{"id":304366,"date":"2017-02-02T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-02-02T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/embracing-jesus\/"},"modified":"2017-02-02T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-02-02T17:00:00","slug":"embracing-jesus","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/embracing-jesus\/","title":{"rendered":"Embracing Jesus"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Sam Allberry | Series: Is God Anti-Gay? | When Pastor Sam Allberry accepted Christ in his twenties, he assumed God would remove his same-sex desires through prayer. But Allberry knows that God is committed to his good, even if the struggle remains. Allberry reminds believers that marriage only points to the ultimate marriage we have with Jesus Christ.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>When Pastor Sam Allberry accepted Christ in his twenties, he assumed God would remove his same-sex desires through prayer. But Allberry knows that God is committed to his good, even if the struggle remains.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-02-02.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.62M","filesize_raw":"24763703","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2896,2821],"tags":[6193,5671,6192,2684],"podcast_series":[8190],"cwp_profile":[3448],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304366","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-lgbt","category-reaching-out","tag-gay-and-christian","tag-gay-christian","tag-gay-pastor","tag-same-sex-attraction","podcast_series-is-god-anti-gay","cwp_profile-sam-allberry","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304366\/embracing-jesus","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304366\/embracing-jesus","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"GYPCGVA2DD\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/embracing-jesus\/\">Embracing Jesus<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/embracing-jesus\/embed\/#?secret=GYPCGVA2DD\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Embracing Jesus&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"GYPCGVA2DD\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-02-02.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-02-02.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sam Allberry is a 40-year-old single man\u2014a pastor who lives in England, who is also regularly attracted to members of the same sex.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>The particular form of temptation I struggle with the <em>most<\/em> isn\u2019t primarily sexual\u2014it often starts earlier than that\u2014and that\u2019s feeling <em>drawn<\/em> to someone \/ kind of an emotional over-dependency. When I begin to feel <em>that<\/em>, I know that the remedy to that is: \u201cI am the bread of life [John 6:35].\u201d There\u2019s an implied rebuke in that verse\u2014I often need to hear it\u2014\u201cI am the bread of life.\u201d For me, I just need to keep reminding myself: \u201cActually, Jesus is the One who makes me whole. Jesus is the One my soul is hankering for. Jesus is the One who truly satisfies in a way that no earthly relationship can.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, February 2<sup>nd<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey. I'm Bob Lepine. Sam Allberry says that when we\u2019re experiencing any kind of sinful sexual desire, we need to be reminded of the all-sufficiency of Jesus. We\u2019ll hear him talk about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We have a guy, who is with us in the studio today\u2014who, when he was 18 years old, he was confronted with two realities in his life that he had to come to grips with. One was he was attracted to others of the same sex\u2014he was drawn to them physically, romantically, sexually. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the same time, he became convinced that Jesus is who He says He is. All of a sudden, he had to figure out how he was going to live a life faithful to Jesus and deal with his romantic attractions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; it\u2019s a great story of obedience to Christ and also the birth of a great ministry. Sam Allberry joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Sam, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Thank you. It\u2019s good to be with you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>All of our listeners now recognize he\u2019s a southerner\u2014from the United Kingdom. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>From south of London; right? No; I guess it\u2019s actually west of London; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I <em>grew up<\/em> south of London.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There you go\u2014so you\u2019re a southerner.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I am a true southerner.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re a true southerner. He is a pastor in Maidenhead, UK\u2014part of the global speaking team for Ravi Zacharias International Ministries\u2014and he\u2019s written a book called <em>Is God Anti-Gay?<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI ran into a fellow staff member in the halls this morning and he said: \u201cOh, I\u2019m so glad you have Sam Allberry on the radio! I give his book away to all kinds of people\u2014it\u2019s the <em>best<\/em> book! It\u2019s the most balanced book\u2014it\u2019s wholesome \/ it\u2019s good.\u201d So I thought about having him on the radio with you, Sam. He would make a good agent for your book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>If he would like to just follow me around all the time\u2014that would be such an encouragement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, we should say\u2014when you sat down to write this book, as someone who has experienced same-sex attraction during your adult life, you wanted to write a book that was full of truth and grace simultaneously; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Absolutely. I felt a real burden that we needed to have people speaking to this issue from the inside of it, just as sometimes it helps to have someone giving a testimony on suffering who has suffered. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe cultural moment we\u2019re in means that it really will help us to have Christians speaking to this issue, who\u2019ve been dealing with it personally.