{"id":304362,"date":"2017-01-31T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2017-01-31T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/befriending-the-depressed\/"},"modified":"2017-01-31T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2017-01-31T17:00:00","slug":"befriending-the-depressed","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/befriending-the-depressed\/","title":{"rendered":"Befriending the Depressed"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Scott Sauls, author of &#8220;Befriend,&#8221; opens up about his season of anxiety and depression. Find out what you can do to come alongside a struggling friend mired in depression.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-01-31.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"25.6M","filesize_raw":"26840099","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2867,2822,2821],"tags":[6187,4009,4584,6188,6189],"podcast_series":[8189],"cwp_profile":[3442],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-304362","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-church-involvement","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-reaching-out","tag-befriend","tag-depression","tag-fear","tag-people-not-like-you","tag-pursue-friendships","podcast_series-befriend","cwp_profile-scott-sauls","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/304362\/befriending-the-depressed","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/304362\/befriending-the-depressed","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"E5XvUo0Y6o\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/befriending-the-depressed\/\">Befriending the Depressed<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/befriending-the-depressed\/embed\/#?secret=E5XvUo0Y6o\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Befriending the Depressed&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"E5XvUo0Y6o\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Scott Sauls, author of \"Befriend,\" opens up about his season of anxiety and depression. Find out what you can do to come alongside a struggling friend mired in depression.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2017-01-31.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you\u2019re facing a trial or a season of suffering, that\u2019s when you really need good friends. If you have friends who are in seasons like that, you need to learn how to be the best friend you can be. Here\u2019s pastor Scott Sauls.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: The eternal perspective on things really becomes incredibly important and significant in those moments of tragedy or sorrow\u2014to know that we\u2019re living in the middle chapters, right now, of a story. The only everlasting chapter of the story that we\u2019re in right now is the last one. We\u2019re not there yet, even though it has already been written. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that for Christians\u2014going through really, really difficult times \/ Christians in particular\u2014that\u2019s an important thing to lay hold of\u2014that were not meant to experience heaven on earth right now. We\u2019re in a broken in-between time, right now, where the fall still affects us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, January 31<sup>st<\/sup>. Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00 <\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Bible says there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother. We\u2019ll talk today about what that kind of friendship looks like and how to be that kind of friend. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Can you think of someone in your life\u2014who was an unlikely or unusual friendship\u2014some relationship that you developed with someone, where you might not have thought there was chemistry there or anything to relate around?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Multiple times.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>: Really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; you bet. I mean, what person\u2014who has lived more than six decades\u2014hasn\u2019t run across people, who you end up in relationship with, where you go, \u201cYou know, this is really an interesting friendship here\u201d? Friendships, I think, owe their value in this culture due to their scarcity. If you\u2019re scarce of a few friendships or need some, we have a guest, Scott Sauls, who\u2019s going to exhort you to move out of your comfort zone, past perhaps a militarized zone, and into the friendship zone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tScott\u2014welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: Thank you for having me again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>: Scott is the pastor of Christ Presbyterian Church. He and his wife Patti have been married since 1995. They have two daughters. He has written a book called <em>Befriend: Create Belonging in an Age of Judgment, Isolation, and Fear<\/em>. It\u2019s really talking about how we all go through periods of life when we need people to reach out to us, but you\u2019re exhorting others to reach out to those that they wouldn\u2019t naturally perhaps be attracted to or wanting to be a part of. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou actually went through something in your life, where you needed people to reach out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: Yes; I think you\u2019re probably referring to the chapter where I talk about my season with anxiety and depression. That\u2019s probably one of the most transparent self-disclosing things I\u2019ve ever put in print, but it was a pretty devastating season. