my experience has been with friends in this scenario, when they\u2019ve really actually said: \u201cWell, listen, if you\u2019re a friend of my son, you\u2019re a friend of ours. We would love to get to know you better.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That would take a measure of grace\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>It\u2019s hard! It\u2019s hard!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014to make that statement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I can think of one family, where that\u2019s actually been their approach\u2014it hadn\u2019t been their approach\u2014and they thought, \u201cActually, no; we must actually reach out in friendship and love to this partner.\u201d It\u2019s now been a year or so later. The partner is now coming to them, saying, \u201cSo what do you believe as Christians?\u201d and now he is feeling <em>safe<\/em> with these parents to actually have quite serious conversations with them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Romans 12:18: \u201cIf possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m just going to tie that verse to Jesus\u2019 statement that we\u2019re to be as wise as serpents in that process and be as innocent as doves. Part of the way you do that, I think, is you get a copy of Sam\u2019s book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt provides you with good, solid, biblical thinking on this question so that you can know how to live at peace with all men. It\u2019s called <em>Is God Anti-Gay?<\/em> You can request a copy when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY, or go online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Again, order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Sam, I think you may have heard us talk about this prior to coming into the studio, but I do have a favorite question. Out of everything you\u2019ve done in all your life, what is the most courageous thing you\u2019ve ever done?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>In one sense it doesn\u2019t <em>feel<\/em> courageous to have done this, but I think it probably is being open on this issue. I\u2019m willing to try to stand for Christ on this issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, it\u2019s been a great privilege too. I don\u2019t particularly enjoy talking about homosexuality, but I <em>love<\/em> talking about Jesus. For me, talking about homosexuality is a wonderful means of talking about the goodness and sufficiency of Jesus. I\u2019m aware that it\u2019s flying in the face of very, very strong cultural currents; and it hasn\u2019t made life easier in lots of respects. A lot of people don\u2019t <em>like<\/em> someone in my situation speaking the message I have, but it\u2019s been a great privilege.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, I want you to know you really are a hero of the faith\u2014period! Thanks for standing strong.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Well, thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t______________________________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. 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