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And when you say that, you\u2019re not saying that from the standpoint of having experienced a lifestyle of being gay\u2014you\u2019re talking about being a follower of Christ, who still struggles with same-sex attraction, as a man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>That\u2019s correct. So yes; I\u2019ve not been part of\u2014I\u2019ve never had a gay lifestyle, as such \/ I\u2019ve never sort of acted out those feelings\u2014but that is a form of unwanted temptation that I experience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And we should also say that you\u2019ve also not had this experience and gotten married and had three kids; because a lot of the narrative of Christianity, for years, has been: \u201cIf you experience same-sex attraction, God will cure you of that,\u201d and \u201cMaybe you ought to go ahead and get married and have three kids\u2014and that\u2019s part of the cure.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got a lot of people, who have tried that, only to find that that didn\u2019t fix the desires that they were dealing with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>No; and it\u2019s not loving\u2014I\u2019ve heard of situations, where people have married and then only told their wife on their wedding night that they\u2019re experiencing homosexuality. That\u2019s just not kind.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You had come to faith at age 18, about the same time that you were beginning to understand this desire. You spent the next four or five years, not talking to anyone about what you were experiencing\u2014growing in your understanding of who Jesus is \/ following Him as a disciple. In that period of time, did you try to, as folks say today, did you try to \u201cPray away the gay\u201d? Did you try to take girls out and see if things would change?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I did; I did\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014not for a <em>huge<\/em> length of time, I have to say\u2014but I do remember beginning my 20s, thinking, \u201cI want to end my 20s married and as a father,\u201d assuming that, if I wanted that\u2014that it was a noble desire and a godly desire; and therefore, God would allow it to happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, two, or three, or four years of that desire\u2014and things aren\u2019t changing\u2014that had to be frustrating.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>It was. I went through a period\u2014not a very long period\u2014but I did go through <em>a<\/em> period, feeling quite angry with God about that and thinking: \u201cWhy won\u2019t these feelings go away? Surely, I\u2019m trying to do the <em>right<\/em> thing here by aspiring to be a godly husband and a godly father. So why would You not allow me to be able to do that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI say it wasn\u2019t a long period of time\u2014it really wasn\u2019t\u2014because I knew, deep down, I needed to be reminded of this fact\u2014that actually, God is more committed to my joy, and my happiness, and my prosperity in Him than I am; and His ways are good. Therefore, if He was denying me the opportunity of getting married and becoming a father, it was because He was going to show His goodness to me in a different way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, as a result, did you kind of close that door, or is that door continuing to remain open?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>The way I think of it is\u2014I don\u2019t want to presume on God\u2019s will. I remember thinking, \u201cI shouldn\u2019t assume I\u2019ll get married, and I shouldn\u2019t assume I won\u2019t.\u201d I\u2019ve left it at that. What God decides to do\u2014He\u2019s free and sovereign, and He can change feelings. I know of people whose patterns of sexual desire have changed over time \/ I know people whose patterns haven\u2019t changed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have one good friend, who\u2019s still same-sex attracted, but is happily and healthily married to a woman, who\u2014I remember him saying that, as they started to get to know each other \/ they had a very deep friendship\u2014and he began to feel a sense of attraction towards her. I remember him saying: \u201cI didn\u2019t need to be attracted to women. I just needed to be attracted to her.\u201d Even though his general pattern of sexual feelings is still predominantly same-sex attracted, they had sufficient chemistry and romantic attraction\u2014she knew all about his situation, but they have been able to get married. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I wouldn\u2019t rule it out for people who are same-sex attracted, but we have to recognize that God gives us a gift in marriage and He gives us a gift in singleness. Either way, we get given something good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; I\u2019m not being one of those who\u2019s describing marriage as: \u201cFlies on the inside of a screen trying to get out, and the flies on the outside of the screen trying to get in,\u201d\u2014you know, it\u2019s a real relationship with a real person that has plenty of real challenges. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you\u2019re 41 years old now, and\u2014you may not want to answer this question \/ I give you the freedom to push back\u2014is the lack of an attraction toward a woman at the core of why you\u2019re not pursuing relationships with women?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I wouldn\u2019t say that\u2019s at the core of it. I think one of the things God changed in me, during my 20s, was going from thinking, \u201cMarriage is something I have to have,\u201d to thinking, \u201cMarriage is something I might have, but I don\u2019t <em>need<\/em> to have.\u201d I\u2019m grateful for the opportunities for service and for friendships that I have, as a single person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m really enjoying being single and the opportunities that affords. If God introduces me to someone that I could see myself getting married to, I\u2019m sure I would be very thankful to receive the gift of marriage; but I\u2019m not hankering after it. It\u2019s not an absence that is fueling me\u2014it\u2019s a presence\u2014I\u2019m married in Christ. I know that that is the ultimate marriage and the one that most matters. So, I don\u2019t mind now if I don\u2019t get the model of that, because I have the reality.