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was probably the season of my life where I felt more helpless than ever before, because I had just emotionally collapsed and was afraid of going to bed at night because I was pretty sure I wouldn\u2019t be able to fall asleep. Even sleeping medication didn\u2019t help put me to sleep. I was afraid to get up in the morning. I was afraid when the sun came up; because I would have to face another day of just this foreboding feeling of restlessness, anxiety, and fear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>: What was going on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: I think a lot of fear about the future and just meditating on worst-case scenarios. What was critical for me was really just two people in my life\u2014my brother and my wife. They both had the common experience of also having had a season of true anxiety and depression, sort of on the clinical level, so they were able to assure me \/ reassure me that: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cOne thing is for sure\u2014you never have to be alone in this. Call me 24\/7,\u201d\u2014or my wife \/ obviously, we live together\u2014so she would wake up with me in the middle of the night and just sort of scratch my back, and have conversation with me, and talk me down off the cliff of my fears. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCommunity was <em>so<\/em> important because, when you are experiencing anxiety or depression, you just want to crawl into a hole and isolate yourself. You believe \/ you truly believe that nobody wants to help you, because you are just going to be a burden. I think part of that is a part of our culture, where we are pretty consumer-istic about the way we think about relationships. We just assume that nobody is going to want to be in relationship with us when we\u2019re down in the dumps and really struggling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA lot of our relationships, without realizing it\u2014we approach them in a transactional way\u2014we\u2019re kind of subconsciously asking the question: \u201cWhat\u2019s in this for me? Is this relationship going to be more <em>costly<\/em> for me or more beneficial for me?\u201d and \u201cIf it\u2019s more costly, then I\u2019m out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIf it\u2019s more beneficial, then I\u2019m in. I just need to figure out a way to fool the person that they\u2019re getting the greater benefit.\u201d It goes on and on and on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, really, this is a call back to the kind of community that Jesus calls us into. Look at the way that Paul speaks to Corinth\u2014what a high-maintenance group of people; right? They\u2019ve got so many different problems\u2014the famous love chapter that we read in our wedding ceremonies. We didn\u2019t realize\u2014at least, Patti and I didn\u2019t\u2014that \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t1 Corinthians 13 \/ the love chapter is actually one of the strongest rebukes in the whole Bible; because it was everything that the Corinthians were not. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd yet, Paul just moves toward them and has hope for them\u2014and to quote my mentor, Tim Keller\u2014he was able \/ Paul was\u2014to look at the caterpillar and envision the butterfly\u2014kind of love the person, not only for who they are in front of you as a person who bears the image of God, but as somebody, who in Christ, is destined for something magnificent and whole.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>: Scott, I heard, last night, about an acquaintance of mine, who is in the kind of situation you were in at that point in your life, going through a season of discouragement\/depression. It\u2019s really gripping \/ it\u2019s paralyzing for this friend. I think to myself, \u201cI don\u2019t know what to do!\u201d I mean, as we discussed it among friends last night, we said, \u201cWe need to pray for this person.\u201d Certainly, that is appropriate; but as I think about moving <em>toward<\/em> that person, I get a little anxious myself, thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t know what to say to someone who is in that situation.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: Yes; I think the book of Job is really helpful. The best thing that his friends did was show up. The worst thing that they did was start talking. That\u2019s not to say that you shouldn\u2019t enter in and start talking\u2014it\u2019s really what you say. What Job\u2019s friends tried to do was diagnose his situation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the worst thing you can do\u2014if you\u2019re not a professional in these things\u2014is to try to diagnose it and to try to talk the person out of their depression or their anxiety. The most important message for me during that season was: \u201cI\u2019m here, and I\u2019m not going anywhere. I\u2019m with you. I don\u2019t understand what you\u2019re going through,\u201d or \u201cI do understand, because I\u2019ve been there.\u201d Don\u2019t say you do understand if you haven\u2019t been there; but if you have been there, it\u2019s immensely helpful that you do understand. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the main message that that person needs to hear is that: \u201cYou\u2019re not alone and you\u2019re not going to be alone.\u201d For me, that was incredibly powerful\u2014it was a picture of Christ \/ the gospel\u2014you know, He says He will never leave us \/ He will never forsake us. He doesn\u2019t place conditions on us. He doesn\u2019t say, \u201cIf you become a burden \/ if you become high maintenance, I\u2019m out.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 He says the opposite.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>: You mention one of the two people God used in your life was your wife.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>: You\u2019d been married how long to Patti at that point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: Oh, boy\u2014maybe 16 years at that point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>: Wow! Did she admit, after you went through this, ever being frightened or wondering if she was going to lose her husband in the midst of this?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: No; because she had been there before, herself, where she\u2014her words, when the anxiety first hit her were, \u201cI think I need to be checked into a mental institution.\u201d Then she went to a counselor\u2014the counselor said: \u201cNo; this is classic. This is anxiety. You\u2019re having anxiety attacks.