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a pastor and as someone who has lots of close friends, who are married, I\u2019ve seen enough marriages up close to know it\u2019s not always easy. As you say, there are challenges both ways. If I went from being single to being married, I\u2019d be exchanging the struggles of singleness for the struggles of marriage. I wouldn\u2019t be exchanging struggles for no struggles.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>So, I wouldn\u2019t want to sort of rush in, naively.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>One last question along that same line: \u201cWould you say this is a mistake that married people in the church make as they welcome followers of Christ into the church, who are same-sex attracted?\u2014that they want to help them <em>fix<\/em> their attraction \u2018issues\u2019 by getting them married?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I think it\u2019s a big danger. The faulty assumption behind it is that marriage is the goal of the Christian life: \u201cSo your same-sex attraction is a problem; because it\u2019s stopping you from getting married. So if we can fix you up so you can get married, then we can check the box and you\u2019re okay,\u201d\u2014which does not honor what the Bible says about the goodness of singleness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNor does it honor, I think, what the Bible says about human marriage being a pointer to the ultimate marriage, and not ultimate in itself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, I lied\u2014one more question: \u201cDo you find people at your church, who come up to you and say: \u2018Oh, Sam! I have this friend I want to introduce you to,\u2019 with a big, sly grin on their face?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>That has happened\u2014one of the wonderful side effects of being more public about my same-sex attraction is that doesn\u2019t happen anymore. [Laughter] People stopped trying to set me up after I\u2014[Laughter]\u2014it was worth doing it just for that reason alone, actually\u2014[Laughter]\u2014because people\u2014actually, what would tend to happen is\u2014people wouldn\u2019t say, \u201cSam, I have someone I\u2019d like you to meet,\u201d\u2014they would just say: \u201cWe\u2019re inviting some people around. Why don\u2019t you come for a meal?\u201d\u2014and it would be them, another couple, and one single lady. I\u2019m kind of thinking, \u201cOh, I see what\u2019s going on here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Pretty clear with this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to ask you about the specifics of what you do to take every thought captive and to battle against temptation, which you still feel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo in a moment when you\u2019re experiencing temptation, do alarm bells go off? Do you have a pattern you follow? What do you do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I think one of the key things I\u2019ve learned is that you respond to ungodly desire with godly desire. The particular form of temptation I struggle with the <em>most<\/em> isn\u2019t primarily sexual\u2014it often starts earlier than that\u2014and that\u2019s feeling <em>drawn<\/em> to someone\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A relational\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Yes\u2014kind of an emotional over-dependency. When I begin to feel <em>that<\/em>, I know that the remedy to that is: \u201cI am the bread of life.\u201d There\u2019s an implied rebuke in that verse\u2014that I often need to hear\u2014it\u2019s: \u201cI am the bread of life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn my moment of temptation, I\u2019m treating someone else as though <em>they<\/em> are the bread of life\u2014that this is the person that will make me feel complete, and whole, and perfectly understood, and I can ride off into the kind of friendship sunset. For me, I just need to keep reminding myself: \u201cActually, Jesus is the One who makes me whole. Jesus is the One my soul is hankering for. Jesus is the One who truly satisfies in a way that no earthly relationship can.\u201d So, for me, the main point of temptation is often at <em>that<\/em> point\u2014it\u2019s the: \u201cThis <em>feels<\/em> like someone who can kind of make life completely click.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019ve talked to people, who will say, \u201cThe intimacy that I have with Jesus, without skin on\u2014there\u2019s something about having a person across the table that you experience emotional intimacy with that\u2014I can\u2019t have with Jesus, because He\u2019s not across the table from me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>And that\u2019s\u2014there\u2019s a lot of truth in that. We\u2019re not designed to just be intimate with Jesus and only intimate with Him. God has made us to be relational and social and to have intimacy, at a human level\u2014not just at a vertical level with God\u2014but horizontally with one another. Marriage is the most\u2014is the deepest form of human intimacy we can experience\u2014but it\u2019s not the <em>only<\/em> form of intimacy\u2014and actually, the intimacy we can enjoy in good friendship, I\u2019ve realized, is wonderful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe way I often think about it is\u2014I don\u2019t have the depth of intimacy with any one person that a married friend might have; but through being single, I can have a <em>breadth<\/em> of intimacy with a range of close friends that I wouldn\u2019t be able to have if I was married. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Bible says I can live without sex. I\u2019m not designed to live without intimacy, and so I\u2019ve come to <em>hugely<\/em> value good friendships. The wonderful thing about being single is\u2014you have more capacity for friendship, and therefore, with a range of people, which is a <em>huge<\/em> privilege. I\u2019ve begun to realize, actually, I have more intimacy with the friendships that I have than even some married people I know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The Bible says you can live without sex; but the culture we live in shouts, and screams, and whispers, and continues its barrage: \u201cOh no; you can\u2019t! What you\u2019re denying yourself is the epitome.\u201d What do you do with that message?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>And sadly that message can come from within the church as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Oh, wow; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>So, we know that <em>the<\/em> most fully-human and complete person who ever lived was Jesus Christ, who was never married \/ who never had sex. So we <em>can\u2019t<\/em> say that sex is <em>intrinsic<\/em> to human fulfillment; otherwise, we\u2019re denying the full humanity of Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember hearing one Christian leader say, \u201cYou can\u2019t expect someone to live without romantic hope.\u201d I remember thinking, \u201cThat\u2019s a dangerous thing to say; because it implies <em>romantic<\/em> intimacy is the key, fundamental, essential ingredient for a complete human life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Sounds like idolatry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>And it <em>is<\/em>. It\u2019s funny\u2014just as I heard that person say that\u2014I was preaching through 1 John. I came to the bit, where it says, \u201cIf anyone denies that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, he is antichrist.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember thinking, actually: \u201cThat is the effects of that kind of comment. If you say you have to have sex \/ you have to have a romantic relationship to be healthy, as a human being, you are denying the full humanity of Jesus. You are denying that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. You might not <em>know<\/em> that you\u2019re doing that, but you <em>are<\/em>\u2014it\u2019s the spirit of antichrist.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I just want to go back, Sam, a moment, to something you said earlier about temptation. I was thinking about reading this passage to our listeners\u2014they just need to know this, because these are some of the best words in the Bible about how to handle temptation and how it works on us. James, Chapter 1, verse 13\u2014it says, \u201cLet no one say when he is tempted, \u2018I am being tempted by God,\u2019 for God cannot be tempted with evil, and He Himself tempts no one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cBut each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then, desire, when it has been conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin\u201d\u2014this is interesting\u2014\u201cand sin, when it is fully grown, brings forth death.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s a progression there of the lure, the enticement, the taking of the bait\u2014fiddling with it, coddling it, entertaining it\u2014finally, experiencing it. When God warns us about something, He\u2019s spot on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He\u2019s doing it for your own good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Yes; the thing that really hit me from that passage in James\u2014it was brought home to me when a friend of mine, who\u2019s in his late 50s \/ and a very tall, strong guy, came up to me and said: \u201cFor the first time in my life, I have just lost an arm wrestle with my son. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cMy son is now stronger than I am.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe lie we so often believe is that: \u201cIf I just give in to sin, I\u2019m just getting it out of my system. That\u2019ll help.\u201d James is warning us that, actually, sin gives birth, grows up, and gets stronger than us. The more we feed it, the stronger it gets; and we will end up with a son who is stronger than us, and we will have <em>no<\/em> capacity to resist it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; and it may be that there are listeners, who are thinking: \u201cI\u2019ve had these desires. I\u2019ve wrestled with this.\u201d I think it would be very encouraging for you \/ very helpful for you to get a copy of Sam Allberry\u2019s book\u2014<em>Is God Anti-Gay? And Other Questions About Homosexuality, the Bible, and Same-Sex Attraction<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014first of all, to understand <em>clearly<\/em> what the Bible teaches; and then secondly, to hear from somebody who, like you, has had this same struggle, and hear how he has applied what the Scripture teaches in his own life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have copies of Sam Allberry\u2019s book\u2014<em>Is God Anti-Gay?<\/em>\u2014in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. and you can order copies of the book. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order when you call us\u2014our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, this is a subject that we have revisited a number of times over the last two or three years. The reason is because it\u2019s one of the subjects in this culture where, to hold firm, biblically\u2014to have a biblical worldview around sexuality\u2014is not going to make you popular. In fact, you could face persecution for believing what the Bible teaches about same-sex attraction and about homosexuality.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur goal, here at FamilyLife, is to continue to provide practical biblical help and hope around the kinds of issues you may face in your family or the kinds of issues that we\u2019re facing in the culture, where you may need to know how to stand firm, biblically. Our goal, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, is to see every home become a godly home. We want to provide practical biblical help and hope for every marriage and every family. We\u2019re grateful for those of you, who are not only regular listeners, but those of you who contribute to help cover the cost of producing and syndicating this daily radio program.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe could not do what we do here each day if it weren\u2019t for Legacy Partners, who contribute on a monthly basis, or those of you who will, from time to time, make a donation. Maybe it\u2019s a subject you hear or a topic that is particularly helpful for you that causes you to go online at FamilyLifeToday.com and make a donation or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Or maybe something prompts you to mail a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. Whatever it is, we\u2019re grateful for your responsiveness and your partnership in this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, if you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d love to send you a copy of Dennis and Barbara Rainey\u2019s daily devotional guide called <em>Moments with You<\/em>. It\u2019s great for husbands and wives to use each day of the year as a regular prompt for praying together and something that will point you to the Scriptures each day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s our gift to you when you help with a donation this month in support of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow. Sam Allberry\u2019s going to be here again, and we\u2019re going to talk about what a mom and a dad ought to do if a son or a daughter steps up and says, \u201cI think I\u2019m gay.