\u201d Being able to have walked through, and been prayed through, and supported through that season, herself, she had a lot more confidence than I did that I would <em>emerge<\/em> from this. Really, <em>her<\/em> confidence\u2014you know how it talks about people held Moses\u2019 arms up when he was too tired to pray himself\u2014her confidence that God works through these processes really helped to carry me through. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd my brother was the same way, because he\u2019d had the same experience. Really, in truth\u2014say the anxiety and depression never lifted\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0\u2014even if that were the case\u2014<em>still<\/em>, as a Christian, my long-term very worst-case scenario is resurrection and everlasting life, where all of this will be taken away. The eternal perspective on things really becomes incredibly important and significant in those moments of tragedy or sorrow\u2014to know that we\u2019re living in the middle chapters, right now, of the story. The only everlasting chapter of the story that we\u2019re in right now is the last one. We\u2019re not there yet, even though it has already been written.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think for Christians\u2014going through really, really difficult times \/ Christians in particular\u2014that\u2019s an important thing to lay hold of\u2014that were not meant to experience heaven on earth right now. We\u2019re in a broken in-between time, right now, where the fall still affects us; <em>but <\/em>the last chapter\u2014\u201c\u2026the happily ever after,\u201d\u2014is there, and the \u201c\u2026happily ever after,\u201d is <em>true<\/em>. It\u2019s the very worst it will be for us in a 100 years\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014for every one of us, the <em>worst<\/em> it can be for us is complete, absolute, irrevocable bliss\u2014that\u2019s something to hold onto.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>: And you\u2019re speaking, at the point, of the person, who has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and <em>knows<\/em> him as their Savior and Master. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: For a person, who does not have Christ, there\u2019s really no hope. I mean, the worst thing that could happen to us in this life seems like paradise relative to what it will be in eternity without Christ\u2014I can\u2019t imagine!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>: Did your anxiety and depression lift suddenly or gradually? Did you wake up one day and go, \u201cHey, I\u2019m feeling better than I used to\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: It was more gradual. But it in a lot of what gave me growing strength was the relationship. It wasn\u2019t just my wife and my brother, but they were the key sort of anchor \/ everyday anchors. There were some\u2014I mean, I realize, too, that I had a great community around me. I had people who loved me, who were saying: \u201cLook, you guys. We\u2019ll do anything for you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe don\u2019t realize how much the people around us really love us until we\u2019re in crisis, which is another life lesson that maybe we should tell each other more. Maybe we need not to wait until a crisis or until somebody is on the brink of death to actually tell people how much they mean to us. But there\u2019s something about suffering that brings those conversations out more, which was really powerful for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>: And do you ever sense today that the dark cloud is coming back?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: I don\u2019t think a whole lot about it these days; but at the same time, I don\u2019t discount the possibility that it could.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>: It sounds like your way out of darkness was a lot of reminding yourself of what\u2019s really true about this life and about the next life\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>: \u2014and meditating on that. I\u2019m not trying to simplify the complexity of what anxiety attacks, or panic attacks, or depression can be in someone\u2019s life; but that sounded like it was pretty central to how you got better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: Yes; a key Scripture that my wife used and went back to, over and over again, when she went through a season like this was where Paul talks about demolishing strongholds by taking captive every thought and making it obedient to Christ [2 Corinthians 10:5]. You know, Paul talks, in Romans 12, about how we\u2019re transformed by the renewing of our minds. The transformation of everything about us begins with our thought life being formed by the truth\u2014and things that aren\u2019t true being confronted with the truth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0A friend of mine\u2014he used to be my professor, and he\u2019s been a mentor ever since\u2014Jerram Barrs \/ he\u2019s a professor at Covenant Theological Seminary in St. Louis. I went through a very difficult, personal season of life when I was a seminary student. On my worst days, he would say: \u201cScott, you need to talk to yourself more than you listen to yourself. You need to continue to teach to yourself what\u2019s true.\u201d There is something to be said for that, but we also need people around us encouraging us with what is true as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>: And I\u2019m reminded, myself\u2014on more than one occasion\u2014that whatever I\u2019m facing today\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014these are light and momentary afflictions that are producing in me an eternal weight of glory. That doesn\u2019t do away with the fact that it\u2019s a real affliction, but it does give it a perspective.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: Yes\u2014\u201c\u2026light and momentary\u2026\u201d\u2014important to add the words that Paul uses\u2014\u201cin comparison to\u2026\u201d If I don\u2019t have Christ\u2014back to your question\u2014I\u2019ve got nothing to compare these afflictions to except whatever my best-case scenario is before I die. Whereas, Paul is saying we fix our eyes \u201cnot on what we see, but on things we don\u2019t see; what we see is temporary; what we can\u2019t see is eternal.