\u201d We\u2019ll talk about that tomorrow. I hope you can join us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t______________________________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\"><u>donating today<\/u><\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["23.62M"],"filesize_raw":["24763703"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-304366.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-304366.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Pastor Sam Allberry accepted Christ in his twenties, he assumed God would remove his same-sex desires through prayer. But Allberry knows that God is committed to his good, even if the struggle remains.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-02-02.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sam Allberry is a 40-year-old single man\u2014a pastor who lives in England, who is also regularly attracted to members of the same sex.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>The particular form of temptation I struggle with the <em>most<\/em> isn\u2019t primarily sexual\u2014it often starts earlier than that\u2014and that\u2019s feeling <em>drawn<\/em> to someone \/ kind of an emotional over-dependency. When I begin to feel <em>that<\/em>, I know that the remedy to that is: \u201cI am the bread of life [John 6:35].\u201d There\u2019s an implied rebuke in that verse\u2014I often need to hear it\u2014\u201cI am the bread of life.\u201d For me, I just need to keep reminding myself: \u201cActually, Jesus is the One who makes me whole. Jesus is the One my soul is hankering for. Jesus is the One who truly satisfies in a way that no earthly relationship can.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, February 2<sup>nd<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey. I'm Bob Lepine. Sam Allberry says that when we\u2019re experiencing any kind of sinful sexual desire, we need to be reminded of the all-sufficiency of Jesus. We\u2019ll hear him talk about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We have a guy, who is with us in the studio today\u2014who, when he was 18 years old, he was confronted with two realities in his life that he had to come to grips with. One was he was attracted to others of the same sex\u2014he was drawn to them physically, romantically, sexually. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the same time, he became convinced that Jesus is who He says He is. All of a sudden, he had to figure out how he was going to live a life faithful to Jesus and deal with his romantic attractions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; it\u2019s a great story of obedience to Christ and also the birth of a great ministry. Sam Allberry joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Sam, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Thank you. It\u2019s good to be with you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>All of our listeners now recognize he\u2019s a southerner\u2014from the United Kingdom. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>From south of London; right? No; I guess it\u2019s actually west of London; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I <em>grew up<\/em> south of London.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>There you go\u2014so you\u2019re a southerner.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I am a true southerner.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re a true southerner. He is a pastor in Maidenhead, UK\u2014part of the global speaking team for Ravi Zacharias International Ministries\u2014and he\u2019s written a book called <em>Is God Anti-Gay?<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI ran into a fellow staff member in the halls this morning and he said: \u201cOh, I\u2019m so glad you have Sam Allberry on the radio! I give his book away to all kinds of people\u2014it\u2019s the <em>best<\/em> book! It\u2019s the most balanced book\u2014it\u2019s wholesome \/ it\u2019s good.\u201d So I thought about having him on the radio with you, Sam. He would make a good agent for your book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>If he would like to just follow me around all the time\u2014that would be such an encouragement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, we should say\u2014when you sat down to write this book, as someone who has experienced same-sex attraction during your adult life, you wanted to write a book that was full of truth and grace simultaneously; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Absolutely. I felt a real burden that we needed to have people speaking to this issue from the inside of it, just as sometimes it helps to have someone giving a testimony on suffering who has suffered. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe cultural moment we\u2019re in means that it really will help us to have Christians speaking to this issue, who\u2019ve been dealing with it personally.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And when you say that, you\u2019re not saying that from the standpoint of having experienced a lifestyle of being gay\u2014you\u2019re talking about being a follower of Christ, who still struggles with same-sex attraction, as a man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>That\u2019s correct. So yes; I\u2019ve not been part of\u2014I\u2019ve never had a gay lifestyle, as such \/ I\u2019ve never sort of acted out those feelings\u2014but that is a form of unwanted temptation that I experience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And we should also say that you\u2019ve also not had this experience and gotten married and had three kids; because a lot of the narrative of Christianity, for years, has been: \u201cIf you experience same-sex attraction, God will cure you of that,\u201d and \u201cMaybe you ought to go ahead and get married and have three kids\u2014and that\u2019s part of the cure.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got a lot of people, who have tried that, only to find that that didn\u2019t fix the desires that they were dealing with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>No; and it\u2019s not loving\u2014I\u2019ve heard of situations, where people have married and then only told their wife on their wedding night that they\u2019re experiencing homosexuality. That\u2019s just not kind.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You had come to faith at age 18, about the same time that you were beginning to understand this desire. You spent the next four or five years, not talking to anyone about what you were experiencing\u2014growing in your understanding of who Jesus is \/ following Him as a disciple. In that period of time, did you try to, as folks say today, did you try to \u201cPray away the gay\u201d? Did you try to take girls out and see if things would change?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I did; I did\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014not for a <em>huge<\/em> length of time, I have to say\u2014but I do remember beginning my 20s, thinking, \u201cI want to end my 20s married and as a father,\u201d assuming that, if I wanted that\u2014that it was a noble desire and a godly desire; and therefore, God would allow it to happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, two, or three, or four years of that desire\u2014and things aren\u2019t changing\u2014that had to be frustrating.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>It was. I went through a period\u2014not a very long period\u2014but I did go through <em>a<\/em> period, feeling quite angry with God about that and thinking: \u201cWhy won\u2019t these feelings go away? Surely, I\u2019m trying to do the <em>right<\/em> thing here by aspiring to be a godly husband and a godly father. So why would You not allow me to be able to do that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI say it wasn\u2019t a long period of time\u2014it really wasn\u2019t\u2014because I knew, deep down, I needed to be reminded of this fact\u2014that actually, God is more committed to my joy, and my happiness, and my prosperity in Him than I am; and His ways are good. Therefore, if He was denying me the opportunity of getting married and becoming a father, it was because He was going to show His goodness to me in a different way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, as a result, did you kind of close that door, or is that door continuing to remain open?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>The way I think of it is\u2014I don\u2019t want to presume on God\u2019s will. I remember thinking, \u201cI shouldn\u2019t assume I\u2019ll get married, and I shouldn\u2019t assume I won\u2019t.\u201d I\u2019ve left it at that. What God decides to do\u2014He\u2019s free and sovereign, and He can change feelings. I know of people whose patterns of sexual desire have changed over time \/ I know people whose patterns haven\u2019t changed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have one good friend, who\u2019s still same-sex attracted, but is happily and healthily married to a woman, who\u2014I remember him saying that, as they started to get to know each other \/ they had a very deep friendship\u2014and he began to feel a sense of attraction towards her. I remember him saying: \u201cI didn\u2019t need to be attracted to women. I just needed to be attracted to her.\u201d Even though his general pattern of sexual feelings is still predominantly same-sex attracted, they had sufficient chemistry and romantic attraction\u2014she knew all about his situation, but they have been able to get married. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I wouldn\u2019t rule it out for people who are same-sex attracted, but we have to recognize that God gives us a gift in marriage and He gives us a gift in singleness. Either way, we get given something good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; I\u2019m not being one of those who\u2019s describing marriage as: \u201cFlies on the inside of a screen trying to get out, and the flies on the outside of the screen trying to get in,\u201d\u2014you know, it\u2019s a real relationship with a real person that has plenty of real challenges. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you\u2019re 41 years old now, and\u2014you may not want to answer this question \/ I give you the freedom to push back\u2014is the lack of an attraction toward a woman at the core of why you\u2019re not pursuing relationships with women?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I wouldn\u2019t say that\u2019s at the core of it. I think one of the things God changed in me, during my 20s, was going from thinking, \u201cMarriage is something I have to have,\u201d to thinking, \u201cMarriage is something I might have, but I don\u2019t <em>need<\/em> to have.\u201d I\u2019m grateful for the opportunities for service and for friendships that I have, as a single person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m really enjoying being single and the opportunities that affords. If God introduces me to someone that I could see myself getting married to, I\u2019m sure I would be very thankful to receive the gift of marriage; but I\u2019m not hankering after it. It\u2019s not an absence that is fueling me\u2014it\u2019s a presence\u2014I\u2019m married in Christ. I know that that is the ultimate marriage and the one that most matters. So, I don\u2019t mind now if I don\u2019t get the model of that, because I have the reality.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a pastor and as someone who has lots of close friends, who are married, I\u2019ve seen enough marriages up close to know it\u2019s not always easy. As you say, there are challenges both ways. If I went from being single to being married, I\u2019d be exchanging the struggles of singleness for the struggles of marriage. I wouldn\u2019t be exchanging struggles for no struggles.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>So, I wouldn\u2019t want to sort of rush in, naively.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>One last question along that same line: \u201cWould you say this is a mistake that married people in the church make as they welcome followers of Christ into the church, who are same-sex attracted?\u2014that they want to help them <em>fix<\/em> their attraction \u2018issues\u2019 by getting them married?