\u201d And so he is taking beatings, and persecutions, and jailing, and all these things that he is facing\u2014he is saying all these things are light and momentary <em>compared<\/em> to the weight of glory.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>: In case somebody is wondering where that is found, that is 2 Corinthians, Chapter 4, and also the beginning part of Chapter 5. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour book, <em>Befriend<\/em>, actually presses us into friendships with people who we may have some dysfunctional relationships with. It may press us into relationship with people who believe differently than we do \/ who <em>behave<\/em> in a different way\u2014a 180 degrees different than how we think. I want to take one of those and I just want you to kind of walk us through kind of what you are up to here and challenging us to walk across the aisle and engage someone, who really isn\u2019t like me in all ways. They are made in the image of God\u2014they are a person of value and great worth\u2014but we find it difficult to move across the aisle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to take one that\u2019s a hot topic in our culture. That\u2019s someone who would believe that same-sex marriage or homosexuality is okay according to the Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow would you coach somebody to befriend a person, who clearly believes differently than you, Scott?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: I think it depends on why they believe differently. Context is everything with how we approach a friendship. I would say the first thing we need to do is look at our own hearts and ask ourselves\u2014to whatever degree we\u2019re worked up about this issue\u2014\u201cWhy are we so worked up about it?\u201d\u00a0 To whatever degree that we\u2019re <em>scared<\/em>, to ask ourselves: \u201cWhy are we so scared? Why are we so afraid?\u201d \/ to whatever degree we maybe disdain the person, ask ourselves, \u201cWhat justification do we have for disdaining somebody else who bears the image of God?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then we need to ask the question, \u201cHow did Jesus enter into those relationships?\u201d If we take a look in all of the Gospels, we see Jesus encountering those who might have been identified as sexual minorities, in sort of ancient Jewish culture\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014people who were <em>not<\/em> expressing their sexuality according to the historic Old and New Testament teaching. In no instance do we see Jesus scolding somebody, putting them in their place, shaming them. Instead we see him gently and compassionately engaging them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou take the woman caught in adultery in John, Chapter 8, for instance. He says to her: \u201cI do not condemn you. Now, go leave your life of sin.\u201d The order of that sentence is really important\u2014because in saying, \u201cI do not condemn you,\u201d <em>first<\/em>\u2014He establishes the environment and the context for the relationship. He is saying: \u201cMy looking at you\u2014as a person with dignity, and worth, and value\u2014is not conditional on whether or not you get onboard with My ethics. And <em>yet<\/em>, you need to get onboard with My ethics; because My ethics are for your health and for your flourishing.\u201d And so it is both\/and\u2014the Gospels talk about how Jesus comes, full of grace <em>and<\/em> full of truth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe need to think about the way that we come into these relationships, across the lines of even very deep theological differences. You know, the <em>baseline<\/em> is to love the person in front of you. We see this in the Apostle Paul in Acts 17, when he walks into sort of the Greek Areopagus\u2014all the secular thinkers of his day. He sees the idolatry all around him, and he starts with a compliment: \u201cI see that you\u2019re very religious. Yes; I see that you\u2019re seeking truth, and meaning, and beauty.\u201d So: \u201cLet\u2019s start there\u2014that\u2019s a good thing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And then he moves <em>toward<\/em> the questions and conversations about: \u201cWhat\u2019s true? Who is this unknown God that you\u2019re talking about? Let\u2019s talk about the God who can be known,\u201d\u2014but he starts with quoting their own poets from memory and their own philosophers from memory\u2014even complimenting them they\u2019re religious, even though their religion is deeply misguided. Bridge-building \/ trust-building is really the only thing that will gain a hearing in any kind of disagreement context.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>: And I want to go back to the woman in John 8. I just have written down five aspects of how Jesus loved her that really would work as a person is moving into a friendship with someone he or she didn\u2019t necessarily click with or didn\u2019t agree with. The first thing Jesus did was\u2014He protected her. And interestingly, He protected her from the religious community.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: Yes; he did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>: Interesting. Secondly, He connected with her by asking a question\u2014He asked her:\u201d Woman, where are your accusers? Has no one condemned you?\u201d He let her know He knew where she was and that she was in danger. Next, He forgave her, as you pointed out. Then He instructed her at what she should do; and then, finally\u2014it\u2019s not found in this passage but later on in the book of John\u2014He died for her sins. You have to wonder where <em>she<\/em> was when Jesus was hanging on a cross, saying, \u201cFather, forgive them for they know not what they do.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou just have to believe this woman had those words of Christ echoing in her mind. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s our assignment as we befriend people who don\u2019t agree with us \/ who may not be like us. You\u2019re exhorting them to follow Christ and to love them as Christ loved broken people as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>: And I\u2019m stopping to think about how evangelism gets done in our day among adults. It\u2019s less about rational argumentation and it\u2019s more about hospitality and friendship. You make that clear in the book you\u2019ve written, which is called <em>Befriend: Create Belonging in an Age of Judgment, Isolation, and Fear. <\/em>It\u2019s a book I hope our listeners will get a copy of and read\u2014maybe go through together with your small group.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the title of the book is <em>Befriend <\/em>by Scott Sauls. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can order a copy from us, online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you call to order at 1-800-FL- TODAY. Again, the website, FamilyLifeToday.com; or reach us by phone at 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d What you\u2019re suggesting is that we respond to others\u2014even others who aren\u2019t like us or are outside of our comfort zone\u2014the way Jesus responded to those who weren\u2019t\u2019 like Him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: When Jesus got invited to a tax collector party, he went. When he got invited to a Pharisee party, he went. He was never turning anybody down. He kept association with so many different kinds of people\u2014but by virtue of His association and by virtue of His willingness to offend the faithful\u2014in order to move toward those who did not know Him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s very instructive to us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>: Yes\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: We need to move in that direction and sort of get away from the \u201cus against them\u201d stuff.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>: \u2014and standing with the Pharisees, throwing stones at them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott<\/strong>: Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>: Good exhortation, Scott. Thanks for being with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>: And we\u2019ve got copies of your book, <em>Befriend<\/em>, available in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Folks can order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy of the book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, what you\u2019re describing\u2014us reaching out, and connecting, and befriending others\u2014for that to happen effectively, we have to make sure that our marriages and our families are strong and stable \/ that <em>friendship<\/em> is happening in the home before we are reaching out to others and befriending there. Our goal, here at FamilyLife, is to provide regular, practical biblical help and hope for couples who are facing challenges in their marriage relationship or who are wondering about how to raise their kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur goal is to effectively develop godly marriages and families, because we believe that godly marriages and families really can change the world, one home at a time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re grateful for those of you who we count as friends and co-laborers in this effort, those of you who help support this ministry regularly as Legacy Partners. And let me just say\u2014a Legacy Partner is somebody who makes a monthly donation to support <em>FamilyLife<\/em> and who prays for us regularly. We\u2019re grateful for the fact that we have Legacy Partners in most states where <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is heard. And we\u2019re hoping this spring that some of you, who are long-time listeners but have never become Legacy Partners, will decide to make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> a ministry that you want to support in 2017. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s easy to become a Legacy Partner. Just go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014the information is right there. Or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and say, \u201cI\u2019d like to become a Legacy Partner\u201d; or you can mail a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. And when you send your check, just indicate that you\u2019d like to become a Legacy Partner. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you make a first-time donation or simply a onetime gift this month, we\u2019d love to send you a chalkboard that Barbara Rainey has created as a part of the Ever Thine Home<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> collection. It\u2019s a heart-shaped chalkboard that is great for hanging in your home this time of year or all-year long\u2014a way to communicate with one another your love for each other in your family. That\u2019s our gift to you when you make a donation today in support of the ministry. And we just want to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d in advance, for whatever you\u2019re able to do in supporting the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk with a pastor from England who shares with us about his experience of recognizing that he was attracted to members of the same sex and having to figure out what he was going to do with God\u2019s call on his life and that same-sex attraction. You\u2019ll meet Sam Allberry tomorrow. And I hope you can join us for our conversation with him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/304362","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=304362"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=304362"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=304362"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=304362"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=304362"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=304362"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=304362"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}