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I think it\u2019s a big danger. The faulty assumption behind it is that marriage is the goal of the Christian life: \u201cSo your same-sex attraction is a problem; because it\u2019s stopping you from getting married. So if we can fix you up so you can get married, then we can check the box and you\u2019re okay,\u201d\u2014which does not honor what the Bible says about the goodness of singleness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNor does it honor, I think, what the Bible says about human marriage being a pointer to the ultimate marriage, and not ultimate in itself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, I lied\u2014one more question: \u201cDo you find people at your church, who come up to you and say: \u2018Oh, Sam! I have this friend I want to introduce you to,\u2019 with a big, sly grin on their face?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>That has happened\u2014one of the wonderful side effects of being more public about my same-sex attraction is that doesn\u2019t happen anymore. [Laughter] People stopped trying to set me up after I\u2014[Laughter]\u2014it was worth doing it just for that reason alone, actually\u2014[Laughter]\u2014because people\u2014actually, what would tend to happen is\u2014people wouldn\u2019t say, \u201cSam, I have someone I\u2019d like you to meet,\u201d\u2014they would just say: \u201cWe\u2019re inviting some people around. Why don\u2019t you come for a meal?\u201d\u2014and it would be them, another couple, and one single lady. I\u2019m kind of thinking, \u201cOh, I see what\u2019s going on here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Pretty clear with this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to ask you about the specifics of what you do to take every thought captive and to battle against temptation, which you still feel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo in a moment when you\u2019re experiencing temptation, do alarm bells go off? Do you have a pattern you follow? What do you do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>I think one of the key things I\u2019ve learned is that you respond to ungodly desire with godly desire. The particular form of temptation I struggle with the <em>most<\/em> isn\u2019t primarily sexual\u2014it often starts earlier than that\u2014and that\u2019s feeling <em>drawn<\/em> to someone\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>A relational\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Yes\u2014kind of an emotional over-dependency. When I begin to feel <em>that<\/em>, I know that the remedy to that is: \u201cI am the bread of life.\u201d There\u2019s an implied rebuke in that verse\u2014that I often need to hear\u2014it\u2019s: \u201cI am the bread of life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn my moment of temptation, I\u2019m treating someone else as though <em>they<\/em> are the bread of life\u2014that this is the person that will make me feel complete, and whole, and perfectly understood, and I can ride off into the kind of friendship sunset. For me, I just need to keep reminding myself: \u201cActually, Jesus is the One who makes me whole. Jesus is the One my soul is hankering for. Jesus is the One who truly satisfies in a way that no earthly relationship can.\u201d So, for me, the main point of temptation is often at <em>that<\/em> point\u2014it\u2019s the: \u201cThis <em>feels<\/em> like someone who can kind of make life completely click.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019ve talked to people, who will say, \u201cThe intimacy that I have with Jesus, without skin on\u2014there\u2019s something about having a person across the table that you experience emotional intimacy with that\u2014I can\u2019t have with Jesus, because He\u2019s not across the table from me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>And that\u2019s\u2014there\u2019s a lot of truth in that. We\u2019re not designed to just be intimate with Jesus and only intimate with Him. God has made us to be relational and social and to have intimacy, at a human level\u2014not just at a vertical level with God\u2014but horizontally with one another. Marriage is the most\u2014is the deepest form of human intimacy we can experience\u2014but it\u2019s not the <em>only<\/em> form of intimacy\u2014and actually, the intimacy we can enjoy in good friendship, I\u2019ve realized, is wonderful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe way I often think about it is\u2014I don\u2019t have the depth of intimacy with any one person that a married friend might have; but through being single, I can have a <em>breadth<\/em> of intimacy with a range of close friends that I wouldn\u2019t be able to have if I was married. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Bible says I can live without sex. I\u2019m not designed to live without intimacy, and so I\u2019ve come to <em>hugely<\/em> value good friendships. The wonderful thing about being single is\u2014you have more capacity for friendship, and therefore, with a range of people, which is a <em>huge<\/em> privilege. I\u2019ve begun to realize, actually, I have more intimacy with the friendships that I have than even some married people I know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The Bible says you can live without sex; but the culture we live in shouts, and screams, and whispers, and continues its barrage: \u201cOh no; you can\u2019t! What you\u2019re denying yourself is the epitome.\u201d What do you do with that message?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>And sadly that message can come from within the church as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Oh, wow; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>So, we know that <em>the<\/em> most fully-human and complete person who ever lived was Jesus Christ, who was never married \/ who never had sex. So we <em>can\u2019t<\/em> say that sex is <em>intrinsic<\/em> to human fulfillment; otherwise, we\u2019re denying the full humanity of Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember hearing one Christian leader say, \u201cYou can\u2019t expect someone to live without romantic hope.\u201d I remember thinking, \u201cThat\u2019s a dangerous thing to say; because it implies <em>romantic<\/em> intimacy is the key, fundamental, essential ingredient for a complete human life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Sounds like idolatry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>And it <em>is<\/em>. It\u2019s funny\u2014just as I heard that person say that\u2014I was preaching through 1 John. I came to the bit, where it says, \u201cIf anyone denies that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, he is antichrist.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember thinking, actually: \u201cThat is the effects of that kind of comment. If you say you have to have sex \/ you have to have a romantic relationship to be healthy, as a human being, you are denying the full humanity of Jesus. You are denying that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. You might not <em>know<\/em> that you\u2019re doing that, but you <em>are<\/em>\u2014it\u2019s the spirit of antichrist.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I just want to go back, Sam, a moment, to something you said earlier about temptation. I was thinking about reading this passage to our listeners\u2014they just need to know this, because these are some of the best words in the Bible about how to handle temptation and how it works on us. James, Chapter 1, verse 13\u2014it says, \u201cLet no one say when he is tempted, \u2018I am being tempted by God,\u2019 for God cannot be tempted with evil, and He Himself tempts no one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cBut each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then, desire, when it has been conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin\u201d\u2014this is interesting\u2014\u201cand sin, when it is fully grown, brings forth death.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s a progression there of the lure, the enticement, the taking of the bait\u2014fiddling with it, coddling it, entertaining it\u2014finally, experiencing it. When God warns us about something, He\u2019s spot on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He\u2019s doing it for your own good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sam: <\/strong>Yes; the thing that really hit me from that passage in James\u2014it was brought home to me when a friend of mine, who\u2019s in his late 50s \/ and a very tall, strong guy, came up to me and said: \u201cFor the first time in my life, I have just lost an arm wrestle with my son. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cMy son is now stronger than I am.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe lie we so often believe is that: \u201cIf I just give in to sin, I\u2019m just getting it out of my system. That\u2019ll help.\u201d James is warning us that, actually, sin gives birth, grows up, and gets stronger than us. The more we feed it, the stronger it gets; and we will end up with a son who is stronger than us, and we will have <em>no<\/em> capacity to resist it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; and it may be that there are listeners, who are thinking: \u201cI\u2019ve had these desires. I\u2019ve wrestled with this.\u201d I think it would be very encouraging for you \/ very helpful for you to get a copy of Sam Allberry\u2019s book\u2014<em>Is God Anti-Gay? And Other Questions About Homosexuality, the Bible, and Same-Sex Attraction<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014first of all, to understand <em>clearly<\/em> what the Bible teaches; and then secondly, to hear from somebody who, like you, has had this same struggle, and hear how he has applied what the Scripture teaches in his own life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have copies of Sam Allberry\u2019s book\u2014<em>Is God Anti-Gay?<\/em>\u2014in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. and you can order copies of the book. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order when you call us\u2014our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, this is a subject that we have revisited a number of times over the last two or three years. The reason is because it\u2019s one of the subjects in this culture where, to hold firm, biblically\u2014to have a biblical worldview around sexuality\u2014is not going to make you popular. In fact, you could face persecution for believing what the Bible teaches about same-sex attraction and about homosexuality.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur goal, here at FamilyLife, is to continue to provide practical biblical help and hope around the kinds of issues you may face in your family or the kinds of issues that we\u2019re facing in the culture, where you may need to know how to stand firm, biblically. Our goal, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, is to see every home become a godly home. We want to provide practical biblical help and hope for every marriage and every family. We\u2019re grateful for those of you, who are not only regular listeners, but those of you who contribute to help cover the cost of producing and syndicating this daily radio program.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe could not do what we do here each day if it weren\u2019t for Legacy Partners, who contribute on a monthly basis, or those of you who will, from time to time, make a donation. Maybe it\u2019s a subject you hear or a topic that is particularly helpful for you that causes you to go online at FamilyLifeToday.com and make a donation or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Or maybe something prompts you to mail a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. Whatever it is, we\u2019re grateful for your responsiveness and your partnership in this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, if you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d love to send you a copy of Dennis and Barbara Rainey\u2019s daily devotional guide called <em>Moments with You<\/em>. It\u2019s great for husbands and wives to use each day of the year as a regular prompt for praying together and something that will point you to the Scriptures each day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s our gift to you when you help with a donation this month in support of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow. Sam Allberry\u2019s going to be here again, and we\u2019re going to talk about what a mom and a dad ought to do if a son or a daughter steps up and says, \u201cI think I\u2019m gay.\u201d We\u2019ll talk about that tomorrow. I hope you can join us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t______________________________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\"><u>donating today<\/